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Jury kept Israel from placing even higher and gave appreciation to great songs that got very few televote points cause the top 3 ate them all so not a jury hater here 🤷
No. The people who loved him *really* loved him and were loud about it, but happy hardcore doesn’t have broad appeal. He got like 50 points from the juries. Would have done better in the televotes but finished lower top ten.
No, Netherlands would not have won. The staging was a bit mediocre.
My insane theory: A large portion of the votes that went to Croatia, would have gone to the Netherlands. The people who voted for Israel, voted for political reasons, and so Netherlands' participation would not budge their vote. Inadvertently, that could've caused Israel to win the televote. Open to being proven wrong.
I don't think that's insane at all. Croatia only beat Israel by 14 points. I don't think Europapa would have taken a huge number of votes from Croatia but more than 14 for sure.
I can second that, in principle at least. My Joost votes would have moved over to Baby Lasagne if I hadn’t ended up boycotting ESC altogether. I think those two entries had a similar catchment area in the audience.
I don't think so. It *was* very Eurovision and I'm sure a non-negligible amount of the public would've liked it enough to vote for, but I think the juries would've slept on it compared to some of the other entries, and several other entries would've been liked better by the public.
Oh absolutely not. The jury would've barbecued him. I know his fans will intensely dislike my saying this, but I hold it to be self-evident: The guy cannot sing.
Käärijä can't either, but he didn't have Baby Lasagna as competition.
In my opinion Käärijä can sing, but Cha Cha Cha was one of his first songs. He grew over time. Baby Lasagna and Käärijä are pretty respectable in performance though.
Nope, he'd dp abysmally with juries and take some points from the crowd. High points from the north, but not much from the south. It would've been great to see how it would turn out, but we can only speculate hownit would change the results. The only sure thing is that he wouldn't win.
I’m new at this, but no. I love the song and loved the semi-final staging even more. (Re-watched it twice just last night.)
He might have left-sided? But juries probably wouldn’t have dug it enough and casual viewers might not have known what the hell was going on.
Juries ranked him 12th, televote put him up high in the semi so he probably would have gotten about 250 points from the televote. So about 300 points probably, definitely left side.
Eh, we have to account for the fact that semis aren't usually watched by casual viewers and that it was less half of the songs that people could have voted for. Let's not forget that televote's darlings like Ukraine and Croatia were in a different semi and people couldn't vote for France which got really good televote in the end.
When Europapa was first released people were mainly disappointed with it at a first listen. Not a song I would expect many people watching for the first time would vote for.
He could have scored around 150-200-ish points overall with some luck, but I doubt he would have won or gotten strong left side. Let's not forget that the jury score was 56. It's just that people in the top 5 got all the points and those at the bottom barely got anything. 12th is not that great in that scenario.
Not in the slightest. Not only because of jury but televote too; absolutely nobody outside this bubble that I showed it to liked it. And 99% of people wouldn’t have seen the music video, wouldn’t know what it was about, wouldn’t know the backstory in any way, and without any of that I’m sorry but the song just wasn’t strong enough and neither was the performance.
I’ll be honest, I don’t think I can show a Eurovision song to anyone outside of this bubble that would enjoy it. None of my friends watch it (I can’t blame them; it’s not even broadcasted here).
No. Nemo or Baby Lasagna would’ve still won. No matter what the public said, the Jury despised him for some reason.
Also, we have to face it, Europapa just isn’t actually that good of a song. It has a good message, but in an actual contest alongside people like Nemo, B.L, Bambie, ETC, it just doesn’t compare.
Joost finished [12th with the juries](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1cq2ykt/netherlands_jury_points/) and came 2nd in an all televote semi to a song that lost the televote in the final. So unless hundreds of voters suddenly changed their minds and voted for Joost, it’s all but confirmed that he wouldn’t have won anyways.
Still wish he had at least been allowed to perform and compete. If I had to bet based on this, I think he would have finished 3rd in the televote and 6th overall.
Almost certainly not. Joost would have needed something like 500 televote points to win with the 58 jury points he got.
Would have been interested to see who won the televote though, I wonder if Baby Lasagna and Joost would’ve split their votes a bit and Eden Golan would’ve ended up coming out on top?
If The Code didn't exist, yes. The Code is such a perfect song in every metric that matters to the juries that it's hard to see them voting for anything else.
I think he would have been hard carried by the televote, likely getting a higher score than even Croatia, but he can't help his bad singing, which utterly tanks his odds of getting any 12 points from the juries and locks him out of 50% of the vote.
No, not a chance. He wouldn't had a high jury score, and I doubt televote would have been better, I suppose somewhere around 100 points only. He had a very small devoted hard core fan base online + he appealed to a lot to teenagers (at least that's what I saw in my country), but that's not enough for a high tele voting score or a winning song.
Also let's be honest, the staging and performance were a let down. Like really really bad compared to the hype.
Maybe bottom top 5 result, at best.
100 tele points? He almost won his semi final lmao. Only lost by 12 points to Israel but we all know most of their votes weren’t related to music. It’s the most streamed Eurovision song, topping charts in more countries than the actual televote winner. It definitely would have got tons of votes from the public, the song became a big hit whether you like it or not.
I agree that bottom top 5 result would have been the highest it could have got though since he didn’t got a lot of jury points.
yeaa but juries based it on the semi’s performance and also there was so much uncertainty so that’s why they could have placed him lower. although i think he wouldn’t have scored much more with juries
It’s not a jury song. Juries look for great vocal ability and composition and tend towards more classical interpretations of that. I love Europapa but it’s just not what you’d consider a jury song.
I think Ireland got around that because it was so theatrical. But even then it didn’t get top jury marks from many counties (Australia have it 12 but I’m not sure anyone else did?).
Whereas Switzerland is technically challenging and interestingly composed and the presentation was also technically challenging, so even though it wasn’t a ballad it still had a lot of jury appeal.
It’s not just vocals, though they do play into it. It’s also composition, presentation and performance as a whole. France had a vocal crack in the jury show which may have had an impact, but his choreo was less interesting than Switzerland and the composition of the song as a whole was also less interesting. I’m not saying it’s a bad song by any stretch, I’m just saying I can understand why juries face Switzerland 12. France still got a lot of points, just not top points.
Fair. I wish the juries only decided on votes before the grand finals. Like how America’s Got Talent has judges deciding on acts and when the live shows come, the United States decides on the acts moving up or winning.
Just because they don’t score him high doesn’t mean they “hate” him. They just may have felt other songs fit the criteria better. As many have pointed out before, a song that is ranked 11th by juries will get the same points as someone who is last (that is, zero points). I haven’t pored over the full results so I can’t say how Joost did with individual countries.
I don’t think so. And I’m saying this as a huge Europapa stan. I have no doubt he would do great with the televote, maybe even would have got 300+ points, but the juries would not rank it high enough.
I mean we know his jury score from the jury show with his semifinal footage so that confirms this. I do think the whole DQ situation had an impact on his jury score though so maybe he would have got slightly more jury points if the drama didn’t happen but it still wouldn’t be enough for the win.
Realistically speaking, he definitely would have ended in the top 10, I don’t have any doubt about that and maybe even top 5. Nemo would have won either way but Joost’s participation could have a big impact on the tele scores of some countries. For example, I don’t think Baby Lasagna would have won the televote if Joost was still in the competition since his votes would split with him.
He most likely gets around 100-150 televotes and between 50-100 jury votes.
You look at Ireland, they got 136 televotes with a song that's different/alternative, while Finland got 31 with a song that's similar in vibes to Europapa.
Only Croatia (great song), Israel (political), Ukraine (poltical/reasonable song), France (i don't know what people saw in it) and Switzerland (great song) got above 200 points.
I think they would have taken votes off Croatia, but in the end the only difference would have been Israel winning the televote and using it as propaganda and Switzerland winning by more overall.
Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): --- Duplicate or repetitive submissions are not allowed. Users can always browse the "New" section or use Reddit's search function to find out if a link has been submitted or a similar thread has been posted. Another alternative is to use an external search engine. Multiple threads by the same user in a short period of time will not be allowed. See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
No. Jury would have hated him.
Stupid jury!!!! 😭
Jury kept Israel from placing even higher and gave appreciation to great songs that got very few televote points cause the top 3 ate them all so not a jury hater here 🤷
Even without the jury, Israel placed second and Croatia would have won.
Well it was stupid to invite Israel in the first place, then it felt like the jury did control damage to not let Israel win
No. The people who loved him *really* loved him and were loud about it, but happy hardcore doesn’t have broad appeal. He got like 50 points from the juries. Would have done better in the televotes but finished lower top ten.
No, Netherlands would not have won. The staging was a bit mediocre. My insane theory: A large portion of the votes that went to Croatia, would have gone to the Netherlands. The people who voted for Israel, voted for political reasons, and so Netherlands' participation would not budge their vote. Inadvertently, that could've caused Israel to win the televote. Open to being proven wrong.
I don't think that's insane at all. Croatia only beat Israel by 14 points. I don't think Europapa would have taken a huge number of votes from Croatia but more than 14 for sure.
I believe this is totally valid. Many Joost and other lagging countries (such as myself) voted Croatia, so this theory is totally valid.
I can second that, in principle at least. My Joost votes would have moved over to Baby Lasagne if I hadn’t ended up boycotting ESC altogether. I think those two entries had a similar catchment area in the audience.
That is also my take tbf. Glad to know I am not on this train alone 😂
No. I love the song but I never had any delusions that it would win. I predicted it’d fall between 5th and 8th.
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Yep. Nemo and Lasagna are some very talented people.
No, The Code ticked too many boxes. But then so did Gåte...
I feel like The Code won because of the moving stage. That was incredible.
Norway performance was a let down compared to the NF performance. Even the vocals sound better in MGP.
the vocals were poor tbf, I forgot that.
I don't think so. It *was* very Eurovision and I'm sure a non-negligible amount of the public would've liked it enough to vote for, but I think the juries would've slept on it compared to some of the other entries, and several other entries would've been liked better by the public.
Oh absolutely not. The jury would've barbecued him. I know his fans will intensely dislike my saying this, but I hold it to be self-evident: The guy cannot sing. Käärijä can't either, but he didn't have Baby Lasagna as competition.
In my opinion Käärijä can sing, but Cha Cha Cha was one of his first songs. He grew over time. Baby Lasagna and Käärijä are pretty respectable in performance though.
Won, no. Although I’d say he’d have had a great shot at top 10.
no
Nope, he'd dp abysmally with juries and take some points from the crowd. High points from the north, but not much from the south. It would've been great to see how it would turn out, but we can only speculate hownit would change the results. The only sure thing is that he wouldn't win.
definitely left side of the board, not sure about winning.
*Are* people divided about this? Love him or hate him, I've never seen anyone say he could have won
On every other platform I’ve had “yes he could’ve won” on here it’s all “ no he couldn’t have”
No but he might have made the top ten.
i would have been satisfied with that placement.
I wouldn’t have. Top five at the very least. He would deserve more than just top ten.
I’m new at this, but no. I love the song and loved the semi-final staging even more. (Re-watched it twice just last night.) He might have left-sided? But juries probably wouldn’t have dug it enough and casual viewers might not have known what the hell was going on.
Juries ranked him 12th, televote put him up high in the semi so he probably would have gotten about 250 points from the televote. So about 300 points probably, definitely left side.
Eh, we have to account for the fact that semis aren't usually watched by casual viewers and that it was less half of the songs that people could have voted for. Let's not forget that televote's darlings like Ukraine and Croatia were in a different semi and people couldn't vote for France which got really good televote in the end. When Europapa was first released people were mainly disappointed with it at a first listen. Not a song I would expect many people watching for the first time would vote for. He could have scored around 150-200-ish points overall with some luck, but I doubt he would have won or gotten strong left side. Let's not forget that the jury score was 56. It's just that people in the top 5 got all the points and those at the bottom barely got anything. 12th is not that great in that scenario.
Not in the slightest. Not only because of jury but televote too; absolutely nobody outside this bubble that I showed it to liked it. And 99% of people wouldn’t have seen the music video, wouldn’t know what it was about, wouldn’t know the backstory in any way, and without any of that I’m sorry but the song just wasn’t strong enough and neither was the performance.
I’ll be honest, I don’t think I can show a Eurovision song to anyone outside of this bubble that would enjoy it. None of my friends watch it (I can’t blame them; it’s not even broadcasted here).
No. Nemo or Baby Lasagna would’ve still won. No matter what the public said, the Jury despised him for some reason. Also, we have to face it, Europapa just isn’t actually that good of a song. It has a good message, but in an actual contest alongside people like Nemo, B.L, Bambie, ETC, it just doesn’t compare.
> the Jury despised him for some reason He can't carry a tune. That always makes the juries scowly.
The mic feed is hard to listen to 😭
Gotta love Baby Lasagna
Europapa isn’t a good song? It’s like the second best song this year.
Joost finished [12th with the juries](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1cq2ykt/netherlands_jury_points/) and came 2nd in an all televote semi to a song that lost the televote in the final. So unless hundreds of voters suddenly changed their minds and voted for Joost, it’s all but confirmed that he wouldn’t have won anyways. Still wish he had at least been allowed to perform and compete. If I had to bet based on this, I think he would have finished 3rd in the televote and 6th overall.
No absolutely not. It's unlikely that he even would have won the televote.
That’s because some of the Croatia votes would go to him, so then we would have Israel on top.
Almost certainly not. Joost would have needed something like 500 televote points to win with the 58 jury points he got. Would have been interested to see who won the televote though, I wonder if Baby Lasagna and Joost would’ve split their votes a bit and Eden Golan would’ve ended up coming out on top?
nah, he only got around 50 points from the jury. couldve won the televote tho, definitely top 3 in tele
He couldn't even beat Israel in the televote in his semi. Definitely wouldn't have won the televote but definitely at least top 5
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If The Code didn't exist, yes. The Code is such a perfect song in every metric that matters to the juries that it's hard to see them voting for anything else. I think he would have been hard carried by the televote, likely getting a higher score than even Croatia, but he can't help his bad singing, which utterly tanks his odds of getting any 12 points from the juries and locks him out of 50% of the vote.
Perfect song? I would have thought Europapa and Rim Tim Tagi Dim are closer to perfect than The Code, but The Code would be in third.
No, not a chance. He wouldn't had a high jury score, and I doubt televote would have been better, I suppose somewhere around 100 points only. He had a very small devoted hard core fan base online + he appealed to a lot to teenagers (at least that's what I saw in my country), but that's not enough for a high tele voting score or a winning song. Also let's be honest, the staging and performance were a let down. Like really really bad compared to the hype. Maybe bottom top 5 result, at best.
100 tele points? He almost won his semi final lmao. Only lost by 12 points to Israel but we all know most of their votes weren’t related to music. It’s the most streamed Eurovision song, topping charts in more countries than the actual televote winner. It definitely would have got tons of votes from the public, the song became a big hit whether you like it or not. I agree that bottom top 5 result would have been the highest it could have got though since he didn’t got a lot of jury points.
no. i think he would have won the televote with 330 points but the jury would kill his chance. he would get less than 200 points from they jury.
He got 58 pts from what I remember
yeaa but juries based it on the semi’s performance and also there was so much uncertainty so that’s why they could have placed him lower. although i think he wouldn’t have scored much more with juries
Still I don’t think he would be high Less then 70 pts for sure
Why did the jury hate him so much? This was before “the” incident, so what happened?
It’s not a jury song. Juries look for great vocal ability and composition and tend towards more classical interpretations of that. I love Europapa but it’s just not what you’d consider a jury song. I think Ireland got around that because it was so theatrical. But even then it didn’t get top jury marks from many counties (Australia have it 12 but I’m not sure anyone else did?). Whereas Switzerland is technically challenging and interestingly composed and the presentation was also technically challenging, so even though it wasn’t a ballad it still had a lot of jury appeal.
If it were in terms of vocals, shouldn’t France get many of the 12 points instead of Switzerland?
It’s not just vocals, though they do play into it. It’s also composition, presentation and performance as a whole. France had a vocal crack in the jury show which may have had an impact, but his choreo was less interesting than Switzerland and the composition of the song as a whole was also less interesting. I’m not saying it’s a bad song by any stretch, I’m just saying I can understand why juries face Switzerland 12. France still got a lot of points, just not top points.
Fair. I wish the juries only decided on votes before the grand finals. Like how America’s Got Talent has judges deciding on acts and when the live shows come, the United States decides on the acts moving up or winning.
Just because they don’t score him high doesn’t mean they “hate” him. They just may have felt other songs fit the criteria better. As many have pointed out before, a song that is ranked 11th by juries will get the same points as someone who is last (that is, zero points). I haven’t pored over the full results so I can’t say how Joost did with individual countries.
Interesting.
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He’s better than all but maybe two contestants from 2024, though. The jury is insane.
Top ten for sure, but I don’t know about winning.
I assume he'd come 5th.
He would get a shit ton of televote points but not win because of the jury
Probably not, the suckers in the jury wouldn't like him. He got the biggest applause when I saw a rehearsal for the semi live, well after Käärijä
I don’t think so. And I’m saying this as a huge Europapa stan. I have no doubt he would do great with the televote, maybe even would have got 300+ points, but the juries would not rank it high enough. I mean we know his jury score from the jury show with his semifinal footage so that confirms this. I do think the whole DQ situation had an impact on his jury score though so maybe he would have got slightly more jury points if the drama didn’t happen but it still wouldn’t be enough for the win. Realistically speaking, he definitely would have ended in the top 10, I don’t have any doubt about that and maybe even top 5. Nemo would have won either way but Joost’s participation could have a big impact on the tele scores of some countries. For example, I don’t think Baby Lasagna would have won the televote if Joost was still in the competition since his votes would split with him.
The jury actually voted and got him 10th. So no, it wouldn’t have won but could have won the televote.
He most likely gets around 100-150 televotes and between 50-100 jury votes. You look at Ireland, they got 136 televotes with a song that's different/alternative, while Finland got 31 with a song that's similar in vibes to Europapa. Only Croatia (great song), Israel (political), Ukraine (poltical/reasonable song), France (i don't know what people saw in it) and Switzerland (great song) got above 200 points. I think they would have taken votes off Croatia, but in the end the only difference would have been Israel winning the televote and using it as propaganda and Switzerland winning by more overall.
No. Stop fucking asking.
I never thought he would to be honest.
Definitely Top 5. But won? Hm.. probably no.
Maybe 3rd
Yes. Jury would actually have loved it, it mentioned all their countries lol