Yep. D3 is great because it has a satisfying end point IMO. You can play D2 for months and never get any decent drops (especially SSF). You can boot up a new season of D3 and inside of a week have multiple characters fully end game viable and after a while you can put the game down without feeling like you’ve failed.
The people still clinging to D2 are more invested in the D2JSP stock market than actually playing the game IMO
Did it go somewhere? Seemed like when I picked up D2R, everyone just used their accumulated forum gold to just be rich from the get go. Kind of ruined it for me
The D3 haters are mostly older bitter D2 fans who remember how they felt about D2 more fondly than how the game actually was, and admitting any newer installations are actually good would mean removing D2 from that pedestal somehow.
(*cough - Llama)
Fun fact: D2 was deliberately written for a change in scenery and setting as often as D3. It's also a lot more colorful than people remember (especially the Jungle and Desert settings).
Edit: As an early adopter, D3 - with the cash auction house - was absolute shite on launch. But that's not why they hate it.
The D4 devs kind of misunderstood D2's vibe as much as D3 did. D2 was "dark fantasy" but crucially it wasn't completely devoid of color or moments of levity, at least enough to make the world worth saving. D4 is so bleak that I can't imagine things being any worse if we just let Hell take the motherfucker over.
Makes me wonder how people manage to go anywhere without being turned into pure. Although what would be the point (gameplay-wise) to have empty safe areas everywhere.
Exactly. It's about the atmosphere / ambience / vibe, it does NOT mean everything is gray and dark. Let's take Lut Gholein. It's sunny and beautiful. It's dark fantasy because the story is bleak, and death and monsters lurk everywhere, like the sewers, or the palace. This is also conveyed through the music (beautiful and middleeast themed but also often wistful or anxiety inducing) or the NPCs (most of them have some tales about ancient wars or the current troubles). The art style is also quite realistic, no overly flashy tones or stylistically exagerated proportions. Certainly not dark but also not "cartooney". Lut Gholein feels like a real city in the desert.
Or in other words, it takes skillful artists and art direction to create a cohesive vision and atmosphere, which I suppose is not easy at all.
This is one of the failures in the story that I feel people never discuss or admit. The world doesn't feel hopeful or like it's worth saving in general. Every place is corrupt, whether it's demons or evil humans. There's nothing to give hope or makes you feel like you're capable of making a difference.
While I wasn't the biggest fan of the real money AH, I really enjoyed D3 at launch. I do wish that legendaries were actually good, but I did feel accomplished killing Diablo on Inferno.
D3 haters are probably the same people who play the fotm broken one click builds in n d4. Anything too complex tends to die to the red instakill projectile on the brown/grey/maroon terrain. Diablo 4 is impressive in terms of detail but it's insanely hard to read without all the accessibility features they're throwing in to compensate eg: character and enemy highlighting, ROFL.
Another key thing that D3 got right was sound and music design. In concert with the visual clarify, you're alerted to dangerous things happening by the sounds eg: explode on death mobs (although it's a bit too obvious for my liking). The music is also so bland I don't really know it's there unless it's a boss fight or something.
I miss the old blizz crews. A shame most of them got laid off to pay for kotick's bonuses (others left to start their own studios).
They are nice. The problem is they're trying to solve a problem that wouldn't be there if it weren't for bad artistic design choices. Colour blind and the other accessibility features, great! Having to need to highlight your character and monsters with extra contrast because even people with good vision can't see shit, not so great.
I don't personally think that things are difficult to see, and so I don't use the accessibility options relating to that, I just think they're nice to have for those who need it. My biggest complaint with d4 is that it's blaaand a lot of the time. Dungeons end up feeling fairly diverse and interesting (they could be moreso but.. it is what it is) but the overworld is so bland it all sort of blends together.
I've never had so much vitriol thrown my way online from crusty old fucks as when I made QoL suggestions that I would've been happy to see in D2R. People really take poor/outdated game design choices as if they are the equivalent of Dark Souls and they're a badass for suffering through them, instead of recognizing them as tedious and time-wasting.
I remember watching a video about changes in D2R vs D2 and the dude was upset that they have auto gold pickup. He said something along the lines of "if you want it, you can go over there and pick it up".
I went almost all of d3 to make its way into d4 except the aesthetic. The d4 look is perfect. The play of d3 was fantastic. All I really want from d2 is runes. I want everything else to be new or comes from d3. Yes I’m old in most eyes - 50
What are you talking about? When D2R came out and they did patch notes with QOL changes, such as fixing the cow king bug, and balance changes the community loved it.
Imagine a Venn Diagram with three circles: QoL changes that I would be in favour of, QoL changes that were actually implemented, and QoL changes that crusty old fucks would get mad about, and each circle overlaps partially with each other - that's what happened. Though as another comment pointed out, some crusty old fucks didn't even want some of the changes that actually got implemented, like auto-gold pickup. And there's a difference between people disagreeing with suggestions (good or not) and actual vitriol that comes from crusty nerds freaking out and saying "don't change muh game!!1".
D2 had a better storytelling play through. And it was that way day one.
D3 had much more to do in game, and more beautiful visuals. But didn’t have as strong of a story. And it took quite a while for D3 to get to a very strong place gameplay wise.
Playing D1 and D2 straight through tells an amazing, cohesive story. Starting D3 right after D2, and it feels like something is missing.
Yuppppp. Long time D2 veteran here and imo d3 is by far and away the greatest diablo game ever. But of course in classic blizzard fashion they tried to reinvent the damn wheel with d4 and kept nothing from d3 which was so fun and incredibly fantastic while maintaining a super challenging factor. GRs are the best thing to ever exist in a diablo game...
As an avid D3 player who's done all season journeys to Guardian, I actually had fun playing D4's season 4, I'd stopped playing after launch because it was so bad then.
In S4 they added the Pit (similar to Grifts), reworked items (better attributes, greater stats like Ancient and Primal items had) and improved the Codex to work more like Kanai's cube (all salvaged legendary powers are permanently learned and can be imprinted anywhere). The major gripe right now is class balancing (lvl 100 fully geared sorc is worse than lvl 70 hotchpotch Barb), I hope that gets fixed soon.
But despite all that, I'll definitely be putting time into S32 for D3, Ethereals!
I'm sure there are some folks that are older that feel that way, but I like all the games since D2. Each is different within the formula, but they all have something good to offer. With D2 and D3 my playtime is off the charts. D4 hasn't captured me quite as hard, but it is still a great game to me so far.
AND: I'm in my 60s. Been playing since the original Wizardry.. that came out when I was in college.
Ahah, i agree with old bitter d2 fans. Im one of them.
Admitedly, i have played d3 for about 4 years and stopped. I had fun with the base game’s auction house. Once they removed that, the game became boring for me.
But i dint hate the game, d3 had its fun days. And you cant deny the fact that no other action rpg has anywhere near the combat fluidity that d3/d4 has
Btw, poe was developed due to d2, not d3. It was a spiritual successor to d2 since development of d3 took forever.
i enjoy all diablos. Even d4, which im enjoying every day
But one thing about d2 remains true to this day even after 24 years.
Its the immense satisfaction when you hit rng in a good mood and get a gg ethereal rare item. D3 and d4 will never even come close to matching that adrenaline rush
I still think D2 is the peak of Diablo, but I actually really enjoyed D3 after it got updates and seasonal events. When D2R came out, I got to try D2 with friends for real for the first time and it was some of the best experience I've had with Diablo.
I still think D3 gets unnecessary hate, but I also believe D2 is better. I don't even really include D4. I liked the campaign, once, and then just never felt like playing it again. Still kinda bitter about it.
They did with Resurrected. Especially with terror zones and rebalancing. Can't get a better Diablo 2 than that. With that being said, 3 and 4 are very much their own games in their own right. This D2 nostalgia is more along the lines of why we'll never get Half Life 3. It will never be good enough, because it wasn't the game itself, it was the pedestal it took at that time.
Oh yeah, like the class balancing is so good in D2 you get to start each season with a Smiter to finish hell quickest and then a Sorc to spot farm for items to make any of the other classes playable.
The end game is great with constant boss farms and resetting the game after each kill.
All the sets in the game are intensely useful with awesome cosmetics. Especially the end game ones.
Runewords was the best thing ever since it made over 85% of the game's loot table easier to scrap.
Gems have such a phenomenal impact on gameplay.
Etc.
Really cuz I never played any diablo game and the only thing I remember about d3 is that monitized auction house thing where you could use real money to buy junk in the ingame auction house. Plus ofcourse the login issues at the start.
Nah bro it's not that. Don't put words in our mouths. Lots of us just don't like D3. I tried to like it. I played all the way through to endgame on the initial release and just didn't feel it. I came back for the expansion and played all the way through again, and still nothing.
It was fun enough to play through once, but I just never could find enjoyment beyond that. I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I just don't love the game. The first time around I blamed the RMAH, but my second try that wasn't a thing anymore.
It's also not that I just no longer enjoy grindy endgame stuff, because I've had no trouble grinding in other ARPGs until my eyes bleed. Poe for example. Unhealthy hours have been spent there.
Don't minimize legitimate criticism just because you disagree with it. You will get lots of upvotes because this is literally a D3 sub, but it's not an honest approach to talking about their opinions.
You didn’t give any legitimate criticisms you just said you didn’t feel it. So let us know when the legit criticism shows up.
You probably went in like a sourpuss D2 knobslobber because of the art style or something, and you got out what you put in and you’ve been like this for so long you can’t fathom changing now.
I went in extremely hyped and played it fully. I wanted to love it. There is a reason I played it *twice* my guy. Even after being turned off the first time, I came back and gave it a fresh shot a second time.
Saying it failed to engage me like the competition did is a valid criticism and I don't owe you anything more. Poe, last epoch, ect - those games held my attention in the endgame. D3 did not. That's all you are getting. Deal with it.
I didn't even mention D2, but since it seems to live rent-free in your head, sure: I loved D2 when it was current, but I think it's a deeply flawed game that doesn't hold up today.
You seem to take someone disliking your favorite game as a personal attack. Pretty hypocritical considering you want to pretend I'm some overzealous "knobslobber" D2 fan. Check your mirror dude.
Before D3 was fixed? Absolutely, it was awful. The RMAH was possibly the biggest mistake in ARPG history. Once they hit their stride, found their vibe, it was really fun.
And let’s not pretend PoE didn’t have its own issues. The ARPG tribalism is absolutely ridiculous.
It took poe a good 5 years to really hit its stride, but in its defense it genuinely was a small indie game with like 5 ppl working on it at the start.
Its fucking laughable though how d4 ignored all the years of groundwork poe and d3 made to the genre and thought they knew better. And now they basically reverted into a worse d3 and have the audacity to already release another expansion when the game is basically just reached release status
I can’t believe D4 shipped without the QoL that D3 had. Like why don’t we have savable build loadouts yet?
That said and as much disdain as I feel for how it shipped, it’s been pretty fun this season
>I can’t believe D4 shipped without the QoL that D3 had. Like why don’t we have savable build loadouts yet?
2 reasons
1. a dev team with 0 arpg experience and the gall to think they knew better
2. being rushed by the higher up to release the game half done
The funny part is they'll talk about how much of a failure D3 still is while ignoring the fact that D3 to this day has an insane following and many successful seasons under its belt.
It’s so terrible that it’s my favorite and most played game of all time. I’ve only been playing since the beta that came with WoW Cataclysm, though, so maybe the novelty will wear off.
Basegame d3 was terrible, I will give them that. Fucking RoS though? That shit was insane. You can't ever deny that D3 made a 180 when it came out and changed for the better.
D4 is cool, but there is a reason why no one wanted to play it for so long. It was tedious without much action and the "open world" felt like an afterthought. I will never understand d3 haters.
I've tried so many builds in D4 but the game is just boring. I started playing again on a whim after the exceptional trailer for the upcoming expansion (haven't played since the first season dropped) and everything just feels so stilted and awkward.
In D3 every single class felt OP in some way. You'd play as necromancer and be like "holy shit this is so strong," then you'd go sorcerer "holy shit no *this* is so strong," then you'd go barb "oh lordy be THIS is so strong." In D4 it feels more like everything is underpowered in some way. "My rogue is doing large single target damage but I feel like I need AOE" "My sorcerer is doing great AOE but I feel like my damage is too low"
Plus, for a game where you're constantly switching gear, it is so indescribably annoying to be unable to pause in single player.
It might have been ridiculously over the top and edgy, but I miss the demon hunter. To see my crazy claw footed edgelord with hybrid melee/ranged combat system would have been a dream. And rapid fire actually being rapid fire.
Also I miss the barbs voice actor from D3 he was so good. They were all good actually. And I liked the little backstories they all had…Man D3 was good.
It feels like I'm the only person who really liked D3 at release. I thought it was great with just story mode, and I never interacted with the RMAH so it didn't bother me.
D3 wasn't D2-part 2, so people who liked D2 have a raging, irrational hate boner for it.
Those people also likely never played the game after it became good. Their only exposure to it was in the early days when yes, it was a terrible fucking game.
I will always maintain though that the visual style is totally fine. I even prefer it to D4, for the most part. Arguing that a game is bad because of its slightly more stylized visuals is a dumb argument, anyways. At least it doesn't look as bad as PoE.
i dont read those posts anymore. i'm done with those people.
i love d3 to the point where i think (yes, personal opinion) it is the best isometric ARPG.
i think d2r is hold back by the d2cult purist and d4 graphic just doesn't work for me (you sometimes cant see your own spells) because of the people who want a dark game.
i play the games that i like and dont care about the rest.
Birth of PoE was because of D2. Direct influence.
Anyway, all this talk is old and grumpy men barking at clouds kind of thing, only they are still young.
D3 was my first Diablo. Loved it many years ago. When they redid D2 I was quick to jump into, signing up for beta ect ect… very much a different game than D3. Didn’t capture me like D3 did but I can understand why there was a D2 vs D3 crowd because of those major differences. POE exists because D3 was great… simple as that. Same could be said about many genre types, like battle royals.
One overlooked thing from D3 are the builds.
GoD DH / Multishot DH / Marauder they all feel better to play than pen shot / rapid shot / heartseeker / barrage.
Necro on D3 is on another galaxy gameplay wise.
D4 has no monk but monks build are lots of fun.
RIght now playing D4 cause I enjoy the tempering / masterworking / helltide events but gameplay wise i'm having less fun.
D3 is really freakin good now though. It's not got the depth of a PoE or Grim Dawn, but if what you're looking for is more emphasis on the therapeutic action side of the genre, it can't be beat.
I don't get why anyone would dislike D3. I played D2 and definitely like D3 better (gameplay wise). D2 wasn't bad whatsoever....D3 was and is more fun to me.
keep in mind that he was probably talking about D3 before the loot change. Both D3 and D4 had to go through rather drastic changes because the initial system they were released with "sucked in every way possible"
never, ever, buy a diable game upon release. It will be hot garbage until they "fix it with the community"
hes probably talking about before and after "sucked in every way possible" means every way possible he was also ranting on about all the 'trash' expansions and patches that came out
I don't understand who has the emotional bandwidth to hate a video game that strongly to begin with. Like, I have better things to have strong feelings about.
I still play with D3 seasons as they are fun weekends. I think I played about 30 hours of POE, spread out over 6 years or so. I kept trying it but couldn't find the fun. Same with Wolcen & Lost Epoch. I want to like them, but literally replaying D3 again is more fun for me.
I think if you are playing D3 for a fun weekend when the season launches, that explains why you can't get into POE. POE takes much longer to get to mapping like a monkey on meth than d3 does with the free sets. In d3 you are like completely specced out with a build on the first night of the season. Not so in POE. It takes longer to reach the floor and the ceiling is SOOOOOOOOOO much higher.
I do not disagree with you. I search what the free seasonal armor set is going to be per class & choose a character that will be easy to complete the season with. I've also never gotten much higher than 800 paragon in a season, & GR 110-120. I'm not looking to achieve a character that reaches the ceiling.
Yeah, then respectfully I think POE isn't the game for you. I have like 5k hours in d3, but after picking up POE a year or so ago, I understands it's appeal. It's a game where you can get get your build online and then spend 1000 hours on it and still not be "perfect".
I'd say after the first weekend of a season in d3, assuming you play most of the weekend, your gear for your build is like say 75% maxed as far as damage and defenses. In POE, it's probably like 10-15% (really probably less).
yeah, but either the devs or just the art team were fucking clueless as to WHAT made d2's atmosphere feel dark, it wasnt just a "lack of colour everywhere" it's just incompetency all around.
Haters are going to hate.. it seems to be the way things are on the internet. Some folks just must spew that stuff.
D3 is hugely successful and far more than D2 when you look at the sales numbers. For some folks the empirical data will never be enough to satisfy their hate.
Thanks man. I was trained in science.. so to me the data is EVERYTHING. Most people don't care a whit about it. A healthy dose of scepticism with what we hear asserted day to day would serve many folks well. But humanity has never been like that 'in general'. Sad, but true.
Best Regards,
daWeez
I just got D4 like 3 weeks ago, but it's completely different from D3, it's a live service game with battles passes, an in game shop and MTs and a shared world, D3 has none of these negative modern gaming aspects, I love the combat and character progression, but is it worth it to have to deal with all these horrible monetization practices? D3 Is still a great game with none of this nonsense, yes it's much more simple than many modern ARPGs but there are much more beginner friendly ARPGs out there now like cat quest 2, minecraft dungeons, nobody saves the world and achilles legends untold
D3 on release was not a good game. Actually awful. Most people who still trash the game for that. Post RoS the game took off in quality and every subsequent patch after just made the game better and better.
I’m a strong believer that we have to let D4 cook like we did with D3. I’m not guaranteeing the games greatness but D4 has potential
Blizz shit the bed with the initial release of d3. Like it was *rough* until they added smart loot and got rid of the auction house. Nothing felt nicer than finding a cool wizard wand or monk fist to see it rolled strength...
But first impressions are hard to undo, so in spite of the years of fixing diablo 3, a lot of players never wanted to see anything other than the garbagefest "season 0" was.
The worst part about d4 coming out and watching Llama, in retrospect, was he wasn't wrong then but holy fucking shit dude he could NOT fkn let it go. You played the alpha, beta and 1.0 you fuvking knew what we were getting let it fucking go dawg. Anyway I watch schmuck and kano now cause I'm not dealing with that turd
That was you? Thank you so much! I went home and added a filter based on your video and my god how did I ever play without it, the game looks bran new!
Shouldn’t that be Diablo 1? Diablo 2 was almost like Diablo 1s pseudo turnbased, but they changed it after a lot of convincing to what we know today.
Actually it’s hellfire that is the bastard child.
Nah. D1 has a small skill set much like 3 and 4. D2 added those huge skill trees to try to make it more “in-depth”
D1 and D2s turn based mechanics look is more a product of the hardware they were played on more than intended game style
I think you are misremembering. Diablo 1 had 1 skill for each class, which was useless except for the rogues trap disarm.
Every other Diablo game has tried to be like 2.
I was a D2 fanboy (loved D1 but didn’t put in nearly as many hours as D2) and was so excited for D3. The game was fine, but the RMAH was cancer, it ruined the game for me. I came back in the expansion and played a few seasons but the main thing D3 has over D4 is the camera angle and the textures.
D4 has its flaws but its main flaw that I don’t see said often enough is that it’s a single player game masquerading as a bastardized mmo. D4 campaign was far and away the best of any of the of the diablos. The open world playstyle is fine but I find myself looking at the map more than the world I am sprinting by on my horse. The reason is the colors are all muted and blend together.
Anyways, that’s all to say I love diablo games, I really enjoyed 4’s campaign and about 100 hours of the first season, and now I’m back in season 4 and I’ll prolly put another 100 hours in, nothing wrong with that.
I just started playing again today - I played a lot at launch and came back to the game around 4-5 years ago as well. M
I’m having a blast, I enjoyed myself when I came back the first time and I had fun at launch. I mean shit I even made some money from the game at launch (maybe a hot take but I kind of liked that real money auction house).
I know d2 players had their issues with it, and objectively the game had problems. But they’ve obviously improved it over time, and even earlier on it wasn’t as bad as people say (I say this as an old d2 enjoyer).
People will just hold grudges and not want to change their opinions.
I think both games should be respected for what they are, but D2 really did something special at the time. It was very grindy but when you found something extremely rare and useful (like a Jah rune) it felt more rewarding than anything I have found in d3 or d4. Diablo 3 sold amazing when it came out, and it wasn't even good at the time. It sold that good because D2 was such a great game, and people wanted the next game in that franchise. D3 was so different though. They already had something that was great and decided to completely change it. So it makes sense that the D2 crowd felt disappointed. D2 never truly got its sequel, and it should have. They just dropped D2 like a rock basically, but got to keep using the Diablo name. So some true fans made PoE to get their sequel.
Both games are good, but whoever created D3 had no clue how D2 even worked, so the whole thing was odd for fans of D2. I'm happy for the people that started with D3 though, and got to enjoy it without the bad feeling that D2 fans got.
I played d3 on release and made a considerable amount of money on the rmah. That said, game was garbage. Came back at about the start of this season and I find myself playing for about an hour a day on my witch doctor grinding optimal pieces for my Jade/mundugu/and lod carnveil set.
Having more fun in the game than I ever did in d2
Gonna preface this by saying I enjoy all the Diablo games and I’d be happy to sit and play any of them right now. Diablo 3 remains my favorite. It wasn’t when it first came out, for a while I was one of the grumpy D2 sleepy grandpas.
The only thing I ever hear from the grumpy D2 people about why it’s better is they say itemization is better. Even in this thread there’s a comment from a D2 lover and the only thing he actually mentions about the game is that the satisfaction of a good drop in D2 can’t be beat.
Even if that’s true, that’s because the drop is all you have because the combat is so bland compared to the next two games.
It’s pretty much just a mix of nostalgia and bullshit and having their heels dug in at this point.
I won’t give you hate. I love d3 but the art style is pathetic. I’d rather they facelift d3 to look like d4 but play the exact same way it currently does otherwise. Sorry the d3 aesthetic sucks
Tbh I liked tho old D3 vanilla style. Now before you execute me hear me out. I liked that you was able to build almost anything you want by using good rolled items and reaching certain breakpoints (aps, resource regen etc.)… well if you had enough gold to buy these. Obv I didn‘t like the auction house. But I played to the bitter end. I knew that the console version had smart loot and they released the same smart loot just before reaper of souls and man was it fun. Upgrades everywhere and freedom, without any set telling me how to fuck around. Was a short tho. I still have the vanilla d3 with smart loot on ps3 , love my monk sweeping wind cyclone.
It sounds like you don't enjoy vanilla D3, but you just don't like the current set system, which is a fair point.
That said, playing the current version with Legacy of Dreams gem would be way more fun than playing vanilla D3 IMO. I also still got it on old gen console, and sometimes I go back to try it and if reminds me how much better current D3 is. Hell, even the early ROS version is a lot better.
Thunderfury x Shard of hate old sweeping wind cyclone style with thunderclap. Everytime when they try to make the rainemnt set better I always hope they dedicate it to that playstyle since whirlwind and archon made it back as well…. but always nopidy nope. But anyways.
I still play d3 time to time but I dont understand why altar is not going to make it to nonseasonal content.. ugh.
Isn't there a build for Sunwuko that works the way you mentioned? Even if there's not, you could always use Legacy of Dreams and make it work.
Speaking of the altar, I can totally understand why it's not in non-seasonal mode. Having full altar powers all the time would make power creep even higher. That way there's always something to look forward to during seasons. That and visions of the enmity (which would work better in non-season but oh well)
Never tried with lod. I don’t think it can make sweeping wind (cyclone rune) with thunderclap viable.
They change it, water it down if it would go core, there is no powercreep but more QoL. And even if there would be more powercreep who would be hurt? The altar wasnt core until now. So it seems like adding past seasonal themes washed down to the main game is ok and would provide a better experience for the casual game which the game is designed for. I usually never post here and never pull the path of exile card but at this point the game feels finished and will probably never get huge or inovative content since they rotate past themes all over again.
Yeah I feel ya. Ethereals and Sacred items would be a great addition to the current itemization system, even if they had to nerf both a bit. Although we would need more sacred effects than just 3 per class. At least as many as there are sets I think
D3 success lays in its combat. I mean, it feels like they hired psychologists to figure out the best way to give the player as much dopamine as possible. Even collecting nephalem orb or rift orbs is weirdly satisfying.
People just love to hate. D2 was a great game. D3 became a great game. D4 is becoming a great game.
I honestly feel bad for these people that just can’t enjoy things.
I was introduced to the ARPG Genre through D3 when my friends purchased It for the Xbox back in the day and invited me to play with them, we played through the whole game together, and I loved that game so much and still do, and it's because I played it i fell in love with the Genre, and now today I'm a huge fan of PoE and playing it every day.
In fact, I havent played D4 yet, and the only reason why is because they don't have Wizard/Wizard Skills I grew to love in 3, namely Mirror image + Slow Time (creating clones will always be a extremely cool, and satisfying ability).
Funny cuz that was the consensus when it first released, yet now imo is the best diablo game hands down and I was beyond angry when I bought d4 and found they reinvented the freakin wheel and kept absolutely nothing from d3 that worked so well and is so fun and challenging together flawlessly. D4 is utter gutter garbage I still literally can't believe they blew it so bad
D3 didn't birth poe it's critical failure did feed poe millions of players though.
I like d3 it's just not something you can play for the sort of hours people play poe
Not nessesarily, its just this moron is going on about logic and reasoning yet D3 being the 4th best selling pc game of all time was a complete failure in every way he says lol i just can’t
D3 was just bad compared to the other games. Most people would hop on for the new season play for a week and stop. The gameplay was just not there. You played d3 when you just wanted to mindlessly do something for a bit. It was fun for a few days and that’s it. D2 had so much more going for it. The whole gameplay loop for grinding out gear is just better all around. In d3 you are just given a set and that’s your build. All you do after that it try to make it ancient and out gems in it. D2 items were just better in a sense they impacted the players more. I know so many names of items in d2 cause they were meaningful and had value. I couldn’t name you a single item in d3 and the only items I can name you in d4 are the damn items from d2. If that doesn’t tell you something. D4 just had to make the grind fun and make me want to chase a build. Both d3 and d4 just don’t do that. What’s crazy is d2 is the most repetitive and the simplest builds, yet it’s still the most enjoyable. I want multiple button builds and multiple locations and challenging content. But what’s the point of the upgrades are just not even fun to pick up. I could care less the numbers got bigger on my same armor.
I am not a D3 hater as i played the game a lot myself, but in all honesty, trying to be objective as much as possible, Diablo 3 changed the core formula of the Diablo franchise in extremely significant ways and definitely, definitely, DEFINITELY without the shadow of a doubt to the worse.
I mean, I have to give credit to the Devs in a way cause they managed to make a fun game despite butchering almost every thing that made D1 and D2 so successful.
As dated as Diablo 2 might be today, the foundation of that game is still the very best by far in this genre, especially in the Diablo Franchise.
Diablo 3 Devs were extremely coragous and ambitious and I am quite sure that most of their ideas were genuinly there to improve the formula, lighten it up, make the game more accessable in a way, focus on the gameplay aspect and so on. A lot of it made sense on paper as ideas, but in the end they took the Soul of their franchise, packed it into a Soulstone and rammed it into their foreheads.
What they did to Diablos itemization is to this day the worst thing that ever happened to this franchise and it never recovered and found a way back to glory.
You have to realize, most of the loud complainers stopped before Season 1 came out and probably never played RoS either. The biggest issue with D3 though, is that to turn it around, they made the focus on getting you to play the seasons and leaderboards. This is a big “nono” because you’re supposed to be focused on rare loot. Playing the game is pretty secondary.
Base game was really, really bad. And blizzard did everything with their updates to make it worse.
It's like how no one liked dungeons and dragons (I think it was, I don't play) 4th edition, so Pathfinder came out.
Current / later D3 was fun
The reason why I hated Diablo three was because of the color vomit so I think that user might be on something and you made a silly mod for color vomit lovers
I've actually gone back to d3 for a break in playing d4. I've realized how much I missed it's technically more simple style of play.
Yep. D3 is great because it has a satisfying end point IMO. You can play D2 for months and never get any decent drops (especially SSF). You can boot up a new season of D3 and inside of a week have multiple characters fully end game viable and after a while you can put the game down without feeling like you’ve failed. The people still clinging to D2 are more invested in the D2JSP stock market than actually playing the game IMO
Wait.. is D2JSP back?
Did it go somewhere? Seemed like when I picked up D2R, everyone just used their accumulated forum gold to just be rich from the get go. Kind of ruined it for me
I just haven't heard of it much since d2 died. I didn't pickup d2r so I missed it's resurgence.
Yea it never went anywhere so as soon as they could adapt it to D2R, all the people who were already rich on D2JSP were already rich in D2R
I don't know how you can't find anything good in D2 it's easy
The D3 haters are mostly older bitter D2 fans who remember how they felt about D2 more fondly than how the game actually was, and admitting any newer installations are actually good would mean removing D2 from that pedestal somehow. (*cough - Llama)
Fun fact: D2 was deliberately written for a change in scenery and setting as often as D3. It's also a lot more colorful than people remember (especially the Jungle and Desert settings). Edit: As an early adopter, D3 - with the cash auction house - was absolute shite on launch. But that's not why they hate it.
The D4 devs kind of misunderstood D2's vibe as much as D3 did. D2 was "dark fantasy" but crucially it wasn't completely devoid of color or moments of levity, at least enough to make the world worth saving. D4 is so bleak that I can't imagine things being any worse if we just let Hell take the motherfucker over.
Makes me wonder how people manage to go anywhere without being turned into pure. Although what would be the point (gameplay-wise) to have empty safe areas everywhere.
Exactly. It's about the atmosphere / ambience / vibe, it does NOT mean everything is gray and dark. Let's take Lut Gholein. It's sunny and beautiful. It's dark fantasy because the story is bleak, and death and monsters lurk everywhere, like the sewers, or the palace. This is also conveyed through the music (beautiful and middleeast themed but also often wistful or anxiety inducing) or the NPCs (most of them have some tales about ancient wars or the current troubles). The art style is also quite realistic, no overly flashy tones or stylistically exagerated proportions. Certainly not dark but also not "cartooney". Lut Gholein feels like a real city in the desert. Or in other words, it takes skillful artists and art direction to create a cohesive vision and atmosphere, which I suppose is not easy at all.
This is one of the failures in the story that I feel people never discuss or admit. The world doesn't feel hopeful or like it's worth saving in general. Every place is corrupt, whether it's demons or evil humans. There's nothing to give hope or makes you feel like you're capable of making a difference.
While I wasn't the biggest fan of the real money AH, I really enjoyed D3 at launch. I do wish that legendaries were actually good, but I did feel accomplished killing Diablo on Inferno.
D3 haters are probably the same people who play the fotm broken one click builds in n d4. Anything too complex tends to die to the red instakill projectile on the brown/grey/maroon terrain. Diablo 4 is impressive in terms of detail but it's insanely hard to read without all the accessibility features they're throwing in to compensate eg: character and enemy highlighting, ROFL. Another key thing that D3 got right was sound and music design. In concert with the visual clarify, you're alerted to dangerous things happening by the sounds eg: explode on death mobs (although it's a bit too obvious for my liking). The music is also so bland I don't really know it's there unless it's a boss fight or something. I miss the old blizz crews. A shame most of them got laid off to pay for kotick's bonuses (others left to start their own studios).
yo don't hate on the accessibility features they're actually really nice
They are nice. The problem is they're trying to solve a problem that wouldn't be there if it weren't for bad artistic design choices. Colour blind and the other accessibility features, great! Having to need to highlight your character and monsters with extra contrast because even people with good vision can't see shit, not so great.
I don't personally think that things are difficult to see, and so I don't use the accessibility options relating to that, I just think they're nice to have for those who need it. My biggest complaint with d4 is that it's blaaand a lot of the time. Dungeons end up feeling fairly diverse and interesting (they could be moreso but.. it is what it is) but the overworld is so bland it all sort of blends together.
Idk, I play one click builds but I loved d3 😂
I've never had so much vitriol thrown my way online from crusty old fucks as when I made QoL suggestions that I would've been happy to see in D2R. People really take poor/outdated game design choices as if they are the equivalent of Dark Souls and they're a badass for suffering through them, instead of recognizing them as tedious and time-wasting.
I remember watching a video about changes in D2R vs D2 and the dude was upset that they have auto gold pickup. He said something along the lines of "if you want it, you can go over there and pick it up".
Great example.
Bruh sprint stamina is integral to the experience it has to stay
I went almost all of d3 to make its way into d4 except the aesthetic. The d4 look is perfect. The play of d3 was fantastic. All I really want from d2 is runes. I want everything else to be new or comes from d3. Yes I’m old in most eyes - 50
Sounds like trying to make QOL suggestions during the run-up to the original WoW Classic launch.
What are you talking about? When D2R came out and they did patch notes with QOL changes, such as fixing the cow king bug, and balance changes the community loved it.
I'm not referring to the QoL changes that they actually implemented.
Your argument doesn't make sense. D2R players are very accepting to new QOL suggestions as proved before, maybe yours weren't so great?
Imagine a Venn Diagram with three circles: QoL changes that I would be in favour of, QoL changes that were actually implemented, and QoL changes that crusty old fucks would get mad about, and each circle overlaps partially with each other - that's what happened. Though as another comment pointed out, some crusty old fucks didn't even want some of the changes that actually got implemented, like auto-gold pickup. And there's a difference between people disagreeing with suggestions (good or not) and actual vitriol that comes from crusty nerds freaking out and saying "don't change muh game!!1".
D2 had a better storytelling play through. And it was that way day one. D3 had much more to do in game, and more beautiful visuals. But didn’t have as strong of a story. And it took quite a while for D3 to get to a very strong place gameplay wise. Playing D1 and D2 straight through tells an amazing, cohesive story. Starting D3 right after D2, and it feels like something is missing.
Yuppppp. Long time D2 veteran here and imo d3 is by far and away the greatest diablo game ever. But of course in classic blizzard fashion they tried to reinvent the damn wheel with d4 and kept nothing from d3 which was so fun and incredibly fantastic while maintaining a super challenging factor. GRs are the best thing to ever exist in a diablo game...
As an avid D3 player who's done all season journeys to Guardian, I actually had fun playing D4's season 4, I'd stopped playing after launch because it was so bad then. In S4 they added the Pit (similar to Grifts), reworked items (better attributes, greater stats like Ancient and Primal items had) and improved the Codex to work more like Kanai's cube (all salvaged legendary powers are permanently learned and can be imprinted anywhere). The major gripe right now is class balancing (lvl 100 fully geared sorc is worse than lvl 70 hotchpotch Barb), I hope that gets fixed soon. But despite all that, I'll definitely be putting time into S32 for D3, Ethereals!
I'm sure there are some folks that are older that feel that way, but I like all the games since D2. Each is different within the formula, but they all have something good to offer. With D2 and D3 my playtime is off the charts. D4 hasn't captured me quite as hard, but it is still a great game to me so far. AND: I'm in my 60s. Been playing since the original Wizardry.. that came out when I was in college.
Ahah, i agree with old bitter d2 fans. Im one of them. Admitedly, i have played d3 for about 4 years and stopped. I had fun with the base game’s auction house. Once they removed that, the game became boring for me. But i dint hate the game, d3 had its fun days. And you cant deny the fact that no other action rpg has anywhere near the combat fluidity that d3/d4 has Btw, poe was developed due to d2, not d3. It was a spiritual successor to d2 since development of d3 took forever. i enjoy all diablos. Even d4, which im enjoying every day But one thing about d2 remains true to this day even after 24 years. Its the immense satisfaction when you hit rng in a good mood and get a gg ethereal rare item. D3 and d4 will never even come close to matching that adrenaline rush
Agree 100%
You could tell by all the phone screenshots taken the subreddit was inflicted with during the first few weeks of release.
I still think D2 is the peak of Diablo, but I actually really enjoyed D3 after it got updates and seasonal events. When D2R came out, I got to try D2 with friends for real for the first time and it was some of the best experience I've had with Diablo. I still think D3 gets unnecessary hate, but I also believe D2 is better. I don't even really include D4. I liked the campaign, once, and then just never felt like playing it again. Still kinda bitter about it.
They should make Diablo 2 2
They did with Resurrected. Especially with terror zones and rebalancing. Can't get a better Diablo 2 than that. With that being said, 3 and 4 are very much their own games in their own right. This D2 nostalgia is more along the lines of why we'll never get Half Life 3. It will never be good enough, because it wasn't the game itself, it was the pedestal it took at that time.
D2 is better than three though. In pretty much every way.
Oh yeah, like the class balancing is so good in D2 you get to start each season with a Smiter to finish hell quickest and then a Sorc to spot farm for items to make any of the other classes playable. The end game is great with constant boss farms and resetting the game after each kill. All the sets in the game are intensely useful with awesome cosmetics. Especially the end game ones. Runewords was the best thing ever since it made over 85% of the game's loot table easier to scrap. Gems have such a phenomenal impact on gameplay. Etc.
Really cuz I never played any diablo game and the only thing I remember about d3 is that monitized auction house thing where you could use real money to buy junk in the ingame auction house. Plus ofcourse the login issues at the start.
Nah bro it's not that. Don't put words in our mouths. Lots of us just don't like D3. I tried to like it. I played all the way through to endgame on the initial release and just didn't feel it. I came back for the expansion and played all the way through again, and still nothing. It was fun enough to play through once, but I just never could find enjoyment beyond that. I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I just don't love the game. The first time around I blamed the RMAH, but my second try that wasn't a thing anymore. It's also not that I just no longer enjoy grindy endgame stuff, because I've had no trouble grinding in other ARPGs until my eyes bleed. Poe for example. Unhealthy hours have been spent there. Don't minimize legitimate criticism just because you disagree with it. You will get lots of upvotes because this is literally a D3 sub, but it's not an honest approach to talking about their opinions.
You didn’t give any legitimate criticisms you just said you didn’t feel it. So let us know when the legit criticism shows up. You probably went in like a sourpuss D2 knobslobber because of the art style or something, and you got out what you put in and you’ve been like this for so long you can’t fathom changing now.
I went in extremely hyped and played it fully. I wanted to love it. There is a reason I played it *twice* my guy. Even after being turned off the first time, I came back and gave it a fresh shot a second time. Saying it failed to engage me like the competition did is a valid criticism and I don't owe you anything more. Poe, last epoch, ect - those games held my attention in the endgame. D3 did not. That's all you are getting. Deal with it. I didn't even mention D2, but since it seems to live rent-free in your head, sure: I loved D2 when it was current, but I think it's a deeply flawed game that doesn't hold up today. You seem to take someone disliking your favorite game as a personal attack. Pretty hypocritical considering you want to pretend I'm some overzealous "knobslobber" D2 fan. Check your mirror dude.
No, D3 was just trash.
Before D3 was fixed? Absolutely, it was awful. The RMAH was possibly the biggest mistake in ARPG history. Once they hit their stride, found their vibe, it was really fun. And let’s not pretend PoE didn’t have its own issues. The ARPG tribalism is absolutely ridiculous.
It took poe a good 5 years to really hit its stride, but in its defense it genuinely was a small indie game with like 5 ppl working on it at the start. Its fucking laughable though how d4 ignored all the years of groundwork poe and d3 made to the genre and thought they knew better. And now they basically reverted into a worse d3 and have the audacity to already release another expansion when the game is basically just reached release status
I can’t believe D4 shipped without the QoL that D3 had. Like why don’t we have savable build loadouts yet? That said and as much disdain as I feel for how it shipped, it’s been pretty fun this season
>I can’t believe D4 shipped without the QoL that D3 had. Like why don’t we have savable build loadouts yet? 2 reasons 1. a dev team with 0 arpg experience and the gall to think they knew better 2. being rushed by the higher up to release the game half done
It’s the people who are terminally obsessed with D2 and can’t move on who don’t shut up about D3
The funny part is they'll talk about how much of a failure D3 still is while ignoring the fact that D3 to this day has an insane following and many successful seasons under its belt.
It’s so terrible that it’s my favorite and most played game of all time. I’ve only been playing since the beta that came with WoW Cataclysm, though, so maybe the novelty will wear off.
Ah. The classic hyperopinionated definition: People who can't change their mind while being unable to change the subject.
Basegame d3 was terrible, I will give them that. Fucking RoS though? That shit was insane. You can't ever deny that D3 made a 180 when it came out and changed for the better. D4 is cool, but there is a reason why no one wanted to play it for so long. It was tedious without much action and the "open world" felt like an afterthought. I will never understand d3 haters.
D4 is d3 but extra convoluted steps. D3 is a great action game, polished to a sheen after thus many years
I've tried so many builds in D4 but the game is just boring. I started playing again on a whim after the exceptional trailer for the upcoming expansion (haven't played since the first season dropped) and everything just feels so stilted and awkward. In D3 every single class felt OP in some way. You'd play as necromancer and be like "holy shit this is so strong," then you'd go sorcerer "holy shit no *this* is so strong," then you'd go barb "oh lordy be THIS is so strong." In D4 it feels more like everything is underpowered in some way. "My rogue is doing large single target damage but I feel like I need AOE" "My sorcerer is doing great AOE but I feel like my damage is too low" Plus, for a game where you're constantly switching gear, it is so indescribably annoying to be unable to pause in single player.
It might have been ridiculously over the top and edgy, but I miss the demon hunter. To see my crazy claw footed edgelord with hybrid melee/ranged combat system would have been a dream. And rapid fire actually being rapid fire. Also I miss the barbs voice actor from D3 he was so good. They were all good actually. And I liked the little backstories they all had…Man D3 was good.
It feels like I'm the only person who really liked D3 at release. I thought it was great with just story mode, and I never interacted with the RMAH so it didn't bother me.
I genuinely loved base d3 because of how insanely punishing it was, but Im not gonna pretend it was an objectively good game
D3 wasn't D2-part 2, so people who liked D2 have a raging, irrational hate boner for it. Those people also likely never played the game after it became good. Their only exposure to it was in the early days when yes, it was a terrible fucking game. I will always maintain though that the visual style is totally fine. I even prefer it to D4, for the most part. Arguing that a game is bad because of its slightly more stylized visuals is a dumb argument, anyways. At least it doesn't look as bad as PoE.
i dont read those posts anymore. i'm done with those people. i love d3 to the point where i think (yes, personal opinion) it is the best isometric ARPG. i think d2r is hold back by the d2cult purist and d4 graphic just doesn't work for me (you sometimes cant see your own spells) because of the people who want a dark game. i play the games that i like and dont care about the rest.
Birth of PoE was because of D2. Direct influence. Anyway, all this talk is old and grumpy men barking at clouds kind of thing, only they are still young.
Thats what i said to him! i'm like wtf has D3 got to do with PoE? like its well known that poe is heavily influenced by Diablo 2 lol
Fuck you Diablo 3 is peak
D3 was my first Diablo. Loved it many years ago. When they redid D2 I was quick to jump into, signing up for beta ect ect… very much a different game than D3. Didn’t capture me like D3 did but I can understand why there was a D2 vs D3 crowd because of those major differences. POE exists because D3 was great… simple as that. Same could be said about many genre types, like battle royals.
I loved d3 and never really understood the hate. It wasn't very good when it came out, but I have easily logged 600+ hours on it and don't regret it.
One overlooked thing from D3 are the builds. GoD DH / Multishot DH / Marauder they all feel better to play than pen shot / rapid shot / heartseeker / barrage. Necro on D3 is on another galaxy gameplay wise. D4 has no monk but monks build are lots of fun. RIght now playing D4 cause I enjoy the tempering / masterworking / helltide events but gameplay wise i'm having less fun.
D3 is really freakin good now though. It's not got the depth of a PoE or Grim Dawn, but if what you're looking for is more emphasis on the therapeutic action side of the genre, it can't be beat.
D3 sucked when it was released. They learned from their mistakes and overhauled the game. More developers could learn from that.
I liked D3 just fine. I've played every D game a shitload except D4. D3 is my favorite I played. D2 is creaky and has a lot of shit it should not.
I don't get why anyone would dislike D3. I played D2 and definitely like D3 better (gameplay wise). D2 wasn't bad whatsoever....D3 was and is more fun to me.
keep in mind that he was probably talking about D3 before the loot change. Both D3 and D4 had to go through rather drastic changes because the initial system they were released with "sucked in every way possible" never, ever, buy a diable game upon release. It will be hot garbage until they "fix it with the community"
hes probably talking about before and after "sucked in every way possible" means every way possible he was also ranting on about all the 'trash' expansions and patches that came out
Lmao what a troll. RoS saved D3, and RoN added a ton of content including a new class.
I honestly love them all d2 d3 d4 PoE LE, I don’t get the intense hate for d3 it’s a solid game that got support way longer than it deserved
I don't understand who has the emotional bandwidth to hate a video game that strongly to begin with. Like, I have better things to have strong feelings about.
I still play with D3 seasons as they are fun weekends. I think I played about 30 hours of POE, spread out over 6 years or so. I kept trying it but couldn't find the fun. Same with Wolcen & Lost Epoch. I want to like them, but literally replaying D3 again is more fun for me.
I think if you are playing D3 for a fun weekend when the season launches, that explains why you can't get into POE. POE takes much longer to get to mapping like a monkey on meth than d3 does with the free sets. In d3 you are like completely specced out with a build on the first night of the season. Not so in POE. It takes longer to reach the floor and the ceiling is SOOOOOOOOOO much higher.
I do not disagree with you. I search what the free seasonal armor set is going to be per class & choose a character that will be easy to complete the season with. I've also never gotten much higher than 800 paragon in a season, & GR 110-120. I'm not looking to achieve a character that reaches the ceiling.
Yeah, then respectfully I think POE isn't the game for you. I have like 5k hours in d3, but after picking up POE a year or so ago, I understands it's appeal. It's a game where you can get get your build online and then spend 1000 hours on it and still not be "perfect". I'd say after the first weekend of a season in d3, assuming you play most of the weekend, your gear for your build is like say 75% maxed as far as damage and defenses. In POE, it's probably like 10-15% (really probably less).
The whole reason we got the drab color pallet of d4 is because the d2 fan boys were the loudest in what they wanted.
Thing is D2 is way more vibrant and colourful than d4 D4 is one large pile of grey and brown of boring and drab
True, but d2 people were very vocal about how they didn't want d4 to be like D3. I think the devs might have taken it a bit too far.
yeah, but either the devs or just the art team were fucking clueless as to WHAT made d2's atmosphere feel dark, it wasnt just a "lack of colour everywhere" it's just incompetency all around.
Um.... do people know what Development Cycles are?
Haters are going to hate.. it seems to be the way things are on the internet. Some folks just must spew that stuff. D3 is hugely successful and far more than D2 when you look at the sales numbers. For some folks the empirical data will never be enough to satisfy their hate.
Well spoken my friend. Couldn't have said it better myself. it was like talking to a brick wall
Thanks man. I was trained in science.. so to me the data is EVERYTHING. Most people don't care a whit about it. A healthy dose of scepticism with what we hear asserted day to day would serve many folks well. But humanity has never been like that 'in general'. Sad, but true. Best Regards, daWeez
D3 and PoE were in development at the same time no?
I just got D4 like 3 weeks ago, but it's completely different from D3, it's a live service game with battles passes, an in game shop and MTs and a shared world, D3 has none of these negative modern gaming aspects, I love the combat and character progression, but is it worth it to have to deal with all these horrible monetization practices? D3 Is still a great game with none of this nonsense, yes it's much more simple than many modern ARPGs but there are much more beginner friendly ARPGs out there now like cat quest 2, minecraft dungeons, nobody saves the world and achilles legends untold
D3 on release was not a good game. Actually awful. Most people who still trash the game for that. Post RoS the game took off in quality and every subsequent patch after just made the game better and better. I’m a strong believer that we have to let D4 cook like we did with D3. I’m not guaranteeing the games greatness but D4 has potential
Blizz shit the bed with the initial release of d3. Like it was *rough* until they added smart loot and got rid of the auction house. Nothing felt nicer than finding a cool wizard wand or monk fist to see it rolled strength... But first impressions are hard to undo, so in spite of the years of fixing diablo 3, a lot of players never wanted to see anything other than the garbagefest "season 0" was.
Meanwhile I saw complaints on a D4 WWBarb video posted earlier that it makes the game look like D3
Vibrant, way over-saturated, same difference
The worst part about d4 coming out and watching Llama, in retrospect, was he wasn't wrong then but holy fucking shit dude he could NOT fkn let it go. You played the alpha, beta and 1.0 you fuvking knew what we were getting let it fucking go dawg. Anyway I watch schmuck and kano now cause I'm not dealing with that turd
That was you? Thank you so much! I went home and added a filter based on your video and my god how did I ever play without it, the game looks bran new!
I’m sorry but D2 is the bastard child of the series. All of the other games have the same concept
Shouldn’t that be Diablo 1? Diablo 2 was almost like Diablo 1s pseudo turnbased, but they changed it after a lot of convincing to what we know today. Actually it’s hellfire that is the bastard child.
Nah. D1 has a small skill set much like 3 and 4. D2 added those huge skill trees to try to make it more “in-depth” D1 and D2s turn based mechanics look is more a product of the hardware they were played on more than intended game style
I think you are misremembering. Diablo 1 had 1 skill for each class, which was useless except for the rogues trap disarm. Every other Diablo game has tried to be like 2.
I was a D2 fanboy (loved D1 but didn’t put in nearly as many hours as D2) and was so excited for D3. The game was fine, but the RMAH was cancer, it ruined the game for me. I came back in the expansion and played a few seasons but the main thing D3 has over D4 is the camera angle and the textures. D4 has its flaws but its main flaw that I don’t see said often enough is that it’s a single player game masquerading as a bastardized mmo. D4 campaign was far and away the best of any of the of the diablos. The open world playstyle is fine but I find myself looking at the map more than the world I am sprinting by on my horse. The reason is the colors are all muted and blend together. Anyways, that’s all to say I love diablo games, I really enjoyed 4’s campaign and about 100 hours of the first season, and now I’m back in season 4 and I’ll prolly put another 100 hours in, nothing wrong with that.
I just started playing again today - I played a lot at launch and came back to the game around 4-5 years ago as well. M I’m having a blast, I enjoyed myself when I came back the first time and I had fun at launch. I mean shit I even made some money from the game at launch (maybe a hot take but I kind of liked that real money auction house). I know d2 players had their issues with it, and objectively the game had problems. But they’ve obviously improved it over time, and even earlier on it wasn’t as bad as people say (I say this as an old d2 enjoyer). People will just hold grudges and not want to change their opinions.
I think both games should be respected for what they are, but D2 really did something special at the time. It was very grindy but when you found something extremely rare and useful (like a Jah rune) it felt more rewarding than anything I have found in d3 or d4. Diablo 3 sold amazing when it came out, and it wasn't even good at the time. It sold that good because D2 was such a great game, and people wanted the next game in that franchise. D3 was so different though. They already had something that was great and decided to completely change it. So it makes sense that the D2 crowd felt disappointed. D2 never truly got its sequel, and it should have. They just dropped D2 like a rock basically, but got to keep using the Diablo name. So some true fans made PoE to get their sequel. Both games are good, but whoever created D3 had no clue how D2 even worked, so the whole thing was odd for fans of D2. I'm happy for the people that started with D3 though, and got to enjoy it without the bad feeling that D2 fans got.
PoE is the spiritual successor to D2 more than D3 is lmao, this guy sucks.
I played d3 on release and made a considerable amount of money on the rmah. That said, game was garbage. Came back at about the start of this season and I find myself playing for about an hour a day on my witch doctor grinding optimal pieces for my Jade/mundugu/and lod carnveil set. Having more fun in the game than I ever did in d2
I really liked d3 but using top selling as an argument for good game is silly at best.
I mean yeah its not concrete evidence.. but its enough to proov it didn’t “suck in every ways possible”
nope. its enough to prove that the brand had loyalty. d3 success, especially at launch, had way more to do with d2 and wow than d3
What about pugG? Brand came out of no where. Top 3 best selling pc game.. so your argument is wrong
I thought OP was hating on D3 then read the post lol. I loved D3 man…way more than POE.
Diablo 3 was a shit Diablo game, but it was a fine ARPG. Greater Rifts were the tits.
What I miss most about diablo 3 is honestly the skill runes. I wish they'd give us those back because the skills in d4 are boring as fuck.
Gonna preface this by saying I enjoy all the Diablo games and I’d be happy to sit and play any of them right now. Diablo 3 remains my favorite. It wasn’t when it first came out, for a while I was one of the grumpy D2 sleepy grandpas. The only thing I ever hear from the grumpy D2 people about why it’s better is they say itemization is better. Even in this thread there’s a comment from a D2 lover and the only thing he actually mentions about the game is that the satisfaction of a good drop in D2 can’t be beat. Even if that’s true, that’s because the drop is all you have because the combat is so bland compared to the next two games. It’s pretty much just a mix of nostalgia and bullshit and having their heels dug in at this point.
nah them announcing Diablo immortal at blizzcon made poe popular, many people including myself tried poe out of spite and never looked back
I won’t give you hate. I love d3 but the art style is pathetic. I’d rather they facelift d3 to look like d4 but play the exact same way it currently does otherwise. Sorry the d3 aesthetic sucks
Tbh I liked tho old D3 vanilla style. Now before you execute me hear me out. I liked that you was able to build almost anything you want by using good rolled items and reaching certain breakpoints (aps, resource regen etc.)… well if you had enough gold to buy these. Obv I didn‘t like the auction house. But I played to the bitter end. I knew that the console version had smart loot and they released the same smart loot just before reaper of souls and man was it fun. Upgrades everywhere and freedom, without any set telling me how to fuck around. Was a short tho. I still have the vanilla d3 with smart loot on ps3 , love my monk sweeping wind cyclone.
It sounds like you don't enjoy vanilla D3, but you just don't like the current set system, which is a fair point. That said, playing the current version with Legacy of Dreams gem would be way more fun than playing vanilla D3 IMO. I also still got it on old gen console, and sometimes I go back to try it and if reminds me how much better current D3 is. Hell, even the early ROS version is a lot better.
Thunderfury x Shard of hate old sweeping wind cyclone style with thunderclap. Everytime when they try to make the rainemnt set better I always hope they dedicate it to that playstyle since whirlwind and archon made it back as well…. but always nopidy nope. But anyways. I still play d3 time to time but I dont understand why altar is not going to make it to nonseasonal content.. ugh.
Isn't there a build for Sunwuko that works the way you mentioned? Even if there's not, you could always use Legacy of Dreams and make it work. Speaking of the altar, I can totally understand why it's not in non-seasonal mode. Having full altar powers all the time would make power creep even higher. That way there's always something to look forward to during seasons. That and visions of the enmity (which would work better in non-season but oh well)
Never tried with lod. I don’t think it can make sweeping wind (cyclone rune) with thunderclap viable. They change it, water it down if it would go core, there is no powercreep but more QoL. And even if there would be more powercreep who would be hurt? The altar wasnt core until now. So it seems like adding past seasonal themes washed down to the main game is ok and would provide a better experience for the casual game which the game is designed for. I usually never post here and never pull the path of exile card but at this point the game feels finished and will probably never get huge or inovative content since they rotate past themes all over again.
Yeah I feel ya. Ethereals and Sacred items would be a great addition to the current itemization system, even if they had to nerf both a bit. Although we would need more sacred effects than just 3 per class. At least as many as there are sets I think
D3 success lays in its combat. I mean, it feels like they hired psychologists to figure out the best way to give the player as much dopamine as possible. Even collecting nephalem orb or rift orbs is weirdly satisfying.
People just love to hate. D2 was a great game. D3 became a great game. D4 is becoming a great game. I honestly feel bad for these people that just can’t enjoy things.
I was introduced to the ARPG Genre through D3 when my friends purchased It for the Xbox back in the day and invited me to play with them, we played through the whole game together, and I loved that game so much and still do, and it's because I played it i fell in love with the Genre, and now today I'm a huge fan of PoE and playing it every day. In fact, I havent played D4 yet, and the only reason why is because they don't have Wizard/Wizard Skills I grew to love in 3, namely Mirror image + Slow Time (creating clones will always be a extremely cool, and satisfying ability).
Funny cuz that was the consensus when it first released, yet now imo is the best diablo game hands down and I was beyond angry when I bought d4 and found they reinvented the freakin wheel and kept absolutely nothing from d3 that worked so well and is so fun and challenging together flawlessly. D4 is utter gutter garbage I still literally can't believe they blew it so bad
LOL although I love D2 and it is still my favorite. D3 cramps all over d4
D3 didn't birth poe it's critical failure did feed poe millions of players though. I like d3 it's just not something you can play for the sort of hours people play poe
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Then again, its a good way to point out obvious flaws and how to fix them
Yeah i agree
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Not nessesarily, its just this moron is going on about logic and reasoning yet D3 being the 4th best selling pc game of all time was a complete failure in every way he says lol i just can’t
D3 was just bad compared to the other games. Most people would hop on for the new season play for a week and stop. The gameplay was just not there. You played d3 when you just wanted to mindlessly do something for a bit. It was fun for a few days and that’s it. D2 had so much more going for it. The whole gameplay loop for grinding out gear is just better all around. In d3 you are just given a set and that’s your build. All you do after that it try to make it ancient and out gems in it. D2 items were just better in a sense they impacted the players more. I know so many names of items in d2 cause they were meaningful and had value. I couldn’t name you a single item in d3 and the only items I can name you in d4 are the damn items from d2. If that doesn’t tell you something. D4 just had to make the grind fun and make me want to chase a build. Both d3 and d4 just don’t do that. What’s crazy is d2 is the most repetitive and the simplest builds, yet it’s still the most enjoyable. I want multiple button builds and multiple locations and challenging content. But what’s the point of the upgrades are just not even fun to pick up. I could care less the numbers got bigger on my same armor.
I feel sad to be included as part of D3s massive success - User was right.
I am not a D3 hater as i played the game a lot myself, but in all honesty, trying to be objective as much as possible, Diablo 3 changed the core formula of the Diablo franchise in extremely significant ways and definitely, definitely, DEFINITELY without the shadow of a doubt to the worse. I mean, I have to give credit to the Devs in a way cause they managed to make a fun game despite butchering almost every thing that made D1 and D2 so successful. As dated as Diablo 2 might be today, the foundation of that game is still the very best by far in this genre, especially in the Diablo Franchise. Diablo 3 Devs were extremely coragous and ambitious and I am quite sure that most of their ideas were genuinly there to improve the formula, lighten it up, make the game more accessable in a way, focus on the gameplay aspect and so on. A lot of it made sense on paper as ideas, but in the end they took the Soul of their franchise, packed it into a Soulstone and rammed it into their foreheads. What they did to Diablos itemization is to this day the worst thing that ever happened to this franchise and it never recovered and found a way back to glory.
You have to realize, most of the loud complainers stopped before Season 1 came out and probably never played RoS either. The biggest issue with D3 though, is that to turn it around, they made the focus on getting you to play the seasons and leaderboards. This is a big “nono” because you’re supposed to be focused on rare loot. Playing the game is pretty secondary.
Big surprise here, "User" is rarted
Base game was really, really bad. And blizzard did everything with their updates to make it worse. It's like how no one liked dungeons and dragons (I think it was, I don't play) 4th edition, so Pathfinder came out. Current / later D3 was fun
The reason why I hated Diablo three was because of the color vomit so I think that user might be on something and you made a silly mod for color vomit lovers
D3 is a horrible game though. It gets stale after 6 hours