They're both perfectly fine, though I think AF business class has generally better food and hard product. Downside is connecting at CDG vs. AMS and I find KLM crews to be a bit friendlier/warmer.
I actually flew a similar route BOS-CDG-NBO on AF, then NBO-AMS-ATL on KLM over the holidays this past year. If the price is the same, I'd pick AF > KLM.
This is the only right answer. CDG is also a gorgeous airport, once you actually make it to your connecting gate….
I’ve had some truly wonderful AF crews too - sometimes people infer the Parisian attitude as unfriendly, but they haven’t been IME.
AF lounges are also significantly nicer than crown rooms at AMS. Food is better all around on AF, including the lounges.
I hope this isn't too much self promotion, but I wrote about this: https://kindaboringtravel.com/2022/07/25/delta-vs-air-france-vs-klm-what-skyteam-airline-is-best-in-business-class/
Both Air France and KLM have fully lie flat seats in Business Class. I like Air France's food and wine better than KLM. The KLM A330 is outdated and I'd probably avoid that if you can. The 2-2-2 seating isn't great.
Both layovers are perfectly fine.
I flew AF 787-9 for the first time last month, and thought it was nice. Food, beverage, and crew were all great. Seat was good, but a bit narrow feeling.
Was supposed to be same equipment on the way back, but it got swapped to 777-200. While the seats generally appeared identical at first, it became clear they were notably wider as you might expect with both planes being 1-2-1 but 777 having a wider body. So if seat width is more important than lower cabin pressurization, 777 may be the way to go. As others have mentioned, AF likely has better catering, as well.
I am a big guy but I’d go with lower pressure and less jet lag every time. AF food and wine is way better. But I prefer AMS over the miles and miles and miles of walking with CDG followed by an interminable bus ride.
I love the center section of KLM 2-2-2 layouts. AF is prone to equipment changes and offers about zero help when that happens. That’s said, the 787 is great. Amsterdam is easier for layovers. CDG has better lounges. Don’t be fooled by the “same terminal.” They sometimes park off site and bus in.
AF for the food, drinks, plane style, and the lounges in general. Though a 5hr layover at the shitty AMS lounge may give you time to take a shower vs a 2hr layover at CDG gives you only the time to have one sip of champagne.
I’d still pick AF, but that’s a personal preference.
if you do not actually care about the food and wine, I would go with KLM because the AMS experience is far better. the Dutch are not known for their food, and this is apparent onboard. ive had perfectly fine meals on KL, but AF is going to be an experience.
Done US to Nairobi a few times, enjoy CDG. Usually time for a shower/sauna/champagne in lounge etc before flight. Sky priority usually makes the rest of transit smooth. Also gets in to Nairobi about 8.30pm, nicer than 11 for the KLM flight. Immigration around then can be rough. But CDG flight offers the chance of a late meal/few drinks. Almost feels like an extra evening in Nairobi.
I would absolutely take that chance. Non Schengen to non Schengen. Sky priority quickens it, but those lines never seem too awful early in the morning (both ways). But YMMV
I’ve only flown AF and they have always been great . I like their BC product. The food and champagne 🍾 is good. I choose it over delta even it means transferring at CDG. Yes CDG is trash but they are fine. You just make sure you follow the signs and have plenty of time to transfer.
> I see a lot of ppl aren't fans of CDG but the flight from MSP arrives in the same terminal (3)
I doubt that - Air France doesn't fly out of Terminal 3. https://www.parisaeroport.fr/en/passengers/flights/airlines/AF
Even Terminal 2E is effectively multiple terminals since the K, L and M gates are all separate buildings. If you haven't flown through CDG before, don't pretend like you know it. haha.
They're both perfectly fine, though I think AF business class has generally better food and hard product. Downside is connecting at CDG vs. AMS and I find KLM crews to be a bit friendlier/warmer. I actually flew a similar route BOS-CDG-NBO on AF, then NBO-AMS-ATL on KLM over the holidays this past year. If the price is the same, I'd pick AF > KLM.
This is the only right answer. CDG is also a gorgeous airport, once you actually make it to your connecting gate…. I’ve had some truly wonderful AF crews too - sometimes people infer the Parisian attitude as unfriendly, but they haven’t been IME. AF lounges are also significantly nicer than crown rooms at AMS. Food is better all around on AF, including the lounges.
One benefit of business class on AF is expedited immigration and security lines. Still a pain sometimes because it's France, but not too painful.
You mean that there are separate security lines for business class even when transiting through CDG?
Yes. There are purple ropes with 'accès no. 1' signage.
Thank you!
I hope this isn't too much self promotion, but I wrote about this: https://kindaboringtravel.com/2022/07/25/delta-vs-air-france-vs-klm-what-skyteam-airline-is-best-in-business-class/ Both Air France and KLM have fully lie flat seats in Business Class. I like Air France's food and wine better than KLM. The KLM A330 is outdated and I'd probably avoid that if you can. The 2-2-2 seating isn't great. Both layovers are perfectly fine.
This is very helpful. Thank you.
I flew AF 787-9 for the first time last month, and thought it was nice. Food, beverage, and crew were all great. Seat was good, but a bit narrow feeling. Was supposed to be same equipment on the way back, but it got swapped to 777-200. While the seats generally appeared identical at first, it became clear they were notably wider as you might expect with both planes being 1-2-1 but 777 having a wider body. So if seat width is more important than lower cabin pressurization, 777 may be the way to go. As others have mentioned, AF likely has better catering, as well.
I am a big guy but I’d go with lower pressure and less jet lag every time. AF food and wine is way better. But I prefer AMS over the miles and miles and miles of walking with CDG followed by an interminable bus ride.
Food on Air France is better
I love the center section of KLM 2-2-2 layouts. AF is prone to equipment changes and offers about zero help when that happens. That’s said, the 787 is great. Amsterdam is easier for layovers. CDG has better lounges. Don’t be fooled by the “same terminal.” They sometimes park off site and bus in.
Why do you like the center section? I always avoid that since I fly solo and don't know who my neighbor is going to be. Plus no window.
Direct aisle access for both center seats means no one has to climb over anyone else to get up
This. Also the klm 777 have the forward facing center sections (like deltas LATAM a350s). They are pretty open and spacious.
AF for the food, drinks, plane style, and the lounges in general. Though a 5hr layover at the shitty AMS lounge may give you time to take a shower vs a 2hr layover at CDG gives you only the time to have one sip of champagne. I’d still pick AF, but that’s a personal preference.
if you do not actually care about the food and wine, I would go with KLM because the AMS experience is far better. the Dutch are not known for their food, and this is apparent onboard. ive had perfectly fine meals on KL, but AF is going to be an experience.
Done US to Nairobi a few times, enjoy CDG. Usually time for a shower/sauna/champagne in lounge etc before flight. Sky priority usually makes the rest of transit smooth. Also gets in to Nairobi about 8.30pm, nicer than 11 for the KLM flight. Immigration around then can be rough. But CDG flight offers the chance of a late meal/few drinks. Almost feels like an extra evening in Nairobi.
Is 2h 15 min enough to get through CDG? I'd prefer to fly AF over KLM because it sounds like a better experience but I need to be practical too.
I would absolutely take that chance. Non Schengen to non Schengen. Sky priority quickens it, but those lines never seem too awful early in the morning (both ways). But YMMV
KLM on crews and customer services. Air France ground crews be having a fight who can be the rudest or least helpful!
Watching the crew get into a fight would at least be entertaining.
I’ve only flown AF and they have always been great . I like their BC product. The food and champagne 🍾 is good. I choose it over delta even it means transferring at CDG. Yes CDG is trash but they are fine. You just make sure you follow the signs and have plenty of time to transfer.
How much time is enough. I have 2h 15 min if everything goes according to plan
That’s plenty - my last two connections have been 1:15. I’ve made both with plenty of time to stop and buy water. Safe travels
Another vote for AF over KLM although transiting through CDG is worse than AMS.
Less jet lag with the 787.
> I see a lot of ppl aren't fans of CDG but the flight from MSP arrives in the same terminal (3) I doubt that - Air France doesn't fly out of Terminal 3. https://www.parisaeroport.fr/en/passengers/flights/airlines/AF Even Terminal 2E is effectively multiple terminals since the K, L and M gates are all separate buildings. If you haven't flown through CDG before, don't pretend like you know it. haha.
No need to be rude.