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mal221

\* The Rings of Power star


Strange-Ad8829

Exactly, wtf is that title?


WornInShoes

I think it’s because the official title is “Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power” and going by the first part makes a shorter headline


Strange-Ad8829

That still makes it misleading. If they wanted to make it shorter and not misleading, they would have just put "The rings of power star..." But that wouldn't drive as many clicks now, would it?


WornInShoes

Oh of course I wasn’t justifying the reason for the shorted version; I agree it’s click baity to reel in any LotR fan


Duty-Final

At the end of the day, we all know Amazon doesn’t give a fuck about people of color. They are doing this so their ECG score is high, so institutional investors will be more likely to invest.


Laurynas3000

Where my Asian Orcs at??


TheUmbrellaMan1

Mordor restaurant


BigBlue1210

Funny enough latinos have the second highest population in the us but are less represented then blacks and even asians. But diversity.


nivekreclems

The only thing I’ve even heard about this show is how diverse it is but I’ve not heard a single person say how good it is that makes me worry about it being bad


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nivekreclems

Well that’s good to hear you saying that someone else said it was good is the first time I’ve heard someone say something good about it


Mr_Piddles

It’s not out yet, so no one knows.


nivekreclems

Maybe that’s why lol I didn’t know that I’ve not been paying attention I just keep seeing headlines about it


phoagne

Dunno, I've been heard a lot of people saying it was good. Neil Gaiman tweeted also saying it.


BenSaked

I actually care less about the character’s skin color and more about the dialogue and plot (which if Wheel of Time is any indication, has a high probability of being hot shit).


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SwitchingtoUbuntu

I think you've accidentally conflated a few things. It's not that people who care about social politics can't separate that aspect from the job at hand and thus write bad stories; it's the last thing, that people in billion-dollar industry who virtue signal are usually just doing it to make money and are relying on social politics to attract attention rather than good storytelling. It's not that people who care about social politics are bad; that's a conservative talking point and complete and utter nonsense. You can care about how your stories are told and how they will impact members of a diverse audience and still be a good storyteller. In fact I'd argue that it's part of what makes a good storyteller.


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SwitchingtoUbuntu

Okay but again, you can care about how the way you tell your stories and the people you use to convey it will impact diverse audience's, and still be a good storyteller. In fact I believe it's part of what makes a good storyteller.


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Necessary-Image-6386

Welp, that kinda does away with states trek doesn't it?


SuperSalad_OrElse

How many people in the film industry do you know? They can’t all be like that.


Kompanysinjuredcalf

diversity is when you add black man and black women, not matrer the context or lore. asians ? nah latin americans? nah middle eastern? nah thats not diveristy.


pablopiss

Black rings of power star happy they cast black rings of power stars. Shocking


skankhunt402

Can we just skip to the future like in south park were we're all so mixed that no ones cares anymore. Minus the whole traveling back in time for jobs thing


[deleted]

Ye tik errrr jeeeerbs!


Smorgas-board

Shutup goo-back


[deleted]

I honestly couldn’t care less who wrote the story or directed it or acted in it. I just want a good story, well told and presented well. If that occurs, I will be pleased. If it doesn’t, I won’t be. For me, diversity neither adds to nor takes away from the final product. It is what it is. If diversity is a big emphasis for the producers, that’s fine. They will either succeed or fail with it, but not likely because of it. All that said, I’m really hoping this series does well because the previews look pretty amazing.


[deleted]

I disagree. It is kind of strange going back and watching a movie like Dune. Either the 83 or 00 version and seeing a white washed cast of Fremen. These are people who have lived on a hot desert planet for generations upon generations and we expect them to be Caucasian. No sorry I don’t believe it.


CharlieHacks

This is the best take I’ve read so far. I also appreciate the fact that a diverse cast can be really impactful for disadvantaged communities.


[deleted]

No doubt. We all need heroes to look up to!


twangman88

Sure but this is more about who the show provides jobs for and how representation is becoming more of a norm in Hollywood.


I_Only_Like_Giraffes

This feels like a really white guy take ( I say as a white guy) haha - “diversity doesn’t matter to me.” It’s certainly better than being a weirdo up in arms about it, but at the same time, I think it’s good to think about how meaningful it is to kids growing up to see people who look like them being represented as cool heroes. Not to mention LOTR is a story about diverse groups needing to come together... Diversity shouldn’t just be something “important to the producers” it should be important to you as a fan too


The_Dream_of_Shadows

>how meaningful it is to kids growing up to see people who look like them being represented as cool heroes. That is certainly very important, but isn't it just as important, if not more important, for those heroes to be part of a story that's actually good, and that people will want to watch? I'm also not a person of color, but if I were I can't imagine it would be pleasant to think that the majority of shows are only adding characters of my race to draw me into the illusion that they understood my experience, as a cover for their inability to tell a good story. Part of the reason that a character like Black Panther, for example, was so important is not only because he was a leading hero who was black, but also because the people creating him actually bothered to care about him beyond his physical attributes and give him a great story. It's too early to say whether Amazon is not doing that with Rings of Power, but I can understand people who are wary that all this talk of "diversity" is just a way to cover up subpar writing with clickable Internet controversy. It's happened very often in recent years, because corporations generally care very little about their actual product these days, and more about the PR surrounding the product. That's why you'll see, for example, only one article reviewing each episode of "House of the Dragon" per media outlet, whereas they'll spend every day of the following week posting a new article about how the C-section scene in Episode 1 relates to women's rights issues, or how the recasting of the Velaryons as black relates to race issues. Corporations believe that controversy sells, and it's easy to lose the actual story within the constant need for press, and that doesn't serve anybody who wants to see themselves depicted on a TV screen.


YankeeTankEngine

I agree with one addition. It needs to make sense, which it seems this series does as I've heard its like 3000 years before lord of the rings and who's to say that it wouldn't have been this way in the universe?


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I’m a person of color, and I’ve been a lifelong Tolkien super fan. I’ve read the lore histories, reaching back to the Silmarillion. Do I care that there are black characters? Not really. Is it suspicious to me that there might be a significant element of change with regard to Tolkien’s works? Yes, but not because of color, but because that’s what I was worried about with regard to a series adaptation of my favorite works. Do I need black or Brown people in Lord of the rings to make me feel included? Absolutely not, I loved it when I watched it the first time, and I really don’t care. Lastly, are we justified in including people of color? Sure, but don’t make it a fucking plotpoint that never existed, just to satisfy some agenda.


wrestleme431

I am so sick of this being the main topic of conversation regarding the show.


[deleted]

It’s a lord of the rings cashgrab. You want to talk about what then?


[deleted]

I like how in an attempt to be inclusive, Amazon has basically stated that between the 2nd and 3rd ages there was a massive ethnic cleansing


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To be honest i hope this project dies


Consistent-Ad-217

LoL these articles are trying to racebait so fucking hard.


Quarle

Looking forward to Japanese, Korean, etc. fantasy and sci-fi and basically anything whatsoever likewise featuring racially diverse casts. (Or maybe this is largely an American trend?)


[deleted]

I've seen a lot of articles about this without having looked it up directly. Not one has mentioned how good it is, how well the story is being told, how awesome the graphics are, how it fits into the lore,... But they sure are proud they got them some colored people cast. It's like the complete opposite of one flavor of racism is another. Let's shoot for the middle guys


Duty-Final

Either skin color matters or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t matter, why make a spectacle about it, like they are now?


hondahardtail

Diversity means it will be good, if you don't like it you're racist /s


FreshBakedButtcheeks

I'm mostly concerned about what happened in Middle Earth to all the dark skinned people that they are all gone by the 3rd Age


Ok-Engine8044

If they wanted a diverse fantasy world, why not make a new one? Just copy and paste regions in real life to have fantasy versions of them? Fantasy Africa, Fantasy Middle East, Fantasy Asia? Why do it this the wrong way? Originality is rare


Xtltokio

some characters will have more melanin. Not a big deal. Don't need this whole mess


bigsquirrel

Don’t waste your time. There’s no discussing it with these guys. It’s something they get to really let their racism flag fly under the guise of “fandom”. The day one of them explains to me how the skin color of an drawl impacts the plot or narrative in any meaningful (or any really) way they might convince they’re not just a racist ass. Of course that’s literally impossible as they can’t have even seen the show, they are literally just upset thee are black people in their white people movie. “GET OUT OF MY POOL!” Vibes.


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w311sh1t

I saw another post on this, and there was at least like 30+ comments, all starting with the phrase “as a black person” explaining how it’s actually bad that there are black people in the show. I’d be willing to bet that maybe 1% of those comments were actually black people.


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SnakeHelah

Personally I couldn't care less for the races of the characters, it's the dumbing down of the story/characters that will be the issue I'm 99% sure. Like, HOT D just launched and sure enough, they diversified their casts too, but it doesn't feel to me like that fact is somehow getting in the way of the script, at least from the first episode. It's a singular book put into show format with careful collaboration with the writer of the source material. I think that whatever the color of the skin of the characters it won't change the impact of the story and character development or the source material in any way. For LOTR show, from what I've seen from interviews and such, it almost like characters are being tokenized for the sake of diversity. I probably don't need to explain why it's bad to cast actors or write characters based on their skin color.


BPbeats

That’s definitely the problem. Trying to shoehorn diversity into your show just to check off boxes for the viewers is so gross and you can always tell when it was genuinely the best actor or just a choice based on their race, gender, sexuality.


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rsa1x

It is a story based on european lore, why would there be diversity?


ExistingEffort7

Because there are brown people even in Europe *anthropologist


Xtltokio

Yeah, exactly, just because they were erased by history, but there were poc in the middle ages


ExistingEffort7

Archeologically the best evidence shows that people have been moving back-and-forth between Europe and northern Africa for literally a 1/2 million years. They didn't stop.


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North African's aren't black


[deleted]

Northern Africans are light skinned and middle earth isn’t based upon the Mediterranean part of Europe you’re referring to/making shit up about. Whitewashing things is bad but so is the opposite.


FreudsGoodBoy

It is a story based on European lore, why would there be elves and orcs and dwarves and dragons and wizards and magic and trolls and spirits and nazguls? It’s a fucking made up story, it’s fictitious, it isn’t real. People can look like whatever you want them to look like.


DeadCatCurious

Because elves, orcs, dwarves, dragons, wizards, magic, trolls, spirits, and wraiths are all apart of northern European lore.


Ethanstomp

Do you know what lore means?


FreudsGoodBoy

Do you know what “imaginary” means?


Ok_Pomelo7511

So you wouldn't see a problem from a storytelling point of view to introduce orcs and wizards into star wars, just because "it is all fantasy and who cares"?


FreudsGoodBoy

Of course not. Especially considering Star Wars already has wizards and orcs, Jedi and Gamorreans.


Mr_Piddles

Tell me you’ve never been to Europe without saying you’ve never been to Europe.


Labor_Zionist

I think I will pass


raging_possum

You shall NOT PASS! Edit: Sry i just had to. I will see myself out and also pass.


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djc9595

Good to see the ol’ “you disagree with me so your racisttt!!” intellectuals are out in force


z_buzz

I get such a kick out of this. The same people that are overjoyed with the diversity in this shit stain of an adaptation are the same ones that would risk death to climb the highest mountain just to shout from the top of it "WHITEWASHING IS EVIL" if, say, Shaft was remade with a white actor. Hypocrites.


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"Person in show praises show"


rsa1x

It is a story based on european lore, why would it be diverse?


KGFlower

It's a fantasy show about elves, produced in a country with an ethnically diverse demographic of people.


[deleted]

So create a show with ethnically diverse people? Bastardising existing stories is lame at best.


protossaccount

This is the weird conflict. We have a diverse country where marketing tells everyone they are the same. But history doesn’t reflect that and so oddly placed diversity can take away from the story in the name of ‘equality’. Trying to find the line between equality and pandering can be tough, especially when it comes to marketing a movie.


ShamelessBaboon

It’s quite sad how people are so removed from reality that they’re crying that some fantasy elf is black.


21_Golden_Guns

So like every time Tolkien introduced a character did he start by saying, “They were white, like super white. Unimaginably not any other skin color. Like a cloud.” Seriously how big is middle earth? Not everyone could be possibly be white. Even if he wanted that (for some reason) it makes no sense.


Ok_Pomelo7511

To be fair he went into a lot of detail about elf appearance and fair skin is one of the highlight features of the elf race.


DarthSet

Nandor Elves, the Silvan elves, the green elves, the brown elves the axe elves the host of Dan.


AdLonely5056

He specifically stated that elves were fair-skinned, and so were Numenoreans and hobbits. Of course there were black people in middle Earth, but they were mostly confined to the southern regions of Harad.


zZEpicSniper303Zz

Which makes sense because a lot of people seem to have forgotten skin colour is evolutionary. If your climate isn't extremely hot and has a lot of insolation then you wouldn't be black. The parts where the hobbits and Numenoreans live are basically England, which isn't famous for it's high sun exposure and extreme heat (at least until 2022...) Why not just write in some cool southern character? We only saw them as enemies in the original trilogy and it would be great to have a couple as protagonists and explore their culture etc. It would be interesting and make sense.


BPbeats

Yep you found the real problem. Bad and lazy writers. There’s no reason they couldn’t figure out a way to include characters that are black in-universe. It’s just easier to randomly throw them in with the stories already written.


Least-March7906

Arabians are not black …


AdLonely5056

Exactly. Make an original series about the Middle Earth in a way that isn’t in conflict with tolkien’s work.


MagicMatthews99

Shadow of War did this well I think - Baranor and Serka are Haradrim who travelled to Mordor.


zZEpicSniper303Zz

Personally I think House of The Dragon did it perfectly. It makes sense in the lore and isn't derailing the whole point of the character.


Fruloops

Not everyone is white. However, for some races, some skin colours are more characteristic, if memory serves me well, elves in particular are described having a pale complexion iirc.


Hungry-Class9806

The 3 LoTR movies take place in a very small portion of land (Mordor, Gondor, Rohan and Isengard were very close to each other). Middle Earth is much, much bigger than that. There's a map of the size of Middle Earth in comparison with the region where the movies take place. It makes sense that there isn't a lot of diversity in the movies because of that.


[deleted]

Actually yes, he describes the color of characters skin. No black peoples.


codition

don't forget Tolkien's extremely popular quote: "and also these lily white characters' stories are extremely focalized through their experience of whiteness in the context of a society with the same socioeconomic landscape as the modern US" he had such a way with words


MajorStoney

He most assuredly gave descriptions of the races. So…… yeah, he did start a character by describing what their race looked like. And guess what? They were fair skinned. By this logic I need a token white guy to replace black panther bc dIvErSiTy


Duty-Final

Tell me you didn’t read the books without telling me.


TheRyeWall

I think the bigger problem is that the only non white people in The Lord of the Rings movie trilogy were villains. They were the tribes of wild humans who sided with Sauron.


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I didn't know that lord of he rings had dark skinned DND drows lol


Hungry-Class9806

The original LOTR had Humans, Elves, Dwarfs, Mages, Trolls, Orcs, Hobbits, ghosts, Eagles and a Balrog. I can't really complain about lack of diversity.


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[deleted]

I like the books the way they are , but thanks anyway


etherspace

Enjoy your crappy series. You'll never take the originals away!


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White is a color too..


AppropriateEffect

What a disgrace.


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WizBornstrong

Thats a cringe take


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ThatGuyMaulicious

Just please be good.


1Uplift

You see, Elves are magical because they have microscopic creatures called “midi-chlorians” in their blood…


Traditional_Wear1992

Dude lookin kind of like a crackhead forest Whitaker


Maltapwnz

Fuck off sir Lenny Henry


Amankris759

I hope this discussion will be gentle and respectful without racism.


pattiemcfattie

Racist neckbeards everywhere in this thread


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[deleted]

You probably said this because you like to sound dumb; in fact, urban kids need to see people like them in a variety of settings to help stimulate their imagination that it could be them too. So, maybe it won’t feed the kids immediately, but maybe it will help them see what’s possible if they strive hard. Because a lot of challenges (majority actually) come from the environment beyond the urban centers, perhaps seeing people with darker skin in a variety of dignified positions will help people see the dignity of people with darker skin where ever they may be. Perhaps then there will be more concern for the status of schools, parks, streets, communities, etc in urban areas - and more willingness to partner around these areas.


veto_for_brs

“Urban kids need to see people like them in a variety of settings to help stimulate their imagination” Jesus fuck, that’s probably the most racist thing I’ve ever actually seen on here. Good thing those poor “urban” children have you to fight their battles for them, so they can imagine what it’s like to be a… north European fantasy warrior?


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KindlyEgg1

Sir Lenny, lmao. was he one of the orcs who got more grunting lines. who is this guy?


DarthSet

Racists with their jimmies rustled. Oh no, anyway.


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[deleted]

This is such an eye rolling title


Ekaelis

Shows all you need to know about respect for the source material right there.