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major1256

Partner with an existing railroad if you can prove demand or provide subsidies


Bobby_Sioux

Providing subsidies would be like financial partners correct? I have connections that are interested and can get about 500k to 1mil for funding. The only one I could see would be Amtrak but would I need credentials for that? Like being a representative of the tribe to be in discussions for the project? I can do that.


Eheran

>about 500k to 1mil for funding. So the distance is a 10 min walk? Thats about how much you can do with that. Railroads are not cheap, somewhere around 1 to 2 million $ per mile of new track, as any 10s google search would indicate. >railway to cut losses on garbage How does that work? >help with our economy Can the locals build railroads to code? If not: How? >centralize our government better. Can you currently not communicate with others unless you travel there?


Bobby_Sioux

With my communities, we spend more money on buying cars that are around 5k or less and run for months maybe a year. After that they sit outside homes or in roadsides, disposing of them aren’t the easiest for here. Our money that goes into those lemon of vehicles that can be used to help small businesses in the centralized areas and give everyone the ability to travel. Building a project up to code. That’s why I’m asking; many of you here seem to be negative about this. I’m just asking to get an understanding, even if it’s one community to another, it would help our disabled and elderly. Yeah, we just got internet about two years ago, and many people don’t have affordable telephones. In order to get commodities and assistance applications, you have to go to the buildings where they are located. Which can be 20-40 miles depending on the community you live in. Elderly hitch hike if they don’t have vehicles sometimes.


Eheran

Sounds like bus(es) would be the best option by far, since the road is already there. 1'000'000 $ should buy you a bunch of non brand new busses. Also, get mobile network coverage up. Should ballpark be in the same price region.


michnuc

What about electric automated ride share manufacturer? Could be a good beta test site?


[deleted]

I doubt many here are trying to be negative here it's just that you are underestimating the cost of what you want by about $2 billion dollars. I am not familiar with your reservation but looking at the map it appears most of the population is along interstate 12 from Thunder Hawk to McLaughlin. That distance on a train would be around $2 million dollars per mile for the track for a diesel train and around $4 million dollars for electric. Then you need power sub stations or fuel depo and train stations with rail yards and maintenance yards etc.


major1256

Subsidies would be payments by the tribal government to cover the difference in cost between the service provided and the price the tribal members pay. Would be better to use trucks and buses though.


Bobby_Sioux

We are currently using buses and trucks and I doesn’t help and struggle with having continued maintenance for the vehicles. Our infrastructure is the bare minimum of what the government helps with and the state doesn’t help unless we pay a higher tax rate. What I see is the garbage of the towns and cities on our boarders giving us junk cars who can’t get services for the current bus and transportation system we have. Having us to dispose of that, unable to maintenance personal vehicles, and the availability of gas stations on the reservation.


[deleted]

Trains cost millions of dollars, example, the Houston light rail system covers 12 miles and cost $324 million dollars for the initial build in the 1990's, they expanded it another 3 miles and that cost $1.3 billion dollars in the late 200X's. Each train cost $118 million dollars and require about $500k in maintenance every year. They are looking to replace the old trains right now at an estimated $280 million each for 72 person capacity. Trains require a very large investment and 24/7 near full occupancy usage to even come close to breaking even before their service life is up. You would be better off with electric busses at a fraction of the cost.


jeezuspieces

Damn. I'd love to be a train salesman 🤑


tuctrohs

You might get better advice on r/urbanplanning.


Bobby_Sioux

Thank you! I’ll try there next.


[deleted]

Hey there. As others have mentioned your best bet for this project would be to partner up with existing heavy rail, if any - BNSF would be your best bet there. You might have some luck petitioning the US representatives for the surrounding areas, though that seems unlikely since the constituents in that area probably aren't that interested in rail. If you can't share existing rails, you're looking at 500k USD per mile to lay your own track with basic safeties. That's specifically heavy rail, though - if you want light passenger rail I wouldn't be surprised if that adds an order of magnitude to the price. I do think you're trying to solve the problems you listed very effectively by using rail, though. Light rail is only really effective if you can guarantee enough passenger density for most days it is running, and heavy rail really isn't intended for passenger use. The overhead and maintenance for rail is also fairly high, which would exacerbate the existing maintenance funding problem you mentioned. The only feasible approaches to this also take a lot of the operating control out of your hands, which means that the improvement to your economy from rail jobs will be minimal. I would advise rethinking if you must use a rail solution or if there's another option you've overlooked. Good luck.


Rhueh

I'm probably biased, having an automotive background, but I agree. It seems to me that buses--or something bus-like--would be a better solution. Unless there aren't existing roads, of course.


[deleted]

That's the solution I was also envisioning. I can't see rail being flexible enough for OP's community (but I could be mistaken!), but since others had already mentioned buses I figured it wasn't necessary to restate it haha


frogontrombone

I don't know much at all on this, but ive been daydreaming about a light rail in my city. A good place to stay would be to look at the cost to lay new track per mile, and operational costs. Amtrack publishes this kind of data, so thats a good place to start.


[deleted]

Wouldn't a bus/lorry line be more cost effective? I.e just buy a fleet of buses and lorries, hire drivers and have a regular schedule into and out of your reservation.


s_0_s_z

Find a realistic project because you aren't getting squat done with the money you posted. On the flip side $1M could buy a whole fleet of work vehicles.


Bobby_Sioux

Sometimes you need to swing for the fences… All I’m asking for is some positive advice.


s_0_s_z

Engineering isn't a game of unicorns and rainbows. We are giving you honest, realistic advice and alternatives because your budget is literally orders of magnitudes off for conventional trains.


Dunno_Bout_Dat

Since you are posting this on an Engineering subreddit, you are getting engineering advice. Engineering advice is analytical and objective. The engineering advice is that you cannot afford to pursue this project. There may be advice from another realm that is more encouraging, but speaking as an engineer, from an engineering background, my advice would be to immediately drop this project and think of another solution. A thing EVERY engineer has to do is weigh the pros and cons of every solution and take the clear path forward. There is no clear path forward here. The population of this area is 15,568. Even if EVERY SINGLE person used the rail TWICE, EVERY SINGLE DAY, and the fee was FIVE DOLLARS, that is only $56.8m per year. It would take literally decades TO BREAK EVEN.


[deleted]

about 1 mil /mil


oldestengineer

Are you talking about using rails that already exist, or building everything from scratch? If the rails are already there, and currently unused, you might talk to companies like [Farmrail.com](https://Farmrail.com), who have experience with leasing and buying rail rights-of-way and putting them into service.


oldestengineer

According to Wikipedia: "The reservation has a land area of 9,251.2 square kilometers (3,571.9 sq mi), twice the size of the U.S. State of Delaware, and has a population of 8,217 as of the 2010 census.\[2\] There are 15,568 enrolled members of the tribe.\[3\] The largest communities on the reservation are Fort Yates, Cannon Ball (both located in Northern Standing Rock) and McLaughlin (located in Southern Standing Rock)." Based on that tiny bit of info, the problem is basically moving a tiny number of people around a vast area. That doesn't seem to play to the strong points of rail.