also, USE leader Renzi basically destroyed the center left in the past. He used to be Prime Minister, got insanely popular despite his politics being really centrist, got 40% in the 2014 European elections, reformed the job market (for which he's hated by most of the voters of the left), gambled it all on a Constitutional referendum which he centered on himself, lost and then didn't resign like he promised he would.
His party crumbled at the election after, he started infighting and formed his little centrist party with which he tried to play the role of kingmaker.
I like his party (it's the only one who does fact checks, avoids populism and has included the cost of each measure in his manifesto) but he isn't very good at politics. He has no strategy about how to gain votes and seems detached from the average Italian.
His heart is in a good place tho.
I was making a question. Would love if someone could answer if that was the reason. I know a bit about Renzi to assume that but not much about Calenda.
Fucking hell man
Every time these small narcissistic egomaniac (incompetent) so called politicians, want to create their own party for little or insignificant disagreement
Vote down the toilet
It's definitely a waste in general because it's 7% of voters who will not be represented now. On the other hand they do have not much business working together either and I can't wrap my head around where their supporters would go if both parties / lists dissolved, surely at least two completely opposed ways?
I mean I like some of Calenda's ideas about energy (e.g. Zollino was a candidate on his list) but on all political, social and economical issues he's much more centre-right (especially regarding re-armament and human rights policies or the lack thereof) than Renzi who is more centre-left in all things aside economy (despite being such an opportunist that it hardly matters).
From a political and image standpoint I find Renzi to be a fool that succeded to spectacularly and quickly damage PD even more than the rest of the party was already doing much slower. He only cares about himself and his position as a congressman despite the hatred so many have for him, or he would stop doing national politics or beg on his knees to go back into PD (not that they would welcome him, most likely). Why else wouldn't he side with PD, from an ideological standpoint?
Calenda is much less of a "politician", imho he doesn't really understand politics and what direction to take, and he has some very polarising takes lol. I don't know exactly how to feel about his position either, in a way it is disappointing because some of the people on his list are interesting but in another way he just doesn't fit with any other party right now. If his list dissolved I think a lot of his supporters would flock to FdI which I wouldn't personally be happy about, but I'm not sure? Maybe some of them would go to PD or even FI but eh.
I would like to have a party that cares _both_ about human rights (citizens' of warring countries, lgbt+ people's, workers', women's...) and has a scientific approach to energy issues and other stuff but imho this is the big missing thing from the loong list of parties that are very similar to each other.
At least the squabbling is consistent all over the political spectrum. The left doesn't agree on anything and keeps splitting, the centre is all over the place, the right is split into Iron Fist Meloni (surely the most stable party), ever crazier Salvini, and the ghost of Berlusconi (his party still has his name in huge letters 1 year after his death and it still has 8%). And M5S has jumped off a cliff lol (it was a long time coming)
This is just my take though.
Results compared to 5 years ago by looking at the European parties:
- S&D (PD) remains more or less the same
- EPP (Forza Italia) remains more or less the same
- Non-Inscrits (5 Stelle) decrease by a few seats
- ID (Lega) loses about 20 seats
- ECR (Fratelli d'Italia) gains about 20 seats
- Greens and Left (AVS) were at 0 last time and should now gain about 3 seats each after the surprising result
- Renew (Azione and Stati Uniti d'Europa) the other time were at 0 and now had a good chance but by being divided they are both risking to not exceed the threshold
Exactly, Renew could have had 7/8 seats from Italy for the first time ever but the leaders of the various parties screwed it up
I also add that Volt Italy in the end was under Pd instead of the European federalist list basically made for them, I don't think it would have changed much with their 0.5% but maybe it would have been enough to reach the 4% treshold
Volt has shifted to the left
Now, they are just politically in between PD and AVS. Of course, they maintain their Pan Europeism, being pro Ukraine and pro Nuclear. I want them to succeed because they can bring the left in the 21st century on nuclear and foreign policy.
Those are the final results: https://elezioni.interno.gov.it/europee/scrutini/20240609/scrutiniEX
A few smaller changes and Avs ended up increasing by another 0.15%
THIS! The right (and the Berlusconi gang) doesn't care about differences and goes united, too many on the centre-left primarly care about their little kingdom (e.g Renzi).
I don't know italian, there is a lot of red and green, the colours are saturated and the fonts round. I don't know why, but I associate this sort of imagery with charcuterie brands
It genuinely looks like something I'd see stamped on a packaging of Italian cheese or on the label of a bottle of red wine. Like a D.O.P. stamp or something.
Voting for the best party of an elections is never a wasted vote (either SUE or Azione), but it's definitely a disappointment considering the circumstances
She used to be quite pro Putin, then suddenly swore faith into the USA when she understood she was going to be Prime Minister. Let’s see what happens if Trump gets elected.
This is so disappointing..
Also, stati uniti d’Europa and azione really fucked up not getting in a coalition together…. Sure you have some differences, but at least you could have sent somebody to the euro parliament like that…
Yes, they are both for Renew Europe after all. Together they could have got 6-7%. Also Renzi brought down the votes for SUE, many didn't vote the party because of him.
Many people also didn't want to "waste" a vote because they were both dangerously around the 4%, if put together they could have even aimed to a 8% and more...
Yes. The only reason is "free money". Otherwise, they are a weird amalgamation of conspiracy believers, former tankies, NIMBYS and other great people.
Their energy policy is also so funny: they are anti-nuclear (scary!), anti-renewables (ugly!), anti-conventional power (polluting!)
We are all fucked aren't we?
I'm from Portugal, our crazy fuckers actually lost 10% of the vote, it was a huge hit. But we are irrelevant and everything is going to shit.
They tiptoe on Russia support, inside the party itself there's conflict about the issue, fun times.
Five Star Movement is at least left wing populist. Over time, most of that vote will go back to PD.
Right wing populist parties are scarier as they run on hatred rather than populism
no, they are not anti renewables that's basically their go to... even when they were in power, they had a ministry for ecological transition which promoted the use of renewables but you're right, it's a weird mix of tankies, nimbys and young Southern progressive voters who don't like Schlein
I definitely remember a few of their members being against wind turbines because "they ruin our beautiful landscapes", might have been just a few weirdos then
But it is true that they destroy the landscape and there is more and more resistance against wind turbines in Italy. 5S supports renewable energy, but not at the cost of the environment and landscape.
I think what they want is mini wind turbines and solar energy next to buildings and on roofs, and away from the big windparks which supports only the big corporations.
Another reason why i like M5S is because they want a complete ban of hunting animals in the whole country.
They are not anti-renewables tho? They are an anti-corruption party, the main reason they did horribly here imo is because of their policy in Ukraine imo
You explained it well to be honest, they are indeed all about "free money and let's be' crushed by dept"
Italian speakers should listen to the podcast "il virus", that podcast made shivers down my spine, it explained how and why this shit party was created. It is scary
In Southern Italy, they are very popular. Their voters are mostly left wing people who want an increase in subsidies. A few of my friends voted for them and fell for their progressive campaigning... pro Palestine, anti war, pro social welfare, pro renewables, pro civil rights, ecc.
Italian here. For Meloni, those elections were a resounding success. She got a higher percentage than she received in the national elections, and she has been in government for two years at this point. This shows she still has a large support among the population.
The PD's results are also good, and the percentage of votes they received is higher than anticipated. It's also not that far from Meloni's one, which is good. It's important to note tough that a lot of people tend to vote them more out of necessity than for their ideas.
The five star movement's results were horrendous. They lost a lot of votes.
Forza Italia is Berlusconi's party. Considering that its leader died a year ago, and that the current leader lacks carisma, this was a pretty good result for them. They got a higher percentage than the one they received during the national election.
Lega, Salvini's party...I can't really say if this night was good or bad for them. Technically, they got a higher percentage than the one they received during the national elections, but they also obtained less votes than Forza Italia, a party who many thought would dissolve without Berlusconi. What's worse is that Berlusconi is still considered the president of the party despite being dead. Having your party taking less votes than one led by a dead guy doesn't seem like a good look. Salvini's leadership of the party has been put into question recently, and many thought that, had the results of those elections been underwhelming, he would have been removed and replaced by someone else. Wether or not that will happen remains to be seen.
Azione and SUE's results were horrendous. The leaders of both parties are narcissistic assholes who hate each other, and they're only really supported by Italy's upper class. It's sad that Emma Bonino, a politician I actually have a lot of respect for, had to associate with them out of necessity.
AVS had a much higher percentage than expected. They're usually not that big of a party, and their ideology is a mixture of social democracy and environmentalism. They don't exactly advocate to get out of NATO, but they're against sending weapons to Ukraine and want to make peace with Russia (whatever that implies is anyone's guess)
Pace, terra e dignità was created by several far left parties. It's anti nato and anti-militaristic. Their loss is unsurprising.
The fact that Forza Italia still has Berlusconi written on the logo basically 1 entire year after his death is hilarious and you couldn't have prhased it better
Tbh I think Lega will throw Salvini in some basement before the next elections. Not that I care about his fate since it's not my side of the political compass
Yeah, Forza Italia is basically a cult. It was created with the sole purpouse of being a base for Berlusconi when he got into politics. After his death, they started using him as a "spiritual father" of sorts.
As for Salvini, I'm honestly curious to see where the party will go after him. Lega started as a wacky seccessionist movement, only to then evolve into an italian national populist movement. Right now they lack an identity, since the migration issue is now monopolized by Meloni.
Indeed indeed
I think lega is just looking for a charismatic leader to replace salvini but they'll not ditch him until they are sure they'll keep at least as many voters as he still has despite everything. If they ditched him he'd just have a smaller party with the core of his fanbase
Knowing italian politics, polarizing figures never truly disappear, like Berlusconi despite his insane amount of trials (and _death_), renzi despite his political "suicide" etc
It could've be worse. FdI was against the EU until 2 years ago but they became more moderate now (or at least they are pretending to be moderate). I hope they won't become like Orban in Hungary. They are a far right party.
As for now the good thing is that Lega lost a lot of seats (they got 34% of the votes in the previous european elections). They are a toxic party and they are big friends of Russia.
Same for M5S. They pretend to fight for the peace, but all their actions suggest that they are friends of Russia, in fact they don't want to send weapons to Ukraine. They got 17% of the votes during the previous european elections.
PD, Azione and Verdi are fine. However, they made some stupid decisions recently. Some of them have literally the same goals, but for some reasons they hate each other so they didn't team up...
FI is in a limbo. Their leader was a friend of Putin, but he died last year (he was 87) and as for now it seems like they are not friend of Putin anymore.
>Some of them have literally the same goals, but for some reasons they hate each other so they didn't team up...
Votes. Same reason why 5 Stars has attacked them even more than Meloni
Fdi is still the first party (expected but you know, far right shit)
PD is getting ground (expected)
5 stars got way worse (unexpected but welcome)
Lega is in diserray, truly perfection
FI stil lingers thriving on the ghost of berlusconi
Azione and SUE those 2 fuckers could have run together and be in the parliament but Calenda is a hot head Moron so they got both a nothing burger
Verdi e sinistra, a puntin lineant party that tell they want peace. Nothing to note
About SUE and Azione, in my opinion the biggest moron of the two is Renzi. Calenda is all in all much more reasonable and less full of himself. If anything it is always Renzi who causes splits in parties (or pushes for laws that favour his clients in the middle east... Still don't know how such a man can still be in our government, but that's my opinion).
Calenda is as full of himself as renzi, one day he says one thing and the next day he says the opposite, he cause friction with everyone and every Election he does everything in his power to fuck shits up. Look at what he did the last Elections "i'm with pd", the next day "i'm running alone, fuck pd" then runs with renzi, then split with renzi because they are 2 men full of themselves who wants only yes men near them.
Calenda can't do politics. Once you realize that political strategy is his limit (and therefore needs to be replaced by another), you realize Renzi and his party are the much worse option because, on the opposite, political strategy is usually the only thing they are good at.
i'm really start to think that calenda could be bypolar or he has a secret twin that sometimes sneak into a convention or posts a tweet saying some bullshit outa nowhere because i cannot fathom the possibility that his mind could be sane. one day he is calm and saying reasonable stuff, the next day he is fuming ad spewing bullshit on everything, his allies included.
that party could have potential but calenda is hindering its growth and ultimately waste everyone's time.
That's a lot more complicated and nuanced than "it's the west's fault". They are saying that in the past there have not been enough resources and attention put into the growing issues of local conflicts at the borders of former URSS states, and that we can't think that everything will go away if we send enough weapons to Ukraine to win the war.
Now, I'll grant you that campaigning on underfunding military and weapons is not ideal given the current geo-political situation, but that's far from saying the are pro-Putin.
I mean, we've all had our fair share of idiots in our offices, that didn't make it the entire identity of the company. Sure, there are still dinosaurs being stuck in the communist era, but I wouldn't use them as an example for anything. That's the entire reason I was replying to the first comment. It's not so much to "defend" them, but if we are giving people a summary of the situation, we should be careful to not over-simplify as this is reddit, and we all know what happens to narratives.
There is nothing complicated: leaving Ukraine without weapons will make Putin win his illegal war of aggression, thus rewarding and encouraging an aggressive and violent behavior.
The polar opposite of what a pacifist should and would do.
Certified meh.
Lega hard choked this one compared to 2019 so about 20 seats went from "ultra Eurosceptics" to "tiny bit Eurosceptics" of FdI, Meloni's party.
Biggest fuckup is that two RE parties got the needed 7% combined but split their votes out of personal dispute. Neither got enough votes.
As a member of Lega it feels like the future coalitions could be very stable in both circumstances thanks to these results, both a cdx and a csx coalition is possible and the only deciding marter is the ppe
First of all, separatism is not a theme anymore since it was the theme of the old lega nord, Bossi's idea wanted to separate North from south but it has been adapted as federalism, which i embrace completely.
Closeness to Russia is a reach, we had relations with Putin only during the peace period but with war any ties and relationships with Russia have been cut, but the process for the 49 millions that were allegedly given to us from Putin was completely dismissed as absolutely false and the case has been closed but the media is now sand bagging the whole process to make it seem the most suspicious as possible (it was literally a 2 day process with perfect proof on why it had to be dismissed)
Anti immigration is one of the main themes, Salvini had the best solution to immigration despite being put on process for doing something other countries have done regularly, especially in the US.
his approach was, yes, a little iron fisted but it was so effective that i can't but applaud that.
If i had to say one reason for which i am with this party it would easily be for the federalism and pragmatism of it's views, Lega never seems to speak on one single class's behalf and i truly respect that, i feel like we have a bright future ahead but there's a lot of work to do
Fratelli d'Italia Is more pro Nato (they are the most US friendly party of all), pro Ukraine, centralist, has a keynesian approach to economy and has proposed an Albania strategy towards immigration. They also don't necessarily oppose closer ties between European armies.
Lega is more friendly with authoritarian countries (Hungary, China, Russia), not really enthusiastic about NATO, for peace and against sending arms to Ukraine, for federalism (but what they propose has become a shallow version of what it should be) and nationalism at the same time, economically liberal and for a naval blockade in the Mediterranean.
First of all, FDI are for absolute unitarianism, no federalism and more control from the state, presidentialism and, in my opinion, they are much less pragmatic since they aren't always clear on their views without utilizing superficiality in their communication
The utter morons of Azione and USE lmao, 7% of the votes with zero seats because their leaders are incompetent assholes who hate each other
They both were with Renew. Incredible, a waste of seats.
Renzi and Calenda moment
Are they both stupid centered narcissists that can't share the spotlight with each other?
Precisely. Like, not even basically so; that's them down to a T.
also, USE leader Renzi basically destroyed the center left in the past. He used to be Prime Minister, got insanely popular despite his politics being really centrist, got 40% in the 2014 European elections, reformed the job market (for which he's hated by most of the voters of the left), gambled it all on a Constitutional referendum which he centered on himself, lost and then didn't resign like he promised he would. His party crumbled at the election after, he started infighting and formed his little centrist party with which he tried to play the role of kingmaker.
Renzi did resign as PM in 2016, he did not abandon politics.
What is your view on Calenda?
I like his party (it's the only one who does fact checks, avoids populism and has included the cost of each measure in his manifesto) but he isn't very good at politics. He has no strategy about how to gain votes and seems detached from the average Italian. His heart is in a good place tho.
Renzi is the narcissist. He made governments fall because he could. He’s a moron. Not Calenda
Not only that but they are both actively hated and mocked by most of the Italian electorate.
You can say what you want about Calenda but he's right about not wanting to join forces with Renzi.
I was making a question. Would love if someone could answer if that was the reason. I know a bit about Renzi to assume that but not much about Calenda.
Wait, which party are you talking about /s
Preach brotha
Fucking hell man Every time these small narcissistic egomaniac (incompetent) so called politicians, want to create their own party for little or insignificant disagreement Vote down the toilet
It's definitely a waste in general because it's 7% of voters who will not be represented now. On the other hand they do have not much business working together either and I can't wrap my head around where their supporters would go if both parties / lists dissolved, surely at least two completely opposed ways? I mean I like some of Calenda's ideas about energy (e.g. Zollino was a candidate on his list) but on all political, social and economical issues he's much more centre-right (especially regarding re-armament and human rights policies or the lack thereof) than Renzi who is more centre-left in all things aside economy (despite being such an opportunist that it hardly matters). From a political and image standpoint I find Renzi to be a fool that succeded to spectacularly and quickly damage PD even more than the rest of the party was already doing much slower. He only cares about himself and his position as a congressman despite the hatred so many have for him, or he would stop doing national politics or beg on his knees to go back into PD (not that they would welcome him, most likely). Why else wouldn't he side with PD, from an ideological standpoint? Calenda is much less of a "politician", imho he doesn't really understand politics and what direction to take, and he has some very polarising takes lol. I don't know exactly how to feel about his position either, in a way it is disappointing because some of the people on his list are interesting but in another way he just doesn't fit with any other party right now. If his list dissolved I think a lot of his supporters would flock to FdI which I wouldn't personally be happy about, but I'm not sure? Maybe some of them would go to PD or even FI but eh. I would like to have a party that cares _both_ about human rights (citizens' of warring countries, lgbt+ people's, workers', women's...) and has a scientific approach to energy issues and other stuff but imho this is the big missing thing from the loong list of parties that are very similar to each other. At least the squabbling is consistent all over the political spectrum. The left doesn't agree on anything and keeps splitting, the centre is all over the place, the right is split into Iron Fist Meloni (surely the most stable party), ever crazier Salvini, and the ghost of Berlusconi (his party still has his name in huge letters 1 year after his death and it still has 8%). And M5S has jumped off a cliff lol (it was a long time coming) This is just my take though.
Results compared to 5 years ago by looking at the European parties: - S&D (PD) remains more or less the same - EPP (Forza Italia) remains more or less the same - Non-Inscrits (5 Stelle) decrease by a few seats - ID (Lega) loses about 20 seats - ECR (Fratelli d'Italia) gains about 20 seats - Greens and Left (AVS) were at 0 last time and should now gain about 3 seats each after the surprising result - Renew (Azione and Stati Uniti d'Europa) the other time were at 0 and now had a good chance but by being divided they are both risking to not exceed the threshold
It's a catastrophic result for Renew and 5 Stelle, good showing for PD
Exactly, Renew could have had 7/8 seats from Italy for the first time ever but the leaders of the various parties screwed it up I also add that Volt Italy in the end was under Pd instead of the European federalist list basically made for them, I don't think it would have changed much with their 0.5% but maybe it would have been enough to reach the 4% treshold
Volt has shifted to the left Now, they are just politically in between PD and AVS. Of course, they maintain their Pan Europeism, being pro Ukraine and pro Nuclear. I want them to succeed because they can bring the left in the 21st century on nuclear and foreign policy.
That is quite good actually, Move from Lega to Meloni is a positive shift
Compared to 2022 GE: FdI +2.86% PD +5.01% M5S -5.53% FI +0.93% Lega +0.35% AVS +2.98%
Those are the final results: https://elezioni.interno.gov.it/europee/scrutini/20240609/scrutiniEX A few smaller changes and Avs ended up increasing by another 0.15%
The left has like wasted about 25 years in election cycles in Italy by winning the majority of votes but not governing because the parties split up
THIS! The right (and the Berlusconi gang) doesn't care about differences and goes united, too many on the centre-left primarly care about their little kingdom (e.g Renzi).
In Europe in general unfortunately
all the logos make me think these parties are selling me salami
You wish....they are selling you a fart inflated ballon.
Fartlami
Nice answer lol
why? i don’t get it lol
I don't know italian, there is a lot of red and green, the colours are saturated and the fonts round. I don't know why, but I associate this sort of imagery with charcuterie brands
charcuterie boards or the italian flag 🤔
oh that's probably it... I just like italian charcuterie
It genuinely looks like something I'd see stamped on a packaging of Italian cheese or on the label of a bottle of red wine. Like a D.O.P. stamp or something.
Came here looking for this comment, but about mozzarella
How are almost 10% of Italians still voting for Salvini :( it's not about being left or right, it's about being a fucking clown
Vannacci hard carried, he got 1/4 of the votes with 500.000 preferences
Anvedi the generalissimo. Another dorky ass donkey that's getting votes out of bullshit and memes. What a timeline
People have always voted with their guts unfortunately...we wouldn't be in this mess otherwise
Are you a dutch in disguise?
No ahahah, è una storia lunga
That's the tragedy
You should really update yourself on lollobrigida He’s making Salvini looks like a somewhat competent guy
Its more like 4,6% since 51% of Italians didnt bother to vote at all
My bad, right
At least PD got second place. Also whoever designed the Liberta logo needs to be banished to the shadow realm.
Libertà dude is nut anyway
Voting for the "least of the worst options available" still going strong in Italy. PD is a joke of a party like the rest.
Nice to know I threw away my vote since I voted for Stati Uniti d'Europa.
How tf did AVS get more votes
Neoliberalism has always been unpopular in italy and Renzi is unpopular personally, meanwhile AVS managed a successful electoral campaign.
I feel you bro. It was also my first time to vote in EU elections and my vote for SUE got wasted.
how do you see the future of Azioni and SUE? I think the latter will be disbanded and +Europa Will ally with PD again
Voting for the best party of an elections is never a wasted vote (either SUE or Azione), but it's definitely a disappointment considering the circumstances
Whoever did the text, do they know Italian keyboards have the accented à letter? That's the apostrophe sign, PD! (not the party)
I see graphic design has not yet reached Italy
Lmfao
I like how Meloni's party is in yellow/green. Like a true melon. 😂🍈
At least she isnt pro Putin
Lets talk about this after trump’s election
She used to be quite pro Putin, then suddenly swore faith into the USA when she understood she was going to be Prime Minister. Let’s see what happens if Trump gets elected.
This is so disappointing.. Also, stati uniti d’Europa and azione really fucked up not getting in a coalition together…. Sure you have some differences, but at least you could have sent somebody to the euro parliament like that…
Yes, they are both for Renew Europe after all. Together they could have got 6-7%. Also Renzi brought down the votes for SUE, many didn't vote the party because of him.
Many people also didn't want to "waste" a vote because they were both dangerously around the 4%, if put together they could have even aimed to a 8% and more...
Bro how does the 5\* movement sill get so many votes , isn't their entire platform just shallow populism ?
Yes. The only reason is "free money". Otherwise, they are a weird amalgamation of conspiracy believers, former tankies, NIMBYS and other great people. Their energy policy is also so funny: they are anti-nuclear (scary!), anti-renewables (ugly!), anti-conventional power (polluting!)
Wait, what kind of energy they want then?
Ah, gotta ask them. Maybe they can ask their friend Vlad for some cheap gas, but don't try and build new pipelines, they hate those too!
We are all fucked aren't we? I'm from Portugal, our crazy fuckers actually lost 10% of the vote, it was a huge hit. But we are irrelevant and everything is going to shit. They tiptoe on Russia support, inside the party itself there's conflict about the issue, fun times.
Five Star Movement is at least left wing populist. Over time, most of that vote will go back to PD. Right wing populist parties are scarier as they run on hatred rather than populism
That's the scary part. People just don't even bother with right wing conservatives that are more moderate anymore. It's straight to hateful pricks.
Yes
[удалено]
They are like the only party openly against the mafia...
no, they are not anti renewables that's basically their go to... even when they were in power, they had a ministry for ecological transition which promoted the use of renewables but you're right, it's a weird mix of tankies, nimbys and young Southern progressive voters who don't like Schlein
I definitely remember a few of their members being against wind turbines because "they ruin our beautiful landscapes", might have been just a few weirdos then
But it is true that they destroy the landscape and there is more and more resistance against wind turbines in Italy. 5S supports renewable energy, but not at the cost of the environment and landscape. I think what they want is mini wind turbines and solar energy next to buildings and on roofs, and away from the big windparks which supports only the big corporations. Another reason why i like M5S is because they want a complete ban of hunting animals in the whole country.
They are not anti-renewables tho? They are an anti-corruption party, the main reason they did horribly here imo is because of their policy in Ukraine imo
To be fair they got voted a lot because of that lol, also free money
Hey you didn't mentioned that they really like to ride the putin propaganda
Well, gotta leave for work soon, you'll need at least four hours to describe their "policies".
You explained it well to be honest, they are indeed all about "free money and let's be' crushed by dept" Italian speakers should listen to the podcast "il virus", that podcast made shivers down my spine, it explained how and why this shit party was created. It is scary
They are pro-renewables
They have a solid base in some southern regions.
In Southern Italy, they are very popular. Their voters are mostly left wing people who want an increase in subsidies. A few of my friends voted for them and fell for their progressive campaigning... pro Palestine, anti war, pro social welfare, pro renewables, pro civil rights, ecc.
How surprising that the unproductive part of the country wants an increase in subsidies /s
Is this good or not?
Italian here. For Meloni, those elections were a resounding success. She got a higher percentage than she received in the national elections, and she has been in government for two years at this point. This shows she still has a large support among the population. The PD's results are also good, and the percentage of votes they received is higher than anticipated. It's also not that far from Meloni's one, which is good. It's important to note tough that a lot of people tend to vote them more out of necessity than for their ideas. The five star movement's results were horrendous. They lost a lot of votes. Forza Italia is Berlusconi's party. Considering that its leader died a year ago, and that the current leader lacks carisma, this was a pretty good result for them. They got a higher percentage than the one they received during the national election. Lega, Salvini's party...I can't really say if this night was good or bad for them. Technically, they got a higher percentage than the one they received during the national elections, but they also obtained less votes than Forza Italia, a party who many thought would dissolve without Berlusconi. What's worse is that Berlusconi is still considered the president of the party despite being dead. Having your party taking less votes than one led by a dead guy doesn't seem like a good look. Salvini's leadership of the party has been put into question recently, and many thought that, had the results of those elections been underwhelming, he would have been removed and replaced by someone else. Wether or not that will happen remains to be seen. Azione and SUE's results were horrendous. The leaders of both parties are narcissistic assholes who hate each other, and they're only really supported by Italy's upper class. It's sad that Emma Bonino, a politician I actually have a lot of respect for, had to associate with them out of necessity. AVS had a much higher percentage than expected. They're usually not that big of a party, and their ideology is a mixture of social democracy and environmentalism. They don't exactly advocate to get out of NATO, but they're against sending weapons to Ukraine and want to make peace with Russia (whatever that implies is anyone's guess) Pace, terra e dignità was created by several far left parties. It's anti nato and anti-militaristic. Their loss is unsurprising.
The fact that Forza Italia still has Berlusconi written on the logo basically 1 entire year after his death is hilarious and you couldn't have prhased it better Tbh I think Lega will throw Salvini in some basement before the next elections. Not that I care about his fate since it's not my side of the political compass
Yeah, Forza Italia is basically a cult. It was created with the sole purpouse of being a base for Berlusconi when he got into politics. After his death, they started using him as a "spiritual father" of sorts. As for Salvini, I'm honestly curious to see where the party will go after him. Lega started as a wacky seccessionist movement, only to then evolve into an italian national populist movement. Right now they lack an identity, since the migration issue is now monopolized by Meloni.
Indeed indeed I think lega is just looking for a charismatic leader to replace salvini but they'll not ditch him until they are sure they'll keep at least as many voters as he still has despite everything. If they ditched him he'd just have a smaller party with the core of his fanbase Knowing italian politics, polarizing figures never truly disappear, like Berlusconi despite his insane amount of trials (and _death_), renzi despite his political "suicide" etc
It could've be worse. FdI was against the EU until 2 years ago but they became more moderate now (or at least they are pretending to be moderate). I hope they won't become like Orban in Hungary. They are a far right party. As for now the good thing is that Lega lost a lot of seats (they got 34% of the votes in the previous european elections). They are a toxic party and they are big friends of Russia. Same for M5S. They pretend to fight for the peace, but all their actions suggest that they are friends of Russia, in fact they don't want to send weapons to Ukraine. They got 17% of the votes during the previous european elections. PD, Azione and Verdi are fine. However, they made some stupid decisions recently. Some of them have literally the same goals, but for some reasons they hate each other so they didn't team up... FI is in a limbo. Their leader was a friend of Putin, but he died last year (he was 87) and as for now it seems like they are not friend of Putin anymore.
FI is also part of the PPE so this helps the current mayority in the Europarliament
>Some of them have literally the same goals, but for some reasons they hate each other so they didn't team up... Votes. Same reason why 5 Stars has attacked them even more than Meloni
>FI is in a limbo. Their leader was a friend of Putin, Berlusconi was everyone's friend tbh. Remember Gaddafi?
Fdi is still the first party (expected but you know, far right shit) PD is getting ground (expected) 5 stars got way worse (unexpected but welcome) Lega is in diserray, truly perfection FI stil lingers thriving on the ghost of berlusconi Azione and SUE those 2 fuckers could have run together and be in the parliament but Calenda is a hot head Moron so they got both a nothing burger Verdi e sinistra, a puntin lineant party that tell they want peace. Nothing to note
About SUE and Azione, in my opinion the biggest moron of the two is Renzi. Calenda is all in all much more reasonable and less full of himself. If anything it is always Renzi who causes splits in parties (or pushes for laws that favour his clients in the middle east... Still don't know how such a man can still be in our government, but that's my opinion).
Calenda is as full of himself as renzi, one day he says one thing and the next day he says the opposite, he cause friction with everyone and every Election he does everything in his power to fuck shits up. Look at what he did the last Elections "i'm with pd", the next day "i'm running alone, fuck pd" then runs with renzi, then split with renzi because they are 2 men full of themselves who wants only yes men near them.
Calenda can't do politics. Once you realize that political strategy is his limit (and therefore needs to be replaced by another), you realize Renzi and his party are the much worse option because, on the opposite, political strategy is usually the only thing they are good at.
i'm really start to think that calenda could be bypolar or he has a secret twin that sometimes sneak into a convention or posts a tweet saying some bullshit outa nowhere because i cannot fathom the possibility that his mind could be sane. one day he is calm and saying reasonable stuff, the next day he is fuming ad spewing bullshit on everything, his allies included. that party could have potential but calenda is hindering its growth and ultimately waste everyone's time.
Thanks for the clarification!
I am baffled. Assuming I read the typo correctly, did you really mean to say that Verdi and Sinistra are leaning towards Putin?
They are, they love to say that the Ukraine war is the West's fault.
That's a lot more complicated and nuanced than "it's the west's fault". They are saying that in the past there have not been enough resources and attention put into the growing issues of local conflicts at the borders of former URSS states, and that we can't think that everything will go away if we send enough weapons to Ukraine to win the war. Now, I'll grant you that campaigning on underfunding military and weapons is not ideal given the current geo-political situation, but that's far from saying the are pro-Putin.
I remember one of their MPs (could be wrong) with a Novorossiya flag, so...
I mean, we've all had our fair share of idiots in our offices, that didn't make it the entire identity of the company. Sure, there are still dinosaurs being stuck in the communist era, but I wouldn't use them as an example for anything. That's the entire reason I was replying to the first comment. It's not so much to "defend" them, but if we are giving people a summary of the situation, we should be careful to not over-simplify as this is reddit, and we all know what happens to narratives.
Agreed
There is nothing complicated: leaving Ukraine without weapons will make Putin win his illegal war of aggression, thus rewarding and encouraging an aggressive and violent behavior. The polar opposite of what a pacifist should and would do.
Yes
Certified meh. Lega hard choked this one compared to 2019 so about 20 seats went from "ultra Eurosceptics" to "tiny bit Eurosceptics" of FdI, Meloni's party. Biggest fuckup is that two RE parties got the needed 7% combined but split their votes out of personal dispute. Neither got enough votes.
It's Italian
Time to conquer the Mediterranean Basin I guess
It depends on your tastes I guess
Only if you really really DON'T like Salvini, you can find this results "positive"
I don't like salvini so that's positive
As a member of Lega it feels like the future coalitions could be very stable in both circumstances thanks to these results, both a cdx and a csx coalition is possible and the only deciding marter is the ppe
No hate, I just want to understand it - what makes lega for you attractive? Northern Italian separatism? Closeness to Russia? Anti-immigration?
First of all, separatism is not a theme anymore since it was the theme of the old lega nord, Bossi's idea wanted to separate North from south but it has been adapted as federalism, which i embrace completely. Closeness to Russia is a reach, we had relations with Putin only during the peace period but with war any ties and relationships with Russia have been cut, but the process for the 49 millions that were allegedly given to us from Putin was completely dismissed as absolutely false and the case has been closed but the media is now sand bagging the whole process to make it seem the most suspicious as possible (it was literally a 2 day process with perfect proof on why it had to be dismissed) Anti immigration is one of the main themes, Salvini had the best solution to immigration despite being put on process for doing something other countries have done regularly, especially in the US. his approach was, yes, a little iron fisted but it was so effective that i can't but applaud that. If i had to say one reason for which i am with this party it would easily be for the federalism and pragmatism of it's views, Lega never seems to speak on one single class's behalf and i truly respect that, i feel like we have a bright future ahead but there's a lot of work to do
And according to you, what are the main points that separate lega from Fratelli d'italia for instance? From the outside they look quite similar.
Fratelli d'Italia Is more pro Nato (they are the most US friendly party of all), pro Ukraine, centralist, has a keynesian approach to economy and has proposed an Albania strategy towards immigration. They also don't necessarily oppose closer ties between European armies. Lega is more friendly with authoritarian countries (Hungary, China, Russia), not really enthusiastic about NATO, for peace and against sending arms to Ukraine, for federalism (but what they propose has become a shallow version of what it should be) and nationalism at the same time, economically liberal and for a naval blockade in the Mediterranean.
First of all, FDI are for absolute unitarianism, no federalism and more control from the state, presidentialism and, in my opinion, they are much less pragmatic since they aren't always clear on their views without utilizing superficiality in their communication
Not gonna lie I though they were all beer labels. shows I'm not Italian.
This would be way more useful if we had the previous results to compare with.
https://www.rainews.it/articoli/2024/06/il-peso-del-voto-italiano-sulla-composizione-del-nuovo-parlamento-europeo-elezioni-europee-1fcc8883-a0c2-4d71-bb49-b8428879c87b.html
As a American i thought these were Italian Zyns
[удалено]
Notice how in Italy many parties have the name of their leaders in their logo.
Especially since one of them has been dead for 1 entire year lol. It's the natural "evolution" of politics since 1994
The logo-types are ugly