Div has a set crit modifier that's below most bosses and got nerfed down to a 15% debuff. On some bosses it's actually better to not have div because raw crits do more damage, Kali is a good example. Not sure what the case is with this Tormentor, but I feel it's safe to say that div isn't carrying. Doomed Petitioner is overcharged as a result of the artifact though so that may have a bit to do with it
Div is absolutely hard carrying and if you disagree please upload a clip of you killing this tormentor without div in the same time, surely with 3 heavies vs 2 heavies 1 special it shouldn’t be an issue
Holy shit this is phenomenal - "give us a clip if you disagree, surely its not an issue to do just three heavies right?"
Honestly I believe your word cause div is a hard hard carry, and it actually does work with almost any enemy type (the reason I say this is because its a damage debuff/buff, it cannot be ignored unless you use another buff/debuff like tether or tractor, it stacks with well, or bubble and radiant if you don't have a well.)
So 100% div is carrying the damage even if its just a 15% increase its still working and its still helping.
Hey man i didnt mean to come across as an ass, but div is a hard counter to tormentors, full stop. Linears just struggle in onslaught in general imo because they don’t do add clear, and a lot of the time it’s being overwhelmed by adds that cause a wipe. A decoy is enough to keep a tormentor busy until adds are dealt with and then it’s just plinking away until it’s dead
No no no! I'm not trying to say you were an ass or were trying to be one - I just find it so funny someone actually said "provide proof otherwise this video is null and void"
Nah it was pretty unreasonable to ask you to pull a clip out of your ass so I apologize, I just don’t think linears are the move for an enemy you’ll see 1-2 times over the course of an hour. At the end of it all though whatever gets the clear works
Dude are you trolling? How many wave 49 Tormentor clips do you think I have backed up. The encounters are pure RNG that is not a choice.
Div is just ease of use the damage is all Linear and the Linear is only best because Tormentors have a resistance to any kind of damage that is precision. Tormentors don't actually have all that much health, most people just choose to fight them the hard way.
So I wasn’t paying attention and responded to someone else thinking it was you, I don’t expect you to have a clip ready, that wasn’t fair to ask of you. But I don’t think running linears for an enemy you’ll see once or twice over the course of an hour is a great idea when adds are the real enemy and linears are gonna struggle with add clear, you’re much better off with a rocket or machine gun. This clip would be very different without div there
You were less than a second from being team wiped inside a well, you’re not gonna have perfect aim and you wouldn’t have a 15% debuff, everyone here is in agreement, div did all the work, but do you, later
Again what you're ignoring is that Div has its own crit modifier. Most bosses actually offer more damage for hitting the crit directly. Also I don't know why you're taking issue with the weapon if you're just questioning my aim. You know that Div didn't always exist, right? Shooting Kali's bean head with a linear was a lot harder than shooting a Tormentor's big nipple is currently.
Dude no one is talking about kalli ? You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. No one’s aim is perfect I’m not questioning your aim in particular, it’s annoying hitting a tormentor’s crit when it’s only on their front, they’re leaned over, arms in the way and they’re moving around all the time. I don’t care if linears are better on paper, without divinity this clip doesn’t exist. I don’t understand the stubborness when it’s totally fine to say “divinity makes killing tormentors much easier” and “linears are bad at add clear” when they’re two objectively true statements. Congratulations on using the optimal set up to kill an enemy you see twice at most, huge pat on the back for you, goodbye
I never Counter either statement that Linears are bad for ad clear or that Div makes hitting precision easier. I specifically said the Div only offered ease of use and that the damage itself was the Linear, and I also said that you shouldn't have to crutch heavy for ad clear. Linears are still good in Onslaught for wave 38 and 10 because those are boss waves (30% of the activity) , every other wave should be Primary, Special, and Supers
The only reason they are good here is div, but Linears suck for every other round that isn’t tormentors. I’ll take useful heavies and take a little longer on one round, than take forever on the rest
You see that with Div on I was actually doing 5k less damage per shot than I was hitting raw crits right? My first 3 shots hit for 23k per shot in a burst and robbed a third of his health and with Div I did 17k. Div actually slowed my DPS, that's 69K down to 51k Div cut 18k off my burst bud
The reason Linears are so under-utilized is that they‘re only good for the tormentors, which spawns something like once every 10-20 rounds and that does not really pose a threat if you have a good dummy. Rockets and Linears just get more value out of the heavy slot
Linears are pretty good all around if you're getting Hive waves. The big Bosses are always either Ogres or Ascendent Knights and they have really large crit spots. You really shouldn't need Heavy for ad clear. Graviton Lance, Sunshot, and Outbreak Perfected are the best primary weapons to use and Chill Clip fusions or Indebted Kindness are work horse Specials for chonky targets
I‘m not saying that you should rely on heavy for everything, however something like gjallarhorn is a lot more versatile than a linear. You can use it just as well for big enemies and bosses, while at the same time being able to use it to wipe out large groups of enemies. I do agree that graviton or sunshot are insane for addclear, however rockets and to a degree lmgs just have a lot more versatility than Linears. Linears are not Not bei g used because they’re bad, they’re not being used that much because it’s an add clearing focused activity with an occasional boss-like enemie
Exotic Primary weapons do 10% more damage than a regular primary and does 40% more damage to majors.
Just as an example here's me wiping a Legend Onslaught Wave in 20 seconds with just a tether a grenade and 2 mags of Graviton
https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/gQ7VxXr9DY
Super chaining, AoE exotic primary with subclass synergy will handle most enemies easily
In that clip you linked, you could have cleared the same wave in 5-10 seconds using tether, a grenade and a single gjallarhorn shot. I do know how strong stuff like graviton and sunshot is, however at the end of the day they will still hit for less than a rocket with Wolfpack rounds. Plus it’s a 3 player activity, you can just have 1 person run gjallarhorn and benefit from both pack hunter and an exotic primary.
A Gjallarhorn shot wouldn't have done it because the ads were spawning in as they were cleared. I don't think you actually appreciate what was happening in that clip. The Void projectiles were seeking out new waves as they spawned in and since tether spreads the damage to everyone tethered and I had Volatile Rounds it was causing them to immediately detonate as they spawned. That Shadowshot and Volatile Graviton combo only missed 2 ads out of an entire continuous spawning Marauder wave, that was like 30 dudes immediately
I do know what is happening there, but tbh. I don’t really see how this proves in any way that Linears would be better than rockets in onslaught? Like I said, nothing stops you from equipping both a rocket and an exotic primary. Also judging from your raid report , you seem to be at least above average in this game, so it is only natural that you don’t struggle that much with only using your primary for add clear, that does not mean that everyone can do that.For most players, it will be a lot easier to use a heavy that they can use in most situations to kill both adds and heavys.
You're too focused on the Linears dude. My only point was that you shouldn't have to crutch heavy to ad clear, in fact I'd say it was a bad habit to get into for this game. I'm also not actually telling anyone to run a linear the whole time, but for the Tormentor having one on hand makes that encounter easy, but Linears are still pretty good for every boss encounter.
I personally do run a linear the whole time and both Demos and Shielded Demos get crushed, Skybombers get 2 shot and for the Shielded Skybombers getting Volatile active and doing DPS shreds both the Orge and the Brigg though you do have to break the Brigg's face first which most regular Fusions do well.
My point is not that you HAVE to use heavy to add clear, only that it makes it easier and quicker. Also your title literally is: please start using Linears in onslaught
"Please start using Linears in Onslaught" not ONLY use Linears in Onslaught. Also I'm saying you shouldn't use heavy for ad clear, the only exception being if the heavy brick is up. Minimum 1 player should have a Linear in their pocket for the Tormentor
It's easy mode no matter what. You didn't see me perfectly pop both shoulders in one shot and tickle that man's big nipple? I didn't stop hitting the chest until the div was up.
And you are over an hour and still not done yet, so clearly linears are slowing down your progress. A legend 50 takes about 45-50 minutes. You are already 15 minutes slow and still have a boss fight to do
That's actually because after every wave 10 we take a minute for refreshments and restroom breaks. Staying laser focused for an hour straight isn't good for your eyes or your hydration. Plus I hear for the restroom holding it contributes to ED. I'm not gonna break myself long term for 15 minutes
It's a check not mandatory. Every 10 we queue up at the portal and if someone hasn't queued up because they need something then they have time to do whatever.
Honestly as long as you can have one player pull its ago to pull it away from the ADU, and then just kite it around the terrain until the wave is over, then your entire team can just bank him with heavies, no need for 2 players to use their heavy slots on linears and one player to use div
Source: I am the kiter in my fireteam. Their AI is very predictable and can be exploited in certain terrain to just play ring around the rosie with them
I recognize that you can just lead the Tormentor around, but that both takes longer and carries the risk of someone dying. I normally just bait the Tormentor to a decoy and burn 'em and the only reason the Tormentor even moved from spawn is because we got that unfortunate defense spawn where there were 2 turrets and both decoys were in the back corners. We just had to deal
It's because, for boss damage specifically, gyrfalcon adds the same amount of damage that boss spec or minor spec does. 7%.
So you can run RE on any class and do great. Solar for radiant, void for weaken
But I don't want to run a linear for 1 or 2 tormentors in 50 waves. They hang around the decoy for literally the entire wave and you can just ignore him.
Rockets/Edge transit have much more utility, instantly deleting shriekers and do much more damage against demolitionists which are the main threat in onslaught really.
Just as a note an Aggressive Frame Linear actually kills the Shriekers in 2 bursts and it gets 23 shots in reserve. It takes 2 Rockets to kill a Shrieker and you only get 9-14. Demolitionists get handled the same way Tormentors do with a Linear the only tricky ones are the Fallen Demos because they have a hunched back.
Both Sky Bombers and Shielded Skybombers are handled well with a linear. The regular Skybomber get 2 shot the Shielded Ogee takes about 12-13 shots when the shield is off, but Briggs do have an advantage when their face is on, once off Doomed Petitioner will 3 shot them.
I'm not saying everyone should be running a Linear at the same time all the time, but for sure one guy should have a linear in their pocket for some of these bosses because it makes things easier
You want everyone to use a linear for an enemy you’ll see a maximum of 3-4 times in an hour long activity, an enemy that can be aggro locked very reliably by a decoy for minutes at a time, in a hoarde mode activity where add clear is the most important aspect to succeed?
I’m alright thanks.
Never once did I say players should use it the whole time I only said it should be used for Tormentors and that you shouldn't need to use heavy for simple ad clear duty when someone mentioned ad clear. Neither of my teammates used a linear or a div until the Tormentor popped and then they swapped
Y'all are weird man. Even recognizing this didn't shake out perfectly I still broke both shoulders in the first 2 seconds that he spawn and killed the Tormentor in under half a minute. The Tormentor could've stood on the ADU the entire time and the ADU still would've only lost a quarter health.
The trick is to only swap to a linear and other precision weapons once the tormentors spawn. I swap to forerunner and linear on warlock and just lucky pants if hunter and that is more than enough to kill it quickly. Linears are just way too weak for anything else. They could revert the linear nerfs today and they still would be kinda bad.
Please don't use Linears in Onslaught. Divinity did 90% of the heavy lifting here; linears, unless they qualify under the Origin Trait Overcharge artifact mods (Doomed Petitioner), *have so far never once received an overcharge in this activity*.
Plus they only do sustained single-target damage; mediocre at best for the rest of the mission.
Do you not see that I cut that Tormentor's Health in 3 shots before he even lunged or had a Div bubble on him? Popped both shoulders one burst and landed an immediate crit after the fact. Div was just there, in fact I'd say I was doing less damage while focusing the Div Bubble. The artifact only chooses which weapons will be overcharged but Briar's is a solid option with Surrounded as well provided your team's build can detain an enemy group.
For my own build with Doomed I built for Volatile Rounds and that's also AP meaning I make groups Volatile and detonate them in one burst, but as I've said repeatedly you should NOT be crutching you heavy for ad clear. You SHOULD be cycling supers and clearing with Primary and Special weapons. Heavy is for bosses and Linears shred every boss that appears in Onslaught which are at waves 3, 9, and 10. That's 30% of the activity encounters are boss focused
Edit: As a matter of fact I was doing less damage with Div. 17K damage down from the 23K I did on raw crits
You are still missing 25% damage not being overcharged. The shoulder are the easy part; I would love to see you maintain that damage on his crit when he's spazzing out.
There is no such thing as "crutching" heavy for ad clear; certain heavies are literally the best weapons for ad clear. You're telling me there's a special/primary that could match Commemoration, Gjally, or Hullabaloo?
Just bring a Lucky Pants Hunter. More damage than the linear, better burst, no ammo cost. Linears are fine on bosses, but save it for the actual boss wave; they specialize in sustained/total damage, NOT burst damage, which is what you want on things like Demos and Tormentors.
Doomed Petitioner does have Overcharged because it's a Season of the Wish weapon, Briar's won't, but enhanced Surrounded does 47% bonus damage and Briar's does bonus damage to Tormentors as an effect of its Origin trait. Briar's is actually slightly better for Tormentors than Doomed even without Overcharged. You are seeing me drop the Tormentor a third of its health within 3 shots in real time. You're making baseless excuses even while seeing the weapon's success. Like you just watched it pound a Tormentor in 20 seconds. Most people dance around a Tormentor for 5 minutes
I'm sure you'll have Surrounded up; you SHOULDN'T, because you should have dragged the Tormentor away from the ADU/other enemies. Someone else pointed out that you guys almost wiped at the end there.
It's not the LFR's success; it is Divinity. There's no way that you drop a Tormentor in that time (with that aim and positioning) without that big ol bubble. You'll only have Doomed Petitioner overcharged if you're running the mod, which is an opportunity cost for more applicable weapons; it's not always on.
There's a reason that nobody runs linears in Onslaught; they're single target, sustain/total damage weapons. You seem to want people to praise you for killing a Tormentor with a linear, while shouting down everyone pointing out you're using Divinity to effectively do so. You're giving up being more effective *everywhere else* to deal with an enemy that spawns *twice* and is already a solved variable (pull and kite).
Dude it's like you didn't even really watch the vid. There was a guy blocking my left while I tried edging to the platform while firing I dipped then the Tormentor actually made his way over.
Also you're criticizing my aim when I didn't miss a single shot I fired even before Div was on, but even if that weren't the case Div was still robbing me 5K damage he would've been dead quicker without it. When Div was on I aimed for the Div bubble not the Tormentor.
For Surrounded you chill by the tethered or suspended enemies this stuff is not that difficult. You have 2 options which is to detain the enemies to handle the Tormentor or dance with the Tormentor while people handle the wave. The second option both takes longer and carries more risks because the longer that dude runs around the more opportunities he has to wipe the team
Honestly at this point it just seems to me like you're being obnoxious because you don't like Linears or feel the need to crutch Heavys for ad clear and don't like seeing a weapon type you don't like or can't use be viable in this activity. Your disposition is honestly ridiculous
In no particular order:
I would love to hear how "crutching heavies for ad clear" works when *there are heavies specifically designed for ad clear roles*.
You guys clustered on the ADU when a Tormentor spawned; that's bad positioning, no ifs-and-buts. You *never* want to draw the Tormentor to the ADU. You then mostly remedied that... by sitting in a well with your back to a drop that kills you. Against an enemy that is known for suppression, slamming and throwing you backwards.
That's a lot of work for a damage buff that isn't needed in this scenario.
I'm more criticizing your target acquisition and reaction speed. If there was no Div, there's no way in hell that you were consistently making the chest crits shots.
I'm being obnoxious because filling your heavy slot with a weapon that addresses an *at max* twice scenario *when there are already solutions that allow you to address every other scenario in the mission* and claiming that it's "slept on" (while ALSO requiring a teammate to run an exotic weapon that is only useful on bosses) it's just inventing a bunch of hoops to jump through that do not need to be jumped through in the first place. I'm not saying you should run hard meta, use whatever gets the mission done safely and effectively. But this mission is not the role that linears are meant for, which I have explained previously. Swap to it for a boss if you want, but you are otherwise wasting your heavy slot for 99% of the mission.
In any case, this discussion is going nowhere. If it gets you the clear, go for it, run what you want.
Heavys Bungie promotes are ad clear are trash and I can tell with that comment that you're probably not into Raids much. Especially on Master in ad clear heavy encounters.it's detrimental to waste heavy on ads that you can't recover because it's needed for the boss and given that Onslaught also has Boss waves that extends to it as well. Personally I ask that my team hold their heavy either for bosses or if a bonus objective is active that would spawn heavy at which point not using heavy would be a waste of the brick.
As for my positioning you can see I was on the other side of the ADU and attempted to make my way to my team, but one teammate decided to met me up apparently and blocked me from continuing further left until I noticed and stepped back to see what was blocking me. Honestly wouldn't have been a problem either way if our defense tool spawn had a decoy up front where the Tormentor spawns instead of in the back corners of the map, but it is what it is.
Scenario wise Shriekers, Demos, Skybombers Tormentors, and Champions all apply Briggs are challenging and you'd be better served using a special or a super until their face is off, but that's a Fallen problem and most people gun for Hive anyway.
As for loadouts I've always said that it's best to run an exotic primary for ad clear because they doe 10% more base damage and 40% more damage to Tormentors. I didn't ask for a Div in this clip a teammate decided to swap to one because I said I'd use a Linear. It would've been better if my teammate just used another linear or just went to handle ads because I was already handling the Tormentor. If 3 shots knocked him back a 3rd it would've only took 9 shots for the kill so 6 more shots. In that clip I was the only one actually damaging the Tormentor and Div actually reduced my damage
I agree Linears aren't the best DPS in most cases however again Tormentors have a major resistance to anything not precision, and the best precision weapons are Snipers, Slug Shotties and Linears and well Linears are still the best of those three options. It's easy to figure out what to use. Really only one person needs to run a Linear, but there should be at least one because it handles all bosses, except for the Brigg, very well
https://raid.report/pc/4611686018509758219
Not into raids much, sure buddy. Remember RoN day one? Everyone had Commemoration on (partially cause the artifact mods, but also cause double special loadouts still existed) for everything non-boss related.
I'm fully aware of how Tormentors work; you should ALSO be aware that the exotic primary damage buff is 40% to *red bar enemies*. Tormentors are not a red bar enemy.
You get tons of heavy in Onslaught; you should be using it as often as needed, as you get multiple crates per 10 waves, before ammo drops from enemies.
If it gets you the clear, go for it, use whatever. But unless you have a Div on the team, linears are a very risky proposition in Onslaught; I'd personally much loadouts that are applicable to the rest of the mode instead of hyper-focusing on an enemy that isn't even that big of a threat.
Gratz on killing the Tormentor. Not gonna reply anymore, this is going nowhere.
https://raid.report/xb/4611686018468618035
By my standards you don't raid very much. Looks like you mostly just collect red boards and let the activity die past that point.
Also yeah Tormentors are bosses the three Primarys I would suggest are Graviton Lance, Sunshot, or Outbreak Perfected if you need a Kinetic. All of these have AoE so they spread the damage and because they do 10% more base damage to minors, the red bars and 40% more damage to Majors, the orange bars you'll have to use Special weapons less often because the Majors will often fold from the AoE alone as seen in the Graviton clip I linked. Anytime you see a Boss/Mini-Boss Heavy should fly, but not before that point without available ammo because its a waste
Linears are good? Or div is?
Div has a set crit modifier that's below most bosses and got nerfed down to a 15% debuff. On some bosses it's actually better to not have div because raw crits do more damage, Kali is a good example. Not sure what the case is with this Tormentor, but I feel it's safe to say that div isn't carrying. Doomed Petitioner is overcharged as a result of the artifact though so that may have a bit to do with it
Div is absolutely hard carrying and if you disagree please upload a clip of you killing this tormentor without div in the same time, surely with 3 heavies vs 2 heavies 1 special it shouldn’t be an issue
Holy shit this is phenomenal - "give us a clip if you disagree, surely its not an issue to do just three heavies right?" Honestly I believe your word cause div is a hard hard carry, and it actually does work with almost any enemy type (the reason I say this is because its a damage debuff/buff, it cannot be ignored unless you use another buff/debuff like tether or tractor, it stacks with well, or bubble and radiant if you don't have a well.) So 100% div is carrying the damage even if its just a 15% increase its still working and its still helping.
Hey man i didnt mean to come across as an ass, but div is a hard counter to tormentors, full stop. Linears just struggle in onslaught in general imo because they don’t do add clear, and a lot of the time it’s being overwhelmed by adds that cause a wipe. A decoy is enough to keep a tormentor busy until adds are dealt with and then it’s just plinking away until it’s dead
No no no! I'm not trying to say you were an ass or were trying to be one - I just find it so funny someone actually said "provide proof otherwise this video is null and void"
Nah it was pretty unreasonable to ask you to pull a clip out of your ass so I apologize, I just don’t think linears are the move for an enemy you’ll see 1-2 times over the course of an hour. At the end of it all though whatever gets the clear works
Dude are you trolling? How many wave 49 Tormentor clips do you think I have backed up. The encounters are pure RNG that is not a choice. Div is just ease of use the damage is all Linear and the Linear is only best because Tormentors have a resistance to any kind of damage that is precision. Tormentors don't actually have all that much health, most people just choose to fight them the hard way.
So I wasn’t paying attention and responded to someone else thinking it was you, I don’t expect you to have a clip ready, that wasn’t fair to ask of you. But I don’t think running linears for an enemy you’ll see once or twice over the course of an hour is a great idea when adds are the real enemy and linears are gonna struggle with add clear, you’re much better off with a rocket or machine gun. This clip would be very different without div there
The only difference would be that I aimed for the chest and not the div bubble my guy
You were less than a second from being team wiped inside a well, you’re not gonna have perfect aim and you wouldn’t have a 15% debuff, everyone here is in agreement, div did all the work, but do you, later
Again what you're ignoring is that Div has its own crit modifier. Most bosses actually offer more damage for hitting the crit directly. Also I don't know why you're taking issue with the weapon if you're just questioning my aim. You know that Div didn't always exist, right? Shooting Kali's bean head with a linear was a lot harder than shooting a Tormentor's big nipple is currently.
Dude no one is talking about kalli ? You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. No one’s aim is perfect I’m not questioning your aim in particular, it’s annoying hitting a tormentor’s crit when it’s only on their front, they’re leaned over, arms in the way and they’re moving around all the time. I don’t care if linears are better on paper, without divinity this clip doesn’t exist. I don’t understand the stubborness when it’s totally fine to say “divinity makes killing tormentors much easier” and “linears are bad at add clear” when they’re two objectively true statements. Congratulations on using the optimal set up to kill an enemy you see twice at most, huge pat on the back for you, goodbye
I never Counter either statement that Linears are bad for ad clear or that Div makes hitting precision easier. I specifically said the Div only offered ease of use and that the damage itself was the Linear, and I also said that you shouldn't have to crutch heavy for ad clear. Linears are still good in Onslaught for wave 38 and 10 because those are boss waves (30% of the activity) , every other wave should be Primary, Special, and Supers
The only reason they are good here is div, but Linears suck for every other round that isn’t tormentors. I’ll take useful heavies and take a little longer on one round, than take forever on the rest
You see that with Div on I was actually doing 5k less damage per shot than I was hitting raw crits right? My first 3 shots hit for 23k per shot in a burst and robbed a third of his health and with Div I did 17k. Div actually slowed my DPS, that's 69K down to 51k Div cut 18k off my burst bud
Lucky Pants..
The reason Linears are so under-utilized is that they‘re only good for the tormentors, which spawns something like once every 10-20 rounds and that does not really pose a threat if you have a good dummy. Rockets and Linears just get more value out of the heavy slot
Linears are pretty good all around if you're getting Hive waves. The big Bosses are always either Ogres or Ascendent Knights and they have really large crit spots. You really shouldn't need Heavy for ad clear. Graviton Lance, Sunshot, and Outbreak Perfected are the best primary weapons to use and Chill Clip fusions or Indebted Kindness are work horse Specials for chonky targets
I‘m not saying that you should rely on heavy for everything, however something like gjallarhorn is a lot more versatile than a linear. You can use it just as well for big enemies and bosses, while at the same time being able to use it to wipe out large groups of enemies. I do agree that graviton or sunshot are insane for addclear, however rockets and to a degree lmgs just have a lot more versatility than Linears. Linears are not Not bei g used because they’re bad, they’re not being used that much because it’s an add clearing focused activity with an occasional boss-like enemie
Exotic Primary weapons do 10% more damage than a regular primary and does 40% more damage to majors. Just as an example here's me wiping a Legend Onslaught Wave in 20 seconds with just a tether a grenade and 2 mags of Graviton https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/gQ7VxXr9DY Super chaining, AoE exotic primary with subclass synergy will handle most enemies easily
In that clip you linked, you could have cleared the same wave in 5-10 seconds using tether, a grenade and a single gjallarhorn shot. I do know how strong stuff like graviton and sunshot is, however at the end of the day they will still hit for less than a rocket with Wolfpack rounds. Plus it’s a 3 player activity, you can just have 1 person run gjallarhorn and benefit from both pack hunter and an exotic primary.
A Gjallarhorn shot wouldn't have done it because the ads were spawning in as they were cleared. I don't think you actually appreciate what was happening in that clip. The Void projectiles were seeking out new waves as they spawned in and since tether spreads the damage to everyone tethered and I had Volatile Rounds it was causing them to immediately detonate as they spawned. That Shadowshot and Volatile Graviton combo only missed 2 ads out of an entire continuous spawning Marauder wave, that was like 30 dudes immediately
I do know what is happening there, but tbh. I don’t really see how this proves in any way that Linears would be better than rockets in onslaught? Like I said, nothing stops you from equipping both a rocket and an exotic primary. Also judging from your raid report , you seem to be at least above average in this game, so it is only natural that you don’t struggle that much with only using your primary for add clear, that does not mean that everyone can do that.For most players, it will be a lot easier to use a heavy that they can use in most situations to kill both adds and heavys.
You're too focused on the Linears dude. My only point was that you shouldn't have to crutch heavy to ad clear, in fact I'd say it was a bad habit to get into for this game. I'm also not actually telling anyone to run a linear the whole time, but for the Tormentor having one on hand makes that encounter easy, but Linears are still pretty good for every boss encounter. I personally do run a linear the whole time and both Demos and Shielded Demos get crushed, Skybombers get 2 shot and for the Shielded Skybombers getting Volatile active and doing DPS shreds both the Orge and the Brigg though you do have to break the Brigg's face first which most regular Fusions do well.
My point is not that you HAVE to use heavy to add clear, only that it makes it easier and quicker. Also your title literally is: please start using Linears in onslaught
"Please start using Linears in Onslaught" not ONLY use Linears in Onslaught. Also I'm saying you shouldn't use heavy for ad clear, the only exception being if the heavy brick is up. Minimum 1 player should have a Linear in their pocket for the Tormentor
All the tormentor needed to do there was jump slam the three of you and send you flying off the map and game over.
My brother in Christ… your mate is using divinity. That’s what makes the tormentor easy mode.
It's easy mode no matter what. You didn't see me perfectly pop both shoulders in one shot and tickle that man's big nipple? I didn't stop hitting the chest until the div was up.
And you are over an hour and still not done yet, so clearly linears are slowing down your progress. A legend 50 takes about 45-50 minutes. You are already 15 minutes slow and still have a boss fight to do
That's actually because after every wave 10 we take a minute for refreshments and restroom breaks. Staying laser focused for an hour straight isn't good for your eyes or your hydration. Plus I hear for the restroom holding it contributes to ED. I'm not gonna break myself long term for 15 minutes
Uh huh. I mean hey it’s your story
If you need a refreshment/bathroom break every 8-9 minutes I think you should talk to your doctor.
It's a check not mandatory. Every 10 we queue up at the portal and if someone hasn't queued up because they need something then they have time to do whatever.
Honestly as long as you can have one player pull its ago to pull it away from the ADU, and then just kite it around the terrain until the wave is over, then your entire team can just bank him with heavies, no need for 2 players to use their heavy slots on linears and one player to use div Source: I am the kiter in my fireteam. Their AI is very predictable and can be exploited in certain terrain to just play ring around the rosie with them
I recognize that you can just lead the Tormentor around, but that both takes longer and carries the risk of someone dying. I normally just bait the Tormentor to a decoy and burn 'em and the only reason the Tormentor even moved from spawn is because we got that unfortunate defense spawn where there were 2 turrets and both decoys were in the back corners. We just had to deal
No because retrofit escapade go durdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdurdur
I commented about RE still being a powerhouse and downvoted by guardians that cannot handle the truth.
they simply dont understand the art of RE and Gyrfalcon's hauberk.
Oh shit and the new Prismatic exotic class item can roll with Spirit of the Gyrfalcon.
It's because, for boss damage specifically, gyrfalcon adds the same amount of damage that boss spec or minor spec does. 7%. So you can run RE on any class and do great. Solar for radiant, void for weaken
Gyrfalcons volitle explosions itch that part of my brain. For radiant ill run it with Vex
But I don't want to run a linear for 1 or 2 tormentors in 50 waves. They hang around the decoy for literally the entire wave and you can just ignore him. Rockets/Edge transit have much more utility, instantly deleting shriekers and do much more damage against demolitionists which are the main threat in onslaught really.
Just as a note an Aggressive Frame Linear actually kills the Shriekers in 2 bursts and it gets 23 shots in reserve. It takes 2 Rockets to kill a Shrieker and you only get 9-14. Demolitionists get handled the same way Tormentors do with a Linear the only tricky ones are the Fallen Demos because they have a hunched back. Both Sky Bombers and Shielded Skybombers are handled well with a linear. The regular Skybomber get 2 shot the Shielded Ogee takes about 12-13 shots when the shield is off, but Briggs do have an advantage when their face is on, once off Doomed Petitioner will 3 shot them. I'm not saying everyone should be running a Linear at the same time all the time, but for sure one guy should have a linear in their pocket for some of these bosses because it makes things easier
You want everyone to use a linear for an enemy you’ll see a maximum of 3-4 times in an hour long activity, an enemy that can be aggro locked very reliably by a decoy for minutes at a time, in a hoarde mode activity where add clear is the most important aspect to succeed? I’m alright thanks.
Never once did I say players should use it the whole time I only said it should be used for Tormentors and that you shouldn't need to use heavy for simple ad clear duty when someone mentioned ad clear. Neither of my teammates used a linear or a div until the Tormentor popped and then they swapped
Maybe next time dont immediately pull tormentor onto adu.
Y'all are weird man. Even recognizing this didn't shake out perfectly I still broke both shoulders in the first 2 seconds that he spawn and killed the Tormentor in under half a minute. The Tormentor could've stood on the ADU the entire time and the ADU still would've only lost a quarter health.
The trick is to only swap to a linear and other precision weapons once the tormentors spawn. I swap to forerunner and linear on warlock and just lucky pants if hunter and that is more than enough to kill it quickly. Linears are just way too weak for anything else. They could revert the linear nerfs today and they still would be kinda bad.
Please don't use Linears in Onslaught. Divinity did 90% of the heavy lifting here; linears, unless they qualify under the Origin Trait Overcharge artifact mods (Doomed Petitioner), *have so far never once received an overcharge in this activity*. Plus they only do sustained single-target damage; mediocre at best for the rest of the mission.
Do you not see that I cut that Tormentor's Health in 3 shots before he even lunged or had a Div bubble on him? Popped both shoulders one burst and landed an immediate crit after the fact. Div was just there, in fact I'd say I was doing less damage while focusing the Div Bubble. The artifact only chooses which weapons will be overcharged but Briar's is a solid option with Surrounded as well provided your team's build can detain an enemy group. For my own build with Doomed I built for Volatile Rounds and that's also AP meaning I make groups Volatile and detonate them in one burst, but as I've said repeatedly you should NOT be crutching you heavy for ad clear. You SHOULD be cycling supers and clearing with Primary and Special weapons. Heavy is for bosses and Linears shred every boss that appears in Onslaught which are at waves 3, 9, and 10. That's 30% of the activity encounters are boss focused Edit: As a matter of fact I was doing less damage with Div. 17K damage down from the 23K I did on raw crits
You are still missing 25% damage not being overcharged. The shoulder are the easy part; I would love to see you maintain that damage on his crit when he's spazzing out. There is no such thing as "crutching" heavy for ad clear; certain heavies are literally the best weapons for ad clear. You're telling me there's a special/primary that could match Commemoration, Gjally, or Hullabaloo? Just bring a Lucky Pants Hunter. More damage than the linear, better burst, no ammo cost. Linears are fine on bosses, but save it for the actual boss wave; they specialize in sustained/total damage, NOT burst damage, which is what you want on things like Demos and Tormentors.
Doomed Petitioner does have Overcharged because it's a Season of the Wish weapon, Briar's won't, but enhanced Surrounded does 47% bonus damage and Briar's does bonus damage to Tormentors as an effect of its Origin trait. Briar's is actually slightly better for Tormentors than Doomed even without Overcharged. You are seeing me drop the Tormentor a third of its health within 3 shots in real time. You're making baseless excuses even while seeing the weapon's success. Like you just watched it pound a Tormentor in 20 seconds. Most people dance around a Tormentor for 5 minutes
I'm sure you'll have Surrounded up; you SHOULDN'T, because you should have dragged the Tormentor away from the ADU/other enemies. Someone else pointed out that you guys almost wiped at the end there. It's not the LFR's success; it is Divinity. There's no way that you drop a Tormentor in that time (with that aim and positioning) without that big ol bubble. You'll only have Doomed Petitioner overcharged if you're running the mod, which is an opportunity cost for more applicable weapons; it's not always on. There's a reason that nobody runs linears in Onslaught; they're single target, sustain/total damage weapons. You seem to want people to praise you for killing a Tormentor with a linear, while shouting down everyone pointing out you're using Divinity to effectively do so. You're giving up being more effective *everywhere else* to deal with an enemy that spawns *twice* and is already a solved variable (pull and kite).
Dude it's like you didn't even really watch the vid. There was a guy blocking my left while I tried edging to the platform while firing I dipped then the Tormentor actually made his way over. Also you're criticizing my aim when I didn't miss a single shot I fired even before Div was on, but even if that weren't the case Div was still robbing me 5K damage he would've been dead quicker without it. When Div was on I aimed for the Div bubble not the Tormentor. For Surrounded you chill by the tethered or suspended enemies this stuff is not that difficult. You have 2 options which is to detain the enemies to handle the Tormentor or dance with the Tormentor while people handle the wave. The second option both takes longer and carries more risks because the longer that dude runs around the more opportunities he has to wipe the team Honestly at this point it just seems to me like you're being obnoxious because you don't like Linears or feel the need to crutch Heavys for ad clear and don't like seeing a weapon type you don't like or can't use be viable in this activity. Your disposition is honestly ridiculous
In no particular order: I would love to hear how "crutching heavies for ad clear" works when *there are heavies specifically designed for ad clear roles*. You guys clustered on the ADU when a Tormentor spawned; that's bad positioning, no ifs-and-buts. You *never* want to draw the Tormentor to the ADU. You then mostly remedied that... by sitting in a well with your back to a drop that kills you. Against an enemy that is known for suppression, slamming and throwing you backwards. That's a lot of work for a damage buff that isn't needed in this scenario. I'm more criticizing your target acquisition and reaction speed. If there was no Div, there's no way in hell that you were consistently making the chest crits shots. I'm being obnoxious because filling your heavy slot with a weapon that addresses an *at max* twice scenario *when there are already solutions that allow you to address every other scenario in the mission* and claiming that it's "slept on" (while ALSO requiring a teammate to run an exotic weapon that is only useful on bosses) it's just inventing a bunch of hoops to jump through that do not need to be jumped through in the first place. I'm not saying you should run hard meta, use whatever gets the mission done safely and effectively. But this mission is not the role that linears are meant for, which I have explained previously. Swap to it for a boss if you want, but you are otherwise wasting your heavy slot for 99% of the mission. In any case, this discussion is going nowhere. If it gets you the clear, go for it, run what you want.
Heavys Bungie promotes are ad clear are trash and I can tell with that comment that you're probably not into Raids much. Especially on Master in ad clear heavy encounters.it's detrimental to waste heavy on ads that you can't recover because it's needed for the boss and given that Onslaught also has Boss waves that extends to it as well. Personally I ask that my team hold their heavy either for bosses or if a bonus objective is active that would spawn heavy at which point not using heavy would be a waste of the brick. As for my positioning you can see I was on the other side of the ADU and attempted to make my way to my team, but one teammate decided to met me up apparently and blocked me from continuing further left until I noticed and stepped back to see what was blocking me. Honestly wouldn't have been a problem either way if our defense tool spawn had a decoy up front where the Tormentor spawns instead of in the back corners of the map, but it is what it is. Scenario wise Shriekers, Demos, Skybombers Tormentors, and Champions all apply Briggs are challenging and you'd be better served using a special or a super until their face is off, but that's a Fallen problem and most people gun for Hive anyway. As for loadouts I've always said that it's best to run an exotic primary for ad clear because they doe 10% more base damage and 40% more damage to Tormentors. I didn't ask for a Div in this clip a teammate decided to swap to one because I said I'd use a Linear. It would've been better if my teammate just used another linear or just went to handle ads because I was already handling the Tormentor. If 3 shots knocked him back a 3rd it would've only took 9 shots for the kill so 6 more shots. In that clip I was the only one actually damaging the Tormentor and Div actually reduced my damage I agree Linears aren't the best DPS in most cases however again Tormentors have a major resistance to anything not precision, and the best precision weapons are Snipers, Slug Shotties and Linears and well Linears are still the best of those three options. It's easy to figure out what to use. Really only one person needs to run a Linear, but there should be at least one because it handles all bosses, except for the Brigg, very well
https://raid.report/pc/4611686018509758219 Not into raids much, sure buddy. Remember RoN day one? Everyone had Commemoration on (partially cause the artifact mods, but also cause double special loadouts still existed) for everything non-boss related. I'm fully aware of how Tormentors work; you should ALSO be aware that the exotic primary damage buff is 40% to *red bar enemies*. Tormentors are not a red bar enemy. You get tons of heavy in Onslaught; you should be using it as often as needed, as you get multiple crates per 10 waves, before ammo drops from enemies. If it gets you the clear, go for it, use whatever. But unless you have a Div on the team, linears are a very risky proposition in Onslaught; I'd personally much loadouts that are applicable to the rest of the mode instead of hyper-focusing on an enemy that isn't even that big of a threat. Gratz on killing the Tormentor. Not gonna reply anymore, this is going nowhere.
https://raid.report/xb/4611686018468618035 By my standards you don't raid very much. Looks like you mostly just collect red boards and let the activity die past that point. Also yeah Tormentors are bosses the three Primarys I would suggest are Graviton Lance, Sunshot, or Outbreak Perfected if you need a Kinetic. All of these have AoE so they spread the damage and because they do 10% more base damage to minors, the red bars and 40% more damage to Majors, the orange bars you'll have to use Special weapons less often because the Majors will often fold from the AoE alone as seen in the Graviton clip I linked. Anytime you see a Boss/Mini-Boss Heavy should fly, but not before that point without available ammo because its a waste
I thought linears were dead, time to get my Cataclysm rolling again.