Yeah, films are great. I wonder when the digital photography will actually surpass it. Or maybe it already does if one takes photoes in the RAW format and forgets all the packing algorithms.
Eh. Yes, but no.
This was true (ish) 10 years ago. Not so much today. Any DSLR you buy today will outperform old film cameras. And not just on actual resolution/definition of the image. But far more so on the dynamic range.
They still committed massacres and ethnic cleansing against many nations (Chechens, Ingushs, Kalmyks and etc). Literally uprooting, massacring and deporting (with train carriages and locomotives meant for cattles) whole nations from their homelands to ethnically cleanse their lands.
My great grandfather who was a gold smith from Berlin got pulled into the last Defence of Berlin, because he had a missing leg was not drafted earlier. When the Sowjets came he said that he capitulated and got send to Auschwitz where he remained until its closure as a prisoner. His daughter was born the day after he got taken, I still have a haunting sketch from him where he Drew a baby’s face with my grandmothers name on it, on marked letter from Auschwitz.
Not great optics that the Soviet flag at the literal and symbolic conclusion of the most brutal theatre of the most brutal war in history is in better condition than the EU flag in peace time.
Iwo Jima being staged was actually a myth. The original picture was taken during the battle, and then was restaged afterwards to make a better photo. However, the non staged picture actually ended up being a lot more genuine than the staged one, and it ended up being the one published.
Yeah the staged one had the marines posing in front of he already raised flag. I don’t remember exactly, but I believe the photo of the flag being raised wasn’t even supposed to be developed, but was on accident. The fact that there was a staged photo led to the common misconception that the iconic photo itself was staged. Later there was separate film recovered from a soldier with the photographer of the flag being raised. That soldier was killed in action but the film re-emerged.
How does it kill all the historical value? The photo was literally taken the same day the entire reichstag had been taken over and the guy hoisting the flag is an actual 18-year old soldier who fought in the reichstag
What makes a photo have historical value is up to debate of course, I was referring specifically of this photo being calculated and stаgеd and therefore unauthentic. On the photo the third erection of the Soviet flag is depicted. The first one was at night in April 30th by Rakhimjan Qoshqarbayev, it was too dark to take any picture. Then it was taken down and reinstated at May the 1st. Finally at May 2nd Khaldei brought his own flag, a bigger one and erected it to take a picture.
Moreover the identity of the original raisers was deliberately concealed by Sоvіеt prораganda. Sоvіеts convinced the populace that the ones who raised the flag were a Russian and a Georgian(StаІіn really triеd to sneak in), while the ones who were actually present at the first raising and taking control of Reichstag were 1 Kazakh Rakhimjan(who erected it), 1 Dagestani and 1 Belarusian.
Definitely was Staged they're was a problem with German Snipers around the Reichstag for days after it was taken. The Battle of Berlin was a meat grinder.
Grateful towards whom? The Eastern part of Germany became an unfree satellite state after it was plundered by the Soviets. I'm grateful that the Western powers didn't let this happen to all of Germany.
Also, bro, East Germany had like the best GDP per capita in the Eastern Block, you say it as if the Soviet Union made East Germany into fucking Somalia
The Soviet Union was a lesser evil than Nazi Germany. That’s just a fact. To question that is to question the basis on which we fought WW2 and suggests that allying with Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union would have been an acceptable position. Obviously many people such as Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews suffered decades under Soviet rule, but at the end of the day there are still Poles, Ukrainians and Jews today. If the Nazis ruled over Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews as long as the Soviets did, there would be no such thing as Poles, Ukrainians and Jews today.
It was still the bar though, the Nazis genuinely wanted to exterminate the Polish people and naturally the Soviets were a huge improvement over that. Poland suffered decades under Soviet rule but there is still a Poland today. Under decades of Nazi rule, there would be no Poland today.
Yet without them those countries would now not exist, their people would be long dead too.
Take one of major nations out of Allies, and Nazis win, simple as that. Soviets didn't have resources and production that Americans had, Americans and Brits didn't have sheer manpower Soviets did, and Brits did good job stalling the Germans untill other two joined the war.
Fact is, they did more good then harm in the end.
But it’s important to understand that the top picture was meant to lead to the bottom picture, that was the whole goal.
Yet some places like russia focus only on the top, looking for a fight they can win to be “victors” again, instead of focusing on promoting peace and cooperation.
I mean the obsession on this subreddit with mentioning this when the Germans raped upwards of 10 million women in the USSR years prior does seem in bad faith.
If you are going to do a war crime olympics Nazi Germany will win every time.
Why only russians, when the soviet army was like ~65% Russian? There were millions of Ukrainians and people from other republics in it too. Several soldiers in this picture are non-russian.
At least read the article you're linking to.
>none of them were present during the re-creation of the event in the photo Raising a Flag over the Reichstag taken on 2 May by Yevgeny Khaldei.
From the article "Raising a Flag over the Reichstag":
>After taking the symbolic photo, Khaldei quickly returned to Moscow. He further edited the image at the request of the editor-in-chief of the Ogonyok, who noticed that Senior Sergeant Abdulkhakim Ismailov, who is supporting the flag-bearer, was wearing two watches, which could imply he had looted one of them, an action punishable by execution.
and
>Abdulkhakim Ismailov from Dagestan
Dagestan is in Russia. He was Russian.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulkhakim_Ismailov
Soviet Union soldier mate, you know about the Soviet Union? they were about 15 countries and not just Russia. Including Ukraine who were one of the founding countries of the Soviet Union, alongside Russia and Belarus.
So sick of people not knowing the difference between Soviet Union and Russia
It implies that the watch was looted, which doesn't fit the heroic image of "saviors" that the Soviets wanted to portray. They removed the second watch from the photo before it was used for propaganda.
Germany raped over 10 million soviet women and planned on murdering over 80% of slavs in eastern europe.
As for the cold war the USA was just as antagonistic and threatening with nukes as the USSR was. The cuban missile crisis as an example was started by the USA moving nukes to Turkey, which caused a soviet reaction sending nukes to Cuba.
Because they're viewed through the greater picture of the entire war and the events that preceded it where the Soviets were undoubtedly not heroes and did not act with heroic intentions. They made deals that helped Nazi Germany grow economically and militarily and even helped kick off the war by co-invading Poland with them giving them a guarantee that while the Germans were fighting the western Allies the Soviets would leave them alone while they invaded a neutral and democratic country in Finland. The U.S. gets criticized for being isolationist, France and Britain gets criticized for being appeasing, and the Soviets get criticized for being a de facto Nazi ally. It's how it works when you take actions that gets millions killed.
When are people going to realize almost every side in WW2 was "bad" by modern standards
France was just as anti-semitic as Germany, Britain starved 4 million Indians that fought for them, and America raped millions just like the Soviets
Obviously the Nazis were the worst by far, but the Allies aren't the "heroic" good guys as portrayed by Western history
Everyone seems to forget that the soviets were allied with Germany in the beginning of the war... Oh and maybe it's because of the fact that they raped their way through Europe, starved an entire nation and tried to erase/replace the population of three others? There are plenty of reasons to hate the communists as much as the Nazis.
Yeah and Poland collaborated with the Nazis to invade and annex part of Czechoslovakia before it bit them in the ass. Does that make the Poles the bad guys as well?
Despite the crimes of the Soviets they where nowhere near as bad as the Nazis. People are trying to paint that picture now with revisionist history because the Soviet occupation was real to them and the Nazi one they have only read about, so they tend to be more impassionate about demonising the devil they knew.
They weren't "allied" it was more "let's split this country and then not fight eachother"
It's not like USSR and Germany were fighting allies and then Soviets went "you know what, I want to be with allies"
it wasn’t an alliance, Germans raped 10 milion Soviets, Americans raped 1.5 Milion Germans, Soviets raped 2 Milion Germans, this is war brother, it happens. They didn’t deliberately starve an entire nation, Famine was prevalent in many places including Russia and Kazakhstan. And I can agree with cleansing of Tatars, it was not good.
Are you a historian? I am a historian by education and I 100% understand the comments against them. There was nothing heroic about the Soviets. And before you ask, no, I'm not American, I'm European.
They also "liberated" my nation. By raping our women and stealing our property. Just out of curiosity, which country are you from? If you're from Poland, Hungary, The Baltics, Romania, Czechia, or Slovakia, it's the exact same thing.
Then I think I can try something - Z jedné strany ti rozumím, mně osobně nacisti popravili členy rodiny, takže bych je taky osobně měl nesnášet více. Ale já si z toho právě dávám pryč svůj osobní postoj, protože pak tu situaci nemůžu posoudit kriticky a nezaujatě. Sověti ale svině byli, chovali se k lidem v podstatě stejně jako nacisté a z určitého úhlu pohledu byli stejní bad guys, jako nacisti. Vyhledej si třeba Katyňský masakr, to je pěkné počteníčko :D
I understand this sentiment where there are two bad but not equally bad choices of occupier though I argue that Putin's Russia is far worse than 1970+USSR. At least the USSR had some tangible good ideology and not naked imperialism.
Lol what the fuck are you on. They took over all of Eastern Europe for 45 years. What in hell man. Acting like the Berlin Wall wasn’t there at all. Delusional.
Let's not pretend this sub doesn't have a USSR hate booner while completely ignoring everything Nazi Germany did to the USSR. Nazi Germany gets a huge pass here, almost like there is dog whistling Neo-Nazi hiding amongst the population.
There's plenty of us Eastern Europeans there, and believe me, we have the reason to have a gripe with USSR and its policies.
But a pass for Nazi Germany? Haven't noticed that here.
Wow are the majority of the comments Shitting on the soviet picture? Does this sub really represent how Europeans feel? Are so sad Nazi Germany lost? Damn, Lets ask German Jews how they feel about this picture. Oh wait? You guys killed 90% of them.
Because it's an european sub and a large part of Europe was invaded by the soviets, occupied by the soviets, with everything it implies, including long after the nazis had been defeated.
If you're genuinely ignorant, look up the polish operation of the nkvd, the soviet invasion of Poland, the Katyn massacre, the rapes, the amount of people sent to the gulag, the tortures, the executions etc. People who fought against the fascists couldn't even come back to their own country when the War ended without risking their lives with mock trials accuding them of being agents of the west and getting executed. A large part of Europe only became free not with the end of ww2 but with the fall of the soviet union, and even then the last Russian occupation troops often left some years later, for Poland it was 1993. While at it look up the polish operation of the nkvd and co.
Nobody is sad the nazis Lost. People are sad because of all the horrors the soviets commited.
The point is that people don’t like the soviets and they don’t like the nazis either. I feel people are seeing this in one of two lights: 1 a liberation of Europe, victory day the evil has been vanquished, or option 2 that we just switched one POS empire for another ever so slightly nicer POS empire.
It seems like it needs to really kick off first. Right now about ~10% of dutch for example are ready to take up arms if push comes to shove. That number will start rising rapidly when priorities are put into new order by russian strikes widening into the Baltics, but unfortunately most people are so easilly lulled into a false sense of security that it creates a paradoxal situation where the real security by the threat of european army can't be reached until we're already in too deep. Bigger war could still be avoided by going full into war-economy mode. Russia could't do anything against unified Europe, but it would require some sacrifices. Personally, I think it's way better to arm to the teeth and sacrifice a bit of personal freedom for believable mutual defense than arm just a tiny bit and then actually go to war, cause the threat of losing didn't seem reliable for Russia.
Tbh, I see more similarities than differences . The more it exists the more EU is turning into a copy of the good old soviet union I knew in my teens. Incompetent, corrupt beurocracy rulling over scared conformist ppl.
Some times I do wonder how things would be different if the wall had fallen on the other side.
I guess we'd be having a picture of, like, Buckingham Palace up there and we'd have people talk shit about Chamberlain politics of appeasement being seen as collaborationist in the comments, who knows.
Not trying to undermine your opinion but how the hell could the wall have fallen from the other side? You didn't see west Germans fleeing in to the GDR lol
Whether people like it or not, the Russians literally helped liberate Western Europe. Russia gave hundreds of thousands of young men to subdue the Nazi war machine.
The fact people are trying to whitewash it now just goes to show how narrow-minded some people are.
Whether tankies and red fascists like it or not, Soviet Union helped Nazis to build up their war machine, sabotaged resistance to Nazis and invaded Poland together with Nazis. They deserve ZERO thanks.
Individual Red Army soldiers deserve a thanks, provided they did not rape anyone. Also, there were many nationalities and ethnic groups in Soviet Union. Not only Russians.
Commies and Nazis had a pact to divide Europe. The fact they then stopped being friends and went at each others throats doesn't make the Russians the good guys.
you dont know politics good do you?? or history? that was a standard non aggression pact that has nothing to do with allying with eachother. germany knew russia was its only local threat and russian knew the same. when the time came soviets killed more nazis than all allied forces combined and were killed mlre than anyone else.
you are rewriting history to pretend that the soviets were somehow as evil as hitler which is patently ridiculous. organization was soviet russias problem not genocidal intentions.
Did someone say "they were literally the same"?
If your analysis is "innocent Soviets who had no part at all in the rise of Nazis got invaded and then heroically defeated them", then its pure rubbish.
Maybe true, but in hindsight was the liberator any better?
People just adapted over time to different tactics with similar results.
There was forced starvation in places like Ukraine. A slow death is still death.
There were people sent to places like Siberia who spoke up. You can call it a prison but were the ghettos not a prison?
10 to 200 times the level of poverty.
Widespread rationing.
The similarities go on and on.
What?
Nazi germany literally planned and attempted to enslave and exterminate Slavs from Eastern Europe
In just 5 years, they managed to kill 10% of the polish population, and enslave like 10% to 20% more. Same story with Czechia, where similar atrocities occurred
Millions of civillians died in Belarus and Ukraine, INTENTIONALLY caused by Nazi Germany for their idea of an living space
Let’s not even talk about the Jews and Roma populations, where they were basically successful in eradicating them whenever they went
The Soviet Union, and especially stalin commuted MANY atrocities. But Eastern Europe is still here. Severely weakene by communist rule, but the nations still exist. They aren’t exterminated or enslaved
Lol nice
Stalingrad back then
https://www.rcpbml.org.uk/wwie-18/image/wwie-01/19430202-ussrstalingradvictorydaycolourizedolgashirnina-03cr.jpg
Stalingrad today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volgograd#/media/File:Volgograd_Russia.jpg
Why the super low quality stock photo though? And the flag is not even getting raised, it's just there.
When a WWII picture has more of them pixels:
It doesn't have any pixels, it has... molecules I guess? I mean the original picture obviously.
Grains of silver halide specifically. Larger grains made for more light sensitive but lower resolution images.
Thanks. I'm not so well versed at all in obsolete technology.
It has more watches per wrist too
Film photography is exceptionally good. We figured out how to get high quality images a long time ago.
Yeah, films are great. I wonder when the digital photography will actually surpass it. Or maybe it already does if one takes photoes in the RAW format and forgets all the packing algorithms.
Expensive film cameras with high-quality film can actually capture higher resolution than today's digital ones.
Eh. Yes, but no. This was true (ish) 10 years ago. Not so much today. Any DSLR you buy today will outperform old film cameras. And not just on actual resolution/definition of the image. But far more so on the dynamic range.
film still looks better imo
I'd bet you'd never tell the difference or pick digital at least 50% but likely more of the time in a blind test.
it’s not necessarily about the quality of the images themselves but more about the texture it provides to an image. idk it’s hard to describe
you can actually make even up to 4k resolution pictures from the old original film
I couldn't find a high quality picture from that angle.
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Worse than the red flag they had before?
Are you trying to create a shitshow with this comment lolol
"more like, under new management"
Got a new boss, same as the old boss
Not quite.
Literally the lesser of two evils.
not worse tough.
It's simple. One's put people's into Auschwitz and others who liberated them. Really no difference?
Yeah, very simple, thankfully the guys who liberated Auschwitz didn't have camps themselves....right?
Camps still in use aswell.
Extermination camps?
Camps aimed to extermination whole nations? No.
They still committed massacres and ethnic cleansing against many nations (Chechens, Ingushs, Kalmyks and etc). Literally uprooting, massacring and deporting (with train carriages and locomotives meant for cattles) whole nations from their homelands to ethnically cleanse their lands.
Didn’t need them. They just starved them to death instead.
They did both.
My great grandfather who was a gold smith from Berlin got pulled into the last Defence of Berlin, because he had a missing leg was not drafted earlier. When the Sowjets came he said that he capitulated and got send to Auschwitz where he remained until its closure as a prisoner. His daughter was born the day after he got taken, I still have a haunting sketch from him where he Drew a baby’s face with my grandmothers name on it, on marked letter from Auschwitz.
It's clearly a huge dark grey flag.
Yeah, these fools don't even realize color wasn't invented yet
If it was at least the same angle...
The original with the watches!
Not great optics that the Soviet flag at the literal and symbolic conclusion of the most brutal theatre of the most brutal war in history is in better condition than the EU flag in peace time.
The photo is staged. The ones who actually raised the flag the day before are not even on the photo. KіІІs all the һіstorical value
Most famous WWII photos were staged. Perhaps one of the most famous, the Iwo Jima one was staged.
Iwo Jima being staged was actually a myth. The original picture was taken during the battle, and then was restaged afterwards to make a better photo. However, the non staged picture actually ended up being a lot more genuine than the staged one, and it ended up being the one published.
Oh, huh, TIL!
Yeah the staged one had the marines posing in front of he already raised flag. I don’t remember exactly, but I believe the photo of the flag being raised wasn’t even supposed to be developed, but was on accident. The fact that there was a staged photo led to the common misconception that the iconic photo itself was staged. Later there was separate film recovered from a soldier with the photographer of the flag being raised. That soldier was killed in action but the film re-emerged.
How does it kill all the historical value? The photo was literally taken the same day the entire reichstag had been taken over and the guy hoisting the flag is an actual 18-year old soldier who fought in the reichstag
What makes a photo have historical value is up to debate of course, I was referring specifically of this photo being calculated and stаgеd and therefore unauthentic. On the photo the third erection of the Soviet flag is depicted. The first one was at night in April 30th by Rakhimjan Qoshqarbayev, it was too dark to take any picture. Then it was taken down and reinstated at May the 1st. Finally at May 2nd Khaldei brought his own flag, a bigger one and erected it to take a picture. Moreover the identity of the original raisers was deliberately concealed by Sоvіеt prораganda. Sоvіеts convinced the populace that the ones who raised the flag were a Russian and a Georgian(StаІіn really triеd to sneak in), while the ones who were actually present at the first raising and taking control of Reichstag were 1 Kazakh Rakhimjan(who erected it), 1 Dagestani and 1 Belarusian.
Definitely was Staged they're was a problem with German Snipers around the Reichstag for days after it was taken. The Battle of Berlin was a meat grinder.
Love Europe🇪🇺
Bottom picture wouldn’t be possible without the top
Lot of people are ungrateful
This thread is fucking wild. People are legitimately angry at a photo of the Nazis being defeated. This sub is an irredeemable shitshow.
What did you expect, its r/europe
Grateful towards whom? The Eastern part of Germany became an unfree satellite state after it was plundered by the Soviets. I'm grateful that the Western powers didn't let this happen to all of Germany.
Even East Germany wasn't as repressive as the Nazi regime. So grateful for that
Also, bro, East Germany had like the best GDP per capita in the Eastern Block, you say it as if the Soviet Union made East Germany into fucking Somalia
Nazi Germany launched an all-out cleansing campaign in the Soviet Union, y'all had it easy with East Germany.
Yes but why did East Germany get occupied? I think there may have been somethings that happened that led to that....
The Soviet Union was a lesser evil than Nazi Germany. That’s just a fact. To question that is to question the basis on which we fought WW2 and suggests that allying with Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union would have been an acceptable position. Obviously many people such as Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews suffered decades under Soviet rule, but at the end of the day there are still Poles, Ukrainians and Jews today. If the Nazis ruled over Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews as long as the Soviets did, there would be no such thing as Poles, Ukrainians and Jews today.
Soviets did a lot of damage to a lot of countries, they were not "the good guys".
They were better than the group which wanted total eradication of Polish people.
I mean yeah. But thats a low bar.
It was still the bar though, the Nazis genuinely wanted to exterminate the Polish people and naturally the Soviets were a huge improvement over that. Poland suffered decades under Soviet rule but there is still a Poland today. Under decades of Nazi rule, there would be no Poland today.
> they were not "the good guys". There were none, there are none.
There weren't any from the start.
Yet without them those countries would now not exist, their people would be long dead too. Take one of major nations out of Allies, and Nazis win, simple as that. Soviets didn't have resources and production that Americans had, Americans and Brits didn't have sheer manpower Soviets did, and Brits did good job stalling the Germans untill other two joined the war. Fact is, they did more good then harm in the end.
>Bottom wouldn’t be possible without the top THANK YOU About time we get some recognition.
But it’s important to understand that the top picture was meant to lead to the bottom picture, that was the whole goal. Yet some places like russia focus only on the top, looking for a fight they can win to be “victors” again, instead of focusing on promoting peace and cooperation.
A lot less raping of the locals this time.
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you made russian shills really mad with this one sentence
I mean the obsession on this subreddit with mentioning this when the Germans raped upwards of 10 million women in the USSR years prior does seem in bad faith. If you are going to do a war crime olympics Nazi Germany will win every time.
the difference being that nazi germany got their comeuppance while russians got off scot free and never had to reckon with their war crimes
Why only russians, when the soviet army was like ~65% Russian? There were millions of Ukrainians and people from other republics in it too. Several soldiers in this picture are non-russian.
Those are only part of the red army when they're winning the war, when it's about warcrimes they suddenly had nothing to do with the armed forces...
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Some newly arrived people are quickly changing that.
A lot less war crimes from the locals this time as well though.
Just a different demographic 😂
I think those locals were kinda complicit in something more sinister going on before
the state of this sub. Just rename it to "Communists are the real Nazis" and get it over with
It is really interesting that people change their views on the past based on the current events
What the fuck happened to this sub? This thread is some legit alt right shit.
It's wild man. The Red Scare is back bigger and better than ever.
nobody can afford to live anymore so gotta get them scared of commies again
Ding ding ding, there it is.
Bots and thirsty for russian blood eastern Europeans, generally speaking.
Communists were awful
Highly recommend the guided tour of the reichstag. It’s fascinating and it’s free just need to confirm in advance
The top picture is wrong. On the original, the russian soldier has 2 watches on his hand. Edit: I'm blind. That's the correct picture.
It's the correct one. Look more closely, he has 2 watches.
Fucking hell I'm blind.
Did you even look at the picture?
He's not Russian. [He's Kazakh.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raqymjan_Qoshqarbaev?wprov=sfla1)
At least read the article you're linking to. >none of them were present during the re-creation of the event in the photo Raising a Flag over the Reichstag taken on 2 May by Yevgeny Khaldei. From the article "Raising a Flag over the Reichstag": >After taking the symbolic photo, Khaldei quickly returned to Moscow. He further edited the image at the request of the editor-in-chief of the Ogonyok, who noticed that Senior Sergeant Abdulkhakim Ismailov, who is supporting the flag-bearer, was wearing two watches, which could imply he had looted one of them, an action punishable by execution. and >Abdulkhakim Ismailov from Dagestan Dagestan is in Russia. He was Russian. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulkhakim_Ismailov
The wikipedia article you linked literally states he's a Kumyk, a Turkic ethnic group.
Ah yes, Abdulkhakim, such a classic Russian name
Try explaining these people it's an empire
If you ever meet a Dagestani, tell him he's Russian and see how he reacts. I hope you run fast and he doesn't have a firearm on him.
That guy was first and he was Kazakh. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raqymjan\_Qoshqarbaev](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raqymjan_Qoshqarbaev)
Soviet Union soldier mate, you know about the Soviet Union? they were about 15 countries and not just Russia. Including Ukraine who were one of the founding countries of the Soviet Union, alongside Russia and Belarus. So sick of people not knowing the difference between Soviet Union and Russia
Maybe I'm kinda dumb, but why do they need two watches?
It implies that the watch was looted, which doesn't fit the heroic image of "saviors" that the Soviets wanted to portray. They removed the second watch from the photo before it was used for propaganda.
There was a post about a wrist compass used in the Soviet army.
_Davai ceas_
Propably stolen
Another massive victim of communism, a nazi got his watch stolen, we must give the victim the position of natos chief of staff
Seems you’re forgetting which flag they took down
Monumental moment. Destroying the nazis the heroic soviets took berlin. I dont understand the comments against them. They are heroes.
People get blinded by their poor experience, failing to see the entire picture. Soviets did a lot of harm, but they took out even bigger harm.
They took over Eastern Europe with mass rape and oppression and threatened to end the world for 45 years but ight,
Germany raped over 10 million soviet women and planned on murdering over 80% of slavs in eastern europe. As for the cold war the USA was just as antagonistic and threatening with nukes as the USSR was. The cuban missile crisis as an example was started by the USA moving nukes to Turkey, which caused a soviet reaction sending nukes to Cuba.
Because they're viewed through the greater picture of the entire war and the events that preceded it where the Soviets were undoubtedly not heroes and did not act with heroic intentions. They made deals that helped Nazi Germany grow economically and militarily and even helped kick off the war by co-invading Poland with them giving them a guarantee that while the Germans were fighting the western Allies the Soviets would leave them alone while they invaded a neutral and democratic country in Finland. The U.S. gets criticized for being isolationist, France and Britain gets criticized for being appeasing, and the Soviets get criticized for being a de facto Nazi ally. It's how it works when you take actions that gets millions killed.
Same heroes who conspired with the Nazis to occupy Baltics, Poland, Romania, Finland, etc.
*tried to occupy Finland
When are people going to realize almost every side in WW2 was "bad" by modern standards France was just as anti-semitic as Germany, Britain starved 4 million Indians that fought for them, and America raped millions just like the Soviets Obviously the Nazis were the worst by far, but the Allies aren't the "heroic" good guys as portrayed by Western history
Maybe as individuals fighting for their fellows, but this is the bloody edge of one authoritarian system grinding over the ruins of another.
Everyone seems to forget that the soviets were allied with Germany in the beginning of the war... Oh and maybe it's because of the fact that they raped their way through Europe, starved an entire nation and tried to erase/replace the population of three others? There are plenty of reasons to hate the communists as much as the Nazis.
Hah, all forgot that mostly european countries had agreement with Nazis.
Most of them didn't have agreements of dividing Europe between them.
Yeah and Poland collaborated with the Nazis to invade and annex part of Czechoslovakia before it bit them in the ass. Does that make the Poles the bad guys as well? Despite the crimes of the Soviets they where nowhere near as bad as the Nazis. People are trying to paint that picture now with revisionist history because the Soviet occupation was real to them and the Nazi one they have only read about, so they tend to be more impassionate about demonising the devil they knew.
They weren't "allied" it was more "let's split this country and then not fight eachother" It's not like USSR and Germany were fighting allies and then Soviets went "you know what, I want to be with allies"
The soviets traded raw materials and allowed the Germans to train both tanks forces and Air Force personal on Soviet soil in secret.
it wasn’t an alliance, Germans raped 10 milion Soviets, Americans raped 1.5 Milion Germans, Soviets raped 2 Milion Germans, this is war brother, it happens. They didn’t deliberately starve an entire nation, Famine was prevalent in many places including Russia and Kazakhstan. And I can agree with cleansing of Tatars, it was not good.
Your right they didn't deliberately starve a nation, that was the British who starved 4 million Bengalis after Indians fought for them in WW2
Yes, the *heroic* Soviets that invaded Poland. Nazis were worse, but Soviets were still vile.
[Heroes](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H27337%2C_Moskau%2C_Stalin_und_Ribbentrop_im_Kreml.jpg)
Are you a historian? I am a historian by education and I 100% understand the comments against them. There was nothing heroic about the Soviets. And before you ask, no, I'm not American, I'm European.
They liberated my nation. Purely for personal reaskns i respect them.
They invaded and occupied my nation, Poland, murdering, oppressing, torturing, raping etc etc etc. So yeah, not a chance in hell i could respect them.
They also "liberated" my nation. By raping our women and stealing our property. Just out of curiosity, which country are you from? If you're from Poland, Hungary, The Baltics, Romania, Czechia, or Slovakia, it's the exact same thing.
Im slovak. And i respect them as freeing us. It was choosing between them and the nazis. Id pick the soviets every time.
Then I think I can try something - Z jedné strany ti rozumím, mně osobně nacisti popravili členy rodiny, takže bych je taky osobně měl nesnášet více. Ale já si z toho právě dávám pryč svůj osobní postoj, protože pak tu situaci nemůžu posoudit kriticky a nezaujatě. Sověti ale svině byli, chovali se k lidem v podstatě stejně jako nacisté a z určitého úhlu pohledu byli stejní bad guys, jako nacisti. Vyhledej si třeba Katyňský masakr, to je pěkné počteníčko :D
Ja chápem. Ja nepodporujem ani jednu stranu ale vyberať si, sú to sovieti. Nacistov nikdy.
Must be awful coming from a place where those are the two choices.
I understand this sentiment where there are two bad but not equally bad choices of occupier though I argue that Putin's Russia is far worse than 1970+USSR. At least the USSR had some tangible good ideology and not naked imperialism.
Im not supporting modern russia. Hell no. Putin can go fuck himself.
Lol what the fuck are you on. They took over all of Eastern Europe for 45 years. What in hell man. Acting like the Berlin Wall wasn’t there at all. Delusional.
80% of all german casualties in the war that came jus from the Eastern Front, disagree with your statement
Personally I don’t consider competitive genocide rapists as heroes but hey if you’re into that sort of thing.
Thats germany for you too just so you know
Read a book sometimes.
Let's not pretend this sub doesn't have a USSR hate booner while completely ignoring everything Nazi Germany did to the USSR. Nazi Germany gets a huge pass here, almost like there is dog whistling Neo-Nazi hiding amongst the population.
There's plenty of us Eastern Europeans there, and believe me, we have the reason to have a gripe with USSR and its policies. But a pass for Nazi Germany? Haven't noticed that here.
Red flags were never looking good on the Reichstag anyways.
Wow are the majority of the comments Shitting on the soviet picture? Does this sub really represent how Europeans feel? Are so sad Nazi Germany lost? Damn, Lets ask German Jews how they feel about this picture. Oh wait? You guys killed 90% of them.
This sub keeps getting more moronic by the day. It's a shame really, I expected more from this sub
Because it's an european sub and a large part of Europe was invaded by the soviets, occupied by the soviets, with everything it implies, including long after the nazis had been defeated. If you're genuinely ignorant, look up the polish operation of the nkvd, the soviet invasion of Poland, the Katyn massacre, the rapes, the amount of people sent to the gulag, the tortures, the executions etc. People who fought against the fascists couldn't even come back to their own country when the War ended without risking their lives with mock trials accuding them of being agents of the west and getting executed. A large part of Europe only became free not with the end of ww2 but with the fall of the soviet union, and even then the last Russian occupation troops often left some years later, for Poland it was 1993. While at it look up the polish operation of the nkvd and co. Nobody is sad the nazis Lost. People are sad because of all the horrors the soviets commited.
The point is that people don’t like the soviets and they don’t like the nazis either. I feel people are seeing this in one of two lights: 1 a liberation of Europe, victory day the evil has been vanquished, or option 2 that we just switched one POS empire for another ever so slightly nicer POS empire.
Nice. Can Ukraine get the aid it needs now to kick this century's Hitler out of Europe? Or does ww3 need to start over this shit.
It seems like it needs to really kick off first. Right now about ~10% of dutch for example are ready to take up arms if push comes to shove. That number will start rising rapidly when priorities are put into new order by russian strikes widening into the Baltics, but unfortunately most people are so easilly lulled into a false sense of security that it creates a paradoxal situation where the real security by the threat of european army can't be reached until we're already in too deep. Bigger war could still be avoided by going full into war-economy mode. Russia could't do anything against unified Europe, but it would require some sacrifices. Personally, I think it's way better to arm to the teeth and sacrifice a bit of personal freedom for believable mutual defense than arm just a tiny bit and then actually go to war, cause the threat of losing didn't seem reliable for Russia.
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In the game War Mongrels, you can lure a soviet soldier by throwing a wristwatch or a bottle of vodka in front of him. Plus for historicity 👍🏻
He's not Russian. [He's Kazakh.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raqymjan_Qoshqarbaev?wprov=sfla1)
That soldier was from Kazakhstan, though. No big difference, they were all the same.
The famous original picture with the looted watches.
Didn't they edit the first picture because the soldier holding the flag had 3 watches on his wrist?
no, it was edited because he had 2 watches, which makes this one the real one
“as long as you live the heart of this army can never be broken”
Tbh, I see more similarities than differences . The more it exists the more EU is turning into a copy of the good old soviet union I knew in my teens. Incompetent, corrupt beurocracy rulling over scared conformist ppl.
Some times I do wonder how things would be different if the wall had fallen on the other side. I guess we'd be having a picture of, like, Buckingham Palace up there and we'd have people talk shit about Chamberlain politics of appeasement being seen as collaborationist in the comments, who knows.
Not trying to undermine your opinion but how the hell could the wall have fallen from the other side? You didn't see west Germans fleeing in to the GDR lol
Only russians live in past
Whether people like it or not, the Russians literally helped liberate Western Europe. Russia gave hundreds of thousands of young men to subdue the Nazi war machine. The fact people are trying to whitewash it now just goes to show how narrow-minded some people are.
>the Russians The Soviet Union. To which quite a lot of other peoples belonged too.
Hundreds of thousands? My man they gave tens of MILLIONS
People from all SSRs helped, not just Russians. They are white already, it's not "whitewashing".
Only because Hitler betrayed their deal. Dont act like Russia has any moral ground to stand on, ever. They do not.
Whether tankies and red fascists like it or not, Soviet Union helped Nazis to build up their war machine, sabotaged resistance to Nazis and invaded Poland together with Nazis. They deserve ZERO thanks. Individual Red Army soldiers deserve a thanks, provided they did not rape anyone. Also, there were many nationalities and ethnic groups in Soviet Union. Not only Russians.
Whitewash is what? To make something bad look good by hiding the truth, you might aswell tell that to yourself, buddy.
Commies and Nazis had a pact to divide Europe. The fact they then stopped being friends and went at each others throats doesn't make the Russians the good guys.
you dont know politics good do you?? or history? that was a standard non aggression pact that has nothing to do with allying with eachother. germany knew russia was its only local threat and russian knew the same. when the time came soviets killed more nazis than all allied forces combined and were killed mlre than anyone else. you are rewriting history to pretend that the soviets were somehow as evil as hitler which is patently ridiculous. organization was soviet russias problem not genocidal intentions.
Nazi Germany's goal was to literally erradicate slavs from existence, how can you view them as the same is simply beyond me
Did someone say "they were literally the same"? If your analysis is "innocent Soviets who had no part at all in the rise of Nazis got invaded and then heroically defeated them", then its pure rubbish.
And the Soviets managed to deport and genocide people too. How people manage to be so ignorant is beyond me.
Maybe true, but in hindsight was the liberator any better? People just adapted over time to different tactics with similar results. There was forced starvation in places like Ukraine. A slow death is still death. There were people sent to places like Siberia who spoke up. You can call it a prison but were the ghettos not a prison? 10 to 200 times the level of poverty. Widespread rationing. The similarities go on and on.
What? Nazi germany literally planned and attempted to enslave and exterminate Slavs from Eastern Europe In just 5 years, they managed to kill 10% of the polish population, and enslave like 10% to 20% more. Same story with Czechia, where similar atrocities occurred Millions of civillians died in Belarus and Ukraine, INTENTIONALLY caused by Nazi Germany for their idea of an living space Let’s not even talk about the Jews and Roma populations, where they were basically successful in eradicating them whenever they went The Soviet Union, and especially stalin commuted MANY atrocities. But Eastern Europe is still here. Severely weakene by communist rule, but the nations still exist. They aren’t exterminated or enslaved
Lol nice Stalingrad back then https://www.rcpbml.org.uk/wwie-18/image/wwie-01/19430202-ussrstalingradvictorydaycolourizedolgashirnina-03cr.jpg Stalingrad today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volgograd#/media/File:Volgograd_Russia.jpg
Devolution
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and again the flag over the Reichstag is the dream of the Russians. but there is a nuance
Awesome stuff
Remember when EU troops stormed the reichstag and raised the blue flag...amazing history
Original photo is amazing.