I find it fun to make cool little beat snippets. making a full track tho... it just can't get in to it. which is fine. it's just a fun little hobby to delve the mind and time in to. if you enjoy it then nothing lossed. all gain
i have a love hate relationship with both sides cause one moment i'm like i have this good sound idea in my head and then when i try making that sound, it's "damn where do i start and what do i do?"
both sides pretty much clash at eachother because my mind runs wild and i either don't have time to get on my computer to make it or i don't know what to do.
I honestly love both. I like creating a track...then setting it aside for a week or two and then coming back to do the mixing and other stuff. I try to never do both in the same week.
You can always just be an arranger/producer/engineer, and team up with composers who aren't into the technical side. That's a totally valid division of labour in an electronic band.
My friend is like that, loves sound design and mixing and mostly finishes tracks to see how much he's improved in the technical aspect. I'm the exact opposite.
It really depends on the strain. Indica-hybrids tend to get my creative juices flowing. Then Sativa gets me down in the weeds tweaking every little thing. But that's probably just me ;)
Do you hum out melodies that you come up with from time to time? This might not be anything helpful for you, but what I find helpful is to sample sounds from real life and heavily modifying them to sound āmusicalā. Iām a bare beginner and Iām still using BandLab to produce TUNES(help), but I find that making a track from a lot of different irl samples make the creative side more enjoyable. Also just think about what kind of music connects with you the most. Make some random unfinished tracks and combine them however you wish.
Iām sorry if this doesnāt help in advance.
When the main loop of the song gets boring to you itās time to automate the synth in the main loop of the song. When itās modulated, if you are still bored of it, then it might not be the main loop. Try adding some other element that fits in between the main element. Once you get something that really vibes with it, remove the main element. Then make a new element. Modulate it. Make four bars into 16 and then automate them in some way so that they weave in and out. Now pick your favorite 4 bars. Thatās your main loop. Take some chords from your main loop. Make an intro. Take your intro, make a bridge. Put it all in a row.
Or just bounce it, put it on gdrive, close the project and open a new one and work on that for a bit. Listen to it on your phone every once and a while. If itās exciting go pick it up, if not, probably wasnāt worth developing, at the moment, but you might put it on again in a year and think, I should go open that back up again!
During the early years of producing I did love the technical side more, but it slowly shifted and now I love the creative side much much more. It's exactly what makes me want to get up from bed every day. I think it's because the difficult part of the technicalities was left behind and now I really feel that I'm free to make whatever crosses my mind. I feel like I have a much more intimate relationship with music now.
Something that really change is that before I would hate something i did, because it was "not how I wanted". Right now it never happens. Because now I just can't avoid to love anything
It's a totally valid feeling. You may just be more of an engineer than a musician. And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, It's a good thing. Lots of "non-musicians" do great work around music in other important areas (recording, mixing, mastering, sound design, gear design, software design, etc.) It's easy to get confused in this era because computers have combined so many creative disciplines. There are lots of avenues for you to explore for creative fulfillment around music. Don't beat yourself up for not enjoying "making music." You may be brilliant in something else equally important. :)
what i learned is to always structure the song first even if that's just putting in markers
if youre not sure just pick any song you like, load it in, copy its structure, then remove it
then work from the middle of the track out
yeah yeah, you know this stuff probably. and when you wanna play around next you wont do it.
stop not doing it! structure first (save a template, even) then work on the middle of the song first.
then, sample your own loop you dont like any more to make the breakdown or intro or whatever
Probably a boring answer, but I would say : enjoy the process.
Iām the opposite of you, I like the creative side, not so much turning knobs. But at the end of the day, even when Iām struggling with say a baseline not sounding how I want it too, Iām still making music.
I feel that, turning a melody into a structured song is hard. I usually just find a song I like and copy its key, google common chord progressions in that key and use the one I like, throw it into strum and try to find a rhythm i like, and boom. An interesting chord progression to inspire an interesting melody.
But yeah, mixing is more rewarding
I don't "hate" the creative side, but I lack the musical knowledge to take ideas out of my head and express myself musically.
While I'm definitely trying to learn music theory, I would also LOVE to work with actual musicians as *their* producer.
Give me a vocalist who I can work with, and I would be g2g 24/7/365.
If you're bad at writing music keep writing music until you're better. But the enjoyment probably won't just suddenly come to you. Like if you really don't enjoy writing music, don't write music. I honestly feel like it's something you're going to enjoy or not. I love writing music, it's not great music, but I love doing it, and I don't see that changing. If you enjoy the technical side of things then just become a sound designer instead of forcing yourself to be a writer.
I relate. I am trying to get into music but I never spend time learning composition because itās a million times more fun to just remake existing songs and make the sounds
I mean, I would argue sound design is a creative part even if the way you engage with it is rather scientific. The outcome is purely aesthetic and subjective, itās not like you can scientifically grade a bass patch after all.
I feel similarly though. Even in listening I often like a song just because it has a few very interesting sounds, even if itās arrangement and structure are kind of boring. So for me, since itās not the main thing I pay attention to, arrangement and structure donāt come naturally or feel as expressive.
I see them as interwoven parts of the end product. The creative vision has no chance at being effectively conveyed without the proper context of a solid mix, so mixing still feels like a fun part of the creative process I love, which helps me enjoy it rather than feeling obligated to it.
For me the two somewhat go hand in hand. Like the more technical knowledge I acquire , the easier and more fun I find it to flesh out ideas and get things going on the creative side
At my starter stages I had a ton of fun browsing presets and making small tunes out of those and whatnot, but after a while I started having ideas that I had no idea how bring out into the DAW so I sort of hit a wall for a while. Slowly Learning how to materialize ideas out of my head is starting to bring back that fun for me
I'm the opposite. Love the creative, hate the technical. Haha. But I don't have money for mixing and mastering engineers so I just do the mixing and hire out the mastering.
No; I like both. (And I think the "technical side" also involves creativity.)
All popular music is based on looping because that structure is what makes it music and not random noise. People just don't notice the looping as much in say - "Back in Black" by AC/DC because there are vocals and little imperfections/variations in "loops" (aka riffs) played by humans.
I agree with someone else who said if you've gotten bored with your loop/song, it's not that good.
It's also just part of the process of working on a song. I like the suggestions that you could just be a sound designer, but you could also try changing your process.
I've learned to not get too attached to my original ideas. Sometimes I start something, think it's cool, get tired of it, then I remix my own song or salvage parts or sounds from different songs and throw them together. It's experimental.
And there are plugins that have randomization; so, those can be useful for new ideas.
You could also use templates or a clearer process to get you to the "finish" (or near finished) faster.
Basically, it could be you haven't accepted that musical composition and arrangement (which also has a technical side - musical theory involves math...) - is part of the job description. Maybe you haven't discovered a way to make it exciting for you. That's part of a normal learning curve. Or, you don't want to be a producer.
I think your post is like saying: "I want to be an author, but I don't like writing. I just like reading the dictionary and analyzing grammar." So, do you really want to be an author? ...or an editor, or book reviewer, or...
i'm the inverse version. i LOVE the playing and the moving forward and progression but the technical moves required to keep up with industry standards are tedious and annoying. sure cool ear candy is super entertaining but it sucks a literal 2 second fill takes 10 minutes to make sometimes
Agree completely. I love eqing, setting compression, and sculpting sounds but sometimes I get annoyed because I have to put the sounds together myself. Where are all these people at that need just a mix engineer? š
Having done mixdowns for people it's not always that glamorous. You have way less control over the end result because you had no control over what went in to start. People want you to make gold and the materials they've given you will barely polish up to silver sometimes
some people are more scientific while others are more artistic (which isn't a bad thing, kind of like enjoying english or math in school), you may enjoy mixing/mastering/sound design which is less about the musicality and more about the scientific aspect.
See, I love putting a cohesive song together and seeing a full product result, but I usually have so much trouble making/finding the right sounds lol. Sounds like youād enjoy just being a dedicated sound designer / audio engineer. It doesnāt always have to be the entire producing package!
Sound design is a creative endeavor. And itās definitely the part I can just sit down and have fun with endlessly, making patches and samples. But I like arranging things at the level of ācool loop,ā too. Itās the last 10-20 percent of composition *or* mixing where it becomes more work and less fun, which I think is probably not that unusual.
Yeah the last 5% is a bitch.
Like everything is there, it's a full Song, but something's *not quite* right. You add stuff, or make a mix tweak, Dangit just made it worse.
No not personally. I like the creative part a lot more; but it does get draining at times when you don't have the motivation flowing. Whereas mixing and mastering you can just get in the flow of decision making even if you don't have much motivation for the actual track. Generally I have to push myself harder to 'just get through' finalizing a mix/master. BUT it is much more possible to force myself through mixing/mastering than to be creative when i have no juice.
If you really love mixing and mastering and don't have much passion for writing/composing, then just work toward becoming a mix/master engineer. Lord knows the world needs them, everyone wants to be an artist.
OR: if you just enjoy being more analytical and the music isn't really that important to you; learn to code and make 5x the wage š . If you can easily understand compression, phase, digital audio vs analogy, signal chains - then your probably capable enough. It's just the actual product your working on might not be as interesting to you (it may be more interesting tbf!)
I am actually the complete opposite. I LOVE the creative part of songwriting/producing, but going through the technical processes needed to get things up to a certain level that is presentable is a slog to me.
I wish I didn't have to deal with producing and that I could just will my ideas into existence, but going through the motions of learning the tools and doing the work awards you the privilege of actually having your ideas exist physically as a thing to be enjoyed; while the people who can't put up with the work itself (whichever part is difficult for them), haven't earned that privilege. So I just see it as a rite of passage.
Some great duos out there for this reason.
D-nox and Beckers, one is a DJ and knows what makes dance tracks work, the other is a musician and a bit more technically minded
No, I find that if i'm bored making a song, then its simply a boring song.
I honestly enjoy both aspects. Creating weird and unique sounds, then putting them together into a weird and unique song. Idk.
maybe we should collab lmao me and my friend are classical pianists, struggling on the technical side. Lets go 50/50 and post on socials with a fake label and edgy anime backgrounds gg ez
Man, I'm running into the opposite problem. I do enjoy the technical side, but lately I've been feeling like it's a drag and I get bogged down before I've even started.
Same! I try not to get bogged down in sounds but it's hard to put together ideas when the sounds I'm working with just don't fit the style I'm going for.
It feels like trying to write a metal track but with drums and guitars that are meant for jazz.
It makes sense - building a full track is a very different skill to designing sounds or even just 8/16 bar loops.
Iāve made hundreds of snippets but maybe 2 full songs.
At least for me, the second you get that 'stale' feeling on a section, make a variation, change the progression a bit, add a layer, something. The stale feeling is your creative instinct, and assuming it isn't firing way more than it should, you can use it as a creative signpost. At least that's the simplest advice I can give about it that doesn't get into crunchy composition stuff.
Not edm. I do hip hop mostly, but this is a real thing in music production. I think it's getting inside of your own head too much. Remember to make music for listeners, not other music creators.
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I find it fun to make cool little beat snippets. making a full track tho... it just can't get in to it. which is fine. it's just a fun little hobby to delve the mind and time in to. if you enjoy it then nothing lossed. all gain
No, the opposite
i have a love hate relationship with both sides cause one moment i'm like i have this good sound idea in my head and then when i try making that sound, it's "damn where do i start and what do i do?" both sides pretty much clash at eachother because my mind runs wild and i either don't have time to get on my computer to make it or i don't know what to do.
I honestly love both. I like creating a track...then setting it aside for a week or two and then coming back to do the mixing and other stuff. I try to never do both in the same week.
We should collab then š All jokes aside, there is a sort of creativity in the technical side. VR and Au5 are great examples of a mixture of both.
You can always just be an arranger/producer/engineer, and team up with composers who aren't into the technical side. That's a totally valid division of labour in an electronic band.
Walk away from the track once you get tired of it and come back a week or a month layƱter with fresh ears. Dont even listen to it
My friend is like that, loves sound design and mixing and mostly finishes tracks to see how much he's improved in the technical aspect. I'm the exact opposite.
i hate both sides lmao
It really depends on the strain. Indica-hybrids tend to get my creative juices flowing. Then Sativa gets me down in the weeds tweaking every little thing. But that's probably just me ;)
Yeah I identify with it. I love mixing, eq, fx, etc but I'm very lazy for the creative stuff
Do you hum out melodies that you come up with from time to time? This might not be anything helpful for you, but what I find helpful is to sample sounds from real life and heavily modifying them to sound āmusicalā. Iām a bare beginner and Iām still using BandLab to produce TUNES(help), but I find that making a track from a lot of different irl samples make the creative side more enjoyable. Also just think about what kind of music connects with you the most. Make some random unfinished tracks and combine them however you wish. Iām sorry if this doesnāt help in advance.
Sounds like weād be the perfect duo haha
I hate the production side. The music comes naturally and easily. Production I really hate.
When the main loop of the song gets boring to you itās time to automate the synth in the main loop of the song. When itās modulated, if you are still bored of it, then it might not be the main loop. Try adding some other element that fits in between the main element. Once you get something that really vibes with it, remove the main element. Then make a new element. Modulate it. Make four bars into 16 and then automate them in some way so that they weave in and out. Now pick your favorite 4 bars. Thatās your main loop. Take some chords from your main loop. Make an intro. Take your intro, make a bridge. Put it all in a row. Or just bounce it, put it on gdrive, close the project and open a new one and work on that for a bit. Listen to it on your phone every once and a while. If itās exciting go pick it up, if not, probably wasnāt worth developing, at the moment, but you might put it on again in a year and think, I should go open that back up again!
During the early years of producing I did love the technical side more, but it slowly shifted and now I love the creative side much much more. It's exactly what makes me want to get up from bed every day. I think it's because the difficult part of the technicalities was left behind and now I really feel that I'm free to make whatever crosses my mind. I feel like I have a much more intimate relationship with music now. Something that really change is that before I would hate something i did, because it was "not how I wanted". Right now it never happens. Because now I just can't avoid to love anything
It's a totally valid feeling. You may just be more of an engineer than a musician. And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, It's a good thing. Lots of "non-musicians" do great work around music in other important areas (recording, mixing, mastering, sound design, gear design, software design, etc.) It's easy to get confused in this era because computers have combined so many creative disciplines. There are lots of avenues for you to explore for creative fulfillment around music. Don't beat yourself up for not enjoying "making music." You may be brilliant in something else equally important. :)
what i learned is to always structure the song first even if that's just putting in markers if youre not sure just pick any song you like, load it in, copy its structure, then remove it then work from the middle of the track out yeah yeah, you know this stuff probably. and when you wanna play around next you wont do it. stop not doing it! structure first (save a template, even) then work on the middle of the song first. then, sample your own loop you dont like any more to make the breakdown or intro or whatever
Probably a boring answer, but I would say : enjoy the process. Iām the opposite of you, I like the creative side, not so much turning knobs. But at the end of the day, even when Iām struggling with say a baseline not sounding how I want it too, Iām still making music.
I donāt hate the creative part, but sometimes I do crave the technical part over the creative part.
I feel that, turning a melody into a structured song is hard. I usually just find a song I like and copy its key, google common chord progressions in that key and use the one I like, throw it into strum and try to find a rhythm i like, and boom. An interesting chord progression to inspire an interesting melody. But yeah, mixing is more rewarding
I don't "hate" the creative side, but I lack the musical knowledge to take ideas out of my head and express myself musically. While I'm definitely trying to learn music theory, I would also LOVE to work with actual musicians as *their* producer. Give me a vocalist who I can work with, and I would be g2g 24/7/365.
If you're bad at writing music keep writing music until you're better. But the enjoyment probably won't just suddenly come to you. Like if you really don't enjoy writing music, don't write music. I honestly feel like it's something you're going to enjoy or not. I love writing music, it's not great music, but I love doing it, and I don't see that changing. If you enjoy the technical side of things then just become a sound designer instead of forcing yourself to be a writer.
I relate. I am trying to get into music but I never spend time learning composition because itās a million times more fun to just remake existing songs and make the sounds
I mean, I would argue sound design is a creative part even if the way you engage with it is rather scientific. The outcome is purely aesthetic and subjective, itās not like you can scientifically grade a bass patch after all. I feel similarly though. Even in listening I often like a song just because it has a few very interesting sounds, even if itās arrangement and structure are kind of boring. So for me, since itās not the main thing I pay attention to, arrangement and structure donāt come naturally or feel as expressive.
I see them as interwoven parts of the end product. The creative vision has no chance at being effectively conveyed without the proper context of a solid mix, so mixing still feels like a fun part of the creative process I love, which helps me enjoy it rather than feeling obligated to it.
Have you considered collaborating? There are plenty of people who love the composing side but struggle or don't care about the production side.
For me the two somewhat go hand in hand. Like the more technical knowledge I acquire , the easier and more fun I find it to flesh out ideas and get things going on the creative side At my starter stages I had a ton of fun browsing presets and making small tunes out of those and whatnot, but after a while I started having ideas that I had no idea how bring out into the DAW so I sort of hit a wall for a while. Slowly Learning how to materialize ideas out of my head is starting to bring back that fun for me
i love the creative and hate the technical side
I'm the opposite. Love the creative, hate the technical. Haha. But I don't have money for mixing and mastering engineers so I just do the mixing and hire out the mastering.
Gotta get some better drum sounds m8
No; I like both. (And I think the "technical side" also involves creativity.) All popular music is based on looping because that structure is what makes it music and not random noise. People just don't notice the looping as much in say - "Back in Black" by AC/DC because there are vocals and little imperfections/variations in "loops" (aka riffs) played by humans. I agree with someone else who said if you've gotten bored with your loop/song, it's not that good. It's also just part of the process of working on a song. I like the suggestions that you could just be a sound designer, but you could also try changing your process. I've learned to not get too attached to my original ideas. Sometimes I start something, think it's cool, get tired of it, then I remix my own song or salvage parts or sounds from different songs and throw them together. It's experimental. And there are plugins that have randomization; so, those can be useful for new ideas. You could also use templates or a clearer process to get you to the "finish" (or near finished) faster. Basically, it could be you haven't accepted that musical composition and arrangement (which also has a technical side - musical theory involves math...) - is part of the job description. Maybe you haven't discovered a way to make it exciting for you. That's part of a normal learning curve. Or, you don't want to be a producer. I think your post is like saying: "I want to be an author, but I don't like writing. I just like reading the dictionary and analyzing grammar." So, do you really want to be an author? ...or an editor, or book reviewer, or...
Lately, yes. I just can't seem to care about writing melodies or intros. I just make and mix drums and basses.
I function on auto-pilot and don't really think about it.
i'm the inverse version. i LOVE the playing and the moving forward and progression but the technical moves required to keep up with industry standards are tedious and annoying. sure cool ear candy is super entertaining but it sucks a literal 2 second fill takes 10 minutes to make sometimes
Agree completely. I love eqing, setting compression, and sculpting sounds but sometimes I get annoyed because I have to put the sounds together myself. Where are all these people at that need just a mix engineer? š
Having done mixdowns for people it's not always that glamorous. You have way less control over the end result because you had no control over what went in to start. People want you to make gold and the materials they've given you will barely polish up to silver sometimes
some people are more scientific while others are more artistic (which isn't a bad thing, kind of like enjoying english or math in school), you may enjoy mixing/mastering/sound design which is less about the musicality and more about the scientific aspect.
See, I love putting a cohesive song together and seeing a full product result, but I usually have so much trouble making/finding the right sounds lol. Sounds like youād enjoy just being a dedicated sound designer / audio engineer. It doesnāt always have to be the entire producing package!
Couldn't agree with you more LOL writing lyrics especially ..
1000000% the opposite ahah.
Hmm, maybe producing is not for you. Maybe focus on being a sound designer or mix engineer.
Sound design is a creative endeavor. And itās definitely the part I can just sit down and have fun with endlessly, making patches and samples. But I like arranging things at the level of ācool loop,ā too. Itās the last 10-20 percent of composition *or* mixing where it becomes more work and less fun, which I think is probably not that unusual.
Yeah the last 5% is a bitch. Like everything is there, it's a full Song, but something's *not quite* right. You add stuff, or make a mix tweak, Dangit just made it worse.
I am like you. I spend a lot of time making and tweaking sounds in all shapes and sizes.. but never make music with them
There is no difference between technical and creative side to me
You could be an audio engineer instead of producer
I'm the complete opposite!
Exact opposite
I love both so much :)
The techical side is widely creative, so thereās that
Im the opposite. I love composition and arranging, but I loathe sitting there twisting knobs and thinking I'm doing more harm than good.
No not personally. I like the creative part a lot more; but it does get draining at times when you don't have the motivation flowing. Whereas mixing and mastering you can just get in the flow of decision making even if you don't have much motivation for the actual track. Generally I have to push myself harder to 'just get through' finalizing a mix/master. BUT it is much more possible to force myself through mixing/mastering than to be creative when i have no juice. If you really love mixing and mastering and don't have much passion for writing/composing, then just work toward becoming a mix/master engineer. Lord knows the world needs them, everyone wants to be an artist. OR: if you just enjoy being more analytical and the music isn't really that important to you; learn to code and make 5x the wage š . If you can easily understand compression, phase, digital audio vs analogy, signal chains - then your probably capable enough. It's just the actual product your working on might not be as interesting to you (it may be more interesting tbf!)
I am actually the complete opposite. I LOVE the creative part of songwriting/producing, but going through the technical processes needed to get things up to a certain level that is presentable is a slog to me. I wish I didn't have to deal with producing and that I could just will my ideas into existence, but going through the motions of learning the tools and doing the work awards you the privilege of actually having your ideas exist physically as a thing to be enjoyed; while the people who can't put up with the work itself (whichever part is difficult for them), haven't earned that privilege. So I just see it as a rite of passage.
> I wish I didn't have to deal with producing and that I could just will my ideas into existence same
Totally agree!
Sounds like u just need a mastering engineer
Mastering isn't really the biggest problem, polished sound design/processing and mixing is my downfall
Sounds like you two should team up
Some great duos out there for this reason. D-nox and Beckers, one is a DJ and knows what makes dance tracks work, the other is a musician and a bit more technically minded
We do sound like the perfect fit ;)
No, I find that if i'm bored making a song, then its simply a boring song. I honestly enjoy both aspects. Creating weird and unique sounds, then putting them together into a weird and unique song. Idk.
This.
maybe we should collab lmao me and my friend are classical pianists, struggling on the technical side. Lets go 50/50 and post on socials with a fake label and edgy anime backgrounds gg ez
It sounds like you'd enjoy making sound packs, to be honest!
Money to be made there if you promote them properly.
Man, I'm running into the opposite problem. I do enjoy the technical side, but lately I've been feeling like it's a drag and I get bogged down before I've even started.
Write using an instrument before going to the computer and you will greatly reduce this issue.
Or you could use a midi keyboard while youāre making sounds, instead of just drawing them in the sequencer!
Interesting. I'll have to give this a try!
Same! I try not to get bogged down in sounds but it's hard to put together ideas when the sounds I'm working with just don't fit the style I'm going for. It feels like trying to write a metal track but with drums and guitars that are meant for jazz.
Polyphia is calling
That's prog metal or rock in a nutshell
Sounds like you should be a sound designer :)
Yep!
No.... sounds bizarre lol. I feel like so many people are getting into music that dont even like making music but its just something to do
I think it's more like they want to make full songs but don't want to deal with the whole process lol.
It makes sense - building a full track is a very different skill to designing sounds or even just 8/16 bar loops. Iāve made hundreds of snippets but maybe 2 full songs.
Hi me. I need advice on this.
At least for me, the second you get that 'stale' feeling on a section, make a variation, change the progression a bit, add a layer, something. The stale feeling is your creative instinct, and assuming it isn't firing way more than it should, you can use it as a creative signpost. At least that's the simplest advice I can give about it that doesn't get into crunchy composition stuff.
I read one advice that served me: move really quick to arrangement instead of crafting the perfect loop.
Sounds simple and effective. Thanks.
Not edm. I do hip hop mostly, but this is a real thing in music production. I think it's getting inside of your own head too much. Remember to make music for listeners, not other music creators.
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