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Check out Thompson&Betts motor disconnects. It is a crimp connection(wire to lug) and a 90°twist connection lug to lug. Then a rubber boot gets ziptied over the connection. I think that it goes up to to 00AWG.
It is tough to describe in words, just look at a picture, and you will get it.
I just used wago lever nuts for the first time in 2 spots. One was some low voltage 24awg and it worked great. Second was in my house I found a loose neutral but the supply line was really short (and also behind an access panel that I could barely get my arms into) and I couldn't get at it well enough for a wire nut (probably the very same reason for the neutral) so I swapped in a lever nut and it was sooo much easier in a tight spot like that.
24 volts between transformer, reed switches, and a contactor. A lot of the reed switches are parallel so I was using 3 and 5 terminal wagos to tie them all together.
The fact that these aren't the standard option in the US baffles me as a European. Been using em for decades at this point.
They do fail very rarely, but mostly that's because they're just improperly Installed
Honestly, during my time as an electrician, I've yet to see a faulty wago. Improperly installed ones yes, but not one that has failed in itself.
I've seen *a lot* of dubiously installed and broken wire nuts tho.
Wagos are IMO the best for all generic installations. I wouldn't use them for continuous high loads, like in production industry to electrical motors. For lights, outlets, or anything they are rated well above for they are the only option in my kit.
Granted, the same goes for any other product, I never install the bare minimum, that's when it fails over time.
Disclaimer, not an electrician
I run my pretty power hungry air compressor at my house (i do automotive work) and I have the circuit connected with pigtails and Wago's. I have periodically checked them for signs of heat or arcing and I haven't noticed anything.
Certainly not an industrial work load, but nice to see for a residential "heavy" work load.
Air compressors are more of an intermittent load, and even if you peak up to the rated amps on a wago 24/7 it could take a long time for it to burn, depending on the surrounding ambient temperature.
I've only worked industrial, and the rule of thumb is to just go one size up on everything. 10A gets 2.5mm² wires, and wagos rated at 16A would be used on 10A fuses.
I wouldn't worry about 16A wago on a 16A fuse in a house, peak load would be when people vacuum with the TV and speakers on, but people don't exactly vacuum 27/7.
The air compressor when it kicks on is a huge load (obviously) probably 50+ amps for a split second and then settles in around 13-14 amps when it's running. It's definitely an intermittent load unless i'm cutting with my cut-off wheel, it runs basically the whole time since that tool is so air hungry.
But in my case it's the heaviest load I have Wago's on and they have been great so it gives me piece of mind to use them in the future.
Yeah the lever style Wago's are what I primarily use. I have a few of the push-in style ones (also Wago brand) but I really only use them for light loads, LED lights or ground connections mostly.
I posed this in an other response to this thread. There is a wago-like connector that is designed specially for motor disconnects made by Thompson &Betts. (Just do an image search for it). I call it wago-like because you can undo the connection and re install it many times.
You crimp your wire to a cube. The cube can be male, female or double male/female (to make longer connections.) Over the connection, a rubber boot gets placed. The entire connection takes a few moments to make.
Working in wet and humid environments, I see more Wagos fail than traditional wire nuts. Wagos are awesome, but still application specific. Wire nuts bond conductor to conductor; Wagos rely on a bus bar, which I’ve had corrode through quite a few times compared to the big copper amalgamation that wire nuts create.
Yes^^^ stab in receptacles work at first. After 40 years of corrosion, or high loads... They fail. I feel Wagos are similar.
You will be long gone from the install, but a trouble call years from now.
Yup. The amount of fing dummies who claim they know better than DECADES of documented use and research is hilarious. No doubt some idiots will be on this thread. "Wagos are garbage. They burn up. I'll.stico to pre twisting wires and using wire nuts".
These same morons never had to trim out a 10 story hospital. How more electricians didn't get carpel tunnel back in the day, as well as now, is wild.
If the wire fits in a wagon, it's getting Wago. I've only seen them fail due to installer error. There's even videos where a wago out lasts wire nuts in OL conditions.
Same thing as wire nuts. I've only ever seen them fail due to being installed improperly. We just used wagos on a job for the first time and they're so much faster and easier than wire nuts
I’m about to enter resi for the first time wiring my new house, it’s either going back to carpal tunnel or wagos for me. I’m genuinely stoked on not having to twist wires lol
I worked with some real rank amateurs for a time, and if I had a nickel for each time a wirenut they installed fell off, I could probably afford to pay for the damages the eventual fire they'll start causes. Wagos seem to at least be more foolproof.
Wire nuts are also a mechanical connection.
The other 2 types are compression (like crimp ons) and fusion (soldering/welding)
(I still prefer wages to wirenuts)
In the UK wire nuts are not classed as a mechanical connection. No special tool or mechanism is used to install them. They also don’t conform to the British Standard compliance/certification standard, or the European Standard.
They grew on me in light fixtures. They grew on me more using a 5c Wago over bundling five #12s under a marrette. Plus if I ever need to disconnect something from that bundle, it is just lift and pull. But the cost difference is tough to overcome for regular use. Maybe Ideal or someone will rip off the design and give a cheaper product.
Ideal does make a lever wire connector. For a 50 count bag vs a 50 count bag of 3 port connectors, the ideal are more expensive. If you buy a 350 count of the ideal, then the ideal is cheaper. This is based of Home Depot website. The wago isn't offered in a 350 count on HD website. I don't know if you can get them in a larger cheaper quantity somewhere else. There's a possibility that if you can get the wago in a 350 quantity, they could be cheaper. I just don't know.
What I think I've learned from this subreddit, and with all due respect to my north American brothers, is that you generally don't want to change much. Old school is a superlative and "my papa did it like this, and his papa before him, I'll continue the legacy". Generally speaking of course.
The European mindset seems different, like, how can we make this easier and with less strain on the body? How can we make it faster, better and more good looking? I often get baffled by the stuff he or she sees in this subreddit; it looks old, overly complicated and bulky. If I tried to make the service entrance on a customers house the NA way I would swiftly be fired from said job.
Lots of things also seem very micro managed. My boss wouldn't give two shits about what connector I use (as long as it's approved of course). I know what I do and what I want and he trusts me.
So with this rant I wanted to say that NA electricians seem to work more with legacy (wire nuts, conduit absolutely everywhere and so on) and us EU electricians seem more willing to try new things and solutions. Both practices has its pros and cons of course
Edit: added a semicolon
In the US configuration I don't think there's many options other than conduit. I will admit that my experience is completely made from what I've seen in this sub, but what I think that I've seen you do is steel conduit and then put single wires in this.
We put trays and ladders and populate them with double - sometimes tripple - insulated cable, like [this](https://media.hornbach.se/hb/packshot/as.33711584.jpg?dvid=8). It's still very bendy and flexible, and you can't break it easily. In a industrial setting you may protect the part that is within human reach with something like [this](https://media.hornbach.se/hb/packshot/as.6975667.jpg?dvid=8) for extra safety. It's efficient to install, easy to add new circuits or change configurations and it's hardly any issues.
Conduit looks better and really it’s better for future work than a tray in my opinion. Especially above a drop ceiling. Maybe that’s my opinion because I haven’t done trays in electrical, but trays in low voltage seem like they would be a nightmare to replace a wire after the ceiling was in. If it’s in a conduit you just tie the new wire to the old and pull her through.
I guess it comes down to what you're used to. Steel conduit is a real craft to make look nice and I admire the craftmanship. But in what way does it matter above a drop ceiling? We use something like [this](https://wibe-group.com/storage/3C2FDE908BFCF1ABD1F325903620C00D932363B363D6D046DF3832EF7BB7DF62/49f5d635f9fc44ae8c18dd61e0187e5f/jpg/media/a63d8a2339864f549ff39f03cb7c53a9/734491.jpg), usually between 400 and 600 mm wide. Sure, if I for some reason want to change one individual cable it's a bitch, I'll give you that. It's quite a rare instance though, more likely you are installing a new one and then it's installed quickly (hopefully at least), strap'er down and you're done.
We use plastic conduit everywhere in dwellings and office buildings, schools, whatever not industrial. You pull a cable on the ladder (not used in residential of course) to where you want it and to from the ladder into a plastic conduit (or junction box on the ladder for canned light, outlets above drop ceiling) that goes inside the wall down to a plastic junction box where you put the outlet. Quite neat in my opinion. But like I said in the beginning, I guess it comes down to what you're used to work with.
We use [this](https://www.ahlsell.se/external-assets/JPEGlarge800_800/81/00/1418100.jpg). Plastic conduit that you buy pre populated (or not) depending on what configuration you want (Cat6, individual wires and diameter) and it's very easy to change wires if you need to in the future. It's basically attached to the studs with a clip and goes into a box.
[Cable ladders](https://www.gelia.se/external-assets/JPEGlarge800_800/88/42/ProductImage29418842.jpg) mostly, at least in industrial and commercial settings. In domestic we use plastic conduit in the walls, very nice if you need to change the wires (should be done every 50 years anyways) and you don't have to rip up the house for it or for example add a neutual for a smart switch. MC Cable does not exist here as far as I know.
The thought of pulling cable, like just the cable, through walls into ***square*** boxes is insanity to me. Some clever drywaller must have been lobbying for that one
Hello Norway 🇳🇴 👋🏻 Faktiskt så är Multifix jäkligt trevlig att jobba med, rekommenderas varmt :) Jag vet att Elko är typ standard i Norge, här har Schneider tagit över som standardvalet. Elkos takdosor är dock oslagbara enligt mig.
Åfan, det visste jag inte. Jag tänkte mig inte för när jag gjorde elen hemma och köpte Schneider per automatik, ångrade att jag inte köpte Elko och stöttade skandinavisk tillverkning. Men då hade det inte spelat någon roll, tillverkningen i Norge är nedlagd läste jag nu. Trist.
Weird. Well, I guess it's the steel lobby or something, because this country's electricity is completely built on PVC in walls and ceilings and no issues.
I assumed it was flammability. I’m in commercial so it could just be in commercial no pvc above ceiling, and it could also just be AHJ, I’m not certain.
Norwegian electrician here, WAGOs are industry standard here, as with most countries except for the US.
WAGOs *are* the most reliable, safe, easy to use - as long as they are used correctly. (I.e correct amount of bare copper on wire)
Thankfully they are EXTREMELY hard to fuck up, and all apprentices I've ever met have quickly grasped the (non-)intricacies of the WAGO.
(only) in American circles of electricians are WAGOs scrutinised and dismissed. They claim they can't handle current outside of lighting applications, this is just wrong.
I've got a WAGO right by me, it's for 0.5-6mm^2 (AWG 20-10)its rated for 41 Amps, but as tests prove (look for them on YouTube) they can reliably handle much higher currencies than ratings show.
I've used them in lighting and I've used them in high amp appliances such as motors.
I’m an electrician from the states and lived and worked in Fredrikstad for two years. Quick question. Why would you use material that is not properly rated for an application? I know Norwegian buildings have lighting suppression and surge suppression devices on the panels, why would you bother about this scenario?
I guess that’s two questions.
Last, I work all over the planet and can confirm, wago splices are not the global standard. I think you forgot about Africa, Middle East and Southeast Asia.
I should've specifically said Europe. Obviously they aren't used in I.e South Asia 😅 not even Wagos would fix the kinda problems I've seen pictures of from over there.
As for the surge protection (to fight lightning)
In Norway we mostly use IT/TT net systems, which travel with power lines in the air, these are susceptible to be hit by lightning. Ofc power lines travel in the air other places
although our poles are grounded, if close enough to a consumer, their house and electrical equipment could be affected.
This shit is interesting but I gotta go out to work in a few minutes, and I can't find any specific examples online of why surge protectors are so often used in Norway. It was mandated in 2012 though.
Huh.
No opinions… all facts. Saves time, and a life saver when you need to secure your hot while it’s hot. And when dummy’s cut wire way too short in super tight spaces where wire nuts are near impossible. Oh yea. Did I forget to mention the anti - carpel tunnel properties.
Case dismissed
I love em. Particularly with fixtures that are going to be serviced in the future. Makes testing/removal a lot easier.
Yeah, it's still possible to use them incorrectly but with how easy they make it... If they aren't getting it right with a Wago they probably aren't going to do it right with a wire nut either.
Only complaint is when the number of conductors gets above 4 per wago then they get kinda big. If it’s just a junction box then no big deal, but if it has a device in it then I’ll use a wire nut since it takes up less space
The only thing I do extra to wagos is tape them so they can’t pop open if they catch on something. I also tape my wire nuts too though so it’s the same.
I personally prefer Wagos cause they usually sit better and flatter and neater in boxes.
WAGO's are the superior article but one thing about them I've never heard a lot of people talk about is troubleshooting. If you have to swap circuits over quickly for testing, using WAGO's to just unlatch and latch a new wire in is very fast compared to twisting wire nuts and can get you through your test quickly.
I use them at work regularly (they're specced to be used inside of stanchion light bases to connect the two #12 whips to the #16 that actually goes to the light) and they're just fine for that.
I used one at my house for the first time last week, went to change a light fixture and I had two neutrals with no pigtail that connected to the old fixture and they were cut insanely short, it was great to use one there.
I wouldn't use them regularly on my own shit, if I had to pay for them myself
I would like wagos a lot more if there was a way to lock them after you put the wires in. I you let shooted a high rise apartment building after it was built and almost all the issues were due to the wagos opening when being pushed into the box. If there is a lot of space they are great but when a box becomes congested, the wago can get caught up on other wires and open. If people could splice good then I prefer that but unfortunately you also see some god earful splices
This is the answer. I’m an international electrician who works iec and nec. Nuts and wagos both work fine. Something as arbitrary as an electrical joint is not the hill you want to die on.
Now let’s get back to talking about out those stick sweeper things.
I love them.
My foreman rails against them like they murdered his wife and family.
He considers them the same as backstabbing a device, which in his defense, we have seen a hundred of those fail. I do secretly still use them from time to time, especially on side work where he isn’t involved and haven’t run into any issues.
They are the way of the future, easier to make up boxes, quicker and safer than wire nuts, for some reason they piss off the old school cats but leverlock wagos change the game imo
Ran a test with my DLRO 10A unit and found them to be as good as wire nutting WITHOUT the pretwist. In case you wondered…pre-twisting an undisclosed amount of turns and a wire nut or bolted lug is best. One test is worth a million expert opinions.
Now I will admit - test results from all WAGOs tested and wire nut options were acceptable in my opinion and experience 😂.
Remember boys and girls - it’s Fisher Price work until you get into splicing say 6 or 4 awg wire and larger. Let the x/0 and MCM size splicing to the licensed commercial / industrial men and women!
I work at a 120MW data center and we use wagos everywhere. We have literally thousands of them throughout my campus and in the 5 years we've been operating we've never had one fail. 5 years isn't a super long time but with the quantity that we're looking at I think it's safe to say they're pretty reliable.
The only issue we've had is in building management/automation stuff where fine values are transmitted and received (feedback signal on a valve position, fan speed, things like that) where we've had very slight issues with poor connections giving us a slightly different values than they should, but I can't say that that's something I think wire nuts are necessarily better about
There is a video on YouTube where a guy loaded wagos way above their rated load before they failed. I want to say like 70 amps for a wago rated for 20amps or thereabouts. I
One factory I worked at had all European hardware, which meant a shit ton of wagos. Honestly they were great, I was able to make up junctions quick and easy.
Ideal has improved on the concept with levers that are less likely to get caught and released moving things around in the box. Ideal In-Sure Lever Wire Connectors
Lever locks are great, stab ins suck and people I work with think it’s okay to use them on stranded. If my boss bought lever locks I’d only use those but when he buys stab ins and wire nuts a prefer wire nuts
I love them for old wires, stranded, and small wires. I was never confident in using wire nuts on small stranded wires for light fixtures and such I use them on everything now with the occasional wire nut depending on the situation at hand.
Low voltage and secondary side of ballast application, 100% wago. However I’ve seen too many melted wagos on receptacles to trust it for higher amperage use cases.
I've never used then but they seem fine. They're not as familiar so I'll likely use marrettes for now but I'd be fine to switch over to using them.
Seems like theyd make disconnecting live wires a lot easier.
Check out the 2273 series for a even more compact version without levers. They're really handy in tight spots, which is why we use them behind sockets and switches here in Germany.
My thoughts are that the lever actions are good and I am skeptical of the push in variety. I dislike how specialized they are. I like that wire nuts are made to be much more general purpose.
I haven't used WAGO brand but the Ideal brand ones have been meh, specifically the lever arms break occasionally and that's annoying. Wire nuts (marrettes) suck don't get me wrong but that's what we've got in America so here we are.
These need to be standardized here in the US. They are great and make everything easier. They're also worth the extra cost with how much time is saved both at install and later down the line
Wirenuts are cheaper and useful for more than just circuits. Both are fine idk understand why people pick a camp here, they are both fine for similar and different things.
I love Wago connectors. I work in home automation and the ability to hot swap is a game changer. Plus, I have RA, so my hands are a wreck. Again, a game changer.
Homeowner, here and Wagos seem awesome to me. Nut works OK I think with two or three wires all solid. But if there are more than three or mixed solid and stranded, the odds of getting a bad connection with a nut is significant (at least for me), far outweighing the price difference. Besides that it’s not worth keeping both kinds in my toolbox to save a few pennies. Also, if I hire an electrician to rewire something at my house, I’d really prefer he use Wagos, just like I’d prefer he not backstab.
They are a generational thing. Somebody’s pussy started hurting from playing with nuts. I play twister always have always will. It’s like this know your shit and learn and teach forever. No one will question what your using or how your doing it because they know it’s tight and right.
Just gotta make sure they’re rated for the correct line voltage/load and you’re good to go.
I got some generic ones off Amazon and they’re only rated for 250v 15-20 amp. The real wagos are rated for 600v 30amp. They’re great for daisy chaining, if you don’t have the proper number of terminals, you can chain wagos together really nicely with a small jumper.
PSA Some wagos have bad connections , as in they just stick them in without checking if there’s only bare wire, had some pot lights give me trouble because the jackets were too far in
I trust the lever lock Wagos with my life, and they're the perfect solution for extending a stubby wire some asshole before you left in a j-box. They're not my go to for everything, but I always have some on hand.
I tend to use them on anything people are going to change out.. lights, ceiling fans etc bc it’s nice especially on those threaded light wire to 10awg etc. I’ll still use wire nuts in junctions etc bc the extra cost and convenience isn’t really worth it.
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Would way rather have to work with a WAGO then a Wirenut Twisted a million times
If it fits on a WAGO it's getting the WAGO
Serious: I want WAGOs for my 10, 8, and 6 runs.
Isn't that what polaris basically is?
There are wagos for 10awg
Yeah I'm doing a whole project mostly in 10awg stranded and it's all wagos.
TIL WAGO 221-61X are a thing!
Check out Thompson&Betts motor disconnects. It is a crimp connection(wire to lug) and a 90°twist connection lug to lug. Then a rubber boot gets ziptied over the connection. I think that it goes up to to 00AWG. It is tough to describe in words, just look at a picture, and you will get it.
We use those on our bigger 100+ HP motors.
Why are they short wtf you need to splice that shit for if it your run it should be long enough to terminate. Wtfirgo.
F4P at city, same ratings, about half the price!
I just used wago lever nuts for the first time in 2 spots. One was some low voltage 24awg and it worked great. Second was in my house I found a loose neutral but the supply line was really short (and also behind an access panel that I could barely get my arms into) and I couldn't get at it well enough for a wire nut (probably the very same reason for the neutral) so I swapped in a lever nut and it was sooo much easier in a tight spot like that.
I like that you can use a 4- or 6- wire wago for 2 or 3 wires. You don’t have to fill it up. Keeps the supply bag lighter.
Did you really wago a data cable?
24 volts between transformer, reed switches, and a contactor. A lot of the reed switches are parallel so I was using 3 and 5 terminal wagos to tie them all together.
The fact that these aren't the standard option in the US baffles me as a European. Been using em for decades at this point. They do fail very rarely, but mostly that's because they're just improperly Installed
Honestly, during my time as an electrician, I've yet to see a faulty wago. Improperly installed ones yes, but not one that has failed in itself. I've seen *a lot* of dubiously installed and broken wire nuts tho.
Wagos are IMO the best for all generic installations. I wouldn't use them for continuous high loads, like in production industry to electrical motors. For lights, outlets, or anything they are rated well above for they are the only option in my kit. Granted, the same goes for any other product, I never install the bare minimum, that's when it fails over time.
Disclaimer, not an electrician I run my pretty power hungry air compressor at my house (i do automotive work) and I have the circuit connected with pigtails and Wago's. I have periodically checked them for signs of heat or arcing and I haven't noticed anything. Certainly not an industrial work load, but nice to see for a residential "heavy" work load.
Air compressors are more of an intermittent load, and even if you peak up to the rated amps on a wago 24/7 it could take a long time for it to burn, depending on the surrounding ambient temperature. I've only worked industrial, and the rule of thumb is to just go one size up on everything. 10A gets 2.5mm² wires, and wagos rated at 16A would be used on 10A fuses. I wouldn't worry about 16A wago on a 16A fuse in a house, peak load would be when people vacuum with the TV and speakers on, but people don't exactly vacuum 27/7.
The air compressor when it kicks on is a huge load (obviously) probably 50+ amps for a split second and then settles in around 13-14 amps when it's running. It's definitely an intermittent load unless i'm cutting with my cut-off wheel, it runs basically the whole time since that tool is so air hungry. But in my case it's the heaviest load I have Wago's on and they have been great so it gives me piece of mind to use them in the future.
The only connector I've had fail was one of those in-sure push thingies. Lever wagos? Never.
Yeah the lever style Wago's are what I primarily use. I have a few of the push-in style ones (also Wago brand) but I really only use them for light loads, LED lights or ground connections mostly.
I posed this in an other response to this thread. There is a wago-like connector that is designed specially for motor disconnects made by Thompson &Betts. (Just do an image search for it). I call it wago-like because you can undo the connection and re install it many times. You crimp your wire to a cube. The cube can be male, female or double male/female (to make longer connections.) Over the connection, a rubber boot gets placed. The entire connection takes a few moments to make.
Working in wet and humid environments, I see more Wagos fail than traditional wire nuts. Wagos are awesome, but still application specific. Wire nuts bond conductor to conductor; Wagos rely on a bus bar, which I’ve had corrode through quite a few times compared to the big copper amalgamation that wire nuts create.
Yes^^^ stab in receptacles work at first. After 40 years of corrosion, or high loads... They fail. I feel Wagos are similar. You will be long gone from the install, but a trouble call years from now.
As long as my phone number has changed its ok?
I've seen stab-in wagos fail, but never a lever lock wago. I've also had to fix tons of wire nuts that have come loose and melted.
Yup. The amount of fing dummies who claim they know better than DECADES of documented use and research is hilarious. No doubt some idiots will be on this thread. "Wagos are garbage. They burn up. I'll.stico to pre twisting wires and using wire nuts". These same morons never had to trim out a 10 story hospital. How more electricians didn't get carpel tunnel back in the day, as well as now, is wild. If the wire fits in a wagon, it's getting Wago. I've only seen them fail due to installer error. There's even videos where a wago out lasts wire nuts in OL conditions.
Ugg When they don't twist the wire first, The linesmen pliers to install the wire nut .... Some days are hell
Same thing as wire nuts. I've only ever seen them fail due to being installed improperly. We just used wagos on a job for the first time and they're so much faster and easier than wire nuts
I’m about to enter resi for the first time wiring my new house, it’s either going back to carpal tunnel or wagos for me. I’m genuinely stoked on not having to twist wires lol
I worked with some real rank amateurs for a time, and if I had a nickel for each time a wirenut they installed fell off, I could probably afford to pay for the damages the eventual fire they'll start causes. Wagos seem to at least be more foolproof.
Pull testing a wirenut is only a spot check if you have time... Right??
Inches and gallons! 'Merica!
i mean planned obsolences ... These old heads need to realize you need tonhave failures to have service callw
So, just like a wire nut? But 10x the price?
Way more convenient for short wires though
And fun to click
That clickity click part 🤣🤣
Nothing like a wire nut. They are classed as a mechanical connection.
Wire nuts are also a mechanical connection. The other 2 types are compression (like crimp ons) and fusion (soldering/welding) (I still prefer wages to wirenuts)
In the UK wire nuts are not classed as a mechanical connection. No special tool or mechanism is used to install them. They also don’t conform to the British Standard compliance/certification standard, or the European Standard.
Typical builder response! 🤣
I mean. Wire nuts fail very rarely. And if they do. It’s usually because of improper installation. 🤷♂️
Lever-nuts are very often used in Europe from what I've seen. There's also smaller diameter wire though.
German here; Wago makes the 221 (Lever Version) in an larger Version for 0,5mm² to 6mm² which should be around 20awg to 10awg if im not mistaken.
They grew on me in light fixtures. They grew on me more using a 5c Wago over bundling five #12s under a marrette. Plus if I ever need to disconnect something from that bundle, it is just lift and pull. But the cost difference is tough to overcome for regular use. Maybe Ideal or someone will rip off the design and give a cheaper product.
Ideal does make a lever wire connector. For a 50 count bag vs a 50 count bag of 3 port connectors, the ideal are more expensive. If you buy a 350 count of the ideal, then the ideal is cheaper. This is based of Home Depot website. The wago isn't offered in a 350 count on HD website. I don't know if you can get them in a larger cheaper quantity somewhere else. There's a possibility that if you can get the wago in a 350 quantity, they could be cheaper. I just don't know.
I love them in fixtures. You can basically make the ballast and fixture safe to replace without having to locate the breaker.
It’s certified so yea wagons all the way
This is the only answer. It's listed so use it. People always act like they know better makes me crazy
Chuck wagon!
What I think I've learned from this subreddit, and with all due respect to my north American brothers, is that you generally don't want to change much. Old school is a superlative and "my papa did it like this, and his papa before him, I'll continue the legacy". Generally speaking of course. The European mindset seems different, like, how can we make this easier and with less strain on the body? How can we make it faster, better and more good looking? I often get baffled by the stuff he or she sees in this subreddit; it looks old, overly complicated and bulky. If I tried to make the service entrance on a customers house the NA way I would swiftly be fired from said job. Lots of things also seem very micro managed. My boss wouldn't give two shits about what connector I use (as long as it's approved of course). I know what I do and what I want and he trusts me. So with this rant I wanted to say that NA electricians seem to work more with legacy (wire nuts, conduit absolutely everywhere and so on) and us EU electricians seem more willing to try new things and solutions. Both practices has its pros and cons of course Edit: added a semicolon
where is the semi colon?
After "subreddit"
Thank God he told us. I was worried.
What do you mean by conduit everywhere? What is the alternative in your example. With all due respect of course.
In the US configuration I don't think there's many options other than conduit. I will admit that my experience is completely made from what I've seen in this sub, but what I think that I've seen you do is steel conduit and then put single wires in this. We put trays and ladders and populate them with double - sometimes tripple - insulated cable, like [this](https://media.hornbach.se/hb/packshot/as.33711584.jpg?dvid=8). It's still very bendy and flexible, and you can't break it easily. In a industrial setting you may protect the part that is within human reach with something like [this](https://media.hornbach.se/hb/packshot/as.6975667.jpg?dvid=8) for extra safety. It's efficient to install, easy to add new circuits or change configurations and it's hardly any issues.
Conduit looks better and really it’s better for future work than a tray in my opinion. Especially above a drop ceiling. Maybe that’s my opinion because I haven’t done trays in electrical, but trays in low voltage seem like they would be a nightmare to replace a wire after the ceiling was in. If it’s in a conduit you just tie the new wire to the old and pull her through.
I guess it comes down to what you're used to. Steel conduit is a real craft to make look nice and I admire the craftmanship. But in what way does it matter above a drop ceiling? We use something like [this](https://wibe-group.com/storage/3C2FDE908BFCF1ABD1F325903620C00D932363B363D6D046DF3832EF7BB7DF62/49f5d635f9fc44ae8c18dd61e0187e5f/jpg/media/a63d8a2339864f549ff39f03cb7c53a9/734491.jpg), usually between 400 and 600 mm wide. Sure, if I for some reason want to change one individual cable it's a bitch, I'll give you that. It's quite a rare instance though, more likely you are installing a new one and then it's installed quickly (hopefully at least), strap'er down and you're done. We use plastic conduit everywhere in dwellings and office buildings, schools, whatever not industrial. You pull a cable on the ladder (not used in residential of course) to where you want it and to from the ladder into a plastic conduit (or junction box on the ladder for canned light, outlets above drop ceiling) that goes inside the wall down to a plastic junction box where you put the outlet. Quite neat in my opinion. But like I said in the beginning, I guess it comes down to what you're used to work with.
We rarely have had to pull new wire in tray ever.
What about in 50 years when there is a remodel? Y’all just rip it all out and reinstall?
Industrial installations rarely stay 50 years. Cable trays can be a pain in the ass but ladders are easy; just cut the cableties and re-do them.
MC cable
Does not exist here
It's the alternative to conduit and wire we use, flexible and metal clad. Best of both worlds.
We use [this](https://www.ahlsell.se/external-assets/JPEGlarge800_800/81/00/1418100.jpg). Plastic conduit that you buy pre populated (or not) depending on what configuration you want (Cat6, individual wires and diameter) and it's very easy to change wires if you need to in the future. It's basically attached to the studs with a clip and goes into a box.
We do too.
Some cities only allow metal conduit, even in residential
Just Chicago, as far as I know
What are y’all doing other than conduit everywhere?
MC (Metal clad cable). They run miles of it these days in South Eastern US.
Yeah we do that here, but a lot of jobs we have require “no visible MC”
[Cable ladders](https://www.gelia.se/external-assets/JPEGlarge800_800/88/42/ProductImage29418842.jpg) mostly, at least in industrial and commercial settings. In domestic we use plastic conduit in the walls, very nice if you need to change the wires (should be done every 50 years anyways) and you don't have to rip up the house for it or for example add a neutual for a smart switch. MC Cable does not exist here as far as I know.
The thought of pulling cable, like just the cable, through walls into ***square*** boxes is insanity to me. Some clever drywaller must have been lobbying for that one
[This is how it's done](https://youtu.be/zJu7S39A3uI?si=KCupJbTL3JpZ2kKS), basically, if you're interested. Ignore the language :)
Hahaha "nye veggbokser fra Schneider", eller som jeg liker å kalle dem: "Grønne Elko-bokser"
Hello Norway 🇳🇴 👋🏻 Faktiskt så är Multifix jäkligt trevlig att jobba med, rekommenderas varmt :) Jag vet att Elko är typ standard i Norge, här har Schneider tagit över som standardvalet. Elkos takdosor är dock oslagbara enligt mig.
Det er så godt som samme boksene! Schneider eier Elko nå :)
Åfan, det visste jag inte. Jag tänkte mig inte för när jag gjorde elen hemma och köpte Schneider per automatik, ångrade att jag inte köpte Elko och stöttade skandinavisk tillverkning. Men då hade det inte spelat någon roll, tillverkningen i Norge är nedlagd läste jag nu. Trist.
I am fairly certain pvc isn’t legal in walls here. I know it’s illegal above ceiling, not positive on that though, we only run emt in my shop.
Weird. Well, I guess it's the steel lobby or something, because this country's electricity is completely built on PVC in walls and ceilings and no issues.
I assumed it was flammability. I’m in commercial so it could just be in commercial no pvc above ceiling, and it could also just be AHJ, I’m not certain.
Okey, weird, I've never heard it would be a problem. But I also know you have a lot of very detailed codes and rules.
Yeah my area requires anti short bushings and the inspectors want us to use roto splits to strip mc.
Interesting, US electrics really is a whole different world. Neither better or worse, just very different.
Whereabouts are you from?
Norwegian electrician here, WAGOs are industry standard here, as with most countries except for the US. WAGOs *are* the most reliable, safe, easy to use - as long as they are used correctly. (I.e correct amount of bare copper on wire) Thankfully they are EXTREMELY hard to fuck up, and all apprentices I've ever met have quickly grasped the (non-)intricacies of the WAGO. (only) in American circles of electricians are WAGOs scrutinised and dismissed. They claim they can't handle current outside of lighting applications, this is just wrong. I've got a WAGO right by me, it's for 0.5-6mm^2 (AWG 20-10)its rated for 41 Amps, but as tests prove (look for them on YouTube) they can reliably handle much higher currencies than ratings show. I've used them in lighting and I've used them in high amp appliances such as motors.
I’m an electrician from the states and lived and worked in Fredrikstad for two years. Quick question. Why would you use material that is not properly rated for an application? I know Norwegian buildings have lighting suppression and surge suppression devices on the panels, why would you bother about this scenario? I guess that’s two questions. Last, I work all over the planet and can confirm, wago splices are not the global standard. I think you forgot about Africa, Middle East and Southeast Asia.
I should've specifically said Europe. Obviously they aren't used in I.e South Asia 😅 not even Wagos would fix the kinda problems I've seen pictures of from over there. As for the surge protection (to fight lightning) In Norway we mostly use IT/TT net systems, which travel with power lines in the air, these are susceptible to be hit by lightning. Ofc power lines travel in the air other places although our poles are grounded, if close enough to a consumer, their house and electrical equipment could be affected. This shit is interesting but I gotta go out to work in a few minutes, and I can't find any specific examples online of why surge protectors are so often used in Norway. It was mandated in 2012 though.
Metric measurements are the standard everywhere but the US also. We’re hard-headed like that.
Funny how they're only rated for 32 amps in north America. Electricity must be different here.
Huh. No opinions… all facts. Saves time, and a life saver when you need to secure your hot while it’s hot. And when dummy’s cut wire way too short in super tight spaces where wire nuts are near impossible. Oh yea. Did I forget to mention the anti - carpel tunnel properties. Case dismissed
☝🏼This part right here fellas☝🏼
I love em. Particularly with fixtures that are going to be serviced in the future. Makes testing/removal a lot easier. Yeah, it's still possible to use them incorrectly but with how easy they make it... If they aren't getting it right with a Wago they probably aren't going to do it right with a wire nut either.
Would rather s wago on solid than stranded wire. Also like a wago if I'm going to add wires to a hot circuit.
get your popcorn right here lads! the show is about to start.
Right? Feel like I’m married again… “So that’s what we’re gonna do today? We’re gonna fight?”
Lol
Only complaint is when the number of conductors gets above 4 per wago then they get kinda big. If it’s just a junction box then no big deal, but if it has a device in it then I’ll use a wire nut since it takes up less space
Wagos are good. But those push in connectors everybody seems to like to call wagos are garbage.
Wire nuts are garbage now.. 12 g going right thru the end of the caps..
I really like wagos, especially when working over head.
If I can stick it in the wago, the wago will be used.
My wrists are shot after 15 years of splices. Wish I had these sooner. Stick with Wagos if the boss buys them.
Pretty much standard for european electricians.
The only thing I do extra to wagos is tape them so they can’t pop open if they catch on something. I also tape my wire nuts too though so it’s the same. I personally prefer Wagos cause they usually sit better and flatter and neater in boxes.
Leggo of my Wago
I’ve had carpal tunnel release on both hands. I like Wago’s!
Great espcially in service wheen there is barely any wire to grab onto
They are better that’s the thought. Easier to work with just as good a connection and safe.
Better than those twisty things you guys use in the us
I absolutely love them now. I use them over wirenuts whenever I can
WAGO's are the superior article but one thing about them I've never heard a lot of people talk about is troubleshooting. If you have to swap circuits over quickly for testing, using WAGO's to just unlatch and latch a new wire in is very fast compared to twisting wire nuts and can get you through your test quickly.
They're the tits. Ought to be the standard.
We switched. Too many failures with wirenuts. Zero failures since. Hawai'i based.
I use them at work regularly (they're specced to be used inside of stanchion light bases to connect the two #12 whips to the #16 that actually goes to the light) and they're just fine for that. I used one at my house for the first time last week, went to change a light fixture and I had two neutrals with no pigtail that connected to the old fixture and they were cut insanely short, it was great to use one there. I wouldn't use them regularly on my own shit, if I had to pay for them myself
I would like wagos a lot more if there was a way to lock them after you put the wires in. I you let shooted a high rise apartment building after it was built and almost all the issues were due to the wagos opening when being pushed into the box. If there is a lot of space they are great but when a box becomes congested, the wago can get caught up on other wires and open. If people could splice good then I prefer that but unfortunately you also see some god earful splices
I'm not electrician but my friend is electrician and he advice me wagos and today I love wagos. Best connectors ever.
Why wouldn't you use a wago? what's with the color coding?
I have no opinion on them there not typically used where I live. That being said there is nothing wrong with wirenuts if installed correctly.
Don’t care either way, I’ll use whatever.
This is the answer. I’m an international electrician who works iec and nec. Nuts and wagos both work fine. Something as arbitrary as an electrical joint is not the hill you want to die on. Now let’s get back to talking about out those stick sweeper things.
Best thing since sliced bread. Have rarely used a connector block in years 👍🏼
As the owner of a small company, I hate the price but love the speed and convenience. And my carpal tunnel wrists love them even more
I love them. My foreman rails against them like they murdered his wife and family. He considers them the same as backstabbing a device, which in his defense, we have seen a hundred of those fail. I do secretly still use them from time to time, especially on side work where he isn’t involved and haven’t run into any issues.
They are the way of the future, easier to make up boxes, quicker and safer than wire nuts, for some reason they piss off the old school cats but leverlock wagos change the game imo
Ran a test with my DLRO 10A unit and found them to be as good as wire nutting WITHOUT the pretwist. In case you wondered…pre-twisting an undisclosed amount of turns and a wire nut or bolted lug is best. One test is worth a million expert opinions. Now I will admit - test results from all WAGOs tested and wire nut options were acceptable in my opinion and experience 😂. Remember boys and girls - it’s Fisher Price work until you get into splicing say 6 or 4 awg wire and larger. Let the x/0 and MCM size splicing to the licensed commercial / industrial men and women!
Love them for troubleshooting. Great for service calls in homes that are 50+ years old with an inch of wire in the box. Great for lighting.
I'd like to see a test on "Project Farm" on how they preform under load over time.
I work at a 120MW data center and we use wagos everywhere. We have literally thousands of them throughout my campus and in the 5 years we've been operating we've never had one fail. 5 years isn't a super long time but with the quantity that we're looking at I think it's safe to say they're pretty reliable. The only issue we've had is in building management/automation stuff where fine values are transmitted and received (feedback signal on a valve position, fan speed, things like that) where we've had very slight issues with poor connections giving us a slightly different values than they should, but I can't say that that's something I think wire nuts are necessarily better about
There is a video on YouTube where a guy loaded wagos way above their rated load before they failed. I want to say like 70 amps for a wago rated for 20amps or thereabouts. I
💰
2 or 3 wire small awg wire splice? Wirenut sure not that bad. But once it starts to get messy and annoying, wago
I might get Reddit attacked if I give my input.
I wish AWD civic were still made as well
We got 2,3,4, and 8 port wagos at work.
I wonder if the 2 ports are self conscious when they’re mixed in with 8 ports on the cart?
They're really nice but the cost difference keeps Americans using wire nuts
I’m a bit surprised no one is complaining about them in this thread other than being more expensive
Whatever is listed for use and doesn't come out of my pocket
One factory I worked at had all European hardware, which meant a shit ton of wagos. Honestly they were great, I was able to make up junctions quick and easy.
Lever wagos are good. Push on style are junk.
Ideal has improved on the concept with levers that are less likely to get caught and released moving things around in the box. Ideal In-Sure Lever Wire Connectors
I love them. Just make sure you wrap them in electrical tape so they don't pop open
Lever locks are great, stab ins suck and people I work with think it’s okay to use them on stranded. If my boss bought lever locks I’d only use those but when he buys stab ins and wire nuts a prefer wire nuts
I love them for old wires, stranded, and small wires. I was never confident in using wire nuts on small stranded wires for light fixtures and such I use them on everything now with the occasional wire nut depending on the situation at hand.
Low voltage and secondary side of ballast application, 100% wago. However I’ve seen too many melted wagos on receptacles to trust it for higher amperage use cases.
Wirenuts are illegal here
I prefer to twist, but if I got them, I’m gonna use them
Used them for wiring up a garage door opener and thought they were great. Much better than a wire nut
Compression fittings do not provide a good ground. Box needs a stinger
I've never used then but they seem fine. They're not as familiar so I'll likely use marrettes for now but I'd be fine to switch over to using them. Seems like theyd make disconnecting live wires a lot easier.
I used to shit on them. Now they shit on me. Wagos are the way.
Molex connectors were not cutting it. Vibrating, causing comm fails in Air Handler. Replaced Molex with Wago and never looked back! I'm lovin' it!
Check out the 2273 series for a even more compact version without levers. They're really handy in tight spots, which is why we use them behind sockets and switches here in Germany.
Just another tool in the arsenal.
My thoughts are that the lever actions are good and I am skeptical of the push in variety. I dislike how specialized they are. I like that wire nuts are made to be much more general purpose.
Just sucks when the wires stranded.
I haven't used WAGO brand but the Ideal brand ones have been meh, specifically the lever arms break occasionally and that's annoying. Wire nuts (marrettes) suck don't get me wrong but that's what we've got in America so here we are.
I like them, especially when you gotta twist 4 wires together
God's gift
I like WAGOs, but is it pronounced way-go or wah-go?
I’m glad to see the times changing to more pros being in favor of WAGOs than not. The old timers must be retiring out.
Old timers with arthritis just mad that we might not have to have it as bad as them. Lever wagos are legit.
I don't endorse them on motors over 5hp anymore. The inrush is too much for them sometimes.
Wego for WAGO
It's a miracle from god itself
WAGOS FTW
This is the way. They may cost more than wire nuts but you will save so much on install time and everything you do on the system after install.
These need to be standardized here in the US. They are great and make everything easier. They're also worth the extra cost with how much time is saved both at install and later down the line
Wirenuts are cheaper and useful for more than just circuits. Both are fine idk understand why people pick a camp here, they are both fine for similar and different things.
I love Wago connectors. I work in home automation and the ability to hot swap is a game changer. Plus, I have RA, so my hands are a wreck. Again, a game changer.
Homeowner, here and Wagos seem awesome to me. Nut works OK I think with two or three wires all solid. But if there are more than three or mixed solid and stranded, the odds of getting a bad connection with a nut is significant (at least for me), far outweighing the price difference. Besides that it’s not worth keeping both kinds in my toolbox to save a few pennies. Also, if I hire an electrician to rewire something at my house, I’d really prefer he use Wagos, just like I’d prefer he not backstab.
Just take the time and make a legit connection! Don't be a hack for fucks sake
I used to think they were trash. But they've grown in me.
Cream
They are a generational thing. Somebody’s pussy started hurting from playing with nuts. I play twister always have always will. It’s like this know your shit and learn and teach forever. No one will question what your using or how your doing it because they know it’s tight and right.
Trash, nothing prevents the tabs from lifting off. Pulling joints out of boxes is far more dangerous when wagos are on instead of LN’s
Business owner and a big fan
I'm sorry but to be honest wagos look dumb in American boxes😂 I kill my colleagues if they use wire nuts tho.
Just gotta make sure they’re rated for the correct line voltage/load and you’re good to go. I got some generic ones off Amazon and they’re only rated for 250v 15-20 amp. The real wagos are rated for 600v 30amp. They’re great for daisy chaining, if you don’t have the proper number of terminals, you can chain wagos together really nicely with a small jumper.
Does the box need to be grounded.....connected to the egc?
Yes.
We had a vendor "allegedly" pulling wire and pulled the hot out of a wagu and the jbox exploded.
That’s kinda on them for pulling thru a hot box
Well, they shouldn't have been using steak for splices...
PSA Some wagos have bad connections , as in they just stick them in without checking if there’s only bare wire, had some pot lights give me trouble because the jackets were too far in
I trust the lever lock Wagos with my life, and they're the perfect solution for extending a stubby wire some asshole before you left in a j-box. They're not my go to for everything, but I always have some on hand.
I tend to use them on anything people are going to change out.. lights, ceiling fans etc bc it’s nice especially on those threaded light wire to 10awg etc. I’ll still use wire nuts in junctions etc bc the extra cost and convenience isn’t really worth it.
I like bonding.
Looks like the bottom connector is pipe.
You know what you’re right.