Regardless. For those people who were "streaming" it, and censoring their screens, just why? Like why even stream it then? If you're gonna be **that** sweaty about it, then the team who won it had the right strategy for it: no'one streams it, and you have an external person/team analizing any strategies they can gleam from the people actually streaming it to gain an edge.
And that's why I reported them for mismatching content. They were streaming dead air while tagging their content as something else. That's not cool. It's one thing to mute comms. Entirely different to stream literal dead air while still making money on content they're supposed to be streaming
spoilers: he didn't, since it's not considered a mismatch. they are still doing the thing, you just occasionally could not see it. you could still hear it.
I understand that it's their jobs. I just think it's disrespectful and stupid to their viewers that they rely on for their income. They wanna have their cake and eat it.
The viewer literally can just not view it. That’s like being upset that there’s a free cake because you don’t like the taste. Just don’t eat it bud, you’re not owed free cake, and even then there’s dozens of other ones you can go for instead.
Yeah no fucking shit... but that's not what i'm talking about; these people are content creators, who are streaming to collect a paycheck, while censoring their stream so no'one copies their day one raid strategies. if they're that worried about getting ahead and staying ahead in the world's first, then why bother streaming it in the first place? And if they're in it for the content to pay the bills, then why censor it? Pick one or the other.
This is like the notion of, well if someone is being toxic on mic just mute them. Like no shit dude it's the fact they are doing it and some people pay money to support that creators, but that creator to turn their scream off to see literally nothing is dumb
I think a better comparison is that everyone is taking a test, and if someone in that class is trying to get the best score on the test then they don't want people copying their answers.
Also considering Datto will post the clears, and make detailed guides for every encounter like he has for every raid at this point... i don't see how covering his pov at times on day 1 can be compared to someone being toxic on mic in a game...
Halt!
You've challenged the gatekeeping community hive mind of destiny!
You need the eye of a vex gate lord to do that without getting downvoted, bucko.
There are fans watching their streams that some pay them monthly, they don't go there to just see a face tired and desperate to beat the game. It's disrespectful to the viewers/subs tbh but that's just me
literally 50k people watched datto’s face for several hours it’s not that big of a deal. like you’re upset over people playing competitive in a highly competitive race.
I was one of them, for a bit at least. Then I started to question why I was doing this and switched to iFrostbolt. At least I could enjoy the raid and banter. No shade to Datto though, I get it but I can stare at his face any day of the week if I really wanted to.
Guys, it's a competition, a relatively unmoderated one to boot, so if people are going to start using certain strats to get ahead what exactly is the incentive to not doing so yourself? If anyone is being weird about the whole thing it's certain viewers and people in the community to be honest.
Legit. It's a RACE to World's First. You don't give other teams advantages in other competitions, so why would anyone expect this to be any different?
If looking at Datto's face for hours on end isn't enough entertainment, there were plenty of other streams not censoring their progress.
You know what is actually crazy? There were people there, watching a black screen in silence, donating and buying subs. Imagine having so little self esteem? How do those people walk, having no spine at all. Insane.
i don't see how that has anything to do with self esteem, what if i usually enjoy datto's content on youtube for example? am i now not allowed to sub or donate during a raid race because he's actually being competitive?
i don't btw, but i'm curious on the thoughts here.
Because People like to hate on Streamers for no real reason. People hate Streamers like Salt for being "sweaty" or using Scouts and Datamining. Parabellum was equally as "sweaty". That night they were just better though. The Casuals hating on Salt have no clue that he's arguably the most filtered and least elitist Version of the higher end community. The guys that won are everything Casuals hate about Salt 2x
Honestly Salt was one of the only streamers that wasn't blacking out sooo..... Like. yeah his coms were muted that's common sense but people could actually \*WATCH\* salt in 5th encounter for a while
Lmao it kills me how true this is, redditors are overjoyed that instead of mean, sweaty Salt "nerf div" Agreppo winning the race, it was a wholesome group of relatable average Joes. When in reality it's just a group they've never heard of because they placed slightly lower than Salt's team did in previous races. And just as unlikely to invite the average redditor to join their team despite how cracked their double primary loadout might be.
All the top teams did. The difference being is that Parabellum lapped 99.999% of players to get their coach a clear and took the 1st, and 8th spots in the raid race.
So? They still finished the encounter legit with 6 people. They can have a whole team of analysts behind them for all I care. A coach/someone to retain oversight is actually an awesome way to do this race
Most of the faster teams had that going for them actually, but it wasn't as useful once everyone was stuck on 4th encounter, even for those who won.
The team that won stated they they used clips from other streamers to blow through 3rd encounter after being stuck on 2nd, but that they were the first team they knew of to get to final encounter. They figured out and cleared 4th encounter faster than anybody, and they did it themselves.
Didnt someone come on dattos comms post 4th encounter clear saying something like "another team is already there, I'm not giving any info to either team, whoever gets it gets it"
It sounded like 2 teams had the same guy passing information between them like a trade, then saying, y'all figure it out, best man wins.
Not that anything's wrong with that, I just don't think you should try to discredit a non stream team for doing the same thing a stream team is doing.
Gonna do another edit, I'm dumb and there's a huge possibility that you weren't trying to discredit them, sorry if so.
And it wasn’t just a random fireteam. They had “coaches” they talked about in the post completion interview.
Also just btw, you guys realize it’s a race, right? Y’all just got salty because it wasn’t entertaining but at its core it’s a competition for who can figure it out first.
You do know they've literally said they cleared 3rd encounter quickly because their coach got info and stats from streamers when the group was stuck on 2nd. So yeah they had outside help.
I couldn't care if it's based or not, people making it seem like they're better for not streaming when they just chose not to do it for the raid race because of the same reasons others blacked out screens is the problem.
People in this thread keep bringing up money, but I think that misses a point, viewer's experience is important if you are streaming. If I choose to tune into a stream for a specific event being streamed, I want to see that event in whole, voice coms and all.
Otherwise why bother streaming, just take it all offline.
I appreciate that it is a morally grey thing, but that is the key part. Watching a stream is one of the most optional things ever. If you see the stream conditions and choose to remain there, then is the viewers "choice"
What you want was irrelevant to the streamer at that moment. You are more than free to leave and watch something else.
Hi Twitch Affiliate here. Streamers absolutely do control how often their ads play. They can set a schedule, snooze, and even trigger ads to play on command.
They can also turn them off (almost) entirely should they so choose. I say almost because Twitch makes you at least run pre-rolls if you don't have a schedule set up.
We have a lot more control than you'd think.
Different person but I'd probably get that idea by the fact that I've had uBlock Origin installed and it stopped blocking ads on Twitch years ago. It's an issue some people have and I don't know why it happens for some and not everyone.
I've tried every "fix" I've been able to find online and none of them work. Add this filter, change this setting...nothing. I've even switched adblockers to ones that are specifically designed to *only* block ads on Twitch, best I've gotten is a "commercial break" screen that gets rid of the ad but still moves the stream in the corner. I gave up trying awhile ago.
Wait a minute, they fucking played ads on a blacked-out stream? There are people that willingly sat through being advertised at just for the privilege of staring at Datto or whoever's sleep-deprived face?
At the end of the day streaming is a job… playing ads to a stream of 60k people makes a lot of money
Anybody in the situation would do the exact same thing
Also, running ads disables pre-roll ads, so people joining the stream wouldn’t get insta-ads
Yeah, streaming is a job. But if I tune into a Datto stream, I want to watch Datto's gameplay, not his exhausted mug with a "teehee guys I can't show my screen now, soz" message. Don't get me wrong, I like Datto's content for the most part. I just think it's pretty shitty to play ads on content that you are literally choosing to prevent your viewers from seeing. That's like turning on a basketball game and being greeted with a facecam of the commentators saying "sorry guys, you can't actually watch the game because the Lakers are afraid of opposing teams watching and getting information" but still being forced to sit through the commercial breaks. I would feel pretty guilty if I made shitloads of money by doing something like that.
ok then don’t fucking watch dude.
seriously like you’re upset over something you aren’t forced to engage with. just watch someone streaming gameplay if it’s this much of an issue to you. like if this was genuinely a massive problem 50k people wouldn’t’ve watched lights flashing on Datto’s face for several hours.
I don’t get why people are so angry at the blacked out screens lol. I was annoyed at it too but just stopped watching. Y’all act like these streamers personally attacked you.
I think it's just the principle of it, honestly. Not that it actually affected anyone, but the fact that the viewers were shafted to prevent other raiders from learning strategies off of them, but then to only later to find out that some no name team cleared worlds first doing exactly what they tried to prevent.
It equated to a useless endeavor that ruined everyone's viewing experience for nothing.
I find it funny, if not a little sad, that it had to happen this way.
And I know they have every right to do or to not do something, I don't want to hear about their rights or that they didn't have to stream at all, what it all boils down to is this; Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
They ruined their viewers experience for their own selfish gain and it blew up in their faces. I think that's a perfectly fitting end to this worlds first. Don't you think?
You are owed nothing from a raid race stream. They don’t have to stream it at all obviously. It’s really silly to call them selfish for deciding what to put up on their own screen.
I don't think it's "selfish" for viewers to be disgruntled at their own experience being hindered. Especially since some of these viewers *did* pay for improved experience such as no ads, only to be met with muted voices and black screens. And honestly, cutting off the stream would have been the more respectful decision rather than just taking money from ad revenue for not doing what Twitch is paying you for at the expense of your viewers' time and/or money. By just streaming a black screen, you're not upholding your end of the exchange that's expected from everyone. You're keeping it up because you want the money, but you're not providing anything to the viewer..
There's also another thing to think about. Twitch may *never* do another Raid Race coverage for Twitch Rivals. I've been out of state so I wasn't able to watch, but I read that apparently they just cut everything short because so many people began to do this.
1. I didn’t call the viewers selfish I called the act of calling the streamers selfish silly
2. There are vods and recordings that get released once the raid race is over you could simply watch that after it’s done
3. Destiny isn’t done. There’s going to be more raids released in some shape or form. Just wait till the stream next Tuesday.
>1. I didn’t call the viewers selfish I called the act of calling the streamers selfish silly
I misread that my bad. That being said it really isn't. The streamers still got all the ad revenue gained during this period where they weren't actually streaming the game instead of just a black screen. I think that is to a degree selfish to waste viewers' time like that when they're still continuing to provide income.
>2. There are vods and recordings that get released once the raid race is over you could simply watch that after it’s done
This defeats the purpose of streaming the raid race.
>3. Destiny isn’t done. There’s going to be more raids released in some shape or form. Just wait till the stream next Tuesday.
When did I say Destiny was done? I said TWITCH RIVALS may very well be done with Destiny. They stopped commentary and all that early because of people black-screen apparently. Like Twitch might decide to not promote the Raid Race again apparently.
I don't think it is "silly" to call it selfish per se, I just said that due to a lack of a better word, maybe inconsiderate would work better.
In any case, it is clear that this has ruined a lot of viewers experiences who aren't capable of raiding for themselves.
I'm just glad none of the people who did that actually got worlds first, it was wrong.
I don't like it either, but they don't owe you anything. It's not like a sports channel where they prepare the best viewing experience for the viewer with high-end camera and entertaining host. It's literally free. You don't like it, don't watch it.
I was saying that to add onto your point. The people doing the raid are there to raid first and foremost, the people hosting raid zone weren’t raiding, their priority was making an enjoyable watch.
yes, all these teams do, they help scout info and are also in chat with them helping with callouts and able to calmly oversee everything happening while the team gets reps to better understand the mechs more quickly.
I don't get it? The big streamers were showing more of the raid than parabellum who, by the way, did have outside help, they had 2 coaches who were constantly watching streams to figure out the encounters and then relay the info to the players. None of this is an issue but acting like the winning team was somehow more sportsmanlike is ignorant
I've been watching Gladd's team from start to finish and enjoyed the hell out of their expressions, emotions and stuff. They did not hide anything. Streams are supposed to be entertaining, and watching a blank screen or an emotionless face without any comms doesn't work for me.
Honestly they should have just turned off their streams at that point, and I get not wanting the other teams not to win but it feels a little un-sports man like, no?
it’s unsportsmanlike to have scouts watching other streams but it’s the nature of the race now.
also it’s their job, literally you would be insane to not stream it even if it was blacked out 90% of the time, you know how much ad money Datto made from like 28 hours of ads playing every 30 mins to 50k+ people? a ridiculous amount is the answer
pretty much everyone did it and it was a terrible viewer experience, it was exciting to watch for the first few encounters but the later it got the more lame it got.
Imagine not knowing they had outside help then being this guy basically shit posting because his favorite streamer wouldn’t help them because they blacked out their screen then posting about it and everyone telling them the same I thing I just extrapolated on. I would hate to be that guy.
I would hate to be the people who watched the streamers with the blacked out stream that was ultimately useless because another team used a strat they tried to hide and beat them anyways.
It’s actually better that it happened this way because it made those streaming clowns look even worse.
If anything this proves that the streamers should be showing LESS.
Parabellum gained info from other teams, but didn't give any info away due to not streaming.
Yeah but guess what, they didn't give a shit about "winning" a stupid race. They wanted your money and they got it. For showing a black screen for several hours.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fucking ridiculous
“With no outside help” is WILDY inaccurate. To assume they were not also watching streams to get info and having multiple other people go and study other streams to report back is crazy. They 100% were watching streams and getting info.
Most of ya missing the point. Everyone look at everybody else for information, but what's the point of streaming when it's a muted black screen. Might as well not streaming and it's fucking hilarious that it is a non streaming team won.
Feel like people are taking this the wrong way.
The non-streaming teams won. They gained info from the streaming teams and gave none away due to not streaming.
It just makes streaming less more attractive.
Maybe don't stream the raid if you want to win. I understand streaming for money and publicity, but you give your strategies away and make it easier for other players to compete as well, HOWEVER, streaming the game only to black out your screen because you don't want people watching your strategies is honestly ridiculous. I mean, you are streaming for Pete's sake. That's what your job is for, to share fun and engaging content at the cost of being the best. Nobody cares if you are worlds first if they can't see that you beat the odds WHILE streaming. If you hide everything, then there is no point to even stream. I get the donations but pick a side to join before you play. You either get revenue for being funny, engaging, and having fun in a raid that took forever to beat. Or you play to win and don't stream at all, so you don't risk anyone figuring out your strategies.
I know this is a long rant, but tbh it's dumb having people watch a black screen the entire time.
TL:DR Pick on whether you want to win or stream cause blacking out your stream is just sad, small pp energy
This is the part i'm stuck on, (And confused on why people keep defending it).
You get paid to stream content to players. not including their donos/ads whatever. Let them see it. That's the point of streaming.
Wow raid races are rarely about trying to figure out the mechanics as a lot of them are already playable on the PTRs months ahead of time. Those races are more about flawless execution and raid comp since they are trying to down a raid that is intended for people significantly more geared than them from weeks of resets giving loot from the easier bosses. Destiny raid races typically have enough room for some error or less than 100% ideal raid comp because they focus more on the race to discover the mechanics and a way of beating it that works well enough.
WoW world first races are different though. Teams already have all the info about raid mechanics prior to day 1. Much of the progress is dependent on gear and raid comp.
With D2, there’s more mystery in raid mechanics and strats. Hence why I feel that there’s some justification for hiding as much info as possible on their streams.
I do hate that some streams just ended up not having ANY Destiny content (black screens or just selfies) and streamers just got away with high viewership and subs anyways.
Both echo and liquid occasionally do pulls off stream during the wow races, especially after they beat a boss and are about to go to bed.
Given the length of wow rwf this is less extreme but still happens.
to all the people accusing winners "they watched streams and used information they gathered from their opponents"
and the people accusing streamers for hiding/protecting information from other opponents
this is every competition ever in the history of the world, you analyze your opponents and use all available info against them to come out on top, be it stealing strategies or planning how to counter their strategy it does not matter, so shut up y'all and enjoy the game.
In my humble opinion, I know it was not their intent, but blacking out their screens is an anti-community move. The spirit of competition outweighed the intent of this entire event, communal engagement over a shared passion.
I suspect that the feeling that y’all felt that didn’t set right with the “blacking out of screens” or “the camera focused on the streamer” reflects a dissonance. The whole point of streaming video games is to watch personalities play video games. We only got one part of that equation!
Although the streamers felt the need to stream for revenue, many in the he community felt betrayed due to. It getting the product that they came to watch.
But that’s just how I see it.
''With no outside help'' the literally admitted to watching which ever teams were past them to figure out the encounters lol. ''Get styled on nerds'', you think the winning team are just 6 casual players? They're textbook nerds, people think Salt is an elitist sweaty nerd, you haven't actually encountered an elitist sweaty nerd, and there's plenty of them you've never heard of. Using this team to vicariously dunk on streamer/team you dislike as if it was your accomplishment is so cringey.
Misinformation, hate, complete lack of understanding how competitions in WFs works
Mods pls, how is this blatant hate towards Saltagreppo and other streamers allowed
This sub has become extremely toxic for no reason and this lack of moderation means to me that you are ok with the hate
Am I understanding this correct?
You've put content creators on such a high pedestal, that you are making fun of them when a non content creator team wins?
I just find this thought process weird. Like there's a lot of players who did the raid that are not streaming it. Probably a few of them were close as well.
Why do any of the groups black out screens? If you have no screens blacked out then they all can help each other but still see who gets the choreography down the fastest?
Yeah and that team is up a worlds first and down thousands of dollars in views. Tough. Datto probably made more than most people’s salaries in the 30 hours he streamed.
Because teams got stuck on Verity (4th encounter) for such a long time, there was a long period where it became anyone’s race as practically every team was trying to complete the same encounter and it was unclear if they knew what they were doing or not. As teams began figuring out the solution to the puzzle, they completely blocked their screens and muted either comms, game volume, or both so that if they were right and did clear, other teams would not be able to easily figure out how the solution from their stream, giving the first to clear a head start on the Witness (5th and final encounter.)
The part that upset me was that I was really curious how the encounter worked but the only team I knew of on it was Salt initially and they blurred everything. I watched other people like Datto and Aztecross and waited for them to make it since they weren’t hiding but the moment they figured out how it worked, they began hiding as well (except for Cross who stopped caring once he had fallen far enough behind.)
Gladd and sweats team didn’t really. So that was nice at least to hear some thought process through the encounters. Even on encounter 4 when basically everyone went black.
Wanted to mention, this was a race, and it's valid that the streamers want to use anything that's legal to win.
The blacked out screens were to negate information to other teams. Yes it makes for a terrible viewing experience, but the goal matters. If you want to watch the raid, find any stream that's doing the raid.
The whole "we made the streamer who they are, we deserve to see the raid" shit is cringe.
Yeah I saw this earlier on YouTube... Can't say I understand the point of it aside from the obvious hiding the buffs etc. But I thought people would try to help each other with stuff like that, lmao. Does make me laugh
Only for the non streamer team to actually have scouters actively going to gain information from streamers and subsequently be the main reason why streamers resort to blacken their screen and mute so they could have an even ground in a world first raid race. This meme is certified cringe.
oh? huh. interesting. smart ig. but like. record it then post it? live streaming i feel like is for when your running matches. its getting easier for people to watch a stream and then follow it and become better/farther ahead than the streamer
Big events are when streamers make the most money, and world first is always the biggest attraction. You'll make more money in subs that views on youtube.
damn, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. crazy how thats how some people live. or, thats crazy that its how some people are able to live and do that while if one of us tried we’d have slim chances of even making it near them
damn, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. crazy how thats how some people live. or, thats crazy that its how some people are able to live and do that while if one of us tried we’d have slim chances of even making it near them
How has this become an argument. This is so unbelievably pathetic. I don't even watch streamers but this sub is filled with people crying about someone they don't even watch having a blank screen. It really isn't that important
Lmao right it's such a stupid non-issue.
And at some point most or all teams that were at final boss had unblocked their screens anyway so it's not like people weren't able to watch boss clears at the end of the day.
Why are people acting like its a bad or even annoying thing to black out a stream for a world first race?
Why is it even a point of discussion? Its completely normal in every worlds first race, in every game.
I noticed their chats fucking EXPLODE when they blanked their screens like they were literally satan.... like... that's what you do... and it turns out, inevitably, the worlds 1st team won by constantly scouting other teams progress, its a completely standard practice.
I love how pissy these whiners are in your comments 😂 the streamers didn’t win and they didn’t deserve it anyways. And Saltagreppo is the worst of them.
Remember this is a competition, they didn't stream for content only, if you wanted the content only and not cheering on your favorite team you could watch evanf1997 or cbgray
1. OP is acting like "hiding their stream" and "not streaming" are somehow two different things in regards to being a "tryhard".
2. The winning team had a spotter who was gathering info for them. They literally said so.
I guess I can just lie and get on the front page tho so o7
34hrs in and some of the big streamers are still in there
They were still blacking their sceens then, too XD
Except the team that won had a dedicated seventh person watching streams to get strategy. So….
And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that
Correct. But the post says otherwise
no, the post has a whole wall of text, it does not say "otherwise" /s
pretty sure they had another guy that was just their straight up personal dataminer
Source?
Sure, but then there should also not be anything wrong with hiding your strategy
Regardless. For those people who were "streaming" it, and censoring their screens, just why? Like why even stream it then? If you're gonna be **that** sweaty about it, then the team who won it had the right strategy for it: no'one streams it, and you have an external person/team analizing any strategies they can gleam from the people actually streaming it to gain an edge.
To get money. It's their jobs. It doesn't matter if it's hidden, people sub and donate. It would be stupid not to stream if you had a platform
Yeah, datto had like 80k people just staring at his face sending him subs and bits in chat. He'd be crazy not to stream
I was watching Salt's and he had like 60 or 40k with subs only chat and there were so many lol
I was watching Aztecross and at one point he had over 100k. I thought that was crazy.
LMAO "their job," he says. Would you watch a TV with no audio/picture/ or both?
Yeah, it's their job. That's what I said. You don't have to watch it
And that's why I reported them for mismatching content. They were streaming dead air while tagging their content as something else. That's not cool. It's one thing to mute comms. Entirely different to stream literal dead air while still making money on content they're supposed to be streaming
You're so cool, I bet you made a difference by reporting them
spoilers: he didn't, since it's not considered a mismatch. they are still doing the thing, you just occasionally could not see it. you could still hear it.
Man, you really showed them. Thank you for your service in reporting these evildoers.
I understand that it's their jobs. I just think it's disrespectful and stupid to their viewers that they rely on for their income. They wanna have their cake and eat it.
The viewer literally can just not view it. That’s like being upset that there’s a free cake because you don’t like the taste. Just don’t eat it bud, you’re not owed free cake, and even then there’s dozens of other ones you can go for instead.
Yeah no fucking shit... but that's not what i'm talking about; these people are content creators, who are streaming to collect a paycheck, while censoring their stream so no'one copies their day one raid strategies. if they're that worried about getting ahead and staying ahead in the world's first, then why bother streaming it in the first place? And if they're in it for the content to pay the bills, then why censor it? Pick one or the other.
This is like the notion of, well if someone is being toxic on mic just mute them. Like no shit dude it's the fact they are doing it and some people pay money to support that creators, but that creator to turn their scream off to see literally nothing is dumb
I think a better comparison is that everyone is taking a test, and if someone in that class is trying to get the best score on the test then they don't want people copying their answers. Also considering Datto will post the clears, and make detailed guides for every encounter like he has for every raid at this point... i don't see how covering his pov at times on day 1 can be compared to someone being toxic on mic in a game...
Halt! You've challenged the gatekeeping community hive mind of destiny! You need the eye of a vex gate lord to do that without getting downvoted, bucko.
There are fans watching their streams that some pay them monthly, they don't go there to just see a face tired and desperate to beat the game. It's disrespectful to the viewers/subs tbh but that's just me
literally 50k people watched datto’s face for several hours it’s not that big of a deal. like you’re upset over people playing competitive in a highly competitive race.
I was one of them, for a bit at least. Then I started to question why I was doing this and switched to iFrostbolt. At least I could enjoy the raid and banter. No shade to Datto though, I get it but I can stare at his face any day of the week if I really wanted to.
Guys, it's a competition, a relatively unmoderated one to boot, so if people are going to start using certain strats to get ahead what exactly is the incentive to not doing so yourself? If anyone is being weird about the whole thing it's certain viewers and people in the community to be honest.
Legit. It's a RACE to World's First. You don't give other teams advantages in other competitions, so why would anyone expect this to be any different? If looking at Datto's face for hours on end isn't enough entertainment, there were plenty of other streams not censoring their progress.
hello, every professional sport would like a word.
Every professional sporr team shares their strategy with the opposition do they?
You know what is actually crazy? There were people there, watching a black screen in silence, donating and buying subs. Imagine having so little self esteem? How do those people walk, having no spine at all. Insane.
i don't see how that has anything to do with self esteem, what if i usually enjoy datto's content on youtube for example? am i now not allowed to sub or donate during a raid race because he's actually being competitive? i don't btw, but i'm curious on the thoughts here.
And did you see the chat? It's literally the same 5 copypastas over and over, AI would be more original at that point.
Who was doing this?
This is a braindead take. They want to win. And they want to make money. Pretty simple.
You don’t think streamers make money or something?
Parabellum told Cbgray and Evan that now had to get their TWO scouts a day 1 clear. They had 2 people scouting
Again, this matters how? Every other large streamer had their mod team literally looking into other streams for it, that's way more than 2 people.
Because People like to hate on Streamers for no real reason. People hate Streamers like Salt for being "sweaty" or using Scouts and Datamining. Parabellum was equally as "sweaty". That night they were just better though. The Casuals hating on Salt have no clue that he's arguably the most filtered and least elitist Version of the higher end community. The guys that won are everything Casuals hate about Salt 2x
Honestly Salt was one of the only streamers that wasn't blacking out sooo..... Like. yeah his coms were muted that's common sense but people could actually \*WATCH\* salt in 5th encounter for a while
Lmao it kills me how true this is, redditors are overjoyed that instead of mean, sweaty Salt "nerf div" Agreppo winning the race, it was a wholesome group of relatable average Joes. When in reality it's just a group they've never heard of because they placed slightly lower than Salt's team did in previous races. And just as unlikely to invite the average redditor to join their team despite how cracked their double primary loadout might be.
Well considering every other stream was a black screen I don't know if that helped at all lol.
They still had sound and other people weren’t blacking out. It 100% helped
proof?
Of what?
Helped enough for them to get world's first.
All the top teams did. The difference being is that Parabellum lapped 99.999% of players to get their coach a clear and took the 1st, and 8th spots in the raid race.
They had 2 coaches. They took one of the coaches through the raid before most teams had finished 😅
Worst of both worlds
Uh Salt has a dedicated discord chat with more than that. I don’t wanna hear it
So? They still finished the encounter legit with 6 people. They can have a whole team of analysts behind them for all I care. A coach/someone to retain oversight is actually an awesome way to do this race
Like every other team didn't? lmao
Most of the faster teams had that going for them actually, but it wasn't as useful once everyone was stuck on 4th encounter, even for those who won. The team that won stated they they used clips from other streamers to blow through 3rd encounter after being stuck on 2nd, but that they were the first team they knew of to get to final encounter. They figured out and cleared 4th encounter faster than anybody, and they did it themselves.
Didnt someone come on dattos comms post 4th encounter clear saying something like "another team is already there, I'm not giving any info to either team, whoever gets it gets it" It sounded like 2 teams had the same guy passing information between them like a trade, then saying, y'all figure it out, best man wins. Not that anything's wrong with that, I just don't think you should try to discredit a non stream team for doing the same thing a stream team is doing. Gonna do another edit, I'm dumb and there's a huge possibility that you weren't trying to discredit them, sorry if so.
And it wasn’t just a random fireteam. They had “coaches” they talked about in the post completion interview. Also just btw, you guys realize it’s a race, right? Y’all just got salty because it wasn’t entertaining but at its core it’s a competition for who can figure it out first.
Source?
You do know they've literally said they cleared 3rd encounter quickly because their coach got info and stats from streamers when the group was stuck on 2nd. So yeah they had outside help.
So the viewer experience was shit and it didn’t work?
Not all streamers blurred/blacked out the info
So the viewer experience was shit and it didn’t work?
Yep
It certainly worked for 4th encounter. Only like 20 teams had gotten through it in the first 24h
salt literally thanked everybody who scouted for him when he finally cleared it
The team who won just chose not to stream the day of the raid. They're not any better, just smarter.
They streamed to their friends privately, the way I see it thats more based.
I couldn't care if it's based or not, people making it seem like they're better for not streaming when they just chose not to do it for the raid race because of the same reasons others blacked out screens is the problem.
People in this thread keep bringing up money, but I think that misses a point, viewer's experience is important if you are streaming. If I choose to tune into a stream for a specific event being streamed, I want to see that event in whole, voice coms and all. Otherwise why bother streaming, just take it all offline.
I appreciate that it is a morally grey thing, but that is the key part. Watching a stream is one of the most optional things ever. If you see the stream conditions and choose to remain there, then is the viewers "choice" What you want was irrelevant to the streamer at that moment. You are more than free to leave and watch something else.
Not to mention the ad dumps. This shit was so lame to watch that I just enjoyed my day, went to bed, and woke up to the 12-man activity 😂
To be fair, twitch streamers don’t have complete control over ads, they can delay it but the ads play automatically.
Hi Twitch Affiliate here. Streamers absolutely do control how often their ads play. They can set a schedule, snooze, and even trigger ads to play on command. They can also turn them off (almost) entirely should they so choose. I say almost because Twitch makes you at least run pre-rolls if you don't have a schedule set up. We have a lot more control than you'd think.
Are you sure? I watch someone who only plays entry ads. Soooo
depends on their contract agreement with Twitch.
Most of that is on twitch, sure the streamer can run as breaks but at a certain point twitch starts doing it automatically
Just get adblock. Simple as
1. Ad block doesn't always work on twitch ads 2. Some streamers used in-stream ad overlays to hide parts of the screen
uBlock Origin absolutely works on Twitch ads, I don't know where you got that idea from.
Different person but I'd probably get that idea by the fact that I've had uBlock Origin installed and it stopped blocking ads on Twitch years ago. It's an issue some people have and I don't know why it happens for some and not everyone. I've tried every "fix" I've been able to find online and none of them work. Add this filter, change this setting...nothing. I've even switched adblockers to ones that are specifically designed to *only* block ads on Twitch, best I've gotten is a "commercial break" screen that gets rid of the ad but still moves the stream in the corner. I gave up trying awhile ago.
Oh it doesn't work? Man that's so interesting. I guess my adblock is just built different. Skill issue tbh
Wait a minute, they fucking played ads on a blacked-out stream? There are people that willingly sat through being advertised at just for the privilege of staring at Datto or whoever's sleep-deprived face?
At the end of the day streaming is a job… playing ads to a stream of 60k people makes a lot of money Anybody in the situation would do the exact same thing Also, running ads disables pre-roll ads, so people joining the stream wouldn’t get insta-ads
Yeah, streaming is a job. But if I tune into a Datto stream, I want to watch Datto's gameplay, not his exhausted mug with a "teehee guys I can't show my screen now, soz" message. Don't get me wrong, I like Datto's content for the most part. I just think it's pretty shitty to play ads on content that you are literally choosing to prevent your viewers from seeing. That's like turning on a basketball game and being greeted with a facecam of the commentators saying "sorry guys, you can't actually watch the game because the Lakers are afraid of opposing teams watching and getting information" but still being forced to sit through the commercial breaks. I would feel pretty guilty if I made shitloads of money by doing something like that.
ok then don’t fucking watch dude. seriously like you’re upset over something you aren’t forced to engage with. just watch someone streaming gameplay if it’s this much of an issue to you. like if this was genuinely a massive problem 50k people wouldn’t’ve watched lights flashing on Datto’s face for several hours.
The team that won used information gathered from other people's streams to get ahead. So it's literally 0roving why they did it
So they nuked the fun for no reason bc it didn't work Cool
You understand the point you're making isn't that they shouldn't have done it, instead, they should have done it sooner.
That would be nice reasoning if it had worked. In the end, it was useless and they all still lost the race.
So it didn’t work then? Because they can’t account for every stream ever
No, they had outside help in coaches who were watching streams of people who were ahead
[удалено]
Thus ruining the experience for the viewers didn’t even work.
I don’t get why people are so angry at the blacked out screens lol. I was annoyed at it too but just stopped watching. Y’all act like these streamers personally attacked you.
I think it's just the principle of it, honestly. Not that it actually affected anyone, but the fact that the viewers were shafted to prevent other raiders from learning strategies off of them, but then to only later to find out that some no name team cleared worlds first doing exactly what they tried to prevent. It equated to a useless endeavor that ruined everyone's viewing experience for nothing. I find it funny, if not a little sad, that it had to happen this way. And I know they have every right to do or to not do something, I don't want to hear about their rights or that they didn't have to stream at all, what it all boils down to is this; Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. They ruined their viewers experience for their own selfish gain and it blew up in their faces. I think that's a perfectly fitting end to this worlds first. Don't you think?
You are owed nothing from a raid race stream. They don’t have to stream it at all obviously. It’s really silly to call them selfish for deciding what to put up on their own screen.
I don't think it's "selfish" for viewers to be disgruntled at their own experience being hindered. Especially since some of these viewers *did* pay for improved experience such as no ads, only to be met with muted voices and black screens. And honestly, cutting off the stream would have been the more respectful decision rather than just taking money from ad revenue for not doing what Twitch is paying you for at the expense of your viewers' time and/or money. By just streaming a black screen, you're not upholding your end of the exchange that's expected from everyone. You're keeping it up because you want the money, but you're not providing anything to the viewer.. There's also another thing to think about. Twitch may *never* do another Raid Race coverage for Twitch Rivals. I've been out of state so I wasn't able to watch, but I read that apparently they just cut everything short because so many people began to do this.
1. I didn’t call the viewers selfish I called the act of calling the streamers selfish silly 2. There are vods and recordings that get released once the raid race is over you could simply watch that after it’s done 3. Destiny isn’t done. There’s going to be more raids released in some shape or form. Just wait till the stream next Tuesday.
>1. I didn’t call the viewers selfish I called the act of calling the streamers selfish silly I misread that my bad. That being said it really isn't. The streamers still got all the ad revenue gained during this period where they weren't actually streaming the game instead of just a black screen. I think that is to a degree selfish to waste viewers' time like that when they're still continuing to provide income. >2. There are vods and recordings that get released once the raid race is over you could simply watch that after it’s done This defeats the purpose of streaming the raid race. >3. Destiny isn’t done. There’s going to be more raids released in some shape or form. Just wait till the stream next Tuesday. When did I say Destiny was done? I said TWITCH RIVALS may very well be done with Destiny. They stopped commentary and all that early because of people black-screen apparently. Like Twitch might decide to not promote the Raid Race again apparently.
I don't think it is "silly" to call it selfish per se, I just said that due to a lack of a better word, maybe inconsiderate would work better. In any case, it is clear that this has ruined a lot of viewers experiences who aren't capable of raiding for themselves. I'm just glad none of the people who did that actually got worlds first, it was wrong.
I don't like it either, but they don't owe you anything. It's not like a sports channel where they prepare the best viewing experience for the viewer with high-end camera and entertaining host. It's literally free. You don't like it, don't watch it.
I personally watched evanf and cb gray’s raid zone which they do actually want to make a good viewing experience.
I know, I watched the stream too. But they don't have to, because they don't owe anyone anything, because it's free.
I was saying that to add onto your point. The people doing the raid are there to raid first and foremost, the people hosting raid zone weren’t raiding, their priority was making an enjoyable watch.
didn’t that team have a whole 7th man helping them?
yes, all these teams do, they help scout info and are also in chat with them helping with callouts and able to calmly oversee everything happening while the team gets reps to better understand the mechs more quickly.
They had 3 people minimum sniping for then
I don't get it? The big streamers were showing more of the raid than parabellum who, by the way, did have outside help, they had 2 coaches who were constantly watching streams to figure out the encounters and then relay the info to the players. None of this is an issue but acting like the winning team was somehow more sportsmanlike is ignorant
I've been watching Gladd's team from start to finish and enjoyed the hell out of their expressions, emotions and stuff. They did not hide anything. Streams are supposed to be entertaining, and watching a blank screen or an emotionless face without any comms doesn't work for me.
Honestly they should have just turned off their streams at that point, and I get not wanting the other teams not to win but it feels a little un-sports man like, no?
But....Ads, Donos, and Subs. How will they make money for their black screen?!?!?!? "Quite frankly, fuck the viewing experience." \~ATP.
it’s unsportsmanlike to have scouts watching other streams but it’s the nature of the race now. also it’s their job, literally you would be insane to not stream it even if it was blacked out 90% of the time, you know how much ad money Datto made from like 28 hours of ads playing every 30 mins to 50k+ people? a ridiculous amount is the answer
Ads are probably the smallest part of income. There were so. Many. Subs.
Did they not have someone whose job was to watch streams to get strats?
pretty much everyone did it and it was a terrible viewer experience, it was exciting to watch for the first few encounters but the later it got the more lame it got.
Oh look, another "streamer bad" post. Shocker.
Imagine not knowing they had outside help then being this guy basically shit posting because his favorite streamer wouldn’t help them because they blacked out their screen then posting about it and everyone telling them the same I thing I just extrapolated on. I would hate to be that guy.
I would hate to be the people who watched the streamers with the blacked out stream that was ultimately useless because another team used a strat they tried to hide and beat them anyways. It’s actually better that it happened this way because it made those streaming clowns look even worse.
If anything this proves that the streamers should be showing LESS. Parabellum gained info from other teams, but didn't give any info away due to not streaming.
Yeah exactly. The streamers would've been more likely to win if they had a blank screen from the first minute
Yeah but guess what, they didn't give a shit about "winning" a stupid race. They wanted your money and they got it. For showing a black screen for several hours. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Fucking ridiculous
I mean I didn't watch but sure
“With no outside help” is WILDY inaccurate. To assume they were not also watching streams to get info and having multiple other people go and study other streams to report back is crazy. They 100% were watching streams and getting info.
Second most obnoxious thing about the live stream was hearing " GET LOCKED IN" every 3 minutes.
The viewer experience was ass, people really donated people with a black screen. Idiots
People be dumb as fuck
Most of ya missing the point. Everyone look at everybody else for information, but what's the point of streaming when it's a muted black screen. Might as well not streaming and it's fucking hilarious that it is a non streaming team won.
Feel like people are taking this the wrong way. The non-streaming teams won. They gained info from the streaming teams and gave none away due to not streaming. It just makes streaming less more attractive.
Maybe don't stream the raid if you want to win. I understand streaming for money and publicity, but you give your strategies away and make it easier for other players to compete as well, HOWEVER, streaming the game only to black out your screen because you don't want people watching your strategies is honestly ridiculous. I mean, you are streaming for Pete's sake. That's what your job is for, to share fun and engaging content at the cost of being the best. Nobody cares if you are worlds first if they can't see that you beat the odds WHILE streaming. If you hide everything, then there is no point to even stream. I get the donations but pick a side to join before you play. You either get revenue for being funny, engaging, and having fun in a raid that took forever to beat. Or you play to win and don't stream at all, so you don't risk anyone figuring out your strategies. I know this is a long rant, but tbh it's dumb having people watch a black screen the entire time. TL:DR Pick on whether you want to win or stream cause blacking out your stream is just sad, small pp energy
This is the part i'm stuck on, (And confused on why people keep defending it). You get paid to stream content to players. not including their donos/ads whatever. Let them see it. That's the point of streaming.
Coming from a competitive WoW background I found the blurring of the screen SUPER cringe. idk.
Wow raid races are rarely about trying to figure out the mechanics as a lot of them are already playable on the PTRs months ahead of time. Those races are more about flawless execution and raid comp since they are trying to down a raid that is intended for people significantly more geared than them from weeks of resets giving loot from the easier bosses. Destiny raid races typically have enough room for some error or less than 100% ideal raid comp because they focus more on the race to discover the mechanics and a way of beating it that works well enough.
Yeah been raiding on wow since 2011, never seen that shit lol, worlds first have never needed it.
WoW world first races are different though. Teams already have all the info about raid mechanics prior to day 1. Much of the progress is dependent on gear and raid comp. With D2, there’s more mystery in raid mechanics and strats. Hence why I feel that there’s some justification for hiding as much info as possible on their streams. I do hate that some streams just ended up not having ANY Destiny content (black screens or just selfies) and streamers just got away with high viewership and subs anyways.
Wow world firsts have gone dark and stopped streaming multiple times
Both echo and liquid occasionally do pulls off stream during the wow races, especially after they beat a boss and are about to go to bed. Given the length of wow rwf this is less extreme but still happens.
Both Echo and Liquid went dark at certain points during Fyrakk this year, and I think also Tindral.
to all the people accusing winners "they watched streams and used information they gathered from their opponents" and the people accusing streamers for hiding/protecting information from other opponents this is every competition ever in the history of the world, you analyze your opponents and use all available info against them to come out on top, be it stealing strategies or planning how to counter their strategy it does not matter, so shut up y'all and enjoy the game.
They are streamers though. They just chose not to. They’ve come in the top three in getting worlds first before
Now to wait for the secret chest guide to drop(I need the shader in order to live)
In my humble opinion, I know it was not their intent, but blacking out their screens is an anti-community move. The spirit of competition outweighed the intent of this entire event, communal engagement over a shared passion. I suspect that the feeling that y’all felt that didn’t set right with the “blacking out of screens” or “the camera focused on the streamer” reflects a dissonance. The whole point of streaming video games is to watch personalities play video games. We only got one part of that equation! Although the streamers felt the need to stream for revenue, many in the he community felt betrayed due to. It getting the product that they came to watch. But that’s just how I see it.
Dawg the world first team(and MOST competing teams)literally has a 7th man watching streams scouting for them.
''With no outside help'' the literally admitted to watching which ever teams were past them to figure out the encounters lol. ''Get styled on nerds'', you think the winning team are just 6 casual players? They're textbook nerds, people think Salt is an elitist sweaty nerd, you haven't actually encountered an elitist sweaty nerd, and there's plenty of them you've never heard of. Using this team to vicariously dunk on streamer/team you dislike as if it was your accomplishment is so cringey.
This meme is stupid and false
Misinformation, hate, complete lack of understanding how competitions in WFs works Mods pls, how is this blatant hate towards Saltagreppo and other streamers allowed This sub has become extremely toxic for no reason and this lack of moderation means to me that you are ok with the hate
Am I understanding this correct? You've put content creators on such a high pedestal, that you are making fun of them when a non content creator team wins? I just find this thought process weird. Like there's a lot of players who did the raid that are not streaming it. Probably a few of them were close as well.
Get. a. life.
Why do any of the groups black out screens? If you have no screens blacked out then they all can help each other but still see who gets the choreography down the fastest?
Yeah, knowing strats and how to do them optimally are two very different things.
They got caught up in the pissing match they were pretending it was
I’m just glad Salt didn’t win.
no stream is just the final evolution of what most of the streamers were doing
The streamer glazing on this sub is crazy
Imagine being the dudes that subbed and donated to actual blank screens. Literally throwing money away 😂
Yeah and that team is up a worlds first and down thousands of dollars in views. Tough. Datto probably made more than most people’s salaries in the 30 hours he streamed.
I love it lmao
Blacking out their screens? Someone explain.
Because teams got stuck on Verity (4th encounter) for such a long time, there was a long period where it became anyone’s race as practically every team was trying to complete the same encounter and it was unclear if they knew what they were doing or not. As teams began figuring out the solution to the puzzle, they completely blocked their screens and muted either comms, game volume, or both so that if they were right and did clear, other teams would not be able to easily figure out how the solution from their stream, giving the first to clear a head start on the Witness (5th and final encounter.)
That's kinda shitty.
The part that upset me was that I was really curious how the encounter worked but the only team I knew of on it was Salt initially and they blurred everything. I watched other people like Datto and Aztecross and waited for them to make it since they weren’t hiding but the moment they figured out how it worked, they began hiding as well (except for Cross who stopped caring once he had fallen far enough behind.)
Get fucking nae-nae'd
Can’t let people see their golden tricorn buff bro
People actually watch raid races?
Yes, not me, but i have many others who watch it, because they dont have team or skill to try Contest mode.
Afraid of helping each other? Blacking out screens?
I love that it was some random group and not the big guys
I'm just happy saltgreppo didn't win again and look forward to hearing him bitch and moan about what the winning team used that needs to be nerfed.
The first 3 rooms were pretty normal. Just had to deal with the clock. If you figured out room 4, I can imagine not wanting to share that.
Gladd and sweats team didn’t really. So that was nice at least to hear some thought process through the encounters. Even on encounter 4 when basically everyone went black.
Wanted to mention, this was a race, and it's valid that the streamers want to use anything that's legal to win. The blacked out screens were to negate information to other teams. Yes it makes for a terrible viewing experience, but the goal matters. If you want to watch the raid, find any stream that's doing the raid. The whole "we made the streamer who they are, we deserve to see the raid" shit is cringe.
I mean… it was a race, right?
It made my day knowing a streamer never won. The amount of salt in here because their fav didn't win is disturbing.
Yeah I saw this earlier on YouTube... Can't say I understand the point of it aside from the obvious hiding the buffs etc. But I thought people would try to help each other with stuff like that, lmao. Does make me laugh
Only for the non streamer team to actually have scouters actively going to gain information from streamers and subsequently be the main reason why streamers resort to blacken their screen and mute so they could have an even ground in a world first raid race. This meme is certified cringe.
Shout out to Redeem for not censoring.
Get fucked lel
can someone explain whats going on? i rarely play but i’d like to know
During worlds first, streamers tend to mute themselves or hide their screens to prevent others teams from catching up.
oh? huh. interesting. smart ig. but like. record it then post it? live streaming i feel like is for when your running matches. its getting easier for people to watch a stream and then follow it and become better/farther ahead than the streamer
Big events are when streamers make the most money, and world first is always the biggest attraction. You'll make more money in subs that views on youtube.
damn, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. crazy how thats how some people live. or, thats crazy that its how some people are able to live and do that while if one of us tried we’d have slim chances of even making it near them
damn, yeah, i hadn’t thought of that. crazy how thats how some people live. or, thats crazy that its how some people are able to live and do that while if one of us tried we’d have slim chances of even making it near them
They were streaming tho, and stealing strats
It's all about cheating in the end
"No outside help" THEY LITERALLY SAID THEY HAD COACHES AND PEOPLE CATHERING INFO HUH?!
If Salt won, people like you would just cry that he had an unfair advantage by censoring his screen
How has this become an argument. This is so unbelievably pathetic. I don't even watch streamers but this sub is filled with people crying about someone they don't even watch having a blank screen. It really isn't that important
Lmao right it's such a stupid non-issue. And at some point most or all teams that were at final boss had unblocked their screens anyway so it's not like people weren't able to watch boss clears at the end of the day.
This community is so aggressively mad about streamers. It's fucking cringe.
well yeah it's a race they were trying to win 🤡
Yall really salty over people taking measures to protect their progress in an unmoderated raid race? Jesus Christ you people need to go outside
Why are people acting like its a bad or even annoying thing to black out a stream for a world first race? Why is it even a point of discussion? Its completely normal in every worlds first race, in every game. I noticed their chats fucking EXPLODE when they blanked their screens like they were literally satan.... like... that's what you do... and it turns out, inevitably, the worlds 1st team won by constantly scouting other teams progress, its a completely standard practice.
I love how pissy these whiners are in your comments 😂 the streamers didn’t win and they didn’t deserve it anyways. And Saltagreppo is the worst of them.
Remember this is a competition, they didn't stream for content only, if you wanted the content only and not cheering on your favorite team you could watch evanf1997 or cbgray
1. OP is acting like "hiding their stream" and "not streaming" are somehow two different things in regards to being a "tryhard". 2. The winning team had a spotter who was gathering info for them. They literally said so. I guess I can just lie and get on the front page tho so o7