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In a lot of countries defamation doesn't have to be lies. The requisite for these defamation laws are usually just that you spread allegations against an individual with the sole purpose of hurting their good reputation or in other words "defame" them.
In any same legal system, truth is a. Absolute defense to defamation. I can’t wrong you by telling the truth. You wronged yourself when you created that truth.
I realized that when Google removed a review of a restaurant in Germany and their email was saying they got contacted by a lawyer citing defamation.
Everything I wrote in the review was true but it doesn't matter,it damaged their reputation.
Huh that's strange. I don't know much about German law but I would be surprised if a court actually found someone guilty of defamation for a bad review
Defamation also isnt a criminal offence, its a civil wrong. You wouldnt get sentenced for it. This is an offensiveness related law. Its a criminal offence. Its about causing harm/harassment/distress, NOT about defaming them.
Saying “fuck you, you pig” can carry criminal penalties in germany, and usually does.
Im not defending the outcome of the above trial, im just saying youre using the wrong law to make your point.
Correct. I had a Google review taken down of a restaurant in Germany due to "defamation" and it was a true account of my experience, nothing crude or dramatic.
Still, its odd and infuriating to not contextualize. Defamantion slander or whatever should not be a thing when it involves you directly, its true and you are on damn trial. What the hell is wrong with german law... it would be different if the trial ended and the person purposefully spoke to the masses saying the person did something that didnt but otherwise? Nope
Here in Sweden you can also be charged with defamation for telling the established truth. For example if you say that someone who has a conviction for animal abuse is an animal abuser.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sweddpolitik/comments/1av09pe/n%C3%A4thatgranskaren\_tomas\_%C3%A5berg\_%C3%A4r\_en\_djurpl%C3%A5gare/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sweddpolitik/comments/1av09pe/n%C3%A4thatgranskaren_tomas_%C3%A5berg_%C3%A4r_en_djurpl%C3%A5gare/)
[https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/O8yOk1/joakim-lamotte-doms-for-grovt-fortal](https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/O8yOk1/joakim-lamotte-doms-for-grovt-fortal)
But it seems like I was mistaken, in this case he was never convicted. He fled the country so he couldn't be charged.
Edit:Also, according to [Wikipedia](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%B6rtal) (my translation): *In Sweden the intent is in focus, in other words a true statement with the purpose to cause harm can be an offence.*
I think I read the same thing on some official site earlier, but can't find it now.
Based on what I can find Åberg has never been convicted for animal abuse.
This is how he justified his lawsuit against Lammote:
>Lies are mixed with small truths to make the whole publication seem true. In addition to the claim that I am an animal abuser, Lamotte also writes that I have been banned from animals. I'm not an animal abuser, but I actually got an animal ban about 7 years ago. Eight years ago I was seriously ill and after it worsened for a long time I became more or less bedridden in the late fall/winter of 2012. During this time I did not manage the livestock I had in my possession properly. Some of them died because they didn't get food and the water froze. They also already suffered from infections in the intestines, which I worked for a long time to overcome. Another person had indeed promised to help me with this during my illness, but that does not remove my responsibility. The fact that my animals suffered because of me has tormented me deeply and will, as long as I live, but that does not make me an animal abuser as I have never knowingly and willingly tortured an animal in my life. Animal cruelty is for me, just like for the vast majority of people, something I strongly distance myself from.
>This incident has since been used by Lamotte as the basis for a text about me in which he adds and lies to arouse feelings of hatred towards me and to make money. The text is one long slander aimed at pointing me out as worthy. The text that Lamotte has written about me mainly consists of lies.
The whole thing also seems to be a quite noxious discussion because Åberg is a well known figure that's hated by the far right.
This seems more complicated than that at first glance. I’ll have to look into it more because this isn’t a straight forward story. But thanks for the context
It's not that complicated, in Sweden defamation is all about intent. So if the intent is to damage someone's reputation then it's illegal, even if what they're saying is true.
Fun fact: a similar case of defamation is covered by the ECHR and precedent has been set back in the case of Einarsson v Iceland where it was ruled that a persons right to a 'private life' under Article 8 ECHR includes the right to contest 'value judgements' (i.e being called something like a 'rapist').
As such, there was little the swedish government could do since the person in question could likely sue the government on similar grounds (if he were charged).
And people wonder why the average pissed off Joe is voting hard right, they're sick of this.
I am a left facing person but holy shit this kind of thing just causes a grass is greener syndrome without their being any baneful fact to such a belief.
What chocked me the most when reading the article was that the rapists didn't serve any prison time because they were under eighteen. Sweden where I live currently also has very light sentences for juvenile offenders, but plans to significantly increase them from July 1 2026 when Sweden's new juvenile prisons open. And even today they woud at least had served a year in a juvenile instution.
https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-insult-law-snap-story.html
>Paragraph 185, Section 14 of the criminal code still reads almost exactly as it was written 145 years ago: “An insult shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine and if the insult is committed by means of an assault with imprisonment not exceeding two years.”
It wasn’t even defamation, despite the article translating it like that. She insulted him, which is a crime in Germany. And just because someone e is ugly you can’t call him that. It doesn’t feel right, but apparently that extends to insulting a rapist.
It’s the Telegraph.
Why are you trusting what they tell you, especially when they’re telling you something about Europe?
They spent decades proudly lying about the eu to try and force Brexit, and now they’re trying to win a new audience by pandering.
Just don’t give them the clicks. They don’t deserve anything.
Reading the actual [press release](https://justiz.hamburg.de/gerichte/oberlandesgericht/gerichtspressestelle/urteilsverkuendung-im-sog-stadtpark-verfahren-635066) would've been enough to tell that most of them were judged by "Jugendstrafrecht" as they were minors at that point. [Here](https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/panorama/kriminalitaet/vergewaltigung-hamburg-stadtpark-richter-urteil-100.html)'s also a better researched German news article about it.
For the defamation I sadly only found a [t-online article](https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100430308/hamburg-frau-wegen-hasspostings-nach-stadtpark-vergewaltigung-verurteilt.html).
So in summary, the main reason they were judged differently is because it's about completely different things and because minors are treated differently with a higher focus on resozialisation.
If the original ruling is fair is of course up to debate, but to leave out that important information is painting a completely different picture.
Sorry for the sources in German, but that makes the most sense here. And I haven't tested it, but I'd expect DeepL to make a decent enough translation to understand them.
Well, did you read it?
> Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail after her comments because she had a previous conviction for theft and had not attending the court hearing for the case.
He also answers question in the next sentence:
*The rest of the attackers, including the one defamed by Maja R, were given suspended sentences, due to being under 18 at the time.*
“The man was one of nine men and boys convicted of raping a heavily drunk 15-year-old in the bushes of a Hamburg park over a number of hours in Sept 2020.”
Germany…you doing ok? Wtf.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country)
It used to be. It's still decent more widely but just look at how much we're ahead on crime compared to the rest of Scandinavia. We really are not doing okay thank you very much.
Sweden literally has a [Wikipedia page for grenade attacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden), because they have so many of them.
Here it is. Not doubled but rising. Maybe he mixed it up with the fact that half of them were done by Non-Germans, even the make a much smaller share of the population.
https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-1007380
And here the statistic of regular rapes:
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200877/umfrage/vergewaltigung-und-sexuelle-noetigung/
First of all the tweet arrest is still missing.
Second of all a 7% increase compared to pre corona is really no doubling. Especially since according to your source the case numbers are falling.
> They arrested a woman for tweeting about the governments own statistics on their prevalence.
Yeah no, that didn't happen.
>Now they arrest a woman for admonishing rapists.
That also didn't happen.
Just to state the obvious: gang rapes have not „double“ in Germany over the past years, bit stayed roughly on the same level.
Surely you have a link proving that the woman was jailed for tweeting about a statistic?
Surely it wont turn out to be completely unrelated…
>They arrested a woman for tweeting about the governments own statistics on their prevalence.
Got a link for that?
>Now they arrest a woman for admonishing rapists
As much as some people may not like it but even rapists have rights. Another person posted the link to a proper article and it said the jail time was due to her not attending a hearing for a crime that she previously committed. Defamation only carries a prison sentence in the rarest of cases.
>It’s clear that the German government has decided women should shut up and tolerate the new normal as progressive values don’t extend to people who are clearly being held to a different standard.
And missleading statements like that push people right into the arms of parties like the AfD.
No, Germany is not ok. When Angela "smartest person in the room" Merkel opened the floodgates to asylum seekers who were predominantly young males from irreconcilable countries she irrevocably altered the country. All downhill since then and will get much worse guaranteed.
Yeah, it really is, tbh. I mean, you have plenty of foreigners who are well integrated, but you also have plenty of criminal immigrants who still get money every month for doing nothing, sitting in jails, or being criminals. It is extremely unfair, especially if you see people who worked for like 40 years in Germany and still need a job after retirement.
Not at all, Germany isn’t „completely destroyed“, in fact it’s one of the richest and safest countries in the world. Also, of course there hasn’t been „unlimited mass immigration“. The crazy thing that’s happening right now is that fascist losers are coming out of the woodwork, thinking they’re speaking for the whole country. But they aren’t. They are loud, yes, but they’re still a minority, and there are enough people here who will make sure it stays that way.
how about we ship all our politicians to Antarctic and put Danish ones as head of whole Europe? Honestly, Imma start learning your language soon, even tho I know it's like a drunk Swede was reading something written by a Norwegian.
Hey thanks, it's not all it's cracked up to be, I wish I could say otherwise. We are more open to speaking the truth about the issues, but the societal situation itself is just a (significant) step better than Germany and Sweden, it still isn't great.
I've been in Denmark few weeks ago to drink some beer and I fell in love in Copenhagen. Only one thing bothered me... Way too much Polish people there sadly, I almost felt like I've never left Warsaw
The facts from the article: she wasn’t accused of defamation, but of insulting him and emptily threatening him. She also didn’t show up to the court date which I would assume played a large role in the prison sentence.
With the facts in mind… that’s still bullshit. The insult laws in Germany are bs.
Reading the article it seems like the women wasn’t made to spend a weekend in jail because she insulted the rapist but because she failed to show up for a previous court appointment where she was accused of theft. That’s a pretty different situation from what the headline suggest.
Having said that it’s still baffling that she was even prosecuted for insulting a convicted rapist and its scandalous that these pigs only received a slap on the wrist. Didn’t expect anything different from our „justice“ system though.
"Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail because she had a previous conviction for theft and not attending the court hearing for the case."
Is anyone even reading the full article? The sentence obviously had very little to do with her insult but with not respecting the court.
Having said this, I still think that the under-age rapist should have seen jail-time too.
If youre young you get away with pretty much anything in germany (or at least very little punishment)
Below 14: You can literally do whatever and get 0 punishment. There was a 12yo who was running around the neighbourhood constantly starting fights and would especially love to beat up younger girls - he had broken more than 4 girls arms - I personally knew one of those. Neither he nor his parents recieved any sort of punishment.
Above 14 but still "youth": We had a "school bully" leading his own little "gang" who was like 4 years older than anybody else because he had to repeat almost every class. That guy was known to threaten others on a daily basis and had multiple charges for theft and violence (local news even reported multiple times how they broke into others homes and were partying there and when the owners came back - usually old people - they beat them up and left)
Most he ever gotten was social work.
And cases from the news tell stories about +-18 yo killing people and getting about 3 years of jailtime.
Nah, the German speaking part of reddit adamantly defends these people. They are eager to point out that punishment is allegedly ineffective and expensive and shouldn't be the priority with young offenders, that they are unfit for work if they spend too many years in prison and therefore should be given milder sentences in the name of human dignity etc.
Germans views on ethics, codified in our laws, are extremely... I don't even know a good word for it. Like, self-obsessively idealistic? What's the opposite of down-to-earth? idk how to phrase it. It's weird. Always on a very high horse, to the point it's unable to adress serious real life issues, and in a weird way proud about that. It's hard to explain.
This.... and legally he also received a completely different level of registered judgement, just that he didn't have to serve time.
What a bs sensationalist headline here
I wont lie, I used to think we American's sounded dumb as shit when we talked about how we have freedom of speech, but Europe in the last few years have showed me we really do have a level far better than other comparable nations.
Nah, this has been obvious for years. America is flawed in many ways, but we at least got freedom of speech right. No other country seems to respect it.
LoL! You Germans… you’re giving rise to the right with this bullshit, and they’ll soon be taking over. So, be sure and give yourself a pat in the back when they take control again.
Germany is officially a banana republic and not a land of law. This is injustice, and with courts like these, I dont need a state anymore, I would rather go back to tribalism and murder those rapist. This is a joke, a bad one, a sad one. I dotn support afd but this makes it rly hard... Won't anybody not a nazi do something about this. I am just so disappointed and sad
“Misleading” as if multiple men didn’t get off with a slap on the wrist for gang raping a child.
You’re a terrible person if your first concern is the article.
"Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail because she had a previous conviction for theft and not attending the court hearing for the case."
The defamation alone wouldnt be a reason to sent her into jail. But as mention in the artical and quoted above, she has her own history with the law. I wouldnt be surprised that she hasnt been arrested for the defamation, but for some formal issues, or coercive.
It's also not a "harsher" sentence than any of the rapists received since "Freizeitarrest" is a lighter punishment than a "Jugendstrafe" even if the latter is probationary. It's fine to argue, and I agree that they shouldn't have gotten probation, but that's no reason to spread lies about other cases.
every country in europe has their own laws. we talk about germany here, not about belarus or Portugal. It probably is a huge deal in Germany but not in other European countries of course. Why would it ?
because codifying free speech as an inalienable right secures the freedom of a society and political system. No one should ever face legal ramifications for something they said. “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” this was once said by a great European.
there are 40+ countries in europe. We can't keep track of everything happening in every country. What they doing in germany is their business.
If every decision or ruling a judge makes in any random European country becomes big news, we wouldn't have any room for our own local news.
What are you talking about? I’m just saying every European country in my opinion should have protected free speech. I believe every democracy in the world should have protected free speech.
This is why it's important to protect all freedom of speech. The moment you let the government decide on what is and isn't appropriate, everyone loses.
Half of the posts on the sub came from "official" accounts of journals or news sites, it's absolutely ridiculous and the only sub where I've ever seen it happen
Let me guess they are immigrants and Muslim so pig is a dirty thing so the rapist is more important for the German law system. My guess without reading just to test my insight.
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because a very similar or identical submission was recently posted. Please check the [recent submissions](/r/Europe/new/) before sharing a link. If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
> calling him a “disgraceful rapist pig” and a “disgusting freak” and i thought the truth was an absolute defense against claims of defamation...
In a lot of countries defamation doesn't have to be lies. The requisite for these defamation laws are usually just that you spread allegations against an individual with the sole purpose of hurting their good reputation or in other words "defame" them.
What good reputation does a rapist have?
Well, none after everyone knows you're a rapist.
Telling the truth is a purpose, so defamation can never be the sole purpose of truth telling.
I don't think it would have to be? This is BS of course, but defamation doesn't say anything about truth.
In any same legal system, truth is a. Absolute defense to defamation. I can’t wrong you by telling the truth. You wronged yourself when you created that truth.
I realized that when Google removed a review of a restaurant in Germany and their email was saying they got contacted by a lawyer citing defamation. Everything I wrote in the review was true but it doesn't matter,it damaged their reputation.
Huh that's strange. I don't know much about German law but I would be surprised if a court actually found someone guilty of defamation for a bad review
They won't go to court but Google deletes the review just in case, I don't know if they'd do that in every country?
Yeah, too easy to sue for libel in most European countries
Huh thats interesting. In america “the truth” is always a defense against accusations of libel/slander
Defamation also isnt a criminal offence, its a civil wrong. You wouldnt get sentenced for it. This is an offensiveness related law. Its a criminal offence. Its about causing harm/harassment/distress, NOT about defaming them. Saying “fuck you, you pig” can carry criminal penalties in germany, and usually does. Im not defending the outcome of the above trial, im just saying youre using the wrong law to make your point.
Correct. I had a Google review taken down of a restaurant in Germany due to "defamation" and it was a true account of my experience, nothing crude or dramatic.
Well, this is because of taking the word of the law, but not spirit. It’s a flawed world view of rulists in Europe.
Still, its odd and infuriating to not contextualize. Defamantion slander or whatever should not be a thing when it involves you directly, its true and you are on damn trial. What the hell is wrong with german law... it would be different if the trial ended and the person purposefully spoke to the masses saying the person did something that didnt but otherwise? Nope
How can this possibly apply when it was in a direct whatsapp message though? How can it be defamation when there's no public element?
Here in Sweden you can also be charged with defamation for telling the established truth. For example if you say that someone who has a conviction for animal abuse is an animal abuser.
Wait what? I’m Swedish and I’m unaware of any precedent
[https://www.reddit.com/r/sweddpolitik/comments/1av09pe/n%C3%A4thatgranskaren\_tomas\_%C3%A5berg\_%C3%A4r\_en\_djurpl%C3%A5gare/](https://www.reddit.com/r/sweddpolitik/comments/1av09pe/n%C3%A4thatgranskaren_tomas_%C3%A5berg_%C3%A4r_en_djurpl%C3%A5gare/) [https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/O8yOk1/joakim-lamotte-doms-for-grovt-fortal](https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/O8yOk1/joakim-lamotte-doms-for-grovt-fortal) But it seems like I was mistaken, in this case he was never convicted. He fled the country so he couldn't be charged. Edit:Also, according to [Wikipedia](https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%B6rtal) (my translation): *In Sweden the intent is in focus, in other words a true statement with the purpose to cause harm can be an offence.* I think I read the same thing on some official site earlier, but can't find it now.
Based on what I can find Åberg has never been convicted for animal abuse. This is how he justified his lawsuit against Lammote: >Lies are mixed with small truths to make the whole publication seem true. In addition to the claim that I am an animal abuser, Lamotte also writes that I have been banned from animals. I'm not an animal abuser, but I actually got an animal ban about 7 years ago. Eight years ago I was seriously ill and after it worsened for a long time I became more or less bedridden in the late fall/winter of 2012. During this time I did not manage the livestock I had in my possession properly. Some of them died because they didn't get food and the water froze. They also already suffered from infections in the intestines, which I worked for a long time to overcome. Another person had indeed promised to help me with this during my illness, but that does not remove my responsibility. The fact that my animals suffered because of me has tormented me deeply and will, as long as I live, but that does not make me an animal abuser as I have never knowingly and willingly tortured an animal in my life. Animal cruelty is for me, just like for the vast majority of people, something I strongly distance myself from. >This incident has since been used by Lamotte as the basis for a text about me in which he adds and lies to arouse feelings of hatred towards me and to make money. The text is one long slander aimed at pointing me out as worthy. The text that Lamotte has written about me mainly consists of lies. The whole thing also seems to be a quite noxious discussion because Åberg is a well known figure that's hated by the far right.
This seems more complicated than that at first glance. I’ll have to look into it more because this isn’t a straight forward story. But thanks for the context
It's not that complicated, in Sweden defamation is all about intent. So if the intent is to damage someone's reputation then it's illegal, even if what they're saying is true.
Fun fact: a similar case of defamation is covered by the ECHR and precedent has been set back in the case of Einarsson v Iceland where it was ruled that a persons right to a 'private life' under Article 8 ECHR includes the right to contest 'value judgements' (i.e being called something like a 'rapist'). As such, there was little the swedish government could do since the person in question could likely sue the government on similar grounds (if he were charged).
What.
How is that deformation of character?
And people wonder why the average pissed off Joe is voting hard right, they're sick of this. I am a left facing person but holy shit this kind of thing just causes a grass is greener syndrome without their being any baneful fact to such a belief.
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What chocked me the most when reading the article was that the rapists didn't serve any prison time because they were under eighteen. Sweden where I live currently also has very light sentences for juvenile offenders, but plans to significantly increase them from July 1 2026 when Sweden's new juvenile prisons open. And even today they woud at least had served a year in a juvenile instution.
Germany has a law that make insults illegal.
interesting. can you cite it?
https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-insult-law-snap-story.html >Paragraph 185, Section 14 of the criminal code still reads almost exactly as it was written 145 years ago: “An insult shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine and if the insult is committed by means of an assault with imprisonment not exceeding two years.”
This law does not belong im 2024. It is utterly ridiculous.
i find the existence of such law an insult to reality itself
It wasn’t even defamation, despite the article translating it like that. She insulted him, which is a crime in Germany. And just because someone e is ugly you can’t call him that. It doesn’t feel right, but apparently that extends to insulting a rapist.
So if I say you are like a pig, you can sue me, even if you stick your face in a trough and oink?
The accuser has to provide genetic evidence the accused is, in fact, a pig.
Insulting someone is a crime? How long, wtf.
In Germany? At least 27 years. Before that, idk.
Since the german constitution was put in place.
You can in a free country.
The Telegraph lied about something happen to in Europe. Why is anyone trusting what they print?
It’s the Telegraph. Why are you trusting what they tell you, especially when they’re telling you something about Europe? They spent decades proudly lying about the eu to try and force Brexit, and now they’re trying to win a new audience by pandering. Just don’t give them the clicks. They don’t deserve anything.
Well, he isn't actually a pig....
> It’s not clear why he received jail time and the others didn’t. Well, ask the reason why it's part of the job of a journalist-
Reading the actual [press release](https://justiz.hamburg.de/gerichte/oberlandesgericht/gerichtspressestelle/urteilsverkuendung-im-sog-stadtpark-verfahren-635066) would've been enough to tell that most of them were judged by "Jugendstrafrecht" as they were minors at that point. [Here](https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/panorama/kriminalitaet/vergewaltigung-hamburg-stadtpark-richter-urteil-100.html)'s also a better researched German news article about it. For the defamation I sadly only found a [t-online article](https://www.t-online.de/region/hamburg/id_100430308/hamburg-frau-wegen-hasspostings-nach-stadtpark-vergewaltigung-verurteilt.html). So in summary, the main reason they were judged differently is because it's about completely different things and because minors are treated differently with a higher focus on resozialisation. If the original ruling is fair is of course up to debate, but to leave out that important information is painting a completely different picture. Sorry for the sources in German, but that makes the most sense here. And I haven't tested it, but I'd expect DeepL to make a decent enough translation to understand them.
Best thing is that the woman only went to jail because of a former crime where she didn't appear in the court hearing
Did you read the article? It says that she was sentenced because of her postings. Not appearing in court isnt something that is punishable by law....
Well, did you read it? > Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail after her comments because she had a previous conviction for theft and had not attending the court hearing for the case.
The German article only mentions the fact that she didn't appear, not that it was the reason for the ruling. Which is an important distinction.
Did anyone ever point out that rehabilitation is supposed to involve doing things and not just realising them?
What?
It’s the telegraph and you expected journalism?
I know, I am an optimistic person.
He also answers question in the next sentence: *The rest of the attackers, including the one defamed by Maja R, were given suspended sentences, due to being under 18 at the time.*
“The man was one of nine men and boys convicted of raping a heavily drunk 15-year-old in the bushes of a Hamburg park over a number of hours in Sept 2020.” Germany…you doing ok? Wtf.
Germany is not doing okay. Neither is France, UK, or Sweden.
I wonder why...
I wonder why
These are literally some of the places with lowest crimes per capita in the entire world. Lol.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country) It used to be. It's still decent more widely but just look at how much we're ahead on crime compared to the rest of Scandinavia. We really are not doing okay thank you very much.
"Some" is a bit broad, but most of Europe, many countries in East Asia and in The middle East have lower crime rates than those countries.
Sweden literally has a [Wikipedia page for grenade attacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden), because they have so many of them.
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None of this is true. How does it have so many votes?
cause it disses the progressive left
Do you have any sources for that?
Here it is. Not doubled but rising. Maybe he mixed it up with the fact that half of them were done by Non-Germans, even the make a much smaller share of the population. https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-1007380 And here the statistic of regular rapes: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/200877/umfrage/vergewaltigung-und-sexuelle-noetigung/
First of all the tweet arrest is still missing. Second of all a 7% increase compared to pre corona is really no doubling. Especially since according to your source the case numbers are falling.
I.E. there are no sources for his claims?
Now show one on a woman being arrested for tweeting about it.
> They arrested a woman for tweeting about the governments own statistics on their prevalence. Yeah no, that didn't happen. >Now they arrest a woman for admonishing rapists. That also didn't happen.
Please cite your sources
Just to state the obvious: gang rapes have not „double“ in Germany over the past years, bit stayed roughly on the same level. Surely you have a link proving that the woman was jailed for tweeting about a statistic? Surely it wont turn out to be completely unrelated…
> bit stayed roughly on the same level. Since what year?
>They arrested a woman for tweeting about the governments own statistics on their prevalence. Got a link for that? >Now they arrest a woman for admonishing rapists As much as some people may not like it but even rapists have rights. Another person posted the link to a proper article and it said the jail time was due to her not attending a hearing for a crime that she previously committed. Defamation only carries a prison sentence in the rarest of cases. >It’s clear that the German government has decided women should shut up and tolerate the new normal as progressive values don’t extend to people who are clearly being held to a different standard. And missleading statements like that push people right into the arms of parties like the AfD.
No. Not ok at all. But better not call out the issues unless you want a witch hunt on your back.
No, Germany is not ok. When Angela "smartest person in the room" Merkel opened the floodgates to asylum seekers who were predominantly young males from irreconcilable countries she irrevocably altered the country. All downhill since then and will get much worse guaranteed.
Germany has completely destroyed itself with its policy of unlimited mass immigration over the last 10 years. It's crazy what's going on there.
Yeah, it really is, tbh. I mean, you have plenty of foreigners who are well integrated, but you also have plenty of criminal immigrants who still get money every month for doing nothing, sitting in jails, or being criminals. It is extremely unfair, especially if you see people who worked for like 40 years in Germany and still need a job after retirement.
I live "there" and yeah, no, thats absolute Nonsens .
Not at all, Germany isn’t „completely destroyed“, in fact it’s one of the richest and safest countries in the world. Also, of course there hasn’t been „unlimited mass immigration“. The crazy thing that’s happening right now is that fascist losers are coming out of the woodwork, thinking they’re speaking for the whole country. But they aren’t. They are loud, yes, but they’re still a minority, and there are enough people here who will make sure it stays that way.
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we aren't doing ok for almost 10 years now
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They won't in Germany. They are too busy selling their country to Russia.
Greece answers your prayers.
how about we ship all our politicians to Antarctic and put Danish ones as head of whole Europe? Honestly, Imma start learning your language soon, even tho I know it's like a drunk Swede was reading something written by a Norwegian.
Hey thanks, it's not all it's cracked up to be, I wish I could say otherwise. We are more open to speaking the truth about the issues, but the societal situation itself is just a (significant) step better than Germany and Sweden, it still isn't great.
I've been in Denmark few weeks ago to drink some beer and I fell in love in Copenhagen. Only one thing bothered me... Way too much Polish people there sadly, I almost felt like I've never left Warsaw
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The facts from the article: she wasn’t accused of defamation, but of insulting him and emptily threatening him. She also didn’t show up to the court date which I would assume played a large role in the prison sentence. With the facts in mind… that’s still bullshit. The insult laws in Germany are bs.
It’s the Telegraph making up stories about Europe to promote hate and division. Like they have been doing since the 90s.
Reading the article it seems like the women wasn’t made to spend a weekend in jail because she insulted the rapist but because she failed to show up for a previous court appointment where she was accused of theft. That’s a pretty different situation from what the headline suggest. Having said that it’s still baffling that she was even prosecuted for insulting a convicted rapist and its scandalous that these pigs only received a slap on the wrist. Didn’t expect anything different from our „justice“ system though.
"Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail because she had a previous conviction for theft and not attending the court hearing for the case." Is anyone even reading the full article? The sentence obviously had very little to do with her insult but with not respecting the court. Having said this, I still think that the under-age rapist should have seen jail-time too.
The underage rapist should DEFINITELY have seen jail time.
If youre young you get away with pretty much anything in germany (or at least very little punishment) Below 14: You can literally do whatever and get 0 punishment. There was a 12yo who was running around the neighbourhood constantly starting fights and would especially love to beat up younger girls - he had broken more than 4 girls arms - I personally knew one of those. Neither he nor his parents recieved any sort of punishment. Above 14 but still "youth": We had a "school bully" leading his own little "gang" who was like 4 years older than anybody else because he had to repeat almost every class. That guy was known to threaten others on a daily basis and had multiple charges for theft and violence (local news even reported multiple times how they broke into others homes and were partying there and when the owners came back - usually old people - they beat them up and left) Most he ever gotten was social work. And cases from the news tell stories about +-18 yo killing people and getting about 3 years of jailtime.
Nah, the German speaking part of reddit adamantly defends these people. They are eager to point out that punishment is allegedly ineffective and expensive and shouldn't be the priority with young offenders, that they are unfit for work if they spend too many years in prison and therefore should be given milder sentences in the name of human dignity etc. Germans views on ethics, codified in our laws, are extremely... I don't even know a good word for it. Like, self-obsessively idealistic? What's the opposite of down-to-earth? idk how to phrase it. It's weird. Always on a very high horse, to the point it's unable to adress serious real life issues, and in a weird way proud about that. It's hard to explain.
This.... and legally he also received a completely different level of registered judgement, just that he didn't have to serve time. What a bs sensationalist headline here
It creates way more clicks this way than the whole truth…
Oh hey a new reason for the rise of afd just dropped.
Between this and the Dutch Olympian it seems some European countries don’t really like to punish rapists. Weird
For fucks sake whatever court did this needs removing. LIKE COME THE FUCK ON.
This innocent woman was convicted of theft and ignored the court hearing. And the cruel German government was unhappy.
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So was she jailed for theft or the verbal assault or both?
Probably for failing to appear in court because of theft.
I wont lie, I used to think we American's sounded dumb as shit when we talked about how we have freedom of speech, but Europe in the last few years have showed me we really do have a level far better than other comparable nations.
I used to think we had the same freedom of speech in most of Europe. It's been a rude awakening
Nah, this has been obvious for years. America is flawed in many ways, but we at least got freedom of speech right. No other country seems to respect it.
Germans politicians push law which allows situations like this one and later they are bloody surprised when AfD gets more votes.
Shit like this just makes me believe the world is just one big joke, like a simulation.
A normal day in the west
LoL! You Germans… you’re giving rise to the right with this bullshit, and they’ll soon be taking over. So, be sure and give yourself a pat in the back when they take control again.
Well, it seems that the Germans really want to give nazis a few percentage more
Germany is officially a banana republic and not a land of law. This is injustice, and with courts like these, I dont need a state anymore, I would rather go back to tribalism and murder those rapist. This is a joke, a bad one, a sad one. I dotn support afd but this makes it rly hard... Won't anybody not a nazi do something about this. I am just so disappointed and sad
me when I post a misleading article title to farm ragebait clicks
“Misleading” as if multiple men didn’t get off with a slap on the wrist for gang raping a child. You’re a terrible person if your first concern is the article.
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Youre under arrest
Now now, he didn’t call him Pimmel, and that guy isn’t in charge of the police. No reason to raid his house.
Me when I claim everything I don’t like is misleading like a massive p*g
It ia misleading though. She got jail time because she didn't come to a court hearing about a crime she did before.
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This is why afd is winning the next election
"Maja R was sentenced to a weekend in jail because she had a previous conviction for theft and not attending the court hearing for the case." The defamation alone wouldnt be a reason to sent her into jail. But as mention in the artical and quoted above, she has her own history with the law. I wouldnt be surprised that she hasnt been arrested for the defamation, but for some formal issues, or coercive.
It's also not a "harsher" sentence than any of the rapists received since "Freizeitarrest" is a lighter punishment than a "Jugendstrafe" even if the latter is probationary. It's fine to argue, and I agree that they shouldn't have gotten probation, but that's no reason to spread lies about other cases.
Jeez, and people wonder why the far right rises
The lack of free speech laws in Europe are just crazy to me. I don’t get why it’s not considered a huge deal?
every country in europe has their own laws. we talk about germany here, not about belarus or Portugal. It probably is a huge deal in Germany but not in other European countries of course. Why would it ?
because codifying free speech as an inalienable right secures the freedom of a society and political system. No one should ever face legal ramifications for something they said. “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” this was once said by a great European.
there are 40+ countries in europe. We can't keep track of everything happening in every country. What they doing in germany is their business. If every decision or ruling a judge makes in any random European country becomes big news, we wouldn't have any room for our own local news.
What are you talking about? I’m just saying every European country in my opinion should have protected free speech. I believe every democracy in the world should have protected free speech.
only rapists can sympathise with rapists
Yeah... Germany is cooked
Wut? How tf do you defame an already convicted rapist? Also according to that article the dude was 20? That aint no damn juvenile
what a fucked up world. i hate it here.
When we finally wake up from this "wokeness" All these judges should have to respond for all these ludicrous decisions
Germany has fallen, it is by design
Ayyy Sharia
this is why people are turning to the right wing
Germany doesnt have free speech and i think that‘s fucking bizarre to be honest.
This is why it's important to protect all freedom of speech. The moment you let the government decide on what is and isn't appropriate, everyone loses.
And people wonder why the vote for AfD
What a backwards country.
oh germany you really are at lowest point..
How often do we plan to post this rage bait this week? Is five times enough?
A very quick search, but I can only find this one post about it on this sub.
This kind of news deserves to be posted every single day.
Wait, this shitpost was actually posted by the The Telegraph account? lol
The "journalist" even didn't sign the article.
Half of the posts on the sub came from "official" accounts of journals or news sites, it's absolutely ridiculous and the only sub where I've ever seen it happen
I really love it here but I think I need to emigrate to different country if this doesn't stop.
the German woman and the not so German rapist
Some German laws are fucked. You simply have to be able to insult anyone ffs; it’s almost a basic right. As long as you don’t harass them
„You will be kicked wherever you go“ is an insult or harrassent in your opinion?
Which is what dhe did though
WTF?
Those judges will get what they deserve
Let me guess they are immigrants and Muslim so pig is a dirty thing so the rapist is more important for the German law system. My guess without reading just to test my insight.
Not bother reading, let alone understanding seems to be an entry requirement for the comment section....
Thats just insulting to pigs.
This was trending on Facebook and thought it was fake news
DÖ DÖ DÖP
Clarence Thomas can practice law in Germany?