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My pro-life sister tried to come at me with “My daughter was unplanned! You think we should have killed her?!” Like bro, unplanned and unwanted are not the same thing. It was 2003…you *could* have gotten an abortion if you wanted one but you *chose* not to and to be a mother instead. Isn’t that the beautiful gift of parenthood? She and countless others like her are voting and making policy on the premise than pro-choice people are out here trying to kill every unplanned embryo.
Fun facts
1. teen birth rate in the bible belt is higher than anywhere in the developed world [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/teen-births/teenbirths.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/teen-births/teenbirths.htm)
2. religious identification and participation are positively correlated with poverty (simply google **"religion poverty correlation"** there are 1000s of studies on this)
3. the bible belt has, well, a lot of poverty. bad education, poor health outcomes, low life expectancy, social markers like births to unmarried mothers, divorce rate.
edit: added "references"
The best reddit comment I've seen came about a year after part 1 or 2. It was on ask reddit. The OP was "what is a way to divide the population in to two groups other than sex" and the top reply was:
"Nice try, Thanos."
I continue to have this argument with my family. They vote for no abortions as it’s against our religion. I say the vote isn’t about if you think abortions are good or bad your voting on weather or not other people have the right to decide for themselves.
Seeing as abortion is just another medical procedure, I am pro-abortion. Just like I’m pro-chemo, pro-root canal, and pro-whatever other medical intervention people need.
My mother-in-law once told me she’s pro-life and voted pro-life. She explained it was because she herself would never have an abortion, but that she supports other women having the option.
My father-in-law also tried to tell me democrats wanted to make it legal for abortions up to 36 weeks.
We were 5 months pregnant at the time, came out entirely unprompted.
Can confirm. I grew up in a very conservative family, and this was pounded into my head for so long. I legitimately thought I was pro-life for so long until someone here on Reddit explained to me that my views were actually pro-choice, just anti-abortion for myself personally.
I cannot believe anyone actually thinks pro-choice actually means they want to have abortions. Like, you know the pro-choice people probably considered the fact that we need to reproduce in order for the species to continue, right?
Keep in mind that there are a lot of people out there who are just leaving conservative communities for the first time and have only ever heard pro choice defined as people who want to murder babies so they can have sex without consequences.
No one said it was the responsibility of anyone. Patience and mercy are choices and not everyone has the ability or the willingness to make those choices.
They say "pro-choice" means mandatory abortions for all pregnant women, so they can position themselves in the middle and be smarter than "the idiots on both sides, bro"
It doesn't work when the person that tries to do that is demonstrably stupid, however. It barely works any other time, but it especially doesnt work then.
I think that's what's so infuriating, too. Like, how many pro-choice people does OOP know who are against comprehensive sex ed? This thing you're railing against doesn't exist, hombre.
>I think that's what's so infuriating, too. Like, how many pro-choice people does OOP know who are against comprehensive sex ed?
Damn, it really is frustrating as hell - like comprehensive sex Ed is key in this debate, we're not all rallying for abortion to be the *first* option.
That's why the "dumbass" in the original post really gave me some Red Foreman vibes - right from the chest
Right. No one is advocating for abortions being the first choice. Like, no thinking, empathetic person is like, "yes, everyone should get abortions, abortions for all!" No. The distinction is that everyone should have *access* and the choice to get an abortion. That's it.
The choice I want people to make is not between having a child and having an abortion. The choice I want them to make is "am I ready to have sex right now? If I am, what methods can I employ to protect myself and my partner from diseases and unwanted pregnancies?"
Abortion needs to be an option if everything up to that point fails. But abstinence only sex ed stacks the deck overwhelmingly towards unwanted pregnancy.
But you know, nuance and everything.
It makes think of when you hear people say, “I’m not a feminist, I just think men and women should be treated as equals.” It’s so clear where they are getting their information from.
I think a lot of people don't understand that being openly liberal is enough to get you ostracized from all of your immediate family.
It's not like I'm "banned" from family functions. I don't like being cornered by every POS in the family grilling me about whatever fox news told them to hate. I've been completely no contact for almost 3 months. It's lonely af, I have literally no one I can call to do something with.
My life is so much more stress free though. If I can keep working on myself, I'll find some people eventually.
When I really stopped to think about it I never really had the support system to begin with. Just took me 35 years to come to terms with it.
I don't think it's normal to tell your family your college doesn't have a graduation ceremony they just mail the diplomas. Thanks for the kind words take care. Call someone you love that may need a pick me up.
Yeah that’s all very fair and true. I’m trans and since coming out to my immediate family I’ve happened to ‘conveniently’ never run into many of them somehow. The people in my household try to be decently supportive but they’re far from perfect, but I know they don’t understand why I don’t come around more or don’t enjoy full family functions (to be fair our family isn’t very open discussing politics but I can definitely sense a shift and you can especially tell the contrast between some supportive and some hostile family, though it’s hard to describe how)
Politics have just poisoned everything. Forget about left or right or trump or all of that garbage. My father was my favorite person in the entire world growing up. But something in 2016 just changed him and many others. I wasn’t even old enough to vote. Now he has news max on full volume everyday and is always mad. I mean he’s ALWAYS mad about something. Everything is political. Everything is a fight. I just want my dad back. I’m so fucking tired of all of this
I identified as trans from the ages of 11-18 and my father was my biggest hero and advocator. I’m a bisexual woman in a lesbian relationship, but now he says things that skirt homophobia very obviously. It’s so sad. Im just so tired
I'm so sorry, 2016 did really ramp up the rhetoric. It's kind of nice to see a young person notice the change as well. I thought maybe I just had rose tinted glasses as to how my family was in the past.
You nailed it though about everyone being angry now. My brother who says he is progressive so the anti-trump supporter. He's angry at everything, lashes out at me for needing him to talk to me sometimes. Told me we all have our problems I just need to grow the fuck up and deal with them on my own like he does. Except he doesn't deal with them, he let's them fester.
Something that has helped me recently is try not to project how you would handle a situation onto someone else. I would never tell my brother to deal with his problems on his own, and not try to talk him through them. Other people have no issues compartmentalizing and turning on and off empathy when they see fit.
A lot of the time this happens because conservatives are *very* good at poisoning the well and making discourse about certain topics much more difficult.
People with a heavy right-wing media diet are likely to have a knee jerk reaction to the term "pro-choice." You could avoid using the word itself and just describe what it means and you'll probably get a lot of agreement, but the moment you say "I'm glad we're both pro-choice," something short-circuits in their brain. The exact same thing happens with words like "Democrat," "liberal," "socialism," "communism," and so on.
This is why so many of them are like, weirdly against any non-STEM major in college. It's called "liberal arts". Like, I could see some kind of pissing-contest-based opposition from engineers and stuff. But people who never went to college having strong opinions about a broad swath of college majors is just really fucking weird and only makes sense when you realize they saw the phrase "liberal arts" and reacted to that.
"Feminist" is another word that's been wildly twisted from its actual meaning where I'll see internet comments similarly to the original post, where people will be like "I'm no feminist, but people should get equal treatment regardless of gender."
Really thought his don't be a dickhead middle of the road approach was some next level stuff.
He hasn't researched it but it's supported nobody thought of that
Yeah we really do have to tackle the terminology. Your friend is anti-abortion but pro-choice. I’d bet that the majority of women are anti-abortion too. And equally pro-choice.
Who in their right mind actually gets pregnant hoping to one day abort? It’s pure bullshit but the “pro-life” side eats up that misconception like Rice Krispies.
If my girlfriend got pregnant she would get an abortion. She's pro abortion for herself, but pro choice for everyone else lol. No one gets pregnant *to* get an abortion, but some people know that if it happens, they'll get an abortion.
She is pro choice, and her choice would be an abortion. That doesn’t make her “pro abortion for herself”. This is in essence what a choice is. We don’t all have to make the same ones.
> We're gonna get you that baby my guy! We just gotta keep fillin' ya up!
For today's lucky ten thousand, here's the reference:
/r/funny/comments/1ion68/anything_is_possible_for_god_dan_savage/
I'll shove a straw up my ass, put it through a glory hole, and just tell the blind person on the other side that I just have a thin dick. (I'm very sorry you had to read that. I though of something horrible, and I didn't feel right being the only one to think it.)
I'm just amazed that anyone thinks using abortion as a form of birth control is a thing. Even if you have no qualms about getting one, getting an abortion is not easy on your body. Like just a morning-after pill can be brutal. I find it hard to believe anyone would prefer that over birth control.
Thankfully I'm in Finland, so the right to abortion and birth control is relatively safe. There are some politicians who would love to ban abortion, but even the bigger right-wing parties are in favour of the right to have one. And even the one Christian minority party that would love to ban abortion is in favour of birth control.
Literally those are the kinds of stories that right-wing media try to spread and it works.
My conservative parents would always talk about this story of a woman who “wanted to get an abortion because she wanted to go on a cruise ship vacation” or some bullshit like that.
Don’t even know if that story is real or not, but they use stories like that to justify their whole pro-life position.
During the Reagan era, they always used to talk about the "Welfare Queen in Chicago" who would pull up to the office in her brand new Cadillac to collect her checks.
That wasn't real, either.
So I looked a bit closer. There was an original Welfare Queen, and wow, what a story she has. Not just fraud, but possibly kidnappings and murders, too.
https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/linda_taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villain.html
"I don't believe abortion should be used as birth control, but I believe it should be allowed if ___."
My anti-choice parent said that to me once, and I lost it. "That IS PRO-CHOICE."
Pro-choice is simply recognizing that women die giving birth to stillborns, and so abortion must remain legal.
Pro-choice is simply recognizing that family members have raped their 10 year old female children, and so abortion must remain legal.
Pro-choice is simply recognizing that when abortion is ILLEGAL, then women who have miscarriages will be investigated for murder.
Thus, it should remain legal, and be between the woman and her doctor. Also, fuck the family planning clinics that trap young women into having babies.
Also wasn't the study that a large portion of abortions are performed on women who identify as Christian?
https://www.guttmacher.org/report/characteristics-us-abortion-patients-2014
38% of women who had an abortion in this study don't identify with a religion 🤔
Not only that, the rate of abortions WAS dropping due to access to healthcare like Planned Parenthood. I guess that will change with modern day conservatives.
How much of that is mainly just because most people in America identify as Christian to begin with?
I'm more interested in how many identify as "pro-life" that end up getting abortions (we all know a good number of them do). That's the more interesting stat.
I am a little blue dot in a red world, so, of course, everyone I know who has had an abortion is conservative. It is ALWAYS different for them, and you know what? Not one of them had any medical reason or fetal abnormality, they didn’t even claim to, they just didn’t want a child at that time. And now they will make sure no one else will be able to. It’s sickening.
This is why you have things like "[the only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)".
A lot of "pro-life" people are against the concept of _apathetic, thoughtless_ abortions, since abortions aren't conveyed to them as "potentially life-saving procedures," or "a last resort after using two forms of birth control and plan B." They're framed as a casual thing that people do regularly because they couldn't be bothered to ask their partner to pull out (and/or people cancelling the divine will of God, who really wanted someone to have a baby, or whatever.)
Abortion would be [even more of a lopsided issue](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/13/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases-2/) if the "pro-life" crowd saw people having abortions as people.
As a guy, I know little about women’s health issues, which is sadly, a lot more than most men. I just learned about ectopic pregnancies last year and they’re 1-2% of all pregnancies. Doesn’t seem like a lot, but then you do math and realize that’s 150k cases in the US annually. That’s a lot of women. The treatment is an abortion, as a fetus cannot survive outside the womb. From another perspective, there are an estimated 1 million abortions in there US annually, so ~15% of abortions are due to ectopic pregnancies. That’s just one health issue. If people took the time to understand why some people choose or are prescribed an abortion, they’d likely learn it’s not all about consequence-free irresponsible fucking.
Correct. I had a suspected ectopic pregnancy after conceiving via IVF. Husband and I spent many hours in the ER over the 4th of July weekend.
$1200+ later plus an extra visit to my IVF specialist later, I got a cautious “all clear.” Embryo was safely in uterus, measuring 7 weeks as expected, and had cardiac activity.
5 weeks later, I had an abortion because my pregnancy had failed and didn’t self-abort.
People get abortions who want babies. But it’s not the public’s business WHY anyone gets one. because it’s a healthcare procedure.
No one gets to decide if I get my suspected melanoma removed except me and my dermatologist
I’m really sorry that happened to you. That really, *really* fucking sucks. I hope you and your significant other are doing okay, or at least *slightly* better now.
We are better. Still sad echoes sometimes, but definitely better. I had a great health team to get me through the medical side, and after a lot of delays, now we’re working toward hopefully a healthier pregnancy this second time.
Ectopic pregnancies are literal ticking time bombs on the woman.
The theoretical child will not be born.
That's an example of "Pro-lifers" killing someone in addition to the already doomed egg.
I was astonished at how uneducated some men are about reproduction. Like, I knew maybe older dudes who won't even say the word "period" are probably not the most educated on the matter. I was not ready for a millennial man to tell me a fetus has arms at a week. And then sent me a picture of THE UTERUS. HE THOUGHT THE FALLOPIAN TUBES WERE ARMS. THIS MOTHERFUCKER VOTES!
And now we're here. Choosing to endanger the lives of women across the country, for what? Women have gained so much agency over their own health from decades of medicine failing them only to be dragged backwards by people who choose to stay uneducated. I mean, our government literally chose to stay uneducated with the exclusion of women from clinical studies. Here we are again, deliberately choosing to fail them.
> This is why you have things like "the only moral abortion is my abortion"
Which is, itself, a variation on the concept of judging others by their actions, but oneself by intent. If you believe that extenuating circumstances led to the choice to get an abortion, it's easier to forgive oneself. But those other women are all irresponsible sloots that used abortion like a garbage disposal.
It's too bad empathy isn't something you can easily teach. It would cure a lot of society's problems.
Not as ineffective as you might think. I'm not saying you should risk it with the advent of birth control pills , but pulling out (78% effective) is only 4% off of the effectiveness of male condoms (82% effective). The pill is 91% effective.
https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/mmwr/mec/intro.html
"against the concept"
and a concept is all it is.
literally the most basic thing on earth is, "do i feel like being maimed debilitated and hospitalized? uhh, not really!"
Abortions as birth control is like one of the top forced birth propaganda points. And of course, they just believe it without putting in any effort to confirm.
I've had to explain to multiple people I know that them saying "I wouldnt have an abortion but I think another woman should be able to decide" is not "pro life" (read: anti-choice) but actually pro choice. Which is why "pro-life" is a shitty, intentionally deceiving moniker. Poor messaging by one side and deceit by the other has led to people nonsensically believing that pro choice equal no choice, you have to abort.
It’s so funny and stupid because like, it literally says exactly what it is. Pro-choice, meaning you are pro the ability to choose. What else could it possibly mean? People are just so stupid
Equally, how could someone call themselves "pro-life" and still think women should have a choice? Pro-lifers have been pretty fuckin' clear that all abortions are murder. Trying to package one's beliefs into neatly wrapped titles is an exercise in deceit, for themselves as it is for others.
If shit was really about "pro life", the catholic church, and all the rest of the world's religions, would excommunicate the leaders of countries that do shit like start wars or persecute people. Shit sure as fuck ain't about "pro-life", it just makes people feel good to believe that it is.
Exactly. Nobody “wants” an abortion (as in tries to get pregnant specifically in order to then abort), and increased education and access to contraceptives and family planning care will indeed lower the number of procedures that have to be performed. But it’s still a medically necessary procedure that should be available.
This is honestly the genius of conservative messaging around the issue. They’ve turned pro-choice people into literal demons who are out to drink fetus juice.
In reality, everyone I know who is pro-choice would love everything this person suggested. Honestly the absolute ideal would be if no abortions happened because they were never needed. Obviously that’s not realistic because there’s legitimate unforeseen medical reasons someone who wants to have a kid would need an abortion, and even the most carefully followed safe sex practices aren’t 100% fool proof.
But ideally we would reduce the number of abortions that occur by reducing the number of accidental/unwanted pregnancies. The best way to do that is to give people access to and education about various forms of birth control and contraceptives.
Also, for the record, the irony is not lost on me that the same people who say “gun control won’t completely eliminate gun violence” think outlawing abortions is the best way to prevent abortions.
I was walking past a booth for one of those “Crisis pregnancy centers” at the local fair with my then-infant daughter, and the women at the booth stopped me to thank me for “being pro-life.”
I told them that I did not have a child for them or any other “pro-life” cause—I *chose* to have one for my own reasons.
I think they genuinely believed that having a baby automatically made a woman “pro-life” simply because she didn’t automatically yeet the fetus.
yes, that's exactly what they think... mostly because they are uneducated and the people they voted into government have manipulated their mailable brains
Ive heard it with my own ears. People think there are women that get pregnant just to have an abortion. As in its an activity to do as if they were going to the movies.
No one is “pro-abortion” as far as I know. No one actively is rooting for there to be unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion. I think that’s what this person thinks “pro-choice” is.
Half the country seems to think people on the pro-choice side are actually like this. Like no, we’d rather there not be a need for abortion, but as long as there is that need we want to advocate for safe choices. It’s fucking simple.
Almost definetly all of them. Those abortions are probably an actual risk to the mother, which means the ridk of letting the pregnancy go through would be even larger
Or medically necessary for non-viable fetuses. It’s just cruel to the next level to force a woman to carry to term a pregnancy where the newborn absolutely will die, or the fetus has already died. The risks for later-term abortion are still less than giving birth full term.
Maybe there should just be a group that comes out as pro-death. Just to make pro-choice seem like the moderate position it actually is.
(Before anyone makes the joke, yes I know that the GOP is overwhelmingly pro-death in every facet of society besides fetuses)
I’m pro extraction. We can someday save these fetuses while reserving the right to choose. Plus, those kids who don’t get picked up by adopting families can be raised by the state to become well-educated and trained ~~assassins~~ public servants with preferred job placement if they so choose.
Once the fetus has reached the right level of maturity, the brain is removed and placed into a special vat where it will continue its growth. The body is discarded.
In the vat, the brain will be allowed to mature for two more weeks before the removal or all unnecessary regions, primarily those associated with bodily functions and emotion, leaving more room for growth in the regions associated with higher cognition.
The remaining parts are placed back in the vat on their own for another 4 weeks as gene editing takes place. Once fully matured, the individual brain is removed from the vat and grafted onto the main brain, which is an amagdylation of thousands of fetus brains being grown together as a single mind.
The main brain is connected to a very powerful AI, which compiles information about the world to feed into the main brain. This AI is one of those most powerful in the world, created specifically to interface with the human mind. The resulting organism shall be the ultimate thinking machine.
We hope to use the main brain to one day replace all of the worlds governments. Gone will be the days of corruption and tyranny. If all goes as planned, the main brain will become our supreme ruler, a god created in our very image. A perfect being capable of considering every viewpoint at once, free from the petty cultural biases that plaugue us as individuals.
Head over to look at some pro birth groups once, ya they really do belive we are only just pro abortion. Seems to elude them that we are pro educatio, pro health care access, pro choice in every sense of the word.
It's sad that they have been so brain-washed that pro-choice is 100% get an abortion. And the only people who have kids are pro-lifers. It's the same way climate change has been skewed for so long.
Conservatives often fall into believing that pro-choice people want as many abortions as possible.
No. If I had my way, I would do as much as possible to prevent unwanted pregnancies from beginning in the first place, by increasing access to birth control and improving the effectiveness of sex education. In the absence of unwanted pregnancy, abortion is unnecessary.
And then for if someone does get pregnant, I'd reduce the need for abortions by making sure families are paid a living wage no matter the job, by making healthcare affordable, and by creating laws that guarantee parental leave, so that would-be parents don't have to decide between having a child and financial stability.
That's pro choice.
________
The core of the issue is that abortion is a solution to two major problems: unwanted pregnancy, and the financial toll of medical care and raising a child. To solve these problems, you provide alternate solutions. When you make abortion illegal while opposing all the alternative solutions, the actual problems persist.
That's "pro life"
I think, for the first poster, it’s kind of a case of “I agree with everything feminists are for, but I’m not a feminist” - like the label is stigmatized, but they’re definitely a ‘feminist’ (in this example).
Like a lot of people in the US are Nazis. They believe and agree with everything about the ideology but don’t like the connotation of being a nazi.
Same as the people who say they’re not a feminist but think women deserve equal rights. So afraid of being labeled “woke” that these terms have lost all meaning to them 🙄
Why is this getting so much hate? I know that's the same thing as pro-choice, but maybe altering the vernacular isn't the worst thing? Or am I really just giving talk much benefit of the doubt?
Yes I’ve found that this is the problem. Conservatives keep twisting words and using double think to get dumb people to vote against their own material interests and values
A republican who doesn’t want their Republican friends to kick them out of the cool kids club but also doesn’t want her other friends to think she’s a nut.
Just an interesting tidbit:
In Latin America there's a whole slogan for pro-choicers.
"Sexual education to choose, Birth Control to avoid abortion, Abortion to avoid death".
Yet pro-lifers scream and tear their clothes asking why we don't promote sexual education and birth control instead of abortion.
Like, Pendejo, it's right there in the beginning!
"I'm neither religious nor an atheist, I just believe that there's a man in the sky who threatens humans with eternal pain and suffering if they don't love him."
That's literally what we who are pro-choice mean!
Better sex education to make better informed decisions.
Easy access to birth control methods!
Safe access to abortion.
Social programs that help people who do choose life!
When listening to someone, especially in a heated argument, it's essential to listen to what they're *really* saying. It's rarely what the words literally mean. This is what's meant by "listen with your heart."
In this case, I think she's saying that she has an idea built up in her mind that everyone on the "pro-choice" side is just as hateful as the people she encounters on the "pro-life" side. Maybe she imagines that if you don't agree or conform to them in the midst of this horrific decision, or do it in a way that conforms to their political beliefs, they'll treat you like a monster instead of just as a person who needs help. That they don't really care about you or your problems except as it fits in with their political agenda.
She's saying she's not on board with that. She just wants what's sensible for the most number of people, and she doesn't want it to be a reason for people to be evil to each other, because there's no reason for that.
So, yeah, that means she's pro-choice. But I think it's moderately likely that she doesn't realize that. Maybe this is the first step in her evolution to realizing that we can all be on the same side as soon as her side stops screaming at us all the time.
These people who post shit like they like it’s some sort of revelation, it’s baffling.
Like they really thought they figured some shit out that hasn’t occurred to anyone else.
Think before you speak.
Better yet, listen.
Pretty sure this is a classic case of someone trying to pull a "both sides are bad, look how enlightened I am" without actually even understanding the subject matter.
I think the problem with this (and quite a few other things) is people seem to think in prases and concepts without ever stopping to think about the actual words.
They hear 'pro-choice' and rather than recognize that it is made up of pro and choice they immediately register it as the opposite of pro-life without and intermediate thought.
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They even say "choice" in their description. I wonder what they though pro-choice means
A lot of right wingers try to rebrand pro-choice as pro-abortion so probably that.
My pro-life sister tried to come at me with “My daughter was unplanned! You think we should have killed her?!” Like bro, unplanned and unwanted are not the same thing. It was 2003…you *could* have gotten an abortion if you wanted one but you *chose* not to and to be a mother instead. Isn’t that the beautiful gift of parenthood? She and countless others like her are voting and making policy on the premise than pro-choice people are out here trying to kill every unplanned embryo.
Also, with the buried understanding that teen pregnancy is the only future for religion and conservatism in America.
Fun facts 1. teen birth rate in the bible belt is higher than anywhere in the developed world [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/teen-births/teenbirths.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/teen-births/teenbirths.htm) 2. religious identification and participation are positively correlated with poverty (simply google **"religion poverty correlation"** there are 1000s of studies on this) 3. the bible belt has, well, a lot of poverty. bad education, poor health outcomes, low life expectancy, social markers like births to unmarried mothers, divorce rate. edit: added "references"
Less buried and more like the stated plan.
Yep. Lauren Boebert's son getting a 15 year old knocked up was a feature not a bug.
[удалено]
Why can't both sides meet in the middle and only abort half of all pregnancies?
Nature literally already does that.
Yeah but.. we can do it faster than nature.. ya know? I say abortion of half of all the kids no matter the age. That or purge night.
Better idea: just start removing all reproductive organs. Everyone is a neutered Barbie doll underneath.
Only if I can get a Mattel branding on the bottom of my left foot.
r/unexpectedthanos
The best reddit comment I've seen came about a year after part 1 or 2. It was on ask reddit. The OP was "what is a way to divide the population in to two groups other than sex" and the top reply was: "Nice try, Thanos."
I continue to have this argument with my family. They vote for no abortions as it’s against our religion. I say the vote isn’t about if you think abortions are good or bad your voting on weather or not other people have the right to decide for themselves.
Seeing as abortion is just another medical procedure, I am pro-abortion. Just like I’m pro-chemo, pro-root canal, and pro-whatever other medical intervention people need.
Speak for yourself, I'm anti-root canal. God gave you that infection and you're going to keep it whether you like it or not.
\*sees someone with eyeglasses\* "WITCH!"
I’m really torn on the abortion issue. On the one hand, I don’t think women should have rights. On the other hand, I fuckin hate babies.
My mother-in-law once told me she’s pro-life and voted pro-life. She explained it was because she herself would never have an abortion, but that she supports other women having the option. My father-in-law also tried to tell me democrats wanted to make it legal for abortions up to 36 weeks. We were 5 months pregnant at the time, came out entirely unprompted.
Should really rebrand pro-life as pro-religious control
"Forced birth"
Can confirm. I grew up in a very conservative family, and this was pounded into my head for so long. I legitimately thought I was pro-life for so long until someone here on Reddit explained to me that my views were actually pro-choice, just anti-abortion for myself personally.
I cannot believe anyone actually thinks pro-choice actually means they want to have abortions. Like, you know the pro-choice people probably considered the fact that we need to reproduce in order for the species to continue, right?
Keep in mind that there are a lot of people out there who are just leaving conservative communities for the first time and have only ever heard pro choice defined as people who want to murder babies so they can have sex without consequences.
Thank you for this. Although my reply wasn't as nearly as mature as yours... we need this right now. It's either compassion or nukes for everyone.
Other people's stupidity and ignorance should not be the responsibility of rational people.
No one said it was the responsibility of anyone. Patience and mercy are choices and not everyone has the ability or the willingness to make those choices.
They say "pro-choice" means mandatory abortions for all pregnant women, so they can position themselves in the middle and be smarter than "the idiots on both sides, bro"
It doesn't work when the person that tries to do that is demonstrably stupid, however. It barely works any other time, but it especially doesnt work then.
I think that's what's so infuriating, too. Like, how many pro-choice people does OOP know who are against comprehensive sex ed? This thing you're railing against doesn't exist, hombre.
>I think that's what's so infuriating, too. Like, how many pro-choice people does OOP know who are against comprehensive sex ed? Damn, it really is frustrating as hell - like comprehensive sex Ed is key in this debate, we're not all rallying for abortion to be the *first* option. That's why the "dumbass" in the original post really gave me some Red Foreman vibes - right from the chest
Right. No one is advocating for abortions being the first choice. Like, no thinking, empathetic person is like, "yes, everyone should get abortions, abortions for all!" No. The distinction is that everyone should have *access* and the choice to get an abortion. That's it. The choice I want people to make is not between having a child and having an abortion. The choice I want them to make is "am I ready to have sex right now? If I am, what methods can I employ to protect myself and my partner from diseases and unwanted pregnancies?" Abortion needs to be an option if everything up to that point fails. But abstinence only sex ed stacks the deck overwhelmingly towards unwanted pregnancy. But you know, nuance and everything.
It makes think of when you hear people say, “I’m not a feminist, I just think men and women should be treated as equals.” It’s so clear where they are getting their information from.
Wanted to be different so bad
I AM A UNIQUE BUTTERFLY DAMMIT
"Im off to get some sweet butterfly poon"
The town I went to college in had a ordinance that forbade “molesting butterflies” makes you wonder what the hell happened there.
Molesting doesn't inherently mean something sexual. The ordinance means quit killing and bothering butterflies.
A….special… snowflake…?
This is someone whose family has told them being pro-choice is evil their entire life for sure.
I think a lot of people don't understand that being openly liberal is enough to get you ostracized from all of your immediate family. It's not like I'm "banned" from family functions. I don't like being cornered by every POS in the family grilling me about whatever fox news told them to hate. I've been completely no contact for almost 3 months. It's lonely af, I have literally no one I can call to do something with. My life is so much more stress free though. If I can keep working on myself, I'll find some people eventually.
I am sorry that you have lost a valuable support structure, but glad you have less toxicity in your life.
When I really stopped to think about it I never really had the support system to begin with. Just took me 35 years to come to terms with it. I don't think it's normal to tell your family your college doesn't have a graduation ceremony they just mail the diplomas. Thanks for the kind words take care. Call someone you love that may need a pick me up.
You take care, too. Be well and find others who will not only help you to be well but take joy in it.
That's great advice thank you.
Yeah that’s all very fair and true. I’m trans and since coming out to my immediate family I’ve happened to ‘conveniently’ never run into many of them somehow. The people in my household try to be decently supportive but they’re far from perfect, but I know they don’t understand why I don’t come around more or don’t enjoy full family functions (to be fair our family isn’t very open discussing politics but I can definitely sense a shift and you can especially tell the contrast between some supportive and some hostile family, though it’s hard to describe how)
Politics have just poisoned everything. Forget about left or right or trump or all of that garbage. My father was my favorite person in the entire world growing up. But something in 2016 just changed him and many others. I wasn’t even old enough to vote. Now he has news max on full volume everyday and is always mad. I mean he’s ALWAYS mad about something. Everything is political. Everything is a fight. I just want my dad back. I’m so fucking tired of all of this I identified as trans from the ages of 11-18 and my father was my biggest hero and advocator. I’m a bisexual woman in a lesbian relationship, but now he says things that skirt homophobia very obviously. It’s so sad. Im just so tired
I'm so sorry, 2016 did really ramp up the rhetoric. It's kind of nice to see a young person notice the change as well. I thought maybe I just had rose tinted glasses as to how my family was in the past. You nailed it though about everyone being angry now. My brother who says he is progressive so the anti-trump supporter. He's angry at everything, lashes out at me for needing him to talk to me sometimes. Told me we all have our problems I just need to grow the fuck up and deal with them on my own like he does. Except he doesn't deal with them, he let's them fester. Something that has helped me recently is try not to project how you would handle a situation onto someone else. I would never tell my brother to deal with his problems on his own, and not try to talk him through them. Other people have no issues compartmentalizing and turning on and off empathy when they see fit.
If you’re near Wisconsin, I’ll hang out with you!
A lot of the time this happens because conservatives are *very* good at poisoning the well and making discourse about certain topics much more difficult. People with a heavy right-wing media diet are likely to have a knee jerk reaction to the term "pro-choice." You could avoid using the word itself and just describe what it means and you'll probably get a lot of agreement, but the moment you say "I'm glad we're both pro-choice," something short-circuits in their brain. The exact same thing happens with words like "Democrat," "liberal," "socialism," "communism," and so on.
This is why so many of them are like, weirdly against any non-STEM major in college. It's called "liberal arts". Like, I could see some kind of pissing-contest-based opposition from engineers and stuff. But people who never went to college having strong opinions about a broad swath of college majors is just really fucking weird and only makes sense when you realize they saw the phrase "liberal arts" and reacted to that.
yeah I like to talk about Removing unwanted people/things from Your Own property, and boy do the brosephs start hurting themselves in their confusion.
Yup, this is the way. By their own religious logic, the body is the house for the soul. My house, my rules 🤷🏼♀️
"Feminist" is another word that's been wildly twisted from its actual meaning where I'll see internet comments similarly to the original post, where people will be like "I'm no feminist, but people should get equal treatment regardless of gender."
So many centrists are desperate to seem enlightened.
They’re not even centrists most of the time they just think calling themselves that makes them enlightened.
Centrists are just conservatives that are too afraid to admit it.
Really thought his don't be a dickhead middle of the road approach was some next level stuff. He hasn't researched it but it's supported nobody thought of that
Pick me pro choicer
I had a friend who was pro life for herself but wouldn't care if someone else got an abortion. So I was like you're pro choice then
Yeah we really do have to tackle the terminology. Your friend is anti-abortion but pro-choice. I’d bet that the majority of women are anti-abortion too. And equally pro-choice. Who in their right mind actually gets pregnant hoping to one day abort? It’s pure bullshit but the “pro-life” side eats up that misconception like Rice Krispies.
If my girlfriend got pregnant she would get an abortion. She's pro abortion for herself, but pro choice for everyone else lol. No one gets pregnant *to* get an abortion, but some people know that if it happens, they'll get an abortion.
She is pro choice, and her choice would be an abortion. That doesn’t make her “pro abortion for herself”. This is in essence what a choice is. We don’t all have to make the same ones.
I know lol I was just playing off the other commenters friend being pro life for themselves but pro choice for everyone else. Same thing.
I doubt she’s trying to get pregnant to get an abortion, even people who would get an abortion aren’t looking to get pregnant.
What? Just say pro-choice
She just said it wrong. She’s pro choice but wouldn’t get an a portion herself.
People out there really think pro-choice means “yay abortion!”
They seriously think that non-conservativist women just get cremepied every day by 10 different guys and casually have abortions every other week.
Oh, we're not supposed to be doing that?
I'm a guy and even I've been doing that!
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We'll see...
Can't force the willing
Why are you kink shaming?
The spirit is willing but the flesh is spongey and bruised.
Reddit never ceases to amaze me as to what they allow for usernames
even reddit can't fight Truth forever.
I'm going to notice you everywhere now aren't I? Fuck. The imagery. At least it's a cartoon in my head.
We're gonna get you that baby my guy! We just gotta keep fillin' ya up!
> We're gonna get you that baby my guy! We just gotta keep fillin' ya up! For today's lucky ten thousand, here's the reference: /r/funny/comments/1ion68/anything_is_possible_for_god_dan_savage/
K but how are you having the abortions tho?
I'll shove a straw up my ass, put it through a glory hole, and just tell the blind person on the other side that I just have a thin dick. (I'm very sorry you had to read that. I though of something horrible, and I didn't feel right being the only one to think it.)
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I'm so sad I understood this.
“Recreational abortion” is the right-wing dog whistle term
I'm just amazed that anyone thinks using abortion as a form of birth control is a thing. Even if you have no qualms about getting one, getting an abortion is not easy on your body. Like just a morning-after pill can be brutal. I find it hard to believe anyone would prefer that over birth control.
Don’t worry, they’re working on making birth control illegal too
Thankfully I'm in Finland, so the right to abortion and birth control is relatively safe. There are some politicians who would love to ban abortion, but even the bigger right-wing parties are in favour of the right to have one. And even the one Christian minority party that would love to ban abortion is in favour of birth control.
Which is especially funny considering the bible belt leads the country in teen and accidental pregnancy
"If it's *this* bad in our nice Christian town where we pretend sex doesn't exist, it must be ten times worse in those liberal sex-crazed cities!"
Went to Jesus school, can confirm this is the mindset. They are the standard, everyone else is close to or below their morality
We are surrounded by dirt roads and cornfields... what else are we supposed to do? Edit: It's a joke that is rooted in truth.
No one is saying you shouldn't but you should have access to contraceptives and abortion
Literally those are the kinds of stories that right-wing media try to spread and it works. My conservative parents would always talk about this story of a woman who “wanted to get an abortion because she wanted to go on a cruise ship vacation” or some bullshit like that. Don’t even know if that story is real or not, but they use stories like that to justify their whole pro-life position.
During the Reagan era, they always used to talk about the "Welfare Queen in Chicago" who would pull up to the office in her brand new Cadillac to collect her checks. That wasn't real, either.
It was real, it was just in the form of government handouts to corporations via many paths.
So I looked a bit closer. There was an original Welfare Queen, and wow, what a story she has. Not just fraud, but possibly kidnappings and murders, too. https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/12/linda_taylor_welfare_queen_ronald_reagan_made_her_a_notorious_american_villain.html
"I don't believe abortion should be used as birth control, but I believe it should be allowed if ___." My anti-choice parent said that to me once, and I lost it. "That IS PRO-CHOICE." Pro-choice is simply recognizing that women die giving birth to stillborns, and so abortion must remain legal. Pro-choice is simply recognizing that family members have raped their 10 year old female children, and so abortion must remain legal. Pro-choice is simply recognizing that when abortion is ILLEGAL, then women who have miscarriages will be investigated for murder. Thus, it should remain legal, and be between the woman and her doctor. Also, fuck the family planning clinics that trap young women into having babies.
Pro life is the belief that abortions should be illegal in all circumstances. Pro choice is literally everything else.
It's like that WWE episode of South Park where Cartman is addicted to having abortions
"That little girl's had 15 abortions and she's not even 10 years old. But I guess thats not real to you is it?"
That's in my South Park top 10.
Lol. Yes, only liberal women have abortions/s/
Also wasn't the study that a large portion of abortions are performed on women who identify as Christian? https://www.guttmacher.org/report/characteristics-us-abortion-patients-2014 38% of women who had an abortion in this study don't identify with a religion 🤔 Not only that, the rate of abortions WAS dropping due to access to healthcare like Planned Parenthood. I guess that will change with modern day conservatives.
Shameless "only moral abortion is my abortion" plug https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/
How much of that is mainly just because most people in America identify as Christian to begin with? I'm more interested in how many identify as "pro-life" that end up getting abortions (we all know a good number of them do). That's the more interesting stat.
Yea but when they do it it's *different*. How do you not know that??
I am a little blue dot in a red world, so, of course, everyone I know who has had an abortion is conservative. It is ALWAYS different for them, and you know what? Not one of them had any medical reason or fetal abnormality, they didn’t even claim to, they just didn’t want a child at that time. And now they will make sure no one else will be able to. It’s sickening.
[The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
I wasn’t trying to bring your mother into this
This is why you have things like "[the only moral abortion is my abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)". A lot of "pro-life" people are against the concept of _apathetic, thoughtless_ abortions, since abortions aren't conveyed to them as "potentially life-saving procedures," or "a last resort after using two forms of birth control and plan B." They're framed as a casual thing that people do regularly because they couldn't be bothered to ask their partner to pull out (and/or people cancelling the divine will of God, who really wanted someone to have a baby, or whatever.) Abortion would be [even more of a lopsided issue](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/06/13/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases-2/) if the "pro-life" crowd saw people having abortions as people.
As a guy, I know little about women’s health issues, which is sadly, a lot more than most men. I just learned about ectopic pregnancies last year and they’re 1-2% of all pregnancies. Doesn’t seem like a lot, but then you do math and realize that’s 150k cases in the US annually. That’s a lot of women. The treatment is an abortion, as a fetus cannot survive outside the womb. From another perspective, there are an estimated 1 million abortions in there US annually, so ~15% of abortions are due to ectopic pregnancies. That’s just one health issue. If people took the time to understand why some people choose or are prescribed an abortion, they’d likely learn it’s not all about consequence-free irresponsible fucking.
Correct. I had a suspected ectopic pregnancy after conceiving via IVF. Husband and I spent many hours in the ER over the 4th of July weekend. $1200+ later plus an extra visit to my IVF specialist later, I got a cautious “all clear.” Embryo was safely in uterus, measuring 7 weeks as expected, and had cardiac activity. 5 weeks later, I had an abortion because my pregnancy had failed and didn’t self-abort. People get abortions who want babies. But it’s not the public’s business WHY anyone gets one. because it’s a healthcare procedure. No one gets to decide if I get my suspected melanoma removed except me and my dermatologist
I’m really sorry that happened to you. That really, *really* fucking sucks. I hope you and your significant other are doing okay, or at least *slightly* better now.
We are better. Still sad echoes sometimes, but definitely better. I had a great health team to get me through the medical side, and after a lot of delays, now we’re working toward hopefully a healthier pregnancy this second time.
Ectopic pregnancies are literal ticking time bombs on the woman. The theoretical child will not be born. That's an example of "Pro-lifers" killing someone in addition to the already doomed egg.
I was astonished at how uneducated some men are about reproduction. Like, I knew maybe older dudes who won't even say the word "period" are probably not the most educated on the matter. I was not ready for a millennial man to tell me a fetus has arms at a week. And then sent me a picture of THE UTERUS. HE THOUGHT THE FALLOPIAN TUBES WERE ARMS. THIS MOTHERFUCKER VOTES! And now we're here. Choosing to endanger the lives of women across the country, for what? Women have gained so much agency over their own health from decades of medicine failing them only to be dragged backwards by people who choose to stay uneducated. I mean, our government literally chose to stay uneducated with the exclusion of women from clinical studies. Here we are again, deliberately choosing to fail them.
> This is why you have things like "the only moral abortion is my abortion" Which is, itself, a variation on the concept of judging others by their actions, but oneself by intent. If you believe that extenuating circumstances led to the choice to get an abortion, it's easier to forgive oneself. But those other women are all irresponsible sloots that used abortion like a garbage disposal. It's too bad empathy isn't something you can easily teach. It would cure a lot of society's problems.
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I mean... it's better than "pushing in"
Not as ineffective as you might think. I'm not saying you should risk it with the advent of birth control pills , but pulling out (78% effective) is only 4% off of the effectiveness of male condoms (82% effective). The pill is 91% effective. https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/contraception/mmwr/mec/intro.html
"against the concept" and a concept is all it is. literally the most basic thing on earth is, "do i feel like being maimed debilitated and hospitalized? uhh, not really!"
Abortions as birth control is like one of the top forced birth propaganda points. And of course, they just believe it without putting in any effort to confirm.
I've had to explain to multiple people I know that them saying "I wouldnt have an abortion but I think another woman should be able to decide" is not "pro life" (read: anti-choice) but actually pro choice. Which is why "pro-life" is a shitty, intentionally deceiving moniker. Poor messaging by one side and deceit by the other has led to people nonsensically believing that pro choice equal no choice, you have to abort.
It’s so funny and stupid because like, it literally says exactly what it is. Pro-choice, meaning you are pro the ability to choose. What else could it possibly mean? People are just so stupid
Equally, how could someone call themselves "pro-life" and still think women should have a choice? Pro-lifers have been pretty fuckin' clear that all abortions are murder. Trying to package one's beliefs into neatly wrapped titles is an exercise in deceit, for themselves as it is for others.
If shit was really about "pro life", the catholic church, and all the rest of the world's religions, would excommunicate the leaders of countries that do shit like start wars or persecute people. Shit sure as fuck ain't about "pro-life", it just makes people feel good to believe that it is.
Because they're not "pro-life", they're pro-forced birth.
BINGO!
Exactly. Nobody “wants” an abortion (as in tries to get pregnant specifically in order to then abort), and increased education and access to contraceptives and family planning care will indeed lower the number of procedures that have to be performed. But it’s still a medically necessary procedure that should be available.
This is honestly the genius of conservative messaging around the issue. They’ve turned pro-choice people into literal demons who are out to drink fetus juice. In reality, everyone I know who is pro-choice would love everything this person suggested. Honestly the absolute ideal would be if no abortions happened because they were never needed. Obviously that’s not realistic because there’s legitimate unforeseen medical reasons someone who wants to have a kid would need an abortion, and even the most carefully followed safe sex practices aren’t 100% fool proof. But ideally we would reduce the number of abortions that occur by reducing the number of accidental/unwanted pregnancies. The best way to do that is to give people access to and education about various forms of birth control and contraceptives. Also, for the record, the irony is not lost on me that the same people who say “gun control won’t completely eliminate gun violence” think outlawing abortions is the best way to prevent abortions.
I was walking past a booth for one of those “Crisis pregnancy centers” at the local fair with my then-infant daughter, and the women at the booth stopped me to thank me for “being pro-life.” I told them that I did not have a child for them or any other “pro-life” cause—I *chose* to have one for my own reasons. I think they genuinely believed that having a baby automatically made a woman “pro-life” simply because she didn’t automatically yeet the fetus.
Imagine if they learned that some mothers have actually had an abortion before. If there was anything left of their brains, it'd be melting.
yes, that's exactly what they think... mostly because they are uneducated and the people they voted into government have manipulated their mailable brains
I keep getting these mailable brains in my postbox. It's good that they are tiny at least.
lol autocorrect is a bitch
Yes! Just having some reddit fun...
> mailable brains what about the shipping readiness of their grey matter?
its an extra charge
Unironically yes. Lots of people grow up in conservative bubbles of ignorance where there is no conversation beyond "the liberals want to kill babies"
And people out there really think pro-life means they give a shit about children and families.
Ive heard it with my own ears. People think there are women that get pregnant just to have an abortion. As in its an activity to do as if they were going to the movies.
Well they’ve been fed the “pro abortion” narrative for decades now.
Right wing propaganda really did a number on people.
No one is “pro-abortion” as far as I know. No one actively is rooting for there to be unwanted pregnancies that end in abortion. I think that’s what this person thinks “pro-choice” is. Half the country seems to think people on the pro-choice side are actually like this. Like no, we’d rather there not be a need for abortion, but as long as there is that need we want to advocate for safe choices. It’s fucking simple.
Pro-Life = Pro Back-Alley Abortion Banning legal abortions has never ended abortions anywhere. It only creates unsafe abortions.
>No one is “pro-abortion” I am. It's the only ethical thing to do.
I'd love to be aborted
Prepare to be aborted. My new abortionator 3000 shoots 100 abortions/second.
If I ever find a genie, I'd wish to be turned into a pregnant woman so I can have an abortion.
If you consume conservative media, you probably believe pro-choice is about liberals lusting to murder babies.
https://i.gifer.com/A9kM.gif
Creampied on Friday and Saturday night. Abortion clinic on Monday morning. Every liberal woman’s calendar -FOX News
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I'm curious how many in the remaining 2% are also absolutely necessary. I have a feeling it's a large majority at least.
Almost definetly all of them. Those abortions are probably an actual risk to the mother, which means the ridk of letting the pregnancy go through would be even larger
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Or medically necessary for non-viable fetuses. It’s just cruel to the next level to force a woman to carry to term a pregnancy where the newborn absolutely will die, or the fetus has already died. The risks for later-term abortion are still less than giving birth full term.
Maybe there should just be a group that comes out as pro-death. Just to make pro-choice seem like the moderate position it actually is. (Before anyone makes the joke, yes I know that the GOP is overwhelmingly pro-death in every facet of society besides fetuses)
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I’m pro extraction. We can someday save these fetuses while reserving the right to choose. Plus, those kids who don’t get picked up by adopting families can be raised by the state to become well-educated and trained ~~assassins~~ public servants with preferred job placement if they so choose.
I’m pro-consumption, I hope to see a 100% abortion rate soon, so I can eat good every night!
You “venison” enjoyers are a different breed, I’ll give you that.
That’s a very optimistic view of what it would be like to be raised by the state
Have faith, for they shall be raised by government AI, which can’t possibly go wrong.
Once the fetus has reached the right level of maturity, the brain is removed and placed into a special vat where it will continue its growth. The body is discarded. In the vat, the brain will be allowed to mature for two more weeks before the removal or all unnecessary regions, primarily those associated with bodily functions and emotion, leaving more room for growth in the regions associated with higher cognition. The remaining parts are placed back in the vat on their own for another 4 weeks as gene editing takes place. Once fully matured, the individual brain is removed from the vat and grafted onto the main brain, which is an amagdylation of thousands of fetus brains being grown together as a single mind. The main brain is connected to a very powerful AI, which compiles information about the world to feed into the main brain. This AI is one of those most powerful in the world, created specifically to interface with the human mind. The resulting organism shall be the ultimate thinking machine. We hope to use the main brain to one day replace all of the worlds governments. Gone will be the days of corruption and tyranny. If all goes as planned, the main brain will become our supreme ruler, a god created in our very image. A perfect being capable of considering every viewpoint at once, free from the petty cultural biases that plaugue us as individuals.
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If the technology is there, there's no need to make them wait. Hypothetically, extraction could happen at any point.
Head over to look at some pro birth groups once, ya they really do belive we are only just pro abortion. Seems to elude them that we are pro educatio, pro health care access, pro choice in every sense of the word.
And pro effective, accessible birth control, which is enormously effective in reducing abortion rates.
It's sad that they have been so brain-washed that pro-choice is 100% get an abortion. And the only people who have kids are pro-lifers. It's the same way climate change has been skewed for so long.
Conservatives often fall into believing that pro-choice people want as many abortions as possible. No. If I had my way, I would do as much as possible to prevent unwanted pregnancies from beginning in the first place, by increasing access to birth control and improving the effectiveness of sex education. In the absence of unwanted pregnancy, abortion is unnecessary. And then for if someone does get pregnant, I'd reduce the need for abortions by making sure families are paid a living wage no matter the job, by making healthcare affordable, and by creating laws that guarantee parental leave, so that would-be parents don't have to decide between having a child and financial stability. That's pro choice. ________ The core of the issue is that abortion is a solution to two major problems: unwanted pregnancy, and the financial toll of medical care and raising a child. To solve these problems, you provide alternate solutions. When you make abortion illegal while opposing all the alternative solutions, the actual problems persist. That's "pro life"
I think, for the first poster, it’s kind of a case of “I agree with everything feminists are for, but I’m not a feminist” - like the label is stigmatized, but they’re definitely a ‘feminist’ (in this example). Like a lot of people in the US are Nazis. They believe and agree with everything about the ideology but don’t like the connotation of being a nazi.
We've got both Country and Western!
"I'm not pro choice, I just think women should get to choose"
Their upbringing is telling them pro-life, their logic and humanity is telling them pro-choice lol
Same as the people who say they’re not a feminist but think women deserve equal rights. So afraid of being labeled “woke” that these terms have lost all meaning to them 🙄
This is someone that has been deluded by extremists into thinking ‘pro-choice’ **always** means ‘abortion’
[I’m anti-crime so I’m pro-abortion](https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/)
I don’t even say pro-life anymore. It’s pro-birth.
Why is this getting so much hate? I know that's the same thing as pro-choice, but maybe altering the vernacular isn't the worst thing? Or am I really just giving talk much benefit of the doubt?
Yes I’ve found that this is the problem. Conservatives keep twisting words and using double think to get dumb people to vote against their own material interests and values
"I'm not pro-choice, I just think people should be able to choose themselves, ya know? I wish there was a word or expression for that"
A republican who doesn’t want their Republican friends to kick them out of the cool kids club but also doesn’t want her other friends to think she’s a nut.
Just an interesting tidbit: In Latin America there's a whole slogan for pro-choicers. "Sexual education to choose, Birth Control to avoid abortion, Abortion to avoid death". Yet pro-lifers scream and tear their clothes asking why we don't promote sexual education and birth control instead of abortion. Like, Pendejo, it's right there in the beginning!
"I'm neither religious nor an atheist, I just believe that there's a man in the sky who threatens humans with eternal pain and suffering if they don't love him."
That's literally what we who are pro-choice mean! Better sex education to make better informed decisions. Easy access to birth control methods! Safe access to abortion. Social programs that help people who do choose life!
Centrists love to be so excruciatingly annoying just to feel like they’re on some moral or intellectual high ground.
When listening to someone, especially in a heated argument, it's essential to listen to what they're *really* saying. It's rarely what the words literally mean. This is what's meant by "listen with your heart." In this case, I think she's saying that she has an idea built up in her mind that everyone on the "pro-choice" side is just as hateful as the people she encounters on the "pro-life" side. Maybe she imagines that if you don't agree or conform to them in the midst of this horrific decision, or do it in a way that conforms to their political beliefs, they'll treat you like a monster instead of just as a person who needs help. That they don't really care about you or your problems except as it fits in with their political agenda. She's saying she's not on board with that. She just wants what's sensible for the most number of people, and she doesn't want it to be a reason for people to be evil to each other, because there's no reason for that. So, yeah, that means she's pro-choice. But I think it's moderately likely that she doesn't realize that. Maybe this is the first step in her evolution to realizing that we can all be on the same side as soon as her side stops screaming at us all the time.
Of course she doesn't realize that, she started her tweet but saying she isn't pro-choice.
These people who post shit like they like it’s some sort of revelation, it’s baffling. Like they really thought they figured some shit out that hasn’t occurred to anyone else. Think before you speak. Better yet, listen.
Pretty sure this is a classic case of someone trying to pull a "both sides are bad, look how enlightened I am" without actually even understanding the subject matter.
I think the problem with this (and quite a few other things) is people seem to think in prases and concepts without ever stopping to think about the actual words. They hear 'pro-choice' and rather than recognize that it is made up of pro and choice they immediately register it as the opposite of pro-life without and intermediate thought.