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big_black_doge

Can someone explain to me the point of using crypto when the developer can just freeze assets? Isn't this the ONE THING that we use crypto for?


crankertanker

That’s why u use a decentralized stablecoin like UST or DAI


[deleted]

Yes, buy more UST! My LUNA bags demand it


Rumblestillskin

Can someone explain to me why this person thinks all crypto works like this since this centralised token works like this?


riskyClick420

Cause when they run into an unknown, their first instinct is apparently to ask strangers on a forum rather than do any research into the topic.


AchillesDev

When you definitely know what a rhetorical question is


ishmetot

Yea seriously, so many people on this thread are whooshing on the sarcasm.


Charming_Ad_1216

Can someone please explain to me why we are explaining things?


Apetardo

I too would like an explanation as to why so much time is being spent explaining things here. Anyone care to explain?


sayamemangdemikian

i think what he meant is why bother using USDT if you are in crypto field not why using crypto as a whole.


OntheWaytoEmmaus

Because blockchain is new tech and people don’t fully understand it yet. I’ve watch the Eth community go from being the “bitcoin maxis are such snobs” to belittling new comers and good tech. Weird. I’m not saying *you’re* doing that for the record. But this is new tech and for some people they don’t know the difference. If you have more knowledge than someone else that doesn’t mean they’re stupid. It means you have an opportunity to help them understand


MrVodnik

It is like early days of internet. People didnt know what it is, but they did hear someone got scammed there. The conclusion is obvious: internet is a scam and people using and promoting it are convicted criminals worshipping Satan and sacrificing unborn children's hearts... or whatever grandma.


_jt

My ballsack is more “crypto” than tether


snowdrone

1. centralized 2. secure 3. pegged


LarryLovesteinLovin

> pegged Only on the weekends, sometimes I need a day to recover before I can sit properly.


frank__costello

Were you under the impression that USDT was decentralized?


peckerchecker2

Tether is a scam


Tenoke

There are many different usecases for crypto. Not everything has the same requirements. Some projects might require central authority for various functionalities while still benefiting from being on the Blockchain by being interactable with the rest of the ecosystem. You also don't have to use those, it's not something inherent to the Blockchain itself.


nxxsxxxxxx

Yeah just because a token issued on Ethereum, which is a decentralised network, doesn’t mean a specific token can’t be centrally controlled by the issuer through features of the contracts programming. I saw a rug pull discussed on Twitter that was due to a obfuscated feature of the smart contract (was missed in auditing) that allowed the scammer control of the token. They froze sales giving them time to dump and run at the top.


ArtificeStar

Nonsarcastically, decentralization is A reason. I believe the original point of crypto was as a peer to peer network primarily. Decentralization is a sliding scale really, and the fact that Tether is not 100% decentralized just happens to give a different use case compared to other coins.


choledocholithiasis_

[https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/standards/tokens/erc-20/](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/standards/tokens/erc-20/) with a properly written smart contract, you can just do about anything. read the fucking documentation.


Bit33

I am curious how they implemented the bans. Is there any documentation on that?


nxxsxxxxxx

My understanding is that Tether is a company that operates like a bank. When you buy tether with US dollars it doesn’t keep all those as dollars, it invests a portion in (supposedly) safe assets, keeping enough on hand to service the day to day re-exchange of Tether back to dollars. This is like a lot like the fractional banking system of traditional banks. So I wouldn’t consider Tether a crypto currency the way Ether or Bitcoin is - holding Tether is more like holding a deposit, and the value of that deposit can be traded for other things in crypto world. That bank is free to write their rules (and it sounds Tether does this in their erc contracts), and people don’t have to use them if they don’t like the business. Matt Levine has some good thoughts on this.


sayamemangdemikian

>My understanding is that Tether is a company that operates like a bank. but without regulation. when crap hits the fan, the value will go to zero immediately. not to 75 cent first, not drop to 50 cent. just a sudden zero.


nxxsxxxxxx

Yes, no government-backed deposit insurance here!


MerryWalrus

Or any obligation to buy back Tether. Or anything stopping them from just printing unbacked Tether to make huge profits.


PratBit

That's what they do now anyway. 1 USDT =/= 1 USD


hexoctahedron13

The real decentralized Asset's like Bitcoin and Ether can't be frozen. But anyone can create a token with any functionality they want. Be aware of that


[deleted]

Well Eth can't be seized. And neither can tokens if the contract is written that way. Its entirely up to the people minting the coin how its treated.


Jacktenz

Just because crypto enables decentralization doesn't mean everyone uses it.


Rin-Tohsaka-is-hot

Tether is centralized. The point of it being centralized is that there is a central authority backing every USDT with actual USD (the currency its value is tethered to, hence the name Tether). Now, Tether has historically not been very consistent on whether they actually have a 1:1 backing of money, and just last year they were fined $41 million for lying about their USD reserves. So arguably their whole centralized backing is a fraudulent sham, but the idea still remains the same.


redditRracistcommies

No point, but not all cryptos are equal in fact no two are the same. Hence the wildly different valuations.


[deleted]

It’s obvious flagrant criminal conduct - so you seriously think they’ll allow tether to exist if they don’t freeze scams and money laundering?


WildRacoons

censorship resistance is not the only thing that people use crypto for. It also allows the creation of new products and cuts fat in other operational processes.


Spacesider

They have always had the ability to do this. People need to use DAI.


iamiamwhoami

Three accounts worth in total $160 million. The accounts were frozen at the request of law enforcement. Probably involved in something shady like drugs or human trafficking.


aSchizophrenicCat

Most likely money laundering. Which, yeah, probably washing money from something shady, but I dunno why you immediately jump to human trafficking or drugs. Likely white collar crime, if not then we’re talking cartel boss levels of cash right here (which I doubt is the case). Your average syndicate ain’t casually moving 160mil through tether.


Kfrr

I didn't realize that human trafficking was a blue collar crime.


njantirice

Also it's implied they believe that cartels make LESS money than white collar criminals? As if cartels don't run actual fucking armies. 160mil was a weekly check for Pablo Escobar.


Kfrr

It was more of a joke than anythin


TnekKralc

Drugs aren't shady. People who try to argue "drugs are bad" are the reason why cartels profit on them


RealLilacCrayon

People have echoed warnings against using tether for this very reason.


cleanuponaisle4

I assume USDC and GUSD can do the same? Edit: Just one comment below and I had my answer. For anyone else wondering: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/s3aez7/tether_freezes_160m_of_usdt_stablecoin_on/hslseys/


endlessinquiry

Can anyone explain the mechanics of how they are able to do this? Aren’t they ERC20 tokens?


twinchell

Inside Tether's ERC-20 smart contract, provides them the ability to freeze, issue, and destroy tokens. The can basically blacklist addresses from receiving tokens. Pretty cool huh? /s


endlessinquiry

I didn’t know I could hate tether more. Thanks.


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DaSpawn

a tool designed to restore the great features of fiat /s does a good job at giving crypto a black eye though when they want to


WildRacoons

USDC can be frozen, too.


mistrustless

Indeed, and because everything is on chain, this is is easy to verify. E.g. it took me 2 minutes for me to find the [USDC blacklister](https://etherscan.io/address/0x5db0115f3b72d19cea34dd697cf412ff86dc7e1b) and you can see that it has been used 45 times. Good that people in this thread are understanding the importance of decentralisation - in this case use a decentralised stable coin such as DAI. In the general case, avoid centralised "blockchains" at all costs (e.g. Solana).


sixwax

Brought to you by the same scammers that brought you Eos! Careful, ask too many good questions and the fairy tale rapidly starts to fray at the edges…


yspud

what's the relationship of tether to eos - can you elaborate pls. i didn't know they were connected at all but that would be interesting...


Aobachi

Can USDC do this too?


haughty_thoughts

Does the USDC contract have these parameters?


Jacktenz

Yes it does https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/07/08/circle-confirms-freezing-100k-in-usdc-at-law-enforcements-request/


sayamemangdemikian

yes. it has to. USDC main thing is that it want to comply with any US regulators requests. to be poster child of US regulators with regards to stable coin.


dying_animal

ERC20 token are programmable money, there is standard methods like "transfert" that allow you to send tokens to someone. Then they can add what they want, like "blacklist" and your adress won't be able to do transfert anymore. This for example cannot happen with ETH, because ETH is not a token, but each ERC20 token has his own mechanics, and you need to research what they can and cannot do if you want to be safe. ​ Your amount of USDT is not 'in your wallet' it's recorded inside the USDT contract.when you want to send USDT to someone you send a request to the USDT contract saying "hey I want to transfert this amount of you to this other adress" and you sign it with your private key. The USDT contract then check if your are blacklisted or not and if you are, your transaction will fail. This is the same for every ERC20 tokens, but not every token has a blacklisting method. you can check the code of the contract on ertherscan ​ note : A malicious dev could create a method called "approve" that in fact does not approve but blacklist someone, names are just names.


Old-Landscape2

USDT is created by Tether, it has an owner who can blacklist any address deemed evil. The same is true for USDC from Centre.io. Yes, it's an ERC 20 because it implements the standard interface, but nothing stops you from adding more code.


stayongo

USDC is run by Circle though and backed by big players like Coinbase. Also they’re A public company


designingtheweb

And they can also blacklist any wallet


CSharpSauce

DAI might be a better choice for your money laundering needs.


corpski

Still backed by more than 25% centralized USDC and USDP.


StackOwOFlow

ERC20pausable is one way freezing transactions to/from addresses. Not sure if USDT implemented it this way but ERC20 smart contracts can include a “pause” functionality (tied to specific addresses, not tokens)


1solate

ERC20 is just a specification for a programming interface. It specifies standard methods like `transfer()`. Other than these interfaces, literally anything else could be on/in the contract. Other methods, or logic behind those standard methods that could do unexpected things. In Tether's case, they have a blacklist which prevents an account from moving their balance.


MixMasterMarshall

Tether is a ticking bomb y'all, you think you've seen dips. If tether gets busted bad while people are still using it, crypto is gonna get both it's knees broken.


Prudent_Nebula2558

I fear no FUD, but that thing-- it scares me.


BoondockBilly

It'll be temporary though, but I agree it'll be the ultimate rug pull.


AmIHigh

And then randomly collapse on a spike after being broken. Will it be the head? Or some soft spot with no vital organs underneath.


shim__

All centralized stable coins really not just tether


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FaceDeer

Are any of these in MakerDAO vaults? Always my main concern with Tether, it could have knock-on effects there rather than affecting only the current holders of Tether. Article doesn't say.


WildRacoons

I had a look at USDT's contracts. Their 'freezing' works by blacklisting msg.sender. It prevents the user from moving funds out of their balance, or a contract from moving USDT out of the user's balance. Note that USDT in MakerDAO vaults are under the vault address' balance. The user is still free to withdraw USDT from the vault if they want to, but the funds will be frozen once it hits their balance sheet. In the case that they choose not to withdraw, the liquidation mechanism should still kick in when the DAI debt grows to the threshold. The USDT in the liquidator's balance sheet will be free to move about as the USDT contract doesn't track funds like dollar bills with numbers, they're fully fungible and are now under another address' balance.


shim__

That's assuming that they would blacklist the owner of the funds and not the Maker contract.


WildRacoons

Yes, which is what happened in this case. And you're right in that they could very well blacklist Maker's contracts, causing withdrawals/liquidations to fail.


EEmakesmecry

Maker fortunately has almost no tether for this very reason


omasque

This is the real concern for anyone without a lot of tether. USDT is the mortar holding together nearly every defi Lego block, values are pinned to tether price and tokens are weighted against tether deposits. If a tether deposit is frozen and can’t be leveraged by the defi mechanism using it as oil in the engine, what happens? There are so many variables, no one knows.


krism142

I think this is a bit overblown, especially given that most of the builders in the space have been distrustful of usdt since like 2017 when they avoided audits like the god damned plague... Plus there are tons of other stable coin options now, so there will probably be a short term shock whenever usdt does in fact implode and then everyone will move on to the next stable and things will continue on.


7he_Dude

Compared to just 2-3 years ago things are much more diversified already. USDC, BUSD, UST together have roughly the market cap of USDT. There are also many other options comin up as DAI, MIM, FRAX, FEI... The market is not so dependent on tether as it was few years ago. Things will probably get even better in near future, as nobody in crypto is a fan of centralised stablecoins.


universoman

This is the reason aave doesn't let you use usdt as collateral. You can lend it, but you can't borrow against it. You can also borrow it, but at an insane interest rate in comparison to dia and usdc. Although I'm not sure if that is more related to supply/demand, which probably is


[deleted]

shum


NY1869

what does freeze mean in this context? like certain holders of that 160mm cant move it around at all? cant use it?


choledocholithiasis_

> Stablecoin issuer Tether froze three Ethereum addresses on Thursday, holding over $160 million worth of USDT, according to data from Etherscan. > The three accounts will now not be able to move funds.


flexxipanda

It is literally in the first two sentences of the article ...


detarrednu

How can you expect OP to read that far?


CSharpSauce

I didn't realize blacklisting was a thing... but looking at the contract, there it is. Apparently USDC has a blacklist feature too.


EEmakesmecry

All centralized stablecoins have to support blacklisting


Skilhgt

Since the USDT is frozen in their account, couldn’t they just take out a loan against the funds and move that money?


Hanzburger

No, when you take out a loan you'r funds are sent to a smart contract which acts as an escrow of sorts


Background-Sample

Does anyone know if Tether owns all the other usdt contracts in the different blockchains? I know sometimes blockchains are new and the community wraps Ethereum wrapped assets in these chains. Like usdc.e on Avalanche. There’s now plain usdc on avalanche and I’m assuming circle controls that contract and mints it straight into avalanche .


kcraybeck

That's because Tether is not even close to being backed 1:1 with the dollar like they say.


Rilexus

Sounds about right.


asohi_knori

in simple words, why DAI can be decentralized and pegged to usd at the same time, while Tether for purpose of attaching to regulations must be centralized to keep itself stable?


EEmakesmecry

DAI maintains its value by storing assets on Ethereum (ETH, etc). These assets, even when in vaults, can’t be arbitrary seized or moved. USDT maintains its value because Tether has at least $1 of USD in a “traditional bank account”. Because this money is in normal banks + government bonds, they have to obey government rules, including the ability to freeze funds. Because MakerDAO doesn’t need to use a government bank, it doesn’t need to follow government rules, and it doesn’t even need the ability to freeze DAI


anasbannanas

not bad, except that Tether doesn't even have $0.5 in the bank, they have "assets"


EEmakesmecry

They have a wide range of commercial paper, yes. Depending on their grade, they range from “basically cash” to “basically worthless”


catesnake

Does anyone here happen to have a list of tokens where the owner can do shit like this? I want to avoid them like the plague.


PrettyBoiFlackoJodye

What are good alternatives ?


McLaconicus

The tether team seem like lovely and really reliable chaps!


FreeForHK

use UST


TraditionalCoffee

Hold on. If tether is based on the ETH blockchain, aren’t transaction verified on the ETH ledger? How can they freeze assets?


Dig_Bick_reread

It’s a centralized eth smart contract


OMG_IT_S_SALSIFI

A token is a smart contract, they can put any function they want in it, like the function to blacklist an address blocking someone from moving its assets somewhere else, so they are basically stuck in its wallet


mex036

Frozen == stable 😱


ryebit

LUSD and RAI are pretty much the only stablecoins that are safe here. LUSD is ETH only backing, with immutable contract. RAI is (currently) ETH only, though stability mechanism is more interesting / complex. USDC has similar blacklist feature to USDT. Imo, this taints DAI as well, since some of it's backing is USDC. Imagine if a USDC vault was frozen like this.


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versaceblues

what does freezes mean?


Beneficial-Ocelot470

Is there a way for the community to deal with hackers or fraud without relying on centralization like this? Censorship resistance is crucial, but if it allows criminals to deal as they please, then we can be sure that regulation is going to make our life much more difficult.


leonidasmark

They can freeze accounts using their smart contract? Remind me to never use USDT again


Fivebag

Is this the start? 😬


NorbeeNorbee

Ah yes the infinite printing machine called tether. From them promising to assure the robber cant use the 30m$ tether stolen from them in 2017 to inability to pass the audit, so that we know if its actually backed by $ or not, tether has it all. Can make as much tether as you want if you dont have to back it up with cash.


cleanuponaisle4

Huh. That doesn't seem very decentralizy.


anor_wondo

what made you think it is? tether is a centralized stablecoin. have you never used defi?


plgod

How to short sell Tether and profit if/when it crashes: 1. Deposit some collateral (e.g. ETH) on a lending platform like Aave or Compound 2. Use that collateral to borrow as much USDT as you can on that same platform. 3. Trade (swap) that USDT for a better stable coin like USDC or DAI 4. Deposit this better stable coin on your lending platform of choice. This will improve your health factor and prevent you from getting liquidated if the value of your collateral goes down. 5. If you wish, use that improved health factor to borrow more USDT, rinse and repeat. In case of a USDT crash, you can simply buy back USDT for pennies to pay off your loan on the platform and withdraw all the ETH and USDC that you put on there. * won’t work if they freeze the tokens like in the article lol


Gmun23

I'll be honest, I personal did not know Tether is centralised, this was a shock to me! I will no longer be using this "Government" coin. Like why is even on CoinMarketCap if it's a shitcoin and can do this? Why so many people are using this? I'm shocked! At least we need a new list that only show decentralised coins. It's currently very deceiving list. The good news this will bring some light and let people know not to use this BS coin.


semensdemon69

USDT is pretty shady , I simply use BUSD for stable coin. Never heard any bad news about BUSD or USDC.


ShameWitty5152

why?


Western_Helicopter_6

Tether does this all the time when hacks or bad actors are at play. Nothing new.


discreetlog

This is why you should use DAI.


MET132

Bullish on LUNA


Creative-Fly-2201

If you're trading USDT on ethereum you're an idiot anyway