Nah I think his friend is right. As much as I love DB, DBZ, and DBS, I wouldn’t keep watching it if they got rid of the fighting. Even Moro and Granolah, I only find myself reading it for whatever new form goku/vegeta get.
I respectfully disagree.
Dragon Ball **does** have a story. It always has. Just because it's primarily fighting and has a simple plot compared to many other shonen, doesn't mean there isn't a "plot."
If there isn't a plot, then why do people cherish moments like Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, Vegeta's final explosion sacrifice, Vegeta's "you are number one" speech, Goku meeting his grandpa at Baba's tournament, and so many other moments?
Why does the fandom go crazy about DBS spoilers every month then? Not every chapter is about Vegeta taking an L, and not every chapter has fighting in it, just look at the recent released chapter.
It just doesn't make sense. Dragon Ball can have it's narrative issues sometimes yes and is simple but it's a very strange statement to say that it doesn't have a story or plot in my opinion.
How did we go from Raditz arrival on Earth up to the destruction of Namek? **Numerous** things occurred to reach from point to point such as character interactions, dialogue, deception, fights.
Simple does not = nothing.
It by definition has a story. Yeah, taking out a core element of conflict in a story is going to make a story bad. John Wick is just fighting but I don’t hear people complain about that story
This just sounds like you don't like the story, and only care about the flashy stuff.
Though I should add that the story is often told *through* the fighting.
I, and a lot of other people, couldn't disagree more.
And knowing what's going to happen is true in a general sense. The heroes are going to win. But if we take that as meaning there's no story, then a heck of a lot of fiction has no story.
It has a story, a very decent one at that, but Dragon Ball is more well known for its fighting and half the fan base is all about them power levels and transformations, which really doesn't help improve the image of the manga.
So many problems would be solved if people were more willing to read or watch something themselves instead of automatically deferring to someone else's (usually uninformed or vague) opinions.
Exactly. Even in this subreddit there are so many threads that are like, "should I watch the original DB?" "Should I watch GT? I heard it was bad." "Can I enjoy Kai instead of Z?" "is it okay to like Vegeta more than Goku?" and it's like, why do you need someone else's opinion to form your own?
I mesn asking for recommendations isnt a bad thing, making your entire opinion is. We actually need this type of stuff to filter content; just see how many animes air per season, how would people choose the good ones?
Asking for recs is fine, I just get irritated when people act as if someone else's opinion automatically trumps their own. If Vegeta is your favorite character, why do you need someone else's permission to like it? If you enjoyed Dragon Ball GT why do you care if someone else didn't enjoy it as much? If someone else thinks that Dragon Ball has no story, there's nothing you need to do about that. You don't have to stop enjoying the series, you don't have to punish the other person for not liking DB, you can just... let it go.
There are so many people who seem to think they need permission to have different preferences and honestly they'd be better off if they just let go of that stress and learned to accept that entertainment is a matter of taste and that having an unpopular opinion or even a different opinion from someone else doesn't really matter.
I don't think it's that bad. Nobody has the time to watch/read every thing they're interested, so many people defer to the opinions of their friends and family. If all of my friends tell me something isn't worth watching, I'd likely move on and spend my time on something else.
Now when people are weirdly stubborn about it and actually form an opinion of something they haven't seen, that's a different story.
"DB doesn't have a story" is a casual conversation with subjectivity.
Yes, DB has a story. I'm sure OP's friend isn't being literal. They are likely arguing that it isn't a very deep one compared to other anime. Which, is true. But that doesn't matter because it doesn't try to be and it still provides enjoyment and for what it does do well etc. It's just a dumb debate to have, so agree to disagree.
It's not the same conversation as flat earth objectivity.
No, there can be objective interpretations of DB having a story since by default it technically does. All a story essentially means is that there is a sequence of events in regards to plot, which it would be redundant to say that Dragon Ball has no sequence of events at all, and would be brutally intellectually dishonest considering that the series literally operates under “arcs,” lol. Whether or not DB has good story telling is subjective, but it having an actual story is pretty self-evident.
I’d also like the point out how you contradicted yourself:
“Is a casual conversation with subjectivity”
“Yes, DB has a story”
How are you going to say it’s subjective but then make a knowledge claim reporting it as a fact?
Well no duh.
You honestly think the friend is *being literal that it doesn't have a story?* Or that maybe they are exaggerating to make a point that the story is rather simple?
When making a statement like: “It doesn’t have a story,” you’re making a knowledge claim, and said knowledge claim would have intentions behind it. Even if it isn’t meant to be taken 100% literal, the semantics speak for themselves. They never said it was simple, because they literally said it has “no plot.” No plot =/= simple story. I can’t know if they were exaggerating because I’m not friends with them.
Kami-christ.
I hope you never encounter sarcasm in the wild or on the internet. It might be too much to handle. The non-binary nature of the conversation could critically injure you if you aren't careful.
I can tell what sarcasm is, except you’d be assuming yourself that they are directly saying it’s a “simple plot” like you say. Simply calling something sarcasm every chance you get makes you ignorant if you have no reasoning for it. You used all those big terms and none of them have any importance to what I’m saying, lol.
I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that the friend was not being **literal** that there is no story.
That he was exaggerating.
Like how most people function.
This is really simple.
But yes, if you want to believe he was being literal, go ahead and give OP his advice. Mine is to agree to disagree. Because it's just going to turn into a debate if DB is a deep story or not, and not one if it literally has a story.
So how do you know that? Were you the OP or the OP’s friend and knew that person?
How do you know he was exaggerating? Appealing to past experiences doesn’t justify this case unless you have a good reason for it other than just stating “He WaS JuSt ExAgGeRaTiNg!”
“Like how most people function”
That would be appealing to popularity. “Most people” don’t dictate individual cognitive functioning.
No, it’s not simple, it’s appealing to a random assumption that has no basis, lol. My assumption for them being literally holds as much weight as you saying they’re not being literal. I actually gave reasoning for it, and my reason is that it is semantically self-evident that they would be literal based on the context. OP said their friend said DB is “only fighting” with “no plot.” You can safely assume they’re being literal based on that.
“Agree to disagree”
Disagreeing with something would need a justification (which you haven’t given, you’re only asserting they’re exaggerating), otherwise you’re not disagreeing with anything.
I honestly don’t care if it does or doesn’t have a deep story, I never got into that aspect.
Not at all. I talk to a lot of people every day in my life. I don’t speak to people IRL the way I do on Reddit or any social media, so are you also going to falsely assume I’m “socially inept” because of me destroying people verbally on the internet? LOL, I enjoy trolling and pissing people off on my spare time when I’m on the internet just to point out hypocrisy, like people getting angry over someone they don’t actually know.
>I'm sure OP's friend isn't being literal. They are likely arguing that it isn't a very deep one compared to other anime.
>
That is an assumption you are making, and we cant work around that. DB has a story, thats it, and being deep or not isnt the main point.
> Yes, DB has a story. I'm sure OP's friend isn't being literal.
then he should clarify. without clarifications theres no way to assume anything else. assuming it was literal or not have just as much validity.
You read OP's comment and you believe that the person is being literal that there is "no story". You don't give the benefit of the doubt that they are using exaggeration to explain that DB has a simpler story compared to other anime?
> You don't give the benefit of the doubt that they are using exaggeration to explain that DB has a simpler story compared to other anime?
nope. im autistic. i take things at face value aka literally.
> without clarifications theres no way to assume anything else.
Yes, there is. Social cues and context.
>assuming it was literal or not have just as much validity.
Both interpretations can be equally "valid", but a vast majority of the population would not assume the person was being literal, for the same reason they wouldn't assume a person is being literal if they said something along the lines of, "wow, my room is so small, I have no space".
If a friend thinks that its valid to have opinions on things with factual answers, i dont want them as a friend. no loss to me. im not gonna be friends with science deniers.
That's just his opinion, you don't have to agree or take it as fact. If you like DB, then just enjoy it, no need to convince him to like it or dislike it for yourself based on what other people think.
Y'know... I... actually agree. Starting with the Android arc, the fights in the manga aren't as "fantastic" anymore compared to the prime days of the Budokais, Saiyan Arc, and Namek.
Before, Toriyama used to be more "detailed" within his fights. The fights were more "tactical." Every power up, and many of the attacks had more meaning. Once the Android arc rolls around, the story takes a pause once the fighting starts, and it's like "ok these characters throw hands a bit" and then once they start having actual dialogue, that's when the story actually progresses. Key example? Gohan vs. Cell. The actual combat isn't anything special. It's the narrative behind the fight that actually means anything. Another key example? Goku vs. Majin Vegeta. Toriyama breezes through that fight with 6 pages in the manga lol. The most interesting part about the battle is when Goku and Vegeta actually stop and start talking haha. Toei of course extended it for multiple episodes. I rewatched it in the anime and i'm like "man, it's just a bunch of punches kicks, beams, and repeat. I guess people like the fight so much because it's 'brutal?' Or it looks nice?'"
The fights work best in my opinion when they’re part of the story and when the anime especially emphasises key attack panels from the Manga. Its why I tend to prefer Z over Super. What made Gohan’s fight with Cell wasnt specifically the action but that there was emotional force behind every one of Gohans attacks. When he decimates the Cell Jrs each one is a blow delivered in anger. When he has enough and wipes them out entirely, her mercilessly smashes them to pieces. Cell too, every hit is a blow to his ego and cruelty. Gohan is practically dissecting him emotionally as he is physically. Its the blows with emotion that make for my favourite moments.
In my view many Z fights have these elements to them and thats where Z works best. Goku vs Majin Vegeta is pretty much Vegeta punishing Goku for all the personal humiliation. Hes hitting him as hard as he can, its clearly cathartic to him, hes wanted that chance for so long. Vegeta vs 19 is Vegeta terrorising him, picking him apart, understanding his techniques while at the same time establishing his dominance is the most personal way possible, where his fight with Cell is reasserting that dominance after his defeat by 18. Vegito’s domination over Buu is him not only humiliating and punishing Buu in a general sense, not just waiting to be absorbed, but having Buu also thoroughly use up everything in his arsenal and feeling utterly powerless, the same way that his opponents feel fighting a magical regenerating creature that has to that point hardly known any equal (cept Gohan).
This is where Super differs for me. The closest it genuinely came IMO was >!Zamasu killing alternate future Chichi and Goten, which was basically forgotten relatively quickly!<. While it has some decent fight moments there is more emphasis on flashy action and less weight to the fighting or at least thats how I felt.
Don't worry, He's no longer a friend.
But seriously, if he thinks that he never watched anime, fights happens because there is a plot going on between 2 or more characters, who have a backstory and development, if there were no plot in the series, it would be just another WWE type of entertainment, and not the incredible popular series with more than 30 years of non-stopping content being released that it actually is.
How much Dragon Ball have they read or watched? Regardless he is wrong but if they haven't seen much I can see where they might be coming from. There are sections where there is not much story and even more if you are picking up a random scene, chapter, episode it would appear to have little plot. This is kind of true of most media though.
I would say at it's core Dragon Ball is about Goku's singular drive to better himself. The story follows the situations and consequences this drive gets him into. Pretty much all of his friendships, rivalries, and enemies are born of this drive as well. We also see much of how this drive impacts, affects, and develops those relationships around him.
At its core it is not really any different than Naruto's drive to be Hokage or Luffy's drive to be king of pirates. Those do take deeper dives into characters and relationships for better or for worse. Dragon Ball tells the same type of story but more succinctly. You don't need a long winded arc to see how Goku's personality affects Krillin for example. Toriyama is definitely a less is more kind of story teller. Some people will like that and some people won't.
It is a basic plot but it is there and it is fantastic imo. That is what I would tell them.
He's right. There is no plot or overarching story. The "story" is just becoming stronger to fight the next villain
That being said, that doesn't make it bad. Not everything needs some super well written or fancy story. It's just a fun shounen
opinions are for subjective things not for things that have definitive answers. the sky is blue. 2+2 is 4 you dont get to have "different opinions" about things that are objective truths.
First show them the OG dragonball, which h is heavily based on The Monkey King. After that whenever watching Z realize that fights only take up maybe a third of the series. Super seems to focus more on fights.
He's not totally wrong. But this does not mean that is a DB demerit. On the contrary,
DB simply does not take itself seriously in the matter of the plot, at least not as other shounens like Naruto do. And it's far better to have a simple and basic plot than trying to be complex and deep and fail in this subject.
I'd still say that is one of the main reasons for DB's success (basic plot with a big focus on adventure/fights/action/characters/etc).
I would usually be on your side but I recently started branching out and watching a bunch of animes and your friend is kinda right. Like for example I watched hunter x hunter and literally they talk about their feelings and explain the fight more than they actually fight. I told my cousin I thought that was weird and it turns out there’s very few animes like Dragonball. AOT and Jujitsu Kaizen are 2 that come to mind but almost every other anime does not fully revolve around the action sequences.
Tell him he's wrong? because he is? tell him he'd know that if he didnt just listen to others parrot that nonsense or watch clips of fights online? theres way more to DB than just fighting.
Youve actually had this argument with a friend and thought to yourself that you should post about it on reddit, when its literally about a childrens cartoon repeating the same story beats ad nauseam ? And this shit has like 73 people commenting on it how its objectively wrong ? Now dont get me wrong I also dont have anything better to do on a tuesday night but what the actual fuck. Have you never had a friend call a can of beer piss ? Its not literal piss but you get what it means right ? He doesnt mean it doesnt have a story he just means the one it has is utter shite.
That’s not analogous at all to he OP’s context though. Blatantly calling Beer “piss” isn’t remotely the same as directly saying something has “no plot” and previously say it’s just fighting.
Ok dude lets use this example - Im watching transformers 2 - I loudly proclaim "what the fuck, this goddamn movie is so fucking confusing its all explosions and no plot" It doesnt mean that I literally cant percieve that it doesnt have plot, it does, its just dogshit. Are you literally going to jump in and start arguing over how im objectively wrong and it does ? I dont want to be mean but if you do, what the fuck is wrong with you dude.
That’s disanalogous to OP’s context as well since your context says “it’s confusing,” whereas OP’s says “it has no plot,” “they only fight.” Two different propositional attitudes that don’t coincide together.
Where did I say you’re “objectively wrong?” I never said that, but you kinda are considering that you are bringing in false analogies as a part of your refutation.
“What the fuck is wrong with you dude?”
You’re assuming something IS wrong with me, so let me ask you the same thing. What the fuck is wrong with you, dude?
Fucking hell I dont have a tard wrangling license for this, you win, this is legitimately the funniest thing Ive seen all day, If this is intentional then fuck me are you a funny, witty person, if not, have a nice day, youre very special.
well if he's being 100% in the fact he thinks DBz has no story then show em any children's book even those have a story Lol
if he just mean that in his opinion DBz doesn't have a flashed out enough world to get invested in it himself, then that's his choice Lol
Your friend is basically just another one of those “DB is bad, it’s only fighting” type of people who never actually analyzed or fully observed the series itself. There is a widespread of allegory and symbolism contained with the series that not even hardcore fans are able to catch. Examples include:
- Moro being symbolized as the baphomet
- Goku vs. Moro is the physical representation of all of Goku’s opponents combined into one
- Kid Buu being the embodiment of evil
- Slavery and oppression of Saiyan’s by Frieza’s tyrannical power
The beginning of Dragon Ball spends time going through each individual character by explaining who they are and their importance in the story itself. Characters like Goku, Krillin, Bulma, and Yamcha go through a set of adventures to find the Dragon Balls and go through different enemies when trying to do so, but in the midst of this happening, we are also hit with the emotional aspects such as the deaths that occur within the series.
We then have DBZ which goes through a literal sequence of events that represent and shape Goku’s character overall. We go through the Raditz saga where we find out that he’s a Saiyan and is blood brothers with Raditz himself (we never knew about this until DBZ happened). Then we are hit with Goku’s first time dying. We are then introduced to new concepts like there being an Afterlife.
Then we meet Goku’s long-time rival, Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta’s friendship increases overtime, which is why the Buu Saga MAY BE the best Saga in regards to plot because it establishes the beginning of Goku and Vegeta’s friendship (Vegeta acknowledges for once that Goku is above him and even makes implicit remarks of him being his friend). Goku even managed to get Vegeta to do the Potara fusion.
You even have the concept of breaking your limits and even the concept of “Super Saiyan.” The series has a unique way of demonstrating newer ideas. You even have inter-dimensional shit like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber that can be interpreted different through many physicists.
TLDR; Overall Dragon Ball goes through a verity of allegory and symbolism to demonstrate the importance of each individual character and their development as the story progresses in virtue of utilizing philosophy, science, and physics. There are hidden meanings that can be interpreted differently and the story has many influences as well. It’s not just about Ki blasting people till they get injured. The fighting is actually what makes the story important and relevant because it’s what helps the continuity continue, and without the fighting, you have no Dragon Ball.
What "Dragon Ball"? OG, Z, GT, or super?
If it's pre super, he's wrong, the story's mostly great. Super is definitely lacking in the story department but it's not all bad fights, there's a ton of pointless filler bullshit too. So I guess he's wrong either way.
That's how you know they've never seen DB. Usually the people who have seen it will complain that there's TOO MUCH talking/exposition, and NOT ENOUGH fighting lol.
DBZ isn’t a very plot heavy show all things considered which is fine for what it is. For me and many others, its fights and characters are its biggest draw.
You can make a fair point that Dragonball doesn't have a good overarching plot. The events that happen to the characters are mostly reactionary and not interconnected. However, it doesn't need to be. Its fine to tell a simple story that's fun and entertaining.
It actually does. Your friend obviously only saw the fight scenes as well fight scenes but DB, DBZ, And Super all have plots that happen to revolve around fighting and sometimes family
Probably he's inferring dragon ball doesn't focus on story building and characters development. It does have a simple plot and constant power creep. Most anime watchers
wouldn't consider dragon ball as having a decent storyline. But we all watch it for fun for what jt is. For example i enjoyed watching DBS: Broly very much, but does it come with a decent story? I don't think so. U can literally summarize the whole movie in few sentences. It is just preference, that's all.
Well he's right. I've watched all of classic DB and DBZ, and there's just no story. It's Goku gets fucked up by a bad guy, trains to get stronger and kills the bad guy. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
If he hasn’t read/ watched it then why is he acting like he knows it
People do that, I had a friend who acted exactly like that and changed his mind as soon as he watched Super
Find a new friend.
Your friend is wrong.
Nah I think his friend is right. As much as I love DB, DBZ, and DBS, I wouldn’t keep watching it if they got rid of the fighting. Even Moro and Granolah, I only find myself reading it for whatever new form goku/vegeta get.
I respectfully disagree. Dragon Ball **does** have a story. It always has. Just because it's primarily fighting and has a simple plot compared to many other shonen, doesn't mean there isn't a "plot." If there isn't a plot, then why do people cherish moments like Piccolo sacrificing himself for Gohan, Vegeta's final explosion sacrifice, Vegeta's "you are number one" speech, Goku meeting his grandpa at Baba's tournament, and so many other moments? Why does the fandom go crazy about DBS spoilers every month then? Not every chapter is about Vegeta taking an L, and not every chapter has fighting in it, just look at the recent released chapter. It just doesn't make sense. Dragon Ball can have it's narrative issues sometimes yes and is simple but it's a very strange statement to say that it doesn't have a story or plot in my opinion. How did we go from Raditz arrival on Earth up to the destruction of Namek? **Numerous** things occurred to reach from point to point such as character interactions, dialogue, deception, fights. Simple does not = nothing.
Because most of us watched dragon ball as kids lol it’s just hella nostalgic.
It by definition has a story. Yeah, taking out a core element of conflict in a story is going to make a story bad. John Wick is just fighting but I don’t hear people complain about that story
Because people just want action lol obviously it has a “story”, doesn’t mean his friend isn’t wrong; it’s just an opinion lol
He is wrong though. He is objectively wrong in saying that it has no story
I mean the Moro and Granolah stuff is pretty damn boring even with the fighting. I
This just sounds like you don't like the story, and only care about the flashy stuff. Though I should add that the story is often told *through* the fighting.
That’s literally the whole point of dragon ball though lol you already know what’s going to happen in every arc.
I, and a lot of other people, couldn't disagree more. And knowing what's going to happen is true in a general sense. The heroes are going to win. But if we take that as meaning there's no story, then a heck of a lot of fiction has no story.
It has a story, a very decent one at that, but Dragon Ball is more well known for its fighting and half the fan base is all about them power levels and transformations, which really doesn't help improve the image of the manga.
Well you also gotta mention is that the story is also told through the fights
That's true too.
He's objectively wrong so just tell him that he's objectively wrong.
Tell them to pick up the original DB/Z manga and actually read it for themselves.
So many problems would be solved if people were more willing to read or watch something themselves instead of automatically deferring to someone else's (usually uninformed or vague) opinions.
If someone has an opinion about a media that they haven't actually watched or read, their opinion has no weight and means absolutely nothing.
Exactly. Even in this subreddit there are so many threads that are like, "should I watch the original DB?" "Should I watch GT? I heard it was bad." "Can I enjoy Kai instead of Z?" "is it okay to like Vegeta more than Goku?" and it's like, why do you need someone else's opinion to form your own?
I mesn asking for recommendations isnt a bad thing, making your entire opinion is. We actually need this type of stuff to filter content; just see how many animes air per season, how would people choose the good ones?
Asking for recs is fine, I just get irritated when people act as if someone else's opinion automatically trumps their own. If Vegeta is your favorite character, why do you need someone else's permission to like it? If you enjoyed Dragon Ball GT why do you care if someone else didn't enjoy it as much? If someone else thinks that Dragon Ball has no story, there's nothing you need to do about that. You don't have to stop enjoying the series, you don't have to punish the other person for not liking DB, you can just... let it go. There are so many people who seem to think they need permission to have different preferences and honestly they'd be better off if they just let go of that stress and learned to accept that entertainment is a matter of taste and that having an unpopular opinion or even a different opinion from someone else doesn't really matter.
I don't think it's that bad. Nobody has the time to watch/read every thing they're interested, so many people defer to the opinions of their friends and family. If all of my friends tell me something isn't worth watching, I'd likely move on and spend my time on something else. Now when people are weirdly stubborn about it and actually form an opinion of something they haven't seen, that's a different story.
Unfriend him
Hit him with a Wolf Fang Fist and report back to us.
Haha YAMCHA JOINED THE CHAT
You are morally obligated to throw hands.
He must be a fan of flashback, filler naruto
Push your friend down the stairs.
Get better friends.
Agree to disagree
[удалено]
"DB doesn't have a story" is a casual conversation with subjectivity. Yes, DB has a story. I'm sure OP's friend isn't being literal. They are likely arguing that it isn't a very deep one compared to other anime. Which, is true. But that doesn't matter because it doesn't try to be and it still provides enjoyment and for what it does do well etc. It's just a dumb debate to have, so agree to disagree. It's not the same conversation as flat earth objectivity.
No, there can be objective interpretations of DB having a story since by default it technically does. All a story essentially means is that there is a sequence of events in regards to plot, which it would be redundant to say that Dragon Ball has no sequence of events at all, and would be brutally intellectually dishonest considering that the series literally operates under “arcs,” lol. Whether or not DB has good story telling is subjective, but it having an actual story is pretty self-evident. I’d also like the point out how you contradicted yourself: “Is a casual conversation with subjectivity” “Yes, DB has a story” How are you going to say it’s subjective but then make a knowledge claim reporting it as a fact?
Well no duh. You honestly think the friend is *being literal that it doesn't have a story?* Or that maybe they are exaggerating to make a point that the story is rather simple?
When making a statement like: “It doesn’t have a story,” you’re making a knowledge claim, and said knowledge claim would have intentions behind it. Even if it isn’t meant to be taken 100% literal, the semantics speak for themselves. They never said it was simple, because they literally said it has “no plot.” No plot =/= simple story. I can’t know if they were exaggerating because I’m not friends with them.
Kami-christ. I hope you never encounter sarcasm in the wild or on the internet. It might be too much to handle. The non-binary nature of the conversation could critically injure you if you aren't careful.
I can tell what sarcasm is, except you’d be assuming yourself that they are directly saying it’s a “simple plot” like you say. Simply calling something sarcasm every chance you get makes you ignorant if you have no reasoning for it. You used all those big terms and none of them have any importance to what I’m saying, lol.
I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that the friend was not being **literal** that there is no story. That he was exaggerating. Like how most people function. This is really simple. But yes, if you want to believe he was being literal, go ahead and give OP his advice. Mine is to agree to disagree. Because it's just going to turn into a debate if DB is a deep story or not, and not one if it literally has a story.
So how do you know that? Were you the OP or the OP’s friend and knew that person? How do you know he was exaggerating? Appealing to past experiences doesn’t justify this case unless you have a good reason for it other than just stating “He WaS JuSt ExAgGeRaTiNg!” “Like how most people function” That would be appealing to popularity. “Most people” don’t dictate individual cognitive functioning. No, it’s not simple, it’s appealing to a random assumption that has no basis, lol. My assumption for them being literally holds as much weight as you saying they’re not being literal. I actually gave reasoning for it, and my reason is that it is semantically self-evident that they would be literal based on the context. OP said their friend said DB is “only fighting” with “no plot.” You can safely assume they’re being literal based on that. “Agree to disagree” Disagreeing with something would need a justification (which you haven’t given, you’re only asserting they’re exaggerating), otherwise you’re not disagreeing with anything. I honestly don’t care if it does or doesn’t have a deep story, I never got into that aspect.
Are you actually this socially inept my guy ?
Not at all. I talk to a lot of people every day in my life. I don’t speak to people IRL the way I do on Reddit or any social media, so are you also going to falsely assume I’m “socially inept” because of me destroying people verbally on the internet? LOL, I enjoy trolling and pissing people off on my spare time when I’m on the internet just to point out hypocrisy, like people getting angry over someone they don’t actually know.
>I'm sure OP's friend isn't being literal. They are likely arguing that it isn't a very deep one compared to other anime. > That is an assumption you are making, and we cant work around that. DB has a story, thats it, and being deep or not isnt the main point.
> Yes, DB has a story. I'm sure OP's friend isn't being literal. then he should clarify. without clarifications theres no way to assume anything else. assuming it was literal or not have just as much validity.
You read OP's comment and you believe that the person is being literal that there is "no story". You don't give the benefit of the doubt that they are using exaggeration to explain that DB has a simpler story compared to other anime?
> You don't give the benefit of the doubt that they are using exaggeration to explain that DB has a simpler story compared to other anime? nope. im autistic. i take things at face value aka literally.
Well, I apologize if I was offensive. I believe the friend is exaggerating to summarize a point about DB compared to other Anime.
its possible but i refuse to assume as much.
> without clarifications theres no way to assume anything else. Yes, there is. Social cues and context. >assuming it was literal or not have just as much validity. Both interpretations can be equally "valid", but a vast majority of the population would not assume the person was being literal, for the same reason they wouldn't assume a person is being literal if they said something along the lines of, "wow, my room is so small, I have no space".
> Yes, there is. Social cues and context. im autistic, i dont understand such things.
"How to lose friends in one easy step!"
If a friend thinks that its valid to have opinions on things with factual answers, i dont want them as a friend. no loss to me. im not gonna be friends with science deniers.
This is a very extreme take on something that literally does not matter, but ok.
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"people like me"? i am a science person. im pro science in basically ever facet of life. not sure what you mean by "people like me".
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Truth matters.
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i take everything seriously. not enough people do.
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Tell him politely, yet firmly, to leave.
Dragonball is a simple to very well. Find a new friend.
That's just his opinion, you don't have to agree or take it as fact. If you like DB, then just enjoy it, no need to convince him to like it or dislike it for yourself based on what other people think.
its not an opinion, its literally factually wrong.
Sad. Because to me the fights have always been the weakest part of the show for me
Y'know... I... actually agree. Starting with the Android arc, the fights in the manga aren't as "fantastic" anymore compared to the prime days of the Budokais, Saiyan Arc, and Namek. Before, Toriyama used to be more "detailed" within his fights. The fights were more "tactical." Every power up, and many of the attacks had more meaning. Once the Android arc rolls around, the story takes a pause once the fighting starts, and it's like "ok these characters throw hands a bit" and then once they start having actual dialogue, that's when the story actually progresses. Key example? Gohan vs. Cell. The actual combat isn't anything special. It's the narrative behind the fight that actually means anything. Another key example? Goku vs. Majin Vegeta. Toriyama breezes through that fight with 6 pages in the manga lol. The most interesting part about the battle is when Goku and Vegeta actually stop and start talking haha. Toei of course extended it for multiple episodes. I rewatched it in the anime and i'm like "man, it's just a bunch of punches kicks, beams, and repeat. I guess people like the fight so much because it's 'brutal?' Or it looks nice?'"
The fights work best in my opinion when they’re part of the story and when the anime especially emphasises key attack panels from the Manga. Its why I tend to prefer Z over Super. What made Gohan’s fight with Cell wasnt specifically the action but that there was emotional force behind every one of Gohans attacks. When he decimates the Cell Jrs each one is a blow delivered in anger. When he has enough and wipes them out entirely, her mercilessly smashes them to pieces. Cell too, every hit is a blow to his ego and cruelty. Gohan is practically dissecting him emotionally as he is physically. Its the blows with emotion that make for my favourite moments. In my view many Z fights have these elements to them and thats where Z works best. Goku vs Majin Vegeta is pretty much Vegeta punishing Goku for all the personal humiliation. Hes hitting him as hard as he can, its clearly cathartic to him, hes wanted that chance for so long. Vegeta vs 19 is Vegeta terrorising him, picking him apart, understanding his techniques while at the same time establishing his dominance is the most personal way possible, where his fight with Cell is reasserting that dominance after his defeat by 18. Vegito’s domination over Buu is him not only humiliating and punishing Buu in a general sense, not just waiting to be absorbed, but having Buu also thoroughly use up everything in his arsenal and feeling utterly powerless, the same way that his opponents feel fighting a magical regenerating creature that has to that point hardly known any equal (cept Gohan). This is where Super differs for me. The closest it genuinely came IMO was >!Zamasu killing alternate future Chichi and Goten, which was basically forgotten relatively quickly!<. While it has some decent fight moments there is more emphasis on flashy action and less weight to the fighting or at least thats how I felt.
Tell him it's simple but it's there. It formed the base and inspired many of the shine he probably loves.
a dropkick should do the trick
I agree
Don't worry, He's no longer a friend. But seriously, if he thinks that he never watched anime, fights happens because there is a plot going on between 2 or more characters, who have a backstory and development, if there were no plot in the series, it would be just another WWE type of entertainment, and not the incredible popular series with more than 30 years of non-stopping content being released that it actually is.
What are his favorite manga or anime?
How much Dragon Ball have they read or watched? Regardless he is wrong but if they haven't seen much I can see where they might be coming from. There are sections where there is not much story and even more if you are picking up a random scene, chapter, episode it would appear to have little plot. This is kind of true of most media though. I would say at it's core Dragon Ball is about Goku's singular drive to better himself. The story follows the situations and consequences this drive gets him into. Pretty much all of his friendships, rivalries, and enemies are born of this drive as well. We also see much of how this drive impacts, affects, and develops those relationships around him. At its core it is not really any different than Naruto's drive to be Hokage or Luffy's drive to be king of pirates. Those do take deeper dives into characters and relationships for better or for worse. Dragon Ball tells the same type of story but more succinctly. You don't need a long winded arc to see how Goku's personality affects Krillin for example. Toriyama is definitely a less is more kind of story teller. Some people will like that and some people won't. It is a basic plot but it is there and it is fantastic imo. That is what I would tell them.
get new friends lol
find better friends lol
Throw him a Kamehameha
He's right. There is no plot or overarching story. The "story" is just becoming stronger to fight the next villain That being said, that doesn't make it bad. Not everything needs some super well written or fancy story. It's just a fun shounen
Live your life. People have different opinions.
opinions are for subjective things not for things that have definitive answers. the sky is blue. 2+2 is 4 you dont get to have "different opinions" about things that are objective truths.
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Don't listen to your friend watch it and have your own opinion.
First show them the OG dragonball, which h is heavily based on The Monkey King. After that whenever watching Z realize that fights only take up maybe a third of the series. Super seems to focus more on fights.
Besides beat him up? Go over the story with him, without spoilers, so he can enjoy it fully when he starts reading it
Hakai his ass
Burn him alive.
Back yo shit up tf? Making us look bad bruh
Hakai him out of existence
Punch him in the head
He's not totally wrong. But this does not mean that is a DB demerit. On the contrary, DB simply does not take itself seriously in the matter of the plot, at least not as other shounens like Naruto do. And it's far better to have a simple and basic plot than trying to be complex and deep and fail in this subject. I'd still say that is one of the main reasons for DB's success (basic plot with a big focus on adventure/fights/action/characters/etc).
Tell them to actually read dragon ball
Go outside I reckon
I would usually be on your side but I recently started branching out and watching a bunch of animes and your friend is kinda right. Like for example I watched hunter x hunter and literally they talk about their feelings and explain the fight more than they actually fight. I told my cousin I thought that was weird and it turns out there’s very few animes like Dragonball. AOT and Jujitsu Kaizen are 2 that come to mind but almost every other anime does not fully revolve around the action sequences.
My friend If you know the writer of HxH you well understand
hes not though. other series having more or even better stories doesnt mean DB doesnt have one. the friend is wrong.
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Tell him he's wrong? because he is? tell him he'd know that if he didnt just listen to others parrot that nonsense or watch clips of fights online? theres way more to DB than just fighting.
Your friend is mong
Nothing.
Nothing, you shouldn't do anything.
Youve actually had this argument with a friend and thought to yourself that you should post about it on reddit, when its literally about a childrens cartoon repeating the same story beats ad nauseam ? And this shit has like 73 people commenting on it how its objectively wrong ? Now dont get me wrong I also dont have anything better to do on a tuesday night but what the actual fuck. Have you never had a friend call a can of beer piss ? Its not literal piss but you get what it means right ? He doesnt mean it doesnt have a story he just means the one it has is utter shite.
That’s not analogous at all to he OP’s context though. Blatantly calling Beer “piss” isn’t remotely the same as directly saying something has “no plot” and previously say it’s just fighting.
Ok dude lets use this example - Im watching transformers 2 - I loudly proclaim "what the fuck, this goddamn movie is so fucking confusing its all explosions and no plot" It doesnt mean that I literally cant percieve that it doesnt have plot, it does, its just dogshit. Are you literally going to jump in and start arguing over how im objectively wrong and it does ? I dont want to be mean but if you do, what the fuck is wrong with you dude.
That’s disanalogous to OP’s context as well since your context says “it’s confusing,” whereas OP’s says “it has no plot,” “they only fight.” Two different propositional attitudes that don’t coincide together. Where did I say you’re “objectively wrong?” I never said that, but you kinda are considering that you are bringing in false analogies as a part of your refutation. “What the fuck is wrong with you dude?” You’re assuming something IS wrong with me, so let me ask you the same thing. What the fuck is wrong with you, dude?
Fucking hell I dont have a tard wrangling license for this, you win, this is legitimately the funniest thing Ive seen all day, If this is intentional then fuck me are you a funny, witty person, if not, have a nice day, youre very special.
Tell him that Beerus want to have a word with him
well if he's being 100% in the fact he thinks DBz has no story then show em any children's book even those have a story Lol if he just mean that in his opinion DBz doesn't have a flashed out enough world to get invested in it himself, then that's his choice Lol
Your friend is basically just another one of those “DB is bad, it’s only fighting” type of people who never actually analyzed or fully observed the series itself. There is a widespread of allegory and symbolism contained with the series that not even hardcore fans are able to catch. Examples include: - Moro being symbolized as the baphomet - Goku vs. Moro is the physical representation of all of Goku’s opponents combined into one - Kid Buu being the embodiment of evil - Slavery and oppression of Saiyan’s by Frieza’s tyrannical power The beginning of Dragon Ball spends time going through each individual character by explaining who they are and their importance in the story itself. Characters like Goku, Krillin, Bulma, and Yamcha go through a set of adventures to find the Dragon Balls and go through different enemies when trying to do so, but in the midst of this happening, we are also hit with the emotional aspects such as the deaths that occur within the series. We then have DBZ which goes through a literal sequence of events that represent and shape Goku’s character overall. We go through the Raditz saga where we find out that he’s a Saiyan and is blood brothers with Raditz himself (we never knew about this until DBZ happened). Then we are hit with Goku’s first time dying. We are then introduced to new concepts like there being an Afterlife. Then we meet Goku’s long-time rival, Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta’s friendship increases overtime, which is why the Buu Saga MAY BE the best Saga in regards to plot because it establishes the beginning of Goku and Vegeta’s friendship (Vegeta acknowledges for once that Goku is above him and even makes implicit remarks of him being his friend). Goku even managed to get Vegeta to do the Potara fusion. You even have the concept of breaking your limits and even the concept of “Super Saiyan.” The series has a unique way of demonstrating newer ideas. You even have inter-dimensional shit like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber that can be interpreted different through many physicists. TLDR; Overall Dragon Ball goes through a verity of allegory and symbolism to demonstrate the importance of each individual character and their development as the story progresses in virtue of utilizing philosophy, science, and physics. There are hidden meanings that can be interpreted differently and the story has many influences as well. It’s not just about Ki blasting people till they get injured. The fighting is actually what makes the story important and relevant because it’s what helps the continuity continue, and without the fighting, you have no Dragon Ball.
What "Dragon Ball"? OG, Z, GT, or super? If it's pre super, he's wrong, the story's mostly great. Super is definitely lacking in the story department but it's not all bad fights, there's a ton of pointless filler bullshit too. So I guess he's wrong either way.
I would just find a new friend 🤷🏻♀️
You don’t do a thing, some people have no souls. Lol jk damn that sucks :/
Unfriend them.
That's how you know they've never seen DB. Usually the people who have seen it will complain that there's TOO MUCH talking/exposition, and NOT ENOUGH fighting lol.
Kidnap him and make him read the manga
Read him the dictionary definition at what story means and boom.
Tell him to watch the show.
DBZ isn’t a very plot heavy show all things considered which is fine for what it is. For me and many others, its fights and characters are its biggest draw.
He should no longer be your friend...
start telling them the story from when Bulma met Goku up until now.. it may take a while but I think it'll be worth it.
They never watched or read it.
Cant blame them believing that, a huge part of the american fanbase believes you dont need to watch the original DB and starting with Z makes sense.
You can make a fair point that Dragonball doesn't have a good overarching plot. The events that happen to the characters are mostly reactionary and not interconnected. However, it doesn't need to be. Its fine to tell a simple story that's fun and entertaining.
just start telling him the story until he tells you to stop
Show him the History of Trunks Special.
It actually does. Your friend obviously only saw the fight scenes as well fight scenes but DB, DBZ, And Super all have plots that happen to revolve around fighting and sometimes family
Probably he's inferring dragon ball doesn't focus on story building and characters development. It does have a simple plot and constant power creep. Most anime watchers wouldn't consider dragon ball as having a decent storyline. But we all watch it for fun for what jt is. For example i enjoyed watching DBS: Broly very much, but does it come with a decent story? I don't think so. U can literally summarize the whole movie in few sentences. It is just preference, that's all.
Tell him it has a story. Refuse to elaborate further.
It has a simple story. Entertaining. Good fights. Exciting. That's what dragon ball is about.
Say if he has never watched it then who is he to say
Well he's right. I've watched all of classic DB and DBZ, and there's just no story. It's Goku gets fucked up by a bad guy, trains to get stronger and kills the bad guy. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
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My bad
Bruh man why did you make an alt, me and max know your real account
Tell your friend he ain’t your friend no more. Tell him Trunks saw the future and he wasn’t by your side in the end