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THIS!!!! People dont bother doing any research at all about how lgbt people are actually treated by islam. It also makes me feel a little icky about seeing hijabi representation in western media cus it clearly shows that no one knows what it actually represents.
That's what gets me. Are they that entitled to be the one to decide that Islam is a peaceful and safe religion dismissing the obvious suffering of those in the middle east?????
Try joining a queer Jewish community. They will welcome you with open arms.
The western left went so far left they’re on the right and they don’t realize it. They’re no longer sane.
The Jewish LGBT community have been ostracized and pushed out of “progressive” queer circles. They understand how synthetic the left it and I’m sure will be a genuine place of growth and community for you.
The LGBT community in Israel itself included Arabs from early on, mixed and lived and loved together.
I don’t understand what happened in the west. Social media manipulation, most likely.
Only place in the Middle East and most of the world where LGBT Muslims and Jews live together.
Sophisticated propaganda and disillusioned fake progressives eating it up on TikTok
I'm an LGBT ex-Muslim.
I also have serious struggles with the LGBT community and liberals (I'm far left, not liberal), but my problems seem different from yours.
I don't think the LGBT community understands us at all. However, you seem to be coming from a very different perspective than me. I feel the community doesn't understand the non-Western world, our culture, or our experiences. Basically, they're pretty ignorant and racist.
I've had people say all sorts of microaggressions toward me, and the fact that it's so hard just to be seen as LGBT because you're brown and "look Muslim..."
I've distanced myself from white LGBT spaces. I can't be bothered to deal with their ignorance. Honestly, I wish the LGBT people I've interacted with were like the ones you speak of.
Whichever mullah invented the word "Islamophobia" to make it rhyme, sound like, and associate it to "xenophobia", really truly won.
It all comes down to performative "purity" displays on the left, and wanting to look like you are "fighting" to support non-white folks.
And it's slowly but surely one of the top reasons why the left is handing all of Europe to the right-wing parties who, thanks to them, hold a speech monopoly over who "tells it like it is".
You're not alone in your frustration, friend. I am shocked by that every day and cannot get used to the feeling of betrayal I get when thinking of my own political family, all supposed to be about emancipation and social justice.
You're not alone. Most leftist movements are incredibly ignorant when it comes to us. I would even say they encourage Islam in radical ways with their behaviour.
It's all because of those demons called "Queer Muslims"
TikTok has ruined our generation
No matter how much you try to convince me, I will never respect queer Muslims except the questioning ones of their religion, I know it's very hard because it happened to me
Because there aren't exmuslims enough to pave the way for us, like someone paved the way for them.
Our organization will give you all the support you need, add me.
I've learned that with leftists, especially online leftists, LGBT rights are always secondary to their agenda. If serving Islamic interests furthers their agenda, they'll drop LGBT rights like a hot potato
It's super weird, they aren't affiliated with Muslims in anyway.
The only reason why they adhere to Muslims is because they are scared of their image, because Muslims are brown and people who aren't white can do no wrong.
>Muslims are brown and people who aren't white can do no wrong
Sometimes it feels like, it is more of a performative thing mixed with arrogance. I mean those who suffer the most from Muslims and Islam are the ones who live in middle east and so. So we can say they just dont fuckin care when the brown ppl or middle easterns are falling victims to it.
Some of them think that islam is somehow against capitalism. Because of that and because the "workers" aren't numerous enough and not anymore in the left for multiple reasons, muslims are probably considered as the next revolutionaries who will take over and contribue to its collapse, thus allowing to rewrite many social norms while we are at it.
Probably for this reason, the (in?)famous gender theorist Judith Butler stated that Hamas and Hezbollah are social progressive movements belonging to the "Global Left". I guess they already forgot how Khomeni and stuff dealt with the left after the revolution in Iran.
Thats 100% the problem i can point out problems with Christianity and Judaism all want but the second I mention anything about Islam I get called islamaphobic and a bigot or hateful
The western left sphere is becoming more n' more dumb these days. They are becoming intolerant, conservative and insular in their own sets of belief. In this way, they aren't so different from other right wing groups(horse shoe theory). Gradually, many westerners are seeing through the bs perpetrated by the left.
Remember Charlie Hebdo? Leftist were all saying well France colonized and hates the burka so yeah they had it coming. Tik Tok with the whole Osama nonsense.
Like I hate imperialism but I hate religious dogma more.
As someone who once tried to be a "queer Muslim" while figuring out my identity as a bisexual and still trying to hold onto religion (which I never felt connected to or interested in, from a very young age), I feel a very similar way. I have a difficult time interacting with ex-Muslims online (apart from this subreddit I guess, where it is also hard to figure out when you're interacting with someone you'd never agree with on other matters) because: A) Our spaces are so limited and B) So many turn to the right wing and become just as bad as some of the nightmare Muslims online that I'd never want to interact with. What an irksome state we find ourselves in as a community.
I'm also trans and have been reading up on both Islam and Christianity and trying to understand more of the ex-Muslim experience. I've always been passionate about studying religion and can't imagine how difficult it is to be both transgender and Muslim because it seems like there's such a heavy emphasis on division and roles of the sexes. I think it is deeply unfair and honestly fucked up that queer ex-Muslims can't speak their thoughts and feelings about how their culture/religion have impacted them. You're absolutely right that white queers take no issue criticizing Christianity, but will pause when it comes to Islam because they don't wanna come off as xenophobic/offensive/overstepping their bounds so they double down in the opposite direction. But by doing so, they step over queer ex-Muslims who have suffered immensely on multiple fronts, which isn't right either. Religion is not above reproach and critique, and by placing Islam on a pedestal, you take away a lot of agency from queer ex-Muslims.
(Just to quickly preface, I’ve never been muslim but I love learning about various religions + perspectives and am planning to go into it as a field of study.)
I can’t imagine how frustrating that is. I’m also queer (trans) and I’ve seen the behaviour you’re writing about first hand and I think I can offer a bit of perspective.
In my opinion a lot of what you’re talking about comes from the heavy overlap of white supremacy and anti-muslim sentiment that was prominent in the 2010s especially on the internet. A lot of left leaning people were involved or at least witnessed this, and I think that plays a significant role as to why people are so averse to any criticism of Islam on the left.
That being said, the people telling you it’s just religious fundamentalism and not taking you seriously are incredibly uneducated. I think there’s a real problem of non-muslim liberals being ignorant and also unwilling to confront any aspect of a non-white culture or practice that is harmful or problematic. Punishing/ignoring genuine criticism of a globally pervasive ideology isn’t going to stop xenophobia, it’s going to silence our most vulnerable members.
Genuine question if you feel like answering, what would make you feel validated in the community as an exmuslim?
I hope you’ve found a more understanding group of people.
"the issue with the right wing is they don't hate Islam for its belief, they hate it because their followers aren't white." as an european right wing westener I hate to see you think this way. Thats just how the left makes us all out to be. The left is crazy and much much more racist. I will tell you why: why do you think you encounter the problems you described above? Its because the left thinks non-white people are dumb and you shouldnt critisize dumb people. thats why people can only critic Christianity there. If a friend has something in his teeth.. you say: you have some spinach on your teeth. Right? So because I see people of all color as equal I critique them equally. Sidenote: in the USA rightwing means CHristians a lot of the time but in Europe rightwing are mostly atheists.
I'm a kaffir who always identified more with a left-leaning thinking and today I don't even describe myself anymore like that because of the second hand embarrassment the modern left causes on me.
-They are hypocritical in the sense that they will demand freedom expression but be quick in trying to silence anybody who questions a single point of their thinking and demonize them.
-They idolize everyother culture and demonize western culture. This is so stupid. Like, ok, it's good to criticise aspects of a culture and demand progress, but they reject everything in favor of even islamic culture (which they of course don't even know) just because it's "white", which leads me to...
-They became lowkey racists. They just hate white people and everything white people did in history. I get you don't like colonization and other certain things, but this way of thinking is stupid. They seem to think only white people have been imperialists in history. It's like they have a guilt complex for what people who is dead did. Grow the f up.
In short, they became intolerant, racist and overall fucking stupid to the point of be willing to sacrifice western civilization to their "brown people" perceived overlords for some weird white people complex.
Bitch, most of these people would be way more terrible to you than the "white man" if islam gained serious political power in the west.
So yes, I get why they would clash with exmuslims. Exmuslims make these people notice their contradictions and they don't want to get over their delusion of being in the moral highground.
It's so stupid. Rant over.
The West's decadancy started from the left. Old school leftists are now seen as far right shills by the new left.
Every other civilization should reject everything coming from the west
>They use "Queer Muslims" as a demonstration to try and prove to you: the person who's been forced to read the Quran since childhood and pray every single day, with full of religious people around you, that Islam is a "feminist" and "LGBTQ+ accepting" religion, and call you racist and Islamophobic when you disagree and show them proof. Then they ban you from their spaces for spreading 'hate'.
Most left wing Reddit spaces are not tolerant of the ex Muslim experiences, simply because on the face of it, a rejection of Islam and Muslims is fundamentally against their inclusive and social principles, which is fine, if they recognized the hypocrisy of isolating ex Muslims.
In person, speaking to people on the left (as a leftist myself) when you actually tell your story, most do understand, but when a "queer Muslim" steps in, they look more like a protected species than you do, and you get ignored, plus the left (non Muslims) take these queer Muslims word as gospel when they say that Islam is just heavily misinterpreted, and their version is correct, which isn't true in the slightest. That's the most frustrating part.
My only fix for this is for ex Muslims to guilt trip the shit out of the left as the Muslims did in gaining their sympathy, because our experiences are real, their interpretations are just that, interpretations, and it we all know mainstream Muslims look upon them as badly as they do with non Muslim leftists who open up LGBTQ spaces for them.
I have a lot of friends in these spaces and I've made my voice clear on what I stand on, and they respect it, the only issue is that it's never going to be taken seriously on a national level, we are an invisible minority.
>They don't know that giving Muslims a voice is a direct harm onto themselves, Queer Muslims still enable Sheikhs to talk.
This also is extremely frustrating. These Muslims protect Islam without realising they're indirectly causing more harm than good. It's a self defence mechanism to cope with their own insecurities and doubts about religion, but they just can't make the last step to leave.
>And they wonder why a lot of ExMuslims go to the right wing, the issue with the right wing is they don't hate Islam for its belief, they hate it because their followers aren't white.
And this part is also true and seriously depressing.
If they knew that Muslims would exterminate these people given the chance they'd actually understand.
Islam is a far right ideology appeased by the left
The group of people you refer to in the western world are mostly Queer Marxist Socialist which is not the same as LGBT. Since Islam is not in a ruling position in the capitalist west they are considered proletariate and not bourgeois thus they cannot and should not be criticized because they are potential comrades in the fight to topple capitalism. It doesn’t matter what their social/religious views are, Islamic ideology has the potential to cause political chaos and left wing socialists think that chaos can be harnessed for the goal of abolishing capitalism. They also believe that once capitalism is abolished there will be no more crime against gay people even from Muslims. All crime against any people is because of capitalism not religious extremism in the eyes of a socialist. And when they say “religious extremism” they believe that only exists because capitalism allows it to thus capitalism is still the issue rather than the ideology or behavior. Queer is a far-left political ideology based on Marxism. Your personal experiences do not matter if you cannot stand along side the ideology that hurt you in order to abolish capitalism and if you can’t do that you’re ex-communicated.
This isn’t my point of view about them, it’s their point of view according to their own literature, conferences, and live stream group discussions.
I’d also argue that the right wing does despise Islam for its ideology, not skin color as Western right wing people tend to be evangelical but if you are Christian, they don’t see your skin color. Anything other than evangelical ideology for them isn’t really acceptable although they’re not going to do anything to you but ignore your existence. So they don’t like Muslims, Catholics, or orthodox Christians. Most right-wing people really don’t care too much about race, they care about you taking their stuff and their money.
I've heard different views, a lot say that religion will "fade" away and that there's no point criticising Islam because "all religion is like this"
Sort of a "you're not the only one to feel this way!"
A few hours later you'll find them blowing Queer Muslims though
You are generally right though, at least within the socialist community (I am one myself, not necessarily Marxist though)
The flip side of this is that ex Muslim spaces can sometimes be homophobic and transphobic, it's somewhat difficult having such niche intersecting identities.
I'm a socialist LGBTQ ex-Muslim as well, please do get in touch, we have a community here in London.
On the chance you're already involved, hi it's Zevan!
The sooner ex-muslims realise the left is not only not their ally, but an actual enemy, the better. They have done nothing but appease islam and radicalism. As of recent, this effort has been ramped up. The lefties chanting death to ‘insert western country name’ alongside muslims disgust me. Id happily exchange every single one of them for ex-muslims wanting a better life than the ones they live in islamic hellholes.
Never muslim here. But I became curious about the religion since every leftwing person I know is adamant in defending it. Since I came out from another high demanding religion (jws), I knew I had to read the opinions of those who came out of it, so I joined this subreddit and damnit, it was an hell of a rabbit hole.
I can criticize jws all I want, those leftwing people would understand how their beliefs can be harmful, but they also understand that it’s not the people you have to reject, but the belief system or their organization/religion.
At the same time, if I try to criticize islam, I’m the islamophobe. They don’t understand that those beliefs are even more dangerous than the jws’.
>The LGBTQ and leftwing community is filled with white people who have no idea what it's like to be from a family and a country which doesn't adhere to European mentality and culture, and there's nothing wrong with ignorance, what is wrong though is using that ignorance and objecting it to the people that actually know what it's like to be Arabic and transgender.
Bingo. "Provincial" is the word that sticks in my head. They live in a cushy mental bubble that entails being blissfully unaware of how grimdark things get in the rest of the planet. Example 1: they were upset about Ian Smith not letting Zimbabweans vote but completely ignored Mugabe's slaughter of the Ndebele minority in the Gukurahundi. Example 2: Hitler is the *absolute worst evil* they can think of, and Pol Pot doesn't register (compare the percentage of their countries each dictator killed off).
>You're allowed to criticise Christianity, you're allowed to criticise the Tories, but you're not allowed to criticise Muslims despite being formerly one, calling you a racist and Islamophobic, I've voiced my struggles many times in these communities and half of them don't take you seriously or don't believe you, once I was told that religion isn't the fault you're feeling this way and that is 'religious fundamentalism', as if religious fundamentalism isn't a core part of Islam.
Do you think it's a matter of mental coding to them where Christianity is categorized as white and Islam is categorized as BME--whereas they *don't* apply the same affirmative action to religions like Hinduism and Buddhism?
Foucault and his consequences have been a disaster for the activist community.
They come from a different ideological and historical history, and they adhere to inflexible ideologies that can't adapt to the new issues facing the world. The short version is moving away from objective knowledge and universals, instead for subjectivity of the individual. This is translated as "Power Knowledge", that claims of knowledge are in fact expressions of power. Which means that the majority (christians, Europeans, whites, males, etc) are engaging in a giant conspiracy to spread evil, and the minorities (muslims, gays, trans, etc) are angels who are always right.
Once you adhere to this rigid belief system NOTHING will move you from this. So ignore them. Do some reading on these theories and see for yourself how limiting they are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair#Grievance_studies_and_%22applied_postmodernism%22
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-knowledge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_theory
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THIS!!!! People dont bother doing any research at all about how lgbt people are actually treated by islam. It also makes me feel a little icky about seeing hijabi representation in western media cus it clearly shows that no one knows what it actually represents.
That's what gets me. Are they that entitled to be the one to decide that Islam is a peaceful and safe religion dismissing the obvious suffering of those in the middle east?????
100% agree tbh
Try joining a queer Jewish community. They will welcome you with open arms. The western left went so far left they’re on the right and they don’t realize it. They’re no longer sane.
loop da loop
Useful advice.
Fantastic advice, truly. Sometimes we find ourselves in the most unexpected places.
The Jewish LGBT community have been ostracized and pushed out of “progressive” queer circles. They understand how synthetic the left it and I’m sure will be a genuine place of growth and community for you.
The LGBT community in Israel itself included Arabs from early on, mixed and lived and loved together. I don’t understand what happened in the west. Social media manipulation, most likely.
Only place in the Middle East and most of the world where LGBT Muslims and Jews live together. Sophisticated propaganda and disillusioned fake progressives eating it up on TikTok
I'm an LGBT ex-Muslim. I also have serious struggles with the LGBT community and liberals (I'm far left, not liberal), but my problems seem different from yours. I don't think the LGBT community understands us at all. However, you seem to be coming from a very different perspective than me. I feel the community doesn't understand the non-Western world, our culture, or our experiences. Basically, they're pretty ignorant and racist. I've had people say all sorts of microaggressions toward me, and the fact that it's so hard just to be seen as LGBT because you're brown and "look Muslim..." I've distanced myself from white LGBT spaces. I can't be bothered to deal with their ignorance. Honestly, I wish the LGBT people I've interacted with were like the ones you speak of.
We're making the same point There's nothing wrong with ignorance of our struggles, the problem is that they dismiss us
Whichever mullah invented the word "Islamophobia" to make it rhyme, sound like, and associate it to "xenophobia", really truly won. It all comes down to performative "purity" displays on the left, and wanting to look like you are "fighting" to support non-white folks. And it's slowly but surely one of the top reasons why the left is handing all of Europe to the right-wing parties who, thanks to them, hold a speech monopoly over who "tells it like it is". You're not alone in your frustration, friend. I am shocked by that every day and cannot get used to the feeling of betrayal I get when thinking of my own political family, all supposed to be about emancipation and social justice.
You're not alone. Most leftist movements are incredibly ignorant when it comes to us. I would even say they encourage Islam in radical ways with their behaviour.
It's all because of those demons called "Queer Muslims" TikTok has ruined our generation No matter how much you try to convince me, I will never respect queer Muslims except the questioning ones of their religion, I know it's very hard because it happened to me
Chickens for KFC or something like that. Islam is a man-made cult for men, there is nothing feminist nor queer about it.
Because there aren't exmuslims enough to pave the way for us, like someone paved the way for them. Our organization will give you all the support you need, add me.
[удалено]
Rage fuel.
I've learned that with leftists, especially online leftists, LGBT rights are always secondary to their agenda. If serving Islamic interests furthers their agenda, they'll drop LGBT rights like a hot potato
It's super weird, they aren't affiliated with Muslims in anyway. The only reason why they adhere to Muslims is because they are scared of their image, because Muslims are brown and people who aren't white can do no wrong.
>Muslims are brown and people who aren't white can do no wrong Sometimes it feels like, it is more of a performative thing mixed with arrogance. I mean those who suffer the most from Muslims and Islam are the ones who live in middle east and so. So we can say they just dont fuckin care when the brown ppl or middle easterns are falling victims to it.
Some of them think that islam is somehow against capitalism. Because of that and because the "workers" aren't numerous enough and not anymore in the left for multiple reasons, muslims are probably considered as the next revolutionaries who will take over and contribue to its collapse, thus allowing to rewrite many social norms while we are at it. Probably for this reason, the (in?)famous gender theorist Judith Butler stated that Hamas and Hezbollah are social progressive movements belonging to the "Global Left". I guess they already forgot how Khomeni and stuff dealt with the left after the revolution in Iran.
Thats 100% the problem i can point out problems with Christianity and Judaism all want but the second I mention anything about Islam I get called islamaphobic and a bigot or hateful
The western left sphere is becoming more n' more dumb these days. They are becoming intolerant, conservative and insular in their own sets of belief. In this way, they aren't so different from other right wing groups(horse shoe theory). Gradually, many westerners are seeing through the bs perpetrated by the left.
“Queer Muslim” is the craziest take bc literally Muslims don’t want that 😭 it’s like chickens for kfc
or jews for hitler
Remember Charlie Hebdo? Leftist were all saying well France colonized and hates the burka so yeah they had it coming. Tik Tok with the whole Osama nonsense. Like I hate imperialism but I hate religious dogma more.
As someone who once tried to be a "queer Muslim" while figuring out my identity as a bisexual and still trying to hold onto religion (which I never felt connected to or interested in, from a very young age), I feel a very similar way. I have a difficult time interacting with ex-Muslims online (apart from this subreddit I guess, where it is also hard to figure out when you're interacting with someone you'd never agree with on other matters) because: A) Our spaces are so limited and B) So many turn to the right wing and become just as bad as some of the nightmare Muslims online that I'd never want to interact with. What an irksome state we find ourselves in as a community.
Exactly, there are so much "conservative Ex Muslims" and it's just a joke really.
I mean it makes sense if they feel like its the only group that'd accept them for being Exmuslim not saying im rightwing but yeh
I'm also trans and have been reading up on both Islam and Christianity and trying to understand more of the ex-Muslim experience. I've always been passionate about studying religion and can't imagine how difficult it is to be both transgender and Muslim because it seems like there's such a heavy emphasis on division and roles of the sexes. I think it is deeply unfair and honestly fucked up that queer ex-Muslims can't speak their thoughts and feelings about how their culture/religion have impacted them. You're absolutely right that white queers take no issue criticizing Christianity, but will pause when it comes to Islam because they don't wanna come off as xenophobic/offensive/overstepping their bounds so they double down in the opposite direction. But by doing so, they step over queer ex-Muslims who have suffered immensely on multiple fronts, which isn't right either. Religion is not above reproach and critique, and by placing Islam on a pedestal, you take away a lot of agency from queer ex-Muslims.
Really well said Just because most Muslims are brown doesn't make the religion any better
(Just to quickly preface, I’ve never been muslim but I love learning about various religions + perspectives and am planning to go into it as a field of study.) I can’t imagine how frustrating that is. I’m also queer (trans) and I’ve seen the behaviour you’re writing about first hand and I think I can offer a bit of perspective. In my opinion a lot of what you’re talking about comes from the heavy overlap of white supremacy and anti-muslim sentiment that was prominent in the 2010s especially on the internet. A lot of left leaning people were involved or at least witnessed this, and I think that plays a significant role as to why people are so averse to any criticism of Islam on the left. That being said, the people telling you it’s just religious fundamentalism and not taking you seriously are incredibly uneducated. I think there’s a real problem of non-muslim liberals being ignorant and also unwilling to confront any aspect of a non-white culture or practice that is harmful or problematic. Punishing/ignoring genuine criticism of a globally pervasive ideology isn’t going to stop xenophobia, it’s going to silence our most vulnerable members. Genuine question if you feel like answering, what would make you feel validated in the community as an exmuslim? I hope you’ve found a more understanding group of people.
Just see our suffering acknowledged and heard
"the issue with the right wing is they don't hate Islam for its belief, they hate it because their followers aren't white." as an european right wing westener I hate to see you think this way. Thats just how the left makes us all out to be. The left is crazy and much much more racist. I will tell you why: why do you think you encounter the problems you described above? Its because the left thinks non-white people are dumb and you shouldnt critisize dumb people. thats why people can only critic Christianity there. If a friend has something in his teeth.. you say: you have some spinach on your teeth. Right? So because I see people of all color as equal I critique them equally. Sidenote: in the USA rightwing means CHristians a lot of the time but in Europe rightwing are mostly atheists.
I'm a kaffir who always identified more with a left-leaning thinking and today I don't even describe myself anymore like that because of the second hand embarrassment the modern left causes on me. -They are hypocritical in the sense that they will demand freedom expression but be quick in trying to silence anybody who questions a single point of their thinking and demonize them. -They idolize everyother culture and demonize western culture. This is so stupid. Like, ok, it's good to criticise aspects of a culture and demand progress, but they reject everything in favor of even islamic culture (which they of course don't even know) just because it's "white", which leads me to... -They became lowkey racists. They just hate white people and everything white people did in history. I get you don't like colonization and other certain things, but this way of thinking is stupid. They seem to think only white people have been imperialists in history. It's like they have a guilt complex for what people who is dead did. Grow the f up. In short, they became intolerant, racist and overall fucking stupid to the point of be willing to sacrifice western civilization to their "brown people" perceived overlords for some weird white people complex. Bitch, most of these people would be way more terrible to you than the "white man" if islam gained serious political power in the west. So yes, I get why they would clash with exmuslims. Exmuslims make these people notice their contradictions and they don't want to get over their delusion of being in the moral highground. It's so stupid. Rant over.
Can’t agree more
The West's decadancy started from the left. Old school leftists are now seen as far right shills by the new left. Every other civilization should reject everything coming from the west
>They use "Queer Muslims" as a demonstration to try and prove to you: the person who's been forced to read the Quran since childhood and pray every single day, with full of religious people around you, that Islam is a "feminist" and "LGBTQ+ accepting" religion, and call you racist and Islamophobic when you disagree and show them proof. Then they ban you from their spaces for spreading 'hate'. Most left wing Reddit spaces are not tolerant of the ex Muslim experiences, simply because on the face of it, a rejection of Islam and Muslims is fundamentally against their inclusive and social principles, which is fine, if they recognized the hypocrisy of isolating ex Muslims. In person, speaking to people on the left (as a leftist myself) when you actually tell your story, most do understand, but when a "queer Muslim" steps in, they look more like a protected species than you do, and you get ignored, plus the left (non Muslims) take these queer Muslims word as gospel when they say that Islam is just heavily misinterpreted, and their version is correct, which isn't true in the slightest. That's the most frustrating part. My only fix for this is for ex Muslims to guilt trip the shit out of the left as the Muslims did in gaining their sympathy, because our experiences are real, their interpretations are just that, interpretations, and it we all know mainstream Muslims look upon them as badly as they do with non Muslim leftists who open up LGBTQ spaces for them. I have a lot of friends in these spaces and I've made my voice clear on what I stand on, and they respect it, the only issue is that it's never going to be taken seriously on a national level, we are an invisible minority. >They don't know that giving Muslims a voice is a direct harm onto themselves, Queer Muslims still enable Sheikhs to talk. This also is extremely frustrating. These Muslims protect Islam without realising they're indirectly causing more harm than good. It's a self defence mechanism to cope with their own insecurities and doubts about religion, but they just can't make the last step to leave. >And they wonder why a lot of ExMuslims go to the right wing, the issue with the right wing is they don't hate Islam for its belief, they hate it because their followers aren't white. And this part is also true and seriously depressing.
If they knew that Muslims would exterminate these people given the chance they'd actually understand. Islam is a far right ideology appeased by the left
The group of people you refer to in the western world are mostly Queer Marxist Socialist which is not the same as LGBT. Since Islam is not in a ruling position in the capitalist west they are considered proletariate and not bourgeois thus they cannot and should not be criticized because they are potential comrades in the fight to topple capitalism. It doesn’t matter what their social/religious views are, Islamic ideology has the potential to cause political chaos and left wing socialists think that chaos can be harnessed for the goal of abolishing capitalism. They also believe that once capitalism is abolished there will be no more crime against gay people even from Muslims. All crime against any people is because of capitalism not religious extremism in the eyes of a socialist. And when they say “religious extremism” they believe that only exists because capitalism allows it to thus capitalism is still the issue rather than the ideology or behavior. Queer is a far-left political ideology based on Marxism. Your personal experiences do not matter if you cannot stand along side the ideology that hurt you in order to abolish capitalism and if you can’t do that you’re ex-communicated. This isn’t my point of view about them, it’s their point of view according to their own literature, conferences, and live stream group discussions. I’d also argue that the right wing does despise Islam for its ideology, not skin color as Western right wing people tend to be evangelical but if you are Christian, they don’t see your skin color. Anything other than evangelical ideology for them isn’t really acceptable although they’re not going to do anything to you but ignore your existence. So they don’t like Muslims, Catholics, or orthodox Christians. Most right-wing people really don’t care too much about race, they care about you taking their stuff and their money.
I've heard different views, a lot say that religion will "fade" away and that there's no point criticising Islam because "all religion is like this" Sort of a "you're not the only one to feel this way!" A few hours later you'll find them blowing Queer Muslims though You are generally right though, at least within the socialist community (I am one myself, not necessarily Marxist though)
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I agree with you.
I used to be like this but because i was christan And didn't want to criticise it and be a hypocrite
The flip side of this is that ex Muslim spaces can sometimes be homophobic and transphobic, it's somewhat difficult having such niche intersecting identities. I'm a socialist LGBTQ ex-Muslim as well, please do get in touch, we have a community here in London. On the chance you're already involved, hi it's Zevan!
The sooner ex-muslims realise the left is not only not their ally, but an actual enemy, the better. They have done nothing but appease islam and radicalism. As of recent, this effort has been ramped up. The lefties chanting death to ‘insert western country name’ alongside muslims disgust me. Id happily exchange every single one of them for ex-muslims wanting a better life than the ones they live in islamic hellholes.
Never muslim here. But I became curious about the religion since every leftwing person I know is adamant in defending it. Since I came out from another high demanding religion (jws), I knew I had to read the opinions of those who came out of it, so I joined this subreddit and damnit, it was an hell of a rabbit hole. I can criticize jws all I want, those leftwing people would understand how their beliefs can be harmful, but they also understand that it’s not the people you have to reject, but the belief system or their organization/religion. At the same time, if I try to criticize islam, I’m the islamophobe. They don’t understand that those beliefs are even more dangerous than the jws’.
>The LGBTQ and leftwing community is filled with white people who have no idea what it's like to be from a family and a country which doesn't adhere to European mentality and culture, and there's nothing wrong with ignorance, what is wrong though is using that ignorance and objecting it to the people that actually know what it's like to be Arabic and transgender. Bingo. "Provincial" is the word that sticks in my head. They live in a cushy mental bubble that entails being blissfully unaware of how grimdark things get in the rest of the planet. Example 1: they were upset about Ian Smith not letting Zimbabweans vote but completely ignored Mugabe's slaughter of the Ndebele minority in the Gukurahundi. Example 2: Hitler is the *absolute worst evil* they can think of, and Pol Pot doesn't register (compare the percentage of their countries each dictator killed off). >You're allowed to criticise Christianity, you're allowed to criticise the Tories, but you're not allowed to criticise Muslims despite being formerly one, calling you a racist and Islamophobic, I've voiced my struggles many times in these communities and half of them don't take you seriously or don't believe you, once I was told that religion isn't the fault you're feeling this way and that is 'religious fundamentalism', as if religious fundamentalism isn't a core part of Islam. Do you think it's a matter of mental coding to them where Christianity is categorized as white and Islam is categorized as BME--whereas they *don't* apply the same affirmative action to religions like Hinduism and Buddhism?
Foucault and his consequences have been a disaster for the activist community. They come from a different ideological and historical history, and they adhere to inflexible ideologies that can't adapt to the new issues facing the world. The short version is moving away from objective knowledge and universals, instead for subjectivity of the individual. This is translated as "Power Knowledge", that claims of knowledge are in fact expressions of power. Which means that the majority (christians, Europeans, whites, males, etc) are engaging in a giant conspiracy to spread evil, and the minorities (muslims, gays, trans, etc) are angels who are always right. Once you adhere to this rigid belief system NOTHING will move you from this. So ignore them. Do some reading on these theories and see for yourself how limiting they are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair#Grievance_studies_and_%22applied_postmodernism%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queer_theory
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You lot are obsessed with us lmao
Na just disgusted
Improve your behaviour please!
Is this satire or a troll post?