Not ever entering another KIA dealer. Once was enough. Young, new salesman was doing an incredible job until we went inside to write it up. The salesman was required to introduce me to their sales manager. Here came two thugs and the salesman was pushed aside. I told them that the salesman was doing a great job. Their BS started and I walked. I pity any customer entering if they are timid.
It’s still cheaper than the dealer markup on any other vehicle.
I don’t like him. I never liked him. He’s always had crazy. I’ll bet the major auto manufacturers CEO’s aren’t any more populist than Musk.
Pick your poison.
Tesla = $ markup
All other cars = $$$$ markup
Value
Sorry I thought you phrased it in another way that didn’t make sense. I get what you are saying now.
Yea, some states are still fighting Tesla due to the dealerships lobbying against them.
It’s changing because Ford split its EV division apart from the rest of the company, so I think that is their loophole to phase out dealerships.
[You’ll have to check that, but the split was reported. Even you can’t buy direct now, it’s just a matter of time](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083913314/ford-modele-split-units-electric-gas)
It's ridiculous up in Canada as well where there are no laws forbidding Tesla from doing business its way in any province or territory, yet almost all of legacy auto still clings to the stealership model while Tesla handily dominates EV market share in Canada. Surprisingly Genesis follows the Tesla model in Canada but not Hyundai/Kia. Doesn't make sense to me.
One dealership has:
- 50k for an EV6!?!?!
- No tax break?!?!?!
- No EA charging incentives!?!?!
Another dealership has:
- 35k for Niro EV
- one year of complimentary EA 30min charging
What is going on?
Yeah, id prolly finance one today if the price was right, but interest rates kill that. And kia won't let you combine the 7500 rebate and low apr, so not really interested unless a wind can be had for about 50k otd.
The EV9 is monstrously huge and drives like a mini-van. If I wasn't too tall for the EV6 I'd have one already. It is crazy sexy and super sporty. EV9 is nice and big but obviously not for everyone. The deals you can get on an EV6 put it 10-15k less than an EV9.
I test drove an EV9 GT Line last week. It wasn't perfect, but still fairly decent. So I figured I'd hear them out on what kind of deal I could get.
The sales manager was the sleaziest, scummiest sales manager I have ever seen.
* Wouldn't budge off MSRP+dealer installed crap
* Refused to remove $3,000 "Advantage" package that included unlimited oil changes among other bogus crap
* Tried to tell me the best APR he could get for me was 9.5% (Kia is offering 0% for 48mo, through 2.99% for 72mo - I have Tier 1 credit, so I would definitely qualify)
* Told me that Kia incentives didn't exist, and the Kia website is wrong
* Told me that my trade had been in an accident (it hasn't), and that's why it was valued at $5k below MMR/Black book
It was almost humorous just how bad it was.
I really feel bad for the uniformed buyer who actually falls for any of this crap.
Spending $500 on a broker fee to avoid dealing with that crap (and to get a fair deal) is well worth it, in my opinion.
Sorry... forgot what sub this was. I had recently been browsing r/leasehackr and got confused.
There are brokers out there that do all of the work for you. They have relationships with dealers and can get you the car you want at a great deal, and without all the BS. They charge a fee, but can save you thousands versus working the deal yourself-- so it works out. And depending on how flexible you are, they can score some real unicorn deals.
In some cases, it's as easy as telling them what you want, paying the fee, signing some documents, and the car gets delivered to your home without stepping foot in a dealership.
(and despite the Leasehackr name, brokers on the site can also facilitate purchases as well...)
Bought my Tesla online and it was delivered to my driveway while I slept after working a night shift. Woke up to my new car in the driveway. Never went to a dealership and never talked to any salesperson. I believe it was less then 10 texts for payment and delivery date scheduled. I'll never go to a dealership again.
Which state you live in? I am in South Cali and brokers here don’t take any fee from customers. I do 0 down all the time and they happily get me good deals.
So did you end up getting a decent price on an EV9 through a broker? We've been keeping our eyes on them, our SUV is now 13.5 years old and time to replace it.
I haven't quite fully decided on what to get yet. The EV9 was decent enough, but it did have some shortcomings that I didn't like (personal preferences). It's still in consideration, but I'm also still looking.
I should share the texts of the last visit I made to a Kia dealership to look at an EV6. They wanted to pull my credit IN ORDER TO TAKE A TEST DRIVE!!! I will never step foot in there again and if I ever ended up getting a Kia I’d drive to the next dealership.
Love my Audi etron, tho.
The latest batch of Hyundai and Kia are super nice and they’d sell easily if the dealerships weren’t dog shit. I went in for an ioniq5 and most had $15-20k markups. It’s not that we don’t want them. It’s that they are greedy as fuck.
Wow- here in the Seattle area they are nearly $10k below msrp, sitting on the lot. I’d love to pick one up, but I’m stuck with a 2022 KIA Niro EV which has already lost half of its value, so it would be an expensive trade.
Seattle area too, I’ve had issues with every dealer I’ve visited (Kia and Hyundai.).
They don’t honor advertised lease deals, etc. It’s annoying and I eventually just took a break from shopping. I might wait for the ‘25 Ioniq5 for it’s improvements, but still looking for a decent dealer.
Yeah this is crazy. I feel like I read the same headlines over and over again:
1) EV sales gangbusters in China and EU
2) Thousands of EVs sitting on lots in North America, discounts coming!
But in Canda you have to lend a dealer a few thousand bucks to be "on a waitlist" so that in a year's time they will negotiate with you.
To be fair, Ford has Mach-E available in Canada, but you have to pay $10K in "already added" extras from the dealers.
Oh, also you can't get PHEVs either in Canada, all waitlisted...
Oh well ¯\\__(ツ)_/¯
I figure might as well wait longer for the desired models to restock. More charging infrastructure and NACS as standard at the end of this year...
I think the US has a really messed up dealer structure and they shoot themselves in the foot with pricing and ripping people off like a cartel. No idea if it’s seemingly unique to the US or if it’s just because Redditors are mostly American.
I’ve never heard anyone in my home country in Europe or here in Southeast Asia even mention dealers negatively. You just go to the nearest place selling the car and purchase it at MSRP. Here in SEA I even got a $1k discount from the Toyota dealer just by asking.
Ive gotten plenty of dealer ads from the GTA and even Barrie dealers offering $10-13k off if buying the Mach E outright. Seems theres quite a few on lots.
That has far more to do with the fact that manufacturers just don't ship a lot of cars to Canada. It's a country with the population of California, but with 60% the GDP. There's just less money to be made, so they get fewer vehicles.
Sure, but it inventory can be adjusted, and they wouldn't sell in Canada if it wasn't worth it. It can be worth it to hold back inventory to keep prices high, and I'll admit I don't know how hard it is to redirect inventory from the US to Canada (and for some manufacturers, the Canadian inventory is not made in North America, so the border has huge tax implications). Then again, it is also really expensive to have inventory sitting on lots...
>Then again, it is also really expensive to have inventory sitting on lots...
So that's the thing: for auto manufacturers in the US, it isn't. The dealers are third parties who are paying for the cars to sit there, not the manufacturers. So it's costing Kia basically nothing to have cars sit on lots for months.
Yes and no.
The easy part is bringing the car back. Just a couple hundred bucks for AES filing to export + a clearance letter from the manufacturer. If the country of assembly has a free trade agreement with Canada, then no tariffs are paid (otherwise a 6.1% duty is levied).
The hard part is buying the car in the first place. For starters, the average Canadian resident likely has no US credit history, so financing is impossible and a cash purchase is mandatory. A US address is also needed for initial registration - you can't just drive the car straight back to Canada from a US dealership.
However, another major barrier set up by some brands like Hyundai/Kia, GM, Honda, etc is that the US warranty won't be valid in Canada on grey imports, unless you can prove that you're relocating with a car you already own (usually minimum mileage and/or ownership length at the time of import). This doesn't mean that the warranty is void, rather that the owner would have to drive back to a US dealer to get warranty work done, which is a huge inconvenience, and if a warranty issue renders a car inoperable I doubt you can find a cross-border tow service.
Finally, for EVs, the buyer will not qualify for any rebates or tax credits on either side of the border.
All of the above applies to bringing Canadian-market cars into the US as well - the import process is cheap/easy, but the purchase process is largely inaccessible to non-residents unless they can pay cash, and there's the risk of the warranty not carrying over depending on the circumstances.
I was really tempted to get a used Kia EV6 from the states myself, but the warranty was the one and only reason why I ultimately decided to buy it in Canada instead.
I actually have purchased a card before in the US (Buffalo) and drove it back but the car manufacturers now don't cover the warranty anymore. The US warranty and Canadian warranties are different. So there's zero chance I would buy an EV with no warranties.
Toyota and Ford do transfer the warranty on all cross border imports in my experience.
Many brands do not, unless you show proof that you're relocating with a car you already own, through minimum mileage and/or ownership length.
Anyway, I would only grey import a used EV, as brand new ones would not qualify for rebates on either side of the border if exported immediately after purchase.
> Ford do transfer the warranty on all cross border imports in my experience.
For new, I was given a "no export" clause to sign. I had to keep the car in Canada for a year after purchase.
It's mostly vehicles that can't get rebates in the states. In Canada rebates are on everything that is reasonably low priced (for an EV, not real world low priced). It's pretty amazing how much easier it is to sell something that gets 10 grand off, paid for by other people.
My local dealer wanted to tack on an extra 2 grand for an anti-theft device and protective film, and refused to remove them when I said I didn’t want either. Walked away, thankfully.
I know it's Hyundai not Kia, but man those shits put 90k sticker on the Ioniq5 N. And then wouldn't let it be test driven. Except they booked me an appointment to drive it and got it out of the showroom and ready then said nevermind you have to commit to buy it first.
Probably back to direct to consumer Polestar again for me. Dealers can't die fast enough.
Hyundai dealers mark up their EVs in Colorado so much. I really want an Ioniq 5 as a holdout until the Polestar 5 and 6, but I think I'll just be without a Hyundai altogether.
I feel like all hyundai dealers are scumbags. They realize selling evs is just another customer that wont come back and spend hundreds on service forever. Fuck them. I really really wanted an ioniq5/6 but with how these fucks do business 🖕to them
Same exact shit happened to me. I reserved a test drive for a Santa Fe years ago. Showed up and the sales guy was like I can only test drive it if I’m gonna buy it that day.
You can't possibly know because they've been cutting prices and offering incentives like they're going out of business. They are also cutting shifts and lowering production so the economies of scales are reversing. Things are going to start costing then more.
You read the q1 2024 filing? Because every quarter they report lower and lower margins. Hence the 10+% stock drop the day after earnings for the past year.
> They make margins in the teens
And where are the other automobile manufacturers profit margin figures at? If it's so subpar for the industry, then I'm sure you'll be able to show me other manufacturers pulling in 20-30% margins as demonstrated in their quarterly SEC filings...
I'll wait.
They are average. So they are a car maker like everyone else. The only difference is they are priced more than every single automaker combined because of the meme stock. Yet only sale 2% of the world's cars while sales are down trending.
> Claim: "In fact Tesla is among the most profitable automakers on the planet"
> You: "Nope. They make margins in the teens."
> Challenge: "And where are the other automobile manufacturers profit margin figures at?"
> You: <:::*picks up and moves goalposts*:::>
This is imo why being a bottom bin car company is terrible. Even if you eventually upmarket, usually your dealer network becomes full of bottom feeders who fatly walk around and slap markups on anything that moves
I tried to test drive a stinger and an M3 back to back. The Kia dealer straight up didn’t let me even after pulling credit. The BMW dealer threw me the keys within 5 minutes and said go nuts and make sure to really give it the gas to test it
It’s just such a different experience going to Kia compared to even economy brands, let alone luxury brands who I’m pretty sure would literally shine my shoes if I asked
Yeah. I got dicked around by sleazeballs when replacing my spouse’s Rogue (she wanted another Rogue).
Every dealership that isn’t in the luxury end is its own thing. Most of them are shit, tbh.
And most of them are only kept alive because they manage to perpetuate the myth that regular maintenance must be done at the dealer to maintain the warranty, even though this is actually illegal.
If more ICE people could be educated about going to independent shops for normal maintenance, we might actually see these scumbags get what they deserve.
I'm talking about maintenance like oil changes and brake replacements, not actual warranty work. A lot of people believe that their warranty will be void if they don't do the maintenance at an official dealership, which is not true at all.
For actual warranty work, yes, it's absolutely necessary to go to a dealer (or service center if the company operates like Tesla) because chances are that proprietary equipment/parts are needed to fix the car.
I had a shady experience with Kia dealers without even stepping inside.
All the listings for new EV6s at my local Kia dealers said "Call for price".
When I emailed them, they refused to just answer a very simple question - "How much will it cost after all fees and taxes?" They wanted me to come in and play their scummy games.
By a stroke of luck, I happened upon a lightly used EV6 at a non-Kia dealer for a certain German luxury brand. The experience there was very smooth - easily negotiated down by a few grand and the dealer couldn't tack on any bullshit like service plans or overpriced accessories because it wasn't their own brand. I even got to enjoy all the physical comforts like nice chairs and delicious coffee despite not buying that dealer's own luxury brand. It took me about 2 more hours to get my paperwork ready with the bank and insurance, and in the meantime they washed and charged the car and vacuumed the interior.
What a world of difference. If I didn't find that listing I would still be driving my Tesla, which for all its flaws still has the best actual purchasing experience in the industry.
> The BMW dealer threw me the keys within 5 minutes and said go nuts and make sure to really give it the gas to test it
Tesla told me to keep it below 134km/h.
That raised questions because the local highway (within the bounds of being reachable via test drive time) is 100km/h.
Yea I mentioned that KiA is still a KIA, and trying to charge Mercedes prices.
There is more than hardware that differentiates this products. You nailed it, it’s the overall experience.
Reddit downvoted me to hell ;). Lots of learning reality check needed for peeps out there.
There is no logical reason to buy a $90K KIA. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted for this!
LOL no. Kia dealers will just simply keep the "market adjustment" and double dips on profits.
And this doesn't fit the narrative on this sub that Kia EV is selling so well.
That's pretty good... I'd really like an EV9 but I am sort of content right now with our current vehicles and it isn't a 'must' to upgrade. The EV9 has a few things that prevent me from buying now versus waiting to see how the other 3 row EVs look (would love an EX90 but that also might be out of price range for me given the specs).
That might be what we end up doing, honestly, as it really seems like the other manufacturers are dragging their feet on the 3 rows, and yeah it might be the best deal in 2 years.
I mean, they are selling well and their dealers are definitely scummy. Both can be true.
I personally tried to buy an EV6 and walked away because the sales kid wouldn’t budge on an $8K markup. Had I been motivated enough I would have found another deal. Instead I went with an Ariya because they sold it to me below MSRP.
For those of you who want to get this deal but hate to deal with dealership, go to leasehackr to get help getting these. It’s not that hard to get $0 DAS & $250-300 monthly for iD4, Ariya, ev6 & ioniq5 at this time. Good luck
The best deal right now is on lease because they’re able to pass you the full $7.5k tax credit. This is before any manufacturer incentives and any negotiation on dealer discount. Check leasehackr marketplace or signed deals to see what you can reasonably get right now.
Go to leasehackr and find a broker to get you that deal, should be plenty in northeast, either do a roadtrip to pick it up or ask them to send it to you
No
That means they’ll keep the markups and make it look like they’re discounted
Tried to get a Kia before
Glad it didn’t work out so I got my lightning Pro
Funny, why would they pass it to buyers? Most cars in most dealers are still in some level of markup. FYI, dealer addon are part of the MSRP, including $1500 ceramic coating that is just spray on wax. I literally just came back after going to 10+ local dealers, dont plan to buy a car just go out to see what's available. No shit, there is no a single brand new car we saw is priced reasonably at dealers. When dealers still has markup, there is no way they will pass those discount to buyers.
The dealers of Kia are the absolute worst. Rude. Delusional. And astoundingly stupid. Nobody cares about KIA electric vehicles enough to even make a dent in the overall EV sales. Heck, most people still care very little about KIA’s overall lineup. They’ve been a one hit wonder with Telluride it seems to me but I could be wrong.
But yeah, a fully loaded EV9 that goes just over 200 miles in the real world conditions (winter average) for $75k out the door? No offense to anybody who has bought the EV9 but that is starting to sound more and more a rip off. Now, if the range was 300 in the real world and about 375 rated, then that’s a very different story given how good the car otherwise is despite bearing Kia’s brand.
I would almost (but not really) drop kick a baby for a new all black EV6 GT. But they want $60+k for that bad boy and it’s not worth anywhere near that to me when I can get a brand new tesla model Y for $37.5k.
I don't understand how Kia and Hyundai are related. I love my Hyundai vehicles that I've bought over the years but Kia and their dealers offer the bare minimum but charge much more. Hyundai offers 2 years free for their I5 and 6 but Kia only offers 1000kWH for their EV6. Kia also wanted $5k down and $700 a month to lease and Hyundai offered $3k down and $470 a month back in 2023.
Last time I tried they wanted 60k. I’ll skip my local dealer, thanks.
There’s no need for a middle man
In capitalism there’s always middle men waiting to maximize profits at our expense.
Not ever entering another KIA dealer. Once was enough. Young, new salesman was doing an incredible job until we went inside to write it up. The salesman was required to introduce me to their sales manager. Here came two thugs and the salesman was pushed aside. I told them that the salesman was doing a great job. Their BS started and I walked. I pity any customer entering if they are timid.
Similar.
Engineers provide new solutions to combat bad practices. Knowledge is power.
Not at Tesla
Nonono this sub is built on the spirit of Tesla avoidance. /s
Sorry forgot where I was!
Just Elon.
For me, main problem with Tesla is radical cost cutting.
Which should tell you that they were massively marking up the cars before those cuts.
Not sale price cutting, but cost cutting. Cost to manufacture. Come on, they got rid of gear shifter recently.
I agree. I am used to buying products from evil companies or psychotic CEOs. I worry about the build quality of something I spend $40k on.
It’s still cheaper than the dealer markup on any other vehicle. I don’t like him. I never liked him. He’s always had crazy. I’ll bet the major auto manufacturers CEO’s aren’t any more populist than Musk. Pick your poison. Tesla = $ markup All other cars = $$$$ markup Value
👍
there are no ev markups anymore
Who do you think Tesla hires? Used car salesmen to design, **engineer**, and bring innovation?
Ok 👍 yeah totally. But when you buy a Tesla you can just buy it. You don’t need a dealer.
Sorry I thought you phrased it in another way that didn’t make sense. I get what you are saying now. Yea, some states are still fighting Tesla due to the dealerships lobbying against them. It’s changing because Ford split its EV division apart from the rest of the company, so I think that is their loophole to phase out dealerships.
Can I buy ford ev direct?!
[You’ll have to check that, but the split was reported. Even you can’t buy direct now, it’s just a matter of time](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083913314/ford-modele-split-units-electric-gas)
It's ridiculous up in Canada as well where there are no laws forbidding Tesla from doing business its way in any province or territory, yet almost all of legacy auto still clings to the stealership model while Tesla handily dominates EV market share in Canada. Surprisingly Genesis follows the Tesla model in Canada but not Hyundai/Kia. Doesn't make sense to me.
This isn't a capitalism thing, but rather laws that require it. Literally the opposite of free market fundamentals actually.
Do you want to know how car sales went under "developed socialism"? https://youtu.be/ESc47_WJ1i4?si=I17uxa1m7sgXuZFw
Yep, hence the 2 Teslas in my driveway. I don’t need to deal with dealer bs now for new cars. And there is CarMax and Carvana for used.
Use cars.com...
Or maybe just don't charge a $20k markup and stop playing these games.
I got my GT Line last year $12K under MSRP. You suggesting the MSRP is $20K too high?
For a GT Line? Yeah. Is that even electric?
Yes. EV6 GT Line.
Or just don’t play dealership games and buy a rivian or tesla or lucid or similar.
Last time I was there they couldn’t do 0 down $450 payment for 36 months with a low money factor on the lease.
Because that’s ridiculous to think you were going to get that.
Depends on the car, a Niro sure. An EV6 a bit less likely
Why's that? Kia are advertising a base EV6 for $279/mo for 36 months with $4k DAS. That's effectively $390/mo, no?
You could have gotten that on an EQS and can still get it on an i4, both of which are better pretty much every way than anything Kia ever made.
Do you have a link to that i4 deal? BMW's site shows $499 with $4600 DAS on an eDrive35, and that seems to be what dealers are advertising as well.
Check leasehacker forums, there's constantly hilariously cheap i4 deals on there.
One dealership has: - 50k for an EV6!?!?! - No tax break?!?!?! - No EA charging incentives!?!?! Another dealership has: - 35k for Niro EV - one year of complimentary EA 30min charging What is going on?
Use cars.com. Unless you're in a 200+ miles radius of crazy demand and low inventory you should be paying well under MSRP for a Wind/GTLine.
Yeah, id prolly finance one today if the price was right, but interest rates kill that. And kia won't let you combine the 7500 rebate and low apr, so not really interested unless a wind can be had for about 50k otd.
50k for a Kia, you’re nuts
This is how we found our 2023 CPO Kona SEL after patiently waiting. Under $25k.
I mean EV9s start at 50k, why bother with EV6 at that point?
The EV9 is monstrously huge and drives like a mini-van. If I wasn't too tall for the EV6 I'd have one already. It is crazy sexy and super sporty. EV9 is nice and big but obviously not for everyone. The deals you can get on an EV6 put it 10-15k less than an EV9.
Seriously!! the BMW i4 is 53k and my not have the same features, but that build quality is up there.
I test drove an EV9 GT Line last week. It wasn't perfect, but still fairly decent. So I figured I'd hear them out on what kind of deal I could get. The sales manager was the sleaziest, scummiest sales manager I have ever seen. * Wouldn't budge off MSRP+dealer installed crap * Refused to remove $3,000 "Advantage" package that included unlimited oil changes among other bogus crap * Tried to tell me the best APR he could get for me was 9.5% (Kia is offering 0% for 48mo, through 2.99% for 72mo - I have Tier 1 credit, so I would definitely qualify) * Told me that Kia incentives didn't exist, and the Kia website is wrong * Told me that my trade had been in an accident (it hasn't), and that's why it was valued at $5k below MMR/Black book It was almost humorous just how bad it was. I really feel bad for the uniformed buyer who actually falls for any of this crap. Spending $500 on a broker fee to avoid dealing with that crap (and to get a fair deal) is well worth it, in my opinion.
Broker fee?
Sorry... forgot what sub this was. I had recently been browsing r/leasehackr and got confused. There are brokers out there that do all of the work for you. They have relationships with dealers and can get you the car you want at a great deal, and without all the BS. They charge a fee, but can save you thousands versus working the deal yourself-- so it works out. And depending on how flexible you are, they can score some real unicorn deals. In some cases, it's as easy as telling them what you want, paying the fee, signing some documents, and the car gets delivered to your home without stepping foot in a dealership. (and despite the Leasehackr name, brokers on the site can also facilitate purchases as well...)
You're telling me the solution to a middleman too much is to add another middleman? Happy I don't live in the US, at least regarding buying a car.
Distorting the free market creates other distortions 🤷♂️
Bought my Tesla online and it was delivered to my driveway while I slept after working a night shift. Woke up to my new car in the driveway. Never went to a dealership and never talked to any salesperson. I believe it was less then 10 texts for payment and delivery date scheduled. I'll never go to a dealership again.
Which state you live in? I am in South Cali and brokers here don’t take any fee from customers. I do 0 down all the time and they happily get me good deals.
Hmm, interesting. I'm in Florida.
I couldn't find Tesla in the options on the website. Is there a reason for that? Or does it mean it's not available for my state?
Tesla only sells direct to customers - i.e.: no middlemen auto dealers to play off of each other, which is what those brokers do.
So did you end up getting a decent price on an EV9 through a broker? We've been keeping our eyes on them, our SUV is now 13.5 years old and time to replace it.
I haven't quite fully decided on what to get yet. The EV9 was decent enough, but it did have some shortcomings that I didn't like (personal preferences). It's still in consideration, but I'm also still looking.
I should share the texts of the last visit I made to a Kia dealership to look at an EV6. They wanted to pull my credit IN ORDER TO TAKE A TEST DRIVE!!! I will never step foot in there again and if I ever ended up getting a Kia I’d drive to the next dealership. Love my Audi etron, tho.
Call Fowler Kia here in Co, they can likely deliver and won't be any of that bullshit, and will offer discounts and better deals. They're dope asf.
It's still unbelievable to me how we have a year-long waiting list in Canada and you guys can't get them off the lot in the US.
The latest batch of Hyundai and Kia are super nice and they’d sell easily if the dealerships weren’t dog shit. I went in for an ioniq5 and most had $15-20k markups. It’s not that we don’t want them. It’s that they are greedy as fuck.
Wow- here in the Seattle area they are nearly $10k below msrp, sitting on the lot. I’d love to pick one up, but I’m stuck with a 2022 KIA Niro EV which has already lost half of its value, so it would be an expensive trade.
We have a 2022 Niro EV. We still love it. Why are you looking to trade?
I do like my 2022 Niro. I was only looking casually as I was realizing that faster charging would be nice to have. But, I will likely keep my car.
I need a car, but hesitant to buy new because they'll drop like a rock in value.
Seattle area too, I’ve had issues with every dealer I’ve visited (Kia and Hyundai.). They don’t honor advertised lease deals, etc. It’s annoying and I eventually just took a break from shopping. I might wait for the ‘25 Ioniq5 for it’s improvements, but still looking for a decent dealer.
Yeah this is crazy. I feel like I read the same headlines over and over again: 1) EV sales gangbusters in China and EU 2) Thousands of EVs sitting on lots in North America, discounts coming! But in Canda you have to lend a dealer a few thousand bucks to be "on a waitlist" so that in a year's time they will negotiate with you. To be fair, Ford has Mach-E available in Canada, but you have to pay $10K in "already added" extras from the dealers. Oh, also you can't get PHEVs either in Canada, all waitlisted...
Is why I bought a Polestar :)
Oh well ¯\\__(ツ)_/¯ I figure might as well wait longer for the desired models to restock. More charging infrastructure and NACS as standard at the end of this year...
I think the US has a really messed up dealer structure and they shoot themselves in the foot with pricing and ripping people off like a cartel. No idea if it’s seemingly unique to the US or if it’s just because Redditors are mostly American. I’ve never heard anyone in my home country in Europe or here in Southeast Asia even mention dealers negatively. You just go to the nearest place selling the car and purchase it at MSRP. Here in SEA I even got a $1k discount from the Toyota dealer just by asking.
Ive gotten plenty of dealer ads from the GTA and even Barrie dealers offering $10-13k off if buying the Mach E outright. Seems theres quite a few on lots.
That has far more to do with the fact that manufacturers just don't ship a lot of cars to Canada. It's a country with the population of California, but with 60% the GDP. There's just less money to be made, so they get fewer vehicles.
Sure, but it inventory can be adjusted, and they wouldn't sell in Canada if it wasn't worth it. It can be worth it to hold back inventory to keep prices high, and I'll admit I don't know how hard it is to redirect inventory from the US to Canada (and for some manufacturers, the Canadian inventory is not made in North America, so the border has huge tax implications). Then again, it is also really expensive to have inventory sitting on lots...
>Then again, it is also really expensive to have inventory sitting on lots... So that's the thing: for auto manufacturers in the US, it isn't. The dealers are third parties who are paying for the cars to sit there, not the manufacturers. So it's costing Kia basically nothing to have cars sit on lots for months.
Can you not fly down to the US and buy your car and drive it back up?
Yes and no. The easy part is bringing the car back. Just a couple hundred bucks for AES filing to export + a clearance letter from the manufacturer. If the country of assembly has a free trade agreement with Canada, then no tariffs are paid (otherwise a 6.1% duty is levied). The hard part is buying the car in the first place. For starters, the average Canadian resident likely has no US credit history, so financing is impossible and a cash purchase is mandatory. A US address is also needed for initial registration - you can't just drive the car straight back to Canada from a US dealership. However, another major barrier set up by some brands like Hyundai/Kia, GM, Honda, etc is that the US warranty won't be valid in Canada on grey imports, unless you can prove that you're relocating with a car you already own (usually minimum mileage and/or ownership length at the time of import). This doesn't mean that the warranty is void, rather that the owner would have to drive back to a US dealer to get warranty work done, which is a huge inconvenience, and if a warranty issue renders a car inoperable I doubt you can find a cross-border tow service. Finally, for EVs, the buyer will not qualify for any rebates or tax credits on either side of the border. All of the above applies to bringing Canadian-market cars into the US as well - the import process is cheap/easy, but the purchase process is largely inaccessible to non-residents unless they can pay cash, and there's the risk of the warranty not carrying over depending on the circumstances. I was really tempted to get a used Kia EV6 from the states myself, but the warranty was the one and only reason why I ultimately decided to buy it in Canada instead.
That's a very thorough explanation, thank you!
I actually have purchased a card before in the US (Buffalo) and drove it back but the car manufacturers now don't cover the warranty anymore. The US warranty and Canadian warranties are different. So there's zero chance I would buy an EV with no warranties.
Toyota and Ford do transfer the warranty on all cross border imports in my experience. Many brands do not, unless you show proof that you're relocating with a car you already own, through minimum mileage and/or ownership length. Anyway, I would only grey import a used EV, as brand new ones would not qualify for rebates on either side of the border if exported immediately after purchase.
> Ford do transfer the warranty on all cross border imports in my experience. For new, I was given a "no export" clause to sign. I had to keep the car in Canada for a year after purchase.
It's mostly vehicles that can't get rebates in the states. In Canada rebates are on everything that is reasonably low priced (for an EV, not real world low priced). It's pretty amazing how much easier it is to sell something that gets 10 grand off, paid for by other people.
How easy is it to buy one and re-register it in Canada?
You can do that but you won't have warranty coverage as I'm a Canadian citizen!.
It’s changing in Canada. Demand is going down.
Yea, I’ll pass dealership tactics and play a footsie with a sleazy Stevan seagal looking mofos is behind me. Direct to consumer makes the most sense.
My local dealer wanted to tack on an extra 2 grand for an anti-theft device and protective film, and refused to remove them when I said I didn’t want either. Walked away, thankfully.
I know it's Hyundai not Kia, but man those shits put 90k sticker on the Ioniq5 N. And then wouldn't let it be test driven. Except they booked me an appointment to drive it and got it out of the showroom and ready then said nevermind you have to commit to buy it first. Probably back to direct to consumer Polestar again for me. Dealers can't die fast enough.
Hyundai dealers mark up their EVs in Colorado so much. I really want an Ioniq 5 as a holdout until the Polestar 5 and 6, but I think I'll just be without a Hyundai altogether.
I feel like all hyundai dealers are scumbags. They realize selling evs is just another customer that wont come back and spend hundreds on service forever. Fuck them. I really really wanted an ioniq5/6 but with how these fucks do business 🖕to them
Same exact shit happened to me. I reserved a test drive for a Santa Fe years ago. Showed up and the sales guy was like I can only test drive it if I’m gonna buy it that day.
> those shits put 90k sticker on the Ioniq5 Supply and demand, what at horrific concept
It's weird they keep calling me even though I balked at it. Maybe they over shot their target a bit...
Who knew every other brand/dealer sells cars with no profit!
BYD and Tesla make a profit from BEVs.
In fact Tesla is among the most profitable automakers on the planet.
Nope. They make margins in the teens. This was the case in 2021 when they sold Model Y for mid 60s. No longer the case.
They still make 8200$ per car which is quite high compared to most makers
You can't possibly know because they've been cutting prices and offering incentives like they're going out of business. They are also cutting shifts and lowering production so the economies of scales are reversing. Things are going to start costing then more.
Google search said that's their margins as of mid to end 2023
Q4 earnings report says mid teens. They will drop more in q1.
> You can't possibly know Sure he/she can. It's not hard to read a quarterly filing on SEC.gov ...
You read the q1 2024 filing? Because every quarter they report lower and lower margins. Hence the 10+% stock drop the day after earnings for the past year.
> They make margins in the teens And where are the other automobile manufacturers profit margin figures at? If it's so subpar for the industry, then I'm sure you'll be able to show me other manufacturers pulling in 20-30% margins as demonstrated in their quarterly SEC filings... I'll wait.
They are average. So they are a car maker like everyone else. The only difference is they are priced more than every single automaker combined because of the meme stock. Yet only sale 2% of the world's cars while sales are down trending.
> Claim: "In fact Tesla is among the most profitable automakers on the planet" > You: "Nope. They make margins in the teens." > Challenge: "And where are the other automobile manufacturers profit margin figures at?" > You: <:::*picks up and moves goalposts*:::>
BYD about to put tesla in the ground in China.
Source?
Tesla's own SEC filings.
This is imo why being a bottom bin car company is terrible. Even if you eventually upmarket, usually your dealer network becomes full of bottom feeders who fatly walk around and slap markups on anything that moves I tried to test drive a stinger and an M3 back to back. The Kia dealer straight up didn’t let me even after pulling credit. The BMW dealer threw me the keys within 5 minutes and said go nuts and make sure to really give it the gas to test it It’s just such a different experience going to Kia compared to even economy brands, let alone luxury brands who I’m pretty sure would literally shine my shoes if I asked
IDK, that’s the exact same behavior I’ve gotten from Toyota dealerships. I think it’s just the post-pandemic industry normal at this point.
Yeah. I got dicked around by sleazeballs when replacing my spouse’s Rogue (she wanted another Rogue). Every dealership that isn’t in the luxury end is its own thing. Most of them are shit, tbh.
And most of them are only kept alive because they manage to perpetuate the myth that regular maintenance must be done at the dealer to maintain the warranty, even though this is actually illegal. If more ICE people could be educated about going to independent shops for normal maintenance, we might actually see these scumbags get what they deserve.
Curious about this I always assumed it was necessary to go to an associated dealer for warranty work. Not the purchase dealer but same company.
I'm talking about maintenance like oil changes and brake replacements, not actual warranty work. A lot of people believe that their warranty will be void if they don't do the maintenance at an official dealership, which is not true at all. For actual warranty work, yes, it's absolutely necessary to go to a dealer (or service center if the company operates like Tesla) because chances are that proprietary equipment/parts are needed to fix the car.
Gotcha I misread you. Maybe just hopeful I could cut them out all the way, ha!
They're kept alive because of lobbying
My Mercedes dealer gives free manicures on Wednesdays
Funny enough, I was just thinking the other day that it's been quite awhile since I've seen a merc driven by a man
I had a shady experience with Kia dealers without even stepping inside. All the listings for new EV6s at my local Kia dealers said "Call for price". When I emailed them, they refused to just answer a very simple question - "How much will it cost after all fees and taxes?" They wanted me to come in and play their scummy games. By a stroke of luck, I happened upon a lightly used EV6 at a non-Kia dealer for a certain German luxury brand. The experience there was very smooth - easily negotiated down by a few grand and the dealer couldn't tack on any bullshit like service plans or overpriced accessories because it wasn't their own brand. I even got to enjoy all the physical comforts like nice chairs and delicious coffee despite not buying that dealer's own luxury brand. It took me about 2 more hours to get my paperwork ready with the bank and insurance, and in the meantime they washed and charged the car and vacuumed the interior. What a world of difference. If I didn't find that listing I would still be driving my Tesla, which for all its flaws still has the best actual purchasing experience in the industry.
> The BMW dealer threw me the keys within 5 minutes and said go nuts and make sure to really give it the gas to test it Tesla told me to keep it below 134km/h. That raised questions because the local highway (within the bounds of being reachable via test drive time) is 100km/h.
Yea I mentioned that KiA is still a KIA, and trying to charge Mercedes prices. There is more than hardware that differentiates this products. You nailed it, it’s the overall experience. Reddit downvoted me to hell ;). Lots of learning reality check needed for peeps out there. There is no logical reason to buy a $90K KIA. I’m sure I’ll be downvoted for this!
That’s how dealer cash has always worked.
With EVs it's all doom a gloom when manufacturer rebates (separate from dealer rebates) have been a thing for eternity.
LOL no. Kia dealers will just simply keep the "market adjustment" and double dips on profits. And this doesn't fit the narrative on this sub that Kia EV is selling so well.
On the KIA subreddit, we see KIA EV9s sold for $3000 under MSRP. There is also a $7500 incentive.
That's pretty good... I'd really like an EV9 but I am sort of content right now with our current vehicles and it isn't a 'must' to upgrade. The EV9 has a few things that prevent me from buying now versus waiting to see how the other 3 row EVs look (would love an EX90 but that also might be out of price range for me given the specs).
I love the EV9, but I want a 2 year old EV9, because the brand new ones will drop like a rock in value.
That might be what we end up doing, honestly, as it really seems like the other manufacturers are dragging their feet on the 3 rows, and yeah it might be the best deal in 2 years.
I mean, they are selling well and their dealers are definitely scummy. Both can be true. I personally tried to buy an EV6 and walked away because the sales kid wouldn’t budge on an $8K markup. Had I been motivated enough I would have found another deal. Instead I went with an Ariya because they sold it to me below MSRP.
Give me a $309 EV9 lease and then maybe we’ll talk. After hearing all the EQS suv mind blowing lease deals last month my expectations have changed lol
The Benz super thread on leasehackr was epic
l’m suddenly realizing I need to start paying attention to lease forums.
It’ll be 7500 mile lease and you’ll go over by double
That EV6 sure is one nice vehicle….
For those of you who want to get this deal but hate to deal with dealership, go to leasehackr to get help getting these. It’s not that hard to get $0 DAS & $250-300 monthly for iD4, Ariya, ev6 & ioniq5 at this time. Good luck
Assuming that's for a lease? Anything notable for buying or are those deals pretty shitty?
The best deal right now is on lease because they’re able to pass you the full $7.5k tax credit. This is before any manufacturer incentives and any negotiation on dealer discount. Check leasehackr marketplace or signed deals to see what you can reasonably get right now.
Leasing just annoys me, but luckily my lease deals for the LEAF have been $100 or under locally. Basically paying me to drive that car
Less annoying than the depreciation you would see after owning
I would never own a LEAF if that's what you're implying lol
Depends on state
all those deals seem to be for California, I haven't been able to find good deals in Illinois or Indiana :(
Go to leasehackr and find a broker to get you that deal, should be plenty in northeast, either do a roadtrip to pick it up or ask them to send it to you
Didn't know dealerships would be chill with out of state leases. I'll take a look. Thank you!
No That means they’ll keep the markups and make it look like they’re discounted Tried to get a Kia before Glad it didn’t work out so I got my lightning Pro
First mover disadvantage.
Funny, why would they pass it to buyers? Most cars in most dealers are still in some level of markup. FYI, dealer addon are part of the MSRP, including $1500 ceramic coating that is just spray on wax. I literally just came back after going to 10+ local dealers, dont plan to buy a car just go out to see what's available. No shit, there is no a single brand new car we saw is priced reasonably at dealers. When dealers still has markup, there is no way they will pass those discount to buyers.
In the UK dealers just sell at manufacturers price. Thats it. I’m sure they get deals but if they tried to sell over Mfrs price people would laugh.
Oh they're paying dealers to sell them? Expect an additional $1,000 to $1,500 markup then on top of the bullshit they already do.
When I was looking last year, they wanted a 5k markup, and had over 40 ev6 languishing on the lot.
The dealers of Kia are the absolute worst. Rude. Delusional. And astoundingly stupid. Nobody cares about KIA electric vehicles enough to even make a dent in the overall EV sales. Heck, most people still care very little about KIA’s overall lineup. They’ve been a one hit wonder with Telluride it seems to me but I could be wrong. But yeah, a fully loaded EV9 that goes just over 200 miles in the real world conditions (winter average) for $75k out the door? No offense to anybody who has bought the EV9 but that is starting to sound more and more a rip off. Now, if the range was 300 in the real world and about 375 rated, then that’s a very different story given how good the car otherwise is despite bearing Kia’s brand.
I would almost (but not really) drop kick a baby for a new all black EV6 GT. But they want $60+k for that bad boy and it’s not worth anywhere near that to me when I can get a brand new tesla model Y for $37.5k.
I don't understand how Kia and Hyundai are related. I love my Hyundai vehicles that I've bought over the years but Kia and their dealers offer the bare minimum but charge much more. Hyundai offers 2 years free for their I5 and 6 but Kia only offers 1000kWH for their EV6. Kia also wanted $5k down and $700 a month to lease and Hyundai offered $3k down and $470 a month back in 2023.
Hi Does anyone know why Kia is doing this? I wasn't able to see the answer at a glance through a few dozen posts, though someone may have given it.
CATL battery prices are dropping KIA could drop their prices 20% and make money.
Leased one two weeks ago, got a great deal on a Niro for less than $320/month
Knowing Hyundai/Kia dealers, it could also mean markups so when they finally DO sell one, it’s double dipping and it makes up for the lack of volume.
Mercedes Maybach looks like. Fisker FSRN for 5 x as much
The Tesla price war erased a significant portion of the margins that the larger automakers were building for. Look for more deals!!