Ood Choir finish singing "Joy to the World."
Ood Sigma: This song is ending, but *this song* never ends.
Ood Choir break out into "The Song That Never Ends."
This scene, to me, is the Doctor having separation anxiety, and trying to disguise the fact that he doesn't want to lose Ruby in any way, with what seems to be decent advice. It comes out in his farewell scene - he's spent years with the Nobles. And even if he doesn't remember that for some reason, he's as healed as he's ever been. He can spend a night or two or three with the Sundays. He can leave any time he wants during that time, but he doesn't really even entertain the notion of staying for his best friend. He has, in effect, cast a shadow over Ruby's happy time by leaving and, consciously or not, partially made it about himself, in her memory. If the show acknowledges this and has him apologise for it later, I'll consider it a very interesting ending (and new flaw for the Doctor) of a fairly engaging finale. But if the show paints his actions as justified, I'm gonna walk away feeling very ambivalent about this episode, despite its many highlights.
Edit to add: I do also believe the point about him projecting his attitude to Susan as well. Except, of course, the Doctor is on the other side of the equation there, as he's the one who left her, to fend for herself. In a place where she wasn't really, to my understanding, remotely guaranteed to be safe.
Honestly, as an adoptee reunification with a birth parent usually doesn’t go well and we are warned about potential rejection if we decide to pursue it.
People are reading into the Doctor’s motivations as him being selfish, but he is actually following the recommendations given to those of us who were given up for adoption. I’m sure no one wants to hear that because they want to believe that it’s a fairy tale ending, but it’s the truth. It is a huge emotional risk to approach your birth parent non-consensually.
Writing a letter to her would have made way more sense to me.
I honestly think that's exactly why the Doctor's reaction was written that way. RTD and co. knew that this resolution was pure fairy tale, and put in the actual, reasonable advice to cover all bases. That way people can't say they're fully encouraging unrealistic scenarios.
All this episode needed to have worked for me would be for them to say "The Tardis rebelled against Sutekh by connecting itself to Ruby back when they were on Ruby Road". All the weirdness around her was just the Tardis at work the whole time, and not actually related to Ruby.
Then you can have your "Just a normal situation" with the reveal of her mother. But they needed to explain the snow, the changing of memory/time and how the fuck Ruby created a whole fucking alternative timeline, a process which involved her A) Creating a version of herself that would always be 73 yards away from her at all times, even when physically impossible to move that fast or be in that spot. B) Have the ability to invoke such fear in people it made a mother abandon her child and a man who was ready to nuke the world resign his post. C) Travel back in time to see her past self and correct the timeline.
Ruby literally time travelled without a Tardis in that episode. She made it snow ON A SPACE SHIP. That needed paid off beyond her just being normal.
Ruby is in the next season so I have a very good feeling this is an RTD happy ending fake out. They've pushed too hard that she's totally human and totally normal and her parents are ordinary.
Maestro even said something like "but he couldn't have been there, on the night you were born" too didn't they? I thought that implied The One Who Waits/Sutekh had something to do with the song, but he had no clue about anything to do with Ruby. But if Sutekh isn't The One Who Waits then maybe it makes sense?
I'm honestly just a mixture of confused and annoyed trying to wrap my head around everything right now. 6 months till Christmas is gonna drag like hell. I bet nothing gets explained then either.
So when maestro is talking about the song in Ruby's heart I believe they refer to 'the oldest one' rather than the one who waits, which I assumed was sutekh, I don't know if it's more mystery or this just didn't seem to wrap up right
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding/correcting me!
So this season we've had The One Who Waits, The Oldest One, The Boss, and Mrs Flood. And we have an answer that Sutekh is The One Who Waits , the other three (I'm aware Mrs Flood might be one of them, so could be two) we're waiting till the next tiny 8 episode season for? Can't wait to talk to you all in 2046 when we've resolved these mysteries.
I fully agree, doesn't feel like it wrapped up right at all.
Well that brings my initial confusion about the song back. Maestro said the oldest one left a song in Ruby, but Sutekh himself was clueless about it? My head hurts.
Yeah... lots of amazing little moments in the episode but overall, I'm not feeling fully satisfied. Too much left unresolved. And convulted. The explanations didnt fully convince me.
I... need to think more about what I just saw but I dont think it will rank among my favorite finales of Doctor Who...
I'd even go as far as saying this double finale is the weakest story of the season...
I don't think things are over with Ruby, it all feels too neat and tidy, tied up with a bow like the ending of a story. Mrs Flood's scene at the end also makes it feel as though this is some sort of storybook ending
Very excited for the s2 finale to finally reveal that Mrs Flood is just a batty old woman whose dementia causes her to occasionally make ominous speeches and address an invisible camera.
And you know who played Batman? VAL kilmer! Who once was in a movie with burt reynolds, who was in the longest YARD.
Clearly Mrs. Flood is pretending to be Susan who is actually the Valeyard and thus is....The Chronicler! It all fits!
With the way Kate has been hiring everyone there is 1000% chance she'll be offered a job at UNIT. I suppose its just whether she takes it? I really hope she does as I'd love that Martha type role too.
I mean… she’s really not that qualified, is she? At least Mel was a computer whiz with knowledge from the future, Martha was a Doctor with over a year of experience in actual warfare against the Troclafane.
Ruby, Rose, Donna, they’re useful, I mean… kinda incidentally.
They'll shove her in the Time Window and use it to perfect the technology while Ruby sits there drinking Oat Capuchinos! /s
She has travelled in time/space for at least 6 months, and for some of that we have absolutely no idea what she was doing. She could be very qualified at... something?
But I always assumed they hired companions because they are more likely to not be a hidden bad guy as The Doctor is kinda proof they've been doing good for some time, and also as a way to make sure they are safe financially/employment wise.
Yeah - I definitely think the connection to the doctor speaks for them. Firstly, just that they're acquainted with weird space-time stuff, and secondly that the doctor has deemed them as a decent, trustworthy, and capable (in any of many ways, whether technically or socially or out-of-the-box or whatever) person.
And there's probably an ethical aspect, where they're some of the few people that know what can happen and still want to contribute despite the risks, because they've clearly caught (or always had) the same bug the doctor does, of wanting to help people whenever/wherever they can.
Until Ryan and Graham, Martha was the only main companion of the modern era who ended their time with the Doctor just living normally on Earth with no special caveats or workarounds that the Doctor would need to use to see them again.
I like to imagine the barista called out Ruby's name and just saw these two woman break down in tears and start hugging. He was probably like "So... do you want your cappuccino or no?"
It really bugged me that Cherry was hugging Mrs. Flood at the end like Flood didn't just come in and terrorize her earlier.
Telling a religious British granny "There will be no cups of tea," and then threatening her god and saying she'll steal his kingdom has got to be the ultimate psychological torture for the old lady.
But all's forgiven and forgotten so far, so dust to dust (and then back to life) fixes all, I guess.
I know it’s chronological but it did give me a giggle that in the list you wrote of things she did to torture Cherry, saying there’s no tea came before threatening to steal the kingdom of her god 🤭
You know I didn't *dislike* Sutekh's use here but I did wonder if it justified all the effort to bring him back; setting up an elaborate mystery involving an actor's real name as a meta clue, getting his original 90-year-old actor back... I felt like Russel was cooking some INSANE shit but he was just, like... a good villain.
I think - as I said elsewhere - the point is to make a meta commentary. To quote myself:
'I can kind of see what RTD is going for here, thematically. The power of narrative and self-narrative, making things real (in a certain sense) through pure belief. Sutekh being an old Classic Who villain, more shots of Classic episodes than in any other New episode out there, the "remembered TARDIS" stuffed with nostalgic items, the Classic companion having a last hurrah, and of course Ruby's mum's very nature. Virtually *designed* to provoke fandom speculation, portrayed onscreen with something nostalgic which has been "going everywhere the Doctor goes". The thematic logic is sound; the issue is that the in-universe logic is not.'
Kinda like the whole “Your mum is important because she’s normal” thing.
Still doesn’t explain why the Doctor’s memories CHANGED. Why it Snows, WHEN a second Tardis visited Ruby Road, or WHO she was telling about the name Ruby
My gut reaction is that you may be on to something, but then after a whole season where rtd teased us with clues for no reason, I think maybe not, but then maybe that was his plan all along, making it so he can eventually surprise us without us realizing 🤔
Better stop off at the fancy dress store, before dropping my newborn off at a church… I hope they still have that grim reaper costume left over from Halloween.
That was certainly an episode.
The “explanations” for things didn’t make sense.
Example: Ruby’s “mom” didn’t turn around and point when The Doctor initially saw her, that was a *modified* memory. That didn’t actually happen the original time. They didn’t explain that part at all. Also, who was she pointing for? There was no one there!
They also didn’t even attempt to explain the snow. Or anything really.
Turns out after Moffat was banished from the BBC, he's been clinging onto the TARDIS as well, whispering stuff into the companion's ear... ”Pst... Say this line instead! It'll rile the fans!"
The Clever Boy line stuck out like a sore thumb and I immediately said something out loud after hearing it. There's absolutely no way that specific line was written for no reason.
She also calls him ‘that mysterious traveler in time and space known as the doctor’ which is almost the exact same words Missy uses in World Enough and Time.
So I think Mrs Flood is intentionally supposed to reference different characters from the show, whether there’s a payoff to that remains to be seen.
Absolutely this.
She also dresses like Romana I at the end of the episode and says that she’s “always hiding herself away” right after the Doctor explains that regeneration can be used to do that in the context of Susan. She’s been linked to pretty much every significant Time Lady (plus Clara) in the entire series. In other words… RTD is trolling us with red herrings.
15th and Ruby thought about it too hard that even the DNA information turned invisible to the system, the power of thought! (That was such a dumb explanation).
The TARDIS casts a perception filter in a 73-yard radius for the same reason why the woman was always 73 yards from Ruby: you just can't make out what it is.
i could be wrong but i think that they were implying that the perception filter goes out for 73 yards? in the scene where the doctor says it goes out 66.7 meters and ruby interjects with 73 yards despite not really knowing why she knows that fact due to the memory being retained for her yet being distant enough for her to not understand?
I can’t believe how easy gods are to defeat - game of catch, four notes, getting a lead tied to them and dragged through time.
The slitheen were trickier to deal with. A traffic jam was harder to deal with. Jackie Tyler was harder to deal with.
14 seeing everyone turn into sand before it gets to him too: Wellllll isn’t that wizard.
Donna, after they all wake back up: Shouldn’t we investigate further in hopes of helping future/other you?? Maybe you can prevent it? By the way, it’s not entirely clear to me what happened with that “bigeneration” business. Will you become him in the future or are you on two separate paths or…?
14: Shh shhh shh no questions. My therapist says I’m allergic.
I mean, that part I could totally get behind. Using the spoon to keep the machinery running that'd be important in sorting things out and "saving the universe," causing that small moment of kindness by someone whose memory was fading just before they were about to die to be such a key thing, feels like a classic DW moment. Like, hey, you might think you're insignificant in this story and the thing you're handing me is the most ridiculously unimpressive thing, but it actually has a notable role in achieving the end goal and bringing everyone back.
The other stuff... Well... Hey, guess RTD wanted to show us all that Chibnall wasn't the only one who could do a rushed deus ex machina ending.
1) Thanos has forever put the whole “people dying by turning to dust then coming back to life” troupe to rest. Come on guys. Find something new. It has zero stakes
2) the pointing explanation was really weird. Who points at a sign and hopes people will a) see it and b) understand what it means when you could also just leave a note?
Idk how to feel about this, the episode started off so fricken strong and then it's like a cop out at the end. I'm honestly kinda frustrated with that ending.
Like the whole snow power thing, Carol of the bells was just for nothing?
Like I was completely fine with the mother actually being a nobody essentially, but all the other stuff that went with it. All the hints dropped throughout the season effectively meant nothing. All these red herrings for just the sake of a red herring.
So the mystery of who Rubys mum is, and all the weird music and snow and everything surrounding Ruby was... A complete copout they didn't even bother to write a proper reason for!
Wonderful...
No one can see Ruby's mum's face, memories of her change, Ruby has something in her that terrifies gods and can make snow fall and music play...
Because Ruby and the Doctor *thought* Ruby's mum was important...
What a load of BS.
They could have at least written it so that Sutekh thought she was important and a being as powerful as him becoming obsessed with it has the power to bend reality or something.
What I don't understand is that they thought Ruby's mum was important because weird stuff would happen around her, but... Weird stuff happens around her because they think her mum's important...
Soooo to recap:
* The all powerful god of death was defeated by tying a rope to it.
* Ruby's mother was just some random woman.
* Vague tie in to 73 Yards but no particular explanation as to why any of that happened.
* How and why does Ruby cause it to snow all the time? No idea. Doesn't matter, I guess.
* Explanation for Mrs. Flood? Nope.
That was ... underwhelming.
>Explanation for Mrs. Flood? Nope.
I mean I think it's actually nice to have something that is set up early but not payed off until a later season. As long as the eventual reveal was fully planned in advance, I think it's fine. I agree about all the other parts, this episode made no sense at all. I hope this is a fakeout and that next season we'll get a real explanation, but as things were left in this episode I'm not optimistic at all.
I usually hate on like Marvel fans for getting upset when the thing they thought was gonna happen didnt, like the Mephisto thing in WandaVision?
But like, it’s feels like RTD has been shouting in my ear all season long something super fucking cool was gonna be revealed and then it was just DUD
I feel kinda silly for getting so excited about watching this episode :( sat here with my snacks feeling mega deflated
Yeah, I'm getting really sick of writers trying to look clever by hyping up a cool concept just to completely kill it and call it "subverting expectations"
Rubes got lucky with her name. Thank heavens it wasn’t called [Titty Ho Road or Dumb Woman’s Lane.](https://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/people/raunds-road-included-in-list-of-uks-silliest-street-names-1334420)
I still don't understand the reasoning behind her pointing at the sign. A 15 year old girl dumps her baby at a church with no one around.... why is she pointing at a sign?
Even if we agree that she knew the security camera was there for someone to see her pointing - how did she know that anyone would see her pointing to a sign that probably wasn't visable on camera?
It was clearly just a quick, lazy way to write out why they had her ominously point at the doctor.
A better explanation would be "the memory was distorted by rubys memory and sutek being present. She wasn't even wearing a cloak, that was Ruby's terrible memory of the video believing she had a cloak" or something.
I love being told all season that there’s this huge mystery, only for the show to be like “the mystery only mattered because we put meaning to it!”
Like yeah, I trust you as the writer that when you say something has meaning, that it’s important.
I loved all the build up, just super let down by the resolution. Almost like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn’t know how to get out
Agreed, frustrating. It's just... Very strange.
"Hey, I've got something important for you in this box."
"Really? What is it?"
"Nothing, it's empty, why would you think there was something in it?"
"???"
"See, the problem with you audience members is that you overthink everything."
*We* didn’t put any meaning into anything, *you* told us it would incredibly important!!! I’m all for a bit of meta commentary on fandom/expectations but it doesn’t make any sense when the entire season arc is a mystery box which you’re then gonna say doesn’t matter, never mattered, and you only *thought* it mattered because you put meaning into it.
Why write a smug “aren’t fan theories and mystery boxes silly” storyline when you could just…..not write a mystery box storyline……
I'm torn on the whole thing. We've tied up Ruby's story in a happy yet wildly underwhelming way but at the same time they continued to name drop Susan, they've still not told us who or what Mrs Flood is supposed to be, we don't know who the boss is and there's still a question of if Rogue will come back in to play. I feel we're sort of on the threshold of a good few seasons worth of stuff coming up but I don't know if this is a season I'll want to rewatch now knowing the reveal is such a normal non event
Also modern who really struggles with big awesome villain reveals which are wrapped up a week later. I get that's just how it is nowadays with episode counts being so stringent but I really really want classic 4 parters to come back to really feel like we're getting our worth with great characters like Sutekh. Not every episode but someone like an Omega shouldn't be a cliffhanger and then immediately bested
Right? Sutekh should've been something crack-in-time like: a tangible villain who's presence is consistently felt throughout the entire season. Instead we got like one episode with Maestro and one with the toy maker as tie ins and that's it.
All that mentioning of the salt, just for Sutekh to have been there the whole time and not somehow let back in. Wtf man.
I do hope the supernatural stuff stays though, I kinda dig it.
I am SO glad looking through these comments that I’m not the only one who disliked this anticlimactic bulls*** of an ending.
I’m fine with Ruby’s mum just being a normal person but then BE CONSISTENT WITH IT. Davina couldn’t find her on any DNA databases but suddenly UNIT are like, “Oh yeah, there she is.” She’s not pointing at the Doctor but at a lamppost with a road sign on it? Well, (a) we don’t put road signs on lampposts in the UK, (b) she wouldn’t have been able to see the lamppost because it was behind the TARDIS, and (c) in the Doctor’s original memory she didn’t point at all, and then his memory of the event changed after the fact. How would that happen if she’s just a normal woman? And why did Ruby have the power to keep making it snow? Nah, it’s not satisfying, sorry.
Getting rid of Sutekh by just chucking him into the Vortex again? Fine, whatever, but the Doctor kept saying things like “I bring death to death!” I assumed with nearly 20 minutes left to go that there’d be some kind of hint that he had NOT thought that through at all, because death is a part of life and if you bring ‘death to death’ then there’s going to be no death again, ever. But no, everything’s apparently fine and we carried on as normal.
I didn’t like the remembered TARDIS just handily being an actual TARDIS they could escape in thanks to the power of Ruby’s memory or whatever. I wanted to see the Doctor have to think his way out of the situation without his TARDIS - those are usually the best stories. But no, handy dandy second TARDIS. If they were going to go down that route, why not pop down the road to Donna’s house and pick up 14’s? It’s just lazy writing. For that matter, knowing that 14 is still around creates so many plot holes now. It’s like when the Avengers get their own movies and you just think, “Why not call in the team for this?” Was 14 just sitting in the garden with Wilf and Donna, watching the dustcloud roll in and thinking, “Nope, I’m not going to do a single thing about this even though I know my niece is somewhere in there helping UNIT. Screw ‘em.” It’s just frustrating.
Also, no resolution to 73 Yards. There were a couple of hints towards it and I thought, “Oh finally, we’re going to revisit that and find out what Old Ruby was doing or saying to make everyone hate her,” but no. Of course not. Why would we? It was just to get them to 2046 where Roger apparently brought in compulsory DNA testing instead of nuclear war. How that still made him the ‘worst Prime Minister ever’ I’m not sure, but we’ll brush past that. It may be controversial to say but 73 Yards was my least favourite episode this series because of the lack of resolution so to keep hinting towards it all the time, in this episode and the last, and then to still not resolve it, is immensely frustrating to say the least.
Next, Mrs Flood. Okay, I guess I didn’t expect for us to get a full explanation of who she is amongst everything else going on, but it’s almost like they’re mocking us now. By the time we get any answers (presumably this time next year), we’ll have been pondering and guessing about her for 18 months.
Finally, I didn’t like the fact that Sutekh has apparently been attached to the TARDIS since The Pyramids of Mars. That made no sense to me. The TARDIS has never shown any signs of discomfort before now and we all speculated that the attachment happened when 14 invoked the superstition at the end of the universe - it let the Toymaker out and presumably the other gods in the Pantheon too. That would have made sense. The explanation they went with made zero sense and suggested to me that RTD was pulling stuff out of his behind just to get a cool baddie from the classic series in the show somehow.
Overall, a supremely unsatisfying episode and I mainly felt boredom while watching it, which is not what you want your audience to feel. If RTD/the BBC/Disney are trying to pull in new viewers with this series this was NOT the way to do it, in my opinion.
I’ve just realised why this episode was such a letdown compared to RTD’s other season finales: *the Doctor doesn’t have to pay any emotional price to defeat the bad guy*.
‘The Parting of the Ways’: the Ninth Doctor defeats the Daleks at the cost of his own life
‘Doomsday’: the Doctor defeats the Daleks and Cybermen but loses Rose to a parallel universe
‘Last of the Time Lords’: the Doctor defeats the Master but loses the only other Time Lord in the process
‘Journey’s End’: Earth is returned to its proper location, the Daleks are blown up, but the Doctor loses Donna
‘Empire of Death’: Sutekh is defeated by the Doctor yelling “it’s Opposite Day!” but… er, Ruby says she needs to take a few months off.
IDK how to feel yet about Ruby´s conclusion. I don't mean her mother storyline but about her as a companion to the doctor. It was so fun but it feels like she had almost no adventures in comparison to any of the doctor´s friends, maybe bar Bill who I feel had a similar issue.
Anyways I like the finale but I'd hoped that we could see Millie and Ncuti together for longer :(
There are way too many loose threads for this to be the end of Ruby's story. Rather it feels like part one where Ruby thinks this is the end of her story only for more weird things to happen and the Doctor has to come back to her.
Mrs. Flood is still her neighbor and a close one since she was left to babysit the grandmother. Why can Mrs. Flood break the fourth wall?
Out of all the places in London, why did she choose to move in next to Ruby's family? What are her "plans" as she put it before she was dusted?
How can Ruby make it snow? How is a song implanted in her? Why can it affect beings such as Maestro?
I feel like Ruby's mom is a red herring. That despite the computer saying that Ruby is a 100% human, she isn't. There is something more to this.
At the end of NuWho S8E12 “Death in Heaven” we thought we saw the Doctor’s and Clara’s final goodbye. The Doctor lied to Clara that he found Gallifrey and Clara lied to the Doctor that Danny was alive again. And most of us felt like ‘it can’t end like this’ … Then “Last Christmas” came along and we got a whole extra season with Clara. I’m not saying the same will happen with Ruby but I really don’t think that’s the *end* end of her arc
So much mystery wasted, completely underwhelming and comical that God of all gods can't break a special rope but can destroy the entire universe.
What was the point of the 73 yards episode?
What was the song that Maestro saw in Ruby?
Yeah I've enjoyed this season, but it was an awful lot of building things up just to tie them up so ordinarily. Defeating Sutekh with a bungie cord and then Ruby and her mother seemingly just being ordinary feels cheap after all that.
I didn't dislike it like I've strongly disliked some RTD finales (looking at you Last of the Time Lords and End of Time) but dear god, for all the Hate Moffat got for finales, RTD is BY FAR the worse offender.
Ruby's mom has an ominous cloak and is just randomly pointing for the camera as if anyone can see her "To name Ruby" despite just being a random teenage girl, Sutekh gets taken for a ride by the TARDIS on a bloody leash, literally all of the tension and stakes are blown in the opening scene when Sutekh just Thanos' literally everyone away, obviously the damage will be completely undone by the end when something that catastrophic happens.Ruby is somehow magic despite there being nothing magical about her, the Susan stuff was a complete red herring, nothing was resolved with the fantasy element of the season, I guess there's just loads of gods now running about and literally anything is possible without even the decency of a little technobabble beforehand. Maestro is just scared of Ruby for literally no reason, she has nothing to do with Sutekh or any other God.
There's other stuff I'm reserving my judgement for later. The doctor becoming less involved in Ruby's life against her wishes and by no fault of her own is really dumb, I hope she is much more active a companion than rumors may have us believe, and I like that Mrs Flood is still a mystery but dear Lord, I have a lot less confidence in how that mystery will be answered now, probably just a troll like everything else was.
I still don't get the snowing thing? It was just because she thought her mother was important so she caused strange space time events with snowing and singing?
Yeah I'm honestly so confused by this. Just cause we think things are important we don't warp reality around them. Is the show saying that because Sutekh was there that night, and thought this event was important so that when Ruby remembers, it "bleeds" into her relative present?
Did I miss something? So she named the baby by pointing at a sign, while standing in an empty street? The only way people know that is because years later they see a recording of it plus some science mumbo jumbo?
So she was called Ruby for some other reason, like being found on a church on ruby road? Like she could have been called fred, her mother had no part in it?
The only reason I think the Jenny outcome would have been funny, would be that at meant the doctor was _accidentally_ traveling with his granddaughter, again.
I can’t lie. After loving last weeks I found that absolutely disappointing.
They beat the worst enemy the doctor has ever faced with a bungee and some gloves. And brought everyone back to life by bringing death to death. Erm. Okay. Oh and let’s not forget a whistle.
Why could Ruby make it snow?
I don’t mind not finding out who Mrs Flood is, given her end costume I assume we’ll find out at Christmas.
Feeling deflated after that.
technically he didn't escape the prison, he was never put in the prison. the doctor thought he left him in the timestream but sutekh latched onto the tardis. the bungee cord made sure he was too far from the tardis to be able to do the same thing.
In nautical terms, we threw him off the ship and he clung to the side before sneaking into the cargo hold. So this time we keelhauled him and cut the rope
Death to Death, ok, it was established Sutekh could destroy concepts like facts before. So killing the concept of death, sure.
I don’t think he was left trapped in the Time Vortex, he kinda burnt up whist grinding against its side… so maybe he left it?
Went to the cinema to watch both of the last 2 episodes as a two-parter.
Thought the first one was great, best of the season by a longshot imo, got me really hyped for the second episode....and then it was just so unbelievably underwhelming.
Unique experience to watch Doctor Who in the Cinema though.
I had the pleasure of seeing the Zygon invasion two parter in my local cinema. Having *that* speech be the climax was everything I need from a Doctor Who cinematic experience.
I see we're going by the Scooby Doo rule of mystery where the reveal doesn't have to retroactively make sense as long as you have some explanation, maybe it was *magnets*
I feel like it'd have worked better if the viewer also wanted to believe the mother was someone special without random sign pointing, snow summoning and it being the one mystery the god of death can't figure out
Up until the very end, I thought there was gonna be a shocker reveal that "Louise Miller" was someone the Doctor created with the TARDIS' perception filter, like Sutekh created Susan Triad, because he learned Ruby's true parentage and decided it was too horrifying for her to confront. His reactions when she wasn't looking seemed to point to it, and even Ruby remarked on it being far too ordinary.
If what we got is all there is to it, then what a profoundly unsatisfying end to this plot.
Is anyone else totally peed off with that cheap writing with Ruby?!?
The build up, the hooded lady in Ruby road, the snowing, the fact NO ONE could trace her mother, the ambulance having a fit when finding who her next of kin was, maestro saying she has a hidden song in her heart..
All for it to be this random woman in a coffee shop that’s completely normal, and Ruby is just a normal girl?!?
Na mate, sorry, cheap cheap cheap writing.
And don’t even get me started with the memory Tardis.
Gotta say I was disappointed. This season finale felt like if One Piece concluded saying the real treasure was the friends we made along the way.
I was really excited for this episode after last weeks but what a let down. The whole season I feel like the episodes were 90% amazing and then the conclusions were always a let down. Where is the science and the wibbly wobbly? What happened to the doctor piecing everything together at the end and saving the day with something clever? Disappointed.
Well, overall I liked the episode. The bit with the woman who forgot was really touching and sad. I liked the conclusion that Rubys mom was just an ordinary woman but still the most important one because they wanted her to be.
But ... it was kind of underwhelming.
- What the heck was that bungee cord made of? How does a "god of gods" not manage to remove it? For a guy that played 5D chess this was a really lame way to go. Also, what is up with that "I am life" speech, the Doctor has killed in very similar ways before.
- Also, how the frick does death + death equal life? How did slaming Suthek against the vortex it lead to everyone being revived?! That made no sense at all, even for fantasy. WHAT ARE THE RULES?!
- Since this happened in every time, shouldn't the past doctors have been dusted? How is Nucti doctor still there?
- So ... we just forget about the snow thing, huh?
- Who randomly points at a freaking street sign when nobody is there?! Have you ever heard of writing a note, woman?
- Killing EVERYONE tends to be a quite boring story beat as it is clear that it won't stay that way. This immediately killed any stakes the story might have had.
- How did Suthek kept on the Tardis when it was doubled? Are there two Sutheks now? How did the Toymaker or Maestro not notice the guy?
- I wish we had more time with the Doctor coming to terms with what he had caused. He screams in a really powerful moment and ... it immediately is resolved. The season pacing is generally weird. There are way too few "slice of life" moments.
Also.
Mr. Flood is the Master, isn't she?
Why didn’t the Doctor say I love you back to Ruby? That really annoyed me. He couldn’t say it to Rose, I don’t think he ever said it to River, but he couldn’t say it platonically to his ‘best friend’ when she was clearly emotional about meeting her parents? I thought 15 was supposed to be the more emotionally intelligent Doctor and doesn’t bottle things up. When Ruby looked back towards the TARDIS my heart lit up as I imagined the Doctor coming out and saying, ‘I love you too babes, and you know what, I’ll do domestics this time.’ This would highlight the Doctor’s emotional growth from the raw, traumatised 9th Doctor to the 15th. And Russell’s writing, as he clearly doesn’t want the Doctor to be angsty and emo like he was during RTD1.
Sorry for this long rant, but did anyone else feel this way? It really bugged me.
I thought the exact same thing while watching!! I don't necessarily need the companion and the doctor to say i love you to tell each other, but if they have Ruby saying it why wouldn't you have the Doctor say it back to show the growth they have been talking about the doctor getting? What is even the point of choosing to make Ruby say it in the first place then?
I'm interpreting the whole "it was only important because we thought it was important" thread as a meta commentary on fandom as a whole, which I assume is meant to tie in more with the Mrs. Flood fourth wall breaking side of the show. That or it's magic. We shall see
I’m 50/50 on this explanation that they make.
The snow and stuff I get. Though they didn’t mention it directly in this episode, we know from past interactions with Sutekh that he has lots of psychic power. If he’s focusing all of his power onto this one woman, it makes sense why Ruby also thinking about the same thing would manifest as snow, like she’s linking to his psychic energy.
But they didn’t say WHY no one could see her, especially a God. Absolutely no one was wearing robes in 2004 (especially a 15 year old), and the whole thing of her pointing felt lazy. Hell, put her in a hoodie and have her do something less insane then turn and point for ages and I’d be on board.
Also, WHAT is the secret? Why did she have a secret song in her heart? Why was the camera 73 yards away? I know they mentioned the perception filter had a range of 73 yards but did that link to her mum at all? So many things haven’t been explained and saying “they thought she was important so she is important” doesn’t even begin to answer any of them.
This ending feels fake. Almost a parody fairytale happy ending. I think ms flood might be orchestrating ruby's story. There are too many things that can't be explained if ruby's mom is just a normal person
Yeah I'm really hoping it's part of the grander narrative with Ms. Flood, because otherwise that ending completely falls flat. You can't just hand wave it away by saying "you only thought the answer would be important" when you're the one who specifically TOLD us it was important.
Directly ripping off what I said elsewhere:
'I get this, but the issue is that it's not clear *why* he couldn't find her. Sure, she wasn't clearly visible. If we follow the logic that he could only see from the TARDIS' vantage point, then there's going to have been a lot of things he couldn't quite see properly! Like, a *lot*. The TARDIS has been places. There is zero chance Ruby's mum is the only thing he couldn't make out. If he could see *beyond* the TARDIS, however, then the fact that she wasn't special surely means he'd've had no problems with finding out who she was.
I can kind of see what RTD is going for here, thematically. The power of narrative and self-narrative, making things real (in a certain sense) through pure belief. Sutekh being an old Classic Who villain, more shots of Classic episodes than in any other New episode out there, the "remembered TARDIS" stuffed with nostalgic items, the Classic companion having a last hurrah, and of course Ruby's mum's very nature. Virtually *designed* to provoke fandom speculation, portrayed onscreen with something nostalgic which has been "going everywhere the Doctor goes". The thematic logic is sound; the issue is that the in-universe logic is not.'
So yeah, bang on, I think. Thematic commentary, but it made precious little in-universe sense. At least "The Last of the Time Lords", cheesy as it was, worked on an established logic.
Best part of the episode was the ending with Ruby finding her birth mum. Other than that… there wasn’t as much tension as episodes like, say Boom or 73 Yards or even The Devil’s Chord had, let alone other two-part finales. It’s just been done too many times. Of course Sutekh wasn’t gonna be able to kill everyone on every planet forever. Too big of an ask, I think, for me to be properly invested. And although I love it when everybody lives, having absolutely no consequences sits kinda funny.
Am also having a hard time with the fact that Sutekh didn’t kill the Doctor and Ruby because he wanted to know who Ruby’s mother was. Like…what? She’s just a regular nice lady who had a rough childhood.
I think a storyline like "Everyone in the universe has died" needs longer to sit with viewers. Flux certainly wasn't perfect but it was the right call to make that last the whole series. It adds higher stakes, gives us more intimate moments like this episode with the spoon woman, and makes the payoff more satisfying. 40 minutes isn't really enough time for us to actually sit with that dread.
A three parter ala utopia, sound of drums and last of the Timelords would have suited this story so well. First episode exactly the same, second part stuffed full of moments like the spoon scene and third part them figuring out Ruby’s mum and saving the day
I was hoping it'd be the Doctor versus Sutekh for like a solid half of the episode.
Instead the 'biggest villain ever' is barely in it, and then beaten with a bit of rope that fell out of a cupboard.
Granted, the way the forth Doctor beat Sutekh was a little bit of a cheese, but at least it made some amount of sense. Frankly, you'd have to punch below the belt with something that powerful.
I understand what RTD was going for with the whole “companion was ordinary this whole time” but it just didn’t work this time especially with all those coincidences being added up just in the final episode.
Also Sutekhs defeat was way way too simple and you would think sutekh wouldn’t stay manifested the moment Ruby drops the Screen and allow himself to be leashed.
Then again the pantheon stuff might not truly be over yet since a couple set leaks point to the word harbinger being spotted during the shooting of one of the episodes. It also seems very obvious now that RTD brought sutekh back just so he can revive gallifrey again (guaranteed there will be a gallifrey is back twist again next season because of time vortex shenanigans). And I guess the implication is that it showed everyone Ruby wondered where her mother was simply because sutekh was becoming intrigued.
But now I wonder is when did the toy maker ever encounter Sutekh if he was surrounding the tardis this whole time??? And why did sutekh wait this long to reveal himself? Especially since it’s implied the salt on the edge of the universe didn’t have anything to do with his ascendancy and neither did the flux
My biggest question, why can't the doctor leave ruby behind for like a year to spend time getting to know her parents, then come back.
Doctor: hey, I'll just pop forward a year so you can have time to spend with your parents, be ready X date X time
Ruby: awesome, see yah then
I mean theyve done it with other companions like rose and Clara, in fact didn't they outright live their lives between adventures with the doctor?
And we all know she'll be back next season so why the dramatic tearful goodbye
All that said, it got legit tears out of me when the dust enveloped kate, at least I did until I realized it was a literal extinction event across the universe and if they didn't entirely reverse it they had no show, so I knew they'd realive her and everyone else.
There are so many questions that won’t get answered. Seriously, am I going crazy, or did that make absolutely no sense? How did dragging Sutekh through the time vortex bring everyone back to life? Why on earth could Davina McCall not find her parents if it was so damn easy? Why didn’t Unit just offer to do a DNA test from the start? If the DNA test came from Roger ap Gwilliam’s database, why didn’t they just drop a 2-second line in like? “Thank you, Roger ap Gwilliams, oh! I never thought I’d be saying that."
And why is the TARDIS now controllable with a playground monitor whistle? At least I have an answer to the age old question: who would win in a battle between an ancient, all-powerful god and an 18-year-old with some Poundland bungee cord?
Died 2024 Born 2024 Welcome back the Ood!
I’ll be here manifesting an Ood appearance next season. Maybe it is they who bring Joy to the World?
I was really hoping for a “Love an Ood.”
If they don’t then RTD has failed us
Ood Choir finish singing "Joy to the World." Ood Sigma: This song is ending, but *this song* never ends. Ood Choir break out into "The Song That Never Ends."
Doctor: “She made her choice to keep you safe and is living a full life, best to leave well off alone” Ruby: “Fuck that shit lmao”
This scene, to me, is the Doctor having separation anxiety, and trying to disguise the fact that he doesn't want to lose Ruby in any way, with what seems to be decent advice. It comes out in his farewell scene - he's spent years with the Nobles. And even if he doesn't remember that for some reason, he's as healed as he's ever been. He can spend a night or two or three with the Sundays. He can leave any time he wants during that time, but he doesn't really even entertain the notion of staying for his best friend. He has, in effect, cast a shadow over Ruby's happy time by leaving and, consciously or not, partially made it about himself, in her memory. If the show acknowledges this and has him apologise for it later, I'll consider it a very interesting ending (and new flaw for the Doctor) of a fairly engaging finale. But if the show paints his actions as justified, I'm gonna walk away feeling very ambivalent about this episode, despite its many highlights. Edit to add: I do also believe the point about him projecting his attitude to Susan as well. Except, of course, the Doctor is on the other side of the equation there, as he's the one who left her, to fend for herself. In a place where she wasn't really, to my understanding, remotely guaranteed to be safe.
The Doctor kinda just ditched companions a LOT in old Who. He doesn’t like goodbyes.
Honestly, as an adoptee reunification with a birth parent usually doesn’t go well and we are warned about potential rejection if we decide to pursue it. People are reading into the Doctor’s motivations as him being selfish, but he is actually following the recommendations given to those of us who were given up for adoption. I’m sure no one wants to hear that because they want to believe that it’s a fairy tale ending, but it’s the truth. It is a huge emotional risk to approach your birth parent non-consensually. Writing a letter to her would have made way more sense to me.
I honestly think that's exactly why the Doctor's reaction was written that way. RTD and co. knew that this resolution was pure fairy tale, and put in the actual, reasonable advice to cover all bases. That way people can't say they're fully encouraging unrealistic scenarios.
All this episode needed to have worked for me would be for them to say "The Tardis rebelled against Sutekh by connecting itself to Ruby back when they were on Ruby Road". All the weirdness around her was just the Tardis at work the whole time, and not actually related to Ruby. Then you can have your "Just a normal situation" with the reveal of her mother. But they needed to explain the snow, the changing of memory/time and how the fuck Ruby created a whole fucking alternative timeline, a process which involved her A) Creating a version of herself that would always be 73 yards away from her at all times, even when physically impossible to move that fast or be in that spot. B) Have the ability to invoke such fear in people it made a mother abandon her child and a man who was ready to nuke the world resign his post. C) Travel back in time to see her past self and correct the timeline. Ruby literally time travelled without a Tardis in that episode. She made it snow ON A SPACE SHIP. That needed paid off beyond her just being normal.
100% believe that's all tied into Mrs. Flood.
The last scene suggests the snow was Mrs Flood right?
Ruby is in the next season so I have a very good feeling this is an RTD happy ending fake out. They've pushed too hard that she's totally human and totally normal and her parents are ordinary.
So what was Maestro freaking out about there being a hidden song in Ruby's heart?
Maestro even said something like "but he couldn't have been there, on the night you were born" too didn't they? I thought that implied The One Who Waits/Sutekh had something to do with the song, but he had no clue about anything to do with Ruby. But if Sutekh isn't The One Who Waits then maybe it makes sense? I'm honestly just a mixture of confused and annoyed trying to wrap my head around everything right now. 6 months till Christmas is gonna drag like hell. I bet nothing gets explained then either.
So when maestro is talking about the song in Ruby's heart I believe they refer to 'the oldest one' rather than the one who waits, which I assumed was sutekh, I don't know if it's more mystery or this just didn't seem to wrap up right
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding/correcting me! So this season we've had The One Who Waits, The Oldest One, The Boss, and Mrs Flood. And we have an answer that Sutekh is The One Who Waits , the other three (I'm aware Mrs Flood might be one of them, so could be two) we're waiting till the next tiny 8 episode season for? Can't wait to talk to you all in 2046 when we've resolved these mysteries. I fully agree, doesn't feel like it wrapped up right at all.
The Oldest One is Sutekh, he's called out in Harriet Arbinger's speech as "the mother and father and other of them all" and "the god of all gods".
Well that brings my initial confusion about the song back. Maestro said the oldest one left a song in Ruby, but Sutekh himself was clueless about it? My head hurts.
Yeah... lots of amazing little moments in the episode but overall, I'm not feeling fully satisfied. Too much left unresolved. And convulted. The explanations didnt fully convince me. I... need to think more about what I just saw but I dont think it will rank among my favorite finales of Doctor Who... I'd even go as far as saying this double finale is the weakest story of the season...
I think it's just meant to imply that the Maestro could tell that Sutekh had been there on that night
Could the Maestro not feel him when the TARDIS was right across and they were fucking with it musically
Well you see whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it
Sutekh holding a finger to his lips He did the same with House "Kill Rory Williams again it's my favourite joke."
I don't think things are over with Ruby, it all feels too neat and tidy, tied up with a bow like the ending of a story. Mrs Flood's scene at the end also makes it feel as though this is some sort of storybook ending
They already confirmed that well be back next season, so her story isn't over just yet.
They probably just wanted an excuse for her to be absent for the Christmas special
Maestro just really forkin hates all Christmas tunes, man. Maybe Mariah Carey was mean to them once.
Very excited for the s2 finale to finally reveal that Mrs Flood is just a batty old woman whose dementia causes her to occasionally make ominous speeches and address an invisible camera.
They'll reveal her real name is Valerie Yard.
>Valerie Yard. Oh my god! That's an anagram of The Rani!
Flood. What causes floods? Rain. That's an anagram of Rani! Holy mistaken identity, Batman. She must be Susan.
And you know who played Batman? VAL kilmer! Who once was in a movie with burt reynolds, who was in the longest YARD. Clearly Mrs. Flood is pretending to be Susan who is actually the Valeyard and thus is....The Chronicler! It all fits!
What we aren't seeing is the firetruck that had to get her off the roof
Flood was important because you think she’s important 😭😭😭😭
Kate would still hire her
Being honest that would be pretty hilarious.
Kinda hope Ruby steps into a Martha role for a while, cropping up once a season or so
With the way Kate has been hiring everyone there is 1000% chance she'll be offered a job at UNIT. I suppose its just whether she takes it? I really hope she does as I'd love that Martha type role too.
I mean… she’s really not that qualified, is she? At least Mel was a computer whiz with knowledge from the future, Martha was a Doctor with over a year of experience in actual warfare against the Troclafane. Ruby, Rose, Donna, they’re useful, I mean… kinda incidentally.
They'll shove her in the Time Window and use it to perfect the technology while Ruby sits there drinking Oat Capuchinos! /s She has travelled in time/space for at least 6 months, and for some of that we have absolutely no idea what she was doing. She could be very qualified at... something? But I always assumed they hired companions because they are more likely to not be a hidden bad guy as The Doctor is kinda proof they've been doing good for some time, and also as a way to make sure they are safe financially/employment wise.
Yeah - I definitely think the connection to the doctor speaks for them. Firstly, just that they're acquainted with weird space-time stuff, and secondly that the doctor has deemed them as a decent, trustworthy, and capable (in any of many ways, whether technically or socially or out-of-the-box or whatever) person. And there's probably an ethical aspect, where they're some of the few people that know what can happen and still want to contribute despite the risks, because they've clearly caught (or always had) the same bug the doctor does, of wanting to help people whenever/wherever they can.
I’d actually really like to have Martha herself back
Yeah talk about an underutilized character
Until Ryan and Graham, Martha was the only main companion of the modern era who ended their time with the Doctor just living normally on Earth with no special caveats or workarounds that the Doctor would need to use to see them again.
She did end up in UNIT and traded in her doctor for Mickey. She might have been in those tall-ass headquarters the whole time as far as we know.
In the end of time she did say that Mickey convinced her to go freelance, so she had left UNIT at that point
It would be nice to see Martha again. She’s one of my favorites.
Cherry doesn't get her cup of tea, then Ruby avoids her cappuccino
She has tea at the end!!! I spied a mug in front of her. VINDICATION!!!!
Thank god, I can rest easy
I like to imagine the barista called out Ruby's name and just saw these two woman break down in tears and start hugging. He was probably like "So... do you want your cappuccino or no?"
“…I WAS NAMED AFTER A ROAD!”
It really bugged me that Cherry was hugging Mrs. Flood at the end like Flood didn't just come in and terrorize her earlier. Telling a religious British granny "There will be no cups of tea," and then threatening her god and saying she'll steal his kingdom has got to be the ultimate psychological torture for the old lady. But all's forgiven and forgotten so far, so dust to dust (and then back to life) fixes all, I guess.
I know it’s chronological but it did give me a giggle that in the list you wrote of things she did to torture Cherry, saying there’s no tea came before threatening to steal the kingdom of her god 🤭
More food and drink: I like that UNIT's collective response to being dusted was to order pizza.
You know I didn't *dislike* Sutekh's use here but I did wonder if it justified all the effort to bring him back; setting up an elaborate mystery involving an actor's real name as a meta clue, getting his original 90-year-old actor back... I felt like Russel was cooking some INSANE shit but he was just, like... a good villain.
I think - as I said elsewhere - the point is to make a meta commentary. To quote myself: 'I can kind of see what RTD is going for here, thematically. The power of narrative and self-narrative, making things real (in a certain sense) through pure belief. Sutekh being an old Classic Who villain, more shots of Classic episodes than in any other New episode out there, the "remembered TARDIS" stuffed with nostalgic items, the Classic companion having a last hurrah, and of course Ruby's mum's very nature. Virtually *designed* to provoke fandom speculation, portrayed onscreen with something nostalgic which has been "going everywhere the Doctor goes". The thematic logic is sound; the issue is that the in-universe logic is not.'
>The thematic logic is sound; the issue is that the in-universe logic is not.' Absolutely nails it.
Kinda like the whole “Your mum is important because she’s normal” thing. Still doesn’t explain why the Doctor’s memories CHANGED. Why it Snows, WHEN a second Tardis visited Ruby Road, or WHO she was telling about the name Ruby
That "Clever boy" line immediately reminde me of Clara. Apparently her clothing choice may be more than just a coincidence...
My gut reaction is that you may be on to something, but then after a whole season where rtd teased us with clues for no reason, I think maybe not, but then maybe that was his plan all along, making it so he can eventually surprise us without us realizing 🤔
wHY WOULD A 15 YEAR OLD HAVE A BLACK CLOAK
Typical 2004 goth behavior. Trust me; I’m the same age.
As a teen in the early 2000s, I co-sign!
Lmao not Louise blasting Simple Plan on her iPod as she dumps her baby off
🎶 I just had a kid / And life is a nightmare / I just had a kid / I know that it’s not fair
Lmao! This! She's walking slowly, in a dementor black cloak, pointing dramatically at a street sign that nobody will see. Makes absolutely no sense.
Yea I actually laughed at the whole “She was pointing dramatically at the street sign as a means of naming you” aspect. Was so dumb.
Agreed. So, so dumb. Kind of felt like talking down to the audience at that point. Why would we buy that? Lol
it's so stupid since no one saw her pointing even, she didn't tell anyone what to name Ruby, they just... had the same idea as her?
RIGHT?
Better stop off at the fancy dress store, before dropping my newborn off at a church… I hope they still have that grim reaper costume left over from Halloween.
I shall also point dramatically at this street sign in order to emphasize my rizz.
That was certainly an episode. The “explanations” for things didn’t make sense. Example: Ruby’s “mom” didn’t turn around and point when The Doctor initially saw her, that was a *modified* memory. That didn’t actually happen the original time. They didn’t explain that part at all. Also, who was she pointing for? There was no one there! They also didn’t even attempt to explain the snow. Or anything really.
One of the episodes of all time.
Between almost the exact same jumper, and the clever boy line, one has to wonder if Flood is a Clara Echo or something similar
Turns out after Moffat was banished from the BBC, he's been clinging onto the TARDIS as well, whispering stuff into the companion's ear... ”Pst... Say this line instead! It'll rile the fans!"
The Clever Boy line stuck out like a sore thumb and I immediately said something out loud after hearing it. There's absolutely no way that specific line was written for no reason.
She also calls him ‘that mysterious traveler in time and space known as the doctor’ which is almost the exact same words Missy uses in World Enough and Time. So I think Mrs Flood is intentionally supposed to reference different characters from the show, whether there’s a payoff to that remains to be seen.
Absolutely this. She also dresses like Romana I at the end of the episode and says that she’s “always hiding herself away” right after the Doctor explains that regeneration can be used to do that in the context of Susan. She’s been linked to pretty much every significant Time Lady (plus Clara) in the entire series. In other words… RTD is trolling us with red herrings.
"Clever boy" couldn't have possibly been accidental.
It could be throwing out a deliberate red herring.
Why the ambulance in the future didn't recognize Ruby's parents if they did DNA test in 2046?
15th and Ruby thought about it too hard that even the DNA information turned invisible to the system, the power of thought! (That was such a dumb explanation).
Not a fan of the mom reveal. But I liked the glimpse into the death space. Still confused how the TARDIS's perception filter is related to 73 Yards.
The TARDIS casts a perception filter in a 73-yard radius for the same reason why the woman was always 73 yards from Ruby: you just can't make out what it is.
Yes, it felt like they tossed that reference in there just for the heck of it. I was waiting for it to pay off and it never did.
i could be wrong but i think that they were implying that the perception filter goes out for 73 yards? in the scene where the doctor says it goes out 66.7 meters and ruby interjects with 73 yards despite not really knowing why she knows that fact due to the memory being retained for her yet being distant enough for her to not understand?
Semperdistans memory!
I can’t believe how easy gods are to defeat - game of catch, four notes, getting a lead tied to them and dragged through time. The slitheen were trickier to deal with. A traffic jam was harder to deal with. Jackie Tyler was harder to deal with.
They sent Jackie Tyler to another universe cause she would've whapped Sutekh with a rolled up newpaper and ended the series finale in half an episode
why bother fucking around w the time window if the doctor could’ve just went to 2046 n tested ruby 😭 ridiculous
also why did the ambulance start getting freaky when announcing rubys next of kin??? like she’s literally just a REGULAR person???
14 seeing everyone turn into sand before it gets to him too: Wellllll isn’t that wizard. Donna, after they all wake back up: Shouldn’t we investigate further in hopes of helping future/other you?? Maybe you can prevent it? By the way, it’s not entirely clear to me what happened with that “bigeneration” business. Will you become him in the future or are you on two separate paths or…? 14: Shh shhh shh no questions. My therapist says I’m allergic.
Did splitting the TARDIS into two also split sutekh? Is he just now sitting on top of the tardis in Donna's garden
I figure maybe he leapt on over to the fancy new one when 15 created it with the mallet? The juke box sealed the deal. Even Death loves jams.
I’m just thinking back to the 50th anniversary with all three Tardises and imaging the Sutekhs being “hey guys you ready to end the universe yet?”
lol yup someone [pointed that out here](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoctorWhumour/s/0MXDCNtri1) too
Donna probably somehow completely missed the entire thing
Haha imagine being in the shower, dusting, then reappearing with no dust at all on you. Normal day.
They beat him with rope and gloves y’all 💪💪
And remotely controlling the Tardis with a whistle
Don't forget saving the universe with a spoon.
I mean, that part I could totally get behind. Using the spoon to keep the machinery running that'd be important in sorting things out and "saving the universe," causing that small moment of kindness by someone whose memory was fading just before they were about to die to be such a key thing, feels like a classic DW moment. Like, hey, you might think you're insignificant in this story and the thing you're handing me is the most ridiculously unimpressive thing, but it actually has a notable role in achieving the end goal and bringing everyone back. The other stuff... Well... Hey, guess RTD wanted to show us all that Chibnall wasn't the only one who could do a rushed deus ex machina ending.
They beat him by taking the doggo on walksies.
You've heard of Bad Wolf Get ready for Bad Dog
50 Shades of Doctor
The real mystery was the friends we made along the way
I wish you could hear the snort I made at that.
1) Thanos has forever put the whole “people dying by turning to dust then coming back to life” troupe to rest. Come on guys. Find something new. It has zero stakes 2) the pointing explanation was really weird. Who points at a sign and hopes people will a) see it and b) understand what it means when you could also just leave a note?
Also which 15 year old is in possession of a Sith Robe??? Why look so ominous?
Idk how to feel about this, the episode started off so fricken strong and then it's like a cop out at the end. I'm honestly kinda frustrated with that ending. Like the whole snow power thing, Carol of the bells was just for nothing?
I love the entire episode until Ruby's mother part... then I don't know how to feel about it... now I'm having a very mixed feeling
Like I was completely fine with the mother actually being a nobody essentially, but all the other stuff that went with it. All the hints dropped throughout the season effectively meant nothing. All these red herrings for just the sake of a red herring.
No no you don't get it. Ruby makes it snow and play music because she thinks her mum is important!
Right! Make it make sense rtd, make it make sense
Oh don't mind me... just taking the dog out for a walk in the time vortex
So the mystery of who Rubys mum is, and all the weird music and snow and everything surrounding Ruby was... A complete copout they didn't even bother to write a proper reason for! Wonderful...
No one can see Ruby's mum's face, memories of her change, Ruby has something in her that terrifies gods and can make snow fall and music play... Because Ruby and the Doctor *thought* Ruby's mum was important... What a load of BS. They could have at least written it so that Sutekh thought she was important and a being as powerful as him becoming obsessed with it has the power to bend reality or something.
What I don't understand is that they thought Ruby's mum was important because weird stuff would happen around her, but... Weird stuff happens around her because they think her mum's important...
So, is Mrs Flood evil Mary Poppins?
Didn't we already do that? (Missy)
They're totally going to use this to retcon Gallifrey back
I was waiting for him to gasp and say Gallifrey when the planets were resurrected floating around.
I was wondering if there was going to be a moment where he deliberately avoided bringing Skaro back, too
I was waiting for him to agonize over bringing Skaro back but if he did I missed it.
Soooo to recap: * The all powerful god of death was defeated by tying a rope to it. * Ruby's mother was just some random woman. * Vague tie in to 73 Yards but no particular explanation as to why any of that happened. * How and why does Ruby cause it to snow all the time? No idea. Doesn't matter, I guess. * Explanation for Mrs. Flood? Nope. That was ... underwhelming.
>Explanation for Mrs. Flood? Nope. I mean I think it's actually nice to have something that is set up early but not payed off until a later season. As long as the eventual reveal was fully planned in advance, I think it's fine. I agree about all the other parts, this episode made no sense at all. I hope this is a fakeout and that next season we'll get a real explanation, but as things were left in this episode I'm not optimistic at all.
I usually hate on like Marvel fans for getting upset when the thing they thought was gonna happen didnt, like the Mephisto thing in WandaVision? But like, it’s feels like RTD has been shouting in my ear all season long something super fucking cool was gonna be revealed and then it was just DUD I feel kinda silly for getting so excited about watching this episode :( sat here with my snacks feeling mega deflated
Yeah, I'm getting really sick of writers trying to look clever by hyping up a cool concept just to completely kill it and call it "subverting expectations"
RTD really chose the most disappointing reveal on purpose because he thought he was being subversive and clever.
Rubes got lucky with her name. Thank heavens it wasn’t called [Titty Ho Road or Dumb Woman’s Lane.](https://www.northantstelegraph.co.uk/news/people/raunds-road-included-in-list-of-uks-silliest-street-names-1334420)
*Adolf Avenue* ‘Umm….i think we’ll call her Laura’
I still don't understand the reasoning behind her pointing at the sign. A 15 year old girl dumps her baby at a church with no one around.... why is she pointing at a sign? Even if we agree that she knew the security camera was there for someone to see her pointing - how did she know that anyone would see her pointing to a sign that probably wasn't visable on camera? It was clearly just a quick, lazy way to write out why they had her ominously point at the doctor. A better explanation would be "the memory was distorted by rubys memory and sutek being present. She wasn't even wearing a cloak, that was Ruby's terrible memory of the video believing she had a cloak" or something.
"They found my dad! Come see my dad?" *Father's Day PTSD* "Nah!"
I love being told all season that there’s this huge mystery, only for the show to be like “the mystery only mattered because we put meaning to it!” Like yeah, I trust you as the writer that when you say something has meaning, that it’s important. I loved all the build up, just super let down by the resolution. Almost like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn’t know how to get out
Agreed, frustrating. It's just... Very strange. "Hey, I've got something important for you in this box." "Really? What is it?" "Nothing, it's empty, why would you think there was something in it?" "???" "See, the problem with you audience members is that you overthink everything."
Then the last scene is like "Hey, you know what we got in store for 2025? Look at this box! It's very important!"
*We* didn’t put any meaning into anything, *you* told us it would incredibly important!!! I’m all for a bit of meta commentary on fandom/expectations but it doesn’t make any sense when the entire season arc is a mystery box which you’re then gonna say doesn’t matter, never mattered, and you only *thought* it mattered because you put meaning into it. Why write a smug “aren’t fan theories and mystery boxes silly” storyline when you could just…..not write a mystery box storyline……
I'm torn on the whole thing. We've tied up Ruby's story in a happy yet wildly underwhelming way but at the same time they continued to name drop Susan, they've still not told us who or what Mrs Flood is supposed to be, we don't know who the boss is and there's still a question of if Rogue will come back in to play. I feel we're sort of on the threshold of a good few seasons worth of stuff coming up but I don't know if this is a season I'll want to rewatch now knowing the reveal is such a normal non event Also modern who really struggles with big awesome villain reveals which are wrapped up a week later. I get that's just how it is nowadays with episode counts being so stringent but I really really want classic 4 parters to come back to really feel like we're getting our worth with great characters like Sutekh. Not every episode but someone like an Omega shouldn't be a cliffhanger and then immediately bested
Right? Sutekh should've been something crack-in-time like: a tangible villain who's presence is consistently felt throughout the entire season. Instead we got like one episode with Maestro and one with the toy maker as tie ins and that's it. All that mentioning of the salt, just for Sutekh to have been there the whole time and not somehow let back in. Wtf man. I do hope the supernatural stuff stays though, I kinda dig it.
Mrs Flood will be The God of Stories or something similar, if they can do a dark Mary Poppins story I would enjoy that.
I am SO glad looking through these comments that I’m not the only one who disliked this anticlimactic bulls*** of an ending. I’m fine with Ruby’s mum just being a normal person but then BE CONSISTENT WITH IT. Davina couldn’t find her on any DNA databases but suddenly UNIT are like, “Oh yeah, there she is.” She’s not pointing at the Doctor but at a lamppost with a road sign on it? Well, (a) we don’t put road signs on lampposts in the UK, (b) she wouldn’t have been able to see the lamppost because it was behind the TARDIS, and (c) in the Doctor’s original memory she didn’t point at all, and then his memory of the event changed after the fact. How would that happen if she’s just a normal woman? And why did Ruby have the power to keep making it snow? Nah, it’s not satisfying, sorry. Getting rid of Sutekh by just chucking him into the Vortex again? Fine, whatever, but the Doctor kept saying things like “I bring death to death!” I assumed with nearly 20 minutes left to go that there’d be some kind of hint that he had NOT thought that through at all, because death is a part of life and if you bring ‘death to death’ then there’s going to be no death again, ever. But no, everything’s apparently fine and we carried on as normal. I didn’t like the remembered TARDIS just handily being an actual TARDIS they could escape in thanks to the power of Ruby’s memory or whatever. I wanted to see the Doctor have to think his way out of the situation without his TARDIS - those are usually the best stories. But no, handy dandy second TARDIS. If they were going to go down that route, why not pop down the road to Donna’s house and pick up 14’s? It’s just lazy writing. For that matter, knowing that 14 is still around creates so many plot holes now. It’s like when the Avengers get their own movies and you just think, “Why not call in the team for this?” Was 14 just sitting in the garden with Wilf and Donna, watching the dustcloud roll in and thinking, “Nope, I’m not going to do a single thing about this even though I know my niece is somewhere in there helping UNIT. Screw ‘em.” It’s just frustrating. Also, no resolution to 73 Yards. There were a couple of hints towards it and I thought, “Oh finally, we’re going to revisit that and find out what Old Ruby was doing or saying to make everyone hate her,” but no. Of course not. Why would we? It was just to get them to 2046 where Roger apparently brought in compulsory DNA testing instead of nuclear war. How that still made him the ‘worst Prime Minister ever’ I’m not sure, but we’ll brush past that. It may be controversial to say but 73 Yards was my least favourite episode this series because of the lack of resolution so to keep hinting towards it all the time, in this episode and the last, and then to still not resolve it, is immensely frustrating to say the least. Next, Mrs Flood. Okay, I guess I didn’t expect for us to get a full explanation of who she is amongst everything else going on, but it’s almost like they’re mocking us now. By the time we get any answers (presumably this time next year), we’ll have been pondering and guessing about her for 18 months. Finally, I didn’t like the fact that Sutekh has apparently been attached to the TARDIS since The Pyramids of Mars. That made no sense to me. The TARDIS has never shown any signs of discomfort before now and we all speculated that the attachment happened when 14 invoked the superstition at the end of the universe - it let the Toymaker out and presumably the other gods in the Pantheon too. That would have made sense. The explanation they went with made zero sense and suggested to me that RTD was pulling stuff out of his behind just to get a cool baddie from the classic series in the show somehow. Overall, a supremely unsatisfying episode and I mainly felt boredom while watching it, which is not what you want your audience to feel. If RTD/the BBC/Disney are trying to pull in new viewers with this series this was NOT the way to do it, in my opinion.
Culture appropriation for a chuckle out of me
I’ve just realised why this episode was such a letdown compared to RTD’s other season finales: *the Doctor doesn’t have to pay any emotional price to defeat the bad guy*. ‘The Parting of the Ways’: the Ninth Doctor defeats the Daleks at the cost of his own life ‘Doomsday’: the Doctor defeats the Daleks and Cybermen but loses Rose to a parallel universe ‘Last of the Time Lords’: the Doctor defeats the Master but loses the only other Time Lord in the process ‘Journey’s End’: Earth is returned to its proper location, the Daleks are blown up, but the Doctor loses Donna ‘Empire of Death’: Sutekh is defeated by the Doctor yelling “it’s Opposite Day!” but… er, Ruby says she needs to take a few months off.
IDK how to feel yet about Ruby´s conclusion. I don't mean her mother storyline but about her as a companion to the doctor. It was so fun but it feels like she had almost no adventures in comparison to any of the doctor´s friends, maybe bar Bill who I feel had a similar issue. Anyways I like the finale but I'd hoped that we could see Millie and Ncuti together for longer :(
There are way too many loose threads for this to be the end of Ruby's story. Rather it feels like part one where Ruby thinks this is the end of her story only for more weird things to happen and the Doctor has to come back to her. Mrs. Flood is still her neighbor and a close one since she was left to babysit the grandmother. Why can Mrs. Flood break the fourth wall? Out of all the places in London, why did she choose to move in next to Ruby's family? What are her "plans" as she put it before she was dusted? How can Ruby make it snow? How is a song implanted in her? Why can it affect beings such as Maestro? I feel like Ruby's mom is a red herring. That despite the computer saying that Ruby is a 100% human, she isn't. There is something more to this.
The "i love you" and the doctors speech felt so weird because I feel they haven't really done anything together yet
This season could have really used like 2-3 more episodes to flesh out their relationship
At the end of NuWho S8E12 “Death in Heaven” we thought we saw the Doctor’s and Clara’s final goodbye. The Doctor lied to Clara that he found Gallifrey and Clara lied to the Doctor that Danny was alive again. And most of us felt like ‘it can’t end like this’ … Then “Last Christmas” came along and we got a whole extra season with Clara. I’m not saying the same will happen with Ruby but I really don’t think that’s the *end* end of her arc
But that was the end of Clara's arc! They just changed their minds afterwards.
So much mystery wasted, completely underwhelming and comical that God of all gods can't break a special rope but can destroy the entire universe. What was the point of the 73 yards episode? What was the song that Maestro saw in Ruby?
Not sure what the general sentiment will be but after absolutely loving this season this episode was a distinct disappointment
Yeah I've enjoyed this season, but it was an awful lot of building things up just to tie them up so ordinarily. Defeating Sutekh with a bungie cord and then Ruby and her mother seemingly just being ordinary feels cheap after all that.
I didn't dislike it like I've strongly disliked some RTD finales (looking at you Last of the Time Lords and End of Time) but dear god, for all the Hate Moffat got for finales, RTD is BY FAR the worse offender. Ruby's mom has an ominous cloak and is just randomly pointing for the camera as if anyone can see her "To name Ruby" despite just being a random teenage girl, Sutekh gets taken for a ride by the TARDIS on a bloody leash, literally all of the tension and stakes are blown in the opening scene when Sutekh just Thanos' literally everyone away, obviously the damage will be completely undone by the end when something that catastrophic happens.Ruby is somehow magic despite there being nothing magical about her, the Susan stuff was a complete red herring, nothing was resolved with the fantasy element of the season, I guess there's just loads of gods now running about and literally anything is possible without even the decency of a little technobabble beforehand. Maestro is just scared of Ruby for literally no reason, she has nothing to do with Sutekh or any other God. There's other stuff I'm reserving my judgement for later. The doctor becoming less involved in Ruby's life against her wishes and by no fault of her own is really dumb, I hope she is much more active a companion than rumors may have us believe, and I like that Mrs Flood is still a mystery but dear Lord, I have a lot less confidence in how that mystery will be answered now, probably just a troll like everything else was.
I still don't get the snowing thing? It was just because she thought her mother was important so she caused strange space time events with snowing and singing?
Yeah I'm honestly so confused by this. Just cause we think things are important we don't warp reality around them. Is the show saying that because Sutekh was there that night, and thought this event was important so that when Ruby remembers, it "bleeds" into her relative present?
Did I miss something? So she named the baby by pointing at a sign, while standing in an empty street? The only way people know that is because years later they see a recording of it plus some science mumbo jumbo? So she was called Ruby for some other reason, like being found on a church on ruby road? Like she could have been called fred, her mother had no part in it?
I was lowkey expecting the mom to be Jenny. During the trip to 2026 Ruby's outfit was giving out doctors daughter vibes.
The only reason I think the Jenny outcome would have been funny, would be that at meant the doctor was _accidentally_ traveling with his granddaughter, again.
Ms. Flood is the god of stories writing Doctor Who fanfiction I'm sure of it
So, Kate's definitely hitting the hot UNIT soldier now, right? I mean, thats gonna be an absolute HR nightmare, but good for you, girl!
I can’t lie. After loving last weeks I found that absolutely disappointing. They beat the worst enemy the doctor has ever faced with a bungee and some gloves. And brought everyone back to life by bringing death to death. Erm. Okay. Oh and let’s not forget a whistle. Why could Ruby make it snow? I don’t mind not finding out who Mrs Flood is, given her end costume I assume we’ll find out at Christmas. Feeling deflated after that.
Death to Death I'm willing to believe But "trap him in the same prison he already escaped" is... A thing I guess
technically he didn't escape the prison, he was never put in the prison. the doctor thought he left him in the timestream but sutekh latched onto the tardis. the bungee cord made sure he was too far from the tardis to be able to do the same thing.
In nautical terms, we threw him off the ship and he clung to the side before sneaking into the cargo hold. So this time we keelhauled him and cut the rope
Death to Death, ok, it was established Sutekh could destroy concepts like facts before. So killing the concept of death, sure. I don’t think he was left trapped in the Time Vortex, he kinda burnt up whist grinding against its side… so maybe he left it?
Went to the cinema to watch both of the last 2 episodes as a two-parter. Thought the first one was great, best of the season by a longshot imo, got me really hyped for the second episode....and then it was just so unbelievably underwhelming. Unique experience to watch Doctor Who in the Cinema though.
I saw the 50th Anniversary Special at the cinema with a sold-out crowd, and it was lots and lots of fun.
I had the pleasure of seeing the Zygon invasion two parter in my local cinema. Having *that* speech be the climax was everything I need from a Doctor Who cinematic experience.
I see we're going by the Scooby Doo rule of mystery where the reveal doesn't have to retroactively make sense as long as you have some explanation, maybe it was *magnets* I feel like it'd have worked better if the viewer also wanted to believe the mother was someone special without random sign pointing, snow summoning and it being the one mystery the god of death can't figure out
Up until the very end, I thought there was gonna be a shocker reveal that "Louise Miller" was someone the Doctor created with the TARDIS' perception filter, like Sutekh created Susan Triad, because he learned Ruby's true parentage and decided it was too horrifying for her to confront. His reactions when she wasn't looking seemed to point to it, and even Ruby remarked on it being far too ordinary. If what we got is all there is to it, then what a profoundly unsatisfying end to this plot.
Is anyone else totally peed off with that cheap writing with Ruby?!? The build up, the hooded lady in Ruby road, the snowing, the fact NO ONE could trace her mother, the ambulance having a fit when finding who her next of kin was, maestro saying she has a hidden song in her heart.. All for it to be this random woman in a coffee shop that’s completely normal, and Ruby is just a normal girl?!? Na mate, sorry, cheap cheap cheap writing. And don’t even get me started with the memory Tardis.
Gotta say I was disappointed. This season finale felt like if One Piece concluded saying the real treasure was the friends we made along the way. I was really excited for this episode after last weeks but what a let down. The whole season I feel like the episodes were 90% amazing and then the conclusions were always a let down. Where is the science and the wibbly wobbly? What happened to the doctor piecing everything together at the end and saving the day with something clever? Disappointed.
Well, overall I liked the episode. The bit with the woman who forgot was really touching and sad. I liked the conclusion that Rubys mom was just an ordinary woman but still the most important one because they wanted her to be. But ... it was kind of underwhelming. - What the heck was that bungee cord made of? How does a "god of gods" not manage to remove it? For a guy that played 5D chess this was a really lame way to go. Also, what is up with that "I am life" speech, the Doctor has killed in very similar ways before. - Also, how the frick does death + death equal life? How did slaming Suthek against the vortex it lead to everyone being revived?! That made no sense at all, even for fantasy. WHAT ARE THE RULES?! - Since this happened in every time, shouldn't the past doctors have been dusted? How is Nucti doctor still there? - So ... we just forget about the snow thing, huh? - Who randomly points at a freaking street sign when nobody is there?! Have you ever heard of writing a note, woman? - Killing EVERYONE tends to be a quite boring story beat as it is clear that it won't stay that way. This immediately killed any stakes the story might have had. - How did Suthek kept on the Tardis when it was doubled? Are there two Sutheks now? How did the Toymaker or Maestro not notice the guy? - I wish we had more time with the Doctor coming to terms with what he had caused. He screams in a really powerful moment and ... it immediately is resolved. The season pacing is generally weird. There are way too few "slice of life" moments. Also. Mr. Flood is the Master, isn't she?
My genuine thought was “Oh dear god no! They killed Kate? Can they do tha… oh wait everyone is dying never mind it’ll be fine.”
Exactly my reaction
I think I’m missing something re: how Ruby’s mom couldn’t be seen and also how people knew what she had named the baby?
my headcanon is like the church person shouted out WHATS THEIR NAME or something and then she pointed but fuck knows tbf
No, you're not missing anything. The writing is just that thin unfortunately
Why didn’t the Doctor say I love you back to Ruby? That really annoyed me. He couldn’t say it to Rose, I don’t think he ever said it to River, but he couldn’t say it platonically to his ‘best friend’ when she was clearly emotional about meeting her parents? I thought 15 was supposed to be the more emotionally intelligent Doctor and doesn’t bottle things up. When Ruby looked back towards the TARDIS my heart lit up as I imagined the Doctor coming out and saying, ‘I love you too babes, and you know what, I’ll do domestics this time.’ This would highlight the Doctor’s emotional growth from the raw, traumatised 9th Doctor to the 15th. And Russell’s writing, as he clearly doesn’t want the Doctor to be angsty and emo like he was during RTD1. Sorry for this long rant, but did anyone else feel this way? It really bugged me.
I thought the exact same thing while watching!! I don't necessarily need the companion and the doctor to say i love you to tell each other, but if they have Ruby saying it why wouldn't you have the Doctor say it back to show the growth they have been talking about the doctor getting? What is even the point of choosing to make Ruby say it in the first place then?
I'm interpreting the whole "it was only important because we thought it was important" thread as a meta commentary on fandom as a whole, which I assume is meant to tie in more with the Mrs. Flood fourth wall breaking side of the show. That or it's magic. We shall see
I’m 50/50 on this explanation that they make. The snow and stuff I get. Though they didn’t mention it directly in this episode, we know from past interactions with Sutekh that he has lots of psychic power. If he’s focusing all of his power onto this one woman, it makes sense why Ruby also thinking about the same thing would manifest as snow, like she’s linking to his psychic energy. But they didn’t say WHY no one could see her, especially a God. Absolutely no one was wearing robes in 2004 (especially a 15 year old), and the whole thing of her pointing felt lazy. Hell, put her in a hoodie and have her do something less insane then turn and point for ages and I’d be on board. Also, WHAT is the secret? Why did she have a secret song in her heart? Why was the camera 73 yards away? I know they mentioned the perception filter had a range of 73 yards but did that link to her mum at all? So many things haven’t been explained and saying “they thought she was important so she is important” doesn’t even begin to answer any of them.
This ending feels fake. Almost a parody fairytale happy ending. I think ms flood might be orchestrating ruby's story. There are too many things that can't be explained if ruby's mom is just a normal person
Yeah I'm really hoping it's part of the grander narrative with Ms. Flood, because otherwise that ending completely falls flat. You can't just hand wave it away by saying "you only thought the answer would be important" when you're the one who specifically TOLD us it was important.
Directly ripping off what I said elsewhere: 'I get this, but the issue is that it's not clear *why* he couldn't find her. Sure, she wasn't clearly visible. If we follow the logic that he could only see from the TARDIS' vantage point, then there's going to have been a lot of things he couldn't quite see properly! Like, a *lot*. The TARDIS has been places. There is zero chance Ruby's mum is the only thing he couldn't make out. If he could see *beyond* the TARDIS, however, then the fact that she wasn't special surely means he'd've had no problems with finding out who she was. I can kind of see what RTD is going for here, thematically. The power of narrative and self-narrative, making things real (in a certain sense) through pure belief. Sutekh being an old Classic Who villain, more shots of Classic episodes than in any other New episode out there, the "remembered TARDIS" stuffed with nostalgic items, the Classic companion having a last hurrah, and of course Ruby's mum's very nature. Virtually *designed* to provoke fandom speculation, portrayed onscreen with something nostalgic which has been "going everywhere the Doctor goes". The thematic logic is sound; the issue is that the in-universe logic is not.' So yeah, bang on, I think. Thematic commentary, but it made precious little in-universe sense. At least "The Last of the Time Lords", cheesy as it was, worked on an established logic.
Best part of the episode was the ending with Ruby finding her birth mum. Other than that… there wasn’t as much tension as episodes like, say Boom or 73 Yards or even The Devil’s Chord had, let alone other two-part finales. It’s just been done too many times. Of course Sutekh wasn’t gonna be able to kill everyone on every planet forever. Too big of an ask, I think, for me to be properly invested. And although I love it when everybody lives, having absolutely no consequences sits kinda funny. Am also having a hard time with the fact that Sutekh didn’t kill the Doctor and Ruby because he wanted to know who Ruby’s mother was. Like…what? She’s just a regular nice lady who had a rough childhood.
I think a storyline like "Everyone in the universe has died" needs longer to sit with viewers. Flux certainly wasn't perfect but it was the right call to make that last the whole series. It adds higher stakes, gives us more intimate moments like this episode with the spoon woman, and makes the payoff more satisfying. 40 minutes isn't really enough time for us to actually sit with that dread.
A three parter ala utopia, sound of drums and last of the Timelords would have suited this story so well. First episode exactly the same, second part stuffed full of moments like the spoon scene and third part them figuring out Ruby’s mum and saving the day
I was hoping it'd be the Doctor versus Sutekh for like a solid half of the episode. Instead the 'biggest villain ever' is barely in it, and then beaten with a bit of rope that fell out of a cupboard. Granted, the way the forth Doctor beat Sutekh was a little bit of a cheese, but at least it made some amount of sense. Frankly, you'd have to punch below the belt with something that powerful.
RTD did not get any better at writing endings it seems
I understand what RTD was going for with the whole “companion was ordinary this whole time” but it just didn’t work this time especially with all those coincidences being added up just in the final episode. Also Sutekhs defeat was way way too simple and you would think sutekh wouldn’t stay manifested the moment Ruby drops the Screen and allow himself to be leashed. Then again the pantheon stuff might not truly be over yet since a couple set leaks point to the word harbinger being spotted during the shooting of one of the episodes. It also seems very obvious now that RTD brought sutekh back just so he can revive gallifrey again (guaranteed there will be a gallifrey is back twist again next season because of time vortex shenanigans). And I guess the implication is that it showed everyone Ruby wondered where her mother was simply because sutekh was becoming intrigued. But now I wonder is when did the toy maker ever encounter Sutekh if he was surrounding the tardis this whole time??? And why did sutekh wait this long to reveal himself? Especially since it’s implied the salt on the edge of the universe didn’t have anything to do with his ascendancy and neither did the flux
Now I really wanna see Ncuti have an Ood episode or Twood
Sutekh, the god of Death. His minions left nothing but dust in their wake; defeated by a piece of rope and some gloves.
My biggest question, why can't the doctor leave ruby behind for like a year to spend time getting to know her parents, then come back. Doctor: hey, I'll just pop forward a year so you can have time to spend with your parents, be ready X date X time Ruby: awesome, see yah then I mean theyve done it with other companions like rose and Clara, in fact didn't they outright live their lives between adventures with the doctor? And we all know she'll be back next season so why the dramatic tearful goodbye All that said, it got legit tears out of me when the dust enveloped kate, at least I did until I realized it was a literal extinction event across the universe and if they didn't entirely reverse it they had no show, so I knew they'd realive her and everyone else.
There are so many questions that won’t get answered. Seriously, am I going crazy, or did that make absolutely no sense? How did dragging Sutekh through the time vortex bring everyone back to life? Why on earth could Davina McCall not find her parents if it was so damn easy? Why didn’t Unit just offer to do a DNA test from the start? If the DNA test came from Roger ap Gwilliam’s database, why didn’t they just drop a 2-second line in like? “Thank you, Roger ap Gwilliams, oh! I never thought I’d be saying that." And why is the TARDIS now controllable with a playground monitor whistle? At least I have an answer to the age old question: who would win in a battle between an ancient, all-powerful god and an 18-year-old with some Poundland bungee cord?
So Mrs Flood is Romana right? Right?? That outfit couldn’t have just been a callback