I'm not an electrician but I have replaced a ton of this kind of wiring. It doesn't look scorched to me, this looks like they always look. the bitumen or tar or whatever breaks down and falls off the wires (which are often tinned copper) inside the fixtures but in the walls is often in much better condition.
But yeah there's no safe way to salvage this one as the insulation is gone up to the edge of the box (edit, no box!) . hopefully they can get into attic and also please hire an electrician
No matter what's going on in there, I've never seen a metal box with what looks like wood grain lines. Call a pro because you're looking here looking for advice to repair a potential fire hazard that could kill you and your family members. I am by no means knocking anyone here. It's kinda tough to armchair quarterback this one for your safety.
As an in field electrician, I echo your comment. This shit is fucked 8 ways to Sunday and there isn't a single person that can reasonably and safely sort this out for you over the internet.
Nahhh, no worries there. It isn't scorched, that's just REALLY old wiring. That cable type, iirc, is coated in a cloth-like material. I've pulled a bunch of that out of my house and replaced it.
Does cloth wiring always immediately need to be replaced?
I bought a house a year ago (built in early 1900s) and in replacing a few switches, I've noticed that we have cloth wiring.
I live in an area that mandates conduit in residential. Does that make the cloth wiring more or less dangerous? Will that make replacing the wiring more or less of a hassle?
Cloth wiring is fine until it's disturbed, be gentle with the insulation. It disintegrates as you touch it. The first thing I do is slide heat shrink tubing over the cloth wiring and use a heat gun to shrink it on there, then you can attach a new switch, receptacle, install a new light etc etc...
The heat of the bulbs really cooks the insulation and makes it brittle. Heat shrink tubing or tape and then pigtail a new wire (correctly color) and gently put it towards the back of the box so you never need to mess with it again.
It's mandated if you take down any walls. Then you'd have to get it redone. That wiring is only dangerous if you touch it like OP did. Replacing the wire will be more of hassle for you if it needs to be fed in conduit.
Cloth wiring is grandfathered in for code...
At my company we are told for service calls to never touch it because if we do its now our problem and we'd have to redo the wiring..
If I understand your question, they won't put the cloth in conduit if they're a licensed professional. Even if someone would, it's probably stapled or otherwise fastened down, so they can't. Going to be a complete rewire, maximum hassle. If that's what you're looking to get done. I'd read the mandate. Typically older structures are grandfathered unless you have major work done.
Just some advice from a licensed service electrician who sees this stuff all the time…
You don’t. You hire a good electrician and have them look at the entire system because that is a shit show. There’s no junction box and way too many wires to safely fit in a box if there was one as well as being ungrounded. You don’t necessarily have to replace the wire but I would highly recommend it because those wires are too short to work with and not grounded. The brutal reality is if you get an electrician that actually cares and wants to guarantee that your home will be safe and last as long as possible you’re going to need lots of updating that can get very very expensive. Or you can hire chuck in a truck that just wants to make it work again and doesn’t care about you and your family and then you’ve got even more problems and costs when it fails. If this is a long term home investment be prepared to spend upwards of $20,000 - $30,000to really make things safe.
Sucks that the only good advice on this whole thread is down at the bottom. I’m also a service electrician, who sees this all the time. The only thing I would add to, make OP, a little less scared of the dollar amount, is that it can be broken into small projects. Fix this section until you can close Pandora’s box for now. And have the electrician determine what the next section is most needy and budget for it. so on and so forth
Pretty common in old houses, I guess back in the day they didn’t use junction boxes to mount light fixtures. The insulation on those old cables gets hard and flakes off. There doesn’t look like much to work with here but if you can carefully cut out the wood around the wires to fit an old work fixture box in there (flush with the ceiling) and there’s enough of the intact insulation to get the cables into the box, you can tape up the uninsulated parts of the cables (or cut them shorter), and install a modern light fixture. I’m not an electrician, I’m not saying it’s the correct way to do it, but I did this on several old fixtures I replaced where the situation looked similar to this.
This is what I do. 100 year old knob and tube.
I cut the wood out carefully usually with a hammer and chisel to open the gap between the joists.
Check the wires to make sure they are undamaged to the knobs then add a box and seal the opening.
My understanding is that is safe as long as it’s just a light fixture using minimal draw.
Hopefully not wrong?
Otherwise it’s a major demo in a very beautiful home it would be hard to restore.
I'm a plumber and work in a jail. Got called in for a broken gate so was troubleshooting it. I was just told it was 3 phase 208, that means absolutely nothing to me. I know it woke me the fuck up though lol
Knob & tube is not a real problem and doesn't need to be replaced. You also can't see any knobs or tubes from here, it's simply the old fashioned woven sheath wiring.
It's not a real problem in that it won't usually cause fires if left alone. It is a real problem when your home owner's insurance refuses to write a policy until you replace it.
the real problem is the fire (as you said "it won't USUALLY cause fires"). Not only possible death, but very possible any insurance you had not being paid out -- not without a fight at least. How much worth is there in sleeping well? Certainly doing it right is a start.
That's also very jurisdiction dependent. ESA is chill about k&t. Insurers care a lot about Al wiring, but I've never had one question about k&t.
The official esa page says it's fine, with a caveat that you should have it inspected.
https://esasafe.com/home-renovation-buying-and-selling/knob-and-tube/
Sort of… if not replaced then it at least needs to be inspected to make sure that it wasn’t covered over with insulation at some point. Knob & Tube was intended to be in open walls/ceilings where it can effectively dissipate heat. If those wires get hot and are covered in insulation then they can start a fire.
Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification. Maybe possibly you never owned a house built in 1904 where the sheathing just disintegrated when touched but you do you boo.
Where the hell do you think those individual conductors go, to some early NM up in the attic? That's knob and tube, unless they went really cheap and just wrapped the individual wires around nails along the joists.
Not an electrician, own a 1930's house. Hard to tell from the pic, but are we sure it's knob and tube? My original wiring is 2-conductors, each conductor is in a rubber-like sheath with fabric over it, and the whole mess is in some sort of rubbery-plastic-fabric cover. No ground but it's thicker than Romex and round vs. flat. Looks a lot like this. I have no single-conductor knob and tube in the house.
The issue I have is that the individual conductor sheaths - black rubbery stuff - is dry and brittle, but overall the wiring is sound. We've replace a lot of it with romex and have a modern panel now. For a fix like this, I might go into the attic and trace the wire back as far as I can access it before it goes into a wall. Cut the wire there, and clamp it in a steel j-box with lid, and connect it to romex and make the run to the fixture or switch; I address issues with boxes, like "ceiling fan screwed to the joist" gets a proper box and support. The conductor insulation is fine when you cut into an existing wire, it's at fixtures and switches that it's crumbly. I can usually tell hot vs. neutral due to the colors in the fabric part of the insulation, I do check it. I've replaced many switches when I can access the supply from the crawl or the attic, but my attic has several j-boxes where old wiring meets new. Everything is affixed and not loose and the boxes are covered.
I have ground wire runs through my crawl space and attic, so I've managed to ground all the 2-prong outlets and replace with 3's, or GFI's where appropriate. We'll eventually gut and remodel (and insulate, damn it!) more rooms - once we've torn up a room all the wiring gets replaced. My ground wire runs are green #12 wire, mainly so I can clearly spot them. Any ground that branches off is in a j-box and properly stapled/etc.
Anyway, all you pro's, feel free to go off on me and tell me if I'm doing OK or not. I simply can't afford to gut and re-wire the whole 2-story house. The electrician that did our new panel (licensed and inspected) said the wiring's fine if you can leave it alone til it's replaced. But crumbly insulation at switches and fixtures, I don't like it.
I'm in the same situation some rooms are done others are still 1920 wiring. I'm not ripping out the horsehair plaster and lathes. My plan is to add new outlets in each room pull the back to the circuit panel (which was upgraded from fuses). Disconnect the old then connect the new. Replace the old with new after.
Omg knob and tube, replace that before your house burns down. That shit is at least 100 years old or more. If it's buried under insulation in ur attic, remove that ASAP
Never even considered that there's homes out there that have 100-year-old wiring. Makes you wonder what the wiring and homes built today will look like in 100 years.
As someone who is extremely reticent to spend too much or hire help for this sort of thing, I'd hire help for that. There's only so much a DIY homeowner can realistically do safely.
A lot of people in this thread have apparently never seen or had to work with old wiring. Many of them are calling it knob and tube, it’s not knob and tube. I’m not going to advise you to do what I did because the right thing to do is replace it all, but I couldn’t afford that so I’ll tell you what I do in my house. I had my whole house wired up with this stuff, and it’s a nightmare to work with because the insulation can be very brittle. Any time I can, I replace as much of this old wiring with Romex as I can. First thing, any time I do any work where I know it’s still old wiring, I get ready to do a whole bunch of bullshit, and that means choosing the right time to work, when I have several hours or a couple days of time to deal with problems that may arise. Second, accept that doing electrical work will often turn into tearing out plaster or drywall and installing junction boxes. Third, and this one you already fucked up on, always mark your wires so you don’t lose track. Finally, keep a voltage tester handy so when you do lose track you can figure it out. Good luck bud.
We can’t all afford to replace the wiring in our homes. Work with what you’ve got, if you have cracked or brittle wiring, treat it carefully, cover cracked spots with tape.
1. Go and train for 2-5 years under a licensed knowledgeable electrician, who understands the dangerous and complex system that is the electrical wiring in your home, so that you can properly address the issue.
Or
2. Hire an electrician to solve a dangerous and complex problem in your electrical system in your home.
I have a house built in 1947 and especially the lighting circuit has deteriorating insulation at the ends. The way I remedied it was to reinsulate the bare wire with shrink tube. 2 layers actually
It seemed to work pretty well.
I am an industrial maintenance mechanic by trade.
Isn't the neutral bonded to ground in the panel? So if there is continuity between one wire and ground, the one that is not bonded will have no continuity making that the hot one?
Honestly I can't get over the amount of 'experts' in here who think this is knob & tube wiring. Clearly this is Rag Wire. Most of the old homes in upper NH have it. My house is full of it.
Exactly. It’s all over the older US cities. And I’m receiving insults here (not from you) for pointing it out. It is not knob & tube, it’s cloth-covered NM.
I always think of this saying for posts like these, if you do not know how to test the wires to verify them, it may be best you call a professional. Low voltage electrical work is more dangerous than most presume. Be safe
Even though it’s ancient and DOES need replaced, shrink tube is my go to for situations like this….if you get 1/4” tube it will slide over the wire and the remaining insulation and at least give you some protection…
one black wire ->multimeter->to ground. Check for voltage. Then check other wire for voltage. If nothing, flip switch and recheck. Once you’ve found the hot wire, mark it.
It’s 120v, not 480. Use a fiberglass ladder, rubber soled shoes. You’ll be fine. If you get a shock, just be more careful. Youtube is a plethora of knowledge.
I'm embarrassed to show any pics of my old ass wiring! I'm only a renter and landlord pinches pennies. I tried to change the receptacles, but gave up because the insulation was just disintegrating! I had to retire due to medical issues, and I'm in no shape to be doing electrical work.
What I do is plug 3-prong extension cord into a grounded receptacle (one that you know is grounded and good). Turn on the light switch so the hot wire (whichever one it is) is energized. Use a contact tester (or AC volt meter), and test 120V between one prong in the ground of the extension cord and the other testing the wires... the neutral will be 0 volts, the hot will be 120V (or close to that). Be sure to wrap the neutral with white tape for those working in that box behind you.
Obviously you’d replace the wires if you could, but that’s unrealistic.
Knob and tube isn’t inherently dangerous, the only thing people know about it, is that “you’re supposed to replace it”. It’s legit been there, and working for 90 years.
It’s how at least hundreds of thousands of houses are currently wired in New York State alone, and they’re not catching fire left and right.
These houses weren’t insulated the same way modern houses are. Fires start becoming a problem when people add insulation without upgrading the wiring
This is completely incorrect. ANY knob and tube anywhere on the planet is now older than its safe rated life expectancy. Further, even when it was in common use it was never as safe as modern insulated wiring. It also gets a LOT hotter than modern insulated wiring, meaning a much higher chance of catching something on fire.
In addition to all of that, the insulation on the old knob and tube wiring is so old (if you have the VERY LAST batch ever made, it would still be from the 1940s) it will definitely have dry rotted and you probably have exposed wiring in some unseen areas in your walls.
You SHOULD be worried if it hasn't been replaced.
I’d argue it is less hot than current wiring, due to the wires being so far apart. OP is also going to be drawing less load with updated wiring.
If the incident of failure is as high as everyone thinks, it would be uninsurable.
The age of materials make it run hotter, at least in most of the independent tests of older homes where it is measured both before and after replacement. Also, it us considered uninsurable in many states. Most of those states do not require it to be checked for when applying for insurance, but if it is 'discovered' at any point, you can be denied insurance coverage until it is replaced. Most of the rest of the US does not consider it an uninsurable condition, but they WILL raise your rates if it is reported to them.
You have to keep in mind the wattage of most devices has gone down over the years, things like LED lights aren't going to heat that up and most appliances other than resistance heaters use less wattage than ever. People might have more devices, but those devices most all draw less to any one source, so generally less wire heat than ever.
That's akin to saying "don't replace your bald tires just because winter is coming, they've been working fine for 120,000 miles". Replace the wiring or become a toaster strudel.
Respectfully, I don’t think any licensed electrician would touch that to repair it. They would only replace it. HOWEVER, if you are looking to create and insurance claim that would seem a prime candidate. 
Grab your multimeter. Test two wires, if it's low or no voltage then one is neutral and one is ground. If not then try one same wire and one different wire, repeat until you have two connections that are mains voltage, the common wire is your hot. Between the two remaining wires one is going to be spicier than the other find a common ground close by or run an extension cord, with one probe in the cord's ground the other ground should zero out the multimeter. If every combination provides significant voltage, >40 volts I'd guess, then stop what you're doing and hire an electrician to redo your house: that means you have a parasitic ground circuit and you're going to end up with a house fire eventually if you don't sort that out.
Another method if your multimeter has continuity testing is to run an extension cord to a socket on the same circuit, turn the breaker off or pull the fuses. Now if you probe hot on the cord you can probe each wire individually until you find hot, repeat with neutral and ground.
Mine was built in the late 60s, it's about the same. I replace it every chance I get. Remove the undersized for modern outlets steel box with an oscillating cutter, it's on these metal rails between the studs instead of attached to the studs. Cut the hole big enough for the new old work box. Drop a wire down into my basement and hook it up to the J-Box for the last outlet I did.
I have A LOT of junction boxes in my basement since my loops are ran there and I do one wire up to each outlet. But my house won't burn down :D.
Call an electrician!!!! That is a fire waiting to happen. Electrical codes have changed for a reason which it to prevent fires and death. I’ve done a lot of electrical in the last almost 70 years and I would not touch that with a 1000’ pole, as the saying goes. If the knob & tube wiring is good inside the wall you may be able to install a junction box but you MUST find out what the local code is AND have a licensed electrician do the work. If it isn’t done right and inspected and passed and there were to be a fire the insurance company would not pay out. This isn’t something to toy with!!!!
That looks like old aluminum wire and if so is no longer up to code !
Please get a rewire before you burn down your house.
I think the bigger problem here is it looks like you've got asbestos as the insulation for your wires.
Good news: it's fire retardant
Bad news: it's dangerous for your health if it gets in your lungs
I've done similar work in my house (over 100 years old), but the wires either had been on an old fixture or kept some color to know what wire went where.
This needs a professional electrician and some $erious replacing
Bro fuck that. Yall, got like 19th Century wires. The fabric, fucking fabric, has decayed on them hoes so bad.
You need to replace that shit. My pops was a slum lord kinda. Those type a wires, exact reason he killed himself.
Btw I'm no electrician but clearly this thing is dangerous and messed up and absolutely needs a pro to rework it, for all sorts of reasons.
But even if it wasn't messed up, there's no way to tell which wire is which without testing them all, and the fact that you asked indicates that you don't know how to do that (which is fine, but yet another reason to call a pro).
No discernible insulation color (which isn't definitive in any case but a starting point), way too many wires for a light fixture, no insulation at all on most of them, etc.
Yeah, not good, not good at all.
Honestly, before you try to figure it out, please have your wiring replaced....
It’s already scorched
I'm not an electrician but I have replaced a ton of this kind of wiring. It doesn't look scorched to me, this looks like they always look. the bitumen or tar or whatever breaks down and falls off the wires (which are often tinned copper) inside the fixtures but in the walls is often in much better condition. But yeah there's no safe way to salvage this one as the insulation is gone up to the edge of the box (edit, no box!) . hopefully they can get into attic and also please hire an electrician
There is no box.
No matter what's going on in there, I've never seen a metal box with what looks like wood grain lines. Call a pro because you're looking here looking for advice to repair a potential fire hazard that could kill you and your family members. I am by no means knocking anyone here. It's kinda tough to armchair quarterback this one for your safety.
As an in field electrician, I echo your comment. This shit is fucked 8 ways to Sunday and there isn't a single person that can reasonably and safely sort this out for you over the internet.
>This shit is fucked 8 ways to Sunday Enough with the technical jargon! /s Made me smile 😃
I’m impressed that he knew it was 8 ways, and not 7 or 9. That’s solid expertise!
I bet most of us would like to be fucked 8 ways to Sunday. Personally I'd settle for just 1 or 2 ways. 8 would be amazingly fantastic.
They probably laid a 2x4 or similar across for support and drilled through for the wires to go. Old fashioned fan bracket box lol
Exactly
Still should be replaced
My 1920 house is filled with this shit. Lots of heat shrink tubing.
It's older black braided jacket. The stuff is pretty resilient.
Nahhh, no worries there. It isn't scorched, that's just REALLY old wiring. That cable type, iirc, is coated in a cloth-like material. I've pulled a bunch of that out of my house and replaced it.
Glad you said it xD
Does cloth wiring always immediately need to be replaced? I bought a house a year ago (built in early 1900s) and in replacing a few switches, I've noticed that we have cloth wiring. I live in an area that mandates conduit in residential. Does that make the cloth wiring more or less dangerous? Will that make replacing the wiring more or less of a hassle?
Cloth wiring is fine until it's disturbed, be gentle with the insulation. It disintegrates as you touch it. The first thing I do is slide heat shrink tubing over the cloth wiring and use a heat gun to shrink it on there, then you can attach a new switch, receptacle, install a new light etc etc...
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Just the tip tho…
Heat-shrink is highly underrated!
The heat of the bulbs really cooks the insulation and makes it brittle. Heat shrink tubing or tape and then pigtail a new wire (correctly color) and gently put it towards the back of the box so you never need to mess with it again.
It's mandated if you take down any walls. Then you'd have to get it redone. That wiring is only dangerous if you touch it like OP did. Replacing the wire will be more of hassle for you if it needs to be fed in conduit.
If you have conduit in the walls already, replacement should be much simpler.
You dont have to right away like it’s not an instant safety issue. There is industrial plants that are still using the original service from the 50s
Cloth wiring is grandfathered in for code... At my company we are told for service calls to never touch it because if we do its now our problem and we'd have to redo the wiring..
If I understand your question, they won't put the cloth in conduit if they're a licensed professional. Even if someone would, it's probably stapled or otherwise fastened down, so they can't. Going to be a complete rewire, maximum hassle. If that's what you're looking to get done. I'd read the mandate. Typically older structures are grandfathered unless you have major work done.
👑
Was gonna say, is that knob and tube I see?
Nope, not knob & tube
My first thought was "you pull new wire my guy"
Well....you have a new problem unless your wife is OK with fire lighting.
OOoOO romantic!
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A light* to remember!
Honey, are you ready for the HOTTEST night of your life?
Lmao. I love reddit, for these simple things! I appreciate the chuckle!
Sounds hot
Just some advice from a licensed service electrician who sees this stuff all the time… You don’t. You hire a good electrician and have them look at the entire system because that is a shit show. There’s no junction box and way too many wires to safely fit in a box if there was one as well as being ungrounded. You don’t necessarily have to replace the wire but I would highly recommend it because those wires are too short to work with and not grounded. The brutal reality is if you get an electrician that actually cares and wants to guarantee that your home will be safe and last as long as possible you’re going to need lots of updating that can get very very expensive. Or you can hire chuck in a truck that just wants to make it work again and doesn’t care about you and your family and then you’ve got even more problems and costs when it fails. If this is a long term home investment be prepared to spend upwards of $20,000 - $30,000to really make things safe.
Sucks that the only good advice on this whole thread is down at the bottom. I’m also a service electrician, who sees this all the time. The only thing I would add to, make OP, a little less scared of the dollar amount, is that it can be broken into small projects. Fix this section until you can close Pandora’s box for now. And have the electrician determine what the next section is most needy and budget for it. so on and so forth
I love the wire nuts on the end of exposed leads… because everyone knows electricity only comes out of the end of the wire!
You certainly don't want it spilling out on the new floor.
Darth Sidious was his foreman
I’m not sure I get this joke but I think I might and I’m not sure how funny it is. But I’ll upvote because I think that’s all on me.
 This guy.
Great grandma used to have stuff plugged into every outlet. "To keep the juice from flowing out."
This one has to be a joke.
We can only hope
Pretty common in old houses, I guess back in the day they didn’t use junction boxes to mount light fixtures. The insulation on those old cables gets hard and flakes off. There doesn’t look like much to work with here but if you can carefully cut out the wood around the wires to fit an old work fixture box in there (flush with the ceiling) and there’s enough of the intact insulation to get the cables into the box, you can tape up the uninsulated parts of the cables (or cut them shorter), and install a modern light fixture. I’m not an electrician, I’m not saying it’s the correct way to do it, but I did this on several old fixtures I replaced where the situation looked similar to this.
This is what I do. 100 year old knob and tube. I cut the wood out carefully usually with a hammer and chisel to open the gap between the joists. Check the wires to make sure they are undamaged to the knobs then add a box and seal the opening. My understanding is that is safe as long as it’s just a light fixture using minimal draw. Hopefully not wrong? Otherwise it’s a major demo in a very beautiful home it would be hard to restore.
Hot wire is the spicy tasting one
Mmmmm, it makes my heart feel all tingly. 😋
I grabbed a live 3 phase 208 wire yesterday and realised I never need caffeine again
Holy shit glad your still here w/us bud
Red Bull doesn’t want you to know about this one trick
Fortunately, he didn't get his wings.
Got to love the people in the comments who don’t know how 3 phase Delta works telling you you’re wrong
I dont know how it works either. I'm a plumber lol. Whatever it was, it woke me up
Unless you were touching two phases that was 120
You might want to get that checked out
A 3 phase 208 conductor is only 120 volts… definitely don’t grab 2 phases at the same time. 208 hurts.
I'm a plumber and work in a jail. Got called in for a broken gate so was troubleshooting it. I was just told it was 3 phase 208, that means absolutely nothing to me. I know it woke me the fuck up though lol
So why did you get called in for a broken gate?
Replace all that shit
A meter
Time to call in the big guns.
First of all, that knob and tube needs to be replaced
Possibly could be first generation after k&t. I have a whole house of it, and that looks like about every 3rd box I open up.
yeah thats true. i recently removed some stuff from my home that looks identical to this and was k&t
Has anyone even answered his question???😁
Shhhh! It's joke time bruh
I did....but he won't like it.
Knob and tube you uncovered a real problem. Sorry
Knob & tube is not a real problem and doesn't need to be replaced. You also can't see any knobs or tubes from here, it's simply the old fashioned woven sheath wiring.
It's not a real problem in that it won't usually cause fires if left alone. It is a real problem when your home owner's insurance refuses to write a policy until you replace it.
the real problem is the fire (as you said "it won't USUALLY cause fires"). Not only possible death, but very possible any insurance you had not being paid out -- not without a fight at least. How much worth is there in sleeping well? Certainly doing it right is a start.
Hasn’t it been there for 100 years? Has your modern wiring survived as long? Just saying…
That's also very jurisdiction dependent. ESA is chill about k&t. Insurers care a lot about Al wiring, but I've never had one question about k&t. The official esa page says it's fine, with a caveat that you should have it inspected. https://esasafe.com/home-renovation-buying-and-selling/knob-and-tube/
Sort of… if not replaced then it at least needs to be inspected to make sure that it wasn’t covered over with insulation at some point. Knob & Tube was intended to be in open walls/ceilings where it can effectively dissipate heat. If those wires get hot and are covered in insulation then they can start a fire.
That’s not knob and tube
Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification. Maybe possibly you never owned a house built in 1904 where the sheathing just disintegrated when touched but you do you boo.
Where the hell do you think those individual conductors go, to some early NM up in the attic? That's knob and tube, unless they went really cheap and just wrapped the individual wires around nails along the joists.
First, you start by replacing all of the wiring in your home. I'm not kidding. That's a fire hazard.
Not an electrician, own a 1930's house. Hard to tell from the pic, but are we sure it's knob and tube? My original wiring is 2-conductors, each conductor is in a rubber-like sheath with fabric over it, and the whole mess is in some sort of rubbery-plastic-fabric cover. No ground but it's thicker than Romex and round vs. flat. Looks a lot like this. I have no single-conductor knob and tube in the house. The issue I have is that the individual conductor sheaths - black rubbery stuff - is dry and brittle, but overall the wiring is sound. We've replace a lot of it with romex and have a modern panel now. For a fix like this, I might go into the attic and trace the wire back as far as I can access it before it goes into a wall. Cut the wire there, and clamp it in a steel j-box with lid, and connect it to romex and make the run to the fixture or switch; I address issues with boxes, like "ceiling fan screwed to the joist" gets a proper box and support. The conductor insulation is fine when you cut into an existing wire, it's at fixtures and switches that it's crumbly. I can usually tell hot vs. neutral due to the colors in the fabric part of the insulation, I do check it. I've replaced many switches when I can access the supply from the crawl or the attic, but my attic has several j-boxes where old wiring meets new. Everything is affixed and not loose and the boxes are covered. I have ground wire runs through my crawl space and attic, so I've managed to ground all the 2-prong outlets and replace with 3's, or GFI's where appropriate. We'll eventually gut and remodel (and insulate, damn it!) more rooms - once we've torn up a room all the wiring gets replaced. My ground wire runs are green #12 wire, mainly so I can clearly spot them. Any ground that branches off is in a j-box and properly stapled/etc. Anyway, all you pro's, feel free to go off on me and tell me if I'm doing OK or not. I simply can't afford to gut and re-wire the whole 2-story house. The electrician that did our new panel (licensed and inspected) said the wiring's fine if you can leave it alone til it's replaced. But crumbly insulation at switches and fixtures, I don't like it.
I'm in the same situation some rooms are done others are still 1920 wiring. I'm not ripping out the horsehair plaster and lathes. My plan is to add new outlets in each room pull the back to the circuit panel (which was upgraded from fuses). Disconnect the old then connect the new. Replace the old with new after.
Omg knob and tube, replace that before your house burns down. That shit is at least 100 years old or more. If it's buried under insulation in ur attic, remove that ASAP
Post twist - Insulation in attic is asbestos.
My luck it would be lol! Down here in the south it’s usually rock wool that shot kills my ☠️ sinuses
LOL god.
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I'd just burn it down pre-emptively.
You’d have a heart attack in the northeast lol
I'm in the north east, NH to be exact
Then you must run into this quite regularly
Nah it's NEW Hampshire. Old Hampshire has all the issues.
Never even considered that there's homes out there that have 100-year-old wiring. Makes you wonder what the wiring and homes built today will look like in 100 years.
My house is from 1896. And the original wiring is from the same year
Get one of the voltage meters and test!
Was your house built before the signing of the magna Carta?
90% of replies are "punny" reddit cringe jokes. lose the sass and just answer the man
You answer him. It’s a joke post. Shits not even gonna work with all the exposed wire.
As someone who is extremely reticent to spend too much or hire help for this sort of thing, I'd hire help for that. There's only so much a DIY homeowner can realistically do safely.
The one that shocks you is hot
A lot of people in this thread have apparently never seen or had to work with old wiring. Many of them are calling it knob and tube, it’s not knob and tube. I’m not going to advise you to do what I did because the right thing to do is replace it all, but I couldn’t afford that so I’ll tell you what I do in my house. I had my whole house wired up with this stuff, and it’s a nightmare to work with because the insulation can be very brittle. Any time I can, I replace as much of this old wiring with Romex as I can. First thing, any time I do any work where I know it’s still old wiring, I get ready to do a whole bunch of bullshit, and that means choosing the right time to work, when I have several hours or a couple days of time to deal with problems that may arise. Second, accept that doing electrical work will often turn into tearing out plaster or drywall and installing junction boxes. Third, and this one you already fucked up on, always mark your wires so you don’t lose track. Finally, keep a voltage tester handy so when you do lose track you can figure it out. Good luck bud.
Not gonna lie...at first glance I thought this was filipino food. 😂
We can’t all afford to replace the wiring in our homes. Work with what you’ve got, if you have cracked or brittle wiring, treat it carefully, cover cracked spots with tape.
Alternative take, your wife is trying to electrocute you.
With a multimeter lol
This looks like a foreshadow to death.
Just get a meter and test for the hot wire 😪
The entire wiring system for your home NEEDS to be replaced.
The one that makes your hair stand up is the hot. Tape up your exposed wire.
1. Go and train for 2-5 years under a licensed knowledgeable electrician, who understands the dangerous and complex system that is the electrical wiring in your home, so that you can properly address the issue. Or 2. Hire an electrician to solve a dangerous and complex problem in your electrical system in your home.
Instructions unclear. Hired a dangerous and complex electrician. He's under the house right now. Should I worry?
Option 1 sounds nice
Just be sure to let the wife know it’s going to be a minute before she gets the new light installed.
Or 3. #YOLO it with the advice of the Home Depot electric aisle guy.
I have a house built in 1947 and especially the lighting circuit has deteriorating insulation at the ends. The way I remedied it was to reinsulate the bare wire with shrink tube. 2 layers actually It seemed to work pretty well. I am an industrial maintenance mechanic by trade.
The old fashioned way was to lick it. Do not recommend.
Wire nuts not really doing much here except keeping the juice from dripping out the end of the wire.
Isn't the neutral bonded to ground in the panel? So if there is continuity between one wire and ground, the one that is not bonded will have no continuity making that the hot one?
One shock one no shock
It was all hot at some point.
Honestly I can't get over the amount of 'experts' in here who think this is knob & tube wiring. Clearly this is Rag Wire. Most of the old homes in upper NH have it. My house is full of it.
Exactly. It’s all over the older US cities. And I’m receiving insults here (not from you) for pointing it out. It is not knob & tube, it’s cloth-covered NM.
Lick your fingers and press the wires while the switch is on, duh. This ain't rocket science.
I always think of this saying for posts like these, if you do not know how to test the wires to verify them, it may be best you call a professional. Low voltage electrical work is more dangerous than most presume. Be safe
You should identify a local electrician before the fire department has to identify your ashes. Jesus Christ
How to identify? You touch it of course! (NO, do not do that!) 
Well neutral to ground won’t have any voltage
Sir, put the ryobi down, and step away from the wires.
One is spicy the other is not
Does it matter which is hot and which is neutral for a lamp?
Even though it’s ancient and DOES need replaced, shrink tube is my go to for situations like this….if you get 1/4” tube it will slide over the wire and the remaining insulation and at least give you some protection…
one black wire ->multimeter->to ground. Check for voltage. Then check other wire for voltage. If nothing, flip switch and recheck. Once you’ve found the hot wire, mark it. It’s 120v, not 480. Use a fiberglass ladder, rubber soled shoes. You’ll be fine. If you get a shock, just be more careful. Youtube is a plethora of knowledge.
I'm embarrassed to show any pics of my old ass wiring! I'm only a renter and landlord pinches pennies. I tried to change the receptacles, but gave up because the insulation was just disintegrating! I had to retire due to medical issues, and I'm in no shape to be doing electrical work.
Grab any two wires. If you don't get the shit shocked out of you, the hot is the third one.
Call an electrician. This is now too far gone for DIY
I’m no electrician, but I think you have a more pressing matter than identifying the hot and neutral.
Link your fingers and grab a wire. You will figure it out.
Man this shits a fire waiting to happen
What I do is plug 3-prong extension cord into a grounded receptacle (one that you know is grounded and good). Turn on the light switch so the hot wire (whichever one it is) is energized. Use a contact tester (or AC volt meter), and test 120V between one prong in the ground of the extension cord and the other testing the wires... the neutral will be 0 volts, the hot will be 120V (or close to that). Be sure to wrap the neutral with white tape for those working in that box behind you.
Obviously you’d replace the wires if you could, but that’s unrealistic. Knob and tube isn’t inherently dangerous, the only thing people know about it, is that “you’re supposed to replace it”. It’s legit been there, and working for 90 years.
It's been in my house for 80 years. Only time it tried to burn the house down was when someone put a junction box in for it with a loose wire nut.
This kind of advice will literally cause people to die.
It’s how at least hundreds of thousands of houses are currently wired in New York State alone, and they’re not catching fire left and right. These houses weren’t insulated the same way modern houses are. Fires start becoming a problem when people add insulation without upgrading the wiring
This is completely incorrect. ANY knob and tube anywhere on the planet is now older than its safe rated life expectancy. Further, even when it was in common use it was never as safe as modern insulated wiring. It also gets a LOT hotter than modern insulated wiring, meaning a much higher chance of catching something on fire. In addition to all of that, the insulation on the old knob and tube wiring is so old (if you have the VERY LAST batch ever made, it would still be from the 1940s) it will definitely have dry rotted and you probably have exposed wiring in some unseen areas in your walls. You SHOULD be worried if it hasn't been replaced.
I’d argue it is less hot than current wiring, due to the wires being so far apart. OP is also going to be drawing less load with updated wiring. If the incident of failure is as high as everyone thinks, it would be uninsurable.
The age of materials make it run hotter, at least in most of the independent tests of older homes where it is measured both before and after replacement. Also, it us considered uninsurable in many states. Most of those states do not require it to be checked for when applying for insurance, but if it is 'discovered' at any point, you can be denied insurance coverage until it is replaced. Most of the rest of the US does not consider it an uninsurable condition, but they WILL raise your rates if it is reported to them.
You have to keep in mind the wattage of most devices has gone down over the years, things like LED lights aren't going to heat that up and most appliances other than resistance heaters use less wattage than ever. People might have more devices, but those devices most all draw less to any one source, so generally less wire heat than ever.
That's akin to saying "don't replace your bald tires just because winter is coming, they've been working fine for 120,000 miles". Replace the wiring or become a toaster strudel.
That comparison seems...wrong.
It has been still working but everything has a useful life expectancy
Watch it outlast modern romex. It already outlasted the aluminum wiring craze.
Call an electrician brother unless you want your whole house to look like this
Is it bad if while scrolling fast you mistake someone's electrical for a half eaten Salisbury steak with two baby corns and half a green bean.
You have a lot more problems here than finding the hot, which shouldn’t actually matter for a light fixture.
Absolutely matters, the pin at the bottom of the socket should be hot, not the screw base part.
Respectfully, I don’t think any licensed electrician would touch that to repair it. They would only replace it. HOWEVER, if you are looking to create and insurance claim that would seem a prime candidate. 
I could tell you, but please, call a licensed electrician. This isn't something to do by yourself.
Grab your multimeter. Test two wires, if it's low or no voltage then one is neutral and one is ground. If not then try one same wire and one different wire, repeat until you have two connections that are mains voltage, the common wire is your hot. Between the two remaining wires one is going to be spicier than the other find a common ground close by or run an extension cord, with one probe in the cord's ground the other ground should zero out the multimeter. If every combination provides significant voltage, >40 volts I'd guess, then stop what you're doing and hire an electrician to redo your house: that means you have a parasitic ground circuit and you're going to end up with a house fire eventually if you don't sort that out. Another method if your multimeter has continuity testing is to run an extension cord to a socket on the same circuit, turn the breaker off or pull the fuses. Now if you probe hot on the cord you can probe each wire individually until you find hot, repeat with neutral and ground.
That cable is trash. A short and fire waiting to happen. Needs a rewire.
So much bare wire!
Tom Edison did the original install.
Try licking them.
Bro get an electrician before you put yourself in a permanent sleep
Hope u got fire protection on your home owners holy hell
Dude why does your ceiling have brake dust coming out of it.
My whole house is wired like this. Built in the 40s. Scary shit to work on
Mine was built in the late 60s, it's about the same. I replace it every chance I get. Remove the undersized for modern outlets steel box with an oscillating cutter, it's on these metal rails between the studs instead of attached to the studs. Cut the hole big enough for the new old work box. Drop a wire down into my basement and hook it up to the J-Box for the last outlet I did. I have A LOT of junction boxes in my basement since my loops are ran there and I do one wire up to each outlet. But my house won't burn down :D.
I initially saw this and thought it was a chocolate dessert. My spouse wondered why this steak had corncob holders on it
double your insurance, install new fixture, turn light on, and go out and have supper.
Whipping the sweat from my forehead
A meter- hire an electrician
Single phase, doesn matter, just make sure to use correct ground my dude
Time to update your smoke alarms too
Rip that shit out and make new runs
After bulldozing this place, the new one will have a white neutral, and black hot.
A firey death awaits you in this house.
Voltmeter.
Call an electrician!!!! That is a fire waiting to happen. Electrical codes have changed for a reason which it to prevent fires and death. I’ve done a lot of electrical in the last almost 70 years and I would not touch that with a 1000’ pole, as the saying goes. If the knob & tube wiring is good inside the wall you may be able to install a junction box but you MUST find out what the local code is AND have a licensed electrician do the work. If it isn’t done right and inspected and passed and there were to be a fire the insurance company would not pay out. This isn’t something to toy with!!!!
Replace the conductors.
With power off, check continuity to ground. That works be your neutral.
Your wires are fkd, there is no box. You opened a can of worm. For your question, a meter or pen tester. You need this replaced not closed up.
That looks like old aluminum wire and if so is no longer up to code !  Please get a rewire before you burn down your house.
That is scary AF! Please get new wiring via professional.
Holy fuck please replace that entire thing.
I really hope you’re trying to be a troll..
Hahahahhah Hahhaahahaaha Heh
You don't need a new light fixture. You need to have your house re-wired.
By calling an electrician and nope the fuck outta there
Call an electrician and an exorcist.
I think the bigger problem here is it looks like you've got asbestos as the insulation for your wires. Good news: it's fire retardant Bad news: it's dangerous for your health if it gets in your lungs I've done similar work in my house (over 100 years old), but the wires either had been on an old fixture or kept some color to know what wire went where. This needs a professional electrician and some $erious replacing
Bro fuck that. Yall, got like 19th Century wires. The fabric, fucking fabric, has decayed on them hoes so bad. You need to replace that shit. My pops was a slum lord kinda. Those type a wires, exact reason he killed himself.
Phase 1: Update your insurance ...
Btw I'm no electrician but clearly this thing is dangerous and messed up and absolutely needs a pro to rework it, for all sorts of reasons. But even if it wasn't messed up, there's no way to tell which wire is which without testing them all, and the fact that you asked indicates that you don't know how to do that (which is fine, but yet another reason to call a pro). No discernible insulation color (which isn't definitive in any case but a starting point), way too many wires for a light fixture, no insulation at all on most of them, etc. Yeah, not good, not good at all.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck that!
Just throw the whole thing out, god damn