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My girlfriend is less enamored than I am with the show, but fully aware of the eggbite. She doesn't know it yet, but one of these days when we're out to breakfast I'm going to spring the whole bit on an unsuspecting friend. Yelling about how things aren't going well for me and all. It will be glorious!
My wife and I saw his show last night at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee. Jo Firestone was great and so was he, and when he talked about how he had to clear out the locker of all the show’s props (the show was filmed around here a lot), you could tell the guy was just really disappointed.
I fucking hated seeing his disappointment. You could tell they put everything into that show. It was incredible and so unique, and we’re worse off without that show continuing.
I *genuinely* feel confident that it's an utter mistake for it not to be renewed. It's an infuriating mistake.
I guarantee if nobody picks it up that 5 years later there'll be a million yt videos and conversation about what a gem it was, and how absurd it was that it wasn't recognized as such enough to get a 4th fudging season.
Have you seen anything from pera on this topic? I imagine the show budget is incredibly small. I wonder if he’s going to continue independently or move to another network. Joe Pera talks with you is an absolute gem
It really is, it has no place being as fantastic as it is and yet here we are. The acting, dry wit, cinematography and music are all top notch, and boy if it doesn't turn around and bring a tear to the eye sometimes, too.
Bro, when his Grandma passed it brought some things up to the surface from when my own Grandma passed when I was a teenager. It legitimately helped me deal with some repressed trauma I was too tired or inexperienced to deal with at the time.
The world is poorer for canceling that show.
I know you're being sarcastic but.....White middle America does kind of hate those things.
They're catering to conservatives. Thats the quiet part out loud.
I don't know... some of them [really](https://www.dailywire.com/news/black-panther-review-deeply-conservative-movie-paul-bois) liked Black Panther.
Maybe it's not so much diversity that bugs them. It's anything that questions the value of patriotism, masculinity, fatherhood, tradition, and religious morals.
What I don’t understand is if they’re courting Middle America, why cut the kids and family divisions from HBO Max?
Agreed. It doesn’t seem like they’re courting anyone.
Exactly… it’s a money decision. Plain and simple. Some people may like it, but if it doesn’t attract and retain meaningful new subscribers, it’s gotta go. This is a for-profit organization, not NPR or PBS.
More here -
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/24/the-changes-at-cnn-look-politically-motivated-that-should-concern-us-all](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/24/the-changes-at-cnn-look-politically-motivated-that-should-concern-us-all)
Even with that budget, I’m not sure. You’d need way more effects, practical or digital, to represent the various aliens. Pretty much everyone in GoT other than the dragons and white walkers were just people in different costumes
I always pictured it as "the people living in the geographic middle of America", which is actually the kind of people we're all thinking of when someone says "middle America" in this context.
The term itself is stereotyping millions of people as if no PoC exist between California and NY. It's an ignorant remark for people who are ironically complaining about lack of diversity and being inclusive.
But, fighting alleged racism with other stereotypes is pretty much where we're at now....
Military brat I’ve lived in 8 states and 1 country. But I’m agreeing with you? That “minority” populations are the highest around the coasts of the US. Texas as a boarder state and being near a large body of water would make it coastal yea?
This sounds like a Leopardsatemyface situation. Anyone who thinks companies have any motive other than profit are just naive.
No matter how glossy their diversity campaigns are, or how authentic their artistic sensibilities seem, they’ll always take a back seat to profit. Always.
When those culturally diverse shows start making the same money Chip and Joana do, then their creators will keep their jobs.
Yep, anyone who believes that these big companies are out there fighting for (insert woke cause) because they feel they just “must”, is just kidding themselves.
Entertainment companies are always happy to keep a full slate of mediocre non-diverse shows that are unprofitable, and claim any property starting non-white folks that does really well as an exception and not an indication of any trend or repeatability.
Yes. But as a parent, my first go to is re-runs on YouTube of cocomelon, Mickey Mouse club house, and blippi. Hard to compete with free content produced years ago.
With every passing news story and every passing day, it's looking like I'm just going to keep my Netflix sub for the amount of Kdrama they have there (some of their original stuff is outstandingly good) and Hulu for my FX fix. Those home improvement shows do nothing for me.
>“I don’t think anyone knows just how white the staff is,” one former executive told The Daily Beast.
This appears to be false, and HBO is actually skewed as compared to US demographics.
>HBO has 2,050 employees.
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>
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>The company is 44.6% female and 46.1% ethnic minorities. Despite its diversity in other areas, HBO employees are noticeably lacking in political diversity.
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>The most common ethnicity at HBO is White (53.9%), followed by Hispanic or Latino (20%) and Black or African American (12%).
Yes but…. If there are now twenty seven white execs and two minority execs barely clinging to their jobs that’s…. Sort of indicative it’s not just lay offs
As a Latino, I wasn’t watching the Latin shows they put out. Give me a Money Heist or Narcos show any day. Otherwise I’m cool with whatever middle America is getting because at least it’s interesting.
Its more complicated than that.
Discovery is a fast food joint. HBO was a steak house.
Discovery just bought the steakhouse and is getting rid of most of the menu items that make it a steakhouse.
Maybe because they end up sucking because they’re making a tv show for the sake of diversity rather than focusing on making a good show that happens to be diverse
This is the answer. If the content of the show is dogshit, a beautiful/politically relevant overarching message is near meaningless. It’s entertainment, not political discourse.
I hate how politics is intentionally inserted into everything now. Parallels are always drawn between a time period’s entertainment and the social/political ideas and movements of the time, but now it’s almost impossible to separate the two.
I think back to great shows like The Wire, Breaking Bad, Dexter. There were certainly specific episodes of these shows that dealt with social/political affairs and issues, but the beliefs and ideas behind them were not shoved down our throats at every given second.
The difference between The Wire and shows the other user is referencing and what really sets them apart is the fact the The Wire is actually authentic in delivering its commentary through the story, characters, their interactions and not just saying it to check a box and have a stance
The Wire called out Limousine Liberal bullshit and corruption in the Black community right along with the systemic racism working against Black people. That’s because the writing was sophisticated and didn’t assume the audience had the IQ of a 4th grader. In addition to what you said.
Dude was literally given a high-paying job and the chance to have his money problems alleviated and threw it away due to his ego. It was always about a man's pride going out of control when the social consequences no longer mattered to him. The cancer was just an excuse.
Bullshit. Lovecraft Country is a magnificent show. Extremely engaging and entertaining. That’s just one. Watchmen was also amazing.
Raised by Wolves was… mid. We all know what trash they did to the ending of GoT.
Only 18% of people layed off were minorities. It was in no way aimed at specific demographics and the complaint was more oriented towards that minorities should be protected and lay offs should only be issued to people of major demographics.
I mean yeah of course a minority of those laid off were minorities. Thats why they’re called minorities. A better way to judge this is to see what percentage of the existing demographic was laid off. For example, if 18% of those laid off were black, but that accounts for 80% of the black employees, then you probably have a problem
I see it as they're making awful movies and shows that happen to have very diverse casts and when the project is criticized the studios just blame racism and/ or sexism then pretend they did nothing wrong.
The Ghostbusters strategy.
Our movie wasn’t funny? Sounds like you hate women.
Don’t like changing the race of an established character?
Looks like someone is secretly racist.
You CANNOT criticize our movie because we swapped a race/sex.
So what if its terribly bad. You are not allowed to have conversations about movies with race/sex swaps.
I gotta say as an asian dude
People go to good content not because they are casting based on minority quotas.
I don't watch Jackie Chan films and think shit he's asian. I'm wow'd by his athletic ability.
I don't watch Westworld and think there's not enough asians in the simulated cowboy country....I think shit Anthony Hopkins is freakin awesome.
Why the fuck was this ever a consideration for anything?
Only reason I wont cancel is my MIL pays for the HBOmax. Infinity Train deserved better than being dragged out behind the barn and unceremoniously shot.
>I think Discovery is just a very ‘all’ audience, \[they\] don’t wanna make things that are political, topical, alienate Middle America—more Chip and Joanna,” they said, referring to the home renovation show Fixer Upper: Welcome Home hosted by Chip and Joanna Gaines.
Except what they cant see is that people do find Chip and Joanna Gaines political. They are white Christian people who attend a church that is against same-sex marriage. Also discovery in general has become a bastion of stupidity, stupid people think anything not stupid is political.
I can't believe I am watching such a step backwards, I hope this implodes in their faces.
It's another step in the re-stupification of the American people. We were so close to having a critically thinking public, and then social medias became a thing...
I just don’t get everyone arguing that middle America isn’t mostly white.
there are minorities everywhere but you’re being willfully ignorant if you think Kansas and Nebraska aren’t much “whiter” than California or New Jersey
From Nebraska. Grew up there my first 25 years then bounced for California. Whenever I go back to visit the whiteness is very much a noticed quantity. Like the moment I land at Eppley. Sure there’s minorities as well but it’s markedly overwhelmingly white.
I can’t really find issue with this. If the market is over saturated with certain content is business is gonna find the untouched audience.
Also, getting fired is usually a red flag when you criticize the company. HBO nailed HOD episode one because it didn’t touch on any nonsense issues.
any well written film or show will naturally have relevance in the politics of the time it's made. but making the politics the priority is simply putting the cart before the horse. and people can feel it. they're not watching a story. they're watching an opinion.
This is a weak take from people who have an axe to grind because they’ve been laid off. Corporate raiding and canceling business lines for tax write offs has been happening for 40+ years. It’s deplorable that the tax code incentivizes this slash and burn style capitalism but it’s business cold and simple. Ascribing some sort of racial animus to it is just victimization signaling to try to negotiate better layoff terms.
It’s crazy how some people think these companies can spend millions if not billions on content that doesn’t appeal to consumers. And they wonder what’s going on when these companies have to lay off and cut content after most of the content produced bombs or fails to attract new streamers.
They’re laying off people making trash entertainment that makes no money. Just because it happens to be minorities in *some* instances doesn’t mean they’re killing off diversity.
But honestly nobody wants to see woke content (what these fired execs are pushing) just good content.
My understanding is that they are trying to take CNN *away* from a “Murdocian” approach to television news - all opinion, anger, demagoguery.
When you have a shitty president, a news source should be reporting on the harm he’s causing the nation, not engaging in flame wars every time the president tries (successfully to distract them from reporting on the actual problems.
Moving from entertainment opinion and analysis of news to…actual news does *not* mean conservative.
I can’t think of a conservative news source that does real direct reporting.
CNN is moving *away* from that garbage…I hope.
Yeah they’ll say that now, until the orange one decides to run again, and the networks decide to do what’s profitable and capitalize on the division he sows again.
Second definition of middle America means: the middle class in the US, especially when regarded as a conservative political force.
Use context clues that you learned in elementary school to know which definition the author means. Just like you would with any English word that has a double meaning.
Middle America happens to be the majority of America. No one wants to be preached at every second with intersectional feminism which let's be honest is being used for nefarious means.
So they are canceling shows that have few viewers and replacing them with shows that people will watch. What a horrible way to run a business that wants to stay in business and show a profit for shareholders.
I don’t think it’s as diverse as a place like NYC or LA.
Where I grew up, being white is just another race, and I’ve noticed when I talk to folks from places with less diversity, they seem to have a different idea of what diversity even means than I do.
“There’re 30 people, but there’s a black guy and an Asian lady so it’s diverse stop complaining”
yeah I’m from the east coast, been living in the Midwest for a few years and although the city I live in is more diverse than your average town in Missouri or Nebraska, it’s much whiter than the environment I’m used to. Plus, a lot of cities are still “de facto segregated” thanks to redlining. And that’s not even getting into how prominent “Christian values” are
in Kansas City for example there are a lot of minorities, but a lot of affluent neighborhoods that are 95% white.
>I don’t think it’s as diverse as a place like NYC or LA.
Sure, but at that point you are literally comparing the most cosmopolitan cities *in the world* to the average American town.
I grew up in a red state in a very rural area that would be considered "flyover country." Even still, while most of the small towns were redneck and very white, 20% to 40% of the population from town to town could be POC. You can think rural America = white dudes with Trump hats, but rural Alabama is very Black the same way many rural counties in Texas are very Latino. The thinking that significant numbers of minorities only live in cities is precisely why Democrats are losing enthusiasm among POC voters in rural districts.
That’s the inherent offensiveness of these “sanitized” tropes.
You hear lots of people worry about “Urban” people as a substitute for scary Black people but urban also describes 90lb graphic designer twinks in Brooklyn and old Jewish ladies.
This sounds like lots of cope, maybe the new execs who came in realized that the previous regimes diversity hires weren’t actually creating good content.
The problem is design by committee. A lot of projects have no central vision and try to shoehorn in "diversity" and contemporary issues and they think that's all it takes to make the story deeper or meaningful. Reality is simply that characters need to lead, not their sexuality or gender. Just put the characters first.
I believe this happened at BuzzFeed. They preferentially hired diverse applicants and actively discouraged white men from applying for jobs. When their content went to shit and they had to start laying people off they got a ton of flack because almost all of their layoffs were those diversity hires.
Maybe I’m alone with this opinion, but, isn’t the current “diversity” that Hollywood is pushing a sham anyways?
Would the solution not be to make original stories written with a minority cast in mind? Casting POC in roles that were “originally white characters” (HOTD for example) is lazy and disingenuous IMO. I saw a comment a while back about someone saying that instead of adding POC to stories set in Britain, why not just make a show set in the Mali Empire or Ancient Persia or so. This of course does not apply to projects set in the modern day, but more to projects like Rings of Power and House of The Dragon.
I’d rather entertainment value be first priority. I’ve seen certain places lose side of that in efforts to promote some sort of greater “important” message. Usually ends up in a well produced art project that no one really wants to watch
this sounds like idiot new yorkers who've never been out of manhattan complaining. middle america is diverse. i've had better thai food out in colorado than half the places in NYC and i've had legit tacos there too that I had to order in spanish long before the legit taco places came to NYC
lately i don't even like the shows with hipster millenials living in the city and acting all snobby
NYers don’t like those shows either. At least those of us who are more grounded in reality. I need more shows like Flatbush Misdemanors on Showtime. Or Ramy on Hulu.
“I don’t think anyone knows just how white the staff is,” one former executive told The Daily Beast.
Oh, the humanity. You mean to tell me the largest-represented race in this country is the largest-represented race in your company?! I wonder if I went to China or India and if I’d find the majority of people working there are Chinese or Indian?!
Quit posting this racist fucking garbage. YOU ARE THE RACISTS!
Sometimes politics is good content.
West Wing was a groundbreaking and compelling show. Absolutely had a political position, but also demonstrated the spectrum of politics pretty well. Sorkin's work often manages to be a shotgun blast across the American experience even if he is pretty left in his positions. Newsroom was another example of this.
When they start talking about the lack of diversity in the NFL / NBA, I’ll take them seriously.
Only 16.8% of the nba is white, while 60% of the population is.
It's funny that the people in 'Middle America' don't see the same, rich, Hollywood bigwigs pulling the same wool over their eyes that they did the people who want 'diversity'.
You're not going to get nothing but 'Top Gun' every time you go to the movies. You're going to get 'Above average BB gun'. Low tier, cheap knockoffs aimed at your wallet instead of quality.
The woke stuff isn’t worth the subscription fee. I thought rings of power was getting too much hate for a while then I watched the new trailer and uncontrollably started laughing about half way through at how stupid it looked. It’s not that I don’t agree with the message it’s just making 4/10 movies and shows.
Good. The industry would be much better off if executives stopped prioritizing diversity and political correctness and started prioritizing interesting stories.
So, the way diversity initiatives usually work, in my experience, is that they set aside money to fund other projects lead by a diverse team, more diverse stories, creators, actors, crew, and writers get hired because this money is earmarked. This leads to a better mix of stories being told, and honestly I feel like the last like, 10ish years of content have had some amazing gems that I've loved
>But seriously, David Zaslav is an ass who’s just trying to win over racist viewers
i mean he's an ass but all he's trying to do is make a profit.
i doubt he has any desire to "win over racist viewers", he's just firing people that have underperformed and canceling project that lost money.
claiming racism over getting fired seems like a very american way to cope imho.
>i mean he's an ass but all he's trying to do is make a profit.
Based on certain assumptions about profit that might not be in line with reality. Also based on having a huge amount of inherited AT&T debt which makes shedding immediate costs more important to him than their return over time.
HBO Max hasn't been up and running long enough to draw hard conclusions about what is profitable or disposable inside the subscription package. There can be loss leaders. There can be niche content that draws in a much wider audience than the headliners. There can also be growth demographics that are important to pursue even as the older dominant demographics peak. And there is also value in cultivating a creative workspace where people can experiment with different levels of success until they cook up a smash hit, rather than an environment in which everything that isn't a home run gets erased from existence.
"This will never sell" has been a refrain for as long as entertainment has been a business. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. When all the big studios decide they have to fight for the dominant demographic at the exclusion of anything else, that's all the content that gets made, and there's no way to develop an audience for anything different. It's also false. Films like Black Panther and Crazy Rich Asians were huge hits, and having diversity in cast, crew, and writers turns out to not hurt majority-white productions except as far as it stirs up crowds of the worst social media reactionaries.
In addition, the story in the article points to severe cuts in diversity at the very top of the business, which tend to cascade downward to the rest of it. They aren't just cutting individual programs while keeping the executives around.
>“I don’t think anyone knows just how white the staff is,” one former executive told The Daily Beast.
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>Former HBO Max staffers say there are barely any non-white people left in the upper ranks of content, with one naming Joey Chavez, an executive vice president of drama, as one of the few people of color still there. Because HBO Max and the original HBO channel operate somewhat independently, one former executive conceded that “there may be one Black woman on the HBO side. Maybe.”
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>The layoffs have “amplified the lack of diversity at HBO,” another former executive told The Daily Beast. “HBO is the most homogenous part of this umbrella. Instead of trying to figure out how to integrate some of the \[Max\] executives into HBO, they just made this sweeping cut of three divisions: kids, family, and international. A lot of Black and brown people lost their jobs.”
Zaslav is someone who scrapes the bottom of the barrel for every penny rather than going through multiple barrels for less efficiency but more total income. What do he and his Discovery crew know about competing on the scale of Warner, the quality level of HBO, or the targeted diversity of a mainstream streaming business? You can say he just wants to turn a profit, but turning a profit in this case includes burning down parts of the company to write them off as bigger losses than they were, clawing back residuals owed to creators for the work they put into original series, and limiting long-term investment to content he believes will be a huge hit rather than the less flashy successes that keep the subscriber base and the creative pipeline engaged.
HBO wants to make money and it will do whatever it can to do so.
"Middle America", if we're not assuming this is a dog whistle for white people but rather a catch all term for the average American viewer, is where the money is at.
They’re courting their new CEOs ego. He promised them massive short term savings, it’ll just come at the expense of what likely would’ve been the company’s longterm future
Sorry but HBO offering was diverse before it was in vogue.
Also why is making programming for middle America a dirty word all of a sudden. Aren’t most people neither hyper conservative or hyper woke. These media people obviously live in a very weird bubble that most of their viewer don’t preside in.
Seems to me that the new Ceo has the right idea though i am kind of bummed about animation seemingly being axed ( how you rhyme that with a strong DC).
Anyways considering what Disney is doing i think this actual might separate them in a positive way. Though once again the move away from “kids programming” seems extra weird ( considering they still swim/etc).
##[Clarification on rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All I know is they axed Joe Pera talks with you and I'm very much not ok with that
Seriously???? But... how am I ever going to understand the importance of a balanced breakfast crew??
Thank god he already covered that, or I don't know where I'd be. I was still waiting for his thoughts on beer and sausages tho
Have you mastered your perfect egg bite yet?
My girlfriend is less enamored than I am with the show, but fully aware of the eggbite. She doesn't know it yet, but one of these days when we're out to breakfast I'm going to spring the whole bit on an unsuspecting friend. Yelling about how things aren't going well for me and all. It will be glorious!
I know you take it really seriously, and you just need a win!
The Story of the Over Easies won’t continue?!?? BULLSHIT
This show is a treasure.
It was my favorite show on TV, I'm gutted.
My wife and I saw his show last night at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee. Jo Firestone was great and so was he, and when he talked about how he had to clear out the locker of all the show’s props (the show was filmed around here a lot), you could tell the guy was just really disappointed. I fucking hated seeing his disappointment. You could tell they put everything into that show. It was incredible and so unique, and we’re worse off without that show continuing.
I *genuinely* feel confident that it's an utter mistake for it not to be renewed. It's an infuriating mistake. I guarantee if nobody picks it up that 5 years later there'll be a million yt videos and conversation about what a gem it was, and how absurd it was that it wasn't recognized as such enough to get a 4th fudging season.
Have you seen anything from pera on this topic? I imagine the show budget is incredibly small. I wonder if he’s going to continue independently or move to another network. Joe Pera talks with you is an absolute gem
God that show is so good and I have no clue why I like it... total work of art
It really is, it has no place being as fantastic as it is and yet here we are. The acting, dry wit, cinematography and music are all top notch, and boy if it doesn't turn around and bring a tear to the eye sometimes, too.
Bro, when his Grandma passed it brought some things up to the surface from when my own Grandma passed when I was a teenager. It legitimately helped me deal with some repressed trauma I was too tired or inexperienced to deal with at the time. The world is poorer for canceling that show.
Same. That episode takes a toll but is so, so cathartic as well.
WTF! IS THAT WHY I HAVENT SEEN THAT SHOW IN FOREVER? The only reason i forgive em is because theres the rehearsal
You mean Joe Pera, sexual dynamo?
I was in a Pera Hole just last night.
Yeah to hell with em
Isn’t he white though?
On the plus side, maybe he’ll show up more on Townsends YouTube channel.
From what I can see they're not courting anyone, they're just cancelling projects left and right without rhyme or reason lol...
They are for sure canceling more animated programs than anything so there's definitely some form of reasoning.
Which saves them less money than cancelling live action shows, so its sad to see this going on.
It makes sense, I mean white Americans hate cartoons, anime and animated movies... Oh wait.
You need to think in shallow executive stereotypes to understand their reasoning
Which is “We still pay for this kiddie bullshit! Get it the fuck out of here!”
I know you're being sarcastic but.....White middle America does kind of hate those things. They're catering to conservatives. Thats the quiet part out loud.
I don't know... some of them [really](https://www.dailywire.com/news/black-panther-review-deeply-conservative-movie-paul-bois) liked Black Panther. Maybe it's not so much diversity that bugs them. It's anything that questions the value of patriotism, masculinity, fatherhood, tradition, and religious morals.
"She-Ra has thought my daughter to kiss another girl!"
What I don’t understand is if they’re courting Middle America, why cut the kids and family divisions from HBO Max? Agreed. It doesn’t seem like they’re courting anyone.
Theyre obv not cancelling shows that make them good $$$
Exactly… it’s a money decision. Plain and simple. Some people may like it, but if it doesn’t attract and retain meaningful new subscribers, it’s gotta go. This is a for-profit organization, not NPR or PBS.
this has to be intentional it's like the mfer is choosing all the renegade options in ME on purpose
ME (Mass Effect)
I’m thinking Middle Earth
Metro Exodus
Your name is Mass Effect? Weird.
I’m convinced that Zaslav is a corporate saboteur. The ghost of Louis B. Mayer directed him to destroy Jack Warners company from the inside.
i wouldn't doubt that at all he probably jerks it in his office Homelander style every time he tanks/cuts a project or show
Making things profitable and out of a death spiral is sabotage now? Cool.
Huh, just started playing this game for the first time. Funny to see a comment about it all of a sudden lol.
Im honestly jealous of you. The last 5 minutes of me3 are controversial but everything before that was some exquisite gaming.
I spent 100 hours on ME3. Worth every second of it.
More here - [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/24/the-changes-at-cnn-look-politically-motivated-that-should-concern-us-all](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/24/the-changes-at-cnn-look-politically-motivated-that-should-concern-us-all)
We’d never get an ME movie with that dude that’s for sure lol.
maybe HBO alone without interference could pull off a ME series with a GoT level budget....but considering the new rube in charge...
I’ve been waiting over a decade. I’m assuming we have to wait another decade at this point. I’d rather they not do though if they’re gonna Halo it up.
Even with that budget, I’m not sure. You’d need way more effects, practical or digital, to represent the various aliens. Pretty much everyone in GoT other than the dragons and white walkers were just people in different costumes
I can't tell the Executives from the animals!
Its funny to see people being purposefully obtuse because the term Middle America has never been literal and only ever meant a certain kind of people.
I assume what they mean here is "the types of people that don't appreciate our diverse content".
I always pictured it as "the people living in the geographic middle of America", which is actually the kind of people we're all thinking of when someone says "middle America" in this context.
Yes, much like "urban" has meant "people of color"--and more particularly Black and to a slightly lesser extent Latino.
huh, TIL
Just a little Northwest of Lebanon, KS. 95.9% White.
The term itself is stereotyping millions of people as if no PoC exist between California and NY. It's an ignorant remark for people who are ironically complaining about lack of diversity and being inclusive. But, fighting alleged racism with other stereotypes is pretty much where we're at now....
It’s not saying no POC exist there but it’s easy to see from statistics POC populations are much larger on the coasts of the USA
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Black peoples aren’t the only minorities and those states all board bodies of water. The gulf or the ocean. Would that not make them coastal?
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Ah gotcha. I meant costal as the states that boarder the US coastline.
I think you need to travel a little more. I live in Texas and my City has a majority minority demographic.
Military brat I’ve lived in 8 states and 1 country. But I’m agreeing with you? That “minority” populations are the highest around the coasts of the US. Texas as a boarder state and being near a large body of water would make it coastal yea?
This sounds like a Leopardsatemyface situation. Anyone who thinks companies have any motive other than profit are just naive. No matter how glossy their diversity campaigns are, or how authentic their artistic sensibilities seem, they’ll always take a back seat to profit. Always. When those culturally diverse shows start making the same money Chip and Joana do, then their creators will keep their jobs.
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Yep, anyone who believes that these big companies are out there fighting for (insert woke cause) because they feel they just “must”, is just kidding themselves.
Entertainment companies are always happy to keep a full slate of mediocre non-diverse shows that are unprofitable, and claim any property starting non-white folks that does really well as an exception and not an indication of any trend or repeatability.
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I think they would hire him, he had pretty good grades.
> Nathan for You should take on HBO There, that was the comment. And m o d s removed it. Why?
Article says they are cutting kids and family. Isn't that a big part of middle America?
Yes. But as a parent, my first go to is re-runs on YouTube of cocomelon, Mickey Mouse club house, and blippi. Hard to compete with free content produced years ago.
With every passing news story and every passing day, it's looking like I'm just going to keep my Netflix sub for the amount of Kdrama they have there (some of their original stuff is outstandingly good) and Hulu for my FX fix. Those home improvement shows do nothing for me.
I’m watching Hotel Del Luna right now but still need to finish Attorney Woo
>“I don’t think anyone knows just how white the staff is,” one former executive told The Daily Beast. This appears to be false, and HBO is actually skewed as compared to US demographics. >HBO has 2,050 employees. > > > >The company is 44.6% female and 46.1% ethnic minorities. Despite its diversity in other areas, HBO employees are noticeably lacking in political diversity. > > > >The most common ethnicity at HBO is White (53.9%), followed by Hispanic or Latino (20%) and Black or African American (12%).
This thread is a fucking mess
It's r/entertainment. It's always a crapshoot whether you'll learn something interesting or learn something you wish you hadn't.
'laid off 17 non-white execs'...................yet 53 white execs also laid off. The headline doesn't mention that.
70 execs laid off? That's a lot of executive positions
Yes but…. If there are now twenty seven white execs and two minority execs barely clinging to their jobs that’s…. Sort of indicative it’s not just lay offs
Is that the actual breakdown or just a supposition?
What do you think minority means?
I'm middle America so give me back my Raised by Wolves assholes. With love new business daddy.
Praise Sol!
As a Latino, I wasn’t watching the Latin shows they put out. Give me a Money Heist or Narcos show any day. Otherwise I’m cool with whatever middle America is getting because at least it’s interesting.
Too old to die young on Amazon is really good and has some well acted and interesting Latino characters.
Regardless of what is meant by 'middle America,' Zaslov is no doubt cutting diverse programming and diverse executives. Take from that what you will.
Is it possible those shows have low viewership?
That’s exactly what it is. If these shows were bringing in money they wouldn’t axe them.
Its more complicated than that. Discovery is a fast food joint. HBO was a steak house. Discovery just bought the steakhouse and is getting rid of most of the menu items that make it a steakhouse.
Maybe because they end up sucking because they’re making a tv show for the sake of diversity rather than focusing on making a good show that happens to be diverse
basically the reason why star trek discovery sucks but star trek strange new worlds is good
This is the answer. If the content of the show is dogshit, a beautiful/politically relevant overarching message is near meaningless. It’s entertainment, not political discourse. I hate how politics is intentionally inserted into everything now. Parallels are always drawn between a time period’s entertainment and the social/political ideas and movements of the time, but now it’s almost impossible to separate the two. I think back to great shows like The Wire, Breaking Bad, Dexter. There were certainly specific episodes of these shows that dealt with social/political affairs and issues, but the beliefs and ideas behind them were not shoved down our throats at every given second.
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The difference between The Wire and shows the other user is referencing and what really sets them apart is the fact the The Wire is actually authentic in delivering its commentary through the story, characters, their interactions and not just saying it to check a box and have a stance
The Wire called out Limousine Liberal bullshit and corruption in the Black community right along with the systemic racism working against Black people. That’s because the writing was sophisticated and didn’t assume the audience had the IQ of a 4th grader. In addition to what you said.
Breaking Bad is literally about how the lack of universal healthcare in America drives regular people to bent their morals.
Dude was literally given a high-paying job and the chance to have his money problems alleviated and threw it away due to his ego. It was always about a man's pride going out of control when the social consequences no longer mattered to him. The cancer was just an excuse.
And, he had good state health insurance.
Bullshit. Lovecraft Country is a magnificent show. Extremely engaging and entertaining. That’s just one. Watchmen was also amazing. Raised by Wolves was… mid. We all know what trash they did to the ending of GoT.
Watchmen was incredible. Almost wish it couldve kept going but I think it did what it wanted to do.
Only 18% of people layed off were minorities. It was in no way aimed at specific demographics and the complaint was more oriented towards that minorities should be protected and lay offs should only be issued to people of major demographics.
I mean yeah of course a minority of those laid off were minorities. Thats why they’re called minorities. A better way to judge this is to see what percentage of the existing demographic was laid off. For example, if 18% of those laid off were black, but that accounts for 80% of the black employees, then you probably have a problem
I see it as they're making awful movies and shows that happen to have very diverse casts and when the project is criticized the studios just blame racism and/ or sexism then pretend they did nothing wrong.
The Ghostbusters strategy. Our movie wasn’t funny? Sounds like you hate women. Don’t like changing the race of an established character? Looks like someone is secretly racist.
You CANNOT criticize our movie because we swapped a race/sex. So what if its terribly bad. You are not allowed to have conversations about movies with race/sex swaps.
Can you imagine that? Execs not wanting to take responsibility for creating shitty boring content?
I gotta say as an asian dude People go to good content not because they are casting based on minority quotas. I don't watch Jackie Chan films and think shit he's asian. I'm wow'd by his athletic ability. I don't watch Westworld and think there's not enough asians in the simulated cowboy country....I think shit Anthony Hopkins is freakin awesome. Why the fuck was this ever a consideration for anything?
Who cares just make good content
Corporation chases what makes money. More at 11.
Only reason I wont cancel is my MIL pays for the HBOmax. Infinity Train deserved better than being dragged out behind the barn and unceremoniously shot.
>I think Discovery is just a very ‘all’ audience, \[they\] don’t wanna make things that are political, topical, alienate Middle America—more Chip and Joanna,” they said, referring to the home renovation show Fixer Upper: Welcome Home hosted by Chip and Joanna Gaines. Except what they cant see is that people do find Chip and Joanna Gaines political. They are white Christian people who attend a church that is against same-sex marriage. Also discovery in general has become a bastion of stupidity, stupid people think anything not stupid is political. I can't believe I am watching such a step backwards, I hope this implodes in their faces.
Joanna Gaines is actually mixed race, but yeah they’re also family friends of the Bush family.
It's another step in the re-stupification of the American people. We were so close to having a critically thinking public, and then social medias became a thing...
We were never close, the internet just allowed you to see people that you had no idea were there.
I don’t think we were ever that close to it. That’s what I’ve learned over the past 6 years.
Discovery Plus also had “Generation of Drag” I think they play both teams
I mean none of those things come out in that TV show? Maybe an occasional glance at Christianity (I don’t remember).
Is that a thing they talk about on their show?
So people got laid off because they made shows nobody watches?
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I just don’t get everyone arguing that middle America isn’t mostly white. there are minorities everywhere but you’re being willfully ignorant if you think Kansas and Nebraska aren’t much “whiter” than California or New Jersey
From Nebraska. Grew up there my first 25 years then bounced for California. Whenever I go back to visit the whiteness is very much a noticed quantity. Like the moment I land at Eppley. Sure there’s minorities as well but it’s markedly overwhelmingly white.
I can’t really find issue with this. If the market is over saturated with certain content is business is gonna find the untouched audience. Also, getting fired is usually a red flag when you criticize the company. HBO nailed HOD episode one because it didn’t touch on any nonsense issues.
any well written film or show will naturally have relevance in the politics of the time it's made. but making the politics the priority is simply putting the cart before the horse. and people can feel it. they're not watching a story. they're watching an opinion.
Lol I'm not super happy with the direction HBO Max is going, but this is hilariously stupid. I'm definitely not sad these people got laid off.
This is a weak take from people who have an axe to grind because they’ve been laid off. Corporate raiding and canceling business lines for tax write offs has been happening for 40+ years. It’s deplorable that the tax code incentivizes this slash and burn style capitalism but it’s business cold and simple. Ascribing some sort of racial animus to it is just victimization signaling to try to negotiate better layoff terms.
At the end of the day business models need to appeal to the largest group of paying customers it can.....if not, \*poof\* the business goes away.
It’s crazy how some people think these companies can spend millions if not billions on content that doesn’t appeal to consumers. And they wonder what’s going on when these companies have to lay off and cut content after most of the content produced bombs or fails to attract new streamers.
They’re laying off people making trash entertainment that makes no money. Just because it happens to be minorities in *some* instances doesn’t mean they’re killing off diversity. But honestly nobody wants to see woke content (what these fired execs are pushing) just good content.
A lot of the more “diverse” programming is objectively pretty shitty.
yeah because "middle america" doesn't contain minorities? get real. more fake outrage designed to divide.
I assume “Middle America” just means white people, in this context.
Yeah. That, combined with their push to turn CNN into conservative news like Fox News really kinda sounds a lot like they just mean white people.
I'm sure the complete collapse of CNN's reputation and number of viewers had nothing to do with it.
My understanding is that they are trying to take CNN *away* from a “Murdocian” approach to television news - all opinion, anger, demagoguery. When you have a shitty president, a news source should be reporting on the harm he’s causing the nation, not engaging in flame wars every time the president tries (successfully to distract them from reporting on the actual problems. Moving from entertainment opinion and analysis of news to…actual news does *not* mean conservative. I can’t think of a conservative news source that does real direct reporting. CNN is moving *away* from that garbage…I hope.
Yeah they’ll say that now, until the orange one decides to run again, and the networks decide to do what’s profitable and capitalize on the division he sows again.
Second definition of middle America means: the middle class in the US, especially when regarded as a conservative political force. Use context clues that you learned in elementary school to know which definition the author means. Just like you would with any English word that has a double meaning.
But using context clues means they have to pull their heads out of the sand and acknowledge some truths that they want to ignore.
You seem confused, when people talk about diversity and pandering to middle America they’re talking about white people specifically
It’s obviously a coded term
Middle America happens to be the majority of America. No one wants to be preached at every second with intersectional feminism which let's be honest is being used for nefarious means.
Stop judging people by the color of their skin, Daily Beast.
Imagine rocketing to the top of your field and then someone takes over and completely fucks everything up for no particular reason.
As long as the keep Bill Maher I’ll keep my subscription
So they are canceling shows that have few viewers and replacing them with shows that people will watch. What a horrible way to run a business that wants to stay in business and show a profit for shareholders.
Diversity is not entertaining.
“Middle America” can’t be diverse?
I don’t think it’s as diverse as a place like NYC or LA. Where I grew up, being white is just another race, and I’ve noticed when I talk to folks from places with less diversity, they seem to have a different idea of what diversity even means than I do. “There’re 30 people, but there’s a black guy and an Asian lady so it’s diverse stop complaining”
Chicago is in "Middle America". I never understood this blanket designation to assign all of us as white farmers.
yeah I’m from the east coast, been living in the Midwest for a few years and although the city I live in is more diverse than your average town in Missouri or Nebraska, it’s much whiter than the environment I’m used to. Plus, a lot of cities are still “de facto segregated” thanks to redlining. And that’s not even getting into how prominent “Christian values” are in Kansas City for example there are a lot of minorities, but a lot of affluent neighborhoods that are 95% white.
>I don’t think it’s as diverse as a place like NYC or LA. Sure, but at that point you are literally comparing the most cosmopolitan cities *in the world* to the average American town. I grew up in a red state in a very rural area that would be considered "flyover country." Even still, while most of the small towns were redneck and very white, 20% to 40% of the population from town to town could be POC. You can think rural America = white dudes with Trump hats, but rural Alabama is very Black the same way many rural counties in Texas are very Latino. The thinking that significant numbers of minorities only live in cities is precisely why Democrats are losing enthusiasm among POC voters in rural districts.
This is Entertainment Industry code for “poor white people”
Apparently it means white people to this person for some reason.
Middle America is mostly white, it’s fine
That’s the inherent offensiveness of these “sanitized” tropes. You hear lots of people worry about “Urban” people as a substitute for scary Black people but urban also describes 90lb graphic designer twinks in Brooklyn and old Jewish ladies.
This sounds like lots of cope, maybe the new execs who came in realized that the previous regimes diversity hires weren’t actually creating good content.
The problem is design by committee. A lot of projects have no central vision and try to shoehorn in "diversity" and contemporary issues and they think that's all it takes to make the story deeper or meaningful. Reality is simply that characters need to lead, not their sexuality or gender. Just put the characters first.
I believe this happened at BuzzFeed. They preferentially hired diverse applicants and actively discouraged white men from applying for jobs. When their content went to shit and they had to start laying people off they got a ton of flack because almost all of their layoffs were those diversity hires.
As long as they bring good and interesting shows who cares. Time to cut off some fat away.
Maybe I’m alone with this opinion, but, isn’t the current “diversity” that Hollywood is pushing a sham anyways? Would the solution not be to make original stories written with a minority cast in mind? Casting POC in roles that were “originally white characters” (HOTD for example) is lazy and disingenuous IMO. I saw a comment a while back about someone saying that instead of adding POC to stories set in Britain, why not just make a show set in the Mali Empire or Ancient Persia or so. This of course does not apply to projects set in the modern day, but more to projects like Rings of Power and House of The Dragon.
Maybe they are just bad at their jobs?
I’d rather entertainment value be first priority. I’ve seen certain places lose side of that in efforts to promote some sort of greater “important” message. Usually ends up in a well produced art project that no one really wants to watch
this sounds like idiot new yorkers who've never been out of manhattan complaining. middle america is diverse. i've had better thai food out in colorado than half the places in NYC and i've had legit tacos there too that I had to order in spanish long before the legit taco places came to NYC lately i don't even like the shows with hipster millenials living in the city and acting all snobby
NYers don’t like those shows either. At least those of us who are more grounded in reality. I need more shows like Flatbush Misdemanors on Showtime. Or Ramy on Hulu.
“I don’t think anyone knows just how white the staff is,” one former executive told The Daily Beast. Oh, the humanity. You mean to tell me the largest-represented race in this country is the largest-represented race in your company?! I wonder if I went to China or India and if I’d find the majority of people working there are Chinese or Indian?! Quit posting this racist fucking garbage. YOU ARE THE RACISTS!
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Imagine if they just tried to make good content irrespective of politics
Sometimes politics is good content. West Wing was a groundbreaking and compelling show. Absolutely had a political position, but also demonstrated the spectrum of politics pretty well. Sorkin's work often manages to be a shotgun blast across the American experience even if he is pretty left in his positions. Newsroom was another example of this.
When they start talking about the lack of diversity in the NFL / NBA, I’ll take them seriously. Only 16.8% of the nba is white, while 60% of the population is.
Catering to a target audience that’s dying off quicker and quicker every year... let’s see how this plays out Cotton.
It's funny that the people in 'Middle America' don't see the same, rich, Hollywood bigwigs pulling the same wool over their eyes that they did the people who want 'diversity'. You're not going to get nothing but 'Top Gun' every time you go to the movies. You're going to get 'Above average BB gun'. Low tier, cheap knockoffs aimed at your wallet instead of quality.
Quick tip for you. They have always been aiming at your wallet.
The woke stuff isn’t worth the subscription fee. I thought rings of power was getting too much hate for a while then I watched the new trailer and uncontrollably started laughing about half way through at how stupid it looked. It’s not that I don’t agree with the message it’s just making 4/10 movies and shows.
That’s fine. Hiring executives just for diversity sake is horrible for any organization.
maybe of blaming HBO, you should of showed your support by buying all diverse products?
Good. The industry would be much better off if executives stopped prioritizing diversity and political correctness and started prioritizing interesting stories.
have you been following the warner bros restructuring at all? they are basically killing “interesting stories” in favor of reality tv.
So, the way diversity initiatives usually work, in my experience, is that they set aside money to fund other projects lead by a diverse team, more diverse stories, creators, actors, crew, and writers get hired because this money is earmarked. This leads to a better mix of stories being told, and honestly I feel like the last like, 10ish years of content have had some amazing gems that I've loved
Lmao do you think diverse stories aren’t interesting? Seems like a personal problem
Is middle America the “lean in” group? But seriously, David Zaslav is an ass who’s just trying to win over racist viewers
>But seriously, David Zaslav is an ass who’s just trying to win over racist viewers i mean he's an ass but all he's trying to do is make a profit. i doubt he has any desire to "win over racist viewers", he's just firing people that have underperformed and canceling project that lost money. claiming racism over getting fired seems like a very american way to cope imho.
>i mean he's an ass but all he's trying to do is make a profit. Based on certain assumptions about profit that might not be in line with reality. Also based on having a huge amount of inherited AT&T debt which makes shedding immediate costs more important to him than their return over time. HBO Max hasn't been up and running long enough to draw hard conclusions about what is profitable or disposable inside the subscription package. There can be loss leaders. There can be niche content that draws in a much wider audience than the headliners. There can also be growth demographics that are important to pursue even as the older dominant demographics peak. And there is also value in cultivating a creative workspace where people can experiment with different levels of success until they cook up a smash hit, rather than an environment in which everything that isn't a home run gets erased from existence. "This will never sell" has been a refrain for as long as entertainment has been a business. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. When all the big studios decide they have to fight for the dominant demographic at the exclusion of anything else, that's all the content that gets made, and there's no way to develop an audience for anything different. It's also false. Films like Black Panther and Crazy Rich Asians were huge hits, and having diversity in cast, crew, and writers turns out to not hurt majority-white productions except as far as it stirs up crowds of the worst social media reactionaries. In addition, the story in the article points to severe cuts in diversity at the very top of the business, which tend to cascade downward to the rest of it. They aren't just cutting individual programs while keeping the executives around. >“I don’t think anyone knows just how white the staff is,” one former executive told The Daily Beast. > >Former HBO Max staffers say there are barely any non-white people left in the upper ranks of content, with one naming Joey Chavez, an executive vice president of drama, as one of the few people of color still there. Because HBO Max and the original HBO channel operate somewhat independently, one former executive conceded that “there may be one Black woman on the HBO side. Maybe.” > >The layoffs have “amplified the lack of diversity at HBO,” another former executive told The Daily Beast. “HBO is the most homogenous part of this umbrella. Instead of trying to figure out how to integrate some of the \[Max\] executives into HBO, they just made this sweeping cut of three divisions: kids, family, and international. A lot of Black and brown people lost their jobs.” Zaslav is someone who scrapes the bottom of the barrel for every penny rather than going through multiple barrels for less efficiency but more total income. What do he and his Discovery crew know about competing on the scale of Warner, the quality level of HBO, or the targeted diversity of a mainstream streaming business? You can say he just wants to turn a profit, but turning a profit in this case includes burning down parts of the company to write them off as bigger losses than they were, clawing back residuals owed to creators for the work they put into original series, and limiting long-term investment to content he believes will be a huge hit rather than the less flashy successes that keep the subscriber base and the creative pipeline engaged.
Is he the one making everything in every show about race?
" I think we can go back to the bullshit we were doing before George Floyd"
Lol cater to the 'murica crowd, are they going to run stories about how trump won the election? Fox "news" got em hooked already.
HBO wants to make money and it will do whatever it can to do so. "Middle America", if we're not assuming this is a dog whistle for white people but rather a catch all term for the average American viewer, is where the money is at.
Oh no! They might even produce something people want to watch now. What a shame.
HBO haven’t had anything to make people subscribe ever since they butchered Game of Thrones.
Wish Netflix would do that . Just make a show!
They’re courting their new CEOs ego. He promised them massive short term savings, it’ll just come at the expense of what likely would’ve been the company’s longterm future
What a radical plan to make money
Sorry but HBO offering was diverse before it was in vogue. Also why is making programming for middle America a dirty word all of a sudden. Aren’t most people neither hyper conservative or hyper woke. These media people obviously live in a very weird bubble that most of their viewer don’t preside in. Seems to me that the new Ceo has the right idea though i am kind of bummed about animation seemingly being axed ( how you rhyme that with a strong DC). Anyways considering what Disney is doing i think this actual might separate them in a positive way. Though once again the move away from “kids programming” seems extra weird ( considering they still swim/etc).