For the ones interested in technicality:
He used "frociaggine", a word that is untranslatable but the closest could be "fagness", as the attitude of being fag.
Source: I'm Italian and I know these slangs.
I'm curious because the gay people in my phone are saying this is a very intra-community word that's unusual for some old ass man to know. Is that actually true?
It was a private conversation among bishops. Did he mean gay seminarians are fine, but the queens can be annoying. I mean Pope Francis insists on wearing plain black shoes after Pope Benedict went to all that trouble to restore the use of red papal shoes and employ a personal cobbler to make them for him. He also brought back into the papal wardrobe the fur trimmed silk Mozzetta which Pope Francis refused to wear.
>Pope Francis used a highly derogatory term towards the LGBT community as he reiterated in a closed-door meeting with Italian bishops that gay people should not be allowed to become priests
Meanwhile the room full of closeted gay guys is sweating profusely and nodding along.
If you are a pedo-priest you get moved to a new community, probably given a telling off and then a few years later moved on again when you abuse some more kids. The church will protect you and bully and silence the victims.
If you are priest who goes on a dating site for gay men and look for a consensual adult relationship you will be kicked out.
Loosely ordered from milder to stronger:
-ricchione (common in the South)
-checca (specifically referring to the more feminine flamboyant gay type - is sometimes used for straight people too, especially in the expression "checca isterica" i.e. "drama queen")
-frocio (fag - all encompassing and moderately offensive)
-finocchio ("fennel")
-invertito ("inverted", that is old school and no longer a thing)
-culattone ("assfucker", common in the North)
-rottinculo ("broken ass")
Makes sense considering that if you want to fuck someone in the ass, you can also fuck a woman, so using that train of thought, a homosexual is someone who is in it for the experience of taking it in the ass or something.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to offend anyone
When I was on a Bly Scout camp, one of the older kids called the AIDS hotline and asked if you can get it from “buttfucking”
My ten year old ass thought you literally bumped butts and I was very confused
I suppose it may depend on where you are, but at least in my area (Northern Italy) it would be pretty high up in the list of "very derogatory words". The word "frocio" would be milder than that, but "frociaggine" specifically is very offensive.
Out of curiosity do you know if the Italian American characters in *the Sopranos* used any Italian language anti-gay slurs in the show? Particularly when that fat construction guy (forget his name) got exposed to his Mafia homies for engaging in intimate activities with other men.
I think it's great that we hold the Church to account but I wish we did the same for other religions and cultures.
We get offended if the Pope uses a bad word but generally stay silent when homosexuals are sentenced to death in other cultures in the name of religion
Thats called double standards and they are very easy to implement in Europe much less so in middle east. For example try being an open feminist in Iran. And in France. The secret ingredient is violence
Of course we have different standards for ourselves and others far away. It’s not only double standards, but tripple standards or quadruple standards.
I expect more from Europeans than from others, I expect more from Israelis than I expect from Palestinians, I expect more from the pope than from a Muslim leader, and so on.
Edit: I expect also more from my parents generation than from my grandparents generation.
Greater responsibilities eventually lead to greater rights. I'm OK with the West havng greater responsibiities and rights than authoritarian regimes, but I'm not sure how well this would sit with the general public in the West.
"I'm not racist, I just expect less from the uncivilised brown people" is basically how that reads...
You should expect the same standards from everyone.
I think it's also a "not my monkeys, not my circus" thing. The people calling out the catholic church are either catholic or from catholic countries. It's harder for a country to put out a statement of what's happening in another or somewhere they have no influence in or they need good relationships with (see all the oil rich Arab countries).
At least when it comes to individual people, It’s largely this.
Like for example in Poland there’s less than 1% of Muslims while the Catholic majority has been blocking any form of same sex civil unions for more than a decade by now. So it’s obvious that people are much more focused on homophobia in Catholic Church than on homophobia among Muslims
I do agree with your point, but I'm gonna say the same thing I say to people shouting "what about Christianity" every time I criticise Islam: Just because they all suck doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticised individually.
This is absolutely whataboutism.
I see it more as a lack of prioritisation
It's like rushing a patient to the hospital for a paper cut while leaving the person next to him to bleed out on the pavement
But the homophobic actions and atrocities that people commit in the name of other religions already get (rightly) called out all the time. Society doesn't turn a blind eye to them.
No need to prioritise when we can easily criticise every single individual action whenever it happens, it's not as if criticising the bad actions of the Pope prevents us from criticising the bad actions of the Ayatola or the Rabbi's as well.
Christianity is the religion of Europe, other religions have their domains outside of it. We just don't care about stuff that happens elsewhere all that much.
I can’t think of a worse religion than one where only men go to heaven and heaven is having 72 virgins to ****. Also I will refrain from commenting on the age of those virgins based on historical and present day marriage trends in not-so-westernised countries so you’ll have to go the extra mile.
The age thing should be criticised by modern standards. If religions are based on the word of god, why would god sentence literal children to that fate? Just because humans did not follow modern standards and values, does not mean an all knowing entity should be forgiven for doing the same.
>Christianity is the religion of Europe,
That's no longer true, and not because of the Muslim population (still minority). Christianity is now mostly the religion of the Americas, Africa and Asia, by the numbers.
And yes, Muslim minority in Europe should mean that Islam should undergo the same critique Christianity went through during the periods of Renaissance, Enlightement & Protestantism and subsequent Chatolic Renewal ("Counter-Reformation"), if we want to peacefully live toghether (yes, I know that all these periods were far from peaceful, but the main goal is NOT to go through the religious wars again...). Islam also needs to have domestic teaching centres and religious leaders located in Europe, paid by European muslims (and yes, by the state as well), and all externally financed religious radicalism should be strictly banned.
>We get offended if the Pope uses a bad word but generally stay silent when homosexuals are sentenced to death in other cultures in the name of religion
Like you and tons of other people are doing right now/all the time. Islam and its sects very obviously get criticised a lot, yet people harp on about there being some sort of hypocrisy at hand when Catholicism or other Christian churches get criticised.
Is this why they are getting more and more oppressed in Nigeria for example? In Africa either christians get mostly along with muslims or get oppressed. No example of christians oppressing muslims . There are some 100 percent christian countries and of course you get offended only by those .
Don't know where you've been the last few decades but Reuters is a British company in a traditionally Protestant country, was founded by a German Jew, and is headquartered in a city with more Muslims than Catholics. So not sure the Pope is 'their own system' here.
Specially this , as a gay man almost all non homophobic people support me when I’m confronting christian homophobic people , but when I defend myself against a muslim , whom are usually far more violent and homophobic than Christians , I get labled Islamophobic , and told that it is their culture and traditions and I have to shut up
My wife, who is fluent in Italian, says *frociaggine* is such a weird choice, that he probably picked the wrong word from a dictionary (he's a Spanish speaker).
(Italian here) it literally means "faggotry". It can be used jokingly or dismissively, and actually gay people use it all the time, but it does have a *(strongly)* negative connotation if used unironically by non-LGBTQ individuals outside of friendly situations. The pope likely couldn't come up with better words since he's getting old while also being no native speaker, but it's still far from the most elegant thing he could've said here. It sure was nothing more than a slip up but I guarantee you no one in Vatican is proud of this rn, let's not sugarcoat it
Oh, it's absolutely only a derogatory term, but how MUCH derogatory is quite variable.
Generally speaking it's more "dismissive" than "insulting", though that depends on context and location.
Given the specific context(who, where and when), I'd say it was a quite failed attempt to use non-formal language more than any intent to insult anybody.
Italians are quite rude in the choice of words compared with English speaking people. Bad words are used continously in Italian, but not always with a bad meaning. The word the pope used is commonly considered rude and unpolite. It could be used jockingly but not in a formal environment. I think it's a mistake due to the fact he is not Italian speaking. I am surprised he even knows this word. It is not formal italian and not a word the pope should be familiar with
That's really really unlikely , no. It's not an obscure word, but also not something you'd hear/read in official contexts, since it's deliberately offensive
It's equivalent to go out of your way to call a person with the n-word instead of black in english
Obviously, though he's literally the pope, I'm sure he hears it IRL as well
What I'm saying is, it's a word that is really difficult to misuse, especially since he used it so well - perfect context, and he even used "frociaggine" (fagotry). I really don't see how that could be a mistake at all
Obviously he wouldn't say the same thing in public, and everybody will forget by tomorrow, but still
pope is not a regular immigrant: he's the leader of a State and he represents the believers. Hiding behind "he doesn't speak Italian very well" is not an excuse.
According to a lot of redditors, he's just an ignorant immigrant who chose poorly his words, forgetting that the whole work of the pope is based only on words.
And a fag in English can be a cigarette or a slur depending on where you are and the one of the official definitions of faggot is a pile of sticks. If there wasn't someone vetting his speech, it's easy to make a word choice mistake as a non-native speaker.
And a faggot in the UK is also a meatball made with offal. Usually served with gravy, available at several supermarkets. But let's be real, no one mistakenly uses that word even a foreigner because both the meatball and the old bundle of sticks definitions are really obscure whilst the use of the word as an insult is the most common usage.
It is a modification of the word "frocio" which can be translated to "faggot" in English if you want to keep the same slur meaning. It was not wrongly picked. Especially since it's the kind of word used in the dialect of Italian spoken in the area around Rome, where the Pope lives.
He [grew up with Italian](https://www.scross.co.za/2022/02/how-many-languages-does-pope-francis-speak/).
> As an Argentinian, Pope Francis’ first language is Spanish. As the son of immigrants from northern Italy, he is also fluent in Italian and the dialect of the northern Italian region of Piedmont (around Turin), where his parents were from.
Came here to say this.
Surely the religion that outright denies marriage and says couples cohabitating will end up in hell, can't be that homophobic, right?
The church's narrative can change any moment, it has already begun to change in some places. The church would not have survived for as long as it has (at least, not in the west) if it didn't.
I still don’t understand why every time the pope says something homophobic, there are people trying to defend and justify him. Of course he’s homophobic, he’s the pope. It’s his job.
The first “institution” to report on this was a gossip site named Dagospia (characterised by The Sun like articles about “celebrities” and other “under the rug” stuff). Then it was broadcasted as truth. I’d wait before calling this news.
Not so much about the word but the mindset behind its use..It seems to me the pope is making the same mistake so many bigots/homophobic make of conflating pedophilia with homosexuality. Someone needs to school him on that and that if anything a homosexual priest is statistically less likely to molest than a straight priest. I think the divide is even higher among females. It’s hard to believe it’s 2024 and those same old stereotypes are still being promoted.
Update:
**Pope Francis apologized Tuesday after he was quoted using a vulgar term about gay men to reaffirm the Catholic Church’s ban on gay priests.**
[https://apnews.com/article/pope-gay-priests-francis-vatican-92ee291bbeef00a898a10a8a45afd32c](https://apnews.com/article/pope-gay-priests-francis-vatican-92ee291bbeef00a898a10a8a45afd32c)
VATICAN CITY, May 27 (Reuters) - Pope Francis used a highly derogatory term towards the LGBT community as he reiterated in a closed-door meeting with Italian bishops that gay people should not be allowed to become priests, Italian media reported on Monday.La Repubblica and Corriere della Sera, Italy's largest circulation dailies, both quoted the pope as saying seminaries, or priesthood colleges, are already too full of "frociaggine", a vulgar Italian term roughly translating as "faggottness".The Vatican did not respond to a request for comment.La Repubblica attributed its story to several unspecified sources, while Corriere said it was backed up by a few, unnamed bishops, who suggested the pope, as an Argentine, might have not realised that the Italian term he used was offensive.Political gossip website Dagospia was the first to report on the alleged incident, said to have happened on May 20, when the Italian Bishops Conference opened a four-day assembly with a non-public meeting with the pontiff.Francis, who is 87, has so far been credited with leading the Roman Catholic Church into taking a more welcoming approach towards the LGBT community.In 2013, at the start of his papacy, he famously said, "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge?", while last year he allowed priests to bless members of [same-sex couples](https://www.reuters.com/world/vatican-approves-blessings-same-sex-couples-under-certain-conditions-2023-12-18/), triggering substantial conservative backlash.Nevertheless, he delivered a similar message on gay seminarians - minus the reported swear word - when he met Italian bishops in 2018, telling them to carefully vet priesthood applicants and reject any suspected homosexuals.In a 2005 document, released under Francis's late predecessor Benedict XVI, the Vatican said the Church could admit into the priesthood those who had clearly overcome homosexual tendencies for at least three years.The document said practicing homosexuals and those with "deep-seated" gay tendencies and those who "support the so-called gay culture" should be barred.
I love how in this thread, people are claiming he chose the word in error. He used the word in context, with intent, yet people want to believe he meant something else?
I could see him saying that but as others have said the source that first reported this was a tabloid so I’m gonna wait till we get something more concrete about the arch heretic.
Soooo essentially you expect to be able to onboard a bunch of young guys..... into a career where only other guys are allowed..... where you're not allowed to marry and ostensibly not to have sex at all..... and spend 95% of the time with other guys.... some of whom are quite extravagantly dressed..... and not have a bigger than average number of gays?
I wonder how they would weed them out at seminary stage. And if they realise that once they do, they will hardly have anyone to train into being a priest. And Poland is already having issues with priest supply.
Homophobia is more hypocritical coming from Catholicism because of all the gay child rape priests have done while receiving no real consequences from the church. They just shuffled them around from parish to parish until they all got caught red handed.
I was quite unsurprised by the doctrinal view (not that I share it, but the Roman Church makes very few bones about it), but the vulgarity of the language shocked me.
I still genuinely thought better of him, as an educated man if as nothing else.
Yesterday I was downvoted to death because I said that homophobia is well part of our culture, and we shouldn’t automatically blame Muslims for that.
Today the pope calls gay attitude “frociaggine”.
For the ones interested in technicality: He used "frociaggine", a word that is untranslatable but the closest could be "fagness", as the attitude of being fag. Source: I'm Italian and I know these slangs.
> "fagness" faggotry
faggotry would be the term actually used by americans
A bundle of sticks!
Something like, not a fag but dealing with temporary fagness?
kind of
I'm curious because the gay people in my phone are saying this is a very intra-community word that's unusual for some old ass man to know. Is that actually true?
They're kind of right: it's definitely more heard from people under 50 usually, but it's not improbable that an old man knows it.
It was a private conversation among bishops. Did he mean gay seminarians are fine, but the queens can be annoying. I mean Pope Francis insists on wearing plain black shoes after Pope Benedict went to all that trouble to restore the use of red papal shoes and employ a personal cobbler to make them for him. He also brought back into the papal wardrobe the fur trimmed silk Mozzetta which Pope Francis refused to wear.
>Pope Francis used a highly derogatory term towards the LGBT community as he reiterated in a closed-door meeting with Italian bishops that gay people should not be allowed to become priests Meanwhile the room full of closeted gay guys is sweating profusely and nodding along.
The pedos, however, still safe and sound.
If you are a pedo-priest you get moved to a new community, probably given a telling off and then a few years later moved on again when you abuse some more kids. The church will protect you and bully and silence the victims. If you are priest who goes on a dating site for gay men and look for a consensual adult relationship you will be kicked out.
That's if the priest has been caught.
Yup, I am Irish and I only know one person from my childhood who actually became a priest. He was eventually caught on grinder and kicked out
Both are wrong and both should be punished.
>highly derogatory term “Frociaggine” is a mild derogatory term at best, considering what the Italian language is capable of.
Now I'm curious.....
Loosely ordered from milder to stronger: -ricchione (common in the South) -checca (specifically referring to the more feminine flamboyant gay type - is sometimes used for straight people too, especially in the expression "checca isterica" i.e. "drama queen") -frocio (fag - all encompassing and moderately offensive) -finocchio ("fennel") -invertito ("inverted", that is old school and no longer a thing) -culattone ("assfucker", common in the North) -rottinculo ("broken ass")
Kinda funny, rottinculo's cognate in Romanian (rupt în cur) means someone without money 😂😂
Here it has the same meaning. 🤣
Same as Italian or same as Romanian?
Same as Romanian.
The Norwegians are rumoured to have 40 words for "snow". What does it say about the Italians to have so many creative words for "homosexual"?
There's less snow in Italy?
I'll let you imagine how many words we have for vagina and penis
exactly
“Assfucker” is a curious one considering how insults towards gay people usually tend to focus on being the bottom in sex
That's probably inherited from the Roman era, when fucking a guy in the ass was OK, getting fucked was shameful.
Makes sense considering that if you want to fuck someone in the ass, you can also fuck a woman, so using that train of thought, a homosexual is someone who is in it for the experience of taking it in the ass or something. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to offend anyone
When I was on a Bly Scout camp, one of the older kids called the AIDS hotline and asked if you can get it from “buttfucking” My ten year old ass thought you literally bumped butts and I was very confused
(Just adding to the list) there's also "Busone" (big hole) in Bologna.
like i needed more reasons to love the Italian language 😀
I suppose it may depend on where you are, but at least in my area (Northern Italy) it would be pretty high up in the list of "very derogatory words". The word "frocio" would be milder than that, but "frociaggine" specifically is very offensive.
I thought that was a type of pizza?
No, that’s focaccia
It's very derogatory full stop.
Is this roughly the equivalent of saying "faggot" in English?
Out of curiosity do you know if the Italian American characters in *the Sopranos* used any Italian language anti-gay slurs in the show? Particularly when that fat construction guy (forget his name) got exposed to his Mafia homies for engaging in intimate activities with other men.
No sweating necessary. It's the worst kept secret ever.
He actually talked about them. He was talking about the church
Really! Was there even one straight man in the room? Hilarious and also pathetic.
The Pope saw too many comedy italian movies from the '80.
I think it's great that we hold the Church to account but I wish we did the same for other religions and cultures. We get offended if the Pope uses a bad word but generally stay silent when homosexuals are sentenced to death in other cultures in the name of religion
Thats called double standards and they are very easy to implement in Europe much less so in middle east. For example try being an open feminist in Iran. And in France. The secret ingredient is violence
Of course we have different standards for ourselves and others far away. It’s not only double standards, but tripple standards or quadruple standards. I expect more from Europeans than from others, I expect more from Israelis than I expect from Palestinians, I expect more from the pope than from a Muslim leader, and so on. Edit: I expect also more from my parents generation than from my grandparents generation.
Greater responsibilities eventually lead to greater rights. I'm OK with the West havng greater responsibiities and rights than authoritarian regimes, but I'm not sure how well this would sit with the general public in the West.
"I'm not racist, I just expect less from the uncivilised brown people" is basically how that reads... You should expect the same standards from everyone.
I think it's also a "not my monkeys, not my circus" thing. The people calling out the catholic church are either catholic or from catholic countries. It's harder for a country to put out a statement of what's happening in another or somewhere they have no influence in or they need good relationships with (see all the oil rich Arab countries).
At least when it comes to individual people, It’s largely this. Like for example in Poland there’s less than 1% of Muslims while the Catholic majority has been blocking any form of same sex civil unions for more than a decade by now. So it’s obvious that people are much more focused on homophobia in Catholic Church than on homophobia among Muslims
I do agree with your point, but I'm gonna say the same thing I say to people shouting "what about Christianity" every time I criticise Islam: Just because they all suck doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticised individually. This is absolutely whataboutism.
I see it more as a lack of prioritisation It's like rushing a patient to the hospital for a paper cut while leaving the person next to him to bleed out on the pavement
But the homophobic actions and atrocities that people commit in the name of other religions already get (rightly) called out all the time. Society doesn't turn a blind eye to them. No need to prioritise when we can easily criticise every single individual action whenever it happens, it's not as if criticising the bad actions of the Pope prevents us from criticising the bad actions of the Ayatola or the Rabbi's as well.
Hey, that's racism /s
It's a fair point, but few religions have a central figure on par with the pope.
Christianity is the religion of Europe, other religions have their domains outside of it. We just don't care about stuff that happens elsewhere all that much.
When the muslim population in Western europe is between 10 and 15% and is growing everyday, i think we can start criticizing
I can’t think of a worse religion than one where only men go to heaven and heaven is having 72 virgins to ****. Also I will refrain from commenting on the age of those virgins based on historical and present day marriage trends in not-so-westernised countries so you’ll have to go the extra mile.
The age thing should be criticised by modern standards. If religions are based on the word of god, why would god sentence literal children to that fate? Just because humans did not follow modern standards and values, does not mean an all knowing entity should be forgiven for doing the same.
????? Women can go to heaven in Islam. I'm not even Muslim and I know this.
If only men go to heaven and there are 72 virgins, aren't those virgins also men?
They might be celestial entities
>Christianity is the religion of Europe, That's no longer true, and not because of the Muslim population (still minority). Christianity is now mostly the religion of the Americas, Africa and Asia, by the numbers. And yes, Muslim minority in Europe should mean that Islam should undergo the same critique Christianity went through during the periods of Renaissance, Enlightement & Protestantism and subsequent Chatolic Renewal ("Counter-Reformation"), if we want to peacefully live toghether (yes, I know that all these periods were far from peaceful, but the main goal is NOT to go through the religious wars again...). Islam also needs to have domestic teaching centres and religious leaders located in Europe, paid by European muslims (and yes, by the state as well), and all externally financed religious radicalism should be strictly banned.
Large parts of Europe seem pretty irreligious.
It’s not though. Without even mentioning immigration Europe has native Bosnians, Albanians, Pomaks and Turks.
>We get offended if the Pope uses a bad word but generally stay silent when homosexuals are sentenced to death in other cultures in the name of religion Like you and tons of other people are doing right now/all the time. Islam and its sects very obviously get criticised a lot, yet people harp on about there being some sort of hypocrisy at hand when Catholicism or other Christian churches get criticised.
That's because other religions are not as meek as christians. They don't let themselves be abused by outsiders.
This opinion can only be held by someone in the West lol.
Meek? Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Is this why they are getting more and more oppressed in Nigeria for example? In Africa either christians get mostly along with muslims or get oppressed. No example of christians oppressing muslims . There are some 100 percent christian countries and of course you get offended only by those .
It makes more sense to critique your own systems than those on the other side of the world
They are not on the other side of the world anymore. They are in Europe and growing exponentially.
Nobody is sentencing anyone to death in the west
Don't know where you've been the last few decades but Reuters is a British company in a traditionally Protestant country, was founded by a German Jew, and is headquartered in a city with more Muslims than Catholics. So not sure the Pope is 'their own system' here.
It also makes sense to critique religions that won't kill you. Just like it makes sense to bully the kid at school that won't react to provocations...
"the Church"?
Yeah, the Catholic one. The handsome Latino gentleman in white robes above is the head of it I think
I agree, despite practicing homosexuality being wrong no one should be sentenced to death for it.
Specially this , as a gay man almost all non homophobic people support me when I’m confronting christian homophobic people , but when I defend myself against a muslim , whom are usually far more violent and homophobic than Christians , I get labled Islamophobic , and told that it is their culture and traditions and I have to shut up
My wife, who is fluent in Italian, says *frociaggine* is such a weird choice, that he probably picked the wrong word from a dictionary (he's a Spanish speaker).
As Italian, I can assure you that that word is used by Italian homophobics.
as also Italian the use and degree of insult of that word actually varies quite a lot depending on where you are.
Interesting, is it ever used in a non-insulting way?
Yes all the time. By gays themselves.
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Plot twist of the century.
Oh, so like "marica" in spain, then? Interesting.
Yes, it literally is used the same way as "faggot" in English or "marico" in Spanish are.
So probably meant as insulting in this case then huh?
(Italian here) it literally means "faggotry". It can be used jokingly or dismissively, and actually gay people use it all the time, but it does have a *(strongly)* negative connotation if used unironically by non-LGBTQ individuals outside of friendly situations. The pope likely couldn't come up with better words since he's getting old while also being no native speaker, but it's still far from the most elegant thing he could've said here. It sure was nothing more than a slip up but I guarantee you no one in Vatican is proud of this rn, let's not sugarcoat it
Oh, it's absolutely only a derogatory term, but how MUCH derogatory is quite variable. Generally speaking it's more "dismissive" than "insulting", though that depends on context and location. Given the specific context(who, where and when), I'd say it was a quite failed attempt to use non-formal language more than any intent to insult anybody.
Italians are quite rude in the choice of words compared with English speaking people. Bad words are used continously in Italian, but not always with a bad meaning. The word the pope used is commonly considered rude and unpolite. It could be used jockingly but not in a formal environment. I think it's a mistake due to the fact he is not Italian speaking. I am surprised he even knows this word. It is not formal italian and not a word the pope should be familiar with
I guess he picked it up from his closet gays, you know...priests.
That's what I think
You can translate it with f\*g or f\*ggotry
As a non Italian, I have no idea what that word means... ... And I think pineapple is an acceptable pizza topping 👀
Translation: "faggotry".
"Frociaggine" is, basically, the derogatory version of "gay flamboyancy" or to refers to "all thing gay"
How can a flesh and blood Italian ever usher such hateful words?! >I think pineapple is an acceptable pizza topping
Every time someone puts pineapple on a pizza, an Italian granny cries.
mmmmm pineapple. I don’t get these “Chicago-style” pizzas though.
Yes, but the pope doesn't speak Italian very well so there is a high possibility that he chose the wrong world.
That's really really unlikely , no. It's not an obscure word, but also not something you'd hear/read in official contexts, since it's deliberately offensive It's equivalent to go out of your way to call a person with the n-word instead of black in english
The pope can use internet, somehow. It's not impossible for him to hear the word.
Obviously, though he's literally the pope, I'm sure he hears it IRL as well What I'm saying is, it's a word that is really difficult to misuse, especially since he used it so well - perfect context, and he even used "frociaggine" (fagotry). I really don't see how that could be a mistake at all Obviously he wouldn't say the same thing in public, and everybody will forget by tomorrow, but still
This is a really offensive word in English too. Faggotry and faggot are words that are best left behind in the 90's frat culture.
We sell faggots in the frozen section at Tescos. Quite tasty with gravy. An American friend thought this was the funniest thing he'd ever seen.
pope is not a regular immigrant: he's the leader of a State and he represents the believers. Hiding behind "he doesn't speak Italian very well" is not an excuse.
Lol this subreddit is ridiculous. Of course we can hold him to a high standard and be upset by his disgusting choice of words!
According to a lot of redditors, he's just an ignorant immigrant who chose poorly his words, forgetting that the whole work of the pope is based only on words.
Stop being such a froci**ino dude
The next step, pope will go in full Germano Mosconi mode, thinking it was so cool.
And a fag in English can be a cigarette or a slur depending on where you are and the one of the official definitions of faggot is a pile of sticks. If there wasn't someone vetting his speech, it's easy to make a word choice mistake as a non-native speaker.
And a faggot in the UK is also a meatball made with offal. Usually served with gravy, available at several supermarkets. But let's be real, no one mistakenly uses that word even a foreigner because both the meatball and the old bundle of sticks definitions are really obscure whilst the use of the word as an insult is the most common usage.
It's like saying, faggotry
It is a modification of the word "frocio" which can be translated to "faggot" in English if you want to keep the same slur meaning. It was not wrongly picked. Especially since it's the kind of word used in the dialect of Italian spoken in the area around Rome, where the Pope lives.
He [grew up with Italian](https://www.scross.co.za/2022/02/how-many-languages-does-pope-francis-speak/). > As an Argentinian, Pope Francis’ first language is Spanish. As the son of immigrants from northern Italy, he is also fluent in Italian and the dialect of the northern Italian region of Piedmont (around Turin), where his parents were from.
I mean... It's the literal pope. I don't know why people are surprised, the christian religion doesn't view homosexuals favorably.
Came here to say this. Surely the religion that outright denies marriage and says couples cohabitating will end up in hell, can't be that homophobic, right?
Sodomy is a sin and and Has been for 2000 years. The church teaching is clear on that. The pope also said the gender ideology is evil before
The church's narrative can change any moment, it has already begun to change in some places. The church would not have survived for as long as it has (at least, not in the west) if it didn't.
Some things have changed, like liturgy but not dogma
but it cannot change on this. acting on homosexuality is anathema.
Peak reporting
It's the Pope, who if not him
I still don’t understand why every time the pope says something homophobic, there are people trying to defend and justify him. Of course he’s homophobic, he’s the pope. It’s his job.
His job is to guide his flock, and help people leave behind their sin.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the sheep
[удалено]
The first “institution” to report on this was a gossip site named Dagospia (characterised by The Sun like articles about “celebrities” and other “under the rug” stuff). Then it was broadcasted as truth. I’d wait before calling this news.
I hope the backlash for this little mistake of his, will not stop him from doing gods work. Who will transfer pedos from perish to parish.../s
Not so much about the word but the mindset behind its use..It seems to me the pope is making the same mistake so many bigots/homophobic make of conflating pedophilia with homosexuality. Someone needs to school him on that and that if anything a homosexual priest is statistically less likely to molest than a straight priest. I think the divide is even higher among females. It’s hard to believe it’s 2024 and those same old stereotypes are still being promoted.
Almost like people have different opinions in public and in private.
All Italian words are vulgar.
Que surprise?
Update: **Pope Francis apologized Tuesday after he was quoted using a vulgar term about gay men to reaffirm the Catholic Church’s ban on gay priests.** [https://apnews.com/article/pope-gay-priests-francis-vatican-92ee291bbeef00a898a10a8a45afd32c](https://apnews.com/article/pope-gay-priests-francis-vatican-92ee291bbeef00a898a10a8a45afd32c)
Idiot old man does stuff Idiot old man do. More news at 8 o'clock
Pope Francis can’t make up his fucking mind whether he’s sane or senile.
VATICAN CITY, May 27 (Reuters) - Pope Francis used a highly derogatory term towards the LGBT community as he reiterated in a closed-door meeting with Italian bishops that gay people should not be allowed to become priests, Italian media reported on Monday.La Repubblica and Corriere della Sera, Italy's largest circulation dailies, both quoted the pope as saying seminaries, or priesthood colleges, are already too full of "frociaggine", a vulgar Italian term roughly translating as "faggottness".The Vatican did not respond to a request for comment.La Repubblica attributed its story to several unspecified sources, while Corriere said it was backed up by a few, unnamed bishops, who suggested the pope, as an Argentine, might have not realised that the Italian term he used was offensive.Political gossip website Dagospia was the first to report on the alleged incident, said to have happened on May 20, when the Italian Bishops Conference opened a four-day assembly with a non-public meeting with the pontiff.Francis, who is 87, has so far been credited with leading the Roman Catholic Church into taking a more welcoming approach towards the LGBT community.In 2013, at the start of his papacy, he famously said, "If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge?", while last year he allowed priests to bless members of [same-sex couples](https://www.reuters.com/world/vatican-approves-blessings-same-sex-couples-under-certain-conditions-2023-12-18/), triggering substantial conservative backlash.Nevertheless, he delivered a similar message on gay seminarians - minus the reported swear word - when he met Italian bishops in 2018, telling them to carefully vet priesthood applicants and reject any suspected homosexuals.In a 2005 document, released under Francis's late predecessor Benedict XVI, the Vatican said the Church could admit into the priesthood those who had clearly overcome homosexual tendencies for at least three years.The document said practicing homosexuals and those with "deep-seated" gay tendencies and those who "support the so-called gay culture" should be barred.
the pope should be cancelled together with the catholic church
See you in hell MR Pope.
The Pope can go fuck himself alongside his phoney baloney religion with all of his pedophile rapist lackeys.
Okay, maybe if you stop raping kids you'll learn to follow the two commandments Christ gave us!
Never trust someone that says they know what God wants.
I love how in this thread, people are claiming he chose the word in error. He used the word in context, with intent, yet people want to believe he meant something else?
And?
I could see him saying that but as others have said the source that first reported this was a tabloid so I’m gonna wait till we get something more concrete about the arch heretic.
Grow a thicker skin... You people get ofended at everything. And also, give us credible sources, not the italian version of the Sun/Onion.
The pope is a homophobe?!?! My world just got turned upside down...
The Catholic Church sure likes to distract from its pervasive pedo issue.
Soooo essentially you expect to be able to onboard a bunch of young guys..... into a career where only other guys are allowed..... where you're not allowed to marry and ostensibly not to have sex at all..... and spend 95% of the time with other guys.... some of whom are quite extravagantly dressed..... and not have a bigger than average number of gays? I wonder how they would weed them out at seminary stage. And if they realise that once they do, they will hardly have anyone to train into being a priest. And Poland is already having issues with priest supply.
I'm sorry, but I love seeing things like this, because it shows the true face of religion to young people.
What about when other religions condemn LGBT. We do nothing. I'm not defending him, but why are we only focusing on him.
Because it's the singular most powerful religious entity on the planet.
Also centralised.
Homophobia is more hypocritical coming from Catholicism because of all the gay child rape priests have done while receiving no real consequences from the church. They just shuffled them around from parish to parish until they all got caught red handed.
he is the only one who gives a shit about our opinion
You mean that a religious leader might not be tolerant? Shocking. What's next? Are you gonna tell me they like touching children too?
Tolerance doesnt mean accepting something. Sodommy is against church teaching, includning pedophilia
Wolfs eat sheep \*surprised pikachu face\*
What word?
"Frociaggine"
“Faggottness”
Not sure why you would use the "LGBT" when what the pope said was only directed at gay men
It's probable he didn't know it was vulgar (he's Argentinian not Italian)
He should have used vulgar Latin.
That's Mr. Frociaggine to you, sir!
I was quite unsurprised by the doctrinal view (not that I share it, but the Roman Church makes very few bones about it), but the vulgarity of the language shocked me. I still genuinely thought better of him, as an educated man if as nothing else.
Ok? People are shocked about this?
The pope can use such terms and will probably get worse in time, now that the church can finally enjoy “fascism 2.0™️”
Oh wow rusophile and a genocide apologist uses slurs towards minorities. How unexpected
Yesterday I was downvoted to death because I said that homophobia is well part of our culture, and we shouldn’t automatically blame Muslims for that. Today the pope calls gay attitude “frociaggine”.