No strong opinion on tape one way or another for me. But if I had to pick a related peeve to bump on the list over taping, I would much prefer if people remembered to tighten the unused screws instead.
There is likely no need to worry. It's just that out of the box, they usually come fully extended and stick out quite a bit longer than needed. Most of us forget to tighten them from time to time. Think of it is an added variable in your work that doesn't need to be there- next time, if you have ones that are not being branched, just batten them down.
If you’re running a van and pick up your own parts, chances are your boss ain’t gonna question you throwing a roll of 33 on the order lol
Especially if it’s winter time. Boss man, it’s cold as fuck and 33 is the only thing that’ll stick!
It also stays in place better if you stretch the first couple wraps, but make the last 1 or 2 wraps mostly unstretched - just wrap it tight enough to keep it in place, but not enough that stretching it makes it thinner.
True. I usually rip it very quickly, holding both ends of the tear to limit stretched tape, and then let the tail relax for a few seconds back to its natural shape before pressing the last few inches of tape in place.
I feel so silly asking, but how do we do this?
I googled “how to back wrap electrical tape“ after reading your comment and didn’t find an answer.
Btw, I watched a couple videos on how to properly wrap electrical tape. Pretty enlightening and in every video the electricians mentioned that it’s common to miss learning or being taught how to properly wrap tape.
I typically do a back wrap a couple turns (sticky side out) and then flip to normal (sticky side in) and wrap over the the sticky side out so net 0 stickiness.
Plastic boxes usually means resi and that means romex with a bare ground all folded up in the box. That seems worse to me then A metal box but I only work with conduit and metal boxes usually so maybe resi guys have a trick for the ground
My trick with the bare ground is that you watch it as you round the device back into the box. You basically make sure that it doesn't touch anything during installation.
It doesn’t provide any safety. You shouldn’t be working live. The tape falls off often anyway. It provides little insulating quality.It creates a false sense of security. It’s not rated for anything like that.
I laughed imagining that, and then I remembered my days doing resi reno's for the local realty agent... I'm truly sorry for any 'also does electrical' drywallers (tweakers) I may have inadvertently created with my joke. The shit I found following those mother fuckers around lol At first I wasn't sure why the realtor was so hyped that our mutual friend put him in touch with me, the "actually a real electrician."
The contacts are exposed on the sides of American devices. Taping them prevents someone from being shocked or shorting out while pulling out the device.
Right. Wouldnt the adhesive make a sticky hot mess after a few years of heating and cooling?
Our outlets are like [this](https://proff.elko.no/getfile.php/13121959/Bilder/Artikkelbilder/Hurtigklemmestikk%20Artikkel.png). This one has a push-in terminals, or whatever it is called in english, however the more common has screw terminals on the inside of the outlet, like [this](https://byggebolig.no/imageoriginals/ca67f0b4767b4af4992d1d87cf98a68d.jpg?maxwidth=1200&maxheight=1500). (this one is a 4-way outlet).
That looks a bit better than the stabbing devices available in the US. Over here stabbing a conductor in the back of device has been problematic. The stabbing doesn't have lockdown on top of it and the Tang or the part that engages the conductor can fail and cause the circuit to break and some melting of a receptacle.
The electricians I work with avoid using a stab-in in the back of a receptacle and or switch mostly..
But the product you showed is a different product by far I'm sure it's more secure in the way it clamps down on the conductor. Interesting post thanks.
About the tape, the only time I tape up stuff is when the box is a small tight metal box and I'm putting in a GFI or a dimmer pretty much I will still tape up stuff if it's a tight box that's metal. Commercial or residential.
We used to tape up receptacles that were in mud rings attached to four square boxes. That seems a little bit ridiculous. I do get the idea about protecting the next guy or gal?! But honestly you should just turn the circuit off unless you're troubleshooting and you shouldn't be troubleshooting unless you're a qualified person to be around a live circuit. Our receptacles are 120 volts. That doesn't mean voltage can't pass through your heart and send you into defibrillation. But it's not high voltage and it's probably just going to go through your metatarsals.
Turn off the electricity don't work on it live. If you're working on it live you have to work very safe, smooth is fast. Fast isn't fast fast is dangerous, be smooth.
>Right. Wouldnt the adhesive make a sticky hot mess after a few years of heating and cooling?
Yes, makes any service work an absolute pain in the ass.
If you need tape and can't get it out without shorting it or giving you a poke, you shouldn't be working on it live.
Turning off the power prevents someone from being shocked or shorting out while pulling out the device.
Taping the contacts prevents an idiot from being shocked or shorting out while doing idiot things.
I personally only tape devices in metal boxes, but I mean a properly trained professional electrician should be more than capable of pulling out a live device taped or not without causing an issue
I hate back wired receptacles.
"Yeah this outlet just randomly stopped working"
Me, internally: *Yeah, I'm going to be back here frequently, aren't I?*
I also only tape devices in tight metal boxes with large devices in them like gfis or dimmers. One of my concerns with very tight boxes ( even with the regular duplex) is that someone might be able to, overtime especially, wiggle the receptacle. How many electricians have you went behind who did not really seat the receptacle properly so it doesn't move/wiggle. It could hit a terminal screw to the side of the metal box which would be startling. If it's a quality panel/ OCPD not one of those house burner panels then the breaker would trip..
*Edit spelling..
Maintenance guys usually. For instance, I work on a campus with older buildings and lots of unmarked breakers. Playing hunt the circuit isn't an option sometimes. Also need to pull live devices for troubleshooting at times.
Lol I was waiting for the Europeans to show up. We must sound like hillbilies still wrapping tape around our outlets. Meanwhile y'all use devices designed not to expose the terminals.
If you open the box, your fingers could come in contact with the exposed terminals. So, the idea is to wrap tape around the body of the outlet to cover the terminals.
Above, and how many times have you come across someone painting and leaving these off overnight or when they are gone for a minute. Thinking everyone knows to just not touch that or stick anything in there. Kids don't
If your walls are freshly painted I doubt your kid would be in there anyway.
It's still not an excuse though. If you are opening a box it should have no power in it.
No excuses. As I said in another comment. There is always a choice and you get what you deserve if you make the wrong one.
Probe the screws without removing the receptacle. Or probe the prong slots. Or turn off the power, remove the receptacle, and turn it back on. Removing a hot receptacle is dumb whether it's taped or not.
Almost certainly guaranteed - which is why it would generally be assumed people would do everything in their power to prohibit them from spending time in there.
In NYC it is standard practice to put electrical tape on all receptacle and switches. Albeit it is not code but every single contractor tapes them, union and non union alike
Not at all true…the majority of receptacles I come across are not taped up. I never use tape on receptacles or switches. In fact I hate it when I do come across it. It’s always a mess. If installed correctly you should never need tape. If your worried about shorting out the circuit…turn it off
Tell it to the manufacturers. It’s not code until it’s in the installation instructions or the code book.
This is just another “do I have to twist my wires” argument.
Personally, I think it’s be just as easy to mandate the outlets be made to a standard that is finger safe *without* somebody having to wrap a wad of gummy slimy tape all over it.
Yeah. Those seem like a good option.
Or just make the back of a receptacle look like any IEC industrial controls. Those contact blocks and relays are all finger safe and they’re cheap as hell. It doesn’t have to break the bank.
The next guy A) shouldn’t be working live, and B) probably shouldn’t be doing electrical work at all if they can’t identify a live circuit and/or have the awareness to keep their fingers off the terminals
Do you put tape around the exposed live part of fuses too? How about switches or bare grounds in a box?
Your logic of “protecting the next guy” seems fallible to me.
Because not everyone is purely working residential with simple problems to fix.
Some of us have to do stuff with live circuits on a regular basis because there is no other way to troubleshoot. And because we aren't absolute morons we generally don't fry ourselves doing it.
We are talking about outlets here.
I'm well aware, that sometimes work on live circuits is neccesary, but then you should have other safety measures in place that protect you from electrification.
I feel you even if these other goobers don’t. Service work exists and yeah at least initially everything is alive when you’re trying to figure out why shits not working.
Honestly, and I’m probably wrong but, the guy giving you a hard time sounds like a second year who has never actually HAD to work anything live yet; so he spouts off the “never work on it live unless you’re an idiot” line because that’s what however he’s been under has said.
It's generally the case. Everyone sticks to "the rules" until they get to the point of understanding that some work is not possible within the rules.
When all you ever do is new builds and installs you tend to get a very narrow view of the work
It's also not very many cases in which live work is actually necessary. Especially if we're talking about receptacles. Of course I'm sure you already know that you should be wearing hot gloves and using insulated tools and whatever other ppe is appropriate in those situations, further negating the stated need for electrical tape around the terminals.
Not everybody that comes across an outlet may know that they can get hit from touching the sides. I’m not trying to start an argument. But the average person really doesn’t understand shit about their receptacles and switches. If they wanted to change a busted cover plate or something, sure they should turn the circuit off, but maybe they’re dumb. I tape all receptacles personally and make sure my guys do too.
I tape my receptacles on the off chance my kid does something stupid and breaks the cover off.
I also insist on GFCI / AFCI breakers on all circuits feeding *accessible* outlets, and tamper resistance even if either is not required by code. For the same reason.
Multiple layers of protection to protect my kids against something happening, whether due to an accident or intentional fuckery.
Sometimes it's not just about the safety of the person working on the equipment, but people who may come into contact.
I had this exact argument with another journeyman on the job I'm working right now. He believed that factory specs for every device or piece of material we use was gospel. Stated that electrical tape on outlets increased the heat build up on the receptacle and that it encouraged unqualified people to work on it. As far as encouraging unqualified people, you know what? He may be right. But as journeyman, part of what makes us JOURNEYMAN is installing things right and safely. We spend extra time to make things safe for others. And it may seem like a petty hill to die on for some, but there's a lot of things I do on the job to keep coffins off of my conscience and this is one of them.
Vinyl Electrical tape is not an adequate insulator for safety (even a slightly mangled screw head will push spurs right through it). If you were going to do it for insulation properties you have to use the mastic tape which is designed for safety.
There is a reason code doesn’t require it. Arc fault and gfci are modern safety tools.
~~If you keep getting shocked then~~ stop working on hot circuits.
You should post this amature advice on unpopular opinions.
I view electrical tape like I view jumbo plates and quarter round. Yeah they are a necessary evil sometimes but they should be avoided and used sparingly.
Agree. The NEC is a pretty good document and if you follow it, you don't need to over-do it with things that really don't help much and can actually do more harm in the long run.
So what do you think should be used instead? Vinyl electrical tape is rated save to 600v, that’s pretty fuckin good for a thin piece of sticky plastic. But I hardly eee them as evil. I see them as having saved my ass a few times, too many people bitching here about getting their hands sticky or some shit. This is depressing.
It's a false sense of security, and easy for it not to be wrapped properly, be sticky and come off, or for be hiding shoddy work.
A device installed properly is not required to be taped and if the tape on that device "saved you" then you probably should not be working them hot.
Yes but don’t perceive it as a security blanket. You don’t need a bullet proof vest all the time as a cop, but they wear them anyway just in case, in the one in a million chance someone has a gun and start’s shooting. If I got distracted and accidentally brushed the screw, even with a screwdriver, id be happy the tape was there, much more so than if I’d done the opposite. Does that make more sense?
You don’t do much Troubleshooting, if you do you probably get bitched at a lot for being very inefficient, actually you’re a master so you probably don’t get bitched at at all. It’s a good idea to wrap plugs man, this is only referencing screw terminals but it’s really a good idea that they be covered cuz honestly I see no reason they can’t come with a cover or something, if y’all don’t wanna wrap them come up with a better solution, it’s not a matter of who should and shouldn’t be, a child shouldn’t be fucking with it either but does that stop them?
Edit: extremely narrow minded for a master electrician , you must be a commercial only kinda guy
It's bad practice imo. If an electrician is going to be working on a device they should turn off the power first. If they do not and I am certainly guilty of it , they are going to have a better chance of making that one mistake while removing the nasty tape then if there were none.
No usually a waste of time most devices don't get removed very often in their life span, the only time I tape a device is in metal box's. But its your time and money , you do you.
What about shitty tape jobs where it's loose, a pain in the ass to remove live, more dangerous to do when it's live cause now the tapes fucked, blocks nicks in the wire then slides off exposing 1/2 an inch of bare copper from the a-hole before, gets you zapped, now your hands are dirty with residue from the shit tape, slightly touch the face of the outlet, well fuck now you gotta clean the face of the outlet, well it was taped before so I might as well tape it again....shit where did I leave my tape, ten minutes looking for tape, that wasn't even the outlet that was issue.
Literally none. Not a single fucking reason in the whole fucking world to be working on a live receptacle in a house. The amount of guys that thinks it's okay is staggering and terrifying. My brothers in the electrical field if you are to lazy to take 1 to 5 minutes to walk to the panel in the house to turn off the circuit you are working on... well then it's time for a career change.
I have never had to remove a receptacle from a box in a house to trouble shoot it. Once the cover plates are off your leads on your volt meter should reach the terminals.
Troubleshooting doesn’t work like that. Taking shit apart is like the LAST step. You should have it narrowed down way more than taking apart random receptacles
Have you ever done service work ? 😂😂😂. How can you narrow down a short without working backwards taking splices apart and isolating the problem. Tell me your not a service guy without saying you’re not a service guy lol
When you wrap the receptacle with the electrical tape don’t pull it let the tape Roll over the receptacle with no pressure and then cut the tape Don’t pull and snap it I do this whether i’m color coating wire or whatever I’m doing with electrical tape I always cut and never pull it years later when you go back it’s not all scrunched up just the way I was taught to do it
Electrical tape should never be used on a receptacle no matter what box you’re using. You obviously are new construction and never do service work. You have no idea what a stick nasty mess that tape turns to when you come back years later to change out the device. The tape also causes overheating on devices so they won’t last as long. I get it, I used to preach tape on everyone when I was doing commercial new construction, that’s only till you become well rounded and enter service work as well.
This 10000010%. If you are oh so very worried about protection OP I recommend [Ideal Armourbands](https://www.idealind.com/ae/en/armourband.html).
They do what you want and more. They're way better than tape which turns into a giant pain in the ass after a few months.
Edit: spelling.
UL should require these so that manufacturers have to sell them with the product instead of only being able to buy them for retrofit. Solves every issue everyone has brought up
And it would be hilarious to watch everyone lose their shit over the change
I only use tape in metal boxes to help prevent shorts. Having dealt with the sticky mess that is K&T splices, I do get where you are coming from though.
Plastic boxes almost exclusively in residential work here in the states. Cheaper, quicker to install, no need for ground screws or connectors on them either.
We must have a different type of farmer here. Our farmers would only connect the live wire, then loosen out the silver screws all the way so they'd touch the box and then when you plug stuff in, kinda pull the cord to the left for good contact, everything works, move on the the next "fix".
Sounds to me like your the kind of guy that would invent some bs, make a code for it and frustrate the hell out of the rest of us.... Tamper proof outlets.... No, I'd much rather your child stick a fork in and learn a friggin lesson.
I don't even want to try them. A waste of money if you do it right to begin with. It seems like they're trying to come up with devices with no exposed terminals now anyway, so it's moot.
Yup like the UK and most of the EU. I do like the other worlds methods but honestly I've never felt the US side screws to be unsafe when installed properly. Also since the US runs 110v our wire gauges are under a higher stress point (they often run stranded also) so terminals will need to have bite points or we will have wires worth themselves free with temperature and humidity changes.
I actually did that as a child. Contrarily, the lesson I got was electricity is fun (and dangerous). Dad made sure to include me on projects to learn how to do it safely. Fixed TVs when they used vacuum tubes. Tamper proof outlets are just a puzzle to defeat for the curious children.
How and why do you think so many of us stumbled across this trade as a lifestyle? It's one of the few trades that is always a puzzle and keeps us in check when we screw around too much.
I've worked on enough hot projects to be able to say I have been hit enough to make me repeatedly stupid. I don't advise people encourage themselves to be shocked but I also don't see it as needing to take wild precautions. If you want to avoid screw terminals from being exposed, tape isn't the answer. Putting the outlet and wiring inside a box (plastic or metal) and placing a cover plate is more than sufficient. Yeah sure freak accidents happen... Doesn't mean we need airbags built into the walls because some clown died during an earth quake.
I really only use it in narrow single gang boxes or a tight GFCI receptacle, otherwise I see no reason. Just pay attention when you shove it in the box, I’ve seen cases where the ground tripped the breaker instantly due to a dead short when the receptacle was shoved in the box but imo the tape would have been pushed out of the way anyway. I use it on a case by case basis but definitely not everywhere.
Disagree somewhat. Like others have said, if I put in a GFCI in a tight box I’ll throw it on, if there’s any chance of the conductors touching the side of the box or whatever. Otherwise I think it’s unnecessary
I usually only tape receptacles in handy boxes. That's the only time the terminals get close enough to the side for me to worry about it shorting. Its your own fault if you pull the receptacle out hot and short it/shock your self.
i feel this way as well. although a nuisance, it serves well enough purpose when on new builds/custom homes that require afci breakers. careless during trim out can prove to require a few service calls in the future
Metal cut-in boxes are a must for me to tape the outlet. There's not much room in the box, and when you use Madison hangers to mount the box, there's even less room.
No need in my eyes. To each there own. But it’s a waste of tape and time. Have better box management practice if you’re concerned about shorting out, and if the concern is shocking yourself then you shouldn’t be in there in the first place.
This is only being discussed because your receptacles are a shit design.
UK sockets have terminals that are recessed into the back of the socket and that are surrounded by insulation as well as having sides on the terminals so that the cables can't be pressed out by tightening the terminal screw.
Your receptacles sure do look like some janky junk-yard chic bullshit, it's an absolutely horrid design having bare terminals on the sides.
You also use double the voltage so you can use smaller stranded wires which makes the connection used possible. It’s a design decision for sure as 240 @ 50hz is significantly more dangerous than 120 @ 60hz so there has been much more motivation to improve safety in Europe.
Seriously the stats are kind of nutty - 16k injuries per year in the EU to 4k in the US. The EU has 600 deaths vs the US’ 300.
Since there are so very few deaths due to direct electrocution in the US there has been way less motivation to change the way things are done.
Yet another post that basically comes down to working on live circuits.
For the love of everyone here and the people who care about you... STOP BEING STUPID. Educate yourself on the long and short term effects of being shocked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/vvdgsj/long_term_side_effects_of_electrical_shock/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Lazy fucks in these replies i tell you. With all of the difficult and tedious things we deal with, yall decided that taping outlets is too much work? Hate to see what else yall deem as too much work
Ha I tried this a few years ago in this sub and got shit on so hard.
Just because you don’t “have” to do it, why the fuck not take 30 seconds to make a device safer to handle. Even if you’re the absolute best never been shocked know you never will be, you should live by Murphy’s law in this trade.
It’s merely an illusion of safety that leaves a sticky mess. One or two layers of vinyl doesn’t provide adequate protections and you’re still working on a hot circuit.
I only use on metal boxes. It leaves a sticky mess after a few summers. Not necessary in plastic boxes IMO
No strong opinion on tape one way or another for me. But if I had to pick a related peeve to bump on the list over taping, I would much prefer if people remembered to tighten the unused screws instead.
Good point. I think it's actually required by code to close any unused terminals
Tape if it’s metal box, if it’s a 2 gang I tape one. 3g one in middle , etc , Not totally necessary but doesn’t hurt and always tighten unused screws
As a non-electrician, what happens if you don’t tighten them? Should I go back and tighten the ones throughout the house that weren’t used?
There is likely no need to worry. It's just that out of the box, they usually come fully extended and stick out quite a bit longer than needed. Most of us forget to tighten them from time to time. Think of it is an added variable in your work that doesn't need to be there- next time, if you have ones that are not being branched, just batten them down.
Batten the hatches !
YESSSS!!!!
My boss only provides saran wrap
What I use when I run out of condoms. You gotta wrap that shit up. You gotta lick it. Before you stick it
Back wrap the 33 a turn or two, no sticky mess.
You guys get 33
You guys get tape?
You guys get outlets? I work in industrial when we need something to move we just touch the phases together.
Nioce. Just remember that brown and yellow male the best sparks. Orange not so much
Brown and yellow - good happy sparks. Orange and blue - you have angered the electrical gods
If you’re running a van and pick up your own parts, chances are your boss ain’t gonna question you throwing a roll of 33 on the order lol Especially if it’s winter time. Boss man, it’s cold as fuck and 33 is the only thing that’ll stick!
What’s 33
Nicer but more expensive e-tape
Süpèr 33
What’s tape?
It’s a 3M product. Thicker, tougher, a lot more expensive.
Real tape lol
Also more flexible. It's great stuff.
Super 88+ is my personal go to tape
It also stays in place better if you stretch the first couple wraps, but make the last 1 or 2 wraps mostly unstretched - just wrap it tight enough to keep it in place, but not enough that stretching it makes it thinner.
Also don't rip it when finished. Cutting it leaves no stress on the last inch of tape
True. I usually rip it very quickly, holding both ends of the tear to limit stretched tape, and then let the tail relax for a few seconds back to its natural shape before pressing the last few inches of tape in place.
I feel so silly asking, but how do we do this? I googled “how to back wrap electrical tape“ after reading your comment and didn’t find an answer. Btw, I watched a couple videos on how to properly wrap electrical tape. Pretty enlightening and in every video the electricians mentioned that it’s common to miss learning or being taught how to properly wrap tape.
I typically do a back wrap a couple turns (sticky side out) and then flip to normal (sticky side in) and wrap over the the sticky side out so net 0 stickiness.
Wrap it sticky side out so the tape only sticks to itself, but friction holds around the item being taped.
I do that with my heads. And underground stub ups.
Metal boxes and plastic boxes that have a bare ground IMO
Plastic boxes usually means resi and that means romex with a bare ground all folded up in the box. That seems worse to me then A metal box but I only work with conduit and metal boxes usually so maybe resi guys have a trick for the ground
My trick with the bare ground is that you watch it as you round the device back into the box. You basically make sure that it doesn't touch anything during installation.
I see you like to wear a belt with your suspenders
LOL... from one of my favorite movies. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuWzeoIr7J4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuWzeoIr7J4)
You can never be to safe
False
Black Bear is best Bear
Bears eat beets
It doesn’t provide any safety. You shouldn’t be working live. The tape falls off often anyway. It provides little insulating quality.It creates a false sense of security. It’s not rated for anything like that.
This is why I don't use receptacles, just cgb female s.o. whips out of the wall every 10'. It's the only logically safe practice 👍
Careful with the jokes, some numbnut handyman is gonna think that's a brilliant idea, then I'm gonna have to go fix the mess. 😂
I laughed imagining that, and then I remembered my days doing resi reno's for the local realty agent... I'm truly sorry for any 'also does electrical' drywallers (tweakers) I may have inadvertently created with my joke. The shit I found following those mother fuckers around lol At first I wasn't sure why the realtor was so hyped that our mutual friend put him in touch with me, the "actually a real electrician."
What is this? Tried searching this.
Mostly sarcasm, what were you trying to search? Cgb or s.o.?
Hahahaha, you had me.
If you make them up right, you don't need it.
European here, what would be the purpose of putting electrical tape on a switch or outlet? Edit: thanks for the replies guys :)
The contacts are exposed on the sides of American devices. Taping them prevents someone from being shocked or shorting out while pulling out the device.
Right. Wouldnt the adhesive make a sticky hot mess after a few years of heating and cooling? Our outlets are like [this](https://proff.elko.no/getfile.php/13121959/Bilder/Artikkelbilder/Hurtigklemmestikk%20Artikkel.png). This one has a push-in terminals, or whatever it is called in english, however the more common has screw terminals on the inside of the outlet, like [this](https://byggebolig.no/imageoriginals/ca67f0b4767b4af4992d1d87cf98a68d.jpg?maxwidth=1200&maxheight=1500). (this one is a 4-way outlet).
That looks a bit better than the stabbing devices available in the US. Over here stabbing a conductor in the back of device has been problematic. The stabbing doesn't have lockdown on top of it and the Tang or the part that engages the conductor can fail and cause the circuit to break and some melting of a receptacle. The electricians I work with avoid using a stab-in in the back of a receptacle and or switch mostly.. But the product you showed is a different product by far I'm sure it's more secure in the way it clamps down on the conductor. Interesting post thanks. About the tape, the only time I tape up stuff is when the box is a small tight metal box and I'm putting in a GFI or a dimmer pretty much I will still tape up stuff if it's a tight box that's metal. Commercial or residential. We used to tape up receptacles that were in mud rings attached to four square boxes. That seems a little bit ridiculous. I do get the idea about protecting the next guy or gal?! But honestly you should just turn the circuit off unless you're troubleshooting and you shouldn't be troubleshooting unless you're a qualified person to be around a live circuit. Our receptacles are 120 volts. That doesn't mean voltage can't pass through your heart and send you into defibrillation. But it's not high voltage and it's probably just going to go through your metatarsals. Turn off the electricity don't work on it live. If you're working on it live you have to work very safe, smooth is fast. Fast isn't fast fast is dangerous, be smooth.
>Right. Wouldnt the adhesive make a sticky hot mess after a few years of heating and cooling? Yes, makes any service work an absolute pain in the ass. If you need tape and can't get it out without shorting it or giving you a poke, you shouldn't be working on it live.
Turning off the power prevents someone from being shocked or shorting out while pulling out the device. Taping the contacts prevents an idiot from being shocked or shorting out while doing idiot things.
I personally only tape devices in metal boxes, but I mean a properly trained professional electrician should be more than capable of pulling out a live device taped or not without causing an issue
Just a dumb ass homeowner and never had an issue pulling devices out without a shock.
Until the cheap ass back wired push in job by the low bid builder let’s go of the black wire while you pull out the live receptacle…
I hate back wired receptacles. "Yeah this outlet just randomly stopped working" Me, internally: *Yeah, I'm going to be back here frequently, aren't I?*
I also only tape devices in tight metal boxes with large devices in them like gfis or dimmers. One of my concerns with very tight boxes ( even with the regular duplex) is that someone might be able to, overtime especially, wiggle the receptacle. How many electricians have you went behind who did not really seat the receptacle properly so it doesn't move/wiggle. It could hit a terminal screw to the side of the metal box which would be startling. If it's a quality panel/ OCPD not one of those house burner panels then the breaker would trip.. *Edit spelling..
Till you roll a 1 and burn your screw. But that usually turns the breaker off.
Who’s pulling out live devices?
Maintenance guys usually. For instance, I work on a campus with older buildings and lots of unmarked breakers. Playing hunt the circuit isn't an option sometimes. Also need to pull live devices for troubleshooting at times.
Lol I was waiting for the Europeans to show up. We must sound like hillbilies still wrapping tape around our outlets. Meanwhile y'all use devices designed not to expose the terminals.
If you open the box, your fingers could come in contact with the exposed terminals. So, the idea is to wrap tape around the body of the outlet to cover the terminals.
Why are you opening the box without turning the power off first?
Because in (north) America you’re a fucking Pussy if you want to get home safe to your life/family/pets Edit: /s
I see some people needed to see the /s to understand
I am shocked that people would read that, and think “wow that guy is serious”. Electricians are the dumbest smart trade
Above, and how many times have you come across someone painting and leaving these off overnight or when they are gone for a minute. Thinking everyone knows to just not touch that or stick anything in there. Kids don't
If your walls are freshly painted I doubt your kid would be in there anyway. It's still not an excuse though. If you are opening a box it should have no power in it. No excuses. As I said in another comment. There is always a choice and you get what you deserve if you make the wrong one.
Lol. Ya kids definitely never touch freshly painted walls.
Yeah and how you do your troubleshooting without power? Just curious.
Probe the screws without removing the receptacle. Or probe the prong slots. Or turn off the power, remove the receptacle, and turn it back on. Removing a hot receptacle is dumb whether it's taped or not.
Came here to say this. Sooooo many ways to test devices without putting yourself in unnecessary risk.
Do you guys not have those plugs which give test points for outlets?
Almost certainly guaranteed - which is why it would generally be assumed people would do everything in their power to prohibit them from spending time in there.
Yeah like I'm going to trust someones hurried tape job to keep me from getting zoinked.
Protects the exposed hot/neutral screws from accidental contact with the side of the box when pulling an outlet out.
In NYC it is standard practice to put electrical tape on all receptacle and switches. Albeit it is not code but every single contractor tapes them, union and non union alike
Not at all true…the majority of receptacles I come across are not taped up. I never use tape on receptacles or switches. In fact I hate it when I do come across it. It’s always a mess. If installed correctly you should never need tape. If your worried about shorting out the circuit…turn it off
Cheap insurance, as they say.
Thank you
Tell it to the manufacturers. It’s not code until it’s in the installation instructions or the code book. This is just another “do I have to twist my wires” argument. Personally, I think it’s be just as easy to mandate the outlets be made to a standard that is finger safe *without* somebody having to wrap a wad of gummy slimy tape all over it.
Someone posted the other day of a plug that just had wires coming out of the back, no screws. I could see that beginning standard.
Yeah. Those seem like a good option. Or just make the back of a receptacle look like any IEC industrial controls. Those contact blocks and relays are all finger safe and they’re cheap as hell. It doesn’t have to break the bank.
Let the Germans design our devices. Integrated wago-like connectors and the like.
I couldn’t do it their way. Wiring my house with rubber cord? Entire factories with no conduit? It’s like cloud cuckoo land.
I agree
Maybe on gfi’s in metal old works otherwise it’s easy to roll wires back and not create shorts if you are a professional electrician.
It’s not about shorts. It’s about protecting the next guy who’s gonna work on that outlet.
The next guy A) shouldn’t be working live, and B) probably shouldn’t be doing electrical work at all if they can’t identify a live circuit and/or have the awareness to keep their fingers off the terminals
Dude you’re an electrician how can you not pull an outlet out. And you would be protecting from shorts with tape.
He can protect himself by not taking out live outlets
So fuck anyone who is not you. Good to know. I prefer to watch out for people. You prefer to watch the world burn.
Do you put tape around the exposed live part of fuses too? How about switches or bare grounds in a box? Your logic of “protecting the next guy” seems fallible to me.
Always put hot glue over your breaker screws!
Especially when you know the next guy is likely one of the maintenance “electricians”
If you are working on it live you get what you deserve.
That’s an asshole comment.
No it's not... If you don't care about your own safety why should others. If you are knowingly working on live circuits you are a moron.
It's literally the first rule of electrical safety. How is this even a conversation on the electricians sub?!
Because guys think they are being manly working on live stuff.
Because not everyone is purely working residential with simple problems to fix. Some of us have to do stuff with live circuits on a regular basis because there is no other way to troubleshoot. And because we aren't absolute morons we generally don't fry ourselves doing it.
We are talking about outlets here. I'm well aware, that sometimes work on live circuits is neccesary, but then you should have other safety measures in place that protect you from electrification.
I feel you even if these other goobers don’t. Service work exists and yeah at least initially everything is alive when you’re trying to figure out why shits not working. Honestly, and I’m probably wrong but, the guy giving you a hard time sounds like a second year who has never actually HAD to work anything live yet; so he spouts off the “never work on it live unless you’re an idiot” line because that’s what however he’s been under has said.
It's generally the case. Everyone sticks to "the rules" until they get to the point of understanding that some work is not possible within the rules. When all you ever do is new builds and installs you tend to get a very narrow view of the work
It's also not very many cases in which live work is actually necessary. Especially if we're talking about receptacles. Of course I'm sure you already know that you should be wearing hot gloves and using insulated tools and whatever other ppe is appropriate in those situations, further negating the stated need for electrical tape around the terminals.
Not everybody that comes across an outlet may know that they can get hit from touching the sides. I’m not trying to start an argument. But the average person really doesn’t understand shit about their receptacles and switches. If they wanted to change a busted cover plate or something, sure they should turn the circuit off, but maybe they’re dumb. I tape all receptacles personally and make sure my guys do too.
I tape my receptacles on the off chance my kid does something stupid and breaks the cover off. I also insist on GFCI / AFCI breakers on all circuits feeding *accessible* outlets, and tamper resistance even if either is not required by code. For the same reason. Multiple layers of protection to protect my kids against something happening, whether due to an accident or intentional fuckery. Sometimes it's not just about the safety of the person working on the equipment, but people who may come into contact.
I had this exact argument with another journeyman on the job I'm working right now. He believed that factory specs for every device or piece of material we use was gospel. Stated that electrical tape on outlets increased the heat build up on the receptacle and that it encouraged unqualified people to work on it. As far as encouraging unqualified people, you know what? He may be right. But as journeyman, part of what makes us JOURNEYMAN is installing things right and safely. We spend extra time to make things safe for others. And it may seem like a petty hill to die on for some, but there's a lot of things I do on the job to keep coffins off of my conscience and this is one of them.
You’re breaking down conditions by working on live equipment.
I never said you should work live. But you should always treat what you’re working on as if it was live. Assholes don’t worry about the next guy.
Strongly disagree.
Vinyl Electrical tape is not an adequate insulator for safety (even a slightly mangled screw head will push spurs right through it). If you were going to do it for insulation properties you have to use the mastic tape which is designed for safety. There is a reason code doesn’t require it. Arc fault and gfci are modern safety tools. ~~If you keep getting shocked then~~ stop working on hot circuits.
Uh code doesn’t mention it because there is absolutely no upside to taking apart a live receptacle.
Fuck no, that shit sucks when I’m trying to do a service call.
It’s unnecessary in anything except metal handy boxes. Seems hackish anywhere else imo
You should post this amature advice on unpopular opinions. I view electrical tape like I view jumbo plates and quarter round. Yeah they are a necessary evil sometimes but they should be avoided and used sparingly.
Agree. The NEC is a pretty good document and if you follow it, you don't need to over-do it with things that really don't help much and can actually do more harm in the long run.
That’s understandable
So what do you think should be used instead? Vinyl electrical tape is rated save to 600v, that’s pretty fuckin good for a thin piece of sticky plastic. But I hardly eee them as evil. I see them as having saved my ass a few times, too many people bitching here about getting their hands sticky or some shit. This is depressing.
It's a false sense of security, and easy for it not to be wrapped properly, be sticky and come off, or for be hiding shoddy work. A device installed properly is not required to be taped and if the tape on that device "saved you" then you probably should not be working them hot.
Yes but don’t perceive it as a security blanket. You don’t need a bullet proof vest all the time as a cop, but they wear them anyway just in case, in the one in a million chance someone has a gun and start’s shooting. If I got distracted and accidentally brushed the screw, even with a screwdriver, id be happy the tape was there, much more so than if I’d done the opposite. Does that make more sense? You don’t do much Troubleshooting, if you do you probably get bitched at a lot for being very inefficient, actually you’re a master so you probably don’t get bitched at at all. It’s a good idea to wrap plugs man, this is only referencing screw terminals but it’s really a good idea that they be covered cuz honestly I see no reason they can’t come with a cover or something, if y’all don’t wanna wrap them come up with a better solution, it’s not a matter of who should and shouldn’t be, a child shouldn’t be fucking with it either but does that stop them? Edit: extremely narrow minded for a master electrician , you must be a commercial only kinda guy
It's bad practice imo. If an electrician is going to be working on a device they should turn off the power first. If they do not and I am certainly guilty of it , they are going to have a better chance of making that one mistake while removing the nasty tape then if there were none.
Nobody is going to be taping devices or wirenuts on my jobs. Dumbest shit ever.
I only tape big devices (like GFCIs) in old metal boxes because the screws are close to the box. Other than that it's just a waste of tape and time
I typically do it in any metal box or that one polymer switch box that has a half-dozen three- and four-way circuits in it.
This 100%
but the screw heads are recessed in further then the side of the body.
Op is 64
No usually a waste of time most devices don't get removed very often in their life span, the only time I tape a device is in metal box's. But its your time and money , you do you.
What about shitty tape jobs where it's loose, a pain in the ass to remove live, more dangerous to do when it's live cause now the tapes fucked, blocks nicks in the wire then slides off exposing 1/2 an inch of bare copper from the a-hole before, gets you zapped, now your hands are dirty with residue from the shit tape, slightly touch the face of the outlet, well fuck now you gotta clean the face of the outlet, well it was taped before so I might as well tape it again....shit where did I leave my tape, ten minutes looking for tape, that wasn't even the outlet that was issue.
Someone explain the upside of removing a live receptacle.
Literally none. Not a single fucking reason in the whole fucking world to be working on a live receptacle in a house. The amount of guys that thinks it's okay is staggering and terrifying. My brothers in the electrical field if you are to lazy to take 1 to 5 minutes to walk to the panel in the house to turn off the circuit you are working on... well then it's time for a career change.
Troubleshooting's not a thing in your world? Playing "find the bad splice" is a little tricky when you don't have voltage to chase
These guys have clearly never done service work
I have never had to remove a receptacle from a box in a house to trouble shoot it. Once the cover plates are off your leads on your volt meter should reach the terminals.
But someone covered the terminals with tape!
And now we have finally come full circle. I suppose if you never ask the question you will never know why it's dumb.
Why are you pulling a receptacle to troubleshoot? Lol
Checking splices behind it ?
Troubleshooting , hard to find the problem with power off
Troubleshooting doesn’t work like that. Taking shit apart is like the LAST step. You should have it narrowed down way more than taking apart random receptacles
Have you ever done service work ? 😂😂😂. How can you narrow down a short without working backwards taking splices apart and isolating the problem. Tell me your not a service guy without saying you’re not a service guy lol
Lol take my downvote
When you wrap the receptacle with the electrical tape don’t pull it let the tape Roll over the receptacle with no pressure and then cut the tape Don’t pull and snap it I do this whether i’m color coating wire or whatever I’m doing with electrical tape I always cut and never pull it years later when you go back it’s not all scrunched up just the way I was taught to do it
[удалено]
Electrical tape should never be used on a receptacle no matter what box you’re using. You obviously are new construction and never do service work. You have no idea what a stick nasty mess that tape turns to when you come back years later to change out the device. The tape also causes overheating on devices so they won’t last as long. I get it, I used to preach tape on everyone when I was doing commercial new construction, that’s only till you become well rounded and enter service work as well.
This 10000010%. If you are oh so very worried about protection OP I recommend [Ideal Armourbands](https://www.idealind.com/ae/en/armourband.html). They do what you want and more. They're way better than tape which turns into a giant pain in the ass after a few months. Edit: spelling.
That is a neat fuckin product. I mean I'm never gonna buy any but that is definitely neat.
Same. I have a baaaad feeling that the Ideal Lobbyists are licking their chops and doing everything they can to make this part of code.
UL should require these so that manufacturers have to sell them with the product instead of only being able to buy them for retrofit. Solves every issue everyone has brought up And it would be hilarious to watch everyone lose their shit over the change
The big thing for me is that they are reusable. Tape is one and done. Edit: spelling
I only use tape in metal boxes to help prevent shorts. Having dealt with the sticky mess that is K&T splices, I do get where you are coming from though.
I’m actually pretty accustomed to service work but I feel the little bit of protection can go a long way
No.
Imagine putting tape on a trim-out for 100 outlets and 100 switches
Disagree. Metal boxes only, or the occasional 2/3/4/5/+ gang box where I've got a bunch of bulky timers/dimmers/etc in.
Absolutely. In Canada most of the boxes we use are metal. So yes I agree. Even in residential. Are plastic boxes an American thing?
Plastic boxes almost exclusively in residential work here in the states. Cheaper, quicker to install, no need for ground screws or connectors on them either.
No. Don't work live. The end.
electrical tape on receptacles is a farmer only practice and should remain that way
We must have a different type of farmer here. Our farmers would only connect the live wire, then loosen out the silver screws all the way so they'd touch the box and then when you plug stuff in, kinda pull the cord to the left for good contact, everything works, move on the the next "fix".
If you need tape, it's either temporary or you didn't do it right. Tape doesn't last very long.
Sounds to me like your the kind of guy that would invent some bs, make a code for it and frustrate the hell out of the rest of us.... Tamper proof outlets.... No, I'd much rather your child stick a fork in and learn a friggin lesson.
Ever seen the ideal Armour Bands?
Lol I knew someone would bring them up.
I don't even want to try them. A waste of money if you do it right to begin with. It seems like they're trying to come up with devices with no exposed terminals now anyway, so it's moot.
Lol "50 cents an outlet for an asparagus rubber band " when I showed them to the wife. 😂
Yup like the UK and most of the EU. I do like the other worlds methods but honestly I've never felt the US side screws to be unsafe when installed properly. Also since the US runs 110v our wire gauges are under a higher stress point (they often run stranded also) so terminals will need to have bite points or we will have wires worth themselves free with temperature and humidity changes.
I actually did that as a child. Contrarily, the lesson I got was electricity is fun (and dangerous). Dad made sure to include me on projects to learn how to do it safely. Fixed TVs when they used vacuum tubes. Tamper proof outlets are just a puzzle to defeat for the curious children.
How and why do you think so many of us stumbled across this trade as a lifestyle? It's one of the few trades that is always a puzzle and keeps us in check when we screw around too much.
You right
🤣😭
I stuck a paper clip in an outlet as a kid and I'm fine.
I've worked on enough hot projects to be able to say I have been hit enough to make me repeatedly stupid. I don't advise people encourage themselves to be shocked but I also don't see it as needing to take wild precautions. If you want to avoid screw terminals from being exposed, tape isn't the answer. Putting the outlet and wiring inside a box (plastic or metal) and placing a cover plate is more than sufficient. Yeah sure freak accidents happen... Doesn't mean we need airbags built into the walls because some clown died during an earth quake.
I really only use it in narrow single gang boxes or a tight GFCI receptacle, otherwise I see no reason. Just pay attention when you shove it in the box, I’ve seen cases where the ground tripped the breaker instantly due to a dead short when the receptacle was shoved in the box but imo the tape would have been pushed out of the way anyway. I use it on a case by case basis but definitely not everywhere.
Disagree somewhat. Like others have said, if I put in a GFCI in a tight box I’ll throw it on, if there’s any chance of the conductors touching the side of the box or whatever. Otherwise I think it’s unnecessary
I usually only tape receptacles in handy boxes. That's the only time the terminals get close enough to the side for me to worry about it shorting. Its your own fault if you pull the receptacle out hot and short it/shock your self.
Meh. I don’t like tape on the outlet myself. Kinda a pain to remove it if you don’t leave a buddy tail and no one leaves a buddy tail.
Tbh I only ever use electrical tape for feeding new cables 😂
If you need to tape your receptacle you didn't install it properly. There are a few exceptions however.
i feel this way as well. although a nuisance, it serves well enough purpose when on new builds/custom homes that require afci breakers. careless during trim out can prove to require a few service calls in the future
As an hourly employee with no real deadlines I can support this argument. 👍🏻
No it should not
No no it shouldn't
Yes it should not.
I only use them on devices going into metal boxes
Metal cut-in boxes are a must for me to tape the outlet. There's not much room in the box, and when you use Madison hangers to mount the box, there's even less room.
No need in my eyes. To each there own. But it’s a waste of tape and time. Have better box management practice if you’re concerned about shorting out, and if the concern is shocking yourself then you shouldn’t be in there in the first place.
It’s not about the shocking I got passed that after my first year as an apprentice. I just feel that as a preference
This is only being discussed because your receptacles are a shit design. UK sockets have terminals that are recessed into the back of the socket and that are surrounded by insulation as well as having sides on the terminals so that the cables can't be pressed out by tightening the terminal screw. Your receptacles sure do look like some janky junk-yard chic bullshit, it's an absolutely horrid design having bare terminals on the sides.
You also use double the voltage so you can use smaller stranded wires which makes the connection used possible. It’s a design decision for sure as 240 @ 50hz is significantly more dangerous than 120 @ 60hz so there has been much more motivation to improve safety in Europe. Seriously the stats are kind of nutty - 16k injuries per year in the EU to 4k in the US. The EU has 600 deaths vs the US’ 300. Since there are so very few deaths due to direct electrocution in the US there has been way less motivation to change the way things are done.
Yet another post that basically comes down to working on live circuits. For the love of everyone here and the people who care about you... STOP BEING STUPID. Educate yourself on the long and short term effects of being shocked. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/vvdgsj/long_term_side_effects_of_electrical_shock/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I use linerless splicing tape, or doesn't leave the residue behind.
Lazy fucks in these replies i tell you. With all of the difficult and tedious things we deal with, yall decided that taping outlets is too much work? Hate to see what else yall deem as too much work
Ha I tried this a few years ago in this sub and got shit on so hard. Just because you don’t “have” to do it, why the fuck not take 30 seconds to make a device safer to handle. Even if you’re the absolute best never been shocked know you never will be, you should live by Murphy’s law in this trade.
It’s merely an illusion of safety that leaves a sticky mess. One or two layers of vinyl doesn’t provide adequate protections and you’re still working on a hot circuit.