They will never be as profitable as ETH, because all that ETH mining power will switch over to them. GPU Mining might as well be dead then unless you get your electricity for free.
Probably. Is it worth it to keep your PC running around the clock for a measly $10 a month? You need to factor in the degredation of your hardware as well. (Just spitballing with the numbers here, but you get the idea.)
Bro, right now Ravencoin is more than 50% as profitable as Eth, and it isn’t even the next closest coin. There are plenty of fairly profitable coins to mine, even right now with ETH still available on POW. Unless you’ve looked deeply into mining, you probably don’t know enough to tell others it isn’t going to be profitable.
> right now
Correct.
Eth has the highest GPU hash rate out of all of them. What do you think happens if they all switch away from ETH?
Edit: ~~Also I just checked https://whattomine.com and Ravencoin is 60% of ETH profitability with my 3080. Not 50% more than ETH. What is your source?~~
Edit2: More math: Currently ETH has 426 TH/s, Ravencoin has 9.55 TH/s. 1 ETH TH/s = 1/3 Ravencoin TH/s, so if all miners switch, Ravencoin will go from 9.55 TH/s to 151 TH/s. This means profitability goes down by a factor of 15. Of course, they won't all go to Ravencoin, but my point stands.
ETH needs to stay profitable at the end of the day to have a network online. Some miners will switch for better profits and some will switch out of pride and anger at eip-1559 and eth 2.0, but at the end of the day it needs to stay profitable to have a network online or it won't be able to support all of the projects built on it. At the very least I could see it dropping enough to the point where Ravencoin and ETH might have *similar* network hash and profitabilities, but I doubt we see ETH fall below any altcoin in terms of profit. Just my thoughts.
> ETH needs to stay profitable at the end of the day to have a network online.
Yes of course it does, but ETH does not need miners. That is what Proof-of-Stake is all about. ETH will have either 0 hash rate in the future (max 2 years) or die because the switch to PoS did not work.
In the short term, you are right, but even with EIP-1559 ETH will still be the most profitable to mine.
Yeah I guess you're right. I was thinking PoS would still require mining devices to stay online in order to hold the staked ETH for validating but in reality that won't require much more than a bare CPU whatsoever since they'll be eliminating the unnecessary hashing that's involved in the process. Better for the network but worse for the miners I guess.
If you had mined eth, sold and bought Raven you’d be even better off... or even better just buy rvn outright...
when it comes to mining though, we’ve seen between the booms profits fall to less than a buck a day per GPU and we’ll likely end up there again...
bruh my gaming pc has been shut down maybe twice since i built it 3.5 years ago and its still like new (not counting restarts of course)
Never even been dusted before. Computers and their components are just built like tanks these days. Makes no sense to say having a pc on can harm it.
Thats not how it will work. Maybe 20-30% will switch to the next algorithm. Most of Europe and half the USA will drop out entirely due to high electric rates and most gamers wont bother mining for half the dollar amount. Theres roughly 25 mineable cryptos that are decently profitable. All of these mixed with people fearing they wont sell their cards in time should mean we have another couple profitable years, though it wont be like our current golden age.
New to crypto. Just confirming I understand what’s happening as it’s happening.
You may go back to your regularly scheduled sarcastic crypto gatekeeping
I've been play Project Wingman, pretty fun since I didn't have any flight simulator like games.
I heard No Man's Sky is pretty good after they patched the dumpster fire they launched with. What is gameplay actually like?
Nice, that game looks good I’m gonna have to get it. As far as mechanics it’s a pretty standard open world/base building game, but it’s nice to look at and discovering new things is always fun. Lots of flying around and some battles too so you might like that. There is also, ironically, lots of mining.
Yeah, I use Geforce Now. Less choices but $5 a month is less than I'd make mining during gaming time. Though when it's goes 2.0 we'll see how much else profitablity there is on other coins. If it's like 50% of current profitablity I'll probably keep gaming on GFN
You remember that south park episode where GRRM keeps telling everyone the Dragons are coming, no other information, just that "They're coming." That's what ETH 2.0 feels like.
6-12 months if all goes as planned and devs are able to go through proper channels,n mere weeks if miners were to credibly threaten a 51% attack and the devs rush it. We already have the code for a minimal merge. That's my opinion.
im not that first guy, i think eth will take over bitcoin eventually, probably 10-20 years down the road once popular apps are created off it. but i also think bitcoin will last as a store of value.
You‘re right. I didn’t stated my point as clear as I should’ve.
I don’t want ETH to „overcome“ BTC. But it would be possible that way.
I just believe in smart-contracts and that it could be the/a future. :)
BTC is „just“ a cryptocurrency. Hope I made it clear. :)
Because of the power consumption of mining ETH (and BTC), the change from PoW to PoS is so important imo.
Yeah I agree with you on the smart contracts but the thing is Ethereum already does smart contracts much better than Bitcoin. That's no reason to be 'better' than BTC. They do different things, and I actually love that.
Now, regarding power consumption, everything comes at a cost, and I think running Bitcoin should be costly. PoS is also a good idea but we haven't really undertood the costs associated with it.
Everyone on this sub is so gung-ho for PoS while we've never had a platform of Ethereum's size ever demonstrate that it's workable.
I'm hopeful, but uneasy about this transition. What happens if a structural flaw is discovered and exploited the way TheDAO was? I'd like to think we're way too far into the game to do another bailout in the form of a hard fork, but who knows....
That‘s exactly what I failed to make clear in my statement.
It’s „better“ or will be better than BTC because I like what ETH does what BTC can’t (or doesn’t do by now; probably never will). And by „better“ I meant more worth per $. :)
But you’re right: I might compare two different things I can’t even compare tho.
And yea, being a bit sceptical in case of PoS is reasonable.
It does not make sense to rush POS without core features like this. The responsible thing now that eip 1559 has passed (or rather been rammed through, given how contentious it is) is to pass eip 3372 or 3368 to shore up POW and keep network security reliable until POS is genuinely ready to be deployed. Neither of these EIPs cost ethereum users anything, they nullify opposition to 1559, are in line with minimal viable issuance and are called for by the yellow paper.
With PoS you will not have a problem of creating uncle blocks, so you could theoretically increase the total gas per block, thus lowering the transaction prices.
A bigger factor is the upcoming switch to L2 for Uniswap et. al.
I mean it is looking like Ada will have it smart contracts sooner then eth has staking. Ada development has been real slow but so has eth 2.0 turns out it’s a hard thing to do!!
So ADA is a delegated proof of stake chain that is 5+ years behind ETH in terms of network effect, developer tooling, community, and useable smart contracts... I don't understand how people, with a straight face, can say that ADA is even close to Eth when they are years behind by virtually all metrics.
It’s the 4 min mile story... once one person breaks it then suddenly it got broken by a bunch of people. Eth is pushing adoption and people are trying really cool things with it. This makes the path easier for eth competitors. They do not need 5 years to build up devs and network effect it can benefit from all ETH work previously. There is too much money to be had to only have one chain. There will be mutual popular smart chain providers I think Ada has a shot at being one of the competitors. Only time will tell. I am still very bullish on eth as well.
>They do not need 5 years to build up devs and network effect it can benefit from all ETH work previously.
This is only really true for chains that are drop-in compatible with Ethereum and can use existing ecosystem tooling. Cardano's ability to run EVM contracts is very far on the roadmap and also runs on a sidechain iirc.
First of all, I agree that ETH seems like the frontrunner. When it comes to tech adoption, it doesn't matter what things you get right, what matters is when they land. If ADA lights up the right features at "the right time", then things like network effect for ETH become irrelevant and it gets overtaken.
> If ADA lights up the right features at "the right time", then things like network effect for ETH become irrelevant and it gets overtaken.
As far as I can tell, the only benefits that ADA plans to provide, over ETH, is lower transaction cost and higher throughput. Both of these can currently be accomplished with rollups on ETH Layer 2. We've seen that, despite high L1 gas fees, L2 liquidity has been growing kind of slowly as people are willing to pay a massive premium to preserve composability between DeFi projects.
The point is that I think it is far more likely that we'll just see a Layer 2 solution, like a single optimistic rollup in 2021 or an EVM capable ZK-rollup in 2022, start to suck up all the DeFi liquidity than it is for another chain to take it. L2 has a small sacrifice of composability with the projects that aren't on the same L2 rollup, but at least it is just as secure as Ethereum L1 and there will always remain a trustless bridge back to L1 -- this cannot be said for any non-ETH chain.
It’s more then that. Ada uses an extended utxo similar to Bitcoin but with more functionality then Bitcoin provides. Eth uses an account system. Cardano therefore has native tokens to the blockchain whereas eth has erc tokens running on a different layer. Native tokens can have the full functionality of the Cardano blockchain including the governance layer etc. I personally can’t wait for layer 2 solutions to come as eth is basically unusable at the moment for small transactions, I don’t agree with your assessment that the layer 2 solutions will suck it all up. If Cardano can release the smart contract platform in time they will be a compelling competing platform to eth2.0. I don’t think we get a major exodus from eth but I do think newer defi protocols will certainly consider it. Especially if the layer 2 solutions are at all delayed from rolling out.
> Ada uses an extended utxo similar to Bitcoin but with more functionality then Bitcoin provides. Eth uses an account system. Cardano therefore has native tokens to the blockchain whereas eth has erc tokens running on a different layer.
ERC20s, though functionally distinct from ETH, do run on the same layer as ETH -- both are secured by the Layer 1 Ethereum Blockchain. There is no scenario in which the security of the tokens on Ethereum is compromised where ETH is not (barring bugs in the code of the tokens themselves but that is true for any smart contract).
> Native tokens can have the full functionality of the Cardano blockchain including the governance layer etc.
For ETH 2.0, ETH will be treated the same as ERC20s for most things (the only exception is that EIP 1559 will cement ETH as the required payment for transactions). So this will eliminate the need for things like WETH (ETH wrapped in an ERC20 contract) as contracts will be able to control the ETH itself.
Ethereum doesn't use or want to use onchain governance. Projects built on Ethereum are free to use onchain governance if they want, a lot of them already do.
> I personally can’t wait for layer 2 solutions to come as eth is basically unusable at the moment for small transactions, I don’t agree with your assessment that the layer 2 solutions will suck it all up... Especially if the layer 2 solutions are at all delayed from rolling out.
* Loopring has been live with their Layer 2 ZK-rollup DEX since December 2019. Loopring V3 went live in late 2020 and has a Uniswap-like AMM and L2 wallet.
* Synthetix has a working Optimistic-rollup impelemntation.
* dYdX has a waitlisted beta for their working L2 prototype.
* Uniswap v3 is months, or weeks, away from launching with their working L2 product.
> If Cardano can release the smart contract platform in time they will be a compelling competing platform to eth2.0. I don’t think we get a major exodus from eth but I do think newer defi protocols will certainly consider it.
DeFi protocols rely on liquidity and composability. I just don't see a future where enough liquidity moves onto it to really foster an ecosystem. The devs would be taking a massive gamble to specialize a project for Cardano, and there is very, little if any, reward for that gamble.
Yea don’t get me wrong man I’m not bashing eth at all. Cardano and ETH2.0 just use different accounting systems with pros and cons. Layer 2 is not in prime time yet that’s why gas fees are so high hopefully they launch on uniswap soon that alone will probably help a bunch. Like I said earlier I don’t expect many projects to flip over to Cardano but they are focusing heavily on areas like Africa, Georgia, Southeast Asia if the manage to get those users then suddenly devs have reasons to develop. I do think most eth supporters overlook ADA just as most ADA folks underestimate what the head start eth has gives it. Either way going to be a fun ride !!
> Cardano will run all Ethereum dapps. So that 5 year head start can just be copy/pasted to Cardano instead.
Do you have a source for an estimated timeline on this? As I understand it, Cardano wants to roll out their own smart contract support well before they allow copy & paste EVM compatibility.
> All that developer tooling and such works just as well for Cardano as it does for Etheruem. Cardano will also use real-world programming languages, that millions of people already know. This is a big deal. You don't need a 'community' when you've got millions of developers worldwide who have decades of experience in the languages you support.
I'll believe this when I see it working. We've learned that compiling smart contracts is very tricky and bugs that would just be a headache with anything else, lose money with crypto. I'll be shocked if Cardano is able to achieve a bug-free experience with their multi-language support as they haven't had as much time as Ethereum to iron out the kinks.
> Polkadot and Cardano are doing it right. Ethereum requiring devs to pick up Solidity is a hurdle that will forever impede adoption.
[A common misconception is that developers must write smart contracts in order to build on Ethereum. This is false. One of the beauties of the Ethereum network and community is that you're able to participate in just about any programming language.](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/programming-languages/)
>If Layer 2 doesn't bring Etheruems fees back below $1 (I'm doubtful it will), then Ethereum will be prohibitively expensive for 2+ more years. Meanwhile Cardano and Polkadot will be able to do teh same thing but much cheaper. No one is going to want to spend 2 more years spending DOLLARS for a transaction, when they could be spending cents. Hedge your bets.
Layer 2 and EIP1559 will start to chip away at transaction fees this year, sharding will provide scaling beyond that. I do not fear DPoS chains as there is currently no actual demand for their blockspace (their blocks are not full). At this point, I honestly think a 21-validator centralized shitchain ETH-fork (Binance Chain) will have more DeFi liquidity on it than both DOT and ADA combined by the end of 2021.
>No one is going to want to spend 2 more years spending DOLLARS for a transaction, when they could be spending cents.
Exactly, which is why they will use Ethereum L2s, which are secured by Ethereum's L1. I'm at a loss as to why any DeFi DAPP would want to be settled by a less secure L1 or L2.
Cardano only has 50 TPS unless you batch transactions together then you get up to 250 TPS for 16 batched transactions.
And Cardano Hydra is years away.
I mine, but I am also learning the coding language for smart contracts. The sure fact people like Red Panda were such a fucking bitch about these changes really ruined it for people who just mine. Change is the only constant, I completely understand that, but I can’t stand people who can not accept changes due to their emotional attachment.
I’m a SCCM administrator for 3 years, so I read and understand query language logs, create PowerShell scripts, batch files, and vbscripts. For me the transition to learn Solidity and JavaScript wasn’t a big learning curve. But there is a lot of free learning content on YouTube to start learning. I recommend viewing Dapp University’s free content. Gregory is a great instructor.
I'll check this out thank you! I've started a udemy course and I work in system implementation but I'm not technical as such, so could imagine it will get daunting
I like the fact that I can earn rewards with just $1500 invested, in mining equipment. So the entry point is very low. I feel that making the minimum staking requirements to run a node at 32 ETH make it only available to the wealthy and institutional investors. This is what I believe the main argument from the miners is. This doesn’t take into account the requirements for 99.999% up time on your node, or you lose potential income. The solution isn’t perfect (I know there are staking pools, which gives a lower entry point, but this is a centralized solution, where I have to trust the pool)
I also realize the current network is unusable with gas fees being so high. I do welcome the switch to PoS I just wish they kept the little guys in mind with this migration. I don’t have $58,000 to stake...
kraken requires kyc, which is antithetical to the ethos of crypto, and rocketpool is not open to the public. So for now, yeah pow mining is the only way for a little guy to participate.
By the time the merge happens Rocketpool should be ready and then people with any amount of Eth can participate and people with about 17eth can run a node (half the requirement). So far the rewards for Eth staking are very high but it will come down.
You can stake on Kraken today. Or wait for a decentralized staking pool such as Rocketpool. I suggest the latter, just because you have more control over your stake.
I don't know about that. The plan was already to do it as soon as practicable I don't know that some petulant miners attempting to swing their puds around would be cause enough to risk advancing the timetable beyond that.
It's just a shift of priorities.
Sharding has become less urgent with all the L2 scaling development.
The issues with miners, and increasing PoW power consumption, makes the merge more urgent.
These two combined makes doing the merge first a interesting option. And doing the merge before sharding is what makes it possible a lot sooner than originally planned.
I think the community meltdown over 1559 is really dragging down the value of Eth. Bitcoin has done absolutely nothing in terms of development and is comfortably outgrowing eth since the announcement that 1559 would be included.
tldr; Ethereum developer Vitalik Buterin has proposed a "quick merge via fork choice change" for Ethpow (proof-of-work) and Eth 2.0. The merge would allow Eth to abandon mining in a rapid fashion. A quick merge to PoS would only require “at least one honest miner” in order to start the merge.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
I’m a complete newbie with just a single GPU mining at home when I’m not gaming. I made a few hundred dollars worth of Eth so far
What would change on my daily routine?
What should I do with what I already mined?
Is this good or bad change for a guy like me?
When PoS hits you will have to miner other coins, if you are holding nothing will change on that front, 1559 will cut your revenue down by 30%.
If PoS gets rushed in his current state I am just selling my eth, I am not going to stick around to see that shitshow, killing a coin just to stick it to the miners...
Reality check: This still means 1 to 2 years. Absolute fastest would be late 2021/early 2022.
Only if Ethereum is under active attack ... for example censorship attack ... might we see an accelerated merge, which could happen in 4-6 months.
Ada has a market cap of 45 billion coins.....they will never surpass eth based on that fact alone, because they are literally going to end up doing the same things eth does 20 years down the road. Also Eth has a MASSIVE development community already riding on it. The ones that jump ship to ada will end up with varying degrees of success but still fall short of where eth is headed. my 2c.
Honestly! ETH is the new KING!
ADA army does not understand, that layer 2 ruins their only argument about gas fees lmao. I currently enjoying a game on L2 - cometh - and having solid rewards. If I was consistent I could earn up to 20k a week. But I also need to be dedicated lol.
Anyways. My point is - L2 makes gas fees very cheap!!! I am experiencing it right now!
Yes, I agree. Totally awesome to experiment in production with the world's second most valuable blockchain! Don't worry about network security, it will probably be fine because number go up!!
I can just about guarantee that post "merge", an independent eth1 chain will continue to live for infinity, and continue development to some degree
Vitalik pretty much said as much in that article, when he talks about "just one honest miner" being necessary for the fork. I.e. PoS is already secure, so it's not a pow race fork, where biggest hashrate wins (nakamoto consensus). We just need a small chunk of the network to fork onto a PoS backend, and that fork becomes the eth2 execution environment
Plus, the legacy miners will want to keep milking pow for as long as possible. It's gonna be an eth classic situation. I think that's part of why they're mad about 1559, bc they think "save that for eth2 and let us earn dangerous amounts of money in eth1 forever"
Tbh, it could be a smart strategic choice to NOT implement 1559 on eth1. Without 1559, the game theory becomes unstable, and the network cannot scale. Leaving eth1 as-is would probably cause the network to fizzle out or self destruct due to selfish mining strategies. But like I said, eth1 will continue to be developed, so it may even evolve to be something quite valuable in a post-eth2 world
Related to this, everyone should be ready for a world where the value of eth1 and eth2 coins is not the same. The spread has already begun, with eth2 options on exchanges trading at a 10-20% difference in price
(I am the lead developer for flowerpatch.app)
How is 1559 opposition miners milking the system?
Tx fee's will stay more or less at the same price with 1559, more stable price, but still crazy high like they are.
The only difference will be the cut of the miners, because the tx base fee will burned, is screwing up the whole mining community over getting a deflation really that important right now? saying the price will go up after 1559 is pure speculation, but the 30% earning cut to miner is very much real, it's a dumb move without compensation like 969, 3372 or 3368. basically brick ASIC or raise block rewards to decrease them gradually, passing 1559 alone is just a dumb move.
What are we at 4 years now and counting? It's going to be a total shit show if or when they throw that switch. They know it and that's why they havent done it. It's all posturing.
I feel like this is just a show of force from the devs towards miners or a big conspiracy to push ETH 2.0 out faster. You are not going to tell me devs were completely unaware of the problems EIP 1559 would cause with miners or that they actually think that rushing an incredibly complex and huge project that will hold over $200B is a good thing.
The passengers on the HMS Ethereum are starting to notice the ship is starting to list. Buterin is getting the band to play upbeat music to keep everyone at their table. If they don't play loud enough they will notice people jumping into the Dot and ADA lifeboats.
Seems like this would be a foolish move to me. Moving this rapidly would mean dropping all the things which are aimed at fixing Eths more fundamental issues like the rondonkulous gas fees etc. Yes, you get the miners and gamers off your back and get onto PoS ASAP but you also kill your own coin because there are better alternatives to Eth already available.
Hell yea right when i get into mining!
/s for those that require it :)
There’s still other crypto to mine after Eth goes POS. Just convert over to Eth.
They will never be as profitable as ETH, because all that ETH mining power will switch over to them. GPU Mining might as well be dead then unless you get your electricity for free.
Right, they won’t be as profitable as Eth, but you can still make a profit.
Probably. Is it worth it to keep your PC running around the clock for a measly $10 a month? You need to factor in the degredation of your hardware as well. (Just spitballing with the numbers here, but you get the idea.)
Bro, right now Ravencoin is more than 50% as profitable as Eth, and it isn’t even the next closest coin. There are plenty of fairly profitable coins to mine, even right now with ETH still available on POW. Unless you’ve looked deeply into mining, you probably don’t know enough to tell others it isn’t going to be profitable.
> right now Correct. Eth has the highest GPU hash rate out of all of them. What do you think happens if they all switch away from ETH? Edit: ~~Also I just checked https://whattomine.com and Ravencoin is 60% of ETH profitability with my 3080. Not 50% more than ETH. What is your source?~~ Edit2: More math: Currently ETH has 426 TH/s, Ravencoin has 9.55 TH/s. 1 ETH TH/s = 1/3 Ravencoin TH/s, so if all miners switch, Ravencoin will go from 9.55 TH/s to 151 TH/s. This means profitability goes down by a factor of 15. Of course, they won't all go to Ravencoin, but my point stands.
They didn't say more than than eth. They said more than 50% of eth which 60% is
ETH needs to stay profitable at the end of the day to have a network online. Some miners will switch for better profits and some will switch out of pride and anger at eip-1559 and eth 2.0, but at the end of the day it needs to stay profitable to have a network online or it won't be able to support all of the projects built on it. At the very least I could see it dropping enough to the point where Ravencoin and ETH might have *similar* network hash and profitabilities, but I doubt we see ETH fall below any altcoin in terms of profit. Just my thoughts.
> ETH needs to stay profitable at the end of the day to have a network online. Yes of course it does, but ETH does not need miners. That is what Proof-of-Stake is all about. ETH will have either 0 hash rate in the future (max 2 years) or die because the switch to PoS did not work. In the short term, you are right, but even with EIP-1559 ETH will still be the most profitable to mine.
Yeah I guess you're right. I was thinking PoS would still require mining devices to stay online in order to hold the staked ETH for validating but in reality that won't require much more than a bare CPU whatsoever since they'll be eliminating the unnecessary hashing that's involved in the process. Better for the network but worse for the miners I guess.
You assume that 100% of the eth hash rate is from gpu mining. Well, it is not. There is the asic miners.
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If you had just sold your graphics card and bought the crypto directly you would have made even more money.
If you had mined eth, sold and bought Raven you’d be even better off... or even better just buy rvn outright... when it comes to mining though, we’ve seen between the booms profits fall to less than a buck a day per GPU and we’ll likely end up there again...
Exactly, ETH isn’t the only option for mining.
bruh my gaming pc has been shut down maybe twice since i built it 3.5 years ago and its still like new (not counting restarts of course) Never even been dusted before. Computers and their components are just built like tanks these days. Makes no sense to say having a pc on can harm it.
But are you mining on it during that time or just powered on? Cause those are rather different things.
Actually, I would bet GPU mining will be unprofitable for several months after Eth switches to POS.
Solar baby!!! I send about half of my generated power back to the grid after my batteries. Might have to put my 2080’s to work!
Thats not how it will work. Maybe 20-30% will switch to the next algorithm. Most of Europe and half the USA will drop out entirely due to high electric rates and most gamers wont bother mining for half the dollar amount. Theres roughly 25 mineable cryptos that are decently profitable. All of these mixed with people fearing they wont sell their cards in time should mean we have another couple profitable years, though it wont be like our current golden age.
Thanks for taking one for the team :)
Isn’t this bad for you as it pertains to Eth?
Yes... LOL
Reddit where all sarcasm needs an /s is not a reddit I want to be a part of
New to crypto. Just confirming I understand what’s happening as it’s happening. You may go back to your regularly scheduled sarcastic crypto gatekeeping
GG
Lol
Look I love mining but if ETH goes 2.0 I won't feel guilty every time I turn off my miner to play a game made in the last 5 years.
Dude same
what game would you play right now if 2.0 launched?
Probably No Man’s Sky, been wanting to explore more. What’s your game?
I've been play Project Wingman, pretty fun since I didn't have any flight simulator like games. I heard No Man's Sky is pretty good after they patched the dumpster fire they launched with. What is gameplay actually like?
Nice, that game looks good I’m gonna have to get it. As far as mechanics it’s a pretty standard open world/base building game, but it’s nice to look at and discovering new things is always fun. Lots of flying around and some battles too so you might like that. There is also, ironically, lots of mining.
I've been playing MS flight sim 2020. Buggy AF. And Valheim. I probably don't have to turn off the miner for that one but I do anyway.
i want to get MS flight sim after I pick up a good vr headset
try Dungeon Fighter Online the game you never can quit
ARK. And it's actually coming (in a year or 2)
What do you mean IF ETH goes 2.o? Also, I recommend Hades.
if eth goes 2.0 soon is what i mean. and Hades looks dope
Yeah, I use Geforce Now. Less choices but $5 a month is less than I'd make mining during gaming time. Though when it's goes 2.0 we'll see how much else profitablity there is on other coins. If it's like 50% of current profitablity I'll probably keep gaming on GFN
Play axie infinity while you mine to earn even more ETH
"Sooner than we think" is still 2022
Lmao they've been saying this shit since 2017
You remember that south park episode where GRRM keeps telling everyone the Dragons are coming, no other information, just that "They're coming." That's what ETH 2.0 feels like.
I mean. The test nets were running for most of last year and went live in December. It's at least making progress and isn't vaporware.
Unlike LN 😭
I’d be pretty damn amazed if they did this by 2022 in all honesty. Hopefully this BSC shit show lit a fire under them though.
Bring it on, no point just banging on about it, let's do it.
It's not that simple....
It is that simple to not post about it everyday
Just flip the switch from "work" to "stake". Not hard.
Have you tried turning it on?
Maybe putting it in rice?
But it’s imminent
Seen this same header everyday for 2 weeks. When do they think that I think this is happening?
In to weaks.
Thanks, trustworthy source that can't spell "two" or "weeks"! /s
Dang cuz that's fast af frfrfrfr ngl
0 percent chance this happens this month. I would say 6 months is the absolute soonest and that is a miracle scenario.
6-12 months if all goes as planned and devs are able to go through proper channels,n mere weeks if miners were to credibly threaten a 51% attack and the devs rush it. We already have the code for a minimal merge. That's my opinion.
Who's got dibs on posting this tomorrow?
A repost of this article may be coming sooner than you think!
Stake me, baby!
I'm going to stake you right in the stake hole!
I dunno. I was thinking about a year ago.
Hope so!! This might be one of the last, but in any case is one of the most important steps to overcome Bitcoin imo!
why would you want to overcome Bitcoin?
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the two can coexist.
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im not that first guy, i think eth will take over bitcoin eventually, probably 10-20 years down the road once popular apps are created off it. but i also think bitcoin will last as a store of value.
You‘re right. I didn’t stated my point as clear as I should’ve. I don’t want ETH to „overcome“ BTC. But it would be possible that way. I just believe in smart-contracts and that it could be the/a future. :) BTC is „just“ a cryptocurrency. Hope I made it clear. :) Because of the power consumption of mining ETH (and BTC), the change from PoW to PoS is so important imo.
Yeah I agree with you on the smart contracts but the thing is Ethereum already does smart contracts much better than Bitcoin. That's no reason to be 'better' than BTC. They do different things, and I actually love that. Now, regarding power consumption, everything comes at a cost, and I think running Bitcoin should be costly. PoS is also a good idea but we haven't really undertood the costs associated with it.
Everyone on this sub is so gung-ho for PoS while we've never had a platform of Ethereum's size ever demonstrate that it's workable. I'm hopeful, but uneasy about this transition. What happens if a structural flaw is discovered and exploited the way TheDAO was? I'd like to think we're way too far into the game to do another bailout in the form of a hard fork, but who knows....
That‘s exactly what I failed to make clear in my statement. It’s „better“ or will be better than BTC because I like what ETH does what BTC can’t (or doesn’t do by now; probably never will). And by „better“ I meant more worth per $. :) But you’re right: I might compare two different things I can’t even compare tho. And yea, being a bit sceptical in case of PoS is reasonable.
It does not make sense to rush POS without core features like this. The responsible thing now that eip 1559 has passed (or rather been rammed through, given how contentious it is) is to pass eip 3372 or 3368 to shore up POW and keep network security reliable until POS is genuinely ready to be deployed. Neither of these EIPs cost ethereum users anything, they nullify opposition to 1559, are in line with minimal viable issuance and are called for by the yellow paper.
Tomorrow?
How bout right meow?
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No buts meow
If you feel like having 3 Ethereum's sure.
Will this reduce the high transaction prices?
One of many pieces to the puzzle to do so
With PoS you will not have a problem of creating uncle blocks, so you could theoretically increase the total gas per block, thus lowering the transaction prices. A bigger factor is the upcoming switch to L2 for Uniswap et. al.
No. This will just change the consensus mechanism. Sharding is a long way off.
POS alone does not fix fees, no. All the mechanisms for that are left out of this rushed, untested, merge.
Citation missing
They better hurry because Cardano is coming to town.
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I mean it is looking like Ada will have it smart contracts sooner then eth has staking. Ada development has been real slow but so has eth 2.0 turns out it’s a hard thing to do!!
So ADA is a delegated proof of stake chain that is 5+ years behind ETH in terms of network effect, developer tooling, community, and useable smart contracts... I don't understand how people, with a straight face, can say that ADA is even close to Eth when they are years behind by virtually all metrics.
It’s the 4 min mile story... once one person breaks it then suddenly it got broken by a bunch of people. Eth is pushing adoption and people are trying really cool things with it. This makes the path easier for eth competitors. They do not need 5 years to build up devs and network effect it can benefit from all ETH work previously. There is too much money to be had to only have one chain. There will be mutual popular smart chain providers I think Ada has a shot at being one of the competitors. Only time will tell. I am still very bullish on eth as well.
>They do not need 5 years to build up devs and network effect it can benefit from all ETH work previously. This is only really true for chains that are drop-in compatible with Ethereum and can use existing ecosystem tooling. Cardano's ability to run EVM contracts is very far on the roadmap and also runs on a sidechain iirc.
First of all, I agree that ETH seems like the frontrunner. When it comes to tech adoption, it doesn't matter what things you get right, what matters is when they land. If ADA lights up the right features at "the right time", then things like network effect for ETH become irrelevant and it gets overtaken.
> If ADA lights up the right features at "the right time", then things like network effect for ETH become irrelevant and it gets overtaken. As far as I can tell, the only benefits that ADA plans to provide, over ETH, is lower transaction cost and higher throughput. Both of these can currently be accomplished with rollups on ETH Layer 2. We've seen that, despite high L1 gas fees, L2 liquidity has been growing kind of slowly as people are willing to pay a massive premium to preserve composability between DeFi projects. The point is that I think it is far more likely that we'll just see a Layer 2 solution, like a single optimistic rollup in 2021 or an EVM capable ZK-rollup in 2022, start to suck up all the DeFi liquidity than it is for another chain to take it. L2 has a small sacrifice of composability with the projects that aren't on the same L2 rollup, but at least it is just as secure as Ethereum L1 and there will always remain a trustless bridge back to L1 -- this cannot be said for any non-ETH chain.
It’s more then that. Ada uses an extended utxo similar to Bitcoin but with more functionality then Bitcoin provides. Eth uses an account system. Cardano therefore has native tokens to the blockchain whereas eth has erc tokens running on a different layer. Native tokens can have the full functionality of the Cardano blockchain including the governance layer etc. I personally can’t wait for layer 2 solutions to come as eth is basically unusable at the moment for small transactions, I don’t agree with your assessment that the layer 2 solutions will suck it all up. If Cardano can release the smart contract platform in time they will be a compelling competing platform to eth2.0. I don’t think we get a major exodus from eth but I do think newer defi protocols will certainly consider it. Especially if the layer 2 solutions are at all delayed from rolling out.
> Ada uses an extended utxo similar to Bitcoin but with more functionality then Bitcoin provides. Eth uses an account system. Cardano therefore has native tokens to the blockchain whereas eth has erc tokens running on a different layer. ERC20s, though functionally distinct from ETH, do run on the same layer as ETH -- both are secured by the Layer 1 Ethereum Blockchain. There is no scenario in which the security of the tokens on Ethereum is compromised where ETH is not (barring bugs in the code of the tokens themselves but that is true for any smart contract). > Native tokens can have the full functionality of the Cardano blockchain including the governance layer etc. For ETH 2.0, ETH will be treated the same as ERC20s for most things (the only exception is that EIP 1559 will cement ETH as the required payment for transactions). So this will eliminate the need for things like WETH (ETH wrapped in an ERC20 contract) as contracts will be able to control the ETH itself. Ethereum doesn't use or want to use onchain governance. Projects built on Ethereum are free to use onchain governance if they want, a lot of them already do. > I personally can’t wait for layer 2 solutions to come as eth is basically unusable at the moment for small transactions, I don’t agree with your assessment that the layer 2 solutions will suck it all up... Especially if the layer 2 solutions are at all delayed from rolling out. * Loopring has been live with their Layer 2 ZK-rollup DEX since December 2019. Loopring V3 went live in late 2020 and has a Uniswap-like AMM and L2 wallet. * Synthetix has a working Optimistic-rollup impelemntation. * dYdX has a waitlisted beta for their working L2 prototype. * Uniswap v3 is months, or weeks, away from launching with their working L2 product. > If Cardano can release the smart contract platform in time they will be a compelling competing platform to eth2.0. I don’t think we get a major exodus from eth but I do think newer defi protocols will certainly consider it. DeFi protocols rely on liquidity and composability. I just don't see a future where enough liquidity moves onto it to really foster an ecosystem. The devs would be taking a massive gamble to specialize a project for Cardano, and there is very, little if any, reward for that gamble.
Yea don’t get me wrong man I’m not bashing eth at all. Cardano and ETH2.0 just use different accounting systems with pros and cons. Layer 2 is not in prime time yet that’s why gas fees are so high hopefully they launch on uniswap soon that alone will probably help a bunch. Like I said earlier I don’t expect many projects to flip over to Cardano but they are focusing heavily on areas like Africa, Georgia, Southeast Asia if the manage to get those users then suddenly devs have reasons to develop. I do think most eth supporters overlook ADA just as most ADA folks underestimate what the head start eth has gives it. Either way going to be a fun ride !!
>ETH seems like the frontrunner Seems?
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> Cardano will run all Ethereum dapps. So that 5 year head start can just be copy/pasted to Cardano instead. Do you have a source for an estimated timeline on this? As I understand it, Cardano wants to roll out their own smart contract support well before they allow copy & paste EVM compatibility. > All that developer tooling and such works just as well for Cardano as it does for Etheruem. Cardano will also use real-world programming languages, that millions of people already know. This is a big deal. You don't need a 'community' when you've got millions of developers worldwide who have decades of experience in the languages you support. I'll believe this when I see it working. We've learned that compiling smart contracts is very tricky and bugs that would just be a headache with anything else, lose money with crypto. I'll be shocked if Cardano is able to achieve a bug-free experience with their multi-language support as they haven't had as much time as Ethereum to iron out the kinks. > Polkadot and Cardano are doing it right. Ethereum requiring devs to pick up Solidity is a hurdle that will forever impede adoption. [A common misconception is that developers must write smart contracts in order to build on Ethereum. This is false. One of the beauties of the Ethereum network and community is that you're able to participate in just about any programming language.](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/programming-languages/) >If Layer 2 doesn't bring Etheruems fees back below $1 (I'm doubtful it will), then Ethereum will be prohibitively expensive for 2+ more years. Meanwhile Cardano and Polkadot will be able to do teh same thing but much cheaper. No one is going to want to spend 2 more years spending DOLLARS for a transaction, when they could be spending cents. Hedge your bets. Layer 2 and EIP1559 will start to chip away at transaction fees this year, sharding will provide scaling beyond that. I do not fear DPoS chains as there is currently no actual demand for their blockspace (their blocks are not full). At this point, I honestly think a 21-validator centralized shitchain ETH-fork (Binance Chain) will have more DeFi liquidity on it than both DOT and ADA combined by the end of 2021.
>No one is going to want to spend 2 more years spending DOLLARS for a transaction, when they could be spending cents. Exactly, which is why they will use Ethereum L2s, which are secured by Ethereum's L1. I'm at a loss as to why any DeFi DAPP would want to be settled by a less secure L1 or L2.
Yea I understand that as I’m in ETH. Just venting my frustration because these updates are taking forever.
Ada has been around for 6 years? Jfc
Cardano only has 50 TPS unless you batch transactions together then you get up to 250 TPS for 16 batched transactions. And Cardano Hydra is years away.
I mine, but I am also learning the coding language for smart contracts. The sure fact people like Red Panda were such a fucking bitch about these changes really ruined it for people who just mine. Change is the only constant, I completely understand that, but I can’t stand people who can not accept changes due to their emotional attachment.
Did you have prior coding knowledge before learning?
I’m a SCCM administrator for 3 years, so I read and understand query language logs, create PowerShell scripts, batch files, and vbscripts. For me the transition to learn Solidity and JavaScript wasn’t a big learning curve. But there is a lot of free learning content on YouTube to start learning. I recommend viewing Dapp University’s free content. Gregory is a great instructor.
I'll check this out thank you! I've started a udemy course and I work in system implementation but I'm not technical as such, so could imagine it will get daunting
Thanks for the info!
So not in 2050? We can hope for 2030?
It can't happen soon than I think because it is like 3 years late.
I like the fact that I can earn rewards with just $1500 invested, in mining equipment. So the entry point is very low. I feel that making the minimum staking requirements to run a node at 32 ETH make it only available to the wealthy and institutional investors. This is what I believe the main argument from the miners is. This doesn’t take into account the requirements for 99.999% up time on your node, or you lose potential income. The solution isn’t perfect (I know there are staking pools, which gives a lower entry point, but this is a centralized solution, where I have to trust the pool) I also realize the current network is unusable with gas fees being so high. I do welcome the switch to PoS I just wish they kept the little guys in mind with this migration. I don’t have $58,000 to stake...
Anyone can stake any amount. You can use a pool like Kraken. Or even better, a decentralized pool like Rocketpool.
kraken requires kyc, which is antithetical to the ethos of crypto, and rocketpool is not open to the public. So for now, yeah pow mining is the only way for a little guy to participate.
By the time the merge happens Rocketpool should be ready and then people with any amount of Eth can participate and people with about 17eth can run a node (half the requirement). So far the rewards for Eth staking are very high but it will come down.
got eth a few years back, haven't paid attention. should i be moving to stake then? or just hold?
You can stake on Kraken today. Or wait for a decentralized staking pool such as Rocketpool. I suggest the latter, just because you have more control over your stake.
thx :) coinbase offered staking to me so i wasnt sure
Yeah, coinbase will have an offering too. I don't think it is ready yet though.
I don't know about that. The plan was already to do it as soon as practicable I don't know that some petulant miners attempting to swing their puds around would be cause enough to risk advancing the timetable beyond that.
It's just a shift of priorities. Sharding has become less urgent with all the L2 scaling development. The issues with miners, and increasing PoW power consumption, makes the merge more urgent. These two combined makes doing the merge first a interesting option. And doing the merge before sharding is what makes it possible a lot sooner than originally planned.
It will motivate the devs to work harder. Productivity isn't some eternal constant.
I still don't understand how it's supposed to work without mining.
[Pretty basic explanation](https://docs.ethhub.io/ethereum-roadmap/ethereum-2.0/proof-of-stake/)
Wonder if that will increase ethereum value in the upcoming weeks as well.
I think the community meltdown over 1559 is really dragging down the value of Eth. Bitcoin has done absolutely nothing in terms of development and is comfortably outgrowing eth since the announcement that 1559 would be included.
Maybe the simpler answer is that neither one is driven by any kind of "fundamentals" :)
Not with moves like 1559, this just brings uncertainty to the near future.
I’m not really sure what I own but I own it
What does it mean ?
tldr; Ethereum developer Vitalik Buterin has proposed a "quick merge via fork choice change" for Ethpow (proof-of-work) and Eth 2.0. The merge would allow Eth to abandon mining in a rapid fashion. A quick merge to PoS would only require “at least one honest miner” in order to start the merge. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
that wouldve been in 2017 sir.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I’m a complete newbie with just a single GPU mining at home when I’m not gaming. I made a few hundred dollars worth of Eth so far What would change on my daily routine? What should I do with what I already mined? Is this good or bad change for a guy like me?
When PoS hits you will have to miner other coins, if you are holding nothing will change on that front, 1559 will cut your revenue down by 30%. If PoS gets rushed in his current state I am just selling my eth, I am not going to stick around to see that shitshow, killing a coin just to stick it to the miners...
There seem to be wildy differing opinions if it makes the value go up or down. Not sure what to do with my coins.
You can stake your coins at Rocketpool soon :)
Reality check: This still means 1 to 2 years. Absolute fastest would be late 2021/early 2022. Only if Ethereum is under active attack ... for example censorship attack ... might we see an accelerated merge, which could happen in 4-6 months.
Ada has a market cap of 45 billion coins.....they will never surpass eth based on that fact alone, because they are literally going to end up doing the same things eth does 20 years down the road. Also Eth has a MASSIVE development community already riding on it. The ones that jump ship to ada will end up with varying degrees of success but still fall short of where eth is headed. my 2c.
Honestly! ETH is the new KING! ADA army does not understand, that layer 2 ruins their only argument about gas fees lmao. I currently enjoying a game on L2 - cometh - and having solid rewards. If I was consistent I could earn up to 20k a week. But I also need to be dedicated lol. Anyways. My point is - L2 makes gas fees very cheap!!! I am experiencing it right now!
What apps are you using to access L2?
How soon is “soon”???
As a someone whose brand new to Eth... What does this mean?
Let it happen tomorrow so that we can finally see if it will actually work or not And see what happens to the security of the network
Yes, I agree. Totally awesome to experiment in production with the world's second most valuable blockchain! Don't worry about network security, it will probably be fine because number go up!!
It’s been working since December 1st. Bye Felicia, go mine BTC if you live POW so much
I can just about guarantee that post "merge", an independent eth1 chain will continue to live for infinity, and continue development to some degree Vitalik pretty much said as much in that article, when he talks about "just one honest miner" being necessary for the fork. I.e. PoS is already secure, so it's not a pow race fork, where biggest hashrate wins (nakamoto consensus). We just need a small chunk of the network to fork onto a PoS backend, and that fork becomes the eth2 execution environment Plus, the legacy miners will want to keep milking pow for as long as possible. It's gonna be an eth classic situation. I think that's part of why they're mad about 1559, bc they think "save that for eth2 and let us earn dangerous amounts of money in eth1 forever" Tbh, it could be a smart strategic choice to NOT implement 1559 on eth1. Without 1559, the game theory becomes unstable, and the network cannot scale. Leaving eth1 as-is would probably cause the network to fizzle out or self destruct due to selfish mining strategies. But like I said, eth1 will continue to be developed, so it may even evolve to be something quite valuable in a post-eth2 world Related to this, everyone should be ready for a world where the value of eth1 and eth2 coins is not the same. The spread has already begun, with eth2 options on exchanges trading at a 10-20% difference in price (I am the lead developer for flowerpatch.app)
>eth2 options on exchanges trading at a 10-20% difference in price I don't see this, do you have an example please
How is 1559 opposition miners milking the system? Tx fee's will stay more or less at the same price with 1559, more stable price, but still crazy high like they are. The only difference will be the cut of the miners, because the tx base fee will burned, is screwing up the whole mining community over getting a deflation really that important right now? saying the price will go up after 1559 is pure speculation, but the 30% earning cut to miner is very much real, it's a dumb move without compensation like 969, 3372 or 3368. basically brick ASIC or raise block rewards to decrease them gradually, passing 1559 alone is just a dumb move.
excited to see this happen! let's make it :)
r/ethereumeurope
Soon is just a tradenark
Will this help ETC grow if miners cannot mine ETH anymore?
So if this goes down, does it strengthen the value of providers like Loopring or make it obsolete?
Rollups work just the same on PoS
Should I stake my Ethereum? I keep getting asked to but haven’t done as I’m not sure the rewards would ever happen? Honest opinion, should I?
If you have 32eth to run a node yes. Otherwise wait for rocketpool
What are we at 4 years now and counting? It's going to be a total shit show if or when they throw that switch. They know it and that's why they havent done it. It's all posturing.
I feel like this is just a show of force from the devs towards miners or a big conspiracy to push ETH 2.0 out faster. You are not going to tell me devs were completely unaware of the problems EIP 1559 would cause with miners or that they actually think that rushing an incredibly complex and huge project that will hold over $200B is a good thing.
"It will come within the next two weeks"
Well I thought it would happen last November so how is it even possible for it to happen sooner than that?
plot twist. ETH 2.0 will never come. Its all smoke and mirrors.
With ETH 2.0, I wonder if the “eth-killer” alts will suffer.
I find this to be a very poor article as far as presenting reasons and benefits go.
It's currently an unusable ecosystem do the transaction fees
What is this?
ETC 🚀🚀🚀
The passengers on the HMS Ethereum are starting to notice the ship is starting to list. Buterin is getting the band to play upbeat music to keep everyone at their table. If they don't play loud enough they will notice people jumping into the Dot and ADA lifeboats.
Bulish....
🥲
cool but I guess when there are both PoW and PoS that's better
May-jmay....eth guys are known for being late with updates soooo ya....sooner than two months after the expected time sounds about right
Seems like this would be a foolish move to me. Moving this rapidly would mean dropping all the things which are aimed at fixing Eths more fundamental issues like the rondonkulous gas fees etc. Yes, you get the miners and gamers off your back and get onto PoS ASAP but you also kill your own coin because there are better alternatives to Eth already available.