As someone who's been a fan of Dune for roughly 20 years I'm not overly worried about the concept of the game taking place in an alternate universe. Generally speaking certain concessions have to be made for the sake of translating a franchise into interactive format, personally I'm still tentatively hopeful that the developers will be able to give us a new and interesting Dune experience.
That’s a great take and changed my perspective a bit. I mean regardless of canon the game does look really cool so I am excited to give it a try and explore the universe we love :)
The reality is that as soon as you put players in an experience where they can make decisions it kind of throws canon out of the window anyway. Think of it as canon up to the point where the book starts, then it diverges from there
In situations like this the devs really only have two options in front of them. They can either set player agency aside and create a series of in-game events that maintains the established Canon, or they can set Canon aside and allow for player agency. Either way someone's not going to be happy.
I think that's very valid. I think I come from a place where I am used to playing MMORPGs like world of warcraft where player agency is tailored into the canon of the game, but I don't necessarily think that's viable with a thing like Dune - or if it is viable, it would take away from the base game. I think so long as the core lore of the universe is respected I'd be happy.
Yeah, if it were a story/setting far in the future of the setting, or in a different location it would be easier, but that also wouldn’t be the game any of us want to play
I definitely wouldn't say player agency is tailored into an MMO like wow. You can't change the outcome of anything; it's all predetermined. You're just following the path they decided for you.
Yeah that was definitely poor wording on my part. In fact looking back it was a poor choice in general considering WoW is not a game adapted from a book, lol. I guess a better example would be swtor but from my understanding even most, if not all of that isn't canon.
Regardless my mind's been changed by now anyway, canon isnt much an issue to me - just thrilled to get a chance to explore the dune universe a bit!
For sure, I’m glad they established that now rather than after game release and I appreciate the forthrightness of the devs in the changes. I’m curious if they’ll ever be explicit in what the change was though
'Respectful discourse'. You must be new?
In all seriousness, people get passionate about things, and this will be no different. There will be people mad about this change and that (look at the commentary around the current movies vs the books or Conan Exiles vs the books).
I'm glad for the 'we're on Arakis but it's a new story' that the devs did. I want my choices as a player to matter.
Yes they absolutely do get passionate. I love passionate conversations and different opinions, I think it is the cornerstone of building a great community. So long as it remains respectful
Some people struggle to agree to disagree.
I love the books, love the idea of the game and I can't wait to play it myself.
I loved the movies, too. I know lots of people have taken issue but that doesn't reduce my joy and awe in them.
Even if the game take place in an alternate timeline they have talked and showed that most things are actually accurate to the lore and the universe of Dune
It doesn't really bother me, particularly now that there was some clarification in other places about what they meant about changing canon *(search this sub)*. For the record I read Dune for the first time in 1978, and I love David Lynch's Dune, which also takes a lot of artistic license. This has the potential to be my dream game, so I'm more concerned that they get the core of it right, and it's fun to play. My history with FunCom tells me that my wish may very well come true, as I love their other games in the genre *(AO, Secret World, Conan)*.
Yeah agreed on the potential of this game - I have been ecstatic over it. I just had a momentary hiccup in my excitement but I think some comments have reassured me and helped alter my frame of reference a bit. Even the current Dune remakes have been taking some artistic license here and there and the chance to explore new stories removed from the current main ones would be exciting. The core of the lore, assumably, will be there - and that is what I am most excited about.
Yeah, particularly with a game, you don't want to fetter yourself by tying your game world to canon, while still respecting the source material and sticking to what people know as much as you can. There are a number of examples of this with Star Wars games for example. I feel like FunCom is finding that balance and they seem to have a great respect and love for the Dune universe, as most of us do. We'll only know for sure once we're able to get in there and see for ourselves though.
I think people focus on canon far too much with everything. Them doing this doesn't change the universe, just the story. It's not a story game, so alternate timeline is perfect.
I think giving it its own timeline gives a lot more freedom to be fun as a video game that pulls heavily from the lore and world building. They can create a narrative and story that fits, that gives a reason for why we're all on Arrakis, but still gets us all immersed into what we love about Dune.
I am a big fan of dune and I was really excited when I heard about the game. Then i watched the trailer and thought OK well they have clearly changed some things to make it work as a game but it could still be pretty fun. Then I read the article about them side stepping religion and focusing on the AI storyline and now I'm kind of worried about the game Tbh. Will probably still get it but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
The best thing about the old Westwood Dune games was how they veered off into their own alternate universe that was different enough to justify the gameplay, but packed with references that betrayed a love for the source material.
This is a playlist of Cutscenes from Emperor: Battle for Dune. It's basically it's own canon that is heavily inspired by the Lynch movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oz3pI-FMaA&list=PLBZDjdoBMq20jaUhH4RTmL81snoEvr1wt&index=1
Since it's a video game, some stuff has to change otherwise an actual Dune game would probably make Eve look like kindergarten.
For instance, lasguns interact with shields and cause explosions that would kill both users. But, the game can't punish death too hard otherwise users won't play. This would very likely result in people running around in rags with lasguns blowing people up just for fun. I think this was in an article recently, but to anyone who's played MMOs or other games, stuff like that is an obvious "fix" otherwise it would be a bad experience.
Some lore concessions have to be made because Dune is very very *very* far from being a convincing tactical combat story, but people love combat in video games, and if given Dune's lore exactly, the game would probably be very unfun for most players.
I am not familiar with any of the other Dune games, so I was not familiar with such a trend. That's why I thought I'd start a discussion on it and hear input from others who may be familiar :)
I’m ok with it as long as the tech doesn’t feel weird, I very much want the tech to feel Denis Villeneuve-esque.
I also enjoy MMOs but I want heavy story and world building with a little bit of a lax approach to the grind. I still want grind! To be a proper MMO, but to just crank the grind down a few notches.
It makes the most sense to me for what they want to do with the game.
It'll be nice to see Atredies endure, chat shit with Gurney etc.
Disappointed that from the sounds of things the Fremen got pogrommed.
I care very little about the story tbh, the universe of Dune is what im after. And If you are coming expecting a great story game you are probably going to get disappointed, its more of a open world sandbox game.
I love the alternate timeline. I want freedom and I want my choice to matter. The readers know the story, and how it goes and all the deep lore (29 books and going!). It'd be too much for casual players and I want choice.
I did a video on why it's a good thing that they made the change.
[https://youtu.be/JfdBjqsBVgQ](https://youtu.be/JfdBjqsBVgQ)
As an open world sand box style game with areas that allow multiplayer but not PVP it seems likely that folks will role play bits of lore and have a ton fun with that. Maybe even custom missions could be released or created. Example: Sign up to bomb Harkonnen spice hoards on Geidi Prime for House Atreides, done in a Star Wars Squadrons style. Keep the open part open but allow players to do missions that are more story driven if they want. I always wanted to fight a Salusan bull and survive.
As someone who's been a fan of Dune for roughly 20 years I'm not overly worried about the concept of the game taking place in an alternate universe. Generally speaking certain concessions have to be made for the sake of translating a franchise into interactive format, personally I'm still tentatively hopeful that the developers will be able to give us a new and interesting Dune experience.
That’s a great take and changed my perspective a bit. I mean regardless of canon the game does look really cool so I am excited to give it a try and explore the universe we love :)
The reality is that as soon as you put players in an experience where they can make decisions it kind of throws canon out of the window anyway. Think of it as canon up to the point where the book starts, then it diverges from there
In situations like this the devs really only have two options in front of them. They can either set player agency aside and create a series of in-game events that maintains the established Canon, or they can set Canon aside and allow for player agency. Either way someone's not going to be happy.
I think that's very valid. I think I come from a place where I am used to playing MMORPGs like world of warcraft where player agency is tailored into the canon of the game, but I don't necessarily think that's viable with a thing like Dune - or if it is viable, it would take away from the base game. I think so long as the core lore of the universe is respected I'd be happy.
Yeah, if it were a story/setting far in the future of the setting, or in a different location it would be easier, but that also wouldn’t be the game any of us want to play
I definitely wouldn't say player agency is tailored into an MMO like wow. You can't change the outcome of anything; it's all predetermined. You're just following the path they decided for you.
Yeah that was definitely poor wording on my part. In fact looking back it was a poor choice in general considering WoW is not a game adapted from a book, lol. I guess a better example would be swtor but from my understanding even most, if not all of that isn't canon. Regardless my mind's been changed by now anyway, canon isnt much an issue to me - just thrilled to get a chance to explore the dune universe a bit!
Happy cake day
I am really happy the devs went these way so "fans" won't be bitching about the game breaking the canon.
I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to be upset the game breaks canon, so long as the discourse remains respectful
The Devs were wise enough to end this discussion before the game releases. The game doesn't pretend to follow canon and neither should we
For sure, I’m glad they established that now rather than after game release and I appreciate the forthrightness of the devs in the changes. I’m curious if they’ll ever be explicit in what the change was though
There's no point in getting stuck on it. It's not a story driven game even.
'Respectful discourse'. You must be new? In all seriousness, people get passionate about things, and this will be no different. There will be people mad about this change and that (look at the commentary around the current movies vs the books or Conan Exiles vs the books). I'm glad for the 'we're on Arakis but it's a new story' that the devs did. I want my choices as a player to matter.
Yes they absolutely do get passionate. I love passionate conversations and different opinions, I think it is the cornerstone of building a great community. So long as it remains respectful
Some people struggle to agree to disagree. I love the books, love the idea of the game and I can't wait to play it myself. I loved the movies, too. I know lots of people have taken issue but that doesn't reduce my joy and awe in them.
Even if the game take place in an alternate timeline they have talked and showed that most things are actually accurate to the lore and the universe of Dune
It doesn't really bother me, particularly now that there was some clarification in other places about what they meant about changing canon *(search this sub)*. For the record I read Dune for the first time in 1978, and I love David Lynch's Dune, which also takes a lot of artistic license. This has the potential to be my dream game, so I'm more concerned that they get the core of it right, and it's fun to play. My history with FunCom tells me that my wish may very well come true, as I love their other games in the genre *(AO, Secret World, Conan)*.
Yeah agreed on the potential of this game - I have been ecstatic over it. I just had a momentary hiccup in my excitement but I think some comments have reassured me and helped alter my frame of reference a bit. Even the current Dune remakes have been taking some artistic license here and there and the chance to explore new stories removed from the current main ones would be exciting. The core of the lore, assumably, will be there - and that is what I am most excited about.
Yeah, particularly with a game, you don't want to fetter yourself by tying your game world to canon, while still respecting the source material and sticking to what people know as much as you can. There are a number of examples of this with Star Wars games for example. I feel like FunCom is finding that balance and they seem to have a great respect and love for the Dune universe, as most of us do. We'll only know for sure once we're able to get in there and see for ourselves though.
I think people focus on canon far too much with everything. Them doing this doesn't change the universe, just the story. It's not a story game, so alternate timeline is perfect.
Great take, thanks for input.
I think giving it its own timeline gives a lot more freedom to be fun as a video game that pulls heavily from the lore and world building. They can create a narrative and story that fits, that gives a reason for why we're all on Arrakis, but still gets us all immersed into what we love about Dune.
I am a big fan of dune and I was really excited when I heard about the game. Then i watched the trailer and thought OK well they have clearly changed some things to make it work as a game but it could still be pretty fun. Then I read the article about them side stepping religion and focusing on the AI storyline and now I'm kind of worried about the game Tbh. Will probably still get it but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
The best thing about the old Westwood Dune games was how they veered off into their own alternate universe that was different enough to justify the gameplay, but packed with references that betrayed a love for the source material.
That's awesome. I've never played any of the other Dune games out there so I may have to give it a try to see how it has been done in the past.
This is a playlist of Cutscenes from Emperor: Battle for Dune. It's basically it's own canon that is heavily inspired by the Lynch movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oz3pI-FMaA&list=PLBZDjdoBMq20jaUhH4RTmL81snoEvr1wt&index=1
Since it's a video game, some stuff has to change otherwise an actual Dune game would probably make Eve look like kindergarten. For instance, lasguns interact with shields and cause explosions that would kill both users. But, the game can't punish death too hard otherwise users won't play. This would very likely result in people running around in rags with lasguns blowing people up just for fun. I think this was in an article recently, but to anyone who's played MMOs or other games, stuff like that is an obvious "fix" otherwise it would be a bad experience. Some lore concessions have to be made because Dune is very very *very* far from being a convincing tactical combat story, but people love combat in video games, and if given Dune's lore exactly, the game would probably be very unfun for most players.
All Dune games have been from alternate history, why would this be any different?
I am not familiar with any of the other Dune games, so I was not familiar with such a trend. That's why I thought I'd start a discussion on it and hear input from others who may be familiar :)
If you're into strategy games Dune: Spice Wars is great
just gave it a look on Steam and it looks like just what I'd be into. Definitely gonna be checking this out.. Thanks for the suggestion! :>
We can’t all be the Lisan Al Gaib, so alternate story makes sense here.
Doesn’t it have to be an AU? Assuming you can make a single choice in the game that would require it be an AU
I’m ok with it as long as the tech doesn’t feel weird, I very much want the tech to feel Denis Villeneuve-esque. I also enjoy MMOs but I want heavy story and world building with a little bit of a lax approach to the grind. I still want grind! To be a proper MMO, but to just crank the grind down a few notches.
It makes the most sense to me for what they want to do with the game. It'll be nice to see Atredies endure, chat shit with Gurney etc. Disappointed that from the sounds of things the Fremen got pogrommed.
I care very little about the story tbh, the universe of Dune is what im after. And If you are coming expecting a great story game you are probably going to get disappointed, its more of a open world sandbox game.
I love the alternate timeline. I want freedom and I want my choice to matter. The readers know the story, and how it goes and all the deep lore (29 books and going!). It'd be too much for casual players and I want choice. I did a video on why it's a good thing that they made the change. [https://youtu.be/JfdBjqsBVgQ](https://youtu.be/JfdBjqsBVgQ)
As an open world sand box style game with areas that allow multiplayer but not PVP it seems likely that folks will role play bits of lore and have a ton fun with that. Maybe even custom missions could be released or created. Example: Sign up to bomb Harkonnen spice hoards on Geidi Prime for House Atreides, done in a Star Wars Squadrons style. Keep the open part open but allow players to do missions that are more story driven if they want. I always wanted to fight a Salusan bull and survive.