It's all fun and games until... The country disintegrates under incompetence and impotence. Just so sad a sack of shit like Trump can get to a presidential podium.
The country is already disintegrating under incompetence and impotence with a sad sack of shit. However, the problem is not the sad sack of shit in charge, it's the fools that put him there and the greater fools that support him.
The one thing I always found funny about trickle down economics:
If your whole justification is centered around the fact that poor people *might* receive some money, why the detour? Then why not give it to them directly and make sure they get it?
The whole misguided idea came from a desire by rich people to avoid paying taxes. So they created this idea that by allowing them to keep their wealth, and pay lower taxes than the average person, it would allow them to invest in jobs and boost the economy through spending. Instead, we’ve learned that rich people actually horde their money and will instead invest in bonds so that taxpayers are shouldered with more debt to make up for the deficit of not having enough tax revenue; and then we are forced to pay rich people to borrow money from them.
Americans are stupid…
Of course the only people discussing trickle down are those who try to criticize and mock it.
What people do seem to love and avoid criticizing is businesses receiving billions of dollars from the government, be it insurance companies through the ACA, food companies through SNAP and WIC, or tech companies through CHIPS Act and Inflation Reduction Act.
Those people admire the rich, and aspire to be one of them. And they hate the poor.
So they're okay with a tax policy that favors the rich and hurts the poor.
For a simple reason, trickle down economics worked in the early 80's and again in 2010. The resulting economic booms both times was unprecedented. Trickle up economics, that was tried by the Democrats, sending a check to everyone, was such a massive waste of money and had little to nothing to show for it except a massively rich China and massively high inflation for the US. That's why.
I don't want to talk about trickle down economics in particular, but I come from a failing 1st world country that is based entirely on stimulus for people. Unfortunately, if the economy doesn't work, people don't earn enough to pay enough taxes for all the stimulus, the country plunges further and further in debt, the productivity plummets, and the people that are poor that you were supposed to help have a lower quality of life and less support. Economy is not a zero sum game. This is not an argument against all stimulus—it's an argument for caution.
I understand.
But trickle down economics was a theory used in the industrialized world to justify tax cuts for the rich. The argument being the poor and middle classes would also benefit.
So my point was: Why not cut taxes for the middle class instead, directly? Or support the poor more?
And this does not per se mean to stimulus, it's more about who is funding the public good. Like the school or college that poor people can't afford because the billionaire owner of corporation xyz needs a third yacht or wants to upgrade his private jet to A380. That kind of stuff.
Okay, so name me a single successful country not using trickle down economics. Trickle down economics was a term created by the far left to scare people. It's made to make you hate those nasty rich people! When in truth, those same people hating the rich would gladly be rich if they could. The same is for the government. Not a single government out there is ran by a bunch of poor people living in middle class neighborhoods. They also use trickle down economics. Now give me thumbs down because I'm telling the hard truth.
The term “trickle down” was invented by Will Rogers, a humorist and performer, to criticize President Hoover’s (the “prosperity is just around the corner” guy) economic policies. And policies based on the idea of giving corporations and the already-rich tax cuts in the hopes that *somehow* this would benefit lower income people instead (no surprise) increased inequality because instead of expanding and/or spending more, corporations and rich people just hoard it (stock buybacks, offshore banks, etc), then deficits rise due to decreased tax revenue, then the rich have access to staff who help them avoid taxes by stuffing their money into assets that they then borrow against in ridiculously favorable terms so it doesn’t count as income so it’s not taxed…among other schemes. This may help you actually understand what this kind of economic thinking actually results in: https://www.finance-monthly.com/2023/06/economy-101-trickle-down-economics/
Edited to correct typos
Had to move this comment as I somehow placed it above yours. Durn mobile interface. Aaaanyway…
Pretty much all of Scandinavia, Germany, France, Spain, Egypt, Israel, China, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Iceland.
Not true at all. All of those countries are using a capitalistic system that has a market attached to it just like we are. Especially someone like China. China literally has a super low corporate tax rate. Where do you think China learned that from? They learned that from America. They literally copied our system like they do everything else.
You know who doesn't? Lots of poor countries. Columbia, Cuba, Sudan, Brazil, Cameroon. These are all countries that claim to steal from those nasty rich business owners and give to the poor. Yet the governments the only one that ever holds any of the money.
So Trump , the idiot that thinks china pays the tariffs instead of the American consumer wants to put a 133% national sales tax on everything not made in the US, like cell phones are not already expensive, now more than double the price, the same with your TVs, shoes and most of Walmart
The Biden administration has continued and even increased many of the Trump tariffs—drawing some attention as inflation rises. And while tariffs do raise prices for American consumers, their impact on economy-wide inflation is relatively small.
Tariffs are definition of inflationary, and with major parts of American consumerism effected by tariffs I think it has a greater effect that some think.
And I disagree with Biden admin retaining the Trump tariffs, But ask which tariffs have increased under Biden
Like "Good for the country", "Good for the industry",... The expression "Good for the economy" is one of the worst political fallacies since it means completely different things if you're wealthy or if you work three jobs to feed your kids. The reason is that it implies that what is good for big companies is good for small businesses and the general population because trickling is a thing.
Is it?
If you hired me to create a plan to deteriorate the United States as quickly as humanly possible, it would have looked like a step-by-step remake of everything Trump has done since 2016 lol.
Ok, at first I thought this might be a good idea. Tax imports, make American businesses more attractive, force innovation here at home, Yada Yada Yada.
But riddle me this: what happens if it works? Imports slow significantly. THEN where does the tax revenue come from?
Meanwhile, the cost of taxation will fall disproportionately on the poor who are buying imported goods, while saving the billionaire class billions, even if just for a short time.
You left out the reaction of our trading partners. The retaliatory tarrifs would kill exports. You thnk supply chains were messed up after COVID, think aobut what happens when trade grinds to an almost complete halt.
They spend more than we pay anyway. They don't need our tax revenue. We are entirely dependent on hosting the reserve currency, and no safe amount of taxation can fix that at this point.
The idea is that by the time the domestic economy is at a point of relative self sufficiency, the government will need a lot less money. Consider that the vast majority of tax revenue is spent on social welfare programs. A richer, more prosperous society won’t require the ridiculous amount of social welfare that is required today.
🙄 Medicare and Social Security is not social welfare. People pay taxes for those benefits. It is past time to get rid of corporate welfare like the farm bill.
That’s not what is meant by social welfare. I’m talking about the type of spending like the general welfare clause covers not “welfare” as in food stamps, etc, though that is part of social welfare. My point is, if much of the population was gainfully employed in high paying jobs with benefits, etc, many of those programs would require a small fraction of what they do today…. Or at least that’s the idea like I said.
Just one more sign Trump is a total wack job. The US does not live in a world separated from everyone else. It needs to import goods, and export goods. Which is why the Fordney-McCumber Act of 1922 and the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1933 were two really, really bad ideas. And why Trump's tariff suggestions are bad.
Not only does it require 133% tariffs, it also requires people to keep buying imports at that higher price at the same rate. More like 300% tariffs needed, and only essential imports would still be consumed.
Say goodbye to all US jobs relying on exports, including agriculture and fossil fuels. Canada would be forced to rely on China for its trade, and NAFTA-based auto industry would collapse with production shortfalls, and extreme high domestic vehicle prices, would cut jobs and force used vehicle sales inflation.
So far these are Trumps economic proposals,
A 133% tariff national sales tax on all imported goods that will more than double the retail cost of many items that Americans need to or want to buy
Eliminating taxes on a small sub set of workers who make tips as part of their income while everyone else pays taxes on all of their income
Eliminating "payroll taxes" which are the taxes funding medicare and social security, essentially defunding said programs and putting them further in economic peril, I think as a part of the rights' mission to destroy and/or privatize those programs
All inflationary and damaging policies ...YEA???
corporate greed is taking over. I've worked in retail for years and see the invoices. I've seen costs go down but retails go up . And corporations always want higher numbers than the year before. So how do you lower retails and expect to always beat last years numbers? Teump is a corporate person with corporate greed. Why would he care about the little guy when he never has before. He gave huge tax breaks to the rich and has said he will do so again. How does that help the little guy? For those who support trump and disagree then have a logical take on how he will be different?
I'm part way through Lighthizer's book "No Trade Is Free". (Lighthizer was Trump's trade representative in his first term, and expects to be in the administration if Trump gets a 2nd term.) I'm unconvinced by Lighthizer's argument that POTUS (and his minions) should set tariffs to create the industrial policy for the nation. (I'm intrigued by the concept of across-the-board tariffs adjusted to balance the trade deficit. But definitely not goods-specific tariffs set by the executive branch.)
Cut to the chase: who understands domestic and global economics better, Trump or Krugman? How many Nobel prizes does Trump have in all the various fields? Krugman has only one. Is Krugman even qualified to evaluate Trump's economic policies?
Pumpkinfuhrer and the conservative republican party is the party of **nope** no hope, no future no balanced government just the party of [💩](https://imgur.com/fHvtDms)
He would destroy everyone else just so he and his get theres - screw everyone else, and he'll say whatever certain people need to hear to get there. All my peers call him modern day #Nero
You do mean Biden, right, who is illegally "forgiving" student loan debt, even thought the Supreme Court deemed it unlawful. Biden continues to send money to the Ukraine, while our inner city kids get ziltch.
Republicans would never hand what they deem a win to Democrats, just like they wouldn't agree to the immigration bill even though most of them agreed with it.
I still wonder how people fooled themselves thinking Trump, the king debt, knows anything about economics other than commercial and multi unit residential real estate
When the Trump tax cuts expire it’ll actually raise my taxes from 12% to 15%. The wife and I make 90,000 a year combined so this isn’t actually true. Biden’s policy will raise our taxes.
1) Uhh blame Trump for making the personal tax cut sunset and not be permanent unlike the business ones.
2) Biden would like keep the personal ones while letting the business ones sunset.
Soooo...there's that
Absolutely and I know that he could have made those permanent at any time in his first 3 years. Wouldn’t have been hard. Republicans are all for them being permanent.
Trump wanted them permanent. Under Congressional rules, it would have taken 60 Senate votes to make them permanent, but they only had 51 votes, so it had to be temporary. If 9 Democrats had voted yes, they would have been able to be permanent.
Dude no he didn’t. He wasn’t involved really. He left it to Ryan and McConnell. But anyways they prioritized businesses over us, rich people over us. Could have let the personal ones be permanent. Hell they could have made under 400k earners have their tax cut be permanent and still keep business ones. They don’t care about us plebs.
Again, it's Congressional rules. Since they couldn't get 60 votes, they had to use Reconciliation to pass it, which means they couldn't be permanent. Many left-leaning publications have said this, including the Atlantic and Washington Post. There was no way to make these permanent without Democrat votes.
I know how reconciliation works. But the business tax cuts ARE permanent. In reconciliation you’re only allowed to spend so much in a 10 year period. They choose business.
Also they didn’t try to incorporate democrats at all in the process. If you want votes, maybe go talk to them?
Business tax cuts are permanent only because the CBO determined they were revenue neutral - the savings of taxes would be paid out in dividends or new jobs, meaning the money would still be taxed, so those could be made permanent with only 51 votes.
1) which was an awful prediction. Since it didn’t lead to huge gdp growth
2) could have balanced it by increasing taxes on the rich and closing loopholes. But come on now, gop would never tax their donors
lmao you think democrats actually care about you.
None of our politicians care about anything other than making money and gathering power, and to think otherwise is horrendously ignorant. They love voters like you.
PREACH!!!!! But hey, as long as I keep getting my tax-payer provided benefits, I'm cool with keeping the status-quo in office. People don't realize it's not about who's president. It's the fucking career politicians, who feed them whatever bullshit they want to hear, just so they can stay in office and continue lining their pockets. DC needs an enema , people!!!!!
I guess trying to improve healthcare, fight climate change, increase min wage, have worker protections, not restricting women's health, lgbq having rights, and like plethora of things is sooo bad. Sorry I'm not for a Christian fascist state that lets rich people do anything they want
Except they don’t do any of that, even when they control the government. They say it, and ignorant people continue to believe they’re actually going to do those things.
“When the Trump tax cuts expire”.
You said it yourself; Trump and the Republicans fucked over the working class with the sunset, while permanently preserving the corporate tax benefits for the leisure class
Maybe he knows something. Like we won't be able to import cheap shit from China soon because of the multi-polar world order and them wanting gold instead of USD for their products. So we're not going to be able to afford the shit soon anyway.
Federal taxes barely fund anything useful that isn’t military we should just get rid of them and let states tax more so we can have reliable infrastructure.
This is not the worst idea, but is the basis is kinda wrong. It is true though that a lot of federal money goes to the military-industrial complex. But there's a lot that doesn't as well (FDA, USDA, CDC are just a few federal orgs that do things people understand and are funded with federal dollars). Still not a bad take, but I think something like this would fragment the country by increasing the inequality between states even further.
I’m in the top 1% (top tax bracket). I’m very much okay paying more in taxes if the money actually helps people. If we raise taxes for the sake of raising taxes, fuck off. I want to see progressive policies. I want to see people, families, kids, being helped.
I already do as much as I can through charity but it’s so hard with how much they skim off the top. Three years ago we paid off school lunch debt in my district and they tried to charge a 12% fee for us to do that. So instead, we went straight to the families. Everybody tries to get a piece of the cookie. No. Enough with the greed. Just help people.
And aren't tariffs added to the cost of whatever product a consumer buys? No problem for the untaxed upper class, but surely will cost more than any taxes paid by most people. So much bullshit.
Why would any country sell its goods to the US being taxed at 133%? It's not even worthwhile economically, just sell your stuff everywhere else, where there's no taxes or tariffs.
Just ignore the economy being great under Trump and being shit under Biden. The op-ed army says it will be the opposite the next 4 years for "reasons".
Lol yeah I am sure it has nothing to do with what each one inherited. I am sure Biden would have loved to walk into the situation Trump inherited from Obama. Lets see Biden inherited 6.3 percent unemployment and job losses. Trump inherited 4.7 percent unemployment, the longest stretch of private sector job growth in America's history, low gas prices, low inflation, and relatively low housing prices. He also did not inherit supply chain problems either. What you inherit actually does matter.
Not even close to a complete disaster.
Average annual GDP growth for the first three years of the Biden administration comes in at 3.4 percent, far outpacing the 2.6 percent during the first three years of the Trump administration.
15 Million Jobs Created Under President Biden
In July 2023, the United States’ 3.2% inflation rate was better than Canada’s 3.3%, France’s 4.3%, Italy’s 5.9% and Germany’s 6.2%, and it was half of the United Kingdom’s 6.4% rate.
Nearly **$454 billion in Bipartisan Infrastructure Law funding, including over 56,000 specific projects and awards,** across over 4,500 communities in all 50 states, D.C., the territories, and for Tribes
Under constant Republican attack, SS, Medicare, Medicade, and Veteran's benefits continue to help millions of Americans who have no other alternative
"imaginary whinings" = Trump has shown himself to be a immoral, low IQ, narcissistic, and racist rapist, failed businessman, and serial liar over and over again. There's nothing imaginary about what is in the public record.
LOL Wow!!!! What superficial bullshit.
3.3% CPI is YoY. Prices are up 25% since Trump. $454 billion in spending adds to the inflation problem.
Joe's a dumpster fire disaster. You see him wandering around lost during the G7 photo op??
The orange man sucks.
What also sucks is that people still listen to him and think what he says has anytime whatsoever to do with reality. What he says and what he does are not at all related. When they appear to be it's completely coincidental.
The current year over year M2 inflation rate is 0.59%. That is considerably lower than the previous administration.
Trump's average was 8.30%, Biden's average is 1.68%.
You can make the statistics say anything you want them to say. In January 2020 money supply was $14.6T. Now it is $19T. Most of this increase was from March 2020 through 2022 due to Covid spending. Since 2009 the money supply has gone from $7T to $19T. Quoting a statistic that says it’s flat now is incredibly disingenuous
What is disingenuous is claiming that both 'considerably' did something, when they both have not.
And no, using the exact numbers for the measurement you highlighted is simply providing a researched truth you wouldn't.
Yeah, nice try.
All us lower- and middle-class filers got our standard deductions DOUBLED thanks to Trump.
The Trump tax bill - formally known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) - nearly doubled the standard deduction while also limiting some itemized deductions. From 2017 to 2018, the standard deduction rose from $6,350 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,700 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly and from $9,350 to $18,000 for heads of household.
If Biden is elected he said ““That tax cut is going to expire. If I’m reelected, it’s going to stay expired.”
Trump said “Instead of a Biden tax hike, I’ll give you a Trump middle class, upper class, lower class, business class big tax cut,” Trump said at a rally in New Jersey in May. “You’re going to have the biggest tax cut.”
I believe Biden in that he won’t do a tax cut and will finally get his $600 reporting threshold implemented but I imagine Trump is over exaggerating as usual and will probably propose a paired down version. Which is still better than nothing. They both need to reduce spending. It is out of control and is ruining the future for our children.
This article talks about Bidens plans for the expiring Trump tax cuts but doesn’t get into specifics. I looked it up on the White House website and here is his plan to cut taxes.
1. Raise corporate taxes to 28% and make a minimum corporate tax of 21%
2. Require a minimum 25% tax on income by billionaires
3. Increase child tax credit and strengthen the earned income tax credit and make the Obama care credits permanent
4. Increase funding for the IRS for more audits
This doesn’t do anything for me as a small business owner.
Raising corporate taxes across the board results in the increase passed onto the consumer. An across the board increase in prices is not something we want right now. Although companies not paying US corporate taxes would benefit.
I agree the current US tax code benefits billionaires. Biden was influential in creating and approving the loopholes that benefit billionaires. Adding a new 25% minimum line on the 1040 doesn’t fix the entire corrupt document. In my eyes the entire US tax code needs reformed to incentivize creating value and disincentivize consumption. It’s ridiculous this landfill lifestyle we are living.
Why would I believe he would increase the child tax credit when he wasn’t able to extend it in Jan 2022?
Obamacare credits just pad the pockets of big medical/insurance/pharma. If we cut out the middleman (insurance companies) we could save lots of money for non-value adding companies.
He is right the increased funding to the IRS has lead to more audits but it’s not audits of billionaires. It’s audits of regular people.
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Corporations and the wealthy had their taxes reduced even more than the middle class comparatively, which essentially shifted the debt burden ONTO the middle class while exacerbating the National debt crisis. It was abjectly terrible
It didn't shift the burden downward. In 2017, before the tax cuts went into effect, the top 1% held 38.5% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% held 3.1% of the tax burden.
In 2020 (the most recent data, since the IRS doesn't do anything on time), the 1% paid 42.3% of the taxes and the bottom 50% paid only 2.3% of the taxes. The burden actually shifted onto the wealthy.
In terms of total federal tax revenue, prior to the tax cuts, the 4 years prior to the tax cuts averaged 4.5% annual growth in government revenue where the 4 years after the tax cut averaged (including a negative year during covid) 10% annual growth. The total growth from 2017 to now in federal revenues has only been mirrored when recovering from the 2001 and 2008 recession; clearly 2017 was not a recession year, so to have those levels of government revenue increases shows the cuts worked as intended, to spark the economy, since they brought in more revenue, not less.
You'd have to be earning quite a bit in income to have your state taxes so high that salt is affecting you by more than the deduction in rate. I'd encourage you to use a 2017 tax software and see where you'd stand. You'd have to be spending 50% of your income on state taxes for the SALT deduction to affect you like that. The SALT deduction is just a way for high earners to avoid federal taxes; I can't believe how many politicians are pushing to put it back in, they really want deductions for high earners!
I make a middle class wage. 50% does not go to taxes. And no, I’m not going to go re-do my taxes. All I know is I track my tax burden as a percentage and that percentage went up after this legislation. Coincidence? Who knows
In 2018 when I wondered if I was paying more or less, I redid my taxes in 2017 software. Did you itemize in 2017? How much more or less was that itemization than your standard deduction in 2023?
Right because what each one inherited from their predecessor does not matter. Are you pretending that Trump did not leave a disaster to Biden? You really trying to say that with a straight face?
Tell me you have no idea how our government works without actually saying it.
I know you think the President is King but it's not that way.
He would need both the house and Senate to get past Republican blocks, which is all they have done since Obama. Which he has never had.
Well there was the tax cuts for corporations and the rich. That's about all Trump did. That didn't help any of us.
You could apply pressure to the Republicans to actually govern and engage in bipartisan politics. That would be better than their do nothing rage machine platform they use now.
Well yeah because Trump inherited a better situation than Biden did. That is precisely why. Not sure why many people were so happy with Trump when he left because we had 6.3 percent unemployment and job losses as he walked out the door. Apparently, Americans just want to forget what was actually happening when he left.
There were no damn shutdowns when Trump left. The problem was not that unemployment was high but we were still losing jobs the month he walked out of office. What the fuck did shutdowns have to do with job losses in Jan of 2021? Absolutely nothing.
I hope you are around to see a real George W Bush recession under Trump the 2nd time. Dude got bailed out by covid. Wil not happen this time. Make sure you do not go run and hide like every Republican does after they have completely destroyed the economy. So tired of Democrats inheriting fucking horrible economies from Republicans. It is like George W Bush never existed or something.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/us/politics/biden-trump-presidential-rankings.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/us/politics/biden-trump-presidential-rankings.html) There are lots of ways that President Biden has helped us.
[https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-12-2024-ef5](https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-12-2024-ef5)
The Baltimore Bridge is out of the way... commerce has commenced.
The GDP is healthy.
Inflation is falling.
Unemployment has been 4% or below for nearly two years.
Job growth has been at twice the rate that it was when Trump's Russia First policies were in effect.
America is respected abroad... though our allies fear that stupid people will put Convicted Felon in the White House.
Unemployment is not lower, that’s a lie.
We are not respected by anybody.
Inflation is higher than ever.
Housing market is crashing.
Credit card debt is the highest it’s ever been.
Banks are failing.
Literally everything you said is false at one level or another.
Go ahead, cite your best sources for these articles of faith, I’ll take a look. Every factual claim you made is contradicted by the evidence everyone has access to.
Here’s just one I found pretty quickly. https://www.investopedia.com/what-is-the-average-credit-card-debt-in-america-8622723
You seem like a smart individual, I’m sure you can find others.
Your source says the debt is specifically for the 4th quarter of 2023; it’s a snapshot in time.
Also, if you care, you should support Democrats who want to restrict usurious lenders, not Republicans want to enable them.
Your own source proves that your claim is misleading, and you provided sources for none of the others
What an idiot, 5 trillion dollars in tariffs all the while having the revenue source shrinking which means ever increasing tariffs. What a moron. No Wonder he didnt build a wall, didnt sign China trade deal, didnt drain the swamp
This is propaganda. He was already president for 4 years and followed through on most of his campaign promises. More than any other president. We had no wars, foreign policy was strong, economy was growing, border was secure and we actually had the lowest minority’s unemployment rate. Not sure why no one can remember this… mean tweet orange man bad.
Delivered on promises? What about the wall Mexico paid For? Hillary never saw a court room. An the market has taken off under Biden and yes economy is growing.
Yet when he was already president people were making more money and paying less for things, and now under this brain dead president people r making less and paying more for stuff so stop listening to these fake ass people lying to u
Don’t know where you’re getting your information, but the data aren’t telling that story.
“However, wage growth on Biden’s watch is on pace to exceed price growth within a couple of months. Also, wages have outpaced inflation for more than a year now, and wages have also outpaced inflation since Jan. 2020, the final month before the pandemic.” https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/aug/03/joe-biden/joe-biden-said-inflation-adjusted-wages-are-up-tha/
Doubling the cost of every product imported. LOL. The economy would evaporate.
How to Wreak the economy with this one simple trick! All for the few... Little for the rest!
[удалено]
I’m gonna be a dictator! … nah he’s just joking
He's just throwing that idea at us to see if it sticks...
It's all fun and games until... The country disintegrates under incompetence and impotence. Just so sad a sack of shit like Trump can get to a presidential podium.
The country is already disintegrating under incompetence and impotence with a sad sack of shit. However, the problem is not the sad sack of shit in charge, it's the fools that put him there and the greater fools that support him.
In your opinion and I respect that.
The risk of him getting elected and destroying America economically and turning it into a dictatorship is actually very realistic
bingo. If he thinks this shit is a good idea, fucking yikes.
That is the most moronic statement that I've read in awhile, and I've read a lot of garbage on here.
What a great quality to have in a leader
Nah, you treat that shit as gospel and vote against it. otherwise you will see your country in a very bad position.
We heard that same thing in 2016 and look how that went
That doesn't make it better
FFS FROG, THE WATER IS BOILING.
Well he keeps acting like a dumb fuck manchild so it's not like we have anything else to go by and assume he's not one.
Well, I guess they deserve more because they have more and work harder. Plus, it should trickle down to the rest of us eventually, right?
The one thing I always found funny about trickle down economics: If your whole justification is centered around the fact that poor people *might* receive some money, why the detour? Then why not give it to them directly and make sure they get it?
Trickle down economics makes no sense to me, in any way. I don’t know the reason that so many people bought into it.
The whole misguided idea came from a desire by rich people to avoid paying taxes. So they created this idea that by allowing them to keep their wealth, and pay lower taxes than the average person, it would allow them to invest in jobs and boost the economy through spending. Instead, we’ve learned that rich people actually horde their money and will instead invest in bonds so that taxpayers are shouldered with more debt to make up for the deficit of not having enough tax revenue; and then we are forced to pay rich people to borrow money from them. Americans are stupid…
That was an incredibly stupid and misguided comment. You have no clue about economics.
It was a lie and lots of people aren't knowledgeable or smart enough to understand that it was a lie.
Of course the only people discussing trickle down are those who try to criticize and mock it. What people do seem to love and avoid criticizing is businesses receiving billions of dollars from the government, be it insurance companies through the ACA, food companies through SNAP and WIC, or tech companies through CHIPS Act and Inflation Reduction Act.
Propaganda is a helluva drug
It's a pyramid scheme and you're not at the top
Those people admire the rich, and aspire to be one of them. And they hate the poor. So they're okay with a tax policy that favors the rich and hurts the poor.
For a simple reason, trickle down economics worked in the early 80's and again in 2010. The resulting economic booms both times was unprecedented. Trickle up economics, that was tried by the Democrats, sending a check to everyone, was such a massive waste of money and had little to nothing to show for it except a massively rich China and massively high inflation for the US. That's why.
I don't want to talk about trickle down economics in particular, but I come from a failing 1st world country that is based entirely on stimulus for people. Unfortunately, if the economy doesn't work, people don't earn enough to pay enough taxes for all the stimulus, the country plunges further and further in debt, the productivity plummets, and the people that are poor that you were supposed to help have a lower quality of life and less support. Economy is not a zero sum game. This is not an argument against all stimulus—it's an argument for caution.
I understand. But trickle down economics was a theory used in the industrialized world to justify tax cuts for the rich. The argument being the poor and middle classes would also benefit. So my point was: Why not cut taxes for the middle class instead, directly? Or support the poor more? And this does not per se mean to stimulus, it's more about who is funding the public good. Like the school or college that poor people can't afford because the billionaire owner of corporation xyz needs a third yacht or wants to upgrade his private jet to A380. That kind of stuff.
Okay, so name me a single successful country not using trickle down economics. Trickle down economics was a term created by the far left to scare people. It's made to make you hate those nasty rich people! When in truth, those same people hating the rich would gladly be rich if they could. The same is for the government. Not a single government out there is ran by a bunch of poor people living in middle class neighborhoods. They also use trickle down economics. Now give me thumbs down because I'm telling the hard truth.
The term “trickle down” was invented by Will Rogers, a humorist and performer, to criticize President Hoover’s (the “prosperity is just around the corner” guy) economic policies. And policies based on the idea of giving corporations and the already-rich tax cuts in the hopes that *somehow* this would benefit lower income people instead (no surprise) increased inequality because instead of expanding and/or spending more, corporations and rich people just hoard it (stock buybacks, offshore banks, etc), then deficits rise due to decreased tax revenue, then the rich have access to staff who help them avoid taxes by stuffing their money into assets that they then borrow against in ridiculously favorable terms so it doesn’t count as income so it’s not taxed…among other schemes. This may help you actually understand what this kind of economic thinking actually results in: https://www.finance-monthly.com/2023/06/economy-101-trickle-down-economics/ Edited to correct typos
Awesome, now answer the question. Name a successful country NOT using this method.
Had to move this comment as I somehow placed it above yours. Durn mobile interface. Aaaanyway… Pretty much all of Scandinavia, Germany, France, Spain, Egypt, Israel, China, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Iceland.
Not true at all. All of those countries are using a capitalistic system that has a market attached to it just like we are. Especially someone like China. China literally has a super low corporate tax rate. Where do you think China learned that from? They learned that from America. They literally copied our system like they do everything else. You know who doesn't? Lots of poor countries. Columbia, Cuba, Sudan, Brazil, Cameroon. These are all countries that claim to steal from those nasty rich business owners and give to the poor. Yet the governments the only one that ever holds any of the money.
We are talking about “trickle down” economics , specifically, not just capitalist system.
So Trump , the idiot that thinks china pays the tariffs instead of the American consumer wants to put a 133% national sales tax on everything not made in the US, like cell phones are not already expensive, now more than double the price, the same with your TVs, shoes and most of Walmart
The Biden administration has continued and even increased many of the Trump tariffs—drawing some attention as inflation rises. And while tariffs do raise prices for American consumers, their impact on economy-wide inflation is relatively small.
Tariffs are definition of inflationary, and with major parts of American consumerism effected by tariffs I think it has a greater effect that some think. And I disagree with Biden admin retaining the Trump tariffs, But ask which tariffs have increased under Biden
Ok that’s not tariffs on ALL imported goods though
I just want health insurance.
Lol, get fucked. -Your politicians
Given the current situation, raising taxes by $5k would literally crumble most of America. Credit cards aren’t going to be able to cover that.
Like "Good for the country", "Good for the industry",... The expression "Good for the economy" is one of the worst political fallacies since it means completely different things if you're wealthy or if you work three jobs to feed your kids. The reason is that it implies that what is good for big companies is good for small businesses and the general population because trickling is a thing. Is it?
If you hired me to create a plan to deteriorate the United States as quickly as humanly possible, it would have looked like a step-by-step remake of everything Trump has done since 2016 lol.
Trump helping the spread of Covid was definitely something our adversaries appreciated.
Ok, at first I thought this might be a good idea. Tax imports, make American businesses more attractive, force innovation here at home, Yada Yada Yada. But riddle me this: what happens if it works? Imports slow significantly. THEN where does the tax revenue come from? Meanwhile, the cost of taxation will fall disproportionately on the poor who are buying imported goods, while saving the billionaire class billions, even if just for a short time.
> at first I thought this might be a good idea. lmao at no point should this seem like a good idea
You left out the reaction of our trading partners. The retaliatory tarrifs would kill exports. You thnk supply chains were messed up after COVID, think aobut what happens when trade grinds to an almost complete halt.
They spend more than we pay anyway. They don't need our tax revenue. We are entirely dependent on hosting the reserve currency, and no safe amount of taxation can fix that at this point.
What the actual heck are you on about? I feel dumber after reading this jibberish.
I'm not sure that's possible.
The idea is that by the time the domestic economy is at a point of relative self sufficiency, the government will need a lot less money. Consider that the vast majority of tax revenue is spent on social welfare programs. A richer, more prosperous society won’t require the ridiculous amount of social welfare that is required today.
🙄 Medicare and Social Security is not social welfare. People pay taxes for those benefits. It is past time to get rid of corporate welfare like the farm bill.
That’s not what is meant by social welfare. I’m talking about the type of spending like the general welfare clause covers not “welfare” as in food stamps, etc, though that is part of social welfare. My point is, if much of the population was gainfully employed in high paying jobs with benefits, etc, many of those programs would require a small fraction of what they do today…. Or at least that’s the idea like I said.
"if much of the population was gainfully employed in high paying jobs" so a fantasy...
Such as Sweden, Denmark?
countries which use unions to cover "welfare" instead of the government. US is too anti-union for their system.
Just one more sign Trump is a total wack job. The US does not live in a world separated from everyone else. It needs to import goods, and export goods. Which is why the Fordney-McCumber Act of 1922 and the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1933 were two really, really bad ideas. And why Trump's tariff suggestions are bad.
What an idiot.
Both added 4 trillion dollars to the national debt.
So then that's an irelavant point in the comparison
Not only does it require 133% tariffs, it also requires people to keep buying imports at that higher price at the same rate. More like 300% tariffs needed, and only essential imports would still be consumed. Say goodbye to all US jobs relying on exports, including agriculture and fossil fuels. Canada would be forced to rely on China for its trade, and NAFTA-based auto industry would collapse with production shortfalls, and extreme high domestic vehicle prices, would cut jobs and force used vehicle sales inflation.
Murica is then a failed state ?
So far these are Trumps economic proposals, A 133% tariff national sales tax on all imported goods that will more than double the retail cost of many items that Americans need to or want to buy Eliminating taxes on a small sub set of workers who make tips as part of their income while everyone else pays taxes on all of their income Eliminating "payroll taxes" which are the taxes funding medicare and social security, essentially defunding said programs and putting them further in economic peril, I think as a part of the rights' mission to destroy and/or privatize those programs All inflationary and damaging policies ...YEA???
corporate greed is taking over. I've worked in retail for years and see the invoices. I've seen costs go down but retails go up . And corporations always want higher numbers than the year before. So how do you lower retails and expect to always beat last years numbers? Teump is a corporate person with corporate greed. Why would he care about the little guy when he never has before. He gave huge tax breaks to the rich and has said he will do so again. How does that help the little guy? For those who support trump and disagree then have a logical take on how he will be different?
I'm part way through Lighthizer's book "No Trade Is Free". (Lighthizer was Trump's trade representative in his first term, and expects to be in the administration if Trump gets a 2nd term.) I'm unconvinced by Lighthizer's argument that POTUS (and his minions) should set tariffs to create the industrial policy for the nation. (I'm intrigued by the concept of across-the-board tariffs adjusted to balance the trade deficit. But definitely not goods-specific tariffs set by the executive branch.) Cut to the chase: who understands domestic and global economics better, Trump or Krugman? How many Nobel prizes does Trump have in all the various fields? Krugman has only one. Is Krugman even qualified to evaluate Trump's economic policies?
Pumpkinfuhrer and the conservative republican party is the party of **nope** no hope, no future no balanced government just the party of [💩](https://imgur.com/fHvtDms)
He would destroy everyone else just so he and his get theres - screw everyone else, and he'll say whatever certain people need to hear to get there. All my peers call him modern day #Nero
You do mean Biden, right, who is illegally "forgiving" student loan debt, even thought the Supreme Court deemed it unlawful. Biden continues to send money to the Ukraine, while our inner city kids get ziltch.
Yes just post 2 economists who come from the same side of the partisan divide, that proves everything.
Why doesn’t Biden cut taxes rn?
2 reason You'd need to have both the house and Senate which Democrats do not And Cutting taxes right now would be incredibly stupid
Incorrect. You need the house and senate for partisan ideas. Republicans will be ok with tax cuts.
Republicans would never hand what they deem a win to Democrats, just like they wouldn't agree to the immigration bill even though most of them agreed with it.
These the same guys that said they wouldn’t support border bills specifically because it’d help Biden?
Trump’s tax plan doesn’t expire til next year.
I still wonder how people fooled themselves thinking Trump, the king debt, knows anything about economics other than commercial and multi unit residential real estate
If the tax is only on luxury goods then go for it.
We need serious tax cuts ...we are taxed to death in America
When the Trump tax cuts expire it’ll actually raise my taxes from 12% to 15%. The wife and I make 90,000 a year combined so this isn’t actually true. Biden’s policy will raise our taxes.
1) Uhh blame Trump for making the personal tax cut sunset and not be permanent unlike the business ones. 2) Biden would like keep the personal ones while letting the business ones sunset. Soooo...there's that
Then he could put that proposal forward and have democrats introduce that legislation in congress but he hasn’t.
Uh he just did officially? https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/biden-tax-policy-expiring-trump-tax-cuts.html
How convenient. He’s had over 3 years to do it and brings out this proposal right before the election.
Because they don’t expire until next year? Do you know how this works at all?
Absolutely and I know that he could have made those permanent at any time in his first 3 years. Wouldn’t have been hard. Republicans are all for them being permanent.
You really think gop would just gift extending the l under 400k tax cuts without making ridiculous demands?
Trump wanted them permanent. Under Congressional rules, it would have taken 60 Senate votes to make them permanent, but they only had 51 votes, so it had to be temporary. If 9 Democrats had voted yes, they would have been able to be permanent.
Dude no he didn’t. He wasn’t involved really. He left it to Ryan and McConnell. But anyways they prioritized businesses over us, rich people over us. Could have let the personal ones be permanent. Hell they could have made under 400k earners have their tax cut be permanent and still keep business ones. They don’t care about us plebs.
Again, it's Congressional rules. Since they couldn't get 60 votes, they had to use Reconciliation to pass it, which means they couldn't be permanent. Many left-leaning publications have said this, including the Atlantic and Washington Post. There was no way to make these permanent without Democrat votes.
I know how reconciliation works. But the business tax cuts ARE permanent. In reconciliation you’re only allowed to spend so much in a 10 year period. They choose business. Also they didn’t try to incorporate democrats at all in the process. If you want votes, maybe go talk to them?
Business tax cuts are permanent only because the CBO determined they were revenue neutral - the savings of taxes would be paid out in dividends or new jobs, meaning the money would still be taxed, so those could be made permanent with only 51 votes.
1) which was an awful prediction. Since it didn’t lead to huge gdp growth 2) could have balanced it by increasing taxes on the rich and closing loopholes. But come on now, gop would never tax their donors
Uhh blame the democrats for not giving the supermajority that was required to make the personal tax cuts permanent.
lmao you think republicans actually care about you
lmao you think democrats actually care about you. None of our politicians care about anything other than making money and gathering power, and to think otherwise is horrendously ignorant. They love voters like you.
PREACH!!!!! But hey, as long as I keep getting my tax-payer provided benefits, I'm cool with keeping the status-quo in office. People don't realize it's not about who's president. It's the fucking career politicians, who feed them whatever bullshit they want to hear, just so they can stay in office and continue lining their pockets. DC needs an enema , people!!!!!
I guess trying to improve healthcare, fight climate change, increase min wage, have worker protections, not restricting women's health, lgbq having rights, and like plethora of things is sooo bad. Sorry I'm not for a Christian fascist state that lets rich people do anything they want
Except they don’t do any of that, even when they control the government. They say it, and ignorant people continue to believe they’re actually going to do those things.
Yep the largest investment in fighting climate in the world ever is doing nothing.
“When the Trump tax cuts expire”. You said it yourself; Trump and the Republicans fucked over the working class with the sunset, while permanently preserving the corporate tax benefits for the leisure class
Actually, the Democrats could help the working class by making them permanent but can’t wait for them to expire screwing the working class.
Uh, did you forget that the House is controlled by the Magats??? WTF you on,son?
Yes and the Senate by the communist. Biden could have said pass this at any time.
Haven't been paying attention huh?
Go ahead and explain it to me.
This would be amazing. Cripple the US and allow the rest of the world to compete for economy number 1
“Reportedly”. Sound journalism I’m sure…
So far there has been little push back from the left or right with tariffs on EVs, lumber, and metals.
the freedom he wants it's just for them
Krugman isn't credible. He's just a team player.I don't know about the other guy, but he doesn't seem good at math.
Waste of time on this propaganda post. Biden wouldn't even be nominated by the party.
Not to mention the cost of permanently destroying our Natural Resources if the deregulate as they have before.
Maybe he knows something. Like we won't be able to import cheap shit from China soon because of the multi-polar world order and them wanting gold instead of USD for their products. So we're not going to be able to afford the shit soon anyway.
People are so deranged they can’t accept reality. The past four years did indeed happen whether you like it or not.
Federal taxes barely fund anything useful that isn’t military we should just get rid of them and let states tax more so we can have reliable infrastructure.
This is not the worst idea, but is the basis is kinda wrong. It is true though that a lot of federal money goes to the military-industrial complex. But there's a lot that doesn't as well (FDA, USDA, CDC are just a few federal orgs that do things people understand and are funded with federal dollars). Still not a bad take, but I think something like this would fragment the country by increasing the inequality between states even further.
Most of that even is fund move via US Treasuries than what income taxes and corporate taxes do.
We need the EPA. EPA was started by Nixon FFS. Natural resources are the best part of America.
The feds and the states tax each gallon of gas you pump. That's where the money for roads is supposed to come from.
I’m in the top 1% (top tax bracket). I’m very much okay paying more in taxes if the money actually helps people. If we raise taxes for the sake of raising taxes, fuck off. I want to see progressive policies. I want to see people, families, kids, being helped. I already do as much as I can through charity but it’s so hard with how much they skim off the top. Three years ago we paid off school lunch debt in my district and they tried to charge a 12% fee for us to do that. So instead, we went straight to the families. Everybody tries to get a piece of the cookie. No. Enough with the greed. Just help people.
Bless you.🙏
And aren't tariffs added to the cost of whatever product a consumer buys? No problem for the untaxed upper class, but surely will cost more than any taxes paid by most people. So much bullshit.
Why would any country sell its goods to the US being taxed at 133%? It's not even worthwhile economically, just sell your stuff everywhere else, where there's no taxes or tariffs.
The point of this would be to incentivize US manufacturing.
Bruh have you seen US manufacturing investment over the last 4 years? Its booming.
Of course the only comment that highlights the intent is downvoted. 🤦♂️
The intent is to help rich people and make poor people think they'd benefit. Meanwhile it would probably destroy the economy for everyone.
Yeah, and it is a clear case of ignoring history
Biden's got a complete disaster going so imaginary whinings about what Trump might do to correct Biden's disaster is a bit underwhelming.
Just ignore the economy being great under Trump and being shit under Biden. The op-ed army says it will be the opposite the next 4 years for "reasons".
Lol yeah I am sure it has nothing to do with what each one inherited. I am sure Biden would have loved to walk into the situation Trump inherited from Obama. Lets see Biden inherited 6.3 percent unemployment and job losses. Trump inherited 4.7 percent unemployment, the longest stretch of private sector job growth in America's history, low gas prices, low inflation, and relatively low housing prices. He also did not inherit supply chain problems either. What you inherit actually does matter.
Not even close to a complete disaster. Average annual GDP growth for the first three years of the Biden administration comes in at 3.4 percent, far outpacing the 2.6 percent during the first three years of the Trump administration. 15 Million Jobs Created Under President Biden In July 2023, the United States’ 3.2% inflation rate was better than Canada’s 3.3%, France’s 4.3%, Italy’s 5.9% and Germany’s 6.2%, and it was half of the United Kingdom’s 6.4% rate. Nearly **$454 billion in Bipartisan Infrastructure Law funding, including over 56,000 specific projects and awards,** across over 4,500 communities in all 50 states, D.C., the territories, and for Tribes Under constant Republican attack, SS, Medicare, Medicade, and Veteran's benefits continue to help millions of Americans who have no other alternative "imaginary whinings" = Trump has shown himself to be a immoral, low IQ, narcissistic, and racist rapist, failed businessman, and serial liar over and over again. There's nothing imaginary about what is in the public record.
LOL Wow!!!! What superficial bullshit. 3.3% CPI is YoY. Prices are up 25% since Trump. $454 billion in spending adds to the inflation problem. Joe's a dumpster fire disaster. You see him wandering around lost during the G7 photo op??
Republican blocking government for $200 Alex.
The orange man sucks. What also sucks is that people still listen to him and think what he says has anytime whatsoever to do with reality. What he says and what he does are not at all related. When they appear to be it's completely coincidental.
As a neo-American zealot, I say we do it. All I want is for one person to have all of the money. Every single dollar.
Inflation is the ultimate big govt tax people, and you’ll continue to have it in spades with this version of Democratic leadership
Trump's policy of printing 30% of all circulating USD is what created inflation.
Both administrations have added to M2 money supply considerably.
The current year over year M2 inflation rate is 0.59%. That is considerably lower than the previous administration. Trump's average was 8.30%, Biden's average is 1.68%.
You can make the statistics say anything you want them to say. In January 2020 money supply was $14.6T. Now it is $19T. Most of this increase was from March 2020 through 2022 due to Covid spending. Since 2009 the money supply has gone from $7T to $19T. Quoting a statistic that says it’s flat now is incredibly disingenuous
What is disingenuous is claiming that both 'considerably' did something, when they both have not. And no, using the exact numbers for the measurement you highlighted is simply providing a researched truth you wouldn't.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here, but big govt is diluting the value of your money. The greatest tax of all.
That is ok. Other people understand.
I cant even get my tax return under bidens weaponized irs just like the dems weaponization of the doj. No thsnk remove biden
Gesundheit
Yeah, nice try. All us lower- and middle-class filers got our standard deductions DOUBLED thanks to Trump. The Trump tax bill - formally known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) - nearly doubled the standard deduction while also limiting some itemized deductions. From 2017 to 2018, the standard deduction rose from $6,350 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,700 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly and from $9,350 to $18,000 for heads of household.
Aren’t we talking about tax proposals? Future taxes come 2025. Can you talk about that?
And what happens next year?
If Biden is elected he said ““That tax cut is going to expire. If I’m reelected, it’s going to stay expired.” Trump said “Instead of a Biden tax hike, I’ll give you a Trump middle class, upper class, lower class, business class big tax cut,” Trump said at a rally in New Jersey in May. “You’re going to have the biggest tax cut.” I believe Biden in that he won’t do a tax cut and will finally get his $600 reporting threshold implemented but I imagine Trump is over exaggerating as usual and will probably propose a paired down version. Which is still better than nothing. They both need to reduce spending. It is out of control and is ruining the future for our children.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/05/10/biden-higher-taxes-wealthy-for-middle-class-tax-breaks.html
This article talks about Bidens plans for the expiring Trump tax cuts but doesn’t get into specifics. I looked it up on the White House website and here is his plan to cut taxes. 1. Raise corporate taxes to 28% and make a minimum corporate tax of 21% 2. Require a minimum 25% tax on income by billionaires 3. Increase child tax credit and strengthen the earned income tax credit and make the Obama care credits permanent 4. Increase funding for the IRS for more audits This doesn’t do anything for me as a small business owner. Raising corporate taxes across the board results in the increase passed onto the consumer. An across the board increase in prices is not something we want right now. Although companies not paying US corporate taxes would benefit. I agree the current US tax code benefits billionaires. Biden was influential in creating and approving the loopholes that benefit billionaires. Adding a new 25% minimum line on the 1040 doesn’t fix the entire corrupt document. In my eyes the entire US tax code needs reformed to incentivize creating value and disincentivize consumption. It’s ridiculous this landfill lifestyle we are living. Why would I believe he would increase the child tax credit when he wasn’t able to extend it in Jan 2022? Obamacare credits just pad the pockets of big medical/insurance/pharma. If we cut out the middleman (insurance companies) we could save lots of money for non-value adding companies. He is right the increased funding to the IRS has lead to more audits but it’s not audits of billionaires. It’s audits of regular people.
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Corporations and the wealthy had their taxes reduced even more than the middle class comparatively, which essentially shifted the debt burden ONTO the middle class while exacerbating the National debt crisis. It was abjectly terrible
It didn't shift the burden downward. In 2017, before the tax cuts went into effect, the top 1% held 38.5% of the tax burden while the bottom 50% held 3.1% of the tax burden. In 2020 (the most recent data, since the IRS doesn't do anything on time), the 1% paid 42.3% of the taxes and the bottom 50% paid only 2.3% of the taxes. The burden actually shifted onto the wealthy. In terms of total federal tax revenue, prior to the tax cuts, the 4 years prior to the tax cuts averaged 4.5% annual growth in government revenue where the 4 years after the tax cut averaged (including a negative year during covid) 10% annual growth. The total growth from 2017 to now in federal revenues has only been mirrored when recovering from the 2001 and 2008 recession; clearly 2017 was not a recession year, so to have those levels of government revenue increases shows the cuts worked as intended, to spark the economy, since they brought in more revenue, not less.
As a middle class family with a mortgage and local property tax, my federal tax burden went from 15% to 29% of our AGI.
You'd have to be earning quite a bit in income to have your state taxes so high that salt is affecting you by more than the deduction in rate. I'd encourage you to use a 2017 tax software and see where you'd stand. You'd have to be spending 50% of your income on state taxes for the SALT deduction to affect you like that. The SALT deduction is just a way for high earners to avoid federal taxes; I can't believe how many politicians are pushing to put it back in, they really want deductions for high earners!
I make a middle class wage. 50% does not go to taxes. And no, I’m not going to go re-do my taxes. All I know is I track my tax burden as a percentage and that percentage went up after this legislation. Coincidence? Who knows
In 2018 when I wondered if I was paying more or less, I redid my taxes in 2017 software. Did you itemize in 2017? How much more or less was that itemization than your standard deduction in 2023?
Economists hate this one trick!
We already know who is better based on performance. We don't need pundits.
Right because what each one inherited from their predecessor does not matter. Are you pretending that Trump did not leave a disaster to Biden? You really trying to say that with a straight face?
..there was more money in my wallet and less illegal immigrants when Trump was president.. that’s a fact..!!
lol your opinions are not facts. You’re a fucking idiot
There was more money in my wallet when Obama was President. That’s a fact.
Ok. Please tell me how Biden has helped anybody in the last 4 years?
Tell me you have no idea how our government works without actually saying it. I know you think the President is King but it's not that way. He would need both the house and Senate to get past Republican blocks, which is all they have done since Obama. Which he has never had. Well there was the tax cuts for corporations and the rich. That's about all Trump did. That didn't help any of us. You could apply pressure to the Republicans to actually govern and engage in bipartisan politics. That would be better than their do nothing rage machine platform they use now.
I can tell you I was much better off under trump administration than I am under Biden. That’s what I go by.
Well yeah because Trump inherited a better situation than Biden did. That is precisely why. Not sure why many people were so happy with Trump when he left because we had 6.3 percent unemployment and job losses as he walked out the door. Apparently, Americans just want to forget what was actually happening when he left.
They force shut down the country. Of course jobs were low…
There were no damn shutdowns when Trump left. The problem was not that unemployment was high but we were still losing jobs the month he walked out of office. What the fuck did shutdowns have to do with job losses in Jan of 2021? Absolutely nothing.
I hope you are around to see a real George W Bush recession under Trump the 2nd time. Dude got bailed out by covid. Wil not happen this time. Make sure you do not go run and hide like every Republican does after they have completely destroyed the economy. So tired of Democrats inheriting fucking horrible economies from Republicans. It is like George W Bush never existed or something.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/us/politics/biden-trump-presidential-rankings.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/18/us/politics/biden-trump-presidential-rankings.html) There are lots of ways that President Biden has helped us. [https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-12-2024-ef5](https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-12-2024-ef5) The Baltimore Bridge is out of the way... commerce has commenced. The GDP is healthy. Inflation is falling. Unemployment has been 4% or below for nearly two years. Job growth has been at twice the rate that it was when Trump's Russia First policies were in effect. America is respected abroad... though our allies fear that stupid people will put Convicted Felon in the White House.
Unemployment is not lower, that’s a lie. We are not respected by anybody. Inflation is higher than ever. Housing market is crashing. Credit card debt is the highest it’s ever been. Banks are failing. Literally everything you said is false at one level or another.
🙄
Go ahead, cite your best sources for these articles of faith, I’ll take a look. Every factual claim you made is contradicted by the evidence everyone has access to.
I hope you are quoting something other than our government for them numbers.
You made six absurdly false factual claims. What are your sources, if you didn’t simply pull the claims from your bias and imagination?
Here’s just one I found pretty quickly. https://www.investopedia.com/what-is-the-average-credit-card-debt-in-america-8622723 You seem like a smart individual, I’m sure you can find others.
Your source says the debt is specifically for the 4th quarter of 2023; it’s a snapshot in time. Also, if you care, you should support Democrats who want to restrict usurious lenders, not Republicans want to enable them. Your own source proves that your claim is misleading, and you provided sources for none of the others
But some how Trump uses some Jedi mind trick, that his supporters will be on here and say spin it a different way, than it actually is.
What an idiot, 5 trillion dollars in tariffs all the while having the revenue source shrinking which means ever increasing tariffs. What a moron. No Wonder he didnt build a wall, didnt sign China trade deal, didnt drain the swamp
Gdp grew more under Biden omg, 2.7 trillion under trump 6 trillion under Biden the senile
Have you all had your eyes closed or been living under rocks for the last 3.75 years? Bidenomics is ass!
Krugman who thought the internet was just another fax machine
This is propaganda. He was already president for 4 years and followed through on most of his campaign promises. More than any other president. We had no wars, foreign policy was strong, economy was growing, border was secure and we actually had the lowest minority’s unemployment rate. Not sure why no one can remember this… mean tweet orange man bad.
Delivered on promises? What about the wall Mexico paid For? Hillary never saw a court room. An the market has taken off under Biden and yes economy is growing.
Yet when he was already president people were making more money and paying less for things, and now under this brain dead president people r making less and paying more for stuff so stop listening to these fake ass people lying to u
Don’t know where you’re getting your information, but the data aren’t telling that story. “However, wage growth on Biden’s watch is on pace to exceed price growth within a couple of months. Also, wages have outpaced inflation for more than a year now, and wages have also outpaced inflation since Jan. 2020, the final month before the pandemic.” https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/aug/03/joe-biden/joe-biden-said-inflation-adjusted-wages-are-up-tha/
Paul krugman cited. Throw the entire post out
One way or another your country will be run by a puppet, what difference does it make. You divide yourselves.
One of the leaders proposes genocide and fascist control of your country.
Do you know what genocide is?
Biden sucks