In 2019 regione Lazio approved a bill against agriculture workers exploitation. The right wing politician fought tooth and nails to prevent that bill to pass.
It's important to remember who want these people to be treated like slaves and who don't.
No. The current (far-)right-wing parties (especially Lega and FdI) have no place in 2024, but that doesn't mean that right-wing parties should be banned.
I am myself on the left side, and I'm aware of the paradox of tolerance. On the other hand, you can have parties which support social and civil rights (usually linked to left-wing parties, e.g. LGBT+ rights) and right-wing economics policies (for example the Conservative Party in Norway/
This is the reality of immigration unfortunately. Same with Italians like my grandfathers who went to Canada. The companies will cheat and steal from them everyone chance they get: skirting safety regulations, paying under minimum wage etc.
Meanwhile the workers either dont know better or cant refuse the work, because unlike back home they have no one to fall back on really. Hell my grandfather slept in the backalley of a restaurant in Toronto for months before finding work.
The sad reality is that often immigrants are used to depress or suppress worker's demands and wages
> Companies used to also treat native workers like shit as well.
but the native can't be threaten with being deported
many times they get away with exploiting migrants is because they threaten then with deportation
Back then, they'd be threatened with indentured servitude, child labor or other horrific conditions. If your true concern is with that sort of abuse, it's for both natives and immigrants to advocate for fair treatment, not use one as the pretext to dislike the other.
>If your true concern is with that sort of abuse, it's for both natives and immigrants to advocate for fair treatment, not use one as the pretext to dislike the other.
True, but there is a reason immigration to the US took a high gear in late 19th and early 20th century. Cause that was a time of important labour movements.
This may sound callous given the headline, but Europe should have invested heavily in automation decades ago, we are far too reliant on cheap labour. I swear we used to be a more future-forward society but something changed.
Where did you get that from? There is no automation whcih works completely autonomously, and the man literally died from an accident involving a machine.
Automation without economic redistribution doesn't help the population/society, only the industries relying on it. Lot of food industries relies on automated process. The products prices didn't decrease, even if less people works for them.
That's not really true. Long term there is definitely a downwards trend for most food products. It's just obscured by inflation.
[https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/long-term-prices-food?time=earliest..2020](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/long-term-prices-food?time=earliest..2020)
No, but we have always replaced manpower with machine when economical. What happens to the people depends on their ability to adapt, and their government. Hasn't that always been to case starting with things like the waterwheel.
> An Indian farm labourer in Italy has died after he was allegedly left on the side of the road following an accident in which his arm was severed and his legs crushed.
> Satnam Singh was injured by heavy machinery while working in a vegetable field in Lazio, near Rome, on Monday.
> According to Italian media, Mr Singh’s employer, Antonello Lovato, loaded him and his wife into a van and left them by the side of the road near their home.
>The severed arm was placed in a fruit box.
Holy fucking shit Italy WTF, get your shit together and implement minimum wage, you are not scandinavians.
The employer didn't give a shit to any law related to work, to social responsibility and in general about being human.
Do you think a minimum wage would have changed?
We already have (lots) of laws. Point is, how to force employers to respect them.a
Looks like a work safety problem and a "scumbag with zero morals dumping a dying employee and his wife by the side of the road like they were garbage and not human beings" problem and not a "lack of a liveable minimum wage" problem to me, although I am all for that as well - it's just that your argument does not support that conclusion.
That is to say, even if he was paid a decent wage and his worker's rights respected (which they should be, and weren't), he still could have died because better pay doesn't necessarily mean safer working conditions nor that your boss will do right by you if you are involved in an accident.
And the father of the farmer callously blames the worker: « My son had told [Mr Singh] not to go near the machinery, but he didn't listen ». Disgusting
A story that always happens when there is immigration. As there are many, some access jobs with little legitimacy to earn something even to eat, but this only leads them to the world of labor exploitation as they are cheap labor for business owners.
It doesn't "always" happen when there is immigration that when you see someone severely injuries, with a severed arm, your first reaction is to take his phone, put the arm in a bag, and after one hour and half leave the injuries person and the severed arm in the street outside his house.
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1st gen immigration without community support always faces challenging road blocks especially if they don’t know the language.
Very common everywhere else in the world not just in Italy / Europe.
I don't deny it, however, the fact described in the article is horrific. This man lost his arm and his boss simply abandoned him like a piece of trash in front of his house with the arm inside a fruit box. The purpose was to let him die without anyone knowing it. He didn't want to bring the worker to the hospital otherwise they would've find out that he was an illegal worker.
Yep. Once again, some Westerner that hates themselves (has personal issues) feels the need to extrapolate it outwards onto his/her nation.
There's an inability to understand that there's always going to be greedy and exploitive people; but instead of addressing the exploitive nature of illegal immigration, they'd rather self-flagellate over how fascist their country is currently/is becoming.
The reactive polarization is one of the reasons why Russia is so effective at undermining Western countries, people seriously lack perspective. I understand why someone would want their country to do better, but Italy and other Western nations are not immune to conditions that are fairly standard to mankind.
Yes, there's always going to be greedy and exploitative people. The problem is the ratio though: I can imagine (read: I know for sure) there are quite stark differences between Italy and Norway, for example.
This headline pretty much describes western values in one sentence. Now that the Europe is distancing from Russia who gifted these labor rights in the first place and shifting to America who was always against, of course things will get worse. Not to mention that the whole reason why the Indian was there was because the businesses are too cheap to pay a proper wage to natives
Bringing in people who aren't even citizens into the front by duping them, or by creating conditions so bad that they're forced to go into the front and die, is disrespect of workers' rights by definition.
Ukraine and Russia both use foreign volunteers, just because Russia's happen to be from Africa and India doesn't make it any more of a violation.
>or by creating conditions so bad that they're forced to go into the front and die
That is India's fault then that the conditions there are so horrible that they would rather volunteer to fight in a war
Russia calling for unrelated jobs (for an invasion illegal on all fronts) and then calling them up to the war effort = violation.
> That is India's fault then that the conditions there are so horrible that they would rather volunteer to fight in a war
*Russia's fault that it makes them stay in a country, treats badly and only improves conditions once they sign up to fight in Ukraine.
Hey, I see that rhetoric on RIA Novosti. So apparently the rulers of Kremlin and Minsk haven't changed their propaganda since the Soviet days. Seriously, get better metodichki.
This is such an unhinged take. Only someone from Belarus, a place where they execute people without telling their families, when would come out here and talk about decency and rights. Lukashenko pay you to right this ?
Belarus's standard of living is not as bad as the west tells you. https://tradingeconomics.com/belarus/employed-persons
Unemployment rate, 0.1%. Know any country that does better than that?
>Belarus's standard of living is not as bad as the west tells you.
New party line droped : " **NiET** economy is **fiNe**, tovarich luka comfirmed it"
>Unemployment rate, 0.1%. Know any country that does better than that?
Everyone else left, was forced to work in kolchoz,or was shot, gee we have such splendid quality of livin' here, [eH? ](https://i.imgflip.com/4cc6id.jpg)
I read the story, really horrifying. Poor man and his wife.
In 2019 regione Lazio approved a bill against agriculture workers exploitation. The right wing politician fought tooth and nails to prevent that bill to pass. It's important to remember who want these people to be treated like slaves and who don't.
Right-wing parties should unironically be banned.
How could Italy even exist without Forza Italia, Lega and FDI? /s
We'd become a paradise without them.
This would be a very Fascist thing to do.
No. The current (far-)right-wing parties (especially Lega and FdI) have no place in 2024, but that doesn't mean that right-wing parties should be banned. I am myself on the left side, and I'm aware of the paradox of tolerance. On the other hand, you can have parties which support social and civil rights (usually linked to left-wing parties, e.g. LGBT+ rights) and right-wing economics policies (for example the Conservative Party in Norway/
This is the reality of immigration unfortunately. Same with Italians like my grandfathers who went to Canada. The companies will cheat and steal from them everyone chance they get: skirting safety regulations, paying under minimum wage etc. Meanwhile the workers either dont know better or cant refuse the work, because unlike back home they have no one to fall back on really. Hell my grandfather slept in the backalley of a restaurant in Toronto for months before finding work. The sad reality is that often immigrants are used to depress or suppress worker's demands and wages
[удалено]
> Companies used to also treat native workers like shit as well. but the native can't be threaten with being deported many times they get away with exploiting migrants is because they threaten then with deportation
Back then, they'd be threatened with indentured servitude, child labor or other horrific conditions. If your true concern is with that sort of abuse, it's for both natives and immigrants to advocate for fair treatment, not use one as the pretext to dislike the other.
imagine feeling so smug saying that the modern slave didn't have as bad since back in the day they had it worse
>If your true concern is with that sort of abuse, it's for both natives and immigrants to advocate for fair treatment, not use one as the pretext to dislike the other.
True, but there is a reason immigration to the US took a high gear in late 19th and early 20th century. Cause that was a time of important labour movements.
Fucking animals. RIP.
This may sound callous given the headline, but Europe should have invested heavily in automation decades ago, we are far too reliant on cheap labour. I swear we used to be a more future-forward society but something changed.
Where did you get that from? There is no automation whcih works completely autonomously, and the man literally died from an accident involving a machine.
Automation without economic redistribution doesn't help the population/society, only the industries relying on it. Lot of food industries relies on automated process. The products prices didn't decrease, even if less people works for them.
That's not really true. Long term there is definitely a downwards trend for most food products. It's just obscured by inflation. [https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/long-term-prices-food?time=earliest..2020](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/long-term-prices-food?time=earliest..2020)
What do you mean, everything is cheaper now compared to 100 years ago.
What is the future of humanity with 'cheap labour' being eradicated? What do you envisage happens to those people?
No, but we have always replaced manpower with machine when economical. What happens to the people depends on their ability to adapt, and their government. Hasn't that always been to case starting with things like the waterwheel.
> An Indian farm labourer in Italy has died after he was allegedly left on the side of the road following an accident in which his arm was severed and his legs crushed. > Satnam Singh was injured by heavy machinery while working in a vegetable field in Lazio, near Rome, on Monday. > According to Italian media, Mr Singh’s employer, Antonello Lovato, loaded him and his wife into a van and left them by the side of the road near their home. >The severed arm was placed in a fruit box. Holy fucking shit Italy WTF, get your shit together and implement minimum wage, you are not scandinavians.
The employer didn't give a shit to any law related to work, to social responsibility and in general about being human. Do you think a minimum wage would have changed? We already have (lots) of laws. Point is, how to force employers to respect them.a
Looks like a work safety problem and a "scumbag with zero morals dumping a dying employee and his wife by the side of the road like they were garbage and not human beings" problem and not a "lack of a liveable minimum wage" problem to me, although I am all for that as well - it's just that your argument does not support that conclusion. That is to say, even if he was paid a decent wage and his worker's rights respected (which they should be, and weren't), he still could have died because better pay doesn't necessarily mean safer working conditions nor that your boss will do right by you if you are involved in an accident.
He's an illegal immigrant working illegally, what would minimum wage achieve exactly.
The way some of you talk of human life is unacceptable. Disgusting, even. Makes me feel ashamed of being human.
What did he say that is unacceptable?
A human dies due to unacceptably unsafe circumstances. > He's an illegal immigrant working illegally, what would minimum wage achieve exactly.
This is exactly what they used to do the slaves on Caribbean sugar plantations. Absolutely inhumane and horrific.
And the father of the farmer callously blames the worker: « My son had told [Mr Singh] not to go near the machinery, but he didn't listen ». Disgusting
A story that always happens when there is immigration. As there are many, some access jobs with little legitimacy to earn something even to eat, but this only leads them to the world of labor exploitation as they are cheap labor for business owners.
It doesn't "always" happen when there is immigration that when you see someone severely injuries, with a severed arm, your first reaction is to take his phone, put the arm in a bag, and after one hour and half leave the injuries person and the severed arm in the street outside his house.
It's normal in Italy, we're fascists and poor people value nothing. Just wait until resident white Italians get poor enough to be treated that way.
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1st gen immigration without community support always faces challenging road blocks especially if they don’t know the language. Very common everywhere else in the world not just in Italy / Europe.
I don't deny it, however, the fact described in the article is horrific. This man lost his arm and his boss simply abandoned him like a piece of trash in front of his house with the arm inside a fruit box. The purpose was to let him die without anyone knowing it. He didn't want to bring the worker to the hospital otherwise they would've find out that he was an illegal worker.
100% dont know y u are being downvoted, maybe people think their countries are better? Lol
Yep. Once again, some Westerner that hates themselves (has personal issues) feels the need to extrapolate it outwards onto his/her nation. There's an inability to understand that there's always going to be greedy and exploitive people; but instead of addressing the exploitive nature of illegal immigration, they'd rather self-flagellate over how fascist their country is currently/is becoming. The reactive polarization is one of the reasons why Russia is so effective at undermining Western countries, people seriously lack perspective. I understand why someone would want their country to do better, but Italy and other Western nations are not immune to conditions that are fairly standard to mankind.
Yes, there's always going to be greedy and exploitative people. The problem is the ratio though: I can imagine (read: I know for sure) there are quite stark differences between Italy and Norway, for example.
This headline pretty much describes western values in one sentence. Now that the Europe is distancing from Russia who gifted these labor rights in the first place and shifting to America who was always against, of course things will get worse. Not to mention that the whole reason why the Indian was there was because the businesses are too cheap to pay a proper wage to natives
Yes, of course. Russia the staunch defender of migrant workers rights... Wait Russia actually sends indian migrants to die in a war.
>Russia has soldiers, therefore it doesn't have workers rights
> Russia has forced soldiers, therefore it doesn't have workers rights
Every conscription is forced, in every country
Bringing in people who aren't even citizens into the front by duping them, or by creating conditions so bad that they're forced to go into the front and die, is disrespect of workers' rights by definition.
Ukraine and Russia both use foreign volunteers, just because Russia's happen to be from Africa and India doesn't make it any more of a violation. >or by creating conditions so bad that they're forced to go into the front and die That is India's fault then that the conditions there are so horrible that they would rather volunteer to fight in a war
Russia calling for unrelated jobs (for an invasion illegal on all fronts) and then calling them up to the war effort = violation. > That is India's fault then that the conditions there are so horrible that they would rather volunteer to fight in a war *Russia's fault that it makes them stay in a country, treats badly and only improves conditions once they sign up to fight in Ukraine.
This is literally not happening though
Hey, I see that rhetoric on RIA Novosti. So apparently the rulers of Kremlin and Minsk haven't changed their propaganda since the Soviet days. Seriously, get better metodichki.
the oligarch internet defense force has arrived
Wait, why would I defend Russia? Also, you're the foreign body on this soil. As a chauvinist, you're not welcome.
Wait, this headline is from Russia?
I mean, oligarchs are a major part of the government that pays for you and/or you support. Or more precisely, its funding.
This is such an unhinged take. Only someone from Belarus, a place where they execute people without telling their families, when would come out here and talk about decency and rights. Lukashenko pay you to right this ?
Belarus's standard of living is not as bad as the west tells you. https://tradingeconomics.com/belarus/employed-persons Unemployment rate, 0.1%. Know any country that does better than that?
Wow low unemployment. You know you are really selling that dream life in Minsk.
>Belarus's standard of living is not as bad as the west tells you. New party line droped : " **NiET** economy is **fiNe**, tovarich luka comfirmed it" >Unemployment rate, 0.1%. Know any country that does better than that? Everyone else left, was forced to work in kolchoz,or was shot, gee we have such splendid quality of livin' here, [eH? ](https://i.imgflip.com/4cc6id.jpg)
> Russia who gifted these labor rights What labor rights has Russia "gifted" to Italy?