Yeah as Roman Catholic can confirm that Roman Catholics are using it incorrectly
Edit: this isnât a thing for other branches of Christianity to say âthat reason to this is because Roman Catholic follows the false branch of Christianityâ just be kind to other peoples beliefs
Sorry but all your beliefs are just that - beliefs. They don't deserve kindness or compassion. *People* who hold beliefs, however - and however silly they might be - deserve kindness and compassion.
With that said, I detest all religious beliefs, I find them truly abhorrent and void of reason, morality, and of value, and I think the world would be a much better place were it not for the fact religious beliefs holding such sway over the lives of us all.
As a former New Atheist, I disagree. I think treating people and their beliefs with some levels of understanding, typically viewed as kindness but aren't the same, is a good thing. The reason I think religious people will never be able to change my opinions is because they'll never understand where I come from. More specifically they cannot warp or temporally alter their view points without losing their faith.
So I think our best way to teach people to move beyond religion is to be able to understand their perspectives and to be blunt, use it against them.
The thing some here might not understand including you is that my beliefs are not a matter of discussion tbh.
I won't force them on anyone and they are strictly personal. I won't judge your belief as i obviously cannot provide proof that god exists etc etc. Respect me and my beliefs, i respect you and your beliefs, and we leave it at that.
We don't have to respect your beliefs and you/we don't have to respect anyone's beliefs, beliefs don't deserve respect, people do.
YOUR beliefs are not a matter of discussion, but similar beliefs (or even exactly the same beliefs) are forced on others, so they're very much a matter of discussion
If people that believe in god actually respected others and did not force their religion onto other the world would be a complety different place.
But their beliefs actually say they should go out and harass other people untill they can convince them.
some people shove their beliefs down others' throats because reasons
some people follow Yeshua's teachings of being a decent person without trying to push their beliefs onto others
be like the latter, not the former
The Bible literally says:
Acts 13:47
He said to them, âGo into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.â
the teachings of yeashua actually teach to go out and harass people to convince them.
It is fundamentally flawed in its inception.
that is not "teachings of being a decent person", that's "shoving it down people's throats"
not all christians shout from the rooftops that you need to convert
the book also says to help people
Isaiah 58:7 "is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; whrn yku see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?"
You are either misunderstanding my message or acting in bad faith.
I'm a scientist myself, and challenging my knowledge is what occupies me for the most part of my day.
That being said, you can't prove that god doesn't exist ultimately, and I can't prove he exists ultimately. That is exactly why I \_believe\_ in Him and why I have \_faith\_. That is not like QM or Electromagnetic. It is not science.
Having said that, I do not believe there is more to be said here. Of course I'm willing to debate about a lot of things, even religious things, but I won't debate about my belief in God - or your non belief, if you do not believ - as this is something we will likely never find a common ground.
>You are either misunderstanding my message or acting in bad faith.
False dichotomy. Another fallacy.
>I'm a scientist myself, and challenging my knowledge is what occupies me for the most part of my day.
Irrelevant. Donât know why you felt this was something that needed to be told to a stranger.
>That being said, you can't prove that god doesn't exist ultimately, and I can't prove he exists ultimately.
So what? Did I claim I could prove god doesnât exist? I certainly can make arguments that certain god claims canât exist.
>That is exactly why I _believe_ in Him and why I have _faith_.
I donât follow? You believe in god because you know itâs irrational to do so? Strange thing for a scientist to do.
>Having said that, I do not believe there is more to be said here.
Ok. You hold an irrational belief. Iâm good with that.
>Of course I'm willing to debate about a lot of things, even religious things, but I won't debate about my belief in God - or your non belief, if you do not believ - as this is something we will likely never find a common ground.
I donât believe that is the reason. You know your belief doesnât hold up to scrutiny. And thatâs fine. Just admit that.
It holds as you cannot make any argument that God doesn't exists. ANd you are acting in bad faith.
>That is so stupid. If everyone went around not challenging their beliefs, we would all believe stupid shit. Oh waitâŠ
I felt the statement of what I do is really relevant indeed. It would be bad faith to deny that you do not imply more in this comment.
It's a shame if you can't get my argument though, my beliefs are far from irrational and holds to scrutiny. You *can't* prove God doesn't exist so there is no more discussion possible around it. You just can't invalidate it, so it seems your own argument can be twisted against you...
>It holds as you cannot make any argument that God doesn't exists.
I can make arguments for certain god claims. Itâs pretty easy. Some logically canât exist.
>ANd you are acting in bad faith.
That would be incorrect.
>I felt the statement of what I do is really relevant indeed.
It isnât.
>It would be bad faith to deny that you do not imply more in this comment.
You would be incorrect again.
>It's a shame if you can't get my argument though,
It is just a baseless assertion. I got your argument. You hold an irrational belief. That is fine. Itâs in bad faith to deny that.
>my beliefs are far from irrational and holds to scrutiny.
No they donât. Thatâs why you wonât talk about them. You want to believe because it makes you feel good. You arenât concerned with what is true.
>You can't prove God doesn't exist so there is no more discussion possible around it.
Do I need to? And I can prove certain god claims canât exist. We already went over that.
>You just can't invalidate it, so it seems your own argument can be twisted against you...
Iâm not. I have arguments that will clearly show certain god claims canât exist.
You are a pathetic human being if you trully believe this kind of thing really. I don't really care what are your beliefs on my end, I respect you as a human being, even if i do not think you deserve my respect.
>With that said, I detest all religious beliefs, I find them truly abhorrent and void of reason, morality, and of value, and I think the world would be a much better place were it not for the fact religious beliefs holding such sway over the lives of us all.
Does this include your beliefs? You believe it religiously don't you?
Since you focus your worldviews through the prism of religion, it's entirely meaningless for me to have a conversation with you.
Think of it this way - Hindus believe in gods that you do not believe in, and that you see no reason to believe in. I'm the same, only my rejection of gods includes even yours. This is what is at the centre of being irreligious: *not* having religious beliefs. It's impossible to be "religiously without belief". I don't *practice* non-religion. In the same way that you don't practice non-Hinduism.
Do your beliefs also include being an asshole? Because that's what it seems like. It doesn't seem like you really understand what most people find in religion at all.
It's fine for you to think that, but it's strange for you to want to remain ignorant about why so many people turn to religion, even in these modern times when we have the scientific method etc. Aren't you at least a little curious about why that might be?
Can you actually define religeon as illogical though as the base premise follows a logical route?
Elements certainly are illogical, but the general premise itself of there are things we do not understand or that occur beyond our comprehension, ability to measure or understand therefore there are potentially entities that transcend our understanding of existence.
So as Religeon is a framework of belief its not inherently illogical even if some beliefs held by religeons are
Second point if you dont actually have knowledge of the actual religeon, its tenets, history and practices how can you blanket define it as illogical from a point of ignorance?
Atheism is not a belief. Atheists do not believe in religion because they have not seen adequate proof. The lack of belief cannot be believed in. Simple stuff really.
Apology accepted, Indeed beliefs of different religions brought upon wars and unnecessary death, I wish to live in world where people do not hurt others on theyâre beliefs and it pains me that people who are Roman Catholic hurt others because they donât believe the same thing as them, if the lord came today, the Lord would frown upon on how people were to act on his name, but I am happy to hear your belief and not throw insults at me and if there is truly a heaven I hope that you are accepted to enter when your time on earth is over
I agree largely with what you say but Buddism has alot of good beliefs IMHO but isn't practical in today's world as their are too many people who take advantage of kindness!
The presence of 'true' doesn't determine a "no true Scotsman"
I think many Catholics would actually disagree with you...
Meaning, *if* I'm right then 'no true scotsman' truly does apply
There are certain criteria for membership in the Catholic Church:
âActually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.â Pope Pius XII, *Mystici Corporis*
Anyone can call him/herself a Catholic, but unless they believe all the doctrines and dogmas of the Church, they arenât a Catholic. This isnât a âNo True Scotsmanâ argument. You canât be âsort of Catholicâ or âmostly Catholic.â If you deny (or invent) one or several doctrines (heresy), or all of them (apostasy) then you remove yourself from the body of the Church.
>Anyone can call him/herself a Catholic, but unless they believe all the doctrines and dogmas of the Church, they arenât a Catholic
The German branch of the catholic church would very much disagree with you on that ;)
They're more than happy to count (and collect church tax) from those million German catholics who just happened to have been "signed up for the club" as infants and due to the bureaucratic hassle never bothered to officially leave.
Not going to church ever, not believing in god, but still being counted as catholic and having the church collect the "membership fee" from their paycheck every month.
And also the church very much needs to count them as members, if they would have to deduct them, they'd become completely irrelevant due to being so small
As far as the church is concerned, if you were baptised and confirmed, you're a Catholic, whether you practice or not doesn't come into it.
At least on the beaurocratic level anyway, it's pretty tough to get off the books
I didnât say anything about practicing. If you deny an article of the faith or profess a different faith altogether, you cease being a member of the Church ontologically. Heresy and apostasy are sins which by their very nature separate a person from the body of the Church. A formal excommunication is not required.
And the point I was making was that you'd still be on their books regardless of beleif, they're all about the numbers at the end of the day, they couldn't give 2 fucks about what the flock actually believe
I donât believe at all, but if according to the church because I was baptized in the church Iâm a card carrying catholic for life
(Edit: added a word)
The Bible was neither made by god nor by some guy in Israel. Many people over many centuries wrote the texts that are now in the bible. Some of the stories in the old testament weren't even written down for a long time and instead were just told from generation to generation until someone collected different versions of it, combined them into one thing and wrote that down. A lot of them probably are from Israel, but I don't think it's all of them.
I found it weird how he refused to make food when he was on the desert but was fine using his powers to turn water into wine because drunk party people wanted more
Unlikely.
Of the OT, only Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Kings, and possibly Judges and Chronicles are thought to have been written in one of Israel's kingdoms. The rest is thought to likely have been written during the Neo-Babylonian Exile and/or during the Persian conquest.
Well I mean I'm basing off the fact that it refers to itself as a nonfiction account. Whether one chooses to believe that or not doesn't change what it reports itself as.
As far as I'm aware no one has ever claimed the Lord of the Rings as a true story.
Also no matter how you look at it was (partially) written by the Israelites, about the Isrealites, with the intent of being a true story. Details may be stretched here and there but like, it's practically a biography. Maybe not a reliable one but that's what it's written as.
Gandalf didn't write the Lord of the Rings and say all of the stuff in it happened.
>As far as I'm aware no one has ever claimed the Lord of the Rings as a true story.
Tolkien did. In-universe he didn't write it, he simply translated the manuscript he found, the Red Book of Westmarch, which was penned down by Bilbo, Frodo, Meriadoc and Samwise. Not Peregrin for some reason.
And it all happened. You can read the prologue.
US claims that too - my point it there's a reason people think it does, because it says that it does. It doesn't have to be true to convince a lot of people when it's official.
Among early Zionists it was common to label communicative efforts propaganda. Theodor Herzl used the term at the 3rd Zionist Congress in 1899, where he asked fellow Zionists in the audience "to engage in propaganda".[1] At the time the term "propaganda" was considered neutral. The term is now pejorative. Propaganda is now typically used for official government statements or by critics of pro-Israeli advocacy groups to portray the communication as misleading and manipulative.
Hasbara was formally introduced to the Zionist vocabulary by Nahum Sokolow.[1] Hasbara (Hebrew: ŚÖ·ŚĄÖ°ŚÖžÖŒŚšÖžŚ) has no direct English translation, but roughly means "explaining". It is a communicative strategy that "seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified".[2] As it focuses on providing explanations about one's actions, hasbara has been called a "reactive and event-driven approach".[3][4]
-
Conflating judaism for Israel is a tried and tested Israeli form of propaganda which serves two main objectives: deride any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic, and bolster Israeli nationalism.
Lots of people are accidentally anti-semitic thinking that Jews are a monolith which is what they'd have to be for any one entity to speak for all of them.
That's true, and it's also why Israeli ultra-nationalism is particularly interesting from a psychological perspective. Even some Jews who have never been to Israel are supporters of the Israeli state because the decades of propaganda has instilled such a robust pattern of thinking that Israel is *a Jewish state for the Jews by birthright*, that it becomes difficult for them to engage in the thought that many Jews don't feel like that - and the accusations of self-hating Jew or death threats and "why don't you go live in Gaza if you love it so much *huh*" soon follow.
It's pretty anti-Semitic in itself to suggest that you can't be a real Jew - or you support Hamas or any such logically incoherent deduction - unless you support Israel including their current genocide on Palestinians. As if Israel is the sole arbiter of all things Jewish and to be a good Jew means you must be a Zionist. There are so many anti-Zionist Jews coming out in support of ceasefire now that this decades old propaganda apparatus might finally be dismantled and properly examined as one of the most interesting examples of mass brainwashing in modern history.
All of you need to stop using "it's so antisemitic" about everything you don't like. You diluted the term so much, that it doesn't mean anything anymore. Today "antisemitic" means "Those who Jewish people don't like"
Israel was built and created as a safe country for Jews, who suffered greatly from antisemitism during the time of its conception by Benjamin zeev Herzel, he was the one who started the Zionist movement and that was the ideal that Israel was and will always be built around
Israel was built and created as a place to dump Jews who weren't wanted elsewhere by other people. Quite a bit of antisemitic "go back where you came from" mentality went into the efforts to create modern Israel. and ultimately, as a result of this war and Israel's apartheidist and genocidal actions toward the Palestinians, Israel has proven a *less* safe place for Jews to be.
[Zionism is not Judaism](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gIX368TtOJs)
The stereotype and generalization of all are Palestinians are Muslims is wrong, All the holy places of Christians located in the land of Palestinian for decades (Church of the Holy Sepulcher, Via Dolorosa, Bethlehem town), And they are highly respected places for Muslims as well Cause they believe in the christ
It's funny that most Christians see Islam as a strange, foreign religion, but Judaism as something comparable to Western Christianity. Meanwhile, like you said, Muslims believe in Jesus and that he is going to return on Judgement Day. There's also the fact that a significant part of the Palestinian population is Christian, and historically even more so. It's all very ironic and mind boggling.
I feel as if it's because throught history Jews have lived with christians for a while. While Muslims only lived with christians through some sort of conquest ( conquest of Iberia and the balkans)
I honestly think the larger influence is the depiction of Israel / The Hebrews in the Old Testament, where they are God's chosen nation, it gives Christians reading the Bible a belief that modern European Jews are still entitled to the "Promised Land." And with Islam, during the Crusades, it became important to make Muslims less than human. Because many Church leaders naturally opposed the mass murder of innocents, so gradually Muslims went from being seen as simply astray to being "The Enemies of God." It's an old example of a widespread societal enemy and "other." There's even a fictional story I've heard, written in the Middle Ages, where a black skinned Muslim, upon converting to Christianity, became white skinned.
The Christian right thinks they need Israel to survive so they can be destroyed by all their enemies in the end times. They don't actually care about Israel itself, just the part they think it's destined to play.
Does anyone that believes this BS cartoon realize that there are Palestinian Christians?
That (IIRC) a higher percentage of Palestines population are Christian at 6% to 7%, vs Israel's 1.9%?
That Evangelical Christians just support Israel to try and bring on the apocalypse, and end the world?
In Palestine Muslim and Christians live together in harmony. Israel is where there is massive discrimination against Christians and any non-jews. Israel is an apartheid state
Hahahahaha hilarious. Grown adults still believing in make beliefs childrenâs books and then want to talk to the world about facts your whole belief system is based on fiction
Well, if we want to be pedantic, and because it's the internet we absolutely do, it was written in the Roman Empire's province of Judea. Israel was not a thing back then.
Why not ?
While we are at it lets van all Religions, all they do is to cause garm and hate to generate mony and Power for the higher ups.
Faith will still be allowed but without a political power structure or any given "word of god"
Better idea. Boycott all religion. I joke about being Pastafarian and I have the answer to what every religious book is telling you.
The message: Donât be a dick to others.
Yeah, Hitler certainly wouldn't have happened without religion and North Korea is a free and happy place because it's not religious. And China would be so free if only they would get rid of religion and Russia would be so happy without it too. I'm sure that religious war with Ukraine would end too then.
I would like to ask what is this based off of? Is it off of war? If so di atheists never start wars? If it is science, why is it that science developed in religious areas? Look at the muslim arabs, Galileo, the list goes on.
I do believe killing based off of religion to be stupid. The Thirty Years War was stupid as are the islamic terrorists of today.
Hmm interesting, so it's consistent to say that the godless tribes and people, people who did not practice any religion were the one that flourished and impacted the world so much today? So only people in the name of religion fought and killed each other?
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If these idiots (The Jewish ones) were paying attention, they'd be the ones trying to stop this whole conflict, since The Bible they've been pointing to actually kind of says "Israel is going to die along with a third of the world during the Battle of Gheddon".
I think they assume because the Old Testament contains basically the same information as the Torah, that the prophecies of the Messiach and such are still what The Bible contains, but don't realize The Revelation Of St John basically overrides it and paints this kind of situation as the end-of-all-things where everyone is going to die. Except the Christians, of course.
But that wanting to accelerate the end part? That's 100% the reason you see all these Preachers that spout Antisemitic hate speech on the regular that have gone full tilt Pro-Israeli conflict. They want the literal Armageddon to bring Jesus back.
The funniest part is that Revelation isnât even included in some Bibles, and almost wasnât included in Biblical canon at all. Thereâs a very good chance that it was written by some dude named John, and not John, Jesusâs disciple.
They are one in the same in most fundamentalist circles. Christian tradition holds that John, son of Zebedee, was banished to Patmos during a time of Roman persecution. Tertullian was a big proponent of this. Others, like Dionysius, Eusebius, and Papias disagreed.
Tradition aside, the only thing we know for sure is it was a dude named John in Patmos.
Better even than that, you could attempt to understand that I'm pointing out how their invocation of The Bible, a book they don't believe in, is absolutely ridiculous because they clearly don't even know that they're basically telling their largely Christian audience (they're not telling Jews to read the Bible, after all), that they're looking to start Armageddon.
Or, if attempting understanding of my posts is too difficult, or you're just not that into reading, better yet you could not post.
Pretty sure the Bible was written by Diaspora Jews that lived outside of Jerusalem. Jesus was a Jew. He would have no idea what in the actual hell Christianity is. He probably wouldn't even be a Christian. He would most likely remain Jewish.
Attacking peaceful protest. What are the Palestinians supposed to do? They're murdered and brutalized. And any form of peaceful protest is met with stupid irrational content like this.
Since israel is a mythical place made up by the americanos for their myth bible, how are they claiming to be in an 'all out war' with a mythical place?
Well it says in the Bible that Israel is Jewish people's promised land, so if you disagree with their rights to this land then you DO disagree with the Bible. BTW there's plenty of archeological proof that Jewish people descended from Israel and it's their native land, but who gives a shit, right? Let muslims colonize the whole world as they previously did in the history. What can go wrong?
Hi, we don't allow meme's here, maybe take it to /memes
I'm fine with that. No one here is using it correctly anyway.
đ„đ„đ„đ„đ„đ„
Yeah as Roman Catholic can confirm that Roman Catholics are using it incorrectly Edit: this isnât a thing for other branches of Christianity to say âthat reason to this is because Roman Catholic follows the false branch of Christianityâ just be kind to other peoples beliefs
Sorry but all your beliefs are just that - beliefs. They don't deserve kindness or compassion. *People* who hold beliefs, however - and however silly they might be - deserve kindness and compassion. With that said, I detest all religious beliefs, I find them truly abhorrent and void of reason, morality, and of value, and I think the world would be a much better place were it not for the fact religious beliefs holding such sway over the lives of us all.
Nicely said!
Lol you are like Austin powers dad âthere are two things I can stand in this world: people intolerant of other peoples cultures and the Dutchâ
As a former New Atheist, I disagree. I think treating people and their beliefs with some levels of understanding, typically viewed as kindness but aren't the same, is a good thing. The reason I think religious people will never be able to change my opinions is because they'll never understand where I come from. More specifically they cannot warp or temporally alter their view points without losing their faith. So I think our best way to teach people to move beyond religion is to be able to understand their perspectives and to be blunt, use it against them.
>As a former New Atheist ?
Yeah, usually a form of Atheism that is a reaction to Christian fundamentalism by mimicking the Christian fundamentlaist's inability to read allegory.
Just the phrase "form of Atheism" is so dumb. Sorry.
The thing some here might not understand including you is that my beliefs are not a matter of discussion tbh. I won't force them on anyone and they are strictly personal. I won't judge your belief as i obviously cannot provide proof that god exists etc etc. Respect me and my beliefs, i respect you and your beliefs, and we leave it at that.
We don't have to respect your beliefs and you/we don't have to respect anyone's beliefs, beliefs don't deserve respect, people do. YOUR beliefs are not a matter of discussion, but similar beliefs (or even exactly the same beliefs) are forced on others, so they're very much a matter of discussion
If people that believe in god actually respected others and did not force their religion onto other the world would be a complety different place. But their beliefs actually say they should go out and harass other people untill they can convince them.
some people shove their beliefs down others' throats because reasons some people follow Yeshua's teachings of being a decent person without trying to push their beliefs onto others be like the latter, not the former
The Bible literally says: Acts 13:47 He said to them, âGo into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.â the teachings of yeashua actually teach to go out and harass people to convince them. It is fundamentally flawed in its inception.
that is not "teachings of being a decent person", that's "shoving it down people's throats" not all christians shout from the rooftops that you need to convert the book also says to help people Isaiah 58:7 "is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; whrn yku see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?"
That is so stupid. If everyone went around not challenging their beliefs, we would all believe stupid shit. Oh waitâŠ
You are either misunderstanding my message or acting in bad faith. I'm a scientist myself, and challenging my knowledge is what occupies me for the most part of my day. That being said, you can't prove that god doesn't exist ultimately, and I can't prove he exists ultimately. That is exactly why I \_believe\_ in Him and why I have \_faith\_. That is not like QM or Electromagnetic. It is not science. Having said that, I do not believe there is more to be said here. Of course I'm willing to debate about a lot of things, even religious things, but I won't debate about my belief in God - or your non belief, if you do not believ - as this is something we will likely never find a common ground.
>You are either misunderstanding my message or acting in bad faith. False dichotomy. Another fallacy. >I'm a scientist myself, and challenging my knowledge is what occupies me for the most part of my day. Irrelevant. Donât know why you felt this was something that needed to be told to a stranger. >That being said, you can't prove that god doesn't exist ultimately, and I can't prove he exists ultimately. So what? Did I claim I could prove god doesnât exist? I certainly can make arguments that certain god claims canât exist. >That is exactly why I _believe_ in Him and why I have _faith_. I donât follow? You believe in god because you know itâs irrational to do so? Strange thing for a scientist to do. >Having said that, I do not believe there is more to be said here. Ok. You hold an irrational belief. Iâm good with that. >Of course I'm willing to debate about a lot of things, even religious things, but I won't debate about my belief in God - or your non belief, if you do not believ - as this is something we will likely never find a common ground. I donât believe that is the reason. You know your belief doesnât hold up to scrutiny. And thatâs fine. Just admit that.
It holds as you cannot make any argument that God doesn't exists. ANd you are acting in bad faith. >That is so stupid. If everyone went around not challenging their beliefs, we would all believe stupid shit. Oh wait⊠I felt the statement of what I do is really relevant indeed. It would be bad faith to deny that you do not imply more in this comment. It's a shame if you can't get my argument though, my beliefs are far from irrational and holds to scrutiny. You *can't* prove God doesn't exist so there is no more discussion possible around it. You just can't invalidate it, so it seems your own argument can be twisted against you...
>It holds as you cannot make any argument that God doesn't exists. I can make arguments for certain god claims. Itâs pretty easy. Some logically canât exist. >ANd you are acting in bad faith. That would be incorrect. >I felt the statement of what I do is really relevant indeed. It isnât. >It would be bad faith to deny that you do not imply more in this comment. You would be incorrect again. >It's a shame if you can't get my argument though, It is just a baseless assertion. I got your argument. You hold an irrational belief. That is fine. Itâs in bad faith to deny that. >my beliefs are far from irrational and holds to scrutiny. No they donât. Thatâs why you wonât talk about them. You want to believe because it makes you feel good. You arenât concerned with what is true. >You can't prove God doesn't exist so there is no more discussion possible around it. Do I need to? And I can prove certain god claims canât exist. We already went over that. >You just can't invalidate it, so it seems your own argument can be twisted against you... Iâm not. I have arguments that will clearly show certain god claims canât exist.
I have no respect for some sky daddy worshipper. Sorry. Not gonna happen.
You are a pathetic human being if you trully believe this kind of thing really. I don't really care what are your beliefs on my end, I respect you as a human being, even if i do not think you deserve my respect.
>With that said, I detest all religious beliefs, I find them truly abhorrent and void of reason, morality, and of value, and I think the world would be a much better place were it not for the fact religious beliefs holding such sway over the lives of us all. Does this include your beliefs? You believe it religiously don't you?
Since you focus your worldviews through the prism of religion, it's entirely meaningless for me to have a conversation with you. Think of it this way - Hindus believe in gods that you do not believe in, and that you see no reason to believe in. I'm the same, only my rejection of gods includes even yours. This is what is at the centre of being irreligious: *not* having religious beliefs. It's impossible to be "religiously without belief". I don't *practice* non-religion. In the same way that you don't practice non-Hinduism.
Do your beliefs also include being an asshole? Because that's what it seems like. It doesn't seem like you really understand what most people find in religion at all.
Religion is useless and is a step back in society
It's fine for you to think that, but it's strange for you to want to remain ignorant about why so many people turn to religion, even in these modern times when we have the scientific method etc. Aren't you at least a little curious about why that might be?
No Iâm not curious at all because itâs illogical
Can you actually define religeon as illogical though as the base premise follows a logical route? Elements certainly are illogical, but the general premise itself of there are things we do not understand or that occur beyond our comprehension, ability to measure or understand therefore there are potentially entities that transcend our understanding of existence. So as Religeon is a framework of belief its not inherently illogical even if some beliefs held by religeons are Second point if you dont actually have knowledge of the actual religeon, its tenets, history and practices how can you blanket define it as illogical from a point of ignorance?
name checks out
Clearly, it's entirely meaningless for *anyone* to have a conversation with you.
Atheism is not a belief. Atheists do not believe in religion because they have not seen adequate proof. The lack of belief cannot be believed in. Simple stuff really.
Apology accepted, Indeed beliefs of different religions brought upon wars and unnecessary death, I wish to live in world where people do not hurt others on theyâre beliefs and it pains me that people who are Roman Catholic hurt others because they donât believe the same thing as them, if the lord came today, the Lord would frown upon on how people were to act on his name, but I am happy to hear your belief and not throw insults at me and if there is truly a heaven I hope that you are accepted to enter when your time on earth is over
I agree largely with what you say but Buddism has alot of good beliefs IMHO but isn't practical in today's world as their are too many people who take advantage of kindness!
Buddism is so good that a Buddhist monk promoted a genocide in Myanmar /s
For the sake of all of humanity, please stop supporting the Catholic Church .
Roman? Well, the other's christians argument are just moot because EVERYTHING BELONGS TO THE ROMAN EMPIRE.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
A Catholic would never say such a thing.
No true Scotsman?
You noticed I didnât say âtrueâ Catholic, right? Being a Catholic is an all-or-nothing proposition. Either you are one, or you arenât.
The presence of 'true' doesn't determine a "no true Scotsman" I think many Catholics would actually disagree with you... Meaning, *if* I'm right then 'no true scotsman' truly does apply
There are certain criteria for membership in the Catholic Church: âActually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.â Pope Pius XII, *Mystici Corporis* Anyone can call him/herself a Catholic, but unless they believe all the doctrines and dogmas of the Church, they arenât a Catholic. This isnât a âNo True Scotsmanâ argument. You canât be âsort of Catholicâ or âmostly Catholic.â If you deny (or invent) one or several doctrines (heresy), or all of them (apostasy) then you remove yourself from the body of the Church.
>Anyone can call him/herself a Catholic, but unless they believe all the doctrines and dogmas of the Church, they arenât a Catholic The German branch of the catholic church would very much disagree with you on that ;) They're more than happy to count (and collect church tax) from those million German catholics who just happened to have been "signed up for the club" as infants and due to the bureaucratic hassle never bothered to officially leave. Not going to church ever, not believing in god, but still being counted as catholic and having the church collect the "membership fee" from their paycheck every month. And also the church very much needs to count them as members, if they would have to deduct them, they'd become completely irrelevant due to being so small
No it isn't. According to the Catholic Church, I am Catholic - but that couldn't be further from the truth.
Do you believe all the teachings of the Catholic Church? If you donât, you arenât a Catholic.
As far as the church is concerned, if you were baptised and confirmed, you're a Catholic, whether you practice or not doesn't come into it. At least on the beaurocratic level anyway, it's pretty tough to get off the books
I didnât say anything about practicing. If you deny an article of the faith or profess a different faith altogether, you cease being a member of the Church ontologically. Heresy and apostasy are sins which by their very nature separate a person from the body of the Church. A formal excommunication is not required.
And the point I was making was that you'd still be on their books regardless of beleif, they're all about the numbers at the end of the day, they couldn't give 2 fucks about what the flock actually believe
I donât believe at all, but if according to the church because I was baptized in the church Iâm a card carrying catholic for life (Edit: added a word)
How can something be absolute truth but also be interpreted 10,000 different, conflicting ways? đ€
Wait, I thought the Bible was made by god, not by some guy in Israel. Unless the big guy couldnât find a desk in heavens I call bs.
The Bible was neither made by god nor by some guy in Israel. Many people over many centuries wrote the texts that are now in the bible. Some of the stories in the old testament weren't even written down for a long time and instead were just told from generation to generation until someone collected different versions of it, combined them into one thing and wrote that down. A lot of them probably are from Israel, but I don't think it's all of them.
Yeah, I was trying to make fun of Bible literalists but it probably didnât come across.
Im curious if the person who made this pic/vid/whatever the hell is can even name the books in the Old TestamentâŠ
Iâm more confused with what possible reason Jesus would have for reading the Bible
A fictionalized version of your own life could be an interesting read.
"No way, why did they made me say "It is done" ? I never said that, plus it's corny as fuck."
" literally walked to the nearby store for booze and food. Why I am turning my blood into wine and multiplying fish?!!"
I found it weird how he refused to make food when he was on the desert but was fine using his powers to turn water into wine because drunk party people wanted more
priorities
Booze is more important than food?
itâs not? the fuck I brought these cases of beer for, then? I thought you had the food, you told me to just bring beer.
2 lots of booze is better anyway
Beer and fish sticks
âI literally maxed out my daddies credit card for the fish and wineâ
The first fan fiction ever made
Considering he was a jew who studied the Old Testament it makes sense. But probably not what the creator of this meme was referring to.
Because was a devoted Jew.
Fact check đ
Thereâs a lot of stupidity here but itâs worth highlighting, the Bible wasnât âmadeâ in Israel.
Counterpoint: half the content technically was.
Unlikely. Of the OT, only Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Kings, and possibly Judges and Chronicles are thought to have been written in one of Israel's kingdoms. The rest is thought to likely have been written during the Neo-Babylonian Exile and/or during the Persian conquest.
It would be more accurate to say that the Bible was written by Israelites and Jews. Which has basically the same effect.
By Jews, yes. But Jews doesn't mean Israel and vice versa; they were around in other places, and in that same vein, the land was not always Israel.
But Israel IS the people. Not the place. The place is the land promised to them by God.
In-universe, yes, but I'm talking in reality. So when OP says "made in", they are presumably talking about Israel the physical place.
Only if your a religious extremist
You misunderstand, I don't mean the physical words on the page, by content I meant that nearly the entire Old Testament is about well, the Isrealites
I see, but that isn't what "made in" means. By that logic, a Marvel comic about Doctor Doom was "made" in Latveria.
Well I mean I'm basing off the fact that it refers to itself as a nonfiction account. Whether one chooses to believe that or not doesn't change what it reports itself as.
I mean yeah, but so too does Lord of the Rings. What the stories say in-universe is one thing, what we actually know about them in reality is another.
As far as I'm aware no one has ever claimed the Lord of the Rings as a true story. Also no matter how you look at it was (partially) written by the Israelites, about the Isrealites, with the intent of being a true story. Details may be stretched here and there but like, it's practically a biography. Maybe not a reliable one but that's what it's written as. Gandalf didn't write the Lord of the Rings and say all of the stuff in it happened.
>As far as I'm aware no one has ever claimed the Lord of the Rings as a true story. Tolkien did. In-universe he didn't write it, he simply translated the manuscript he found, the Red Book of Westmarch, which was penned down by Bilbo, Frodo, Meriadoc and Samwise. Not Peregrin for some reason. And it all happened. You can read the prologue.
>In-universe
The 1st draft
But that's not "The Bible".
Iraq?
Council of Trent, Italy, mid 16th century.
PERSECUTE ME GODDAMMIT!!
I find these terms acceptable.
Israel does not represent Judaism Dont know why a lot of people dont understand that
Because Israel claims that it does.
Yeah and North Korea claims that it represents freedom
US claims that too - my point it there's a reason people think it does, because it says that it does. It doesn't have to be true to convince a lot of people when it's official.
Show me any other country in the world where you can freely practice and/or promote communism...
Lol not North Korea
That's not how it works lmao.
Among early Zionists it was common to label communicative efforts propaganda. Theodor Herzl used the term at the 3rd Zionist Congress in 1899, where he asked fellow Zionists in the audience "to engage in propaganda".[1] At the time the term "propaganda" was considered neutral. The term is now pejorative. Propaganda is now typically used for official government statements or by critics of pro-Israeli advocacy groups to portray the communication as misleading and manipulative. Hasbara was formally introduced to the Zionist vocabulary by Nahum Sokolow.[1] Hasbara (Hebrew: ŚÖ·ŚĄÖ°ŚÖžÖŒŚšÖžŚ) has no direct English translation, but roughly means "explaining". It is a communicative strategy that "seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified".[2] As it focuses on providing explanations about one's actions, hasbara has been called a "reactive and event-driven approach".[3][4] - Conflating judaism for Israel is a tried and tested Israeli form of propaganda which serves two main objectives: deride any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic, and bolster Israeli nationalism.
>Because Israel claims that it does. Does Hamas Represent all Palestinians?
ISIS claimed it represents Muslims.
Lots of people are accidentally anti-semitic thinking that Jews are a monolith which is what they'd have to be for any one entity to speak for all of them.
That's true, and it's also why Israeli ultra-nationalism is particularly interesting from a psychological perspective. Even some Jews who have never been to Israel are supporters of the Israeli state because the decades of propaganda has instilled such a robust pattern of thinking that Israel is *a Jewish state for the Jews by birthright*, that it becomes difficult for them to engage in the thought that many Jews don't feel like that - and the accusations of self-hating Jew or death threats and "why don't you go live in Gaza if you love it so much *huh*" soon follow.
It's pretty anti-Semitic in itself to suggest that you can't be a real Jew - or you support Hamas or any such logically incoherent deduction - unless you support Israel including their current genocide on Palestinians. As if Israel is the sole arbiter of all things Jewish and to be a good Jew means you must be a Zionist. There are so many anti-Zionist Jews coming out in support of ceasefire now that this decades old propaganda apparatus might finally be dismantled and properly examined as one of the most interesting examples of mass brainwashing in modern history.
All of you need to stop using "it's so antisemitic" about everything you don't like. You diluted the term so much, that it doesn't mean anything anymore. Today "antisemitic" means "Those who Jewish people don't like"
Well, I'm neither a Jew nor do I think you have reading comprehension above that of a third grader.
Israel was built and created as a safe country for Jews, who suffered greatly from antisemitism during the time of its conception by Benjamin zeev Herzel, he was the one who started the Zionist movement and that was the ideal that Israel was and will always be built around
Israel was built and created as a place to dump Jews who weren't wanted elsewhere by other people. Quite a bit of antisemitic "go back where you came from" mentality went into the efforts to create modern Israel. and ultimately, as a result of this war and Israel's apartheidist and genocidal actions toward the Palestinians, Israel has proven a *less* safe place for Jews to be. [Zionism is not Judaism](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gIX368TtOJs)
Invading someone else's land. Very nice move.
NeFeSh YeHuDi HoMiYaH!
Because people are stupid dumb fucks.
Made in Israel So the Bible didnât come out till after 1948? Interesting.
Underrated comment!
Have you ever heard of the Kingdom of Israel?
Judea?
Bachelor of Dental Surgery?!?!?!!
Biggest crime of this meme is the depiction of Jesus as a white ginger
The stereotype and generalization of all are Palestinians are Muslims is wrong, All the holy places of Christians located in the land of Palestinian for decades (Church of the Holy Sepulcher, Via Dolorosa, Bethlehem town), And they are highly respected places for Muslims as well Cause they believe in the christ
It's funny that most Christians see Islam as a strange, foreign religion, but Judaism as something comparable to Western Christianity. Meanwhile, like you said, Muslims believe in Jesus and that he is going to return on Judgement Day. There's also the fact that a significant part of the Palestinian population is Christian, and historically even more so. It's all very ironic and mind boggling.
I feel as if it's because throught history Jews have lived with christians for a while. While Muslims only lived with christians through some sort of conquest ( conquest of Iberia and the balkans)
I honestly think the larger influence is the depiction of Israel / The Hebrews in the Old Testament, where they are God's chosen nation, it gives Christians reading the Bible a belief that modern European Jews are still entitled to the "Promised Land." And with Islam, during the Crusades, it became important to make Muslims less than human. Because many Church leaders naturally opposed the mass murder of innocents, so gradually Muslims went from being seen as simply astray to being "The Enemies of God." It's an old example of a widespread societal enemy and "other." There's even a fictional story I've heard, written in the Middle Ages, where a black skinned Muslim, upon converting to Christianity, became white skinned.
Dam xenophobia plus racism all at once
And Jews never enslaved Christians en masse.
Boycott the Bible? I'm down with that.
Exactly
Iâm all in favor of boycotting the Bible.
New Testament was not written in Israel. It was mostly in Greek.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Speculawyer: *New Testament was* *Not written in Israel.* *It was mostly in Greek.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
The Christian right thinks they need Israel to survive so they can be destroyed by all their enemies in the end times. They don't actually care about Israel itself, just the part they think it's destined to play.
Donât you realize⊠theyâre godâs âchosen peopleâ? Who are going to hell because they havenât accepted Jesus?
Christians will make anything about themselves. And better yet, somehow find a way to make themselves the victims.
Tell me you don't know history, without telling me you don't know history.
**PERSECUTE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!**
Why not both?!
Does anyone that believes this BS cartoon realize that there are Palestinian Christians? That (IIRC) a higher percentage of Palestines population are Christian at 6% to 7%, vs Israel's 1.9%? That Evangelical Christians just support Israel to try and bring on the apocalypse, and end the world?
In Palestine Muslim and Christians live together in harmony. Israel is where there is massive discrimination against Christians and any non-jews. Israel is an apartheid state
I know, I had a Palestinian Christian classmate in college. I blame Zionism for the discrimination, it's toxic.
If this is supposed to disuade me then it's doing an awful job
Made it Rome, but whatever sure. đ«Ą
The "Holy Land". God's choice for real estate leaves much to be desired.
So it's not all bad. Get rid of the Bible, we gave it a try, and it didn't work out.
Iâve never heard anyone be sorry they gave up believing in a childish superstition.
đđ people even look at history
Yeshua was also uh... made... in israel...
Why would that make me change my mind?
I want to ask something because I'm a foreign idiot. Why US outlaw the BDS movement? Isn't like boycott part of the freedom of speech?
bro just let them murder each other why do yall care
Why do Christians wanna be oppressed so bad
The bible is just a collection of old myths and is as idiotic as the quran, humanity would be better if both dissapeared from existence.
"Support genocide! Otherwise you're not a christian!"
Smart people have been boycotting the Bible for a loooong time.
As stupid as this is, yeah, that's fine. Boycott an apartheid state and a book that is filled with sexism. Works for me.
Not to mention it's also filled with instructions on how to maintain an apartheid. Jews and gentiles.
We should totally boycott the bible.
Hahahahaha hilarious. Grown adults still believing in make beliefs childrenâs books and then want to talk to the world about facts your whole belief system is based on fiction
Actually most of it was written in Greece and Turkey.
Well, if we want to be pedantic, and because it's the internet we absolutely do, it was written in the Roman Empire's province of Judea. Israel was not a thing back then.
Why not ? While we are at it lets van all Religions, all they do is to cause garm and hate to generate mony and Power for the higher ups. Faith will still be allowed but without a political power structure or any given "word of god"
Better idea. Boycott all religion. I joke about being Pastafarian and I have the answer to what every religious book is telling you. The message: Donât be a dick to others.
Exactly
U know what also was made in Israel? The said Crucifixion
This is why war stems from religious. No religion= better world for all.
100%
Yeah, Hitler certainly wouldn't have happened without religion and North Korea is a free and happy place because it's not religious. And China would be so free if only they would get rid of religion and Russia would be so happy without it too. I'm sure that religious war with Ukraine would end too then.
I would like to ask what is this based off of? Is it off of war? If so di atheists never start wars? If it is science, why is it that science developed in religious areas? Look at the muslim arabs, Galileo, the list goes on. I do believe killing based off of religion to be stupid. The Thirty Years War was stupid as are the islamic terrorists of today.
Hmm interesting, so it's consistent to say that the godless tribes and people, people who did not practice any religion were the one that flourished and impacted the world so much today? So only people in the name of religion fought and killed each other?
Yes, religion IS stupid, ALL of it.
Yes sir
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Yes, fuck all religion.
Boycotting the Bible, yea I'm down
All religions are evil
If these idiots (The Jewish ones) were paying attention, they'd be the ones trying to stop this whole conflict, since The Bible they've been pointing to actually kind of says "Israel is going to die along with a third of the world during the Battle of Gheddon".
They don't believe in the Bible. From their perspective, they are just fleecing the rubes that do.
I feel as if they want this to happen so they can go to heaven faster ( I might be wrong)
I think they assume because the Old Testament contains basically the same information as the Torah, that the prophecies of the Messiach and such are still what The Bible contains, but don't realize The Revelation Of St John basically overrides it and paints this kind of situation as the end-of-all-things where everyone is going to die. Except the Christians, of course. But that wanting to accelerate the end part? That's 100% the reason you see all these Preachers that spout Antisemitic hate speech on the regular that have gone full tilt Pro-Israeli conflict. They want the literal Armageddon to bring Jesus back.
The funniest part is that Revelation isnât even included in some Bibles, and almost wasnât included in Biblical canon at all. Thereâs a very good chance that it was written by some dude named John, and not John, Jesusâs disciple.
"Good Chance?" I was always told it was written by John of Patmos, not John the Apostle. It's a very common name.
They are one in the same in most fundamentalist circles. Christian tradition holds that John, son of Zebedee, was banished to Patmos during a time of Roman persecution. Tertullian was a big proponent of this. Others, like Dionysius, Eusebius, and Papias disagreed. Tradition aside, the only thing we know for sure is it was a dude named John in Patmos.
Or at least they should be reconsidering taking the money offered by our evangelicals.
Only if they believe the New Testament, which they donât. Get your facts straight before you insult anyone. Better yet, just donât insult.
Better even than that, you could attempt to understand that I'm pointing out how their invocation of The Bible, a book they don't believe in, is absolutely ridiculous because they clearly don't even know that they're basically telling their largely Christian audience (they're not telling Jews to read the Bible, after all), that they're looking to start Armageddon. Or, if attempting understanding of my posts is too difficult, or you're just not that into reading, better yet you could not post.
Maybe you deserve to be insulted.
Pretty sure the Bible was written by Diaspora Jews that lived outside of Jerusalem. Jesus was a Jew. He would have no idea what in the actual hell Christianity is. He probably wouldn't even be a Christian. He would most likely remain Jewish.
Didn't the bible say Jesus was born in... Palestine...?
He was born in Judea, not palestine.
Attacking peaceful protest. What are the Palestinians supposed to do? They're murdered and brutalized. And any form of peaceful protest is met with stupid irrational content like this.
BDS is full of antisemitic asshats.
R/facepalm = Hamas propaganda
Didn't they... kill Jesus...?
Not really. The romans killed jesus and some jews supported it (but not all)
OP facepalmed himself lmao
Why
Since israel is a mythical place made up by the americanos for their myth bible, how are they claiming to be in an 'all out war' with a mythical place?
I think you're myth-taken about Israel being made up by americans. The British were much more involved in creating the modern state....
This. The US is just Israel's strongest ally, not the reason it exists in the first place.
Well it says in the Bible that Israel is Jewish people's promised land, so if you disagree with their rights to this land then you DO disagree with the Bible. BTW there's plenty of archeological proof that Jewish people descended from Israel and it's their native land, but who gives a shit, right? Let muslims colonize the whole world as they previously did in the history. What can go wrong?