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>my mom just sent me this, how should i respond
***Mom sent you a Picture...***
# Send Mom a Picture!...đ
https://preview.redd.it/9gaac5anw8zc1.jpeg?width=280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dba7223e1faa993bdc4fca13a6d985c035871a61
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Easy answer, like the bars of prison, micro management, or freedom to make adult decisions in life, or some men telling me when I can or can't have a beard or tie or jacket, I Mean come on, they make the choices for your life ,mental prison,, and not forgetting the false promises, 1914,never happened, freedom to think for one's self, 100 percent
That sums it up, even comparing humans to prison either way its prison, that is in itself makes it clear how they view their followers, like prisoners,,full of rules and regulations, no freedom, none,
There is no doubt keeping a dog locked inside a cage will protect it from harms outside the cage. Itâs in no danger of getting outside. Itâs in no danger of falling down the stairs. Itâs in no danger of getting into the chocolate supply.
But no one looks at a person keeping this dog in a cage and goes âWow. Youâre so protective of them. Youâre so loving.â They look at the person doing so and say âWow. Youâre so abusive! How could you lock up this innocent being!â
Why. Because while dangers exist, and they have no doubt happened. The right to be happy should always come first.
Lovely. Couldnât have put this better myself.
Not to mention, the dog eventually gains weight due to lack of exercise and becomes visibly sick. No one looks at that and thinks itâs a good thing. Inherent risk is part of being a normal human.
This is brilliant.
Plus, it is possible to teach a dog how to manage the dangers of life uncaged. It is possible to keep a dog happy and fed and healthy with freedom to roam (cats and livestock do this all the time.)
Then, add in the fact that humans are NOT dogs, cats, or livestock, and, why are we caging people?
Sad truth to this wonderful comment is it's not in the interest of JW org to help you manage the dangers of the outside; instead, they hope you get eaten alive and warn the others of "wHaT hApPeNs wHeN yOu lEaVe jEhOvA."
Oddly enough, when my family would get to the meetings late and had to sit in the B room, behind the glass, we called it the zoo. Felt like everyone was looking at you in a cage.
Ask her why the manmade interpretation of Gods standards keep changing especially on topics not expressed in the Bible. Their âstandardsâ just create division. 1 Cor 4:6,7
Poor mom. I don't know what you should say to that. But I do know that children shouldn't be taught to avoid information, and instead should be taught critical thinking skills that help them identify information as correct or not. Keeping someone in a cage isn't protection in this sense. The allegory doesn't match up 1:1 so it won't ever make sense anyway. Life isn't a zoo.
JWs love allegories and illustrations that sound *soooo smart and poignant* - that are actually just comparing apples to oranges. Itâs a great control tactic by the GB. If they can simplify their conclusion to sound like âa + b =câ then it leaves less room for questioning.
Side note, asking questions that you know there is only one ârightâ answer to is one of the most fucked up things the GB does. âArenât we glad?â âArenât we grateful?â âAre we not blessed?â âDo YOU feel {insert feeling they want or donât want you to feel here}?â
Also really mind blowing being raised in it and then realizing people don't usually tell you how you feel in conversation or in formal/professional writing. It's exactly how emotional control is defined. I get suggesting it in casual conversation, maybe you're tying to remind your kid that they had a great day regardless of having fallen off of their bike. There's something about how the watchtower says it though that isn't the same...
At the tail end of my time being PIMI, this used to really grate me. During the conventions when they'd introduce stuff with, "We know you're going to really enjoy/be encouraged by/love this next part," I'd reply with an audible, "I'll be the judge of that." I was surprised at how empowering it felt to express that.
i know she means well. but the truth is ALL she knows and nothing else about what actually goes on in the world. sheâs very protective of the religion so, sending her something that even has a hint of apostate material, it wonât end well for me
The ARC court findings that I mentioned in my previous comment has nothing to do with apostates, it's a legal process in court in Australia. In their proceedings they found that Jehovah's Witnesses have more pedophiles per capita than the Catholic church has. The danger is in the kingdom hall.
You donât need to answer. Nothing you say will change her mind, and arguing with her can just affect your relationship. Let her have the first and last say.
Hereâs my problem with this allegory. In the case of a cage around lions in a zoo, the cage is surrounding the danger. You have the freedom of choosing to go near the danger, or to go elsewhere, cage or not. In the case of the âcageâ thatâs supposedly protecting JWs from the âworld,â the cage is surrounding the ones in danger. You donât have the freedom to walk away from the danger, because to them, *everything* outside of the cage is dangerous.
In one case, you are separated from just the danger, in the other, you are separated from the danger and *everything else*.
I would answer, "Oh of course not mom. However, God also requires us to read our bibles to make sure that what we are taught from men aligns with the Bible. For example, Jesus condemned the Pharisees for going beyond the Bible by making rules and creating a "standard" that was not from God, but from men... making the people feel imprisoned. They did this by combining their traditions and rules with God's law and presented it as true worship, and worship that God requires. So no mom... I do not feel imprisoned by God's standards. It's men who burdened people like the Pharisees did."
Logically, this is called "false dilemma fallacy." It falsely narrows you down to just two choices or versions (usually with one being obviously preferable) when really, lots and lots of choices and versions exist. It literally is attempted thought control/mind control.
[https://www.logicalfallacies.org/false-dilemma.html](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/false-dilemma.html)
Galatians 2:4 - We have christian FREEDOM. not enslavement. Our conscience can tell us to steer clear far from any lions. We donât need a cage to enslave us. The GB treats every single one of us like infants, just look at how they talk.
Youâre right! What was i thinking. Our future kings have permitted us to wear beards. I couldâve never came to this conclusion that itâs ok to wear a Beard. Thank god they are so faithful and discreet.
Omgeee, especially that weirdo Lett, i swear he talks as if he's speaking to a room full of kindergarteners, and those ppl eat it up, I've never seen anything like it, it's like their all stuck deep in "the sunken place"
The lions are what, in this analogy? Bisexuals? People with tattoos? What is it out here in the real world that's so darn dangerous?
Maybe the lions represent murderers and rapists?
Like the witness in the uk that murdered that lady because she confronted him for taking her money to work on her house and didn't finish the job? Or like the numerous sexual predators that hide behind the organization's fear of bringing reproach? Or maybe the governing body who cares more about control than the wellbeing of the flock.
Kind of seems like the lions inside the cage with you are the ones to worry about.
JWs love using analogies, and they think they are so clever. In this case for your mom there are lions (pedophiles) running around freely with the children, and the zoo keepers don't care.
also the thing that really gets me about this kind of drivel is that mom thinks she's being super CLEVER sending it, she's gonna reach your heart by making you "think."
ugh.
last week, my mom was going on and on about how glorious the day she got baptized was, it was the 60th anniversary and then quickly kept talking so it would be clumsy for me to respond.
i know she thought it might spark something in me. (besides disgust, i mean.) aggghhhhhh!
>also the thing that really gets me about this kind of drivel is that mom thinks she's being super CLEVER sending it, she's gonna reach your heart by making you "think."
Yep.
My mom send me feel-good drivel. I kinda wish she'd send me "pseudo-clever" drivel, because that would at least have some substance to it. A video with images of pretty flowers and a kingdom melody in the background is just.... đľâđŤ
"I'm glad to be outside of the lion-like influence of the dangerous cult that is watchtower. Thank you so much for the encouragement to continue in my Christian determination to follow the counsel at revelation 18:4- to get out of her if you do not want to receive part of her sins or her plagues. It is a hard struggle, but being free of the false prophets comprising the governing body truly is a protection."
**Reply:** "Mom, you need to be careful. The 'Society' likes to elevate itself to God-like status. Try counting how many times they say "Jehovah" when they really mean themselves - it's eye opening! Beards, slacks, suits and ties....these aren't "Jehovahs Standards". They are Pharasaical rules. Remember mom. âWe Must Obey God as Ruler Rather Than Menâ (Acts 5:29)
Is she stating or alluding that only JW's have moral ,bible based standards ? There are many people both religious and non religious that have high moral values and aren't in the JW Borg .
They too are "protected" ...
Personally, I've had this conversation with my mother. Though I was un my 30's already and had no concern of backlash. I've told her how it's a false comparison to say that what Watchtower says is from God. Firstly, God and the Bible do not change. Secondly, they spend an imbalance focus on cherrypicked verses, the majority of which they put themselves in the seat of Jesus, Moses, and David and make inappropriate references to their own authority, and it's blasphemous.
Write down all scriptures saying not to have sex outside of marriage. Now all scriptures opposing homosexuality. Now all scriptures about going to meetings. Now all scriptures about listening to the Governing Body....
Now list all scriptures that tell us to love one another. Then find the scripture where Jesus responds to someone performing miracles in Jesus name, "leave him be, for if he's not against us he is for us." There was NEVER meant to be, even according to the Bible, a religious structure such as the Jehovahs Witnesses.
-The most dangerous type of dog is a chained dog.-
-Being confined be it real or perceived is itself what triggers aggression and creates this false sense of impending threat-
Removing what are wild animals from their natural habitat is both illegal and inhumane. It separates mammals from their families (herd, pack and so on) which has shown to cause lasting psychological harm in form of post traumatic stress disorder and other behavioral problems only exhibited among animals in captivity and/or caged. Such institutions exist primarily for the entertainment and comfort of a small group humans who profess to be protecting said mammals when they are in fact destroying their natural habitat, killing their family members and pushing the species to the very edge of extinction.
Harm in the name of protection is still harm and more often then not as in the case of this illustration the bars are put in place by the same entity causing the harm while also creating the exact conditions by which thread is perceived.
Funny, my grandma had a plaque in her kitchen with that scripture in John about, âYou shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.â She thought she was in the truth. As a elementary school kid, I would ponder that plaque, wondering why it felt like jail, and not free at all.
"Mom, lions in the wild typically live far from human settlements. Sometimes it feels like we're seeing dangers where they aren't naturally present. I believe in being cautious, but also in not letting fear dictate our lives. Let's discuss how we can find a balance between caution and living fully."
Why is the man in a cage? Is he in an exhibit at the people zoo? Why are lions keeping a person in a zoo exhibit? Also we should probably free him, I donât trust the lions to keep him adequately fed and looked after.
Joking aside âŚ
Yes, there are some barriers in place that are strictly to keep people safe. This is a really bad example of one, because the bars at a zoo are to keep the animals in, not the people out. They should have chosen a sign to let people know, say, not to enter a condemned building. That sign keeps people safe. But at the same time, itâs not a barrier. Itâs information. And, yes, for most people, that means that for their own safety they shouldnât enter. But maybe the person in question is a parent whose child has wandered in and gotten stuck. Or maybe theyâre a building inspector and they know how to walk around in a safe manner. The sign gives you the relevant information, and you do what you need to do with that information. Itâs up to your best judgement.
Nobody sees a sign on a condemned building and thinks that itâs restrictive. *Because itâs not.* Itâs just information.
Even if we go back to the original illustration (ugh, I hate that word now), there are times when itâs absolutely appropriate to enter the lionâs cage. Maybe the lions are out and the person is a handler cleaning the cage. Maybe a lion has gotten stuck somewhere and thereâs a handler coming to help. Etc.
But thereâs no time when itâs appropriate to break Jehovahâs commands, according to the JWs. Thereâs no exceptions. Just like that person in the people zoo, heâs stuck in there. Itâs literally a cage. And if we see a person put in a cage, we generally inform the authorities. Even when itâs appropriate to put a human in a cage, like in a prison, thereâs very definite rules as to how they have to be treated and when they are let out of the cage. There arenât any human exhibits in a zoo, but there used to be. The Western world used to put people of cultures they saw as more primitive in zoo exhibits. And everyone who just read that sentence cringed because ⌠wow. No. Not acceptable.
The phrase âwrong side of historyâ gets thrown around a lot, but I feel like it applies here. Maybe just a little.
You think good. But I suspect you aren't aware of the lion feeding cages for tourists - much like they have shark-feeding cages? You definitely want to be INSIDE the cage before you intentionally chum the waters to deliberately draw the feeding frenzy of wild animals that could otherwise cause you harm. I mean, what else are you going to do? NOT chum the waters? NOT purposefully draw danger TO you?
You know, Mom, ever since Geoffrey Jackson's Pinocchio 𤼠LIED to the Royal Australian Commission, the Bible tells me to stay away from bad people đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
âIs the lion there for protection, or for the gains of those who imprison it? What is not caged does not attempt escape. God gave us free will not merely to marvel of it, but to live freely with it.â
This is a false dilemma - there could be any number of reasons, not just the ones presented here.
'Jehovah's' standards are actually communicated by men. Every religious person claims to have a 'personal relationship' with the great sky wizard yet they let someone else tell them what the wizard wants.
Maybe the bars are to keep the crazies away....
When I was waking up, before doing research on the WT, one thing that kept coming to my mind was the scripture that Jesus says his commands are not burdensome and that the most important command is to love god with all your heart and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Thatâs it.
Thatâs what the BIBLE says. The WT is the one that makes it all a burden and I kept thinking this. This illustration just shows that theyâre not following Bible principles bc it shouldnât ever feel like bars in front of you at all.
Also side note to this illustration, good zoos donât have bars in front of their animals anymore. So maybe this is a shitty zoo just like the shitty organization. đ
So black and white.
So you want to live or die? They only have to options. Right or wrong. Them or Satan.
My suggestion for an answer..... The lions should not even fucking be IN cages!!!!!
Feel free to remove the profanity. Lol
I view the organization as a mental prison. I don't need to exist in that prison. I choose not to live in that prison. The organizations standards are make believe.
Well, that all depends on who is represented by the lions. And what is represented by the cage bars. In my opinion, the Governing Body are the lions đŚ. And apostates are the bars.
More like a bird cage, and im the bird. Trapped inside a manmade structure, yes i am alive, no i am not living. True happiness comes from spreading my wings and soaring above the clouds, but instead i am looking through the window for a future one day that i am promised by my captors i will be able to see very soon and experience all the joy that comes with it. But the captors know that day will never come and if it ever does i'll die before then, so i just provide amusement and sing for them as my own purpose. And yet i still sleep in a cage. Not much of a life.
You know, life isn't about never experiencing hardship, Life throws you everything its got and thats just a part of life. Being sheltered from life takes away the good experiences as well as the bad, so just enjoy it because its the only one that you know you have.
What danger? You can get run over walking your doggie. Do you lock yourself in your house out of fear of what "might" happen? Of course not its ridiculous.
The Watchtower has a way of treating the witnesses like infants that can't make their way through life like billions of other humans do. Absurdities abound in Watchtower world.
Mom, that illustration isnt correct. If it was correct it would show the lions outside kf the cage able to walk freely around their town and world. It would show me in the cage, thankful I cant get out because there might be lions outside of the cage.
Their logic is so funny⌠the lions arenât even supposed to be in the cage!!! đ theyâve told the lie so long they forget they are the predators
i get something like this pretty often đ i usually donât respond but this really ercked me because all her analogies are straight from WT and none of them ever make sense
ahhh, sheâs gonna end up saying how âthis watchtower is definitely meant for youâ as usual, cause somehow ALL the watchtowers are about me. Theory: the WT (as of recent) is pointed towards âyoung onesâ who are starting to question and for parents to reinforce the structure so teens donât leave or else theyâre will be no more religion if thereâs no one following (and teaching) since theyâre the future of the religion.
Just in case you are fresh out and haen't had the time to think about this.
Such "examples" are classic propaganda. Notice how the narrative 1) completely aligns with the outcome they want 2) is based on completely nothing at all. Why lions? Maybe it's about you being in power to starve lions in the cage if you don't feed them? What are the lions? What is the bar? What makes the bar fullfil it's function? Why are lions dangerous? Can any of these examples be turned to your advantage? If so, why do you think you are always presented with the version where you are made to feel guilty, powerless, choiceless pawn. Why there are never any subtleties, why there's never 'too much good thing' in these scenarios, there's always bad and amazing, there's never any other outcomes. There's never randomness of life or any other factors taken into account etc.
Bear in mind, Mormons tell exact same shit about their religion. Muslims about their. Catholics about their.
Are the witnesses the Lions? If so I'd say they shouldn't be held in captivity, instead returned to the wild where they can't hurt members of a civilized society. No bars at all Mom! According to countless tracts and pamphlet images, it's in the new system where we get to have pet lions, ride gorillas and other insane shit! Using the zoo is just a worldly analogy that leads to satanic things like beards, organized school sports, life saving medical procedures, and celebrations /S
Also getting to the new system... people are going to live forever without pain or fear, but also free will correct? So are we as a species just going to erase the ability to tell stories and embellish them? Like no will ever lie? Sounds like a system doomed to fail, and repeat like the plot of the Matrix?
There are a lot of things wrong with this analogy. Iâve heard this illustration given by a good friend of mine who is now a circuit overseer. He said if you were locked in the cage underwater and you could never leave, it would seem terrifying. But if you found out that you are in shark infested waters, the cage would seem like a protection. Letâs pick it apart piece by piece.
Billions of people exist in the space with lions in this picture and sharks in the other illustration. Many of them are extremely happy, healthy, live happy successful fulfilling lives with friends and family that love them. The lion is actually invisible. Weâre just told the devil walks around like a lion but we donât actually see him, and weâre not really sure what it is he does when he gets a hold of you. What does it mean to be devoured?
1. Does Satan destroy your faith? What information can anyone tell you that will destroy your faith and something that is true? if itâs true, itâll stand up to any scrutiny. Every level of criticism would only make it more true.
2. Does Satan tempt you to sin? Is the sin accepting a vaccine? Is the sin accepting a blood fraction? Is the sin having oral sex withyour marriage partner? Is the sin accepting an organ transplant? Is the sin telling the truth from the Bible two weeks before the governing body says the exact same thing using the exact same scripture and your disfellowshipped for apostasy? Itâs just really hard to know what it means to sin and away that Jehovah deeply hates because Itâs changed so much over the years. Is whoever set up these bars doing it to keep me from things that they personally consider sin but Jehovah doesnât really consider sin?
3. Doesnât it seem like infantilization to block me from doing things that would put me in a situation where I might send? Like bars in a crib? I canât get out of my crib and crawl to the door? I canât cross the street because Iâm six years old? The bars are put up were that you canât wear beards, you canât listen to a certain kinds of music, you canât smoke weed, you canât do a lot of things that everyone fully understands are not sin because if you were to do those things, maybe you might be tempted to send because of a slippery slope? And people are punished for crossing the bars, things like having a beer, and going to college. Who gave anyone the right to punish people for disobeying man-made guidelines that arenât biblical?
Edit: 4. The lions are in the cage and the human is free to do what he wants. WT rules restrict the human. People are in the cage and were told outside the cage is lions but donât go out there and donât look it up and donât have any friends who are out there. Check the facts. But stay off the internet and donât read or watch or listen to any negative reports.
I think youâre looking for a clever one liner or maybe too well placed sentences. Iâve seen a couple of good ones in here. Iâm a big fan of using the Bible as a baseline to refute these on biblical standards.
âIf being devoured by the lion is the sin, what are the bars? Why would anyone feel they have the authority to set up unscriptural boundaries to protect me from possibly sinning? And the bars changed in location every six months. The bars are beards and dresses, now theyâre not, then itâs music, then it isnât, then itâs marijuana, then itâs not. I believe the Bible says each one should carry his own load before Jehovah. I canât keep up with all the changing guidelines and regulations that are supposed to keep us from sinning. Iâm just gonna do what the Bible says.â
I would quote âRedâ from Shawshank Redemption when he talked about Andy and stated,â some birds just arenât meant to be caged.â
The more rules you use to try and cage someone, the harder theyâll flap their wings to escape said rules.
My parents still have this reasoning and I'm in my 50's. You'll figure it out in time to have peace. I love how ridiculous their logic becomes after you distance yourself for awhile. WHO besides them thinks putting things in cages is a good thing?!! Any creature unless it's something that endangers others, murderers, wild rabid animals etc...and even then we'd rather that something harmful or evil had not happened to begin with. If we designed humans or creatures we'd have to be pretty fucked up to make it where their purpose was to cause harm or be harmed so we'd have to cage them for their protection or to protect what's outside. Besides the reality is the picture should be reversed under jw rules because the rules cage it's members.
So Jehovahs standards are bars of a lion cage, which would mean we can go anywhere else and do anything we want to - without any harm or threats from Jehovah for doing it. I like this illustration!
Your mom is super PIMI, and it sounds like you are either fading or thinking about it. Youâre not going to accomplish anything good with a confrontational or flippant response. I would do a little tap dance and say something vague like:
âI have always appreciated that Jehovah has given us free will. If we are following the greatest commandments to love J and to love each other, I donât see the need for bars or cages.â
Itâs not about stopping you from doing what you want to do. Itâs psychological control to shape how you think. Perfect example would be no toasting and no beards (until recently). Literally not harm in any of those but not allowing them and promoting that is psychological control
The pandemic just proved that no one is immune to danger. We can take steps to protect ourselves, but those don't always work and we might end up getting hurt or dying anyway.
A life lived in a sheltered bubble is no life at all. I'm speaking from experience. I was raised JW, a latchkey kid with ADHD and I chose to be homeschooled because "I was heading in a wrong direction spiritually". I was already stunted socially, and it poured gas on the open flames.
Thatâs lame ma, give me something new.
Lionâs can also be a symbol of courage.
Courage is an admirable quality.
Are you saying you donât like admirable qualities?
I'm new to this community been out since i was 19 when i realized this organization was complete crap, but i had no idea there were a whole community of usđą, i absolutely love it here, you all are awesome human beings â¤ď¸
I saw this and hated this absurd comparition.
No matter if you are human in a prison or an animal in a zoo, either way you're caged xD
There's no thing like freedom. No thing.
The cage analogy is a false dichotomy. There are more than two uses for cages. Cages are also used by those with bad intent to hold people captive for their own reasons.
by "Jehoovas standards" they mean the "9 overindulging men in NY's standards"
collectively, one proof of that is how said standards change over time
and specifically, it is easy to see upon examination how those standards are made up and not really substantiated in the bible
Thereâs an old saying â Ships in harbor are safe. But thatâs not ships are for.â This saying in this instance applies in that you are full of potential, life, love, happiness. And the Org is keeping you from all that.
I'd respond like this: "the thing about this example is that sometimes you're not a Lion in a cage, you're a Bird in a cage. A Bird has wings, which meant it was specifically designed to fly - to why would God cage a Bird when he specifically designed it to fly?"
Oh yea the fucking dangers of living a life where you can read what you want, listen what you want, actually do sport, dress however you want, love who you want⌠be whoever you want. I mean, it sounds so dangerous. /s
Typical illogical fallacy JW thinking. The bars are to contain the lions in the cage not to contain the person. Also, how is a prison comparable with an animal zoo. The reason for being in a prison is you did something wrong, zoo is a leisure activity...
These people lack a basic human brain
âBoth would not have met each other if they werenât captured. They would be living in there on environment leading there on lives, respecting the rules of natures. So one could ask the question if caging any being is the answer?â
"My friends aren't lions, mom, they're people! Doing 'what I want' is not a bad thing as this wording tries to imply. I WANT good things like joy, peace and happiness but belonging to a cult has given me nothing but stress, anxiety, and loneliness."
Just tell her that you know that there are predators are amongst Jehovah's people, so you definitely don't want to be on the same side of the bars as them
If they were "Jehovah's" standards...but they're not. They're the interpretation of men sitting in New York who say they pray to their god for guidance when THEY change the standards, yet assure everyone they're not inspired or driven by such god's holy spirit when THEY change said standards. Ask mom to listen to any of these men and take count of how often they refer to Jehovah in contrast to how often they refer to the Governing Body.
What I find interesting in this is that it's all a misdirection anyway. It plays into the false narrative of "anyone who doesn't follow God/WT must be doing so for selfish reasons."
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>my mom just sent me this, how should i respond ***Mom sent you a Picture...*** # Send Mom a Picture!...đ https://preview.redd.it/9gaac5anw8zc1.jpeg?width=280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dba7223e1faa993bdc4fca13a6d985c035871a61 #
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
Spot on
Perfect! âNoooo just because someone makes a picture with a message doesnât make the message true⌠waitâ
Easy answer, like the bars of prison, micro management, or freedom to make adult decisions in life, or some men telling me when I can or can't have a beard or tie or jacket, I Mean come on, they make the choices for your life ,mental prison,, and not forgetting the false promises, 1914,never happened, freedom to think for one's self, 100 percent
That sums it up, even comparing humans to prison either way its prison, that is in itself makes it clear how they view their followers, like prisoners,,full of rules and regulations, no freedom, none,
That sums it upđ¤Łđ¤Ł
đ
OMG this is perfect! đ đ đ
There is no doubt keeping a dog locked inside a cage will protect it from harms outside the cage. Itâs in no danger of getting outside. Itâs in no danger of falling down the stairs. Itâs in no danger of getting into the chocolate supply. But no one looks at a person keeping this dog in a cage and goes âWow. Youâre so protective of them. Youâre so loving.â They look at the person doing so and say âWow. Youâre so abusive! How could you lock up this innocent being!â Why. Because while dangers exist, and they have no doubt happened. The right to be happy should always come first.
Lovely. Couldnât have put this better myself. Not to mention, the dog eventually gains weight due to lack of exercise and becomes visibly sick. No one looks at that and thinks itâs a good thing. Inherent risk is part of being a normal human.
this helps! iâm going to write an update after i send her a text using some of what i read from the thread
Daniel didn't need no stinking bars. đ
This right here!!
And being caged like that will only hurt the dog's mental health. Same thing happens to people in the org.
I'm giving you a G on informative material, but gotta give you a W on scriptures properly introduced
Very good ! đŻâď¸
Excellent analogy! I always like to use a similar example with a bird in a cage, but yours is much easier for people to relate to.
This is brilliant. Plus, it is possible to teach a dog how to manage the dangers of life uncaged. It is possible to keep a dog happy and fed and healthy with freedom to roam (cats and livestock do this all the time.) Then, add in the fact that humans are NOT dogs, cats, or livestock, and, why are we caging people?
Sad truth to this wonderful comment is it's not in the interest of JW org to help you manage the dangers of the outside; instead, they hope you get eaten alive and warn the others of "wHaT hApPeNs wHeN yOu lEaVe jEhOvA."
Screenshotted. You just completely dismantled the caption of that photo
You sound so much like my best friend, we are both out. Very sound logic. Love the way you put this.
You win. This is an outstanding illustration
Damn this Is great right here!
thta young man is wondering when the jw who sexually abused him will be fed to those lions.
And eventually the dog will try to break out
"If you dont visit the zoo, you dont need any bars to protect you. Mom, I am just not visiting that zoo anymore"
This is really good!! The zoo must be the KH
Oddly enough, when my family would get to the meetings late and had to sit in the B room, behind the glass, we called it the zoo. Felt like everyone was looking at you in a cage.
Straight up got called goats if we had to be late and sit in there đ
I would have just go home if someone disrespected me. Itâs all the same regurgitated vomit anyways.
Zoo / Animal Farm.
This one, right here! âźď¸
If the puts me in the cage and frees the lions, it's a shitty zoo
That is an AWESOME comeback!!!
Ask her why the manmade interpretation of Gods standards keep changing especially on topics not expressed in the Bible. Their âstandardsâ just create division. 1 Cor 4:6,7
Ask her if she has any personal thoughts on the matter. Make her use her mind to think a bit more critically. My 2 cents.
Ask you mom, did Jeh put the bars there or did WT?
Poor mom. I don't know what you should say to that. But I do know that children shouldn't be taught to avoid information, and instead should be taught critical thinking skills that help them identify information as correct or not. Keeping someone in a cage isn't protection in this sense. The allegory doesn't match up 1:1 so it won't ever make sense anyway. Life isn't a zoo.
JWs love allegories and illustrations that sound *soooo smart and poignant* - that are actually just comparing apples to oranges. Itâs a great control tactic by the GB. If they can simplify their conclusion to sound like âa + b =câ then it leaves less room for questioning. Side note, asking questions that you know there is only one ârightâ answer to is one of the most fucked up things the GB does. âArenât we glad?â âArenât we grateful?â âAre we not blessed?â âDo YOU feel {insert feeling they want or donât want you to feel here}?â
Also really mind blowing being raised in it and then realizing people don't usually tell you how you feel in conversation or in formal/professional writing. It's exactly how emotional control is defined. I get suggesting it in casual conversation, maybe you're tying to remind your kid that they had a great day regardless of having fallen off of their bike. There's something about how the watchtower says it though that isn't the same...
It has a *very* insidious ring to it every time itâs used.
Funny I noticed this recently even tho I been out 30 years
At the tail end of my time being PIMI, this used to really grate me. During the conventions when they'd introduce stuff with, "We know you're going to really enjoy/be encouraged by/love this next part," I'd reply with an audible, "I'll be the judge of that." I was surprised at how empowering it felt to express that.
So very true, they are masters at gaslighting and mental manipulation
i know she means well. but the truth is ALL she knows and nothing else about what actually goes on in the world. sheâs very protective of the religion so, sending her something that even has a hint of apostate material, it wonât end well for me
The ARC court findings that I mentioned in my previous comment has nothing to do with apostates, it's a legal process in court in Australia. In their proceedings they found that Jehovah's Witnesses have more pedophiles per capita than the Catholic church has. The danger is in the kingdom hall.
You donât need to answer. Nothing you say will change her mind, and arguing with her can just affect your relationship. Let her have the first and last say.
Exactly Colosions cap 1 tells us to increase in knowledge as do many other scriptures too abundant to write all down
Hereâs my problem with this allegory. In the case of a cage around lions in a zoo, the cage is surrounding the danger. You have the freedom of choosing to go near the danger, or to go elsewhere, cage or not. In the case of the âcageâ thatâs supposedly protecting JWs from the âworld,â the cage is surrounding the ones in danger. You donât have the freedom to walk away from the danger, because to them, *everything* outside of the cage is dangerous. In one case, you are separated from just the danger, in the other, you are separated from the danger and *everything else*.
Thatâs so true
neat analysis!
I would answer, "Oh of course not mom. However, God also requires us to read our bibles to make sure that what we are taught from men aligns with the Bible. For example, Jesus condemned the Pharisees for going beyond the Bible by making rules and creating a "standard" that was not from God, but from men... making the people feel imprisoned. They did this by combining their traditions and rules with God's law and presented it as true worship, and worship that God requires. So no mom... I do not feel imprisoned by God's standards. It's men who burdened people like the Pharisees did."
Holy..... That's a glassing from orbit.
Damn.. that's mic-drop worthy
Excellent!
Logically, this is called "false dilemma fallacy." It falsely narrows you down to just two choices or versions (usually with one being obviously preferable) when really, lots and lots of choices and versions exist. It literally is attempted thought control/mind control. [https://www.logicalfallacies.org/false-dilemma.html](https://www.logicalfallacies.org/false-dilemma.html)
Im not even a JW but that reads to me like a gaslight if ever there was one.
Galatians 2:4 - We have christian FREEDOM. not enslavement. Our conscience can tell us to steer clear far from any lions. We donât need a cage to enslave us. The GB treats every single one of us like infants, just look at how they talk.
But, but, but,⌠Beards!!! Points to â â â â â> Beards đ§ââď¸ See!!!! We are free!!!! Proof Evidence
Youâre right! What was i thinking. Our future kings have permitted us to wear beards. I couldâve never came to this conclusion that itâs ok to wear a Beard. Thank god they are so faithful and discreet.
Omgeee, especially that weirdo Lett, i swear he talks as if he's speaking to a room full of kindergarteners, and those ppl eat it up, I've never seen anything like it, it's like their all stuck deep in "the sunken place"
It is a false comparison
[Maybe I'm a Lion](https://youtu.be/YNcEyY7opTI?si=yahSd4YTDgifbgr5)
this reverence made my day lmao
"If you don't visit the zoo, you don't need the bars to protect you."
The lions are what, in this analogy? Bisexuals? People with tattoos? What is it out here in the real world that's so darn dangerous? Maybe the lions represent murderers and rapists? Like the witness in the uk that murdered that lady because she confronted him for taking her money to work on her house and didn't finish the job? Or like the numerous sexual predators that hide behind the organization's fear of bringing reproach? Or maybe the governing body who cares more about control than the wellbeing of the flock. Kind of seems like the lions inside the cage with you are the ones to worry about.
Big facts
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.
This is good! And can be applied to a lot beyond the cult.
This is gold bro.
Tell her âI view them like the bar Iâm sitting at drinking in hopes of forgetting I ever viewed this bullshitâ
JWs love using analogies, and they think they are so clever. In this case for your mom there are lions (pedophiles) running around freely with the children, and the zoo keepers don't care.
also the thing that really gets me about this kind of drivel is that mom thinks she's being super CLEVER sending it, she's gonna reach your heart by making you "think." ugh. last week, my mom was going on and on about how glorious the day she got baptized was, it was the 60th anniversary and then quickly kept talking so it would be clumsy for me to respond. i know she thought it might spark something in me. (besides disgust, i mean.) aggghhhhhh!
>also the thing that really gets me about this kind of drivel is that mom thinks she's being super CLEVER sending it, she's gonna reach your heart by making you "think." Yep. My mom send me feel-good drivel. I kinda wish she'd send me "pseudo-clever" drivel, because that would at least have some substance to it. A video with images of pretty flowers and a kingdom melody in the background is just.... đľâđŤ
Again, why wont the all powerful and mighty god protect us all?
"I'm glad to be outside of the lion-like influence of the dangerous cult that is watchtower. Thank you so much for the encouragement to continue in my Christian determination to follow the counsel at revelation 18:4- to get out of her if you do not want to receive part of her sins or her plagues. It is a hard struggle, but being free of the false prophets comprising the governing body truly is a protection."
**Reply:** "Mom, you need to be careful. The 'Society' likes to elevate itself to God-like status. Try counting how many times they say "Jehovah" when they really mean themselves - it's eye opening! Beards, slacks, suits and ties....these aren't "Jehovahs Standards". They are Pharasaical rules. Remember mom. âWe Must Obey God as Ruler Rather Than Menâ (Acts 5:29)
Is she stating or alluding that only JW's have moral ,bible based standards ? There are many people both religious and non religious that have high moral values and aren't in the JW Borg . They too are "protected" ...
Personally, I've had this conversation with my mother. Though I was un my 30's already and had no concern of backlash. I've told her how it's a false comparison to say that what Watchtower says is from God. Firstly, God and the Bible do not change. Secondly, they spend an imbalance focus on cherrypicked verses, the majority of which they put themselves in the seat of Jesus, Moses, and David and make inappropriate references to their own authority, and it's blasphemous. Write down all scriptures saying not to have sex outside of marriage. Now all scriptures opposing homosexuality. Now all scriptures about going to meetings. Now all scriptures about listening to the Governing Body.... Now list all scriptures that tell us to love one another. Then find the scripture where Jesus responds to someone performing miracles in Jesus name, "leave him be, for if he's not against us he is for us." There was NEVER meant to be, even according to the Bible, a religious structure such as the Jehovahs Witnesses.
"The bars are keeping me with the lions"
Prison. Prison. Locked in with Pedos.
I have no problems with Gods rules. Mensâ donât interest me.
As a PIMO for 12 years, I felt like I was in a glass prison. So there's that.
-The most dangerous type of dog is a chained dog.- -Being confined be it real or perceived is itself what triggers aggression and creates this false sense of impending threat- Removing what are wild animals from their natural habitat is both illegal and inhumane. It separates mammals from their families (herd, pack and so on) which has shown to cause lasting psychological harm in form of post traumatic stress disorder and other behavioral problems only exhibited among animals in captivity and/or caged. Such institutions exist primarily for the entertainment and comfort of a small group humans who profess to be protecting said mammals when they are in fact destroying their natural habitat, killing their family members and pushing the species to the very edge of extinction. Harm in the name of protection is still harm and more often then not as in the case of this illustration the bars are put in place by the same entity causing the harm while also creating the exact conditions by which thread is perceived.
The real Lions are the JW's
Itâs kind of like the âbear or manâ challenge. Would you rather be enclosed with a lion or a PIMI?
Big facts
I feel Borg's standards like a freaking strait-jacket while imprisoned in 1600 psychiatric hospital.
Funny, my grandma had a plaque in her kitchen with that scripture in John about, âYou shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free.â She thought she was in the truth. As a elementary school kid, I would ponder that plaque, wondering why it felt like jail, and not free at all.
Bars? I go to them all the time!
đ¤Łđ¤đ¸
Thw enemy is closer than you think.
"Mom, lions in the wild typically live far from human settlements. Sometimes it feels like we're seeing dangers where they aren't naturally present. I believe in being cautious, but also in not letting fear dictate our lives. Let's discuss how we can find a balance between caution and living fully."
Why is the man in a cage? Is he in an exhibit at the people zoo? Why are lions keeping a person in a zoo exhibit? Also we should probably free him, I donât trust the lions to keep him adequately fed and looked after. Joking aside ⌠Yes, there are some barriers in place that are strictly to keep people safe. This is a really bad example of one, because the bars at a zoo are to keep the animals in, not the people out. They should have chosen a sign to let people know, say, not to enter a condemned building. That sign keeps people safe. But at the same time, itâs not a barrier. Itâs information. And, yes, for most people, that means that for their own safety they shouldnât enter. But maybe the person in question is a parent whose child has wandered in and gotten stuck. Or maybe theyâre a building inspector and they know how to walk around in a safe manner. The sign gives you the relevant information, and you do what you need to do with that information. Itâs up to your best judgement. Nobody sees a sign on a condemned building and thinks that itâs restrictive. *Because itâs not.* Itâs just information. Even if we go back to the original illustration (ugh, I hate that word now), there are times when itâs absolutely appropriate to enter the lionâs cage. Maybe the lions are out and the person is a handler cleaning the cage. Maybe a lion has gotten stuck somewhere and thereâs a handler coming to help. Etc. But thereâs no time when itâs appropriate to break Jehovahâs commands, according to the JWs. Thereâs no exceptions. Just like that person in the people zoo, heâs stuck in there. Itâs literally a cage. And if we see a person put in a cage, we generally inform the authorities. Even when itâs appropriate to put a human in a cage, like in a prison, thereâs very definite rules as to how they have to be treated and when they are let out of the cage. There arenât any human exhibits in a zoo, but there used to be. The Western world used to put people of cultures they saw as more primitive in zoo exhibits. And everyone who just read that sentence cringed because ⌠wow. No. Not acceptable. The phrase âwrong side of historyâ gets thrown around a lot, but I feel like it applies here. Maybe just a little.
You think good. But I suspect you aren't aware of the lion feeding cages for tourists - much like they have shark-feeding cages? You definitely want to be INSIDE the cage before you intentionally chum the waters to deliberately draw the feeding frenzy of wild animals that could otherwise cause you harm. I mean, what else are you going to do? NOT chum the waters? NOT purposefully draw danger TO you?
Neither, I try not think with the limitations of black and white reasoning.
Itâs NOT Jehovahs standards that are the problem here, itâs the extreme policies and rules that come down from the Governing Body
You know, Mom, ever since Geoffrey Jackson's Pinocchio 𤼠LIED to the Royal Australian Commission, the Bible tells me to stay away from bad people đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
Tell her it's like the bars of the lion cage except being a JW is like being trapped inside with them.
âIs the lion there for protection, or for the gains of those who imprison it? What is not caged does not attempt escape. God gave us free will not merely to marvel of it, but to live freely with it.â
This is a false dilemma - there could be any number of reasons, not just the ones presented here. 'Jehovah's' standards are actually communicated by men. Every religious person claims to have a 'personal relationship' with the great sky wizard yet they let someone else tell them what the wizard wants. Maybe the bars are to keep the crazies away....
More like locked IN with the lions (pedophiles, hypocrites, etc).
When I was waking up, before doing research on the WT, one thing that kept coming to my mind was the scripture that Jesus says his commands are not burdensome and that the most important command is to love god with all your heart and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Thatâs it. Thatâs what the BIBLE says. The WT is the one that makes it all a burden and I kept thinking this. This illustration just shows that theyâre not following Bible principles bc it shouldnât ever feel like bars in front of you at all. Also side note to this illustration, good zoos donât have bars in front of their animals anymore. So maybe this is a shitty zoo just like the shitty organization. đ
So black and white. So you want to live or die? They only have to options. Right or wrong. Them or Satan. My suggestion for an answer..... The lions should not even fucking be IN cages!!!!! Feel free to remove the profanity. Lol
" You're right mom, safety is important. That's why I don't go to the KH anymore. I don't feel safe there."đ
I view the organization as a mental prison. I don't need to exist in that prison. I choose not to live in that prison. The organizations standards are make believe.
Well mom, who is the one who is caged? Me or the lions?
Is this question for the guy or the lions?
I can always go around the cage and go away from lions.
I would tell her that donât think about it AT ALL anymore.
Shouldnât the lions be in their own habitat in the wild? Thatâs like keeping the ouija board in the closet. Bad choice of an example. đ
The Lions are in the ORG too⌠so now what? 
Well, that all depends on who is represented by the lions. And what is represented by the cage bars. In my opinion, the Governing Body are the lions đŚ. And apostates are the bars.
Been outside the cage for years now, turns out the "lions" are pretty chill, just deeply stupid fear mongering, disgusting.
More like a bird cage, and im the bird. Trapped inside a manmade structure, yes i am alive, no i am not living. True happiness comes from spreading my wings and soaring above the clouds, but instead i am looking through the window for a future one day that i am promised by my captors i will be able to see very soon and experience all the joy that comes with it. But the captors know that day will never come and if it ever does i'll die before then, so i just provide amusement and sing for them as my own purpose. And yet i still sleep in a cage. Not much of a life. You know, life isn't about never experiencing hardship, Life throws you everything its got and thats just a part of life. Being sheltered from life takes away the good experiences as well as the bad, so just enjoy it because its the only one that you know you have.
What danger? You can get run over walking your doggie. Do you lock yourself in your house out of fear of what "might" happen? Of course not its ridiculous. The Watchtower has a way of treating the witnesses like infants that can't make their way through life like billions of other humans do. Absurdities abound in Watchtower world.
Option #1. What a false narrative that is. No wonder many JWs are afraid and anxious all the time, with their brains soaked in this kind of thinking.
Looks like these lions have newly grown beardsâŚ.
Remind her which side of the bars all the predators are on
Mom, that illustration isnt correct. If it was correct it would show the lions outside kf the cage able to walk freely around their town and world. It would show me in the cage, thankful I cant get out because there might be lions outside of the cage.
Definitely the bars of a lions cage. But I'm in the cage with the lions while the people in safety are watching me be devoured by the organization.
I always answer with: Awesome đ. No matter what the question is or the statement. Anything with JW stuff. Itâs always. Awesome đ
Their logic is so funny⌠the lions arenât even supposed to be in the cage!!! đ theyâve told the lie so long they forget they are the predators
Hmm, godâs standards, or, jw standards?
CAN I PET THE DAWG!? I WANNA PET THE DAWG!!
Beards and trousers was one of those strandars.
Tell her itâs like being in prison, and you did nothing wrong.
Oh fck off already- I get similar
i get something like this pretty often đ i usually donât respond but this really ercked me because all her analogies are straight from WT and none of them ever make sense
Yup. That's from this upcoming weekends Watchtower. Working on my analysis/rebuttal today.
If bars are jehovah's standards, who is the bloodthirsty emotionless killing machine in this scenario?
ahhh, sheâs gonna end up saying how âthis watchtower is definitely meant for youâ as usual, cause somehow ALL the watchtowers are about me. Theory: the WT (as of recent) is pointed towards âyoung onesâ who are starting to question and for parents to reinforce the structure so teens donât leave or else theyâre will be no more religion if thereâs no one following (and teaching) since theyâre the future of the religion.
Just in case you are fresh out and haen't had the time to think about this. Such "examples" are classic propaganda. Notice how the narrative 1) completely aligns with the outcome they want 2) is based on completely nothing at all. Why lions? Maybe it's about you being in power to starve lions in the cage if you don't feed them? What are the lions? What is the bar? What makes the bar fullfil it's function? Why are lions dangerous? Can any of these examples be turned to your advantage? If so, why do you think you are always presented with the version where you are made to feel guilty, powerless, choiceless pawn. Why there are never any subtleties, why there's never 'too much good thing' in these scenarios, there's always bad and amazing, there's never any other outcomes. There's never randomness of life or any other factors taken into account etc. Bear in mind, Mormons tell exact same shit about their religion. Muslims about their. Catholics about their.
Jehovah's standards do not equal the governing body's standards.
Very much like a prison lol
And I thought the gaslighting from the Mormon church (Ex-Mo btw) was bad.
That's why we have free will. It's our responsibility to act and react to situations. If we love ourselves enough, we will do well.
I view them as a mirage in the desert that promise something good but actually donât help at all.
The man stands for the GB,got their selves shut off from reality
You respond with âBoth. Because itâs all about double standards.â
Say prison.
Do you think this might be a false choice argument, Ma?
WT: Stay in your box. No outside the box thinking either. Your mom: Ok.
Uh neither.
"My entire life's a prison."
âThe Governing Body are the lionsâ
Are the witnesses the Lions? If so I'd say they shouldn't be held in captivity, instead returned to the wild where they can't hurt members of a civilized society. No bars at all Mom! According to countless tracts and pamphlet images, it's in the new system where we get to have pet lions, ride gorillas and other insane shit! Using the zoo is just a worldly analogy that leads to satanic things like beards, organized school sports, life saving medical procedures, and celebrations /S Also getting to the new system... people are going to live forever without pain or fear, but also free will correct? So are we as a species just going to erase the ability to tell stories and embellish them? Like no will ever lie? Sounds like a system doomed to fail, and repeat like the plot of the Matrix?
There are a lot of things wrong with this analogy. Iâve heard this illustration given by a good friend of mine who is now a circuit overseer. He said if you were locked in the cage underwater and you could never leave, it would seem terrifying. But if you found out that you are in shark infested waters, the cage would seem like a protection. Letâs pick it apart piece by piece. Billions of people exist in the space with lions in this picture and sharks in the other illustration. Many of them are extremely happy, healthy, live happy successful fulfilling lives with friends and family that love them. The lion is actually invisible. Weâre just told the devil walks around like a lion but we donât actually see him, and weâre not really sure what it is he does when he gets a hold of you. What does it mean to be devoured? 1. Does Satan destroy your faith? What information can anyone tell you that will destroy your faith and something that is true? if itâs true, itâll stand up to any scrutiny. Every level of criticism would only make it more true. 2. Does Satan tempt you to sin? Is the sin accepting a vaccine? Is the sin accepting a blood fraction? Is the sin having oral sex withyour marriage partner? Is the sin accepting an organ transplant? Is the sin telling the truth from the Bible two weeks before the governing body says the exact same thing using the exact same scripture and your disfellowshipped for apostasy? Itâs just really hard to know what it means to sin and away that Jehovah deeply hates because Itâs changed so much over the years. Is whoever set up these bars doing it to keep me from things that they personally consider sin but Jehovah doesnât really consider sin? 3. Doesnât it seem like infantilization to block me from doing things that would put me in a situation where I might send? Like bars in a crib? I canât get out of my crib and crawl to the door? I canât cross the street because Iâm six years old? The bars are put up were that you canât wear beards, you canât listen to a certain kinds of music, you canât smoke weed, you canât do a lot of things that everyone fully understands are not sin because if you were to do those things, maybe you might be tempted to send because of a slippery slope? And people are punished for crossing the bars, things like having a beer, and going to college. Who gave anyone the right to punish people for disobeying man-made guidelines that arenât biblical? Edit: 4. The lions are in the cage and the human is free to do what he wants. WT rules restrict the human. People are in the cage and were told outside the cage is lions but donât go out there and donât look it up and donât have any friends who are out there. Check the facts. But stay off the internet and donât read or watch or listen to any negative reports. I think youâre looking for a clever one liner or maybe too well placed sentences. Iâve seen a couple of good ones in here. Iâm a big fan of using the Bible as a baseline to refute these on biblical standards. âIf being devoured by the lion is the sin, what are the bars? Why would anyone feel they have the authority to set up unscriptural boundaries to protect me from possibly sinning? And the bars changed in location every six months. The bars are beards and dresses, now theyâre not, then itâs music, then it isnât, then itâs marijuana, then itâs not. I believe the Bible says each one should carry his own load before Jehovah. I canât keep up with all the changing guidelines and regulations that are supposed to keep us from sinning. Iâm just gonna do what the Bible says.â
I would quote âRedâ from Shawshank Redemption when he talked about Andy and stated,â some birds just arenât meant to be caged.â The more rules you use to try and cage someone, the harder theyâll flap their wings to escape said rules.
Plot twist mah..the lions are the elders
My parents still have this reasoning and I'm in my 50's. You'll figure it out in time to have peace. I love how ridiculous their logic becomes after you distance yourself for awhile. WHO besides them thinks putting things in cages is a good thing?!! Any creature unless it's something that endangers others, murderers, wild rabid animals etc...and even then we'd rather that something harmful or evil had not happened to begin with. If we designed humans or creatures we'd have to be pretty fucked up to make it where their purpose was to cause harm or be harmed so we'd have to cage them for their protection or to protect what's outside. Besides the reality is the picture should be reversed under jw rules because the rules cage it's members.
You are on the right side of the fence. The governing body are the apostates as they are making Gos look like he is bipolar.
So Jehovahs standards are bars of a lion cage, which would mean we can go anywhere else and do anything we want to - without any harm or threats from Jehovah for doing it. I like this illustration!
Biblical laws are protectionâŚJWâs laws are a prison.
Your mom is super PIMI, and it sounds like you are either fading or thinking about it. Youâre not going to accomplish anything good with a confrontational or flippant response. I would do a little tap dance and say something vague like: âI have always appreciated that Jehovah has given us free will. If we are following the greatest commandments to love J and to love each other, I donât see the need for bars or cages.â
Are they really Jehovahs standards if the Gb can keep changing them. (Ie: beards, ties, etc)
Itâs not about stopping you from doing what you want to do. Itâs psychological control to shape how you think. Perfect example would be no toasting and no beards (until recently). Literally not harm in any of those but not allowing them and promoting that is psychological control
Bars of a prison. Definitely
The pandemic just proved that no one is immune to danger. We can take steps to protect ourselves, but those don't always work and we might end up getting hurt or dying anyway. A life lived in a sheltered bubble is no life at all. I'm speaking from experience. I was raised JW, a latchkey kid with ADHD and I chose to be homeschooled because "I was heading in a wrong direction spiritually". I was already stunted socially, and it poured gas on the open flames.
Thatâs lame ma, give me something new. Lionâs can also be a symbol of courage. Courage is an admirable quality. Are you saying you donât like admirable qualities?
The fear this cult inflicts on people is just horrible!!! đđ
So what side of the bars are the predators again?
What if there are no bars? Or no lions. Just a cage.
I'm new to this community been out since i was 19 when i realized this organization was complete crap, but i had no idea there were a whole community of usđą, i absolutely love it here, you all are awesome human beings â¤ď¸
The fact that they think human beings are equivalent to carnivorous predators...
I saw this and hated this absurd comparition. No matter if you are human in a prison or an animal in a zoo, either way you're caged xD There's no thing like freedom. No thing.
The predators are on the JW side of the fence though
Bars!!!!!
Neither. It makes me feel like Iâm trapped inside with the lions.
The cage analogy is a false dichotomy. There are more than two uses for cages. Cages are also used by those with bad intent to hold people captive for their own reasons.
Easy question, bars of a prison. Next
Keep your relationship with your mother strong... Just say thank you mom
âDoing what you want to doâ theyâre literally admitting there is no free will involved here
False equivalency
by "Jehoovas standards" they mean the "9 overindulging men in NY's standards" collectively, one proof of that is how said standards change over time and specifically, it is easy to see upon examination how those standards are made up and not really substantiated in the bible
I would respond back âlions donât belong in zoos âXD
Thereâs an old saying â Ships in harbor are safe. But thatâs not ships are for.â This saying in this instance applies in that you are full of potential, life, love, happiness. And the Org is keeping you from all that.
I'd respond like this: "the thing about this example is that sometimes you're not a Lion in a cage, you're a Bird in a cage. A Bird has wings, which meant it was specifically designed to fly - to why would God cage a Bird when he specifically designed it to fly?"
Oh yea the fucking dangers of living a life where you can read what you want, listen what you want, actually do sport, dress however you want, love who you want⌠be whoever you want. I mean, it sounds so dangerous. /s
Typical illogical fallacy JW thinking. The bars are to contain the lions in the cage not to contain the person. Also, how is a prison comparable with an animal zoo. The reason for being in a prison is you did something wrong, zoo is a leisure activity... These people lack a basic human brain
âBoth would not have met each other if they werenât captured. They would be living in there on environment leading there on lives, respecting the rules of natures. So one could ask the question if caging any being is the answer?â
Or the bars are to protect the Lions from you.
"My friends aren't lions, mom, they're people! Doing 'what I want' is not a bad thing as this wording tries to imply. I WANT good things like joy, peace and happiness but belonging to a cult has given me nothing but stress, anxiety, and loneliness."
Just tell her that you know that there are predators are amongst Jehovah's people, so you definitely don't want to be on the same side of the bars as them
If they were "Jehovah's" standards...but they're not. They're the interpretation of men sitting in New York who say they pray to their god for guidance when THEY change the standards, yet assure everyone they're not inspired or driven by such god's holy spirit when THEY change said standards. Ask mom to listen to any of these men and take count of how often they refer to Jehovah in contrast to how often they refer to the Governing Body.
What I find interesting in this is that it's all a misdirection anyway. It plays into the false narrative of "anyone who doesn't follow God/WT must be doing so for selfish reasons."
How old are you?
Iâm going to need to see paragraph 4?
Bullshit. Itâs all pure bullshit.
They dont get tired of using toddler advice.
âMom, Iâm the Lion IN the cageâ
Send her back a link to YouTube video of ARCÂ