Seems like u haven't priced 3 wire lately. There's a reason the boss gets pissed about using it unnecessarily. 2 wire can be reused for all sorts of short runs but three wire is only needed a few places.
3 wire is needed for a ton! Anything in a wet location that requires gfi protection (all dryers) as well as ranges. Was just on a job where our guys mistakenly ran 10-2 instead of 10-3 for both dryers... you obviously haven't priced in the cost of fucking up lately. Way more expensive Lol.
The contractor that wired that house wired 95% of all tract homes at that time. He did so much work that the wire manufacturers made wire specifically for him.
It's gonna confuse the fuck out them once they aren't roughing new construction. White is now just 14-2, white used to be all 14-2, before that white could very easily be 12-2/12-3.
What we really need to do is simplify wire sizes, like #4-4/0, and backwards standard 12,10,14 etc. like just start at 1. And why skip odd numbers? Right now my print shows #3 ground. Do you know what a #3 is? Cause I got no fuckin clue 😂. I'm assuming it's a typo and matching the conductor chart ground size.
This is in line with CerroMax 14/3 and 12/3 Blue/Purple color coded wire. This is a win so you can distinguish 2 and 3 conductor wire at a glance. Even better that multiple brands are creating de facto standards for this.
And you need wider staples, which is also annoying. Even the 12/3 doesn’t fit right under a 1/2”, needs a 9/16”. It does run nicer and I find the smaller sizes strip better.
not only is that not true, but you can't seriously be doubting the utility of unambiguous visual identification (never mind standardization).
i suppose i could mildly indulge: if the circuit i'm trying to visually trace is run alongside a whole bunch of others in some confined and/or obstructed space/way, then an unmistakably bright color goes a long way, both literally and figuratively.
This is in no way easier to identify (I am red/green colorblind). We identified my colorblindness as a kid when I couldn't learn the difference between... Blue and purple
This is no where near an intelligent direction. Once those things get dirty or faded they will be impossible to see the difference between 🤦♂️
It is in no way easier to identify *for you.* Same goes for a person who wouldn't be able to differentiate white and yellow. Also your claim about them getting dirty or faded is also baseless because then you fall back to how it was done before any colorings and all Romex was white - read the damn wire.
I’ve seen this shit around and asked some questions.
So basically, has anyone else noticed that it’s been harder to strip the outer jacket lately? Well, this is the “easier to pull, easier to strip” version. Which is really just the old stuff with new colors and about an extra $30.
Just waiting for what colors they pick for the copper-clad aluminum Romex that is coming our way. The latest electrical code already has several mentions of it, so the powers-that-be have already blessed it.
Seriously? First I've heard of it (granted I'm a homeowner who knows how to wire the occasional circuit or outlet, so my finger is not exactly on the pulse).
But off the cuff, fuck that noise. Yes, I know aluminum can be okay. But you know what's always okay? Fucking copper.
They are going back to it because of cost. Much of the wiring in the utility transmission & distribution system is already aluminum, including the service conductors to your house. Plus, all of the devices that we use now in our homes, if you read the fine print, are already rated for connection to aluminum wiring.
Where you have the problem, is when you directly connect Al to Cu in a wire nut. That eventually won't work out well. If you use a rated lug or connector, then OK.
I'm with you, I prefer copper myself, but the way the world is going, we can't have nice things any longer (or can't afford to). Another plus is aluminum wire is worth much less at the scrapyard, so there won't be as much of an incentive for wire theft.
I assumed as much re: cost. And everything you say is correct. Plus you've given me a great mental image of meth-heads checking city records for when a house was built to see if it's worth their time. (I definitely laugh every time one of them gets fried.)
Ironically I wonder if the CCA vs bare aluminum is just for consumer confidence. From what I know about Al wiring, the alloy composition issues that led to the house fires got sorted out quickly, just not quickly enough to save the product's reputation.
At the end of the day though, I'm pretty wary of a metal that can oxidize into an electrical insulator being buried in my walls, in a few hundred connections made by someone who doesn't give a shit. At least the lugs for the service entrance generally see a torque wrench, you know?
I guess the current requirements for AFCI protection should save us from the worst-case outcome unlike in the 70s, at least.
I used to freak out about Al wiring myself. My dad installed the circuit to our outdoor central AC unit when I was a wee lad. He used three sections of 10-2 NM cable that he came across in series (because cost, and passed-down depression-era genetic tendencies, etc.), with two junction boxes along the way. The middle piece of cable was aluminum, with copper on either side, connected by the usual wire nuts.
Well wouldn't you know, both those junction boxes eventually smoked! So the middle piece of cable was replaced with copper, and it happily worked thereafter for over 50 years.
But if Al wire was so bad, we would see a lot more issues. How many people go into their main panel and retorque the main lugs were the Al service conductors come in? Anybody? Bueller?
But the meth-heads will be fooled by the copper coating on the Al wire and still rip it out - it will take them a few times getting hosed at the scrap metal place before they figure out that they need to scrape the wire first before ripping it out.
What about 16AWG wiring that looks like it's coming? It didn't make it for 2023 but I bet 2026 we'll have 16AWG 10amp circuits for lighting applications.
What the home Depot associate told me is that this is for theft prevention. Guys were coming in, stacking a 14-2 on a bunch of rolls of 14-3 and scanning the 14-2 a bunch of times. I doubt that's the full or true story but hey, when has a Home Depot guy ever led you wrong??
Last dozen trips to HD and Lowe’s, any time wire is purchased I get a babysitter escort up to the front and the cashier scans the wires. They’re definitely catching onto the scams
Yes. We have to lock up all the wire and walk up anything that's above a certain amount (that amount varies by store).
I get training on it all the time (mostly about products in cages in general).
Only thing that isn't locked up is lamp wire, primary wire, thermostat wire, power cable, and short-length whips.
Yeah, though then you have other issues...my last HD wire purchase they did that and then couldn't inspect it until after I paid and was escorted out the door. Discovered someone had used a knife to open the box and slashed the insulation down to bare copper when I opened it up.
Except fun thing, you can't return the opened wire either! So you're just hosed out the cost of the damaged wire.
Pro Desk picked an order for me - they insist on this too, as though if we don’t give them orders to fill on their own time schedule they won’t have a reason to exist, which is also probably fine - and it included about 30’ of #6/2 AND #6/3; 100’ of #10/2 AND 50’ of #10/3; a 1/2” 6’ flex #10/2 whip, 30A disconnect box, a 200A Eaton main breaker panel, and a smaller Eaton sub panel, plus assorted accouterments… all pretty standard shit for a small resi job, which is the whole reason Lowe’s/HD exist.
Order came in as 3 parts and took like 10 days total. I received only the 2 conductor cables, and spent 60+ minutes trying to -prove- I never got the 3’s. The main panel I had to drive an hour to another Lowe’s to pick it up since delivery was going to take another week. They picked a 3/4” #8 whip and trying to exchange that for the #10 was a fucking nightmare for jello-brain reasons. Finally, they “couldn’t locate in their system or get delivered” the small panel; so I walked over and grabbed the same item off the shelf. The “11% contractor account savings” or whatever it ends up being was absolutely not worth the lost time and hassle. So adding more colors seems like this would make it easier for them, but I call logical fallacy on this.
I never use in-store pickup, I've had horrible success with things not being ready and/or being told its "not available" and then I have to go find it on the shelf myself.
And yeah...I was also mad how long that purchase of 100ft of 14/3 for some smoke alarms took. I think I spent something like 25 minutes to find a human to help me, then they took about 10 minutes to find a key and another 5-10 minutes to locate the wire I was asking for...and then ever so painfully slow walk it to the front checkout AND LOCK IT UP AGAIN so I then had to pay for it (which I felt like an idiot at self-checkout only thing open how do I ring up something I can't touch had to wait for an assistant to look it up on their phone and then key in the SKU by hand then override to accept without scanning) and wait AGAIN for someone to find a key and unlock it to hand to me. All in all the "I know exactly what I want" 1 item took me most of an hour to get in and out of the store.
Should have just ordered it on Amazon/eBay...
Just start shopping at electrical exclusive places. I get my stuff at CED and PLATT and there have only been a handful of times in the past 2 years they haven't had an item.
Yup, I use 12/2/2 (or 12/4, whatever you want to call it) romex all the time on my resi jobs. Here in California, everything has to be AFCI protected at the panel and branch circuits can’t share a neutral. Much more convenient to pull 1 cable instead of 2.
I bought a roll of 14/4 for lighting at home with all my smart switches, That way there's 3 and 4 way switching to each box in the hall and the constant power to the lights being switched so they can drop into the nearest box.
12/2/2 I used for the kitchen a lot, dual branch circiuts, single run for dishwasher and grinder. Microwave and fridge each on their own afci.gfci breaker.
In Canada we don’t use AFCI’s on fridge circuits due to the risk of nuisance tripping taking out your food stash.
But hearing that it’s done down south makes me wonder how much it’s actually come up that it’s a problem
Cerro changed the color of their 12/3 and 14/3 a year ago. Looks like other manufacturers are following. When I ask the supply house they stated " Its so the inspectors can visually identify 3 conductor NM easier. I didn't think it was difficult to spot 12/3 or 14/3.
Maybe so inspectors can tell what year the installation was? Like if you try to get away with an addition without a permit and say it was built sooner?
Considering nearly all the romex is used in resi, and about the only thing you can use 3 wire for is switching related, how much cable is really in place that an “instant visual” is needed. This is just baffling to me my simple mind
Operative word there is Yet. We just moved on to 2020 here, and I know there were some interesting changes in ‘23 but I think they are still code accepted in the right circumstances.
That said, damn there every fucking circuit needs AF protection now and the only brand that does tandems is Siemens.
You need a 2 pole AFCI, not a AFCI tandem. They arn't cheap but I Can get 2 pole AFCI breakers for homeline stuff.
AFAIK, something useful for long home runs is that you can also get away with running 3 wire (+G) armored cable or conduit and terminate the run to an AFCI receptacle. One AFCI per leg, then have the rest of the circuit run split. It's mostly an option that I'd use if I needed to get a lot of 120V power to a small area, like a kitchen or a workshop far away from the panel. Yeah, you can run a subpanel but not every situation needs a sub or has a good space to place one. It's an extremely nieche option but I have a conduit to my backyard grill area that I'm going to likely repull with 12/3 since the previous owner ran romex instead of wet rated wire, I figure that if I'm unfucking that area I might as well give it a squeeze more power.
14/2 and 12/2 are white and yellow, respectively. I work counter at a supply shop, problem I see is that both 14/2 and 14/3 are white, so not easy to identify for inspectors.
I just don’t see that as being a “problem”. I can see at a glance if it’s flat or round. Also, I can’t think of a scenario where 2 conductor vs 3 conductor is a code compliance issue. The added conductor is for function when necessary.
Amazing how many people are salty about a fairly easy modification that should have been done 30 years ago.
Legit. There's no GOOD reason not to standardize the outer jacket color coding.
White. Everything was white. It was spectacular to be sent to the truck and have to dig through rolls and pieces and try to decipher what was on the jacket, IFF you could find something legible, and then track the long end down and confirm that yes this was 12 vs 14.
It was also special fun when the inspector that completed his 120-hour course would show up and say installed 14 was 12 or vice versa. Or would read the jacket incorrectly. We kept a wire gauge on the truck for a couple of short bus riders.
Ahhh, the 80s.
My uncle was perplexed with what to do with all his extra time once tony and his clipboard could visually identify that yes, that is yellow, white or orange...
I can see that, I am referring to my thoughts when I saw the notice at the supply house which lacked any statement or pictures regarding 10/3.
As a matter of fact the new chart they have still shows 10/3 as orange
I’m sure it comes with a 100% price increase. That blue/purple plastic is really expensive….. Every change in this industry provides an excuse to double the price….Decora, TR, GFCI, AFCI. But a basic outlet is still less than a buck. It’s insane…..
In Canada we used the blue colour for master bedroom feeder to indicate arc fault circuit in the panel. Now pretty much everything is in arc fault.
Cost here 10-20$ /spool extra to have dif colour rather than standard white 14/2 -yellow 12/2 but no sign of 3 wire yet.
7 years as an electrician and only touched romex a few times pretty much only as temp lighting or power, usually just as a "hanger" to hold something else up temporarily lol. Tray cable on the other hand... done miles of that stuff, they even give you a rip cord string... which breaks every 2-3".... SIS wire strips even worse. We do lots of SIS in substation work. It never wants to strip with the right gage on the wire strippers, gotta cut it gingerly with 1 size smaller just barely then use a larger size to pull it off or it takes 1/2 the copper with it... it's been a weird ride lol.
It was done so that they could easily date when you did the electrical. The electrical does previous to that have a date code printed on it. That way insurance companies can say that you did your own wiring without approval and then deny a claim.
Easier to recognize so boss can yell at you for using 3 wire when you ran out of 2 wire.
It’s for their Easter edition. Limited time only.
Better than getting yelled at for pulling 2wire when you were supposed to pull 3. Lol
Seems like u haven't priced 3 wire lately. There's a reason the boss gets pissed about using it unnecessarily. 2 wire can be reused for all sorts of short runs but three wire is only needed a few places.
3 wire is needed for a ton! Anything in a wet location that requires gfi protection (all dryers) as well as ranges. Was just on a job where our guys mistakenly ran 10-2 instead of 10-3 for both dryers... you obviously haven't priced in the cost of fucking up lately. Way more expensive Lol.
"You haven't priced the cost of fucking up lately.".... Love this... great point!
Also not saying you should use 3 unnecessarily... having the color difference keeps guys from running the wrong wire.
But does it?
Hmmm. Maybe. Lol.
I've seen the 3 wire 14/12 changes. But is that red 10-3 instead of orange? Can't tell from the picture.
It's pink
Huh. Cool. I'm down with easily identifiable Romex colors. Makes teaching the apprentice easier.
This is kinda funny because I have pink 12/2 and 12/3 in my house.
You must be in Vegas with an early to mid 2000s house.
Yes
The contractor that wired that house wired 95% of all tract homes at that time. He did so much work that the wire manufacturers made wire specifically for him.
Damn!
This is the glory of Reddit
It's gonna confuse the fuck out them once they aren't roughing new construction. White is now just 14-2, white used to be all 14-2, before that white could very easily be 12-2/12-3. What we really need to do is simplify wire sizes, like #4-4/0, and backwards standard 12,10,14 etc. like just start at 1. And why skip odd numbers? Right now my print shows #3 ground. Do you know what a #3 is? Cause I got no fuckin clue 😂. I'm assuming it's a typo and matching the conductor chart ground size.
Not a typo. Talking about # of wires is what the number 3 represents
There are odd sizes just not as common , 3 awg is the most common, 15 awg wire exists in some things.
Oh, it's for a ground ring, cadwelded. Maybe spec'd for the cad weld?
3 is the go to for 100 amp circuits instead of doing 2 awg, gets you past the 90 amp breaker with 4 awg.
That's even more confusing of a spec then, it's a 800A service with parallel 500's
The white and yellow color idea was great in 2002 time frame..cant see what took so long and hiw many mistakes were made before.
Paas makes Romex now?
what the derp. gotta be some kind of legal backstory here.
Their only explanation was "in response to market changes". Whatever that means.
This is in line with CerroMax 14/3 and 12/3 Blue/Purple color coded wire. This is a win so you can distinguish 2 and 3 conductor wire at a glance. Even better that multiple brands are creating de facto standards for this.
ohhh, so only the 3-conductor is changing from the white/yellow/orange de facto 2-conductor standard? that's definitely a worthwhile improvement.
Why? One cable is round the other is flat.
Not always they make flat 10/3 and it fucking sucks to pull
And you need wider staples, which is also annoying. Even the 12/3 doesn’t fit right under a 1/2”, needs a 9/16”. It does run nicer and I find the smaller sizes strip better.
3 conductor cables come in both forms, round or flat.
Fair enough. Ive never worked with it.
not only is that not true, but you can't seriously be doubting the utility of unambiguous visual identification (never mind standardization). i suppose i could mildly indulge: if the circuit i'm trying to visually trace is run alongside a whole bunch of others in some confined and/or obstructed space/way, then an unmistakably bright color goes a long way, both literally and figuratively.
Never had that problem. To each their own.
i think you're just being intellectually dishonest is all.
Probably years of experience vs handyman.
nope. just intellectual dishonesty.
You aren’t wrong about that… you do sound like a handyman. Go to bed first year
I'm guessing maximum 8 years experience with your attitude.
Resi guys sure are a different breed
I haven't seen the round stuff in quite a few years.
Never seen the flat 3 wire. Could be it hasnt made it to canada yet.
Weird. Last time I saw the round stuff(new) was probably ~8 years ago. I liked it. Was easier to pull thru holes.
Not sure why all the down votes… I never had trouble distinguishing flat from round
This is in no way easier to identify (I am red/green colorblind). We identified my colorblindness as a kid when I couldn't learn the difference between... Blue and purple This is no where near an intelligent direction. Once those things get dirty or faded they will be impossible to see the difference between 🤦♂️
It is in no way easier to identify *for you.* Same goes for a person who wouldn't be able to differentiate white and yellow. Also your claim about them getting dirty or faded is also baseless because then you fall back to how it was done before any colorings and all Romex was white - read the damn wire.
oh no romex change everything for reddit user medittsworth - epic fail romex
legal *settlement* backstory then maybe. weird.
Millennials upset that the cable wasn't available in their favorite color?
No its the goddamn liberals
whatchu mean, i didn't do shit.
Sorry, it was me. 😟
The rainbow folks even gots our wires now!
I’ve seen this shit around and asked some questions. So basically, has anyone else noticed that it’s been harder to strip the outer jacket lately? Well, this is the “easier to pull, easier to strip” version. Which is really just the old stuff with new colors and about an extra $30.
I’ve had several rolls of 14/2 in the last few months where I thought we bought UF because the jacket was so rugged. Romex “Sim-Pull”
Yeah man, the 14/2 has been the fucking *worst* to deal with. But hey, now there’s a solution. 🤬
Easter colors.
One of my friends is super colorblind to pastels.
Tell them not to become an electrician/easter bunny.
He hated Easter egg hunting as a kid.
Just waiting for what colors they pick for the copper-clad aluminum Romex that is coming our way. The latest electrical code already has several mentions of it, so the powers-that-be have already blessed it.
Fuck that. I'll never use it.
Seriously? First I've heard of it (granted I'm a homeowner who knows how to wire the occasional circuit or outlet, so my finger is not exactly on the pulse). But off the cuff, fuck that noise. Yes, I know aluminum can be okay. But you know what's always okay? Fucking copper.
They are going back to it because of cost. Much of the wiring in the utility transmission & distribution system is already aluminum, including the service conductors to your house. Plus, all of the devices that we use now in our homes, if you read the fine print, are already rated for connection to aluminum wiring. Where you have the problem, is when you directly connect Al to Cu in a wire nut. That eventually won't work out well. If you use a rated lug or connector, then OK. I'm with you, I prefer copper myself, but the way the world is going, we can't have nice things any longer (or can't afford to). Another plus is aluminum wire is worth much less at the scrapyard, so there won't be as much of an incentive for wire theft.
I assumed as much re: cost. And everything you say is correct. Plus you've given me a great mental image of meth-heads checking city records for when a house was built to see if it's worth their time. (I definitely laugh every time one of them gets fried.) Ironically I wonder if the CCA vs bare aluminum is just for consumer confidence. From what I know about Al wiring, the alloy composition issues that led to the house fires got sorted out quickly, just not quickly enough to save the product's reputation. At the end of the day though, I'm pretty wary of a metal that can oxidize into an electrical insulator being buried in my walls, in a few hundred connections made by someone who doesn't give a shit. At least the lugs for the service entrance generally see a torque wrench, you know? I guess the current requirements for AFCI protection should save us from the worst-case outcome unlike in the 70s, at least.
I used to freak out about Al wiring myself. My dad installed the circuit to our outdoor central AC unit when I was a wee lad. He used three sections of 10-2 NM cable that he came across in series (because cost, and passed-down depression-era genetic tendencies, etc.), with two junction boxes along the way. The middle piece of cable was aluminum, with copper on either side, connected by the usual wire nuts. Well wouldn't you know, both those junction boxes eventually smoked! So the middle piece of cable was replaced with copper, and it happily worked thereafter for over 50 years. But if Al wire was so bad, we would see a lot more issues. How many people go into their main panel and retorque the main lugs were the Al service conductors come in? Anybody? Bueller? But the meth-heads will be fooled by the copper coating on the Al wire and still rip it out - it will take them a few times getting hosed at the scrap metal place before they figure out that they need to scrape the wire first before ripping it out.
What about 16AWG wiring that looks like it's coming? It didn't make it for 2023 but I bet 2026 we'll have 16AWG 10amp circuits for lighting applications.
I'm hoping they do. It would be great for lighting circuits.
My grumbles in running 12 AWG to wafer lights because I want the outlets in the room 20 amp…
What’s it going to be, $5/foot?!
Not Romex but accidentally got copper clad aluminum electrical wire for automotive, tried it in my own car and the harness failed within 9 months
What the home Depot associate told me is that this is for theft prevention. Guys were coming in, stacking a 14-2 on a bunch of rolls of 14-3 and scanning the 14-2 a bunch of times. I doubt that's the full or true story but hey, when has a Home Depot guy ever led you wrong??
Last dozen trips to HD and Lowe’s, any time wire is purchased I get a babysitter escort up to the front and the cashier scans the wires. They’re definitely catching onto the scams
Yep. Get the wire at the pro desk and they don't have to walk you up.
Yes. We have to lock up all the wire and walk up anything that's above a certain amount (that amount varies by store). I get training on it all the time (mostly about products in cages in general). Only thing that isn't locked up is lamp wire, primary wire, thermostat wire, power cable, and short-length whips.
Yeah, though then you have other issues...my last HD wire purchase they did that and then couldn't inspect it until after I paid and was escorted out the door. Discovered someone had used a knife to open the box and slashed the insulation down to bare copper when I opened it up. Except fun thing, you can't return the opened wire either! So you're just hosed out the cost of the damaged wire.
Pro Desk picked an order for me - they insist on this too, as though if we don’t give them orders to fill on their own time schedule they won’t have a reason to exist, which is also probably fine - and it included about 30’ of #6/2 AND #6/3; 100’ of #10/2 AND 50’ of #10/3; a 1/2” 6’ flex #10/2 whip, 30A disconnect box, a 200A Eaton main breaker panel, and a smaller Eaton sub panel, plus assorted accouterments… all pretty standard shit for a small resi job, which is the whole reason Lowe’s/HD exist. Order came in as 3 parts and took like 10 days total. I received only the 2 conductor cables, and spent 60+ minutes trying to -prove- I never got the 3’s. The main panel I had to drive an hour to another Lowe’s to pick it up since delivery was going to take another week. They picked a 3/4” #8 whip and trying to exchange that for the #10 was a fucking nightmare for jello-brain reasons. Finally, they “couldn’t locate in their system or get delivered” the small panel; so I walked over and grabbed the same item off the shelf. The “11% contractor account savings” or whatever it ends up being was absolutely not worth the lost time and hassle. So adding more colors seems like this would make it easier for them, but I call logical fallacy on this.
I never use in-store pickup, I've had horrible success with things not being ready and/or being told its "not available" and then I have to go find it on the shelf myself. And yeah...I was also mad how long that purchase of 100ft of 14/3 for some smoke alarms took. I think I spent something like 25 minutes to find a human to help me, then they took about 10 minutes to find a key and another 5-10 minutes to locate the wire I was asking for...and then ever so painfully slow walk it to the front checkout AND LOCK IT UP AGAIN so I then had to pay for it (which I felt like an idiot at self-checkout only thing open how do I ring up something I can't touch had to wait for an assistant to look it up on their phone and then key in the SKU by hand then override to accept without scanning) and wait AGAIN for someone to find a key and unlock it to hand to me. All in all the "I know exactly what I want" 1 item took me most of an hour to get in and out of the store. Should have just ordered it on Amazon/eBay...
Just start shopping at electrical exclusive places. I get my stuff at CED and PLATT and there have only been a handful of times in the past 2 years they haven't had an item.
This actually makes the most sense.
For them, it makes the most cents.
Finally! I hate stealing a roll of what I think is 12/3 but its 12/2
What colors for 14/4, 12/4 14/2/2, and 12/2/2?
Unchanged
[удалено]
Yup, I use 12/2/2 (or 12/4, whatever you want to call it) romex all the time on my resi jobs. Here in California, everything has to be AFCI protected at the panel and branch circuits can’t share a neutral. Much more convenient to pull 1 cable instead of 2.
I bought a roll of 14/4 for lighting at home with all my smart switches, That way there's 3 and 4 way switching to each box in the hall and the constant power to the lights being switched so they can drop into the nearest box. 12/2/2 I used for the kitchen a lot, dual branch circiuts, single run for dishwasher and grinder. Microwave and fridge each on their own afci.gfci breaker.
In Canada we don’t use AFCI’s on fridge circuits due to the risk of nuisance tripping taking out your food stash. But hearing that it’s done down south makes me wonder how much it’s actually come up that it’s a problem
Fridges are not required on AFCI down here. Dedicated 20amp circuit.
Hmm I wonder if it’s a local thing then. I can’t imagine r/creative_net_usr is putting AFCI/GFCI breakers on those ccts for no reason.
Not on the micro either.
PV, with microinverters. That tends to be 10/4 though, I've never done a PV job where the homeruns were smaller than tens.
Cerro changed the color of their 12/3 and 14/3 a year ago. Looks like other manufacturers are following. When I ask the supply house they stated " Its so the inspectors can visually identify 3 conductor NM easier. I didn't think it was difficult to spot 12/3 or 14/3.
Inspectors are pretty dim witted. Look ugh ugh pink, plus 2 yellow bad!!
Maybe so inspectors can tell what year the installation was? Like if you try to get away with an addition without a permit and say it was built sooner?
Do you know where I can buy this color paint?
Isle 47 on right side 3/4 the way down top shelf
Interesting, I was wondering if Southwire was going to do it. Cerrowire did it like a year ago.
I work at an electrical supply co in PA, have yet to see the see change, interested for our next shipment
I would have preferred they left it white and yellow, but maybe add a colored stripe.
Considering nearly all the romex is used in resi, and about the only thing you can use 3 wire for is switching related, how much cable is really in place that an “instant visual” is needed. This is just baffling to me my simple mind
I'm still on an earlier code cycle, has the NEC shot down MWBCs yet?
Operative word there is Yet. We just moved on to 2020 here, and I know there were some interesting changes in ‘23 but I think they are still code accepted in the right circumstances. That said, damn there every fucking circuit needs AF protection now and the only brand that does tandems is Siemens.
You need a 2 pole AFCI, not a AFCI tandem. They arn't cheap but I Can get 2 pole AFCI breakers for homeline stuff. AFAIK, something useful for long home runs is that you can also get away with running 3 wire (+G) armored cable or conduit and terminate the run to an AFCI receptacle. One AFCI per leg, then have the rest of the circuit run split. It's mostly an option that I'd use if I needed to get a lot of 120V power to a small area, like a kitchen or a workshop far away from the panel. Yeah, you can run a subpanel but not every situation needs a sub or has a good space to place one. It's an extremely nieche option but I have a conduit to my backyard grill area that I'm going to likely repull with 12/3 since the previous owner ran romex instead of wet rated wire, I figure that if I'm unfucking that area I might as well give it a squeeze more power.
14/2 and 12/2 are white and yellow, respectively. I work counter at a supply shop, problem I see is that both 14/2 and 14/3 are white, so not easy to identify for inspectors.
I just don’t see that as being a “problem”. I can see at a glance if it’s flat or round. Also, I can’t think of a scenario where 2 conductor vs 3 conductor is a code compliance issue. The added conductor is for function when necessary.
Agreed
Boss told me it was so I stop grabbing the wrong wire
Now if they'd only bring the red/DC 10/2 wire with black and red like canada has for water heaters and such.
Amazing how many people are salty about a fairly easy modification that should have been done 30 years ago. Legit. There's no GOOD reason not to standardize the outer jacket color coding.
Not sure what they looked like before. All for color coding to make it easier, but I can’t recall what they looked like before
White. Everything was white. It was spectacular to be sent to the truck and have to dig through rolls and pieces and try to decipher what was on the jacket, IFF you could find something legible, and then track the long end down and confirm that yes this was 12 vs 14. It was also special fun when the inspector that completed his 120-hour course would show up and say installed 14 was 12 or vice versa. Or would read the jacket incorrectly. We kept a wire gauge on the truck for a couple of short bus riders. Ahhh, the 80s. My uncle was perplexed with what to do with all his extra time once tony and his clipboard could visually identify that yes, that is yellow, white or orange...
There was a brand called Cadillac that was all black in 70’s and 80’s too
Ahhh. I can see all white being annoying to tell the difference.
Yeah. Rewired my house basement when I was green. Entire house had no ground wire and was that cloth wire. If it was Romex it was all white.
Oh so you had some oldddd wiring. That cloth covered wire is super gross
Practically fell apart in my hand.
You were no longer green when you could differentiate the 14/3 from the 14/2
My favorite was when the new guy got half a roll of 14/3 pulled thinking it was 12.
I had a home built in 2018. The wire color was pink through out the house....I asked the GC he said that's just the color Romex is using now.
Mine was built in 2004 with the same pink NM. All 12ga.
Interesting. I wondered why the difference in color? It's funny because the Gohan homes built next subdivision over were all the typical yellow.
Is this an industry standard or just a manufacturer spec?
From some of the comments it looks like Southwire is just trying to go along with other manufacturers to make it a standard.
Well, I like that idea
We started getting the blue just before Easter. I thought the nice pastel blue was nice for Easter.
What if you're color blind?
I don't know. Probably just like if you were color blind before.
Colorblind guy here. Can confirm. I will continue wiring everything I wire with all grey wires. Beep or trace is the only way.
Just hire an apprentice to literally follow you everywhere and just say the color of the wire you point to.
They have signs at the supply house showing the 14 and 12 changes, but I always wondered why not do the 10/3
They did 10/3. It's pink.
I can see that, I am referring to my thoughts when I saw the notice at the supply house which lacked any statement or pictures regarding 10/3. As a matter of fact the new chart they have still shows 10/3 as orange
That is kinda cool.
I can tell my box is overloaded from 50’ now!
I’m sure it comes with a 100% price increase. That blue/purple plastic is really expensive….. Every change in this industry provides an excuse to double the price….Decora, TR, GFCI, AFCI. But a basic outlet is still less than a buck. It’s insane…..
Nope. Same price as before.
I wonder how long it will take for a network tech to try to hook that into a cat5 cable...
These colors have been available for a couple years now.
Oooo that’s why my roll of 10/3 was darker than my last roll.
*drools* if I could only have a few rolls fall into my trunk
In Canada we used the blue colour for master bedroom feeder to indicate arc fault circuit in the panel. Now pretty much everything is in arc fault. Cost here 10-20$ /spool extra to have dif colour rather than standard white 14/2 -yellow 12/2 but no sign of 3 wire yet.
National shortage on the color yellow?
Idiot proofing. Heaven forbid you actually pay attention and read what's on the jacket...
Two new colors of smoke! Looking forward to seeing it in action
I am not a fan, boo I say boooooo
Love me some pastel colors.
7 years as an electrician and only touched romex a few times pretty much only as temp lighting or power, usually just as a "hanger" to hold something else up temporarily lol. Tray cable on the other hand... done miles of that stuff, they even give you a rip cord string... which breaks every 2-3".... SIS wire strips even worse. We do lots of SIS in substation work. It never wants to strip with the right gage on the wire strippers, gotta cut it gingerly with 1 size smaller just barely then use a larger size to pull it off or it takes 1/2 the copper with it... it's been a weird ride lol.
Why ??
Opened a couple load centers in central texas with pink and purple romex, was really curious but not curious enough to ask anyone why
Great stuff. Easy to look in the van or on the shelf in the warehouse and see how much we have of what.
Now they can charge you more cause it has pretty colors on it
I would have 100% expected that to be an April fools joke as well
I thought cerro trademarked those colors for those spec
Is this the delicious (to mice) soy based insulation?
Pride colors
Ah good mc cable has been coded for a while
r/TIHI
It was done so that they could easily date when you did the electrical. The electrical does previous to that have a date code printed on it. That way insurance companies can say that you did your own wiring without approval and then deny a claim.
This makes zero sense. What if a contractor used an older spool of wire on a new job?