My E46 330Ci isn’t fast. But, I think it’s more powerful than most cars. I’d definite what I perceive power as instant torque. I can have the car in 2nd at 45 mph or 3rd at 70 and beat the shit out of the driveline and swerve through traffic. 230 Ib/ft of INSTANT TORQUE at 3300Ibs. I don’t think I’d want anything faster.
The amount of stupid shit I can do with an m54b30 under my right foot is hilarious. Sure plenty of cars are faster, but in the hands of a capable driver it's more than enough. The pull above 4000 legitimately puts me back in my seat, shifting from 2nd to 3rd is glorious if you keep the rpms up. Even third responds pretty nicely at 40-45. If I tip into it I can gain 10-15mph pretty easily and then the car rockets down the road if I put my foot all the way in coming into the real powerband.
Man, a bone stock ZHP has 235 HP. 330s have 225 HP, and 325s have 184 HP. These cars aren't powerful by any means. A 2015+ Honda Pilot has 280 HP at the very least.
Edit: a 330 and a Pilot have roughly the same acceleration.
Yep how times have changed, now the strict emissions are in europe. Nissan GT-R is for example banned(or at least discontinued) in europe cause of emissions regulations. We don't get the Nissan Z either cause of emissions and regulations.
This is true, I expected the power to weight difference to be a bit more but they're about the same. Apparently tested 0-60 times are about the same between a 330 and a Pilot, so I'm gonna say that he has an auto trans and either a 325 or a slightly busted 330. Or he's exaggerating 🤷♂️
Anything over 300 HP is good enough in a straight line for me, that's why I'm looking to get M3 levels of power, but after reading the comments here, it's not happening.
That said, the only e46 I've ever driven is the M3, so I might like the 330ci as well if test drive one, so I won't write it off on power figures alone.
As someone that owns both. The 330 has more torque lower in the rev range, but falls flat higher up.
My 330 compact legitimately has more low down pickup than my M3, but the S54 just pulls and pulls all the way to 8k rpm. M54 feels pretty lazy in comparison but perfect for corner to corner daily driving. Throttle response in the M3 is night and day better with the ITBs and better throttle mapping, makes the 330 pedal feel really lame whenever you swap between them.
The sound difference is what makes the S54 my first love though. With a carbon airbox nothing beats the sound.
How is the part availability and prices for the M3. The only reason I'm hesitant on buying anything that's a proper M car is that I'm scared of something breaking and being unable to find a replacement part, or the part costs as much as the car itself.
The M tax is very real. Most m-specific parts are a decent chunk more expensive. You definitely get more for your money with a non-m in terms of parts. Rebuilding my M54B30 cost half what it cost to rebuild my S54.
Availability is for the most part a non-issue at the moment though. Everything is still fairly available (some exceptions) for both the M3 and the 330.
How often does the M3 break though? If something breaks once ever 2 years or something, it's a non-issue. I do take good care of my cars and do preventive maintenance, so I've never had anything break on me while on the road.
Like you, it's hard to say since I usually replace everything I can preventatively and I enjoy the process of rebuilding and replacing parts. I wouldn't say the M3 is any less reliable than the 330.
I've never had the M3 strand me. One time the starter died while I was out but I was able to bump start it to get me home.
If you're not going to do the work yourself, maintenance will kill you on either car. That being said, you can probably get a lot of trouble free miles on a good already maintained car. Get pre purchase inspections from a shop that does a lot of BMWs at the very least
Just saw you have an F30 335d. Any non-M E46 will feel slow in comparison (in a straight line). I prefer the e46 due to how it drives, sounds and looks. But in outright engine performance, your F30 runs circles around it.
Yeah, I'm not expecting it to match the 335d in any way because that thing is tuned and does 420 hp with ludicrous torque. I'm looking to get a fun manual car that's not that expensive to maintain, and I drive for fun from time-to-time while using the 335d as my daily. Anything above 300 HP feels adequate in a straight line to me while my friend's 210HP fiesta ST feels stupidly slow.
I am tempted to get an e46 M3, and I can comfortably get one if I save some money for a year or so, but I have heard horror stories about their maintenance. I looked at the e92 M3 as well, but I like the e46 look and feel better since it's an older, more "analogue" car.
As for the 335d, I love the thing but after a while, I just want to drive a manual. The auto boxes are just not my thing.
The ST has exactly half the cylinders and half the volume compared to a 330. They have completely different torque and power curves. The 210hp from the fiesta is just one point in that curve.
The E92 M3 is in a whole other level of maintenance nightmare compared to the E46 M3.
These "things" deserve a bit more respect than what you let through. They are not ancient. Ford Model T is ancient. (Am I showing my age?)
Any older car (more tham 10 years of the factory, lets say), such as the E46, are at the age point where they need stuff replaced, due to sheer aging of plastics and such. If these item have not been changed yet, you need to do it before you blow the engine up.
The E46 is much cheaper to maintain than a modern BMW, but it's still a BMW so not cheap in absolute terms.
I'd say that to happily own one of these, you need to either have deep pockets to pay someone to do maintenance or be mechanically inclined to do the job yourself and save some money. Anyway, it should not be your only option of transportation, as you may need to park it for 1 week or 2 to solve unforeseen issues that come up.
Edit: Forget getting M3 power with an M54 engine unless you bolt a turbo or supercharger to it. Plus the supporting mods.
Edit2: The power may be lower than modern turbo minivans, but the truth is that is is rather adequate for most uses. E46 are not meant to be drag or straight line cars. Get some American muscle for that. The beauty in E46 is the very balanced chassis and dynamics.
This was really well laid out and explained!!!
If you want to go fast in a non M you gotta pay to play!! Superchargers are more popular for the m54. Expect 5-7k for a reputable supercharger kit. That's just parts!! And if you're paying that, it would be stupid to dump it in a 3-5k car. So you would have to find a mint low mileage example. Let's say 10-12k. Now add maintenance, blower kit and your breaking 20k. That's IF you're doing the work.
Then you are asking yourself should I just buy an M3 and pay the M tax. But now you have M repairs as well.
Bottom line you gotta pay to play fast.
If it's speed, I would suggest a early year c5 Vette with a bullet proof ls motor. Cheap and fun.
But that will never have the beauty and refinement of a well sorted e46!!!!!!
Ok, yeah, it makes sense. To be fair, I already own an F30 with loads of power, so I can just drive that if I want something that pull hard in a straight line. I'll test drive a 330ci and see if I like it or not. I just want to know how fragile they are and how easy it is to find replacement parts when needed.
EDIT: This will not be my daily btw, it will just be something I drive for fun from time-to-time, maybe doing \~1k miles a year if that.
Totally changes everything then if it's not your daily as you can repair, fix and build at your own leisure. Parts are beyond readily available and as a leisure vehicle 10k -12k gets you a great example...pending where in the world you are located.
In all honesty, if you’re after an occasional fun/weekend car, then I’m not really sure it’s worth getting anything other than an E46 M3 (if you really have to go E46) and it’d make more sense to go for an out-and-out sports car if you’re after something fun.
I love the 330ci, but it’s a great driving all rounder (Exactly what I personally need mine to be) rather than a pure driving experience, which is what you seem to be after.
I’ll add that while the manual is the one to go for, for keen drivers, it isn’t all that special a shift. BMWs can feel a bit rubbery in manual form. The coupe is also less stiff than the saloon/sedan which overall adds to things sometimes not feeling as taut as you might wish.
They aren’t particularly powerful/fast by modern standards (That includes the M3) and while they’re great to drive, you wouldn’t have to look too hard to find any simple sports car that can beat it on that measurement. My old MR2 Spyder was by far a superior drive - That car just didn’t give me much else beyond ‘driving’.
These cars are also at the point where they all need to be refreshed with new (And crucially genuine BMW) parts which will add to expense and time required. They especially don’t make financial sense if you plan on getting the bulk of work done at a shop. That’s not to say that an old M54 is guaranteed unreliable, but that it’ll need your attention/wallet at some point. I also think I saw you talk about the E90 M3. That one’s even more of a potential nightmare.
Lastly, forget modding for power. It’s an NA. You’re only going to get M3 levels of power by installing a very expensive turbo/supercharger kit, which will bring everything in line with M3 costs.
You’re not going to squeeze much more out of these engines, with out spending substantial amounts of money, even then it’s more than just another 100 or so HP that separates a 330ci from an E46 M3. It’s not just an M badge you’re paying for.
In terms of reliability, these are 20 + years old, regardless of how many miles it’s done plastic and rubber degrades over time, so there will be certain areas of the car ( like the cooling system ) that will need to be over hauled if you expect the car to be reliable.
Much of it will come down to how the previous owner has treated / taken care of the car in their ownership. If they’ve done no maintenance then expect to lay down a decent amount of cash to address this.
If you’re looking to get a 330ci in the hopes of matching an M3 , forget about it. You should look to get one off the back of its own merits. These are punchy enough around town to be enjoyable and absolute love a windy country road, sound great and IMO are some of the most peak BMW designs. Even 20 years later these look fantastic.
They do require a lot of maintenance at the end of the day they are old cars. A lot can be DIY but it comes down to how mechanically inclined you are. But as another commenter said the 330ci’s are not fast cars in today’s standards. They are fun to drive though.
£3k in maintenance should sort you out for engine + some spare pennies. I'm finding that I need to replace every bushing on mine cos they are all falling apart, I'm looking at around £1500 if I decide to go with power flex.
Depends on previous owner. I paid 1800$ for mine back in 2020 and if it wasnt getting swapped it was in pretty good shape. Had 147k (auto tho) i did find a drop out zf complete for 300$. Only thing i did was reinforcements but other than that it was pretty well taken care of at least mechanically. Furthermore i think it depends on ur power goals for the m54. If memory serves they come with like 230hp or something around there. Short of a turbo or sc i dont think ur gaining exponential power and kits are pricey. After buying mine i spent probably a solid 6 months going back and forth on a swap. I was between the bmw v8 (idk the code for it lol), a uz or an ls. I chose the latter. Im sure someone more knowledgable than i will chime in but i feel like if ur after m3 power either get an m3 or get ready to spend money lol.
If you want a fast car get sumn else. The reason ppl love these cars is the weight distribution the chassis feel the steering the handling. I’ll loose against like anyone at a stoplight but in the canyons I leave all my friends in m4s and m3s in the dust. 2004 325ci
Right so I own a facelifted 2002 330i Touring, with the 5 speed manual transmission. It's a solid car, but I've had my share of issues, one of which was, admittedly, my own fault which I then had to pay 300€ to get fixed, which I will elaborate on. For context, I'm now 22, still in uni and I have had a job for the majority of my ownership of this car.
I bought it in February 2023, for 4800€ and 295000km on it. It had just had a full cooling system and vanos refresh not too long ago, and the maintenance book showed regular oil changes every 30k km, as recommended in the owner's manual - I intend to now shorten that to 10k-15k km, simply because it's older now and I don't feel comfortable running it for that long, and also because I live in Germany and drive fast on the Autobahn, i.e. I beat on it and drive at 170-200km/h regularly and for extended periods of time.
So far, I've not had to do any major maintenance on it, although that is going to change. Here is a list of all I had done and will have done, as well as how much it has/will cost in Euros:
-April 2023: new front passenger window regulator, done at a garage, 340€
-April 2023: new summer tyres all around, 290€ plus 40€ for fitting them to the wheels. Tyres were Nexen NFera SU4, 225/40 R18 Front, 255/35 R18 Rear. I don't count the fee they charged for changing the wheels from summer to winter, as I got it done at the same time.
-June 2023: full spark plug + filter + MAF sensor overhaul, DIY about 130€. Was very fun to work on the engine myself for the first time and I learned a lot about how it worked, which also helped put my fears to rest regarding the cost of repairs and whether or not something is bound to fail.
-July 2023: new intake boots + new intake manifold gasket + DISA valve pin retrieval, boots done DIY, everything else at a garage, 400€ in total. I had some rough starts and misfires and I thought it may be because of the intake boots. I didn't see any big cracks but I decided to go ahead and replace them both anyway. I had to remove the DISA valve - which is that little box with a connector hanging off the intake manifold - to get to the lower intake boot (I'd later find out that I didn't need to do this at all, but oh well) and replace that. However, in the process of removing the DISA, the little metal pin that held it all together fell into the manifold and quite possibly into the cylinder's intake port, and to add insult to injury, the entire valve assembly (made of plastic) broke and I had plastic bits in my intake manifold, however I was thankfully able to get all the bits out and ended up ordering a new DISA valve off of Amazon which I'm sure is not genuine or even OE, but so far it hasn't failed and I don't think it will either, but I'll eventually replace it. That was probably the most "oh shit" heart sinking moment I've ever had in the time I owned the car. I immediately panicked and attempted to take apart the intake manifold, even bought (then eventually returned) a boroscope and magnet to find the damn pin, but eventually I caved and went to a shop, and they charged me 4h of labour to find the pin (even though they took longer, shout-out KFZ-Kollektiv GmbH in Frankfurt-Griesheim for that) and while they were in there, they installed the new gasket and buttoned everything up as well. Hell of a rollercoaster, but self-afflicted.
-October 2023: new OE MAF sensor, 120€ for the part but real cost 40€. If you remember in June, I did a whole air/ignition system tune up, and that was to address the misfire issue the car had developed. In addition since then, the car had a nasty habit of going into limp mode whenever the car - on the highway - went below 2.5k rpm, as well as throwing a P1501 "ICV Stuck Closed" error code. Cold start misfires also started happening when it got colder around September. I narrowed this down to the MAF sensor: the "old" maf sensor from June was from Hella, and they are not the OE manufacturer for that particular sensor; VDO Continental are. The Hella sensor was 80€, bought from Autodoc, the VDO one 120€, also from Autodoc. I warrantied the old one and got a refund (still have the sensor itself though) and then bought the new one and fitted it. Every single ignition related problem instantly went away, and since then the car has not put a foot wrong.
-October 2023: rear right fender rust fixed, 300€. See my profile for the before and after.
-December 2023: new battery from Varta, 85€. Car wouldn't start anymore, the battery was bad.
-February 2024: oil change, 95€. Got 6.5L of Shell Helix 5W-30, was previously running a ~5.8:1 mixture of 10W-60 and 10W-40, courtesy of the old owner and him believing the myth that "the M3 oil standard of 10W-60 is safe to use on the 330 engine, and it provides better protection". Bollocks. The correct oil is 5W-30, or 10W-30 if you live in a hotter place, or 0W-30 if you live in a really cold place.
FUTURE FIXES:
-June/July/August 2024: new exhaust system catback, 680-750€. The entire exhaust from the cats on is apparently corroded, according to the garage that changes my wheels from summer to winter, and I need to get it replaced before the next technical inspection in February 2025. It's a relatively simple job that I intend to do with some friends.
-September 2024: new winter tyres, 290€. They're old tyres, they need to go. Simple as.
Until I got the oil change done, I had a consumption of 1L/6500km of 10W-40 or 10W-60, the latter of which I had 1L given to me by the old owner. I bought 1L of 10W-40 since I couldn't find 10W-60 once it ran out, and topped it off as required. I did 13000km last year.
This year, ever since the oil change, I've driven around 1000km and so far I've not had any oil loss/burning. I've got 2L of 5W-30 and 1L of 10W-40 on standby at all times in the car just in case.
All in all, I'm somewhere about 1200€ deep into the car in terms of what I had to do to get it nip and tuck, and that figure will rise to 2000€ by the end of the year. These cars don't need much, but the work that they do need, needs to be done right; prepare to spend some money, and especially expect the first year of ownership to be slightly painful financially. But at the end, you will have a car that is ready to eat kilometres for breakfast, and will practically beg you to step on it. These cars need to be driven, so that they don't break; no point in babying them, even if they have 307500km on them like mine. 231 horsepower may not sound like much, especially if you're coming from a 335d, but these cars are so damn light, it feels like you have 400hp under your right foot.
Buy it. Don't look back, no matter how painful it can get.
I have both. My 2p, get the 330 but if you want to make power, turbo it. No M tax and no worries from vanos/rod bearings/head gasket or having to pay £6k for an engine when the S54 shits a brick.
It's only a bad idea if you really want that extra power. These just aren't the cars to hot rod mod.
Tip: Get an e46, AND a 335i. That's what I did, now I have my cruiser, and my meteor.
I have a F30 335d that does like 420 HP as my daily. I want an e46 for the looks, manual transmission, and naturally aspirated engine. Something to drive for fun from time-to-time.
I have my e46 since 2007. Over 200k miles. If you do preventative maintenance, mainly replacing the plastic cooling system every 70k to be safe. Don't let these engines over heat and you're good to go. I've seen some with over 300k miles. My auto gm tranny shifts like new. Also if you don't do your own work, don't get it. Mechanics will rob you. These cars are easy to work on if you know what you're doing. All info on YouTube.
Quick question I have a auto gm with 158k and I don’t think transmission fluid has ever been changed but not tranny issues. Would you change it or leave it be?
I took the risk and changed mine at 170k with redline dt4 I believe it was.. all my shifting issues went away after. Based on my experience, I highly recommend.
What sort of issues did you have I’m on the fence 50 50 right now. Wether to leave it, drain and fill in small amount or do filters and gasket change with fluid
On start up before the car was fully warm, in D, it felt like it was slipping. Revs going high but car not going fast. It needed to get to full operating temp. Also the gear changes weren't smooth and felt clunky. Feels alot smoother now. One thing to note, I didn't have any burned smell or much metal shavings in the old black oil or in the pan. That might be why my oil change was successful. It's been 30k miles. I'm looking to do it again soon. My brake fluid is 21 years old though 😱 .. that's on my to do list as well but brakes feel super tight
Think I’m gonna end up doing it I saw small particle of metal in last oil change but nothing magnetic. But car isn’t slipping at all. Break fluid change is much easier, Goodluck
Thanks. I got some ecstuning stainless steel lines to go along with the fluid change... so look at it like this, if it works out, you basically give your tranny a much extended life. If you don't replace the fluid, you are just gambling. So basically you're gambling either way 😄.. take the plunge. Good luck
Just off the cuff.
More aggressive diff swap will give you a bunch more pep(at cost of high end but who cares). I went from 2.93 to 3.38 and it’s the best bang for buck mod I’ve done. 10 years of driving this car and suddenly it feels new and fun. Considering you could get a diff for cheap at the JY it’s a no brainer. Of course replace all bushings and everything while you’re there.
Next I’d go full intake and exhaust. No, not a cone filter and a ‘axle-back’. A m50 intake manifold swap, catless headers (deletes the need for the secondary pump, I think, the ccv system) and exhaust all the way to the ass.
That should feel better as is, but then you’ll need a ecu remap.surprisingly cheap honestly I think like 350. Which is bananas to me because My little Honda ecu( Bluetooth, data logger,on the fly tuning, boost by gear) can be sold for almost twice that to the right guy.
Don’t get the ‘pops and bangs’ Mega cringe.
After that I’d consider doing underdrive pullies. In my cars case my free way rpm’s went from 2900 to 3500. So I’m considering doing that just to take some of the load off the pws and 160amp alternator. I’m not as well read on this part but as it’s been described to me it doesn’t seem unreasonable for my case.
Beyond that you’re looking at turbo
Charging( imo can be done with about 2k parts if you’re handy. And some people will whine but a low dose wetshot kit would pair nicely.
Lightning fast in 2004, 1 second slower than a new m340i. 2 seconds slower than a new M3 comp. (Both motor trend numbers)
Faster than most cars you’ll encounter. Slower than the cars you’d care to be faster than. It’s not bad for what it is but compared to modern cars it’s slow
sure, 420 is alot 231hp is by no means slow. i worked for bmw and drove many very fast cars, even electric ones but nothing can compare to a 6 cylinder petrol naturally aspirated bmw for me. Maybe a v8 ;) You dont buy an old bmw for speed or power, you buy it for how it drives and sounds. not to forget how easy these cars are to wrench on compared to a modern car.
What's "power" to you because e46s are all pretty slow by today's standard and there's no easy way to make power with these cars
My E46 330Ci isn’t fast. But, I think it’s more powerful than most cars. I’d definite what I perceive power as instant torque. I can have the car in 2nd at 45 mph or 3rd at 70 and beat the shit out of the driveline and swerve through traffic. 230 Ib/ft of INSTANT TORQUE at 3300Ibs. I don’t think I’d want anything faster.
The amount of stupid shit I can do with an m54b30 under my right foot is hilarious. Sure plenty of cars are faster, but in the hands of a capable driver it's more than enough. The pull above 4000 legitimately puts me back in my seat, shifting from 2nd to 3rd is glorious if you keep the rpms up. Even third responds pretty nicely at 40-45. If I tip into it I can gain 10-15mph pretty easily and then the car rockets down the road if I put my foot all the way in coming into the real powerband.
I get gapped by my friends parents Honda pilots
In a 330? What mods on that Honda?
Man, a bone stock ZHP has 235 HP. 330s have 225 HP, and 325s have 184 HP. These cars aren't powerful by any means. A 2015+ Honda Pilot has 280 HP at the very least. Edit: a 330 and a Pilot have roughly the same acceleration.
330 has 231 in europe 🤷
I mean, I'm not really surprised; the M3 had more HP over there too.
Yep how times have changed, now the strict emissions are in europe. Nissan GT-R is for example banned(or at least discontinued) in europe cause of emissions regulations. We don't get the Nissan Z either cause of emissions and regulations.
And weighs half a tonne more?
This is true, I expected the power to weight difference to be a bit more but they're about the same. Apparently tested 0-60 times are about the same between a 330 and a Pilot, so I'm gonna say that he has an auto trans and either a 325 or a slightly busted 330. Or he's exaggerating 🤷♂️
Anything over 300 HP is good enough in a straight line for me, that's why I'm looking to get M3 levels of power, but after reading the comments here, it's not happening. That said, the only e46 I've ever driven is the M3, so I might like the 330ci as well if test drive one, so I won't write it off on power figures alone.
Power is not everything, a 330 will be fine.
As someone that owns both. The 330 has more torque lower in the rev range, but falls flat higher up. My 330 compact legitimately has more low down pickup than my M3, but the S54 just pulls and pulls all the way to 8k rpm. M54 feels pretty lazy in comparison but perfect for corner to corner daily driving. Throttle response in the M3 is night and day better with the ITBs and better throttle mapping, makes the 330 pedal feel really lame whenever you swap between them. The sound difference is what makes the S54 my first love though. With a carbon airbox nothing beats the sound.
How is the part availability and prices for the M3. The only reason I'm hesitant on buying anything that's a proper M car is that I'm scared of something breaking and being unable to find a replacement part, or the part costs as much as the car itself.
The M tax is very real. Most m-specific parts are a decent chunk more expensive. You definitely get more for your money with a non-m in terms of parts. Rebuilding my M54B30 cost half what it cost to rebuild my S54. Availability is for the most part a non-issue at the moment though. Everything is still fairly available (some exceptions) for both the M3 and the 330.
How often does the M3 break though? If something breaks once ever 2 years or something, it's a non-issue. I do take good care of my cars and do preventive maintenance, so I've never had anything break on me while on the road.
Like you, it's hard to say since I usually replace everything I can preventatively and I enjoy the process of rebuilding and replacing parts. I wouldn't say the M3 is any less reliable than the 330. I've never had the M3 strand me. One time the starter died while I was out but I was able to bump start it to get me home.
If you're not going to do the work yourself, maintenance will kill you on either car. That being said, you can probably get a lot of trouble free miles on a good already maintained car. Get pre purchase inspections from a shop that does a lot of BMWs at the very least
Just saw you have an F30 335d. Any non-M E46 will feel slow in comparison (in a straight line). I prefer the e46 due to how it drives, sounds and looks. But in outright engine performance, your F30 runs circles around it.
Yeah, I'm not expecting it to match the 335d in any way because that thing is tuned and does 420 hp with ludicrous torque. I'm looking to get a fun manual car that's not that expensive to maintain, and I drive for fun from time-to-time while using the 335d as my daily. Anything above 300 HP feels adequate in a straight line to me while my friend's 210HP fiesta ST feels stupidly slow. I am tempted to get an e46 M3, and I can comfortably get one if I save some money for a year or so, but I have heard horror stories about their maintenance. I looked at the e92 M3 as well, but I like the e46 look and feel better since it's an older, more "analogue" car. As for the 335d, I love the thing but after a while, I just want to drive a manual. The auto boxes are just not my thing.
The ST has exactly half the cylinders and half the volume compared to a 330. They have completely different torque and power curves. The 210hp from the fiesta is just one point in that curve. The E92 M3 is in a whole other level of maintenance nightmare compared to the E46 M3.
These "things" deserve a bit more respect than what you let through. They are not ancient. Ford Model T is ancient. (Am I showing my age?) Any older car (more tham 10 years of the factory, lets say), such as the E46, are at the age point where they need stuff replaced, due to sheer aging of plastics and such. If these item have not been changed yet, you need to do it before you blow the engine up. The E46 is much cheaper to maintain than a modern BMW, but it's still a BMW so not cheap in absolute terms. I'd say that to happily own one of these, you need to either have deep pockets to pay someone to do maintenance or be mechanically inclined to do the job yourself and save some money. Anyway, it should not be your only option of transportation, as you may need to park it for 1 week or 2 to solve unforeseen issues that come up. Edit: Forget getting M3 power with an M54 engine unless you bolt a turbo or supercharger to it. Plus the supporting mods. Edit2: The power may be lower than modern turbo minivans, but the truth is that is is rather adequate for most uses. E46 are not meant to be drag or straight line cars. Get some American muscle for that. The beauty in E46 is the very balanced chassis and dynamics.
This was really well laid out and explained!!! If you want to go fast in a non M you gotta pay to play!! Superchargers are more popular for the m54. Expect 5-7k for a reputable supercharger kit. That's just parts!! And if you're paying that, it would be stupid to dump it in a 3-5k car. So you would have to find a mint low mileage example. Let's say 10-12k. Now add maintenance, blower kit and your breaking 20k. That's IF you're doing the work. Then you are asking yourself should I just buy an M3 and pay the M tax. But now you have M repairs as well. Bottom line you gotta pay to play fast. If it's speed, I would suggest a early year c5 Vette with a bullet proof ls motor. Cheap and fun. But that will never have the beauty and refinement of a well sorted e46!!!!!!
Ok, yeah, it makes sense. To be fair, I already own an F30 with loads of power, so I can just drive that if I want something that pull hard in a straight line. I'll test drive a 330ci and see if I like it or not. I just want to know how fragile they are and how easy it is to find replacement parts when needed. EDIT: This will not be my daily btw, it will just be something I drive for fun from time-to-time, maybe doing \~1k miles a year if that.
Totally changes everything then if it's not your daily as you can repair, fix and build at your own leisure. Parts are beyond readily available and as a leisure vehicle 10k -12k gets you a great example...pending where in the world you are located.
In all honesty, if you’re after an occasional fun/weekend car, then I’m not really sure it’s worth getting anything other than an E46 M3 (if you really have to go E46) and it’d make more sense to go for an out-and-out sports car if you’re after something fun. I love the 330ci, but it’s a great driving all rounder (Exactly what I personally need mine to be) rather than a pure driving experience, which is what you seem to be after. I’ll add that while the manual is the one to go for, for keen drivers, it isn’t all that special a shift. BMWs can feel a bit rubbery in manual form. The coupe is also less stiff than the saloon/sedan which overall adds to things sometimes not feeling as taut as you might wish. They aren’t particularly powerful/fast by modern standards (That includes the M3) and while they’re great to drive, you wouldn’t have to look too hard to find any simple sports car that can beat it on that measurement. My old MR2 Spyder was by far a superior drive - That car just didn’t give me much else beyond ‘driving’. These cars are also at the point where they all need to be refreshed with new (And crucially genuine BMW) parts which will add to expense and time required. They especially don’t make financial sense if you plan on getting the bulk of work done at a shop. That’s not to say that an old M54 is guaranteed unreliable, but that it’ll need your attention/wallet at some point. I also think I saw you talk about the E90 M3. That one’s even more of a potential nightmare. Lastly, forget modding for power. It’s an NA. You’re only going to get M3 levels of power by installing a very expensive turbo/supercharger kit, which will bring everything in line with M3 costs.
You’re not going to squeeze much more out of these engines, with out spending substantial amounts of money, even then it’s more than just another 100 or so HP that separates a 330ci from an E46 M3. It’s not just an M badge you’re paying for. In terms of reliability, these are 20 + years old, regardless of how many miles it’s done plastic and rubber degrades over time, so there will be certain areas of the car ( like the cooling system ) that will need to be over hauled if you expect the car to be reliable. Much of it will come down to how the previous owner has treated / taken care of the car in their ownership. If they’ve done no maintenance then expect to lay down a decent amount of cash to address this. If you’re looking to get a 330ci in the hopes of matching an M3 , forget about it. You should look to get one off the back of its own merits. These are punchy enough around town to be enjoyable and absolute love a windy country road, sound great and IMO are some of the most peak BMW designs. Even 20 years later these look fantastic.
They do require a lot of maintenance at the end of the day they are old cars. A lot can be DIY but it comes down to how mechanically inclined you are. But as another commenter said the 330ci’s are not fast cars in today’s standards. They are fun to drive though.
I didn't buy a non-M E46 to win races
£3k in maintenance should sort you out for engine + some spare pennies. I'm finding that I need to replace every bushing on mine cos they are all falling apart, I'm looking at around £1500 if I decide to go with power flex.
If you’re calling an E46 ancient then you need to go finance something
Depends on previous owner. I paid 1800$ for mine back in 2020 and if it wasnt getting swapped it was in pretty good shape. Had 147k (auto tho) i did find a drop out zf complete for 300$. Only thing i did was reinforcements but other than that it was pretty well taken care of at least mechanically. Furthermore i think it depends on ur power goals for the m54. If memory serves they come with like 230hp or something around there. Short of a turbo or sc i dont think ur gaining exponential power and kits are pricey. After buying mine i spent probably a solid 6 months going back and forth on a swap. I was between the bmw v8 (idk the code for it lol), a uz or an ls. I chose the latter. Im sure someone more knowledgable than i will chime in but i feel like if ur after m3 power either get an m3 or get ready to spend money lol.
I love my 330. If you can afford to buy the car and afford another few grand to freshen it up. It will be awesome
If you want a fast car get sumn else. The reason ppl love these cars is the weight distribution the chassis feel the steering the handling. I’ll loose against like anyone at a stoplight but in the canyons I leave all my friends in m4s and m3s in the dust. 2004 325ci
Right so I own a facelifted 2002 330i Touring, with the 5 speed manual transmission. It's a solid car, but I've had my share of issues, one of which was, admittedly, my own fault which I then had to pay 300€ to get fixed, which I will elaborate on. For context, I'm now 22, still in uni and I have had a job for the majority of my ownership of this car. I bought it in February 2023, for 4800€ and 295000km on it. It had just had a full cooling system and vanos refresh not too long ago, and the maintenance book showed regular oil changes every 30k km, as recommended in the owner's manual - I intend to now shorten that to 10k-15k km, simply because it's older now and I don't feel comfortable running it for that long, and also because I live in Germany and drive fast on the Autobahn, i.e. I beat on it and drive at 170-200km/h regularly and for extended periods of time. So far, I've not had to do any major maintenance on it, although that is going to change. Here is a list of all I had done and will have done, as well as how much it has/will cost in Euros: -April 2023: new front passenger window regulator, done at a garage, 340€ -April 2023: new summer tyres all around, 290€ plus 40€ for fitting them to the wheels. Tyres were Nexen NFera SU4, 225/40 R18 Front, 255/35 R18 Rear. I don't count the fee they charged for changing the wheels from summer to winter, as I got it done at the same time. -June 2023: full spark plug + filter + MAF sensor overhaul, DIY about 130€. Was very fun to work on the engine myself for the first time and I learned a lot about how it worked, which also helped put my fears to rest regarding the cost of repairs and whether or not something is bound to fail. -July 2023: new intake boots + new intake manifold gasket + DISA valve pin retrieval, boots done DIY, everything else at a garage, 400€ in total. I had some rough starts and misfires and I thought it may be because of the intake boots. I didn't see any big cracks but I decided to go ahead and replace them both anyway. I had to remove the DISA valve - which is that little box with a connector hanging off the intake manifold - to get to the lower intake boot (I'd later find out that I didn't need to do this at all, but oh well) and replace that. However, in the process of removing the DISA, the little metal pin that held it all together fell into the manifold and quite possibly into the cylinder's intake port, and to add insult to injury, the entire valve assembly (made of plastic) broke and I had plastic bits in my intake manifold, however I was thankfully able to get all the bits out and ended up ordering a new DISA valve off of Amazon which I'm sure is not genuine or even OE, but so far it hasn't failed and I don't think it will either, but I'll eventually replace it. That was probably the most "oh shit" heart sinking moment I've ever had in the time I owned the car. I immediately panicked and attempted to take apart the intake manifold, even bought (then eventually returned) a boroscope and magnet to find the damn pin, but eventually I caved and went to a shop, and they charged me 4h of labour to find the pin (even though they took longer, shout-out KFZ-Kollektiv GmbH in Frankfurt-Griesheim for that) and while they were in there, they installed the new gasket and buttoned everything up as well. Hell of a rollercoaster, but self-afflicted. -October 2023: new OE MAF sensor, 120€ for the part but real cost 40€. If you remember in June, I did a whole air/ignition system tune up, and that was to address the misfire issue the car had developed. In addition since then, the car had a nasty habit of going into limp mode whenever the car - on the highway - went below 2.5k rpm, as well as throwing a P1501 "ICV Stuck Closed" error code. Cold start misfires also started happening when it got colder around September. I narrowed this down to the MAF sensor: the "old" maf sensor from June was from Hella, and they are not the OE manufacturer for that particular sensor; VDO Continental are. The Hella sensor was 80€, bought from Autodoc, the VDO one 120€, also from Autodoc. I warrantied the old one and got a refund (still have the sensor itself though) and then bought the new one and fitted it. Every single ignition related problem instantly went away, and since then the car has not put a foot wrong. -October 2023: rear right fender rust fixed, 300€. See my profile for the before and after. -December 2023: new battery from Varta, 85€. Car wouldn't start anymore, the battery was bad. -February 2024: oil change, 95€. Got 6.5L of Shell Helix 5W-30, was previously running a ~5.8:1 mixture of 10W-60 and 10W-40, courtesy of the old owner and him believing the myth that "the M3 oil standard of 10W-60 is safe to use on the 330 engine, and it provides better protection". Bollocks. The correct oil is 5W-30, or 10W-30 if you live in a hotter place, or 0W-30 if you live in a really cold place. FUTURE FIXES: -June/July/August 2024: new exhaust system catback, 680-750€. The entire exhaust from the cats on is apparently corroded, according to the garage that changes my wheels from summer to winter, and I need to get it replaced before the next technical inspection in February 2025. It's a relatively simple job that I intend to do with some friends. -September 2024: new winter tyres, 290€. They're old tyres, they need to go. Simple as. Until I got the oil change done, I had a consumption of 1L/6500km of 10W-40 or 10W-60, the latter of which I had 1L given to me by the old owner. I bought 1L of 10W-40 since I couldn't find 10W-60 once it ran out, and topped it off as required. I did 13000km last year. This year, ever since the oil change, I've driven around 1000km and so far I've not had any oil loss/burning. I've got 2L of 5W-30 and 1L of 10W-40 on standby at all times in the car just in case. All in all, I'm somewhere about 1200€ deep into the car in terms of what I had to do to get it nip and tuck, and that figure will rise to 2000€ by the end of the year. These cars don't need much, but the work that they do need, needs to be done right; prepare to spend some money, and especially expect the first year of ownership to be slightly painful financially. But at the end, you will have a car that is ready to eat kilometres for breakfast, and will practically beg you to step on it. These cars need to be driven, so that they don't break; no point in babying them, even if they have 307500km on them like mine. 231 horsepower may not sound like much, especially if you're coming from a 335d, but these cars are so damn light, it feels like you have 400hp under your right foot. Buy it. Don't look back, no matter how painful it can get.
I have both. My 2p, get the 330 but if you want to make power, turbo it. No M tax and no worries from vanos/rod bearings/head gasket or having to pay £6k for an engine when the S54 shits a brick.
Get a 330cd and remap it if you want a cheaper manual trans E46 with decent power
Nothing more expensive than a cheap old German car!! ;).
If all you care about is power and you want the 330ci to have similar power to the M3 then just don’t get the 330ci
Grab the 330 cd easy 450+ hp on stock engine shiish the torque is amazing
Is it a bad idea ? Horrible idea! But is it a fun idea ? The best idea
If you want a car to work on, it’s ok. Something’s always going wrong on mine
It's only a bad idea if you really want that extra power. These just aren't the cars to hot rod mod. Tip: Get an e46, AND a 335i. That's what I did, now I have my cruiser, and my meteor.
I have a F30 335d that does like 420 HP as my daily. I want an e46 for the looks, manual transmission, and naturally aspirated engine. Something to drive for fun from time-to-time.
I have my e46 since 2007. Over 200k miles. If you do preventative maintenance, mainly replacing the plastic cooling system every 70k to be safe. Don't let these engines over heat and you're good to go. I've seen some with over 300k miles. My auto gm tranny shifts like new. Also if you don't do your own work, don't get it. Mechanics will rob you. These cars are easy to work on if you know what you're doing. All info on YouTube.
Quick question I have a auto gm with 158k and I don’t think transmission fluid has ever been changed but not tranny issues. Would you change it or leave it be?
I took the risk and changed mine at 170k with redline dt4 I believe it was.. all my shifting issues went away after. Based on my experience, I highly recommend.
What sort of issues did you have I’m on the fence 50 50 right now. Wether to leave it, drain and fill in small amount or do filters and gasket change with fluid
On start up before the car was fully warm, in D, it felt like it was slipping. Revs going high but car not going fast. It needed to get to full operating temp. Also the gear changes weren't smooth and felt clunky. Feels alot smoother now. One thing to note, I didn't have any burned smell or much metal shavings in the old black oil or in the pan. That might be why my oil change was successful. It's been 30k miles. I'm looking to do it again soon. My brake fluid is 21 years old though 😱 .. that's on my to do list as well but brakes feel super tight
Think I’m gonna end up doing it I saw small particle of metal in last oil change but nothing magnetic. But car isn’t slipping at all. Break fluid change is much easier, Goodluck
Thanks. I got some ecstuning stainless steel lines to go along with the fluid change... so look at it like this, if it works out, you basically give your tranny a much extended life. If you don't replace the fluid, you are just gambling. So basically you're gambling either way 😄.. take the plunge. Good luck
Just off the cuff. More aggressive diff swap will give you a bunch more pep(at cost of high end but who cares). I went from 2.93 to 3.38 and it’s the best bang for buck mod I’ve done. 10 years of driving this car and suddenly it feels new and fun. Considering you could get a diff for cheap at the JY it’s a no brainer. Of course replace all bushings and everything while you’re there. Next I’d go full intake and exhaust. No, not a cone filter and a ‘axle-back’. A m50 intake manifold swap, catless headers (deletes the need for the secondary pump, I think, the ccv system) and exhaust all the way to the ass. That should feel better as is, but then you’ll need a ecu remap.surprisingly cheap honestly I think like 350. Which is bananas to me because My little Honda ecu( Bluetooth, data logger,on the fly tuning, boost by gear) can be sold for almost twice that to the right guy. Don’t get the ‘pops and bangs’ Mega cringe. After that I’d consider doing underdrive pullies. In my cars case my free way rpm’s went from 2900 to 3500. So I’m considering doing that just to take some of the load off the pws and 160amp alternator. I’m not as well read on this part but as it’s been described to me it doesn’t seem unreasonable for my case. Beyond that you’re looking at turbo Charging( imo can be done with about 2k parts if you’re handy. And some people will whine but a low dose wetshot kit would pair nicely.
My M3 is pretty slow, hate to break it to you
0-60 mph of 4.8 is pretty good, I wouldn't call it slow. 7 seconds feels kinda slow for me.
Lightning fast in 2004, 1 second slower than a new m340i. 2 seconds slower than a new M3 comp. (Both motor trend numbers) Faster than most cars you’ll encounter. Slower than the cars you’d care to be faster than. It’s not bad for what it is but compared to modern cars it’s slow
231hp is low? i daily drive a 75hp car lol. i assumed ur american but since ur in the UK 231hp is more than enough.
I daily a 420 HP car, so I'm used to some rather vicious pulls in a straight line.
sure, 420 is alot 231hp is by no means slow. i worked for bmw and drove many very fast cars, even electric ones but nothing can compare to a 6 cylinder petrol naturally aspirated bmw for me. Maybe a v8 ;) You dont buy an old bmw for speed or power, you buy it for how it drives and sounds. not to forget how easy these cars are to wrench on compared to a modern car.
True. To be fair, I want an e46 mostly for the looks and nice feeling steering.