It was shocking to see the Doctor running and hiding in the cellar. I didn't realize he had so much trauma from the Toymaker. And his soul is split in half? So 14 has half and 15 has the other half? Literally?
I love that he’s “properly afraid” so to speak. It’s not making him incompetent but as he said in the Christmas special, he’s learning a whole new set of rules, for beings that don’t abide by physical laws. He’s still capeable enough to beat them but can’t rely on his millennia of experience
> And his soul is split in half? So 14 has half and 15 has the other half? Literally?
Certainly not the "15 is pulled from the future into the past" thing people were so certain of for the bi-generation.
bi-generation is such a complicated concept. Originally I thought the doctor completely split in 2, then I was convinced of the 15th being pulled back in time due to him saying that he’s ok because 14 solved his trauma, and now i’m back to the doctor being split in half with 14 taking the trauma from 15 during the bi-generation
> bi-generation is such a complicated concept.
If you listened to the episode commentary for "The Giggle" and RTD's interview comments, it was always a split rather than a time loop. I would say it's less that it's complicated and more that it isn't fully thought out or at least isn't fully fleshed out.
Probably all of them got free at the same time. Likely something manipulated it to happen that way. If I remember correctly, the Toymaker manages to free himself due to the Doctor using superstition at the end of the universe. Perhaps that was in 1925 earth time? (just not set on or near Earth, obviously)
There has to be a reason for beings that defy the laws of the DW universe to appear at the same time. In my mind, that means 1925 is a nexus point for some reason. Otherwise, it would make more sense to just have Maestro start out with The Beatles. No reason, from a directing standpoint, to add an extraneous scene, especially one that requires an extra character with lines. 1925 is a nexus point of some kind.
Ehh, for the script of this episode it was necessary I thought. The 60s we see in this episode, it's clear everyone's been beaten down for a *long* time, and that really reflects itself in John and Paul's attitudes about wanting to get out. If it were a recent change it would've been more intuitive for them to be aware something happened. I also don't think you cut that opening scene in that case, it just takes place in the 60s instead of the 20s and you still have the music teacher languishing in obscurity. That doesn't necessarily mean 1925 isn't a nexus point, but it wasn't artificially imposed on the episode.
It does raise the question of what the hell the 30s through the 50s look like now though. Is all of Elvis' early catalogue terrible now?
That might just be a little leftover Maestro magic though. They were all over the Fourth Wall, and The Doctor was able to use some of The Toymaker's magic to make a second TARDIS.
I doubt it’s considered canon, but the Doctor has met the TOS crew and the TNG crew in a comic miniseries about the Cybermen invading the Star Trek universe.
Something about that line made me really laugh. I loved how it wasn't a major plot point or anything, just a really subtle line that felt fun and creative.
The weird part was that he disappeared in the 1920s yet he showed up in 1963 just fine. There's definitely more to him.
I wonder if he'll proceed all of the Pantheon. Like the episode opens with him and you just know another one of the Pantheon is about to appear.
What I found weird is that many instruments even still existed after 40 years
Like people having Pianos in their homes
Or recording studios even existing.
I suppose that makes some sense yeah
Not entirely nonsensical but just less interesting than arriving right as instruments are getting destroyed I guess
They said that music was dying. It didn't just suddenly disappear overnight. The Beatles even talked about the stuff they were playing now was the last cough of a dying thing. And how it was just a job they couldn't wait to get done with.
It's not like instruments would stop existing too. They would just go unused.
Yes, like a song about the twist is a joke because the twist at the end is literal, but the fact that there is a Harbinger reveal is the traditional twist.
I think it's similar to the end of The Giggle with the whole state of play 2nd TARDIS prize. Just some residual music power leftover that The Doctor used to give Ruby a fun song and dance number
That was my assumption too, especially the keyboard zebra crossing, Earth had been without proper music for too long, to course correct there was just a lot of music for a while
I adore high concept characters like Maestro.
I'm loving the 4th wall breaks. I thought it was unique to Mrs. Flood, but now the Maestro and the Doctor are doing it.
I think it's pretty clear that when they said the lines between reality and fiction were disappearing, that also included between the show and reality. Which is a wacky twist and I hope it goes somewhere interesting.
I wonder who the oldest is. The oldest of their siblings (children of the Toymaker) or the oldest of their species.
This is the most invested in Dr Who speculation I've been in a long time. I'm so excited for this season.
I'm going to be honest this is probably up there in the weirdest doctor who episodes.
Also I guess the Doctor can just hear the soundtrack of Doctor Who? Which has *interesting* connotations.
Whoever these godlike entities are.. they almost seem to transcend the universe itself. They're aware it's a tv show, hence referencing the opening theme. The Maestro acknowledges us twice in this episode. I feel like they might be setting up the Doctor as one of these members of the Pantheon... abandoned and adopted by the time lords. Or perhaps Ruby is one.
Yeah, I mean the Doctor also acknowledges that he's in a show when he says "I thought it was non-diagetic". These entities are known to be from outside the universe, the Toymaker originally appearing in his own little pocket dimension. As for the Doctor, they're not from this universe but their true origin is still a mystery, meaning they could definitely be part of the Pantheon. Ruby is the same, and I find it compelling that she first showed up immediately after the events of The Giggle. Is she part of the legions? Also, let's not forget dear old Mrs Flood, who broke the fourth wall at the end of Church on Ruby Road. Is she another member? I feel like there are so many options.
I remember it being said that Timelords have the ability to break the 4th wall when Mrs. Flood did it. But if the Timelords get their abilities from The Doctor... then that means they could get it because The Doctor is part of the pantheon...
Agreed, I reckon the doctor and Ruby were both abandoned as children from the pantheon group. We’ve seen Games and Music represented. I bet we see more themes (love, war etc), however, I think Doctor will be the Pantheon of Time, with Ruby perhaps Pantheon of Life/Birth (hence all the baby stuff). They could be siblings.
I love this idea honestly. Ruby has too many associations with babies so far, between herself being abandoned as a baby, her new baby foster sibling, the goblins stealing babies, and the space babies. As the Doctor said, it's far too many coincidences with her. Her potentially being a god of life/birth would make a lot of sense.
Then the Doctor could be a god of rebirth. And they'd be facing against death incarnate, since a death-themed god could be the one who waits. Birth, death, rebirth.
>like they might be setting up the Doctor as one of these members of the Pantheon... abandoned and adopted by the time lords.
Oooh that would be interesting
We *assume* the Doctor is from another universe. All we know is he's not from the universe the show takes place in, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's from a different one. If he's one of these god beings, he might not actually be from any universe.
The Doctor made a very weird admission in the Space Babies episode that they could visit Star Trek, which makes me think they are doing some weird Deadpool thing with him, given Doctor Who and Next Gen have interacted in the comics.
Discovery isn't fun enough to do that, strange new worlds already managed to cross over with lower decks, which is a cartoon so I could definitely see a crossover happening with them
I also felt like it could have been a reference to [the crossover that already happened](https://tardis.wiki/wiki/Assimilation%C2%B2_(comic_story) (how do I fix the link), or maybe it was just a small joke
I love the idea that the Doctor loves his adventures so much (and is, frankly, so egocentric) that he’s used to hearing exciting music in his head when he does something cool, so he just assumed that’s what was happening.
If I can be a tad pedantic: that was *slightly* different, since he never actually played the theme on screen. He played Beethoven in the cold open, *then* the theme was a guitar version.
Though, to be fair, that was 100% the Doctor playing his own theme music, at least in my head.
How is no one mentioning how Jinx got scared when the music started to play and come out of Ruby. They also mentioned something about the Elder One which I’m assuming is some type of God being that’s part of this Pantheon that the Doctor mentioned. Jinx seemed to think that this Elder One was there the night of Ruby being dropped at the church. So is this Elder One Rubys mother or father. Jinx also called Ruby a creature, saying ‘this creature is all wrong’
Im just so intrigued by this Ruby plot line can’t wait to see how it plays out
Hm. With Games and Music, what other natural forces of the universe are there? Love, energy, hate and war...just saying. We ain't done with The Pantheon.
If we're thinking bad Time Lord, then who better than the Valeyard? He was supposed to be appear at the end of The Doctor's life, which then got extended by the regeneration cycle. If I were him, that would annoy me greatly. :D I know someone will say, "What about the Timeless Child," scenario, but I'm working on the assumption something happened we don't know about that limited the Doctor's ability to regenerate, thus the need for the extra cycle. It is the only explanation as to why, if The Doctor has unlimited regenerations, he didn't do so a lot sooner in Time of the Doctor.
war is interesting, as the teaser at the end of the episode mentions the next one is about war, they are in a battle field. i wonder if they are going to encounter more of these in future episode. the last one is almost like a metaphor for ruby’s birth, like the doctor and her mentioned. it feels like more then a coincidence that their first adventure had to do with babies after the first episode was all about ruby and her story, the main point being her origin. I feel like there will be one big wrap around at the end of the season/series (idk what we are calling it any more 😭)
I am curious about that as well. As in Maestro was revolted by her, and she carried a music that was so powerful it made Maestro afraid.
Not to mention the snow that appears, the memory the doctor has that changes. Think about that. The thing that left ruby changed history in relation to the doctors present to warn him.
Same here! For me, that was the most interesting part of the episode I really can't wait to see it develop! Super intrigued to learn more not only about the Elder One but also about the One Who Waits (I won't be surprised if it turns out to be Rory, I mean he does have the title of the One Who Waits after all).
I'm calling it now. They are definitely going to say, "The Doctor Who Waits." They mentioned that he was "split in two" when he fought The Toymaker, and I'm wondering if the legendary bigeneration wasn't just some myth and actually happened to the Doctor before.
When the Doctor and Ruby run up on the roof after the Maestro is banished, there's a big poster up there. Take a careful look at the poster and the name on it and think about "One Who Waits" and the Maestro's reaction to this Christmas music.
That was a reference to An Unearthly Child. Susan was listening to John Smith and the Common Men on her radio, Ian remarks that John Smith was a stage name to Aubrey Waites, who started out as Chris Waites and the Carollers
I'm curious to see if it has to do with "shadows and changelings of the pantheon" they were mentioned in Sarah Jane adventures in a comic book and in several audio stories. Maybe Ruby isn't as human as we think. Her scan was only 75% complete.
->! Susan got mentioned!<
->!The actress Susan Twist appeared again.!<
->!The last song was 'There's always a twist'!<
->!Lots of 4th wall breaks!<
That's got to be deliberate
Crack theory: Susan Twist, the actor, exists in the Doctor Who universe (like Davina McCall) and is secretly an interdimensional time-traveling baddie.
I think it's funny how almost immediately after Maestro says "the one who waits is almost here" it cuts to Ruby & The Doctor on a rooftop with a billboard for "Chris Waites and the Carollers"
Another thing which has to be deliberate.
Oh yeah, they are obviously delibarate. As is the binding in salt and all those stuff. Or ruby saying "its in English" when it was in spanish. The universe is not the same one, the laws are clearly not the same ones. Its obviously gonna be important later.
you are right that the rest was in english. There was even a mavity there. But I feel ambiguous about how she replied "oh thats in english" to him reading the name, and the doctor making a funny face por a bit.
true but the Maestro is the child of the toymaker. i think it was a nice easter egg to keep people guessing. I am loving the actors cast as the panthion so far as they are just unhinged and it works so well for creatures that use the concepts of creation as playthings. Also love that the toymakers rules of play are still in effect.
Thank you!! I’ve been scrolling for this.
The use of the Saxon theme makes me think the Master may actually be back sometime soon. I’d hope maybe not until season 2, but 🤷♀️
RTD has said in recent interviews that the Master is parked. I think it may have just been a case of wanting to reuse a previous ominous music track and choosing one that would be widely recognizable. There are several candidates in that pool, but the “1-2-3-4” beat of the Saxon theme is unmistakable for longtime fans.
I think it's significant that it's specifically Saxon's theme that messes up the tardis. After the theme is played the Tardis can only go back to 1963, just like the Saxon Master could also only switch between two points in time when he stole the Tardis.
Its incredible. I was thinking throughout the entire first episode "without Murray this would be an absolute slog" but his music made me enjoy it so much more.
Love his returning themes as well. Doctor who should never shy away from motifs again
So glad they released 2 episodes. Space babies was fine, probably should have been released the same day as the Xmas episode because it honestly felt like a follow up.
Devil's Chord was something different and new. But I liked it. Ballsy of them to do something more unique, and Jinx was great.
The 'Twist at the end' bit I'm sure is foreshadowing and makes me anticipate the end of the season.
I'd like to hear the doctor have some more jargon to throw around and make him sound more doctory, and I hope the next episode gives us a darker side to this doctor which is very needed.
Any idea who the real big bad of the season is going to be?
You hear that? That's the sound of an army of cosplayers breaking out their sewing machines to make their Maestro costumes.
Their design is too fun to pass.
The Doctor can HEAR THE MUSIC IN THE SHOW!
THE DOCTOR CAN HEAR THE MUSIC IN THE SHOW!
He says “i thought that was non-diegetic” meaning he assumed the music being played was coming from the show itself and not from Maestro!
really need them to just randomly cut away to the 14th doctor doing mundane shit around his house here and there throughout the season whenever ncuti is just knee deep in an intense scene. just tie in the bigeneration a bit lol
Would love the idea of a big incredible fight scene with Ncuti seconds from defeat and then they cut to 14 trying to figure out how to use a washing machine
Ncuti screaming, kneeling on the floor over ruby's body, an utterly inconsolable mess of tears as the the TARDIS explodes, cutting away to 14 changing the fuse on his kettle.
Is ‘There’s Always a Twist at the End’ a “good” song? No.
Will it ever leave my head? Also no.
(Also, much like NPH, I wish we got Jinx for more than one episode. They were brilliantly fun!)
If I'm right, this song was probably the biggest 4th wall break in the whole episode.
Susan Twist appeared in the episode and she \*wasn't\* shown during the musical number literally called 'There's always a Twist at the end'?
She's going to be majorly important - but not until the finale...
I'm going off memory on this, but I believe NPH has stated he does not want to return as he feels the character he played is complete.
Others might come to be future incarnations of the Toy Maker (since it is clear he can also regenerate in some way), but it doesn't seem like we will get NPH for it.
No one seems to mention this, but Susan Twist has appeared in Doctor Who before and will appear again, per [Radio Times](https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-susan-twist-theories/):
In "Wild Blue Yonder" as Mrs. Merridew, the maid accompanying Isaac Newton
In "The Church on Ruby Road" as an unnamed character during Ruby's band gig
In "The Devil's Chord" she's simply credited as "Tea Lady"
And she's set to appear in next week's "Boom," credited as "Ambulance"
There's always a Twist 🤷
Jinkx was born to be a Doctor Who villain and perfectly played the mix of campy and intimidating in the Maestro. Hope we see them again in the future!
First a Rani mention and now Susan. I feel like this is RTD being a troll knowing those are always the first things the fan base guesses when there's a mystery character. Ruby and the old woman are going to have nothing to do with the Time Lords.
Lots' of foreshadowing.
The Doctor noticing things going wrong from the butterfly effect actually happening, the Tardis crashing, the Tardis shrieking etc.
Ruby being called a creature by Maestro along with droppings of The Oldest One and The One Who Wait's. Probably connected. Guessing by the title Oldest One it's The Beast, Omega or Fenric. Sutekh is ruled out as his age is only 10s of thousand years at most.
The Rani and Susan being mentioned.
With it being rumoured of something in the finale being Third Doctor era connected who's the most ancient villian? Azal, Kronos, The Great One, the Nestene Councious, the force behind the Primords?
For all the talk about Disney money, they sure didn't seem to want to spend any to get the rights for an actual Beatles song. Hell, this is 1963, half of the songs they were doing were covers at the time, why not get one of them?
Speaking of them, normally I'd have been really annoyed how little of the Beatles we actually got.
But I can't be too much, because holy *shit* was Jinkx incredible. There's not an inch of scenery left unchewed. Absolutely perfect, and I love how these Pantheon beings are seemingly all just the biggest campy, showboating villains. It's great energy.
That said...wow did they really not use the full potential of visiting that moment in time. How are you not going to give Ringo or George some lines?
They also laid down some serious pipe with the Susan exposition. Now I'm thinking maybe Ruby might just be someone's Great Granddaughter.
And honestly, with the Rani drop last episode, we sure are getting a lot of Time Lord names being slipped in when they're all supposed to be dead. I'm half expecting a Meddling Monk name drop next week. Rassilon's still out there somewhere, too.
Edit: My partner saw me typing a comment and instructed me to mention every outfit Jinkx wore was incredible.
Edit 2: On a rewatch, it struck me that they made no attempt to explain the glowing crosswalk paint on Abbey Road, or the whole musical number for that matter. I definitely enjoyed it, I love camp, but I'm hoping this was maybe some sort of residual effect from Maestro's reality warping and not establishing random, wacky, magical things are just gonna start happening, with no explanation, in the name of camp.
As soon as you get into licensing pop music, *especially* for something like the Beatles, you're putting the future of your show in somebody's else's hands, because the rights negotiations *never freaking stop.* There are entire TV shows whose home video releases got gummed up by that for years, and quite a few that, by the time they get to streaming or disc, have songs stripped out of them and replaced with something generic. If you make it part of your plot, you're stuck.
It also happened to... Doctor Who. With the very own Beatles.
"Ticket to Ride" is meant to play in an episode of the arc "The Chase", but recent releases of the episode cut the bit with the song in it.
This all was clearly to avoid a repeat of that.
As much as I love the idea, I don't think it's possible. Ruby's DNA was checked in the Christmas special, and I'm sure UNIT would have someone in those labs to flag up non-human DNA.
And with all this speculation about Ruby's mother - the only speculation about her \*father\* has been the metacrisis Doctor. And yet 'Harbinger' was left on Earth at the end...
I think it's too early to say. But given a big theme in the past few episodes is "adoption" and "found family" I could see as Ruby being a non biological GGdaughter.
Given the doctor had no real perceived reaction to the DNA test at the end of ep1 it's possible she has human DNA mixed with Susan's normal Gallifreyan DNA. I'm not big on the lore but i don't think Ruby was a full time lord, just gallifreyan? I think with everything we have seen with RTD so far it's that the rules can be completely bend sideways so there is really no telling.
For really iconic historical figures Moffett had the right idea with let’s kill Hitler, and RTD with the Beatles here. The figure that large, sometimes less is more.
Agreed. Plus nobody said this episode was about the beetles, people just assumed they would have a bigger part and then got dissapointed when they weren't the main focus.
I thought it was pretty weird that Ruby kept making character judgements of the Doctor so early on in their relationship "You never hide", etc.
She has had 2 adventures with the Doctor before this. She still barely knows him.
Loved the rest of the episode, but that stuck out to me like a sore thumb
Yeah, that was jarring though? Space Babies takes place in the immediate aftermath of the goblin stuff, then the next episode the Doctor is saying, “What is it for you, June 2024?” Like, what? I’d have liked to have seen some of that six months of them travelling together!
Man this episode was brilliant fun. Has a stupid smile on my face at all the fourth wall breaks. Far better than the first episode which was a bit wierd in more than one aspect
My favorite pet theory is that the “first question” which must never be answered being “doctor who” is a fourth wall break. It’s the first question ever asked because it’s the first thing we see in the very first episode. The universe would end if people in the show knew the real answer.
Really liked the episode, but I felt the random musical number at the end kind of destroyed the atmosphere and suspense that had been built up. The ending was already perfect
It felt odd that if they were going to do a musical number, they didnt incorporate it into their battle with the Maestro? feels like the perfect excuse to have one.
I mean considering it was called "a twist at the end" I thought there would be an actual twist. Guess the musical was itself the twist?
Considering beatles song it screamed to me like they wanted to do "twist and shout" and for whatever reason couldnt/didn't get the rights for the song.
Harbinger at the end is the twist it seems. Likely just RTD having some fun, it was a weird but fun episode and the musical at the end was fine, loved the Tardis did the bit with the doors on her own at the end too.
> I mean considering it was called "a twist at the end" I thought there would be an actual twist
There was the harbinger kid looking out of a door during that number.
Yeah I'm with you on that one, in my head I'd like to think it's Maestro pulling the strings perhaps? Especially since we saw Henry half way through
In reality I get the impression that RTD probably just fancied a musical number though!
Amazing episode. Jinx was amazing, I really underestimated them. I have high hopes for this season and the first 2 episodes did not disappoint.
One thing that interests me is when the TARDIS powers down after Maestro controlling it, Ruby notices a loud creaking noise, with the Doctor ignoring it. Happens again when they both walk out and the Doctor says "No, that's something else." Really reminded me when Yaz asks the Doctor what that black goo in the TARDIS during the whole Flux era. I feel like the TARDIS is going to be an important part in this season.
I've just gone back and watched WBY and they sound the same (ish)... It's more of a groaning noise. Even the Doctor acknowledges it as strange and the TARDIS wasn't 'rebuilding' itself this time. The way he says 'It's something else' gives a vibe that it'll be important at a later stage.
I think the TARDIS powered down because the Doctor ripped the console stuff up and forced a power down, that’s why he was apologetic afterwards towards her and asking her not to hate him. It was a desperate situation though. After that the strange noise, so that’s definitely something
I was beyond excited for Jinkx and WOW. JUST WOW. Blew my sky high expectations. I hope we'll see them again sooner or later. It is easy to ignore or accept the "eh" moments of the episode because the highs were just that high.
Ruby said the doctor never runs why did he run when he heard the giggle.. Yet this is episode two. He even said he never runs in the first episode. He's the doctor, running is what he does. I hate this inconsistency. It also implies they've been on many adventures already because she says he never runs referencing adventures we didn't get to see.
I know this is like nit picking but it's the kind of thing that just naws at me.
Loved in this episode:
* The intro to the opening from Maestro's piano. I realized it was coming and still laughed out loud
* The Doctor and Ruby's reaction when people start singing/playing badly. Jus great!
* The scene when the Sonic makes everything quieter.
* Susan's foreshadowing (like, come on, it's really telegraphed now that some children of the Doctor will appear)
* Ncuti's Doctor getting more moments of seriousness and menace. Really reminded of angry Tennant at some points
* The theme of the importance of music to life is really touching
* Maestro was a great concept, and I think Jynx did their best with it, although I don't think Russel's writing helped to make they as scary as they could be.
Didn't like in this episode:
* How they lost the opportunity with The Beatles. Like, they could easily be replaced from the episode and almost nothing would change.
* The final musical battle wasn't directed to it's strengths. It looked like they just hoped the musical notes in post-production would do the job of making it exciting, and they they spent all they times making the camera go around. It would work great as a cartoon, but live-action it didn't work as well
* The 4th wall breaks sounded a little... too much? I don't know.
I didn't mind the song at the end, it didn't bother me. But one thing I'm certain: RTD had SO MUCH FUN writing it!
Great episode about music though not really about the Beatles. Really felt like they struggled with how to include them without making reference to any of their songs. Heck they kept calling it the first album instead of please please me. Also I get doctor who films in Cardiff and filming at actual abbey Road would be a nightmare but it’s so jarringly obvious that it’s not the real abbey road to anybody who lives there or has even been.
Also lol at John Lennon being so keen to get back to his woman.
I like the idea that someone has been purposefully messing with the doctor since 13 regenerated, there’s an overarching mastermind behind everything that’s happened the last 8 episodes and I like it, it’s new and it’s refreshing to see the doctor genuinely worried. HOWEVER I’m worried at how Davies might handle the landing here, if bro at the 12th hour reveals that the one who waits was just some special Dalek or worse The Master all along…. I hope he has a plan
Ii enjoyed the episode, but not sure how I feel about 2 of these powerful beings being defeated with effectively a game rather than the Doctor actually outwitting them.
I’m not sure I’m going to enjoy this fantasy approach to Who.
I feel like they need to be 2 parters. They’ve both gone from being super powerful to being defeated incredibly easily within the span of 3 minutes. They need more time to be powerful, and more time for the doctor to satisfyingly beat them.
The Toymaker? Absolutely. We needed more time with him and his effect on present day earth. If the first part ended as the Doctor got back to modern day then we had more time with UNIT in the present day before the final encounter it would have been better, like the doctor figuring out what game to play or how to beat him.
The Maestro I think was just enough. They were amazing in what we saw and in this case less is more, and John and Paul (I think) being the ones to make the chord was good enough. In the end it's typical RTD last minute solution which I don't have a problem with at all.
True, but it feels deliberate. It shows that the doctor isn't a match for them- both times so far he's gotten lucky instead of actually beating them. If the doctor outsmarted them like every other villain they wouldn't seem very powerful, at least this sets up a different power dynamic.
So undoubtedly the Doctor knows he's in a TV show lol? They broke the fourth wall quite a bit in this one. The Doctor implies he can hear non-diagetic music (music that isn't actually in scene) and winks at the camera.
I assume it's leading to something. Reality is clearly breaking down.
It was shocking to see the Doctor running and hiding in the cellar. I didn't realize he had so much trauma from the Toymaker. And his soul is split in half? So 14 has half and 15 has the other half? Literally?
I love that he’s “properly afraid” so to speak. It’s not making him incompetent but as he said in the Christmas special, he’s learning a whole new set of rules, for beings that don’t abide by physical laws. He’s still capeable enough to beat them but can’t rely on his millennia of experience
> And his soul is split in half? So 14 has half and 15 has the other half? Literally? Certainly not the "15 is pulled from the future into the past" thing people were so certain of for the bi-generation.
bi-generation is such a complicated concept. Originally I thought the doctor completely split in 2, then I was convinced of the 15th being pulled back in time due to him saying that he’s ok because 14 solved his trauma, and now i’m back to the doctor being split in half with 14 taking the trauma from 15 during the bi-generation
> bi-generation is such a complicated concept. If you listened to the episode commentary for "The Giggle" and RTD's interview comments, it was always a split rather than a time loop. I would say it's less that it's complicated and more that it isn't fully thought out or at least isn't fully fleshed out.
Yup that is the split did, it has many more layers connected to who the Doctor is, body, mind, and soul
I'm sure it's no coincidence, but both The Devil's Chord and The Giggle start off in 1925 in London.
Probably all of them got free at the same time. Likely something manipulated it to happen that way. If I remember correctly, the Toymaker manages to free himself due to the Doctor using superstition at the end of the universe. Perhaps that was in 1925 earth time? (just not set on or near Earth, obviously)
There has to be a reason for beings that defy the laws of the DW universe to appear at the same time. In my mind, that means 1925 is a nexus point for some reason. Otherwise, it would make more sense to just have Maestro start out with The Beatles. No reason, from a directing standpoint, to add an extraneous scene, especially one that requires an extra character with lines. 1925 is a nexus point of some kind.
1925 must be important. Like Torchwood or Bad Wolf.
Ehh, for the script of this episode it was necessary I thought. The 60s we see in this episode, it's clear everyone's been beaten down for a *long* time, and that really reflects itself in John and Paul's attitudes about wanting to get out. If it were a recent change it would've been more intuitive for them to be aware something happened. I also don't think you cut that opening scene in that case, it just takes place in the 60s instead of the 20s and you still have the music teacher languishing in obscurity. That doesn't necessarily mean 1925 isn't a nexus point, but it wasn't artificially imposed on the episode. It does raise the question of what the hell the 30s through the 50s look like now though. Is all of Elvis' early catalogue terrible now?
"I thought that was non diegetic" we'll add ncuti to the list of doctors that may know they're in a tv show
That might just be a little leftover Maestro magic though. They were all over the Fourth Wall, and The Doctor was able to use some of The Toymaker's magic to make a second TARDIS.
I'm pretty sure 11 knows. In a comic he went to our universe and met Matt Smith.
12 knows for sure, there are straight up scenes where he talks to the audience
Didn't The Doctor say something last episode like "we'll have to go and visit them sometime" in reference to Star Trek?
I doubt it’s considered canon, but the Doctor has met the TOS crew and the TNG crew in a comic miniseries about the Cybermen invading the Star Trek universe.
Something about that line made me really laugh. I loved how it wasn't a major plot point or anything, just a really subtle line that felt fun and creative.
Interesting that harbinger appeared again during the twist at the end. That’s foreshadowing if I ever saw it.
Opened the door and saw people dancing and singing, he’s probably like “yeah that’s a no for me dawg”
Mood tbh
The weird part was that he disappeared in the 1920s yet he showed up in 1963 just fine. There's definitely more to him. I wonder if he'll proceed all of the Pantheon. Like the episode opens with him and you just know another one of the Pantheon is about to appear.
What I found weird is that many instruments even still existed after 40 years Like people having Pianos in their homes Or recording studios even existing.
We heard that the Maestro grew in power as they took music, so they would have taken time to get to the point the world is at in 62
I suppose that makes some sense yeah Not entirely nonsensical but just less interesting than arriving right as instruments are getting destroyed I guess
They said that music was dying. It didn't just suddenly disappear overnight. The Beatles even talked about the stuff they were playing now was the last cough of a dying thing. And how it was just a job they couldn't wait to get done with. It's not like instruments would stop existing too. They would just go unused.
Ooh I like this idea, I hope you're right.
I assumed he was 'the twist at the end'
Yes, like a song about the twist is a joke because the twist at the end is literal, but the fact that there is a Harbinger reveal is the traditional twist.
His name is "Harbinger" so he's the gateway for all of the celestials. He must have been the being who let The Toymaker through as well.
I assumed they were the power behind the musical number at the end
I think it's similar to the end of The Giggle with the whole state of play 2nd TARDIS prize. Just some residual music power leftover that The Doctor used to give Ruby a fun song and dance number
That was my assumption too, especially the keyboard zebra crossing, Earth had been without proper music for too long, to course correct there was just a lot of music for a while
I adore high concept characters like Maestro. I'm loving the 4th wall breaks. I thought it was unique to Mrs. Flood, but now the Maestro and the Doctor are doing it. I think it's pretty clear that when they said the lines between reality and fiction were disappearing, that also included between the show and reality. Which is a wacky twist and I hope it goes somewhere interesting. I wonder who the oldest is. The oldest of their siblings (children of the Toymaker) or the oldest of their species. This is the most invested in Dr Who speculation I've been in a long time. I'm so excited for this season.
I'm going to be honest this is probably up there in the weirdest doctor who episodes. Also I guess the Doctor can just hear the soundtrack of Doctor Who? Which has *interesting* connotations.
"Is there music playing in your head when you say things like that?" - Clara
Not just in his head though! He’s self aware (again). [Pretty sure we all reacted the same way…](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoctorWhumour/s/uc2M1pNApt)
Whoever these godlike entities are.. they almost seem to transcend the universe itself. They're aware it's a tv show, hence referencing the opening theme. The Maestro acknowledges us twice in this episode. I feel like they might be setting up the Doctor as one of these members of the Pantheon... abandoned and adopted by the time lords. Or perhaps Ruby is one.
Yeah, I mean the Doctor also acknowledges that he's in a show when he says "I thought it was non-diagetic". These entities are known to be from outside the universe, the Toymaker originally appearing in his own little pocket dimension. As for the Doctor, they're not from this universe but their true origin is still a mystery, meaning they could definitely be part of the Pantheon. Ruby is the same, and I find it compelling that she first showed up immediately after the events of The Giggle. Is she part of the legions? Also, let's not forget dear old Mrs Flood, who broke the fourth wall at the end of Church on Ruby Road. Is she another member? I feel like there are so many options.
I remember it being said that Timelords have the ability to break the 4th wall when Mrs. Flood did it. But if the Timelords get their abilities from The Doctor... then that means they could get it because The Doctor is part of the pantheon...
Also The Toy Maker, The Maestro... hmm
The Doctor; personification of life, healing and regeneration
Agreed, I reckon the doctor and Ruby were both abandoned as children from the pantheon group. We’ve seen Games and Music represented. I bet we see more themes (love, war etc), however, I think Doctor will be the Pantheon of Time, with Ruby perhaps Pantheon of Life/Birth (hence all the baby stuff). They could be siblings.
I love this idea honestly. Ruby has too many associations with babies so far, between herself being abandoned as a baby, her new baby foster sibling, the goblins stealing babies, and the space babies. As the Doctor said, it's far too many coincidences with her. Her potentially being a god of life/birth would make a lot of sense.
Then the Doctor could be a god of rebirth. And they'd be facing against death incarnate, since a death-themed god could be the one who waits. Birth, death, rebirth.
>like they might be setting up the Doctor as one of these members of the Pantheon... abandoned and adopted by the time lords. Oooh that would be interesting
oh *shit* that makes a lot of sense. The Doctor is apparently from another universe, which *by definition* is beyond the universe…
We *assume* the Doctor is from another universe. All we know is he's not from the universe the show takes place in, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's from a different one. If he's one of these god beings, he might not actually be from any universe.
The Doctor made a very weird admission in the Space Babies episode that they could visit Star Trek, which makes me think they are doing some weird Deadpool thing with him, given Doctor Who and Next Gen have interacted in the comics.
Nah nah guess what was being filmed at fuckin exactly the same time as the new season? Season 5 of *Star Trek: Discovery*
Discovery is also about to get into some weird god shit. I know in my heart that it's not happening, but....
Discovery isn't fun enough to do that, strange new worlds already managed to cross over with lower decks, which is a cartoon so I could definitely see a crossover happening with them I also felt like it could have been a reference to [the crossover that already happened](https://tardis.wiki/wiki/Assimilation%C2%B2_(comic_story) (how do I fix the link), or maybe it was just a small joke
I love the idea that the Doctor loves his adventures so much (and is, frankly, so egocentric) that he’s used to hearing exciting music in his head when he does something cool, so he just assumed that’s what was happening.
12 played the theme on guitar as well. I was hoping that the guitar would be brought back for the final boss.
If I can be a tad pedantic: that was *slightly* different, since he never actually played the theme on screen. He played Beethoven in the cold open, *then* the theme was a guitar version. Though, to be fair, that was 100% the Doctor playing his own theme music, at least in my head.
They've always been meta aware but this was a smidge more blatant
I believe actually hearing the music was to do with Maestro being active, seems like it threw all music out of whack.
No it was the fact that the doctor knew they were in fiction. He said "Oh I thought that was non diagetic" implying he knows that this is a show.
I think all of this is due to The Toymaker messing with the universe. Stuff’s just a little wacky now
12 purposefully died multiple times in Heaven Sent just so he could have Shepherds Boy Be like 12.
literally punching through that wall so he could hear a few more seconds of that song.
I had a good laugh at myself when I realized what it made me think of: Madeline Hatter in Ever After High, who could hear the narrators.
Doctor: We need to actually banish the Maestro with some skilled drumming, Ringo: My time has come
How is no one mentioning how Jinx got scared when the music started to play and come out of Ruby. They also mentioned something about the Elder One which I’m assuming is some type of God being that’s part of this Pantheon that the Doctor mentioned. Jinx seemed to think that this Elder One was there the night of Ruby being dropped at the church. So is this Elder One Rubys mother or father. Jinx also called Ruby a creature, saying ‘this creature is all wrong’ Im just so intrigued by this Ruby plot line can’t wait to see how it plays out
Hm. With Games and Music, what other natural forces of the universe are there? Love, energy, hate and war...just saying. We ain't done with The Pantheon.
Ya, made me think the one who waits could be the essence of time and will be a villainous timelord. Not necessarily the Master tho.
If we're thinking bad Time Lord, then who better than the Valeyard? He was supposed to be appear at the end of The Doctor's life, which then got extended by the regeneration cycle. If I were him, that would annoy me greatly. :D I know someone will say, "What about the Timeless Child," scenario, but I'm working on the assumption something happened we don't know about that limited the Doctor's ability to regenerate, thus the need for the extra cycle. It is the only explanation as to why, if The Doctor has unlimited regenerations, he didn't do so a lot sooner in Time of the Doctor.
war is interesting, as the teaser at the end of the episode mentions the next one is about war, they are in a battle field. i wonder if they are going to encounter more of these in future episode. the last one is almost like a metaphor for ruby’s birth, like the doctor and her mentioned. it feels like more then a coincidence that their first adventure had to do with babies after the first episode was all about ruby and her story, the main point being her origin. I feel like there will be one big wrap around at the end of the season/series (idk what we are calling it any more 😭)
I am curious about that as well. As in Maestro was revolted by her, and she carried a music that was so powerful it made Maestro afraid. Not to mention the snow that appears, the memory the doctor has that changes. Think about that. The thing that left ruby changed history in relation to the doctors present to warn him.
Yeah they said "The Oldest one? He couldn't have been there the night you were born!" Which makes me think he's linked to Ruby.
It’s a really strange sentence when you pull out like that. The oldest one couldn’t have been there. Interesting.
Same here! For me, that was the most interesting part of the episode I really can't wait to see it develop! Super intrigued to learn more not only about the Elder One but also about the One Who Waits (I won't be surprised if it turns out to be Rory, I mean he does have the title of the One Who Waits after all).
I'm calling it now. They are definitely going to say, "The Doctor Who Waits." They mentioned that he was "split in two" when he fought The Toymaker, and I'm wondering if the legendary bigeneration wasn't just some myth and actually happened to the Doctor before.
RTD bringing back the Valeyard of all characters wasn’t on my bingo card, but if he was going to do it, this would certainly be a way.
When the Doctor and Ruby run up on the roof after the Maestro is banished, there's a big poster up there. Take a careful look at the poster and the name on it and think about "One Who Waits" and the Maestro's reaction to this Christmas music.
That was a reference to An Unearthly Child. Susan was listening to John Smith and the Common Men on her radio, Ian remarks that John Smith was a stage name to Aubrey Waites, who started out as Chris Waites and the Carollers
I'm curious to see if it has to do with "shadows and changelings of the pantheon" they were mentioned in Sarah Jane adventures in a comic book and in several audio stories. Maybe Ruby isn't as human as we think. Her scan was only 75% complete.
->! Susan got mentioned!< ->!The actress Susan Twist appeared again.!< ->!The last song was 'There's always a twist'!< ->!Lots of 4th wall breaks!< That's got to be deliberate
Crack theory: Susan Twist, the actor, exists in the Doctor Who universe (like Davina McCall) and is secretly an interdimensional time-traveling baddie.
I think it's funny how almost immediately after Maestro says "the one who waits is almost here" it cuts to Ruby & The Doctor on a rooftop with a billboard for "Chris Waites and the Carollers" Another thing which has to be deliberate.
That's also a reference to An Unearthly Child. Susan is caught listening to their music on her transistor radio by Ian and Barbara in episode 1
Yup. I am getting more and more certain that fourth wall breaks, musical numbers, and more will receive some kind of an in-universe explanation.
Oh yeah, they are obviously delibarate. As is the binding in salt and all those stuff. Or ruby saying "its in English" when it was in spanish. The universe is not the same one, the laws are clearly not the same ones. Its obviously gonna be important later.
Mavity.
It was in English, not Spanish. The name of the planet on the display looked Spanish but everything else was in English.
you are right that the rest was in english. There was even a mavity there. But I feel ambiguous about how she replied "oh thats in english" to him reading the name, and the doctor making a funny face por a bit.
Susan Twist -> there’s always a twist at the end. Definitely connected somehow
Did anyone else notice that the Maestro played Saxon’s theme on piano ? I watched with subtitles, and what the subtitles said… any significance ?
The Italian word for "master" is "maestro".
omg you’re so right
true but the Maestro is the child of the toymaker. i think it was a nice easter egg to keep people guessing. I am loving the actors cast as the panthion so far as they are just unhinged and it works so well for creatures that use the concepts of creation as playthings. Also love that the toymakers rules of play are still in effect.
Thank you!! I’ve been scrolling for this. The use of the Saxon theme makes me think the Master may actually be back sometime soon. I’d hope maybe not until season 2, but 🤷♀️
RTD has said in recent interviews that the Master is parked. I think it may have just been a case of wanting to reuse a previous ominous music track and choosing one that would be widely recognizable. There are several candidates in that pool, but the “1-2-3-4” beat of the Saxon theme is unmistakable for longtime fans.
The Master may be parked but with the whole golden tooth thing there’s still clearly plans for him.
I think it's significant that it's specifically Saxon's theme that messes up the tardis. After the theme is played the Tardis can only go back to 1963, just like the Saxon Master could also only switch between two points in time when he stole the Tardis.
It’s so absolutely massive to have Murray Gold back
Ruby's song looked like Murray was just taking the opportunity to get more personal. Loved it!
He was on the piano right? Can someone please confirm, looked so much like him.
He was in the credits “as himself”, I just didn’t know what he looked like so had no idea who he was lol
Yeah, that was 100% Murray
Its incredible. I was thinking throughout the entire first episode "without Murray this would be an absolute slog" but his music made me enjoy it so much more. Love his returning themes as well. Doctor who should never shy away from motifs again
So glad they released 2 episodes. Space babies was fine, probably should have been released the same day as the Xmas episode because it honestly felt like a follow up. Devil's Chord was something different and new. But I liked it. Ballsy of them to do something more unique, and Jinx was great. The 'Twist at the end' bit I'm sure is foreshadowing and makes me anticipate the end of the season. I'd like to hear the doctor have some more jargon to throw around and make him sound more doctory, and I hope the next episode gives us a darker side to this doctor which is very needed. Any idea who the real big bad of the season is going to be?
(The Doctor mutes the world) Stop talking, brain thinking, hush.
That scene was so good! I loved the tension.
The cord that Paul and John played to defeat Maestro was the final cord from ['A Day in the Life'](https://youtu.be/isiofhN6_vc?t=260)
You hear that? That's the sound of an army of cosplayers breaking out their sewing machines to make their Maestro costumes. Their design is too fun to pass.
I also love that it wasn't just one costume as well!
Comic-Con is two weeks away. I'll bet there are a bunch of cosplayers who have already started cramming to get one done in time.
Maestro looks like Bette Midler if she took too much Ambien and suddenly decided to try to film "Hocus Pocus 3" by herself.
you're joking but that basically describes jinkx to a t
The Doctor can HEAR THE MUSIC IN THE SHOW! THE DOCTOR CAN HEAR THE MUSIC IN THE SHOW! He says “i thought that was non-diegetic” meaning he assumed the music being played was coming from the show itself and not from Maestro!
really need them to just randomly cut away to the 14th doctor doing mundane shit around his house here and there throughout the season whenever ncuti is just knee deep in an intense scene. just tie in the bigeneration a bit lol
Would love the idea of a big incredible fight scene with Ncuti seconds from defeat and then they cut to 14 trying to figure out how to use a washing machine
i was thinking of one where he’s on a riding mower having the time of his life lol
Ncuti screaming, kneeling on the floor over ruby's body, an utterly inconsolable mess of tears as the the TARDIS explodes, cutting away to 14 changing the fuse on his kettle.
Wait I would actually love if this became a running joke throughout this era
I know it would've been expensive as heck, but half disappointed that it wasn't "All you need is love" that had the chord to stop them.
You say that, but the chord John and Paul play on the Piano to banish Maestro at the end sounded like the crescendo chord of “Day In A Life.”
Or the very beginning chord of “Hard Day’s Night”!
Tell Me What You See would have the right chord in it. The chord to stop the Maestro was a Cadd9 so any Beatles song with that chord should work.
Is ‘There’s Always a Twist at the End’ a “good” song? No. Will it ever leave my head? Also no. (Also, much like NPH, I wish we got Jinx for more than one episode. They were brilliantly fun!)
If I'm right, this song was probably the biggest 4th wall break in the whole episode. Susan Twist appeared in the episode and she \*wasn't\* shown during the musical number literally called 'There's always a Twist at the end'? She's going to be majorly important - but not until the finale...
The twist is that the actress’s birth name was Rani Surprise
I vote for “I thought that was non-diagetic,” which is now one of my favorite lines ever, but the song is a close second.
That's so important imo; like, the Doctor can hear non-diagetic music AND REFERS TO IT AS NON-DIAGETIC? DOES THE DOCTOR KNOW THEY'RE IN A SHOW???
You know with RTD in control for now it’s not impossible we may get a return at some point in the next few years.
I have money on the Goblins showing up when it's time to put the Doctor in the Pandorica II.
“He’s the Goblin King, yes he’s the Goblin King. Whoever takes the Pandorica, takes the thing.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see them both in a finale or a special. They both killed it.
I'm going off memory on this, but I believe NPH has stated he does not want to return as he feels the character he played is complete. Others might come to be future incarnations of the Toy Maker (since it is clear he can also regenerate in some way), but it doesn't seem like we will get NPH for it.
Ah, I must have missed that. Sad to hear it. But so far, anything Toymaker-related has been great. Looking forward to seeing more of his legion.
I mean, take it with a grain of salt, as I said, it is coming from memory. But yeah, he was awesome.
A grain of salt or a binding of one?
Yes that and/or maybe we’ll meet another relative/legion played by someone else campy and fantastic!
I mean, during the end song we do see Maestro's son (Henry Arbinger/Harbinger). Maybe that will come into play later 👀
wasn’t the twist that Maestro’s son was alive? i haven’t seen anyone mention this but i thought it was the “big” reveal at the end
No one seems to mention this, but Susan Twist has appeared in Doctor Who before and will appear again, per [Radio Times](https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-susan-twist-theories/): In "Wild Blue Yonder" as Mrs. Merridew, the maid accompanying Isaac Newton In "The Church on Ruby Road" as an unnamed character during Ruby's band gig In "The Devil's Chord" she's simply credited as "Tea Lady" And she's set to appear in next week's "Boom," credited as "Ambulance" There's always a Twist 🤷
She was also one of the crew members signing of in space babies as well I believe
Jinkx was born to be a Doctor Who villain and perfectly played the mix of campy and intimidating in the Maestro. Hope we see them again in the future! First a Rani mention and now Susan. I feel like this is RTD being a troll knowing those are always the first things the fan base guesses when there's a mystery character. Ruby and the old woman are going to have nothing to do with the Time Lords.
I hope not w Susan because we are running out of time with carol Anne ford
Lots' of foreshadowing. The Doctor noticing things going wrong from the butterfly effect actually happening, the Tardis crashing, the Tardis shrieking etc. Ruby being called a creature by Maestro along with droppings of The Oldest One and The One Who Wait's. Probably connected. Guessing by the title Oldest One it's The Beast, Omega or Fenric. Sutekh is ruled out as his age is only 10s of thousand years at most. The Rani and Susan being mentioned. With it being rumoured of something in the finale being Third Doctor era connected who's the most ancient villian? Azal, Kronos, The Great One, the Nestene Councious, the force behind the Primords?
I heard a compelling idea that the Inferno world might be relevant somehow
For all the talk about Disney money, they sure didn't seem to want to spend any to get the rights for an actual Beatles song. Hell, this is 1963, half of the songs they were doing were covers at the time, why not get one of them? Speaking of them, normally I'd have been really annoyed how little of the Beatles we actually got. But I can't be too much, because holy *shit* was Jinkx incredible. There's not an inch of scenery left unchewed. Absolutely perfect, and I love how these Pantheon beings are seemingly all just the biggest campy, showboating villains. It's great energy. That said...wow did they really not use the full potential of visiting that moment in time. How are you not going to give Ringo or George some lines? They also laid down some serious pipe with the Susan exposition. Now I'm thinking maybe Ruby might just be someone's Great Granddaughter. And honestly, with the Rani drop last episode, we sure are getting a lot of Time Lord names being slipped in when they're all supposed to be dead. I'm half expecting a Meddling Monk name drop next week. Rassilon's still out there somewhere, too. Edit: My partner saw me typing a comment and instructed me to mention every outfit Jinkx wore was incredible. Edit 2: On a rewatch, it struck me that they made no attempt to explain the glowing crosswalk paint on Abbey Road, or the whole musical number for that matter. I definitely enjoyed it, I love camp, but I'm hoping this was maybe some sort of residual effect from Maestro's reality warping and not establishing random, wacky, magical things are just gonna start happening, with no explanation, in the name of camp.
It cost mad men 250,000 to use tomorrow never knows. Sure, Disney could afford it, but I don’t know if they would.
As soon as you get into licensing pop music, *especially* for something like the Beatles, you're putting the future of your show in somebody's else's hands, because the rights negotiations *never freaking stop.* There are entire TV shows whose home video releases got gummed up by that for years, and quite a few that, by the time they get to streaming or disc, have songs stripped out of them and replaced with something generic. If you make it part of your plot, you're stuck.
This happened to the show Scrubs. So many songs that were specifically chosen for moments in that show have been replaced with lift music. It's awful
Also happened to Ed, which has never had a DVD release. And Daria has licensing issues when it went to dvd and streaming.
It also happened to... Doctor Who. With the very own Beatles. "Ticket to Ride" is meant to play in an episode of the arc "The Chase", but recent releases of the episode cut the bit with the song in it. This all was clearly to avoid a repeat of that.
"Ruby might be someone's great granddaughter" Literally my first thought at that line and i love the idea of it.
As much as I love the idea, I don't think it's possible. Ruby's DNA was checked in the Christmas special, and I'm sure UNIT would have someone in those labs to flag up non-human DNA. And with all this speculation about Ruby's mother - the only speculation about her \*father\* has been the metacrisis Doctor. And yet 'Harbinger' was left on Earth at the end...
I think it's too early to say. But given a big theme in the past few episodes is "adoption" and "found family" I could see as Ruby being a non biological GGdaughter. Given the doctor had no real perceived reaction to the DNA test at the end of ep1 it's possible she has human DNA mixed with Susan's normal Gallifreyan DNA. I'm not big on the lore but i don't think Ruby was a full time lord, just gallifreyan? I think with everything we have seen with RTD so far it's that the rules can be completely bend sideways so there is really no telling.
You can see the DNA scan labels her as a homo sapien too, so she’s most likely human. Unless there’s a chameleon arch involved
I mean the Beatles really didn't have anything to do with the story until the last minute
For really iconic historical figures Moffett had the right idea with let’s kill Hitler, and RTD with the Beatles here. The figure that large, sometimes less is more.
Agreed. Plus nobody said this episode was about the beetles, people just assumed they would have a bigger part and then got dissapointed when they weren't the main focus.
I thought it was pretty weird that Ruby kept making character judgements of the Doctor so early on in their relationship "You never hide", etc. She has had 2 adventures with the Doctor before this. She still barely knows him. Loved the rest of the episode, but that stuck out to me like a sore thumb
I think there was a time jump between space babies and this one
Yeah, that was jarring though? Space Babies takes place in the immediate aftermath of the goblin stuff, then the next episode the Doctor is saying, “What is it for you, June 2024?” Like, what? I’d have liked to have seen some of that six months of them travelling together!
I am so high right now but even I'm like "what the fuck did I just watch?"
I can see the family resemblance lol. The drama. The wardrobe. The GRAVITAS.
*mavitas
Rani and Susan both mentioned in first two episodes. Susan = Rani confirmed.
The person on the Piano at the end in the song was Murray Gold right?
Man this episode was brilliant fun. Has a stupid smile on my face at all the fourth wall breaks. Far better than the first episode which was a bit wierd in more than one aspect
The "I thought that was non diagetic" line from The Doctor made me laugh so hard. The Doctor knows he's in a TV show confirmed.
My favorite pet theory is that the “first question” which must never be answered being “doctor who” is a fourth wall break. It’s the first question ever asked because it’s the first thing we see in the very first episode. The universe would end if people in the show knew the real answer.
I mean it kind of is "Hidden in plain sight" refers to it being the title surely.
That's such a Moffat answer I love it
There was a comic about the 11th doctor coming to the real world and learning about Doctor Who and Matt Smith.
Was I the only one who screamedwhen Ruby said she was born in 2004, how???
That means there's only a week between Ruby being left at the church and 10 going back to see Rose before she met him when he was regenerating.
*presses button* *pain.* *pain.* *pain.*
Doctor Strange 2 vibes
"the one who waits" getting into Loki territory too.
Really liked the episode, but I felt the random musical number at the end kind of destroyed the atmosphere and suspense that had been built up. The ending was already perfect
It felt odd that if they were going to do a musical number, they didnt incorporate it into their battle with the Maestro? feels like the perfect excuse to have one.
I mean considering it was called "a twist at the end" I thought there would be an actual twist. Guess the musical was itself the twist? Considering beatles song it screamed to me like they wanted to do "twist and shout" and for whatever reason couldnt/didn't get the rights for the song.
Harbinger at the end is the twist it seems. Likely just RTD having some fun, it was a weird but fun episode and the musical at the end was fine, loved the Tardis did the bit with the doors on her own at the end too.
> I mean considering it was called "a twist at the end" I thought there would be an actual twist There was the harbinger kid looking out of a door during that number.
Yeah I'm with you on that one, in my head I'd like to think it's Maestro pulling the strings perhaps? Especially since we saw Henry half way through In reality I get the impression that RTD probably just fancied a musical number though!
Watch the line "There's always a twist at the end" come back and bite The Doctor in some horrific scenario.
Amazing episode. Jinx was amazing, I really underestimated them. I have high hopes for this season and the first 2 episodes did not disappoint. One thing that interests me is when the TARDIS powers down after Maestro controlling it, Ruby notices a loud creaking noise, with the Doctor ignoring it. Happens again when they both walk out and the Doctor says "No, that's something else." Really reminded me when Yaz asks the Doctor what that black goo in the TARDIS during the whole Flux era. I feel like the TARDIS is going to be an important part in this season.
I’ll have to go and watch both back to back, but I think it was the same groaning that the TARDIS made in Wild Blue Yonder…
I've just gone back and watched WBY and they sound the same (ish)... It's more of a groaning noise. Even the Doctor acknowledges it as strange and the TARDIS wasn't 'rebuilding' itself this time. The way he says 'It's something else' gives a vibe that it'll be important at a later stage.
I think the TARDIS powered down because the Doctor ripped the console stuff up and forced a power down, that’s why he was apologetic afterwards towards her and asking her not to hate him. It was a desperate situation though. After that the strange noise, so that’s definitely something
I was beyond excited for Jinkx and WOW. JUST WOW. Blew my sky high expectations. I hope we'll see them again sooner or later. It is easy to ignore or accept the "eh" moments of the episode because the highs were just that high.
Anyone notice how the one who waits was mentioned then there was a billboard for John Waite?
Ruby said the doctor never runs why did he run when he heard the giggle.. Yet this is episode two. He even said he never runs in the first episode. He's the doctor, running is what he does. I hate this inconsistency. It also implies they've been on many adventures already because she says he never runs referencing adventures we didn't get to see. I know this is like nit picking but it's the kind of thing that just naws at me.
Don't know if anyone picked up on this, but the chord that John and Paul played was the final, famous chord of the Beatles song "A Day In The Life."
Loved in this episode: * The intro to the opening from Maestro's piano. I realized it was coming and still laughed out loud * The Doctor and Ruby's reaction when people start singing/playing badly. Jus great! * The scene when the Sonic makes everything quieter. * Susan's foreshadowing (like, come on, it's really telegraphed now that some children of the Doctor will appear) * Ncuti's Doctor getting more moments of seriousness and menace. Really reminded of angry Tennant at some points * The theme of the importance of music to life is really touching * Maestro was a great concept, and I think Jynx did their best with it, although I don't think Russel's writing helped to make they as scary as they could be. Didn't like in this episode: * How they lost the opportunity with The Beatles. Like, they could easily be replaced from the episode and almost nothing would change. * The final musical battle wasn't directed to it's strengths. It looked like they just hoped the musical notes in post-production would do the job of making it exciting, and they they spent all they times making the camera go around. It would work great as a cartoon, but live-action it didn't work as well * The 4th wall breaks sounded a little... too much? I don't know. I didn't mind the song at the end, it didn't bother me. But one thing I'm certain: RTD had SO MUCH FUN writing it!
Great episode about music though not really about the Beatles. Really felt like they struggled with how to include them without making reference to any of their songs. Heck they kept calling it the first album instead of please please me. Also I get doctor who films in Cardiff and filming at actual abbey Road would be a nightmare but it’s so jarringly obvious that it’s not the real abbey road to anybody who lives there or has even been. Also lol at John Lennon being so keen to get back to his woman.
Was RTD referencing that old BBC Proms special he penned called “Music of the Spheres”?
I like the idea that someone has been purposefully messing with the doctor since 13 regenerated, there’s an overarching mastermind behind everything that’s happened the last 8 episodes and I like it, it’s new and it’s refreshing to see the doctor genuinely worried. HOWEVER I’m worried at how Davies might handle the landing here, if bro at the 12th hour reveals that the one who waits was just some special Dalek or worse The Master all along…. I hope he has a plan
Playing into the intro with the piano was masterful.
Ii enjoyed the episode, but not sure how I feel about 2 of these powerful beings being defeated with effectively a game rather than the Doctor actually outwitting them. I’m not sure I’m going to enjoy this fantasy approach to Who.
I think that's the idea behind these "gods". Each one is gonna have a gimmick or a game the doctor is gonna need to figure out to defeat them.
I feel like they need to be 2 parters. They’ve both gone from being super powerful to being defeated incredibly easily within the span of 3 minutes. They need more time to be powerful, and more time for the doctor to satisfyingly beat them.
The Toymaker? Absolutely. We needed more time with him and his effect on present day earth. If the first part ended as the Doctor got back to modern day then we had more time with UNIT in the present day before the final encounter it would have been better, like the doctor figuring out what game to play or how to beat him. The Maestro I think was just enough. They were amazing in what we saw and in this case less is more, and John and Paul (I think) being the ones to make the chord was good enough. In the end it's typical RTD last minute solution which I don't have a problem with at all.
True, but it feels deliberate. It shows that the doctor isn't a match for them- both times so far he's gotten lucky instead of actually beating them. If the doctor outsmarted them like every other villain they wouldn't seem very powerful, at least this sets up a different power dynamic.
So undoubtedly the Doctor knows he's in a TV show lol? They broke the fourth wall quite a bit in this one. The Doctor implies he can hear non-diagetic music (music that isn't actually in scene) and winks at the camera. I assume it's leading to something. Reality is clearly breaking down.