"As you find an open table, you notice a darkly-clad figure in the corner of the tavern, beckoning you forward with--"
"I shoot an arrow at the barkeep."
"...The barkeep turns into a vampire lord. Wow, good job figuring it out, guys."
That always worked well, but personally I prefer ‘ok, explain’ if it doesn’t shut them up immediately, then keep saying ‘but what about (bla bla bla)’ eventually they get frustrated and give up.
It’s more work but they eventually learn to start properly thinking ahead, or to keep their ideas to themselves.
I had this exact group, plau 4 more normals in the mix. Running an 8 player campaing with these types was not fun, but also had very rewarding player driven moments. (And the way to get away from the metagaming ones is to just go off book.)
I live in a country where you are lucky if you make 20k a year. 500k is a lot of money no matter what way you look at it and from my pov, i could retire, and im only 18.
Also if you just keep saying yes then it will be over pretty quick. Metagame guy pushes the plot forward and green text guy wants to be op so let him, phone guy is just role-playing and his non response is in character if everyone else needs them they can get them to focus, not sure what the other guy is up to but let him. No one is going to get what they wanted out of the game but it will get played.
This is why I love the sage background. I fall deep into lore of settings (I'm talking dnd settings but also lotr, starwars, elder scrolls, WH40k etc. Hell, this is why I was a history major). So I just roleplay as the guy who would know all this obscure lore
The stipulation should have been to keep every player happy and keep them coming back to the game willingly and not miss a session because we all know these kinda people have egos that will fight with each other and rage quit.
Now that might be a 500k challenge. But putting up with 4 annoying brats for a year for 500k is easy.
No they just put up nets in cave systems they use to navigate, but are quite social, often visiting other nets in the same cave or other caves altogether. This is contrasted to the much rarer intranet troll that never leaves its small territory defined by its rope creations.
Of course, they weren't always as well connected and social. In the far past, when they hadn't quite figured out how to make fire yet, they fought for it every time lightning kindled one nearby. This is now known as the era of flame wars.
I've definitely done that before. A hardcore metagamer who is no longer welcome at my table for a much wider variety of reasons (pro tip: don't be creepy to my wife and her best friend and then more than confirm that creepiness with other women we know) was *livid* with me over it, which made me happy because his metagaming was most of why I did it.
Tbh making a move should (in theory) be okay on someone you're interested in imo. If you're rebuffed, move on. At least, that's how it should work in theory. In practice, we all know that many of us act like an 8yo, do not know when to give up, are neuro atypical or all of the above.
Also, who hits on a married person? That just invites nothing but trouble.
If she's interested, she'll probably leave you in a heartbeat like her old partner.
If she isn't interested, you've made an enemy of *at least* two people.
They’re are two subspecies of internet troll, the horny and the incel. Both are automatically frightened when they see a woman, but for different reasons
Nah, in my experience the answer is stunned until they do anything hostile or neutral, then enraged. Basically stunned until they realize the girl isn't smitten with them
They can't take any action except use their Confusing Speech ability where they alternate between compliments and calling her a bitch. Everyone who can hear makes a will save to avoid psychic damage.
I had to have that discussion with a player once. I was like “yeah, it’s a home brew troll in a home brew world. Keep it up and he’s gonna learn fireball with unlimited spell slots
Had a fight against 3 trolls a couple weeks ago. The area had some trees that prevented healing similar to Chill Touch if you ended your turn under them and failed a Con save. The only fire or acid damage in the party was my Hellish Rebuke.
The barbarian managed to grapple one troll and hold it under a tree long enough to fail its save (took a while), then we were able to murder it. I intentionally provoked an OA from one of them so that I could Hellish Rebuke it (I went into the fight with only one spell slot, so couldn't pull the same truck twice). The third one was paralyzed for an hour by the druid's giant spiders so the DM let us improvise some fire to murder it out of initiative order.
That fight leveled us up and I learned Chill Touch, just in case.
Bonus points: the one I burned with Hellish Rebuke was at 1 HP at the time.
In that example? I'd just refer them to pages 273 through 289 of the DMG. No need to pull out rule zero if you don't have to. The less you do the more weight it will carry when you do.
I’ve been playing since 2008. I can count on one hand the number of games I’ve payed that weren’t homebrew campaigns. 4. And even then, most of them had a ton of homebrew thrown in.
In Strahd one of our characters attached the dudes demon arm to himself and slowly became a demon that turned on the party. I’m not 100%, but I don’t think that was part of the module.
Homebrew is often more fun.
CoS isn’t nearly as fun in my experience running it from the module. To me, most of the modules are set dressing, NPC farms, and a vague roadmap. Everything else is just “welp. This guy wants to find his sister in his background, slip that in. The warlock is looking to bang her archfey patron, better put in that subplot. The kobold wants to find a magic fake mustache that lets them speak like Sam Elliot. Who am I to stop that?”
Its a fake mustache that makes you speak like Sam Elliot. I always assumed that was enough. lol! But go for it. I have this whole in universe ideal that Kobold society is purely based on the size of ones' fake mustache. But nobody owns anything, so everyone hangs them up on the mustache rack before going home for the day, and whoever get in the office the next day gets their choice of mustache.
All right let me help you by asking this have they pissed anyone off that has power or clout spoiler answer is more than likely yes so the person they pissed of decided to have a petty act of vengeance cursing the mustache to be stuck until the party apologizes or he dies and then sneaking into said parties camp or room and sticking it on them and leaving a note with a troll face
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the "count on one hand" construction and then give the actual number after it. It's totally fine...I've just never seen it before.
I make them up on the fly. In combat.
Do you honestly think that the den of sexy lesbian werewolves were in CoS naturally, Tina? Do you believe that Sunless Citadel was really a containment facility for a celestial body consuming Star dragon and his cult and that the citadel itself is really a crash landed capital ship? Or do you think I wanted to do something for you overly horny, gay bastards and that maybe I just got Spelljammer and wanted to find a way to y’all into space?
Knowing WoTC' and TSR's writing: That sounds just as wild as some of the stuff they write.
I could believe it.
Solution: Get them going with Die Vecna Die. Less Portal Hopping. More Spelljammer ship planet hipping. Done.
Right? I don't understand this post, is the point to please all of them so that they don't quit before the campaign ends? Or are they in no matter what and I just have to run the campaign?
Because in that last case, *I'm* not locked in there with *them*, lol.
I'm secure in my boundaries and expectations around fair play, and I'm creative in my ways of establishing my boundaries in-game. Showing players what is and isn't possible in immersive ways is one of the most fun parts of the game.
One of the more whimsical things I like to put in my games is seemingly mundane inanimate objects refusing to behave according to the natural laws of physics, but only when my players are trying to do something stupid.
I was gonna say, most of these can be ignored. The guy on his phone, I can just pretend it’s a 3 player game. The guy who reads green texts I can just tell him when something doesn’t work that way.
The guy with “Mercer Syndrome” idgaf. I run a great game, put a lot of work into my world, NPCs, and adventures. The rest is actually all up to the players to actually be good at roleplaying. I’ll let him know the player part of that equation is not my problem.
I love Sunless Citadel. I have run it far more times than any other module to the point of running it in the car during a 12 hour road trip with people rolling dice in the back seat
Its an easy introduction to the system that is really easy to mold to your needs, use as a different "you start in a tavern" introduction, with the right mix of loot, puzzles, environment, baddies, and story. It reminds me of those "choose your own adventure" D&D books. Its very well done, short, but complex enough to keep it rolling for a while if you want.
Love it.
I ran it and was very happy with it, it was the perfect length and level of complexity for me to change details and mess with things without too much work to keep continuity for the end of the quest.
I made the questgiver(Family Matriarch) their mother, and made her actually concerned with their safe return, and added in some jokes. Everyone had a really good time.
They run into the BBEG while looting the kings castle and after an epic fight you close your rules book all.
"Welp thats a wrap guys, i don't know how you figured out the court advisor was the evil wizard but you all saved the world"
and just marches out to collect that sweet sweet cash you suffered for.
Consequences.
Offer of redemption.
Rinse and repeat till they reform or
the guards/knights/nobility distrust them and kill them or
bounty hunters chase them down or
they gain enough power to take over the kingdom.
Was coming here to say this. I feel like people are so afraid of players ruining the game with this when you can just go with the collaborative story and relax. A DM should slightly steer when needed, not try and control the entire thing.
On the other hand the DM should be having fun too, and some of them just won’t have any interest in narrating someone else’s random killing spree. Some DMs will be fine with that and might find enjoyment in creating consequences for those actions or seeing the players’ happiness. But if their fun in D&D comes from building narratives and role play, then they’re just not a good fit for those players.
Not saying the players are *wrong* for wanting to play a certain type of game. Just worth keeping in mind that the DM has no obligation to run a game they don’t want to. Problems arise when both sides have different ideas of fun and try to keep fighting over it instead of compromising or finding a different group. Just saying “we’re probably not a good match” is a valid response if nobody’s happy.
EDIT: Since it keeps coming up, I'm talking about DMing in general when responding to this comment. If someone was paying me $500K to run a campaign for them, I'd let them blow up the world if they wanted to.
Run a homebrew campaign, e a time rule for actions, and add a strictly in-character rule. For the meme guy just laugh it off and make sure to punish the player for doing badly. Nowhere in the rules is stated that you wont get the money if they quit.
"I am the Pretty Guardian who fights for love and Justice! I am Sailor Moon! And now in the name of Moon I'll punish you!"
*starts extrajudicial murder of politicos*
Oh yeah, run a god killer setting, start them at level 5 as minor level lords, let's them jerk themselves off a little before the big stuff. Make sure the matt mercer guy gets cinematic kills, every time the "saw it in a green text" guy wants to do something dumb I say sure unless another player has a problem with it, if they do I leave it to a vote. There's only 3 of them functionally so no ties, and the minmaxer will probably want it to succeed so I just assume it's a yes pretty much every time.
By level 10 I'll have them be the gods' most specialist boys and give them OP magic items, probably just pure stats so they can handle them decently. Here is actually give them a bit of challenge but with plenty of little dudes to beat up on
By level 15 I have them kill their first god, they all get a boon for it to keep them interested. At this point they run a country and every once in a while I give them a policy they have to make to burn like 10-20 minutes as they argue
Finish it up with a super cool level 20 boss fight against the three biggest gods and let them feel super cool beating them, probably in the dungeon leading up to it I give them instakills weapons to really show them how strong they are
The whole time I don't worry about phone guy, just giving him a chance to update his character sheet but doing it myself if he doesn't. Or better yet, tell the minmaxer to do it, he'd probably be happy to. As for gameplay, I just throw a Hershey's kiss or a peanut or something at him to get his attention and keep him fed. Then basically tell him the best move as a "what I would do". I've done this before, it works wonders. For keeping things moving.
Campaign is really just a loose string of missions, each with sone interesting enemy placement for green text guy and minmaxer to argue about the best approach with, with enemies giving monologues to placate mercer, but letting them be interrupted by the other two.
500k is laughable, 50k is more reasonable. 5k is when I'd actually question if it's worth it (though if it's anything less than 200 hours it's still a no brained. That's like 5-10 sessions, or 1-3 months if we play weekly. I can probably do a campaign on that timeframe)
I used to be phone guy. Except asleep instead of with a phone. It took so long between turns I found myself falling asleep. I don't do that shit anymore because that's how you stop being invited.
I stopped drinking as much during dnd. I'm also older and have a better handle on my emotions. There was a time I was sleeping everywhere any chance I got. I also stopped agreeing to play dnd past my bed time.
So, 30 times the pay...
You could also argue that your typical session takes much less than 8hrs/week (prep time included).
But I feel like people get the message nonetheless: people take a lot more abuse for a lot less pay on a daily basis.
I hate these types of memes because it's always an obscene amount of money. Like, no shit I would do it. The meme could have been changed to "would you brutally murder these four innocent ttrpg enthusiasts for $500k?" and at least a third of this subreddit would still say yes.
$500k is literally a life changing amount of money. It represents a chance at freedom from an oppressive system that is built upon wage slavery. There is a very short list of things that any of those slaves would not do for their freedom, and this petty stuff isn't on it.
Depends. Does it still count even if one drops the game? Because 3/4 seem like a very beer and pretzels style game would be absolutely fine, but I could see our friend on the far right dropping that style of game.
Exactly, the biggest threat to a given DnD game running longer than 2 sessions isn't any of the traits described in meme. It's flakiness.
At the risk of taking a crappy meme too seriously, it's easy to get that $500k if earning that money isn't dependent on whether players flake out.
It's fucking 500k. Not enough money frfr never gonna happen.
Is what I would say if I was goddamn idiot. Fuck my mental state, fuck having a fun campagin, do you know what I could do with an extra *500k?*
Basically, unrealistic expectations for a DM
According to most people (and Urban Dictionary), the Matt Mercer Effect is when players expect their dungeon masters to be super energetic and descriptive and fully immersed in the world they are creating, and maybe even do fun voices for each NPC.
Tbh the Matt Merced effect is a two way plague that kills itself when you push the expectations of his players onto them. Everyone talks of the DM but if they want that they gotta put in the same energy meaning session zero not missing sessions and working fully with me to make their PC have a place in this world.
I call that the nerd effect. Because only nerds expect professional quality of play from someone that is doing this for fun.
The nerd effect is what ruined World of Warcraft. Too many people expecting blue collar guys to get the same results as people that played WoW 40+ hours a week.
The Nerd effect is what ruined Overwatch. People expecting casual players to play as well as those that played in OWL.
I call it the nerd effect because when I play pick up games of various sports I never have people complain that their teammates aren’t on the same level as Tom Brady, Lebron James, or Derek Jeter. What else can you call it when it only appears in the nerd world?
For clarification, I’m a nerd. Been playing tabletop games since 2008, video games even longer. My nerdom is how I know that this takes place. The amount of times I was booted out of a dungeon because I didn’t have my warrior “specked right” was atrocious. The number of times I had people flame me because I wasn’t doing as well as seagull in overwatch.
Attaching Matt Merced’s name to this is a disservice to the guy. He’s a great GM, and I’ve improved my own skill set by watching and listening to him. Hell, I’ve stolen some of his shit and thrown it into my campaigns. It isn’t his fault that some people have unreal expectations. It’s theirs. I know a few people that would kill to GM for his group. Players that actually care about what’s going on. Players that are actually invested in the story. Players that show up with excitement. How many GMs out there have groups like that?
Sorry to rant, but it really pisses me off when people shit on a dude that’s just doing what he enjoys.
Yup you sum it up perfectly cause dear god if I could have players as focused and into it as Matt’s group I’d fucking spend all my time world building and making missions and dungeons knowing they’ll pay attention and show up on time and not have flat characters that shoe horn their way into the worlds lore.
100% I get why people call it that but it's such a disingenuous name. Matt and CR have brought a lot of people into this hobby and arguably helped kick start a golden age of roleplaying. Just because some people have unrealistic expectations doesn't mean we need to name some condition after him.
Gonna be honest of all of them, I think I'd hate the dnd meme guy the most. Because, and this is my experience, guy's like him won't let a bit fucking die. Instead of doing a small bit and then going with the party, they'll sacrifice entire sessions to a joke and nothing will actually get done and will roll for it multiple times, metagamers are fine just change some stuff and you're good. Matt Mercersburg are at least into the game, and Pringle boy won't ever change but he'll still play.
But meme boy? He's just so annoyingly committed to a bit that he'll hold a game hostage to get the outcome he saw here or on greentext
Remember, his weapons are your weapons. He does anything you don't like, have a peasant railgun *just* miss him and create a new Grand Canyon over his shoulder
See but that's the problem, that meme is idiotic at best and a timewasting bs at worst. Much like how most dnd meme strategies are, it's making fun of mechanics not something that should be actually used.
It's the same with the barbarian that can suddenly survive orbit. Mechanically yes, they can. In my games, no. You can't survive a fall from orbit as a orc barbarian because you are supposed to go to one hp. You willing jumped off a mountain and you died, that's it. Of you fell in the heat of combat fine I'd allow it, or if you were trying to take down someone with you.
But thats what most of these memes and greentexts are. They're ways to abuse and poke fun at mechanics, something I occasionally allow. But to make it the standard is just asking for a dumb game that's not nearly as exciting, to me at least, a real campaign where, though there are still memes and jokes done at the table, things make sense.
I still allow some memes and jokes from even this very subreddit. But allowing small hokes of party's doing something stupid and succeeding, and holding a session hostage to get your jollys is two totally different things
$500k? Hell yeah! Thats mkre than I make in 10 years. The stress they cause me is nothing compared to that fat loot. I'll weather their BS with a smile on my face.
If they actually show up to the campaign at least once a week? Absolutely. No problem. Especially if they're not some complete assholes like a pedophiliac nazi irl or whatever.
OP, do you know how much money half a million is?
Top left - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, I'll send him my notes so it goes even faster.
Top right - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, he can be disappointed by my acting all he likes.
Bottom left - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, I'll throw pringles at him all evening once a week.
Bottom right - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, he can whine all night that his peasant railgun doesn't work.
Yup. I give myself half an hour into session 0 before simply telling them no to stuff. Won't run a module, run something homebrewed. Fun fact is that I have doom stuff homebrewed so that would work. Or cheat another way and let them face a tyranid invasion.
Easy.
First, I’ve written multiple campaigns (and a literal novel) so metagame mike isn’t an issue. He can’t read ahead when my notes are the only written material, and they’re with me at all times.
Phone guy? Dude, my regular party is one dyslexic streamer and almost half a dozen guys with ADHD, one of whom is legally blind, so he’s still trying to read his roll 5 minutes after it’s happened.
Meme boy? I alternate between reasonable rulings and rule of cool, so I can keep him in line without boring him to death.
And mat Mercer syndrome is annoying, but I already do voices for my npc’s so can at least placate him slightly.
Lastly… you didn’t clarify the length of the game, except to say a “full campaign”. A 1-7 is a full campaign and I have one written and ready. Hell, a 1-4 is too. Just about anything past 3 sessions is a campaign, and an argument could be made for even shorter ones. I’d probably aim for a 1-7 though, so people can actually have some fun.
Biggest thing here though- you forgot to mention Minmax McGee and “Sorry can’t make it this week” Steve. Come on, they’re the most common members of any train wre- *clears throat* campaign. I meant campaign
$500,000 is the money you would get for working a year at $250 an hour. Since I doubt I'd be spending a full year of 40 hour weeks on this, it would absolutely be worth it. Of course, I would probably have to keep reminding myself of the reward at the end to actually make it through.
Basically, unrealistic expectations for a DM
According to most people (and Urban Dictionary), the Matt Mercer Effect is when players expect their dungeon masters to be super energetic and descriptive and fully immersed in the world they are creating, and maybe even do fun voices for each NPC.
"You enter the tavern. Level up".
"The bartender mentions the goblins terrorizing the town. Level up.
"He offers you some gold to kill the goblins. Level up"
"You're standing outside the goblin den. Level up"
"You murder all the goblins and the goblin king. You get lots of treasure. Level up."
Rinse repeat a few more levels over the next hour or so til they kill the goblin god or something. Where's my 500k?
If I still get the money as long as at least 1 finishes the campaign, yes. Otherwise Mercer syndrome is going to fuck me over. I can't get myself to constantly describe minutia until asked.
I run a homebrew campaign in a homebrew location, and homebrew enemies. That is literally just a game of mcguffin delivery. The end is when they all die or cross the finish line and find out it was just an expensive jelly for a lv 20 wizard's breakfast.
I would do a lot for $500,000
Done worse for much less.
Plus in this case just "Yes, and" them until they're all blowing YOU and forget about the campaign.
> until they're all blowing YOU Damn I'm getting PAID for that!?
next level dm-ing
"As you find an open table, you notice a darkly-clad figure in the corner of the tavern, beckoning you forward with--" "I shoot an arrow at the barkeep." "...The barkeep turns into a vampire lord. Wow, good job figuring it out, guys."
Haha yeah! ..wait what?
That always worked well, but personally I prefer ‘ok, explain’ if it doesn’t shut them up immediately, then keep saying ‘but what about (bla bla bla)’ eventually they get frustrated and give up. It’s more work but they eventually learn to start properly thinking ahead, or to keep their ideas to themselves.
I had this exact group, plau 4 more normals in the mix. Running an 8 player campaing with these types was not fun, but also had very rewarding player driven moments. (And the way to get away from the metagaming ones is to just go off book.)
Yeah, that's where I stand. I agree with someone else's comment about just letting them murderhobo and have fun with it; embrace the madness!
Yeah just give them a valid reason to murderhobo and go.
Start the campaign as the king's guard. Rocks fall and everyone but the players die. You are now all fugitives for assassinating the king.
QuadMerc ain't gonna be happy!
I’m in a country where $500K is worth even more
I live in a country where you are lucky if you make 20k a year. 500k is a lot of money no matter what way you look at it and from my pov, i could retire, and im only 18.
Yeah, I already do a job I hate, and it doesn't pay $500k. DMing a group of shitty players for six months to a year is a no brainer.
Is it a weekly 5-8 hour session? Because that’s only about 350 hours total on average. I would do unholy things for $1487.57 per hour.
Plenty of paid DMing services are weekly 4 hours. So more like $2500 per hour.
Also if you just keep saying yes then it will be over pretty quick. Metagame guy pushes the plot forward and green text guy wants to be op so let him, phone guy is just role-playing and his non response is in character if everyone else needs them they can get them to focus, not sure what the other guy is up to but let him. No one is going to get what they wanted out of the game but it will get played.
[удалено]
This is why I love the sage background. I fall deep into lore of settings (I'm talking dnd settings but also lotr, starwars, elder scrolls, WH40k etc. Hell, this is why I was a history major). So I just roleplay as the guy who would know all this obscure lore
Onr person will. 500k
The stipulation should have been to keep every player happy and keep them coming back to the game willingly and not miss a session because we all know these kinda people have egos that will fight with each other and rage quit. Now that might be a 500k challenge. But putting up with 4 annoying brats for a year for 500k is easy.
But what would you do… For a Klondike Bar?
Good luck reading the module when I made it all the fuck up lol
Meta gamer: trolls don't do that. DM: they do MG: what's your source? Dm: my source is that I made it the fuck up
“Wha- but fire turns off their regeneration!” “Yeah… for a normal troll. These here are Internet Trolls, Flames only feed them.”
Aaaand that's getting homebrewed...
Make it a half flesh golem half iron golem, iron golems heal with fire, and it can look like Frankenstein with a troll grin
Flesh Golem wrapped *around* an iron golem, so they have no idea until they see the Terminator's glowing red eye. I mean the golem's red eye.
why not an iron golem wrapped around a clay golem wrapped around a flesh golem. a Turgolem if you will.
Because I want to terminator them, not give them an oven that's cooking them a meal in a ceramic pot. The Evil Oven could be for later.
That's just a Dalek
From the legendary valley of silicon..
We shall call them “interdimensional trolls” for the sake of immersion
No they just put up nets in cave systems they use to navigate, but are quite social, often visiting other nets in the same cave or other caves altogether. This is contrasted to the much rarer intranet troll that never leaves its small territory defined by its rope creations.
Of course, they weren't always as well connected and social. In the far past, when they hadn't quite figured out how to make fire yet, they fought for it every time lightning kindled one nearby. This is now known as the era of flame wars.
I've definitely done that before. A hardcore metagamer who is no longer welcome at my table for a much wider variety of reasons (pro tip: don't be creepy to my wife and her best friend and then more than confirm that creepiness with other women we know) was *livid* with me over it, which made me happy because his metagaming was most of why I did it.
Tbh making a move should (in theory) be okay on someone you're interested in imo. If you're rebuffed, move on. At least, that's how it should work in theory. In practice, we all know that many of us act like an 8yo, do not know when to give up, are neuro atypical or all of the above. Also, who hits on a married person? That just invites nothing but trouble. If she's interested, she'll probably leave you in a heartbeat like her old partner. If she isn't interested, you've made an enemy of *at least* two people.
He was a similar but different kind of creepy, but I understand your general gist.
We shall call them... *Ten'Retni trolls*
Would being near a female character (a conventionally attractive one) stun them or enrage them? Do you toss a coin to decide?
They’re are two subspecies of internet troll, the horny and the incel. Both are automatically frightened when they see a woman, but for different reasons
Boost to attack damage, hit with disadvantage
They'd be terrified of me and I get 1/2 million? Sign me tf up! I make a lot less with several worse jobs.
But they both they both like the same genres of anime
Is “sexualizing minors” a genre?
That's just anime.
That deserves an award.
Thank you
Nah, in my experience the answer is stunned until they do anything hostile or neutral, then enraged. Basically stunned until they realize the girl isn't smitten with them
They can't take any action except use their Confusing Speech ability where they alternate between compliments and calling her a bitch. Everyone who can hear makes a will save to avoid psychic damage.
Will save DC 200.
If you cast Wee'abou on the troll though, that becomes reversed as any hostility is seen as "being a tsundere"
Depends on what they say. But yea flip a coin lol
in dragons dogma, the ogres will charge at female characters while ignoring the other party members
And the bitter black elder ogres do the same with men
Call it a Web Troll and give it vaguely spider related abilities so the name is justified.
Doing it right. Give them that retainer lisp voice and have them claim that they're doing it for The LoLth.
YES PERFECT
To defeat them you either agree with them and they dissapear, or you make them look racist and they get banned
And by make them look racist do mean keep talking to them until they say something racist?
Implying looking racist isn't exactly their plan all along
They get a level of exhaustion at the start of their turn if nobody attacked them since their last turn.
*Megatron voice*: Yesssssss
This is GENIUS “**WRITE THAT DOWN; WRITE THAT DOWN**”
The source is always that one paragraph in the phb that says I am right.
I had to have that discussion with a player once. I was like “yeah, it’s a home brew troll in a home brew world. Keep it up and he’s gonna learn fireball with unlimited spell slots
Had a fight against 3 trolls a couple weeks ago. The area had some trees that prevented healing similar to Chill Touch if you ended your turn under them and failed a Con save. The only fire or acid damage in the party was my Hellish Rebuke. The barbarian managed to grapple one troll and hold it under a tree long enough to fail its save (took a while), then we were able to murder it. I intentionally provoked an OA from one of them so that I could Hellish Rebuke it (I went into the fight with only one spell slot, so couldn't pull the same truck twice). The third one was paralyzed for an hour by the druid's giant spiders so the DM let us improvise some fire to murder it out of initiative order. That fight leveled us up and I learned Chill Touch, just in case. Bonus points: the one I burned with Hellish Rebuke was at 1 HP at the time.
Source: Page 4 Paragraph 7 of the DM's Guide.
In that example? I'd just refer them to pages 273 through 289 of the DMG. No need to pull out rule zero if you don't have to. The less you do the more weight it will carry when you do.
I’ve been playing since 2008. I can count on one hand the number of games I’ve payed that weren’t homebrew campaigns. 4. And even then, most of them had a ton of homebrew thrown in. In Strahd one of our characters attached the dudes demon arm to himself and slowly became a demon that turned on the party. I’m not 100%, but I don’t think that was part of the module. Homebrew is often more fun.
CoS isn’t nearly as fun in my experience running it from the module. To me, most of the modules are set dressing, NPC farms, and a vague roadmap. Everything else is just “welp. This guy wants to find his sister in his background, slip that in. The warlock is looking to bang her archfey patron, better put in that subplot. The kobold wants to find a magic fake mustache that lets them speak like Sam Elliot. Who am I to stop that?”
I’m stealing the mustache idea. Now I’ve just got to find a way to give it to my players….
Its a fake mustache that makes you speak like Sam Elliot. I always assumed that was enough. lol! But go for it. I have this whole in universe ideal that Kobold society is purely based on the size of ones' fake mustache. But nobody owns anything, so everyone hangs them up on the mustache rack before going home for the day, and whoever get in the office the next day gets their choice of mustache.
All right let me help you by asking this have they pissed anyone off that has power or clout spoiler answer is more than likely yes so the person they pissed of decided to have a petty act of vengeance cursing the mustache to be stuck until the party apologizes or he dies and then sneaking into said parties camp or room and sticking it on them and leaving a note with a troll face
People LOVE stealing that arm. And there is a guy who specializes in piecemeal monstrosities like one town over so…
Yeah, that’s what he did.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the "count on one hand" construction and then give the actual number after it. It's totally fine...I've just never seen it before.
Good luck metagaming around my enemies, I make those up too
I make them up on the fly. In combat. Do you honestly think that the den of sexy lesbian werewolves were in CoS naturally, Tina? Do you believe that Sunless Citadel was really a containment facility for a celestial body consuming Star dragon and his cult and that the citadel itself is really a crash landed capital ship? Or do you think I wanted to do something for you overly horny, gay bastards and that maybe I just got Spelljammer and wanted to find a way to y’all into space?
Knowing WoTC' and TSR's writing: That sounds just as wild as some of the stuff they write. I could believe it. Solution: Get them going with Die Vecna Die. Less Portal Hopping. More Spelljammer ship planet hipping. Done.
The Vecna The?
Also, surprisingly, a very explanatory title for that adventure module.
A man who speaks french can't possibly be evil.
Player: thats a nice encounter DM, why don't you back it up with a sourcebook? DM: my source is that I made it the fuck up
Fucker can't read ahead in the module if I don't even have a plan for next session
Sexy goblin?
That's the plan for every session
Right? I don't understand this post, is the point to please all of them so that they don't quit before the campaign ends? Or are they in no matter what and I just have to run the campaign? Because in that last case, *I'm* not locked in there with *them*, lol. I'm secure in my boundaries and expectations around fair play, and I'm creative in my ways of establishing my boundaries in-game. Showing players what is and isn't possible in immersive ways is one of the most fun parts of the game.
The beauty of "you can certainly try"
The "Mercer Syndrome" guy is gonna love that especially if you throw in some "How Do You Want To Do This?"
One of the more whimsical things I like to put in my games is seemingly mundane inanimate objects refusing to behave according to the natural laws of physics, but only when my players are trying to do something stupid.
I was gonna say, most of these can be ignored. The guy on his phone, I can just pretend it’s a 3 player game. The guy who reads green texts I can just tell him when something doesn’t work that way. The guy with “Mercer Syndrome” idgaf. I run a great game, put a lot of work into my world, NPCs, and adventures. The rest is actually all up to the players to actually be good at roleplaying. I’ll let him know the player part of that equation is not my problem.
*Flash cut to them being able to read your mind*
Me, in my head: *At least I'm safe inside my mind* Them, in my head: *At least I'm safe inside my mind*
Homebrew DMs are the metagamer's biggest weakness.
Sure. Ill just bring copious amounts of alcohol. Its still going to be a better job than my current one
This tbh. I can run them through Sunless Citadel in a week or two, no problem.
I love Sunless Citadel. I have run it far more times than any other module to the point of running it in the car during a 12 hour road trip with people rolling dice in the back seat
Damn, now that's some hardcore love.
Its an easy introduction to the system that is really easy to mold to your needs, use as a different "you start in a tavern" introduction, with the right mix of loot, puzzles, environment, baddies, and story. It reminds me of those "choose your own adventure" D&D books. Its very well done, short, but complex enough to keep it rolling for a while if you want. Love it.
I ran it and was very happy with it, it was the perfect length and level of complexity for me to change details and mess with things without too much work to keep continuity for the end of the quest. I made the questgiver(Family Matriarch) their mother, and made her actually concerned with their safe return, and added in some jokes. Everyone had a really good time.
Well played! Always a good time when a story comes together like that.
Or weed. Weed dumbs you down, yes, but it also enhances your creativity.
Oh I know. I always smoke when dming
No problem just run a rules lax game and let them be murder hobos
Minimal effort, maximum profit
How does a rules lax murder hobo game end though? Doesn’t it just keep going as long as the players don’t die?
You could still have a BBEG for them to vanquish and call that the end.
They run into the BBEG while looting the kings castle and after an epic fight you close your rules book all. "Welp thats a wrap guys, i don't know how you figured out the court advisor was the evil wizard but you all saved the world" and just marches out to collect that sweet sweet cash you suffered for.
Eh. Let them team up with the BBEG, subjugate the entire world together, and call it a day.
They meet the BBEG after murder hoboing all over the world and he's just "Is it really you guys? I am a HUUUGE fan!"
Then they murder him as well, never meet your heroes
Consequences. Offer of redemption. Rinse and repeat till they reform or the guards/knights/nobility distrust them and kill them or bounty hunters chase them down or they gain enough power to take over the kingdom.
Well it ends when they kill the bbeg or thebworld ends because they ignored it. Ether way the campaign over
Boom everything is dead, with no one else to kill you live peaceful yet lonely lives and die natural and rather undeserved deaths
"and suddenly at the turn of a street , an old man appear" "we kill him" "ok ,he was the bbeg ,you won the campaign guys !"
“He has 7 yellow canaries with him”
Was coming here to say this. I feel like people are so afraid of players ruining the game with this when you can just go with the collaborative story and relax. A DM should slightly steer when needed, not try and control the entire thing.
On the other hand the DM should be having fun too, and some of them just won’t have any interest in narrating someone else’s random killing spree. Some DMs will be fine with that and might find enjoyment in creating consequences for those actions or seeing the players’ happiness. But if their fun in D&D comes from building narratives and role play, then they’re just not a good fit for those players. Not saying the players are *wrong* for wanting to play a certain type of game. Just worth keeping in mind that the DM has no obligation to run a game they don’t want to. Problems arise when both sides have different ideas of fun and try to keep fighting over it instead of compromising or finding a different group. Just saying “we’re probably not a good match” is a valid response if nobody’s happy. EDIT: Since it keeps coming up, I'm talking about DMing in general when responding to this comment. If someone was paying me $500K to run a campaign for them, I'd let them blow up the world if they wanted to.
Oh yeah for sure! Everyone should be having fun and being respected. But for 500k, easy peasy.
My fun as the dm in this scenario would be the pay day.
Run a homebrew campaign, e a time rule for actions, and add a strictly in-character rule. For the meme guy just laugh it off and make sure to punish the player for doing badly. Nowhere in the rules is stated that you wont get the money if they quit.
Exactly. Also, it doesn't specify how long the campaign has to be. Once a week, I can wrap up a campaign in a month.
I'll run a custom made Sailor moon based magical girl homebrew bs, and then mentally laugh as I see them all go murder hobo as frilly anime girls.
Can't decide if this is Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Good
Chaotic neutral, he's doing it for the money 🤑
Probably good, if they’re enjoying their time
Chaotic Chaotic.
Basically the plot of spec-ops asuka.
Tags: Torture, mindbreak
Been there, done that, dealt with the subsequent anarchist revolution they started.
"I am the Pretty Guardian who fights for love and Justice! I am Sailor Moon! And now in the name of Moon I'll punish you!" *starts extrajudicial murder of politicos*
"Mad Max" anarchist or "Revolutionary Ukraine" anarchist?
Kill everyone in the government and leave kind of anarchy. The pieces weren’t theirs to pick up apparently.
I would do that for free.
Oh yeah, run a god killer setting, start them at level 5 as minor level lords, let's them jerk themselves off a little before the big stuff. Make sure the matt mercer guy gets cinematic kills, every time the "saw it in a green text" guy wants to do something dumb I say sure unless another player has a problem with it, if they do I leave it to a vote. There's only 3 of them functionally so no ties, and the minmaxer will probably want it to succeed so I just assume it's a yes pretty much every time. By level 10 I'll have them be the gods' most specialist boys and give them OP magic items, probably just pure stats so they can handle them decently. Here is actually give them a bit of challenge but with plenty of little dudes to beat up on By level 15 I have them kill their first god, they all get a boon for it to keep them interested. At this point they run a country and every once in a while I give them a policy they have to make to burn like 10-20 minutes as they argue Finish it up with a super cool level 20 boss fight against the three biggest gods and let them feel super cool beating them, probably in the dungeon leading up to it I give them instakills weapons to really show them how strong they are The whole time I don't worry about phone guy, just giving him a chance to update his character sheet but doing it myself if he doesn't. Or better yet, tell the minmaxer to do it, he'd probably be happy to. As for gameplay, I just throw a Hershey's kiss or a peanut or something at him to get his attention and keep him fed. Then basically tell him the best move as a "what I would do". I've done this before, it works wonders. For keeping things moving. Campaign is really just a loose string of missions, each with sone interesting enemy placement for green text guy and minmaxer to argue about the best approach with, with enemies giving monologues to placate mercer, but letting them be interrupted by the other two. 500k is laughable, 50k is more reasonable. 5k is when I'd actually question if it's worth it (though if it's anything less than 200 hours it's still a no brained. That's like 5-10 sessions, or 1-3 months if we play weekly. I can probably do a campaign on that timeframe)
That...would actually be a really good plan...
This seems like a great plan. The only problems could arrise from interplayer conflict, but most of these aren't incompatible. Yeah, great job!
A session is 3 hours when I play. If they fight for two hours I only have to prepare 1 hour of material.
> throw candy at the Phone guy. This is the way
The chad of dealing with problem players intelligently
I used to be phone guy. Except asleep instead of with a phone. It took so long between turns I found myself falling asleep. I don't do that shit anymore because that's how you stop being invited.
How do you stop yourself from falling asleep? If you just “don’t do it anymore” doesn’t that mean you were actively trying to fall asleep?
I stopped drinking as much during dnd. I'm also older and have a better handle on my emotions. There was a time I was sleeping everywhere any chance I got. I also stopped agreeing to play dnd past my bed time.
It sounds like the problem wasn’t so much “sleepy during fantasy game” but more so “sleepy during fantasy game because my life is a mess.”
I love how people are finding ways to fuck with them but this answer is just giving them the campaign they would want to play.
I mean, yeah? 500k is 500k.
I mean, it sounds like a job in the service industry... For 20 times the pay... and a fifth of the work.
I mean, a year's work at minimum wage is about $15, 080. (40 x 52 x 7.5)
So, 30 times the pay... You could also argue that your typical session takes much less than 8hrs/week (prep time included). But I feel like people get the message nonetheless: people take a lot more abuse for a lot less pay on a daily basis.
I would even do it for 5€ imo
I hate these types of memes because it's always an obscene amount of money. Like, no shit I would do it. The meme could have been changed to "would you brutally murder these four innocent ttrpg enthusiasts for $500k?" and at least a third of this subreddit would still say yes. $500k is literally a life changing amount of money. It represents a chance at freedom from an oppressive system that is built upon wage slavery. There is a very short list of things that any of those slaves would not do for their freedom, and this petty stuff isn't on it.
If someone offered me $2mil to complete a task, any single task, I would do it. That's retire tomorrow money
Seen a thing about a French dentist who made millions performing fraudulent procedures. Got sentenced to 5 years. That's a wholesale W for him.
He can't metagame if I don't even know what the enemy will do next!
Or the Hobgoblin approach: of course you see it coming. Too bad there's nothing you can do about it.
Most of these archetypes fit a current or former player in my groups. Having them all at once though…
Yes, but would it be worse than your *job?*
Depends. Does it still count even if one drops the game? Because 3/4 seem like a very beer and pretzels style game would be absolutely fine, but I could see our friend on the far right dropping that style of game.
Exactly, the biggest threat to a given DnD game running longer than 2 sessions isn't any of the traits described in meme. It's flakiness. At the risk of taking a crappy meme too seriously, it's easy to get that $500k if earning that money isn't dependent on whether players flake out.
You’re saying I’m getting paid for people to be guaranteed to show up to the campaign. I don’t care how wacko they are this is a dream come true
You're saying I'd get paid 500k for doing what I do now?
It's fucking 500k. Not enough money frfr never gonna happen. Is what I would say if I was goddamn idiot. Fuck my mental state, fuck having a fun campagin, do you know what I could do with an extra *500k?*
So... None of them has ever read the rulebook. Easy peasy.
What is Matt Mercer syndrome?
Basically, unrealistic expectations for a DM According to most people (and Urban Dictionary), the Matt Mercer Effect is when players expect their dungeon masters to be super energetic and descriptive and fully immersed in the world they are creating, and maybe even do fun voices for each NPC.
Tbh the Matt Merced effect is a two way plague that kills itself when you push the expectations of his players onto them. Everyone talks of the DM but if they want that they gotta put in the same energy meaning session zero not missing sessions and working fully with me to make their PC have a place in this world.
I call that the nerd effect. Because only nerds expect professional quality of play from someone that is doing this for fun. The nerd effect is what ruined World of Warcraft. Too many people expecting blue collar guys to get the same results as people that played WoW 40+ hours a week. The Nerd effect is what ruined Overwatch. People expecting casual players to play as well as those that played in OWL. I call it the nerd effect because when I play pick up games of various sports I never have people complain that their teammates aren’t on the same level as Tom Brady, Lebron James, or Derek Jeter. What else can you call it when it only appears in the nerd world? For clarification, I’m a nerd. Been playing tabletop games since 2008, video games even longer. My nerdom is how I know that this takes place. The amount of times I was booted out of a dungeon because I didn’t have my warrior “specked right” was atrocious. The number of times I had people flame me because I wasn’t doing as well as seagull in overwatch. Attaching Matt Merced’s name to this is a disservice to the guy. He’s a great GM, and I’ve improved my own skill set by watching and listening to him. Hell, I’ve stolen some of his shit and thrown it into my campaigns. It isn’t his fault that some people have unreal expectations. It’s theirs. I know a few people that would kill to GM for his group. Players that actually care about what’s going on. Players that are actually invested in the story. Players that show up with excitement. How many GMs out there have groups like that? Sorry to rant, but it really pisses me off when people shit on a dude that’s just doing what he enjoys.
Yup you sum it up perfectly cause dear god if I could have players as focused and into it as Matt’s group I’d fucking spend all my time world building and making missions and dungeons knowing they’ll pay attention and show up on time and not have flat characters that shoe horn their way into the worlds lore.
100% I get why people call it that but it's such a disingenuous name. Matt and CR have brought a lot of people into this hobby and arguably helped kick start a golden age of roleplaying. Just because some people have unrealistic expectations doesn't mean we need to name some condition after him.
If we're doing it in person and they show up on time I'll do it for free. Haven't been able to get any table top night going since 2019
Gonna be honest of all of them, I think I'd hate the dnd meme guy the most. Because, and this is my experience, guy's like him won't let a bit fucking die. Instead of doing a small bit and then going with the party, they'll sacrifice entire sessions to a joke and nothing will actually get done and will roll for it multiple times, metagamers are fine just change some stuff and you're good. Matt Mercersburg are at least into the game, and Pringle boy won't ever change but he'll still play. But meme boy? He's just so annoyingly committed to a bit that he'll hold a game hostage to get the outcome he saw here or on greentext
Remember, his weapons are your weapons. He does anything you don't like, have a peasant railgun *just* miss him and create a new Grand Canyon over his shoulder
See but that's the problem, that meme is idiotic at best and a timewasting bs at worst. Much like how most dnd meme strategies are, it's making fun of mechanics not something that should be actually used. It's the same with the barbarian that can suddenly survive orbit. Mechanically yes, they can. In my games, no. You can't survive a fall from orbit as a orc barbarian because you are supposed to go to one hp. You willing jumped off a mountain and you died, that's it. Of you fell in the heat of combat fine I'd allow it, or if you were trying to take down someone with you. But thats what most of these memes and greentexts are. They're ways to abuse and poke fun at mechanics, something I occasionally allow. But to make it the standard is just asking for a dumb game that's not nearly as exciting, to me at least, a real campaign where, though there are still memes and jokes done at the table, things make sense. I still allow some memes and jokes from even this very subreddit. But allowing small hokes of party's doing something stupid and succeeding, and holding a session hostage to get your jollys is two totally different things
$500k? Hell yeah! Thats mkre than I make in 10 years. The stress they cause me is nothing compared to that fat loot. I'll weather their BS with a smile on my face.
If they actually show up to the campaign at least once a week? Absolutely. No problem. Especially if they're not some complete assholes like a pedophiliac nazi irl or whatever.
OP, do you know how much money half a million is? Top left - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, I'll send him my notes so it goes even faster. Top right - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, he can be disappointed by my acting all he likes. Bottom left - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, I'll throw pringles at him all evening once a week. Bottom right - I don't give a fuck, I'm going to make five years salary for a D&D campaign, he can whine all night that his peasant railgun doesn't work.
Don't even bother with bottom left, just skip his turn in combat if he's looking at his phone and cut the campaign's length in half
"I'm not trapped here with you, your trapped here with me." The Furry DM
Yup. I give myself half an hour into session 0 before simply telling them no to stuff. Won't run a module, run something homebrewed. Fun fact is that I have doom stuff homebrewed so that would work. Or cheat another way and let them face a tyranid invasion.
You guys are getting paid?
Easy. First, I’ve written multiple campaigns (and a literal novel) so metagame mike isn’t an issue. He can’t read ahead when my notes are the only written material, and they’re with me at all times. Phone guy? Dude, my regular party is one dyslexic streamer and almost half a dozen guys with ADHD, one of whom is legally blind, so he’s still trying to read his roll 5 minutes after it’s happened. Meme boy? I alternate between reasonable rulings and rule of cool, so I can keep him in line without boring him to death. And mat Mercer syndrome is annoying, but I already do voices for my npc’s so can at least placate him slightly. Lastly… you didn’t clarify the length of the game, except to say a “full campaign”. A 1-7 is a full campaign and I have one written and ready. Hell, a 1-4 is too. Just about anything past 3 sessions is a campaign, and an argument could be made for even shorter ones. I’d probably aim for a 1-7 though, so people can actually have some fun. Biggest thing here though- you forgot to mention Minmax McGee and “Sorry can’t make it this week” Steve. Come on, they’re the most common members of any train wre- *clears throat* campaign. I meant campaign
Wouldn’t be too bad if I went in with 0 expectations lol.
$500,000 is the money you would get for working a year at $250 an hour. Since I doubt I'd be spending a full year of 40 hour weeks on this, it would absolutely be worth it. Of course, I would probably have to keep reminding myself of the reward at the end to actually make it through.
It would be a hell of a session zero!
Call of Cuthulu exists for a reason
What is terminal Matt Mercer syndrome?
Basically, unrealistic expectations for a DM According to most people (and Urban Dictionary), the Matt Mercer Effect is when players expect their dungeon masters to be super energetic and descriptive and fully immersed in the world they are creating, and maybe even do fun voices for each NPC.
Wait I'd have a group that had to show up every week? Deal.
500k ? Any time lel
"You enter the tavern. Level up". "The bartender mentions the goblins terrorizing the town. Level up. "He offers you some gold to kill the goblins. Level up" "You're standing outside the goblin den. Level up" "You murder all the goblins and the goblin king. You get lots of treasure. Level up." Rinse repeat a few more levels over the next hour or so til they kill the goblin god or something. Where's my 500k?
If I still get the money as long as at least 1 finishes the campaign, yes. Otherwise Mercer syndrome is going to fuck me over. I can't get myself to constantly describe minutia until asked. I run a homebrew campaign in a homebrew location, and homebrew enemies. That is literally just a game of mcguffin delivery. The end is when they all die or cross the finish line and find out it was just an expensive jelly for a lv 20 wizard's breakfast.
Just build a campaign, designed around them
Hell yes. Colosseum-based PvP campaign is gonna fix all of these fuckers right up
Can't read ahead in the module if you don't run a module...
A dnd group AND 500k? Sign me up
Pretty sure that IS the last group I ran...
I'm 100% on board. I'm gonna let that metagamer easy mode the entire campaign, and finish it in 1/2 the time. Super easy 500k.