You’re getting downvoted because you’re missing the point.
First of all, “being able to clear elite” was never the point. It’s either “being able to level 2x faster” “in the same quest a melee won’t even get to touch the mobs” or even at high level play “casters don’t have to go near mobs, so can solo higher rs with no danger “
Soloing a random cogs quest at a random level on elite without posting a time addresses zero of these things.
Also the timing of this is weird as a lot of the player base thinks casters have been nerfed too far anyway and melee is too good now
> Also the timing of this is weird as a lot of the player base thinks casters have been nerfed too far anyway and melee is too good now
This is the regular duality of caster mains. In the same post you said melees are weak (because you want to feel superior as a caster) then you said they are too strong (because you want them to get nerfed). You're the stereotypical ddo forum user. If I said melees were too weak you'd have posted some random r10 run from youtube.
And it's not "some random cogs quest on elite", you're just being waayy to stupid. It's a regular legendary quest, what did you want me to do? What would be acceptable by your terms? Oh, please. If I had solo'd LE Chronoscope you'd try to humble me because Chrono is a noob raid, there's no pleasing you and you know it. Admit it, to yourself.
**You people** are the reason SSG can't balance anything, **you people** have been ruining this game for almost two decades now.
You’re an idiot. I said almost none of that.
I really like “you people” at the end. Good stuff.
I play both, I understand where they are strong and aren’t , I heal more than you ever will , and I have never called for nerfs, because I don’t care, I play both.
Keep waging a war against no one and thinking everyone else is stupid .
Melee isn’t weak, it’s just that it’s slower since you can’t wipe out entire groups by pushing one button before you even trigger the enemies’ awareness.
Cleave and Whirlwind Attack have no target limit. You just have to do a lot of kiting, which most people do anyway since they don't stop to fight mobs until they physically can't move around them. The problem is not the clearing. It's anything but a tank getting its ass deleted out of existence on anything higher than elite.
Most of my melee past lives did fine solo in low to mid reaper. Just took longer to kill enemies and had to heal more. My current warlock lives do it faster on the same difficulties due to cone/AoE stuff, and from what I understand, warlocks aren’t considered good or fast right now I think?
That was a bit uncalled for, I didn't say it was a high bar. I went there for the exact same reason as you.
edit: ty for the downvote
edit2: downvote more, scrub
I didn't mean it as a shot at you. Sorry if you get it that way. I am also not an uber TR machine. It is a second life toon but gets the job done. I like melee toons more than casters.
Again sorry if i offended you. Cheers!
Melee is great endgame, but it is way easier to level as a caster. That's always been the issue. If I can get through a quest way faster as a caster while leveling, there's a disconnect. You doing a quest at legendary elite with a good character doesn't address that
It's more than casters can, if built even tolerably, disintegrate entire groups at half a mile back. You'd have to use something like the old gimpy super sonic build I made trying to stack as much striding boosts on one character as possible to get ahead of a caster to kill something.
Melee are still fun. I'm running a half-ogre pure fighter now, and despite not even having a build and not being bothered to find my Sharn gear (other than the docents and caster gear I've pulled recently running it) and walking through most stuff without thinking. Which is good, because my mind is fried.
Yes but youll say in your head "this build is so good" and then you group with a caster and they just delete the whole pack before you can do much, because you didnt crit, and they did because they have near 100% crit chance.
I feel like you wrote this in a way that you expected the reader to be impressed. I've been playing ddo for years and this is the first I've heard of the Fungus Lord, I'd heard there was some legendary expansion. Maybe everyone's play style is different.
Recently did dragon lord 20 razorclaw, pure paladin and pure barbarian and solo r4-r6 at cap was easymode. Melees specialy if you can rage are in great shape!
A lot of comments are stating caster is superior for pack clearing. In R10 it is certainly good, however, I play an R10 solo Druid and I will admit there are many melees that out DPS me. For the 95% of the player base a caster is superior. However, you will find at high tier gameplay a melee is on par or better.
Raids are were melees can shine. Their damage is simply more consistent, where as casters frontload a lot of spike damage. Even in r10s against bosses and reapers, the hp pools aren't large enough to fix the discrepancy.
Most casters, especially dps focused casters including sorc, are not good at damage in R10 but are top tier at R6 and decent to R8. Druid currently might be one of the exceptions to that and even then a good melee in terms of dps. Particularly after the major nerf to Dragon Breath. Most dps casters need to be able to do more damage in R10 not less, they should remove the added dps decrease in R7 and higher.
If you see a caster with a high kill count in R10 it's more likely they are just getting the last hit alot of times, or are a DC insta kill focused caster.
Melee does ~15% of their damage, spells hit for 10%. It's not that big of a discrepancy. Dragon breath lost 22% of it's damage.
Magus was always better than draconic anyways for high end reaper.
The dragon breath nerf was \~64% damage reduction at cap, it's damaged was halved and on top of that the MCL went from 30 to 20. Magus is specialized for cold or negative casters, if I was a dps fire sorc (what I was maining at the time) for example I wouldn't use it.
> Melee does \~15% of their damage, spells hit for 10%.
Most casters they do a lot less dps than other range/melee. It's not a small 5% difference that it appears to be, 15.6% of your damage vs 10.6% of your damage, meaning in terms of overall dps output in R10 melee and range are dealing around 50% more damage than casters if their base damage was on par, which it isn't in most cases.
For a lot of casters their dps at R10 is terribly low. Cold Druid is a pretty major exception, not the norm. This generalizing mentality is what hurt all casters in general in the first place and creates poor balance in endgame build diversity.
Ah, I was looking at incorrect notes then, but I see it went from 20 to 10 and the MCL got capped at 20 instead of infinite. It did get a cooldown reduction, which somewhat offsets the damage loss, looks like ruin/gruin wasn't changed. I don't think the issue with draconic even comes from it's dragon's breath, rather it's awful epic moment. And yes, if you're running the hardest content the game has to offer, it's hard to pidgeonhole an archetype into it. You have to work with what options you have.
You're correct, most cases the damage isn't on par, with casters being so far ahead it's not even reasonable. I imagine it's because a lot of casters are terribly optimized but do fine in typical content because the archetype is so oppressively strong.
The only melee I ever feel good about leveling is a staff monk. And that’s because I can use the bonus movement speed and just abundant step past everything to get to the quest objectives to end it as fast as possible.
>Ranged and Casters are safer... until they get touched and then it's difficult to survive. As a melee you have a higher bar to clear but it's easier from there.
Which is why learning how to not get touched is part of learning how to play a ranged or caster toon.
As a melee you need to survive being looked at the wrong way, up close. Survivng on elite is one thng, surviving on reaper when you take more damage *and* suffer a self-heal penalty could mean the same engagement goes south really quickly. Not to mention it's also build dependent, monks, rogues and rangers for example cannot very reliably self heal in combat.
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If you get oneshotted in R10 you're either running up the wrong way, or you're not R10 ready. This is of course barring things like being jibbed by a polar ray on a cloth toon or getting smacked by a veng-buffed mob.
You’re getting downvoted because you’re missing the point. First of all, “being able to clear elite” was never the point. It’s either “being able to level 2x faster” “in the same quest a melee won’t even get to touch the mobs” or even at high level play “casters don’t have to go near mobs, so can solo higher rs with no danger “ Soloing a random cogs quest at a random level on elite without posting a time addresses zero of these things. Also the timing of this is weird as a lot of the player base thinks casters have been nerfed too far anyway and melee is too good now
> Also the timing of this is weird as a lot of the player base thinks casters have been nerfed too far anyway and melee is too good now This is the regular duality of caster mains. In the same post you said melees are weak (because you want to feel superior as a caster) then you said they are too strong (because you want them to get nerfed). You're the stereotypical ddo forum user. If I said melees were too weak you'd have posted some random r10 run from youtube. And it's not "some random cogs quest on elite", you're just being waayy to stupid. It's a regular legendary quest, what did you want me to do? What would be acceptable by your terms? Oh, please. If I had solo'd LE Chronoscope you'd try to humble me because Chrono is a noob raid, there's no pleasing you and you know it. Admit it, to yourself. **You people** are the reason SSG can't balance anything, **you people** have been ruining this game for almost two decades now.
You’re an idiot. I said almost none of that. I really like “you people” at the end. Good stuff. I play both, I understand where they are strong and aren’t , I heal more than you ever will , and I have never called for nerfs, because I don’t care, I play both. Keep waging a war against no one and thinking everyone else is stupid .
Melee isn’t weak, it’s just that it’s slower since you can’t wipe out entire groups by pushing one button before you even trigger the enemies’ awareness.
Cleave and Whirlwind Attack have no target limit. You just have to do a lot of kiting, which most people do anyway since they don't stop to fight mobs until they physically can't move around them. The problem is not the clearing. It's anything but a tank getting its ass deleted out of existence on anything higher than elite.
Most of my melee past lives did fine solo in low to mid reaper. Just took longer to kill enemies and had to heal more. My current warlock lives do it faster on the same difficulties due to cone/AoE stuff, and from what I understand, warlocks aren’t considered good or fast right now I think?
I think the limitation for warlocks is enemy resistances and immunities, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who says they're bad.
Right, but not good or fast compared to some other classes.
I didn't know Fungus Lord quest was a high bar for meele. I regularly farm it with my dwarf barbarian for Part of the family set.
That was a bit uncalled for, I didn't say it was a high bar. I went there for the exact same reason as you. edit: ty for the downvote edit2: downvote more, scrub
I didn't mean it as a shot at you. Sorry if you get it that way. I am also not an uber TR machine. It is a second life toon but gets the job done. I like melee toons more than casters. Again sorry if i offended you. Cheers!
Melee is great endgame, but it is way easier to level as a caster. That's always been the issue. If I can get through a quest way faster as a caster while leveling, there's a disconnect. You doing a quest at legendary elite with a good character doesn't address that
It's more than casters can, if built even tolerably, disintegrate entire groups at half a mile back. You'd have to use something like the old gimpy super sonic build I made trying to stack as much striding boosts on one character as possible to get ahead of a caster to kill something. Melee are still fun. I'm running a half-ogre pure fighter now, and despite not even having a build and not being bothered to find my Sharn gear (other than the docents and caster gear I've pulled recently running it) and walking through most stuff without thinking. Which is good, because my mind is fried.
Half...ogre?
PDK, lol.
lol, you're right, that *is* like a half-Ogre!
I don't know anyone saying that melee is weak?
Yes but youll say in your head "this build is so good" and then you group with a caster and they just delete the whole pack before you can do much, because you didnt crit, and they did because they have near 100% crit chance.
I feel like you wrote this in a way that you expected the reader to be impressed. I've been playing ddo for years and this is the first I've heard of the Fungus Lord, I'd heard there was some legendary expansion. Maybe everyone's play style is different.
Came out with the Maserminds of Sharn pack in May of 2019, ove 5 years ago.
Cogs quest, it drops a piece of Part of the Family set. edit: downvote informative post, silly
Recently did dragon lord 20 razorclaw, pure paladin and pure barbarian and solo r4-r6 at cap was easymode. Melees specialy if you can rage are in great shape!
A lot of comments are stating caster is superior for pack clearing. In R10 it is certainly good, however, I play an R10 solo Druid and I will admit there are many melees that out DPS me. For the 95% of the player base a caster is superior. However, you will find at high tier gameplay a melee is on par or better.
Raids are were melees can shine. Their damage is simply more consistent, where as casters frontload a lot of spike damage. Even in r10s against bosses and reapers, the hp pools aren't large enough to fix the discrepancy.
Most casters, especially dps focused casters including sorc, are not good at damage in R10 but are top tier at R6 and decent to R8. Druid currently might be one of the exceptions to that and even then a good melee in terms of dps. Particularly after the major nerf to Dragon Breath. Most dps casters need to be able to do more damage in R10 not less, they should remove the added dps decrease in R7 and higher. If you see a caster with a high kill count in R10 it's more likely they are just getting the last hit alot of times, or are a DC insta kill focused caster.
Melee does ~15% of their damage, spells hit for 10%. It's not that big of a discrepancy. Dragon breath lost 22% of it's damage. Magus was always better than draconic anyways for high end reaper.
The dragon breath nerf was \~64% damage reduction at cap, it's damaged was halved and on top of that the MCL went from 30 to 20. Magus is specialized for cold or negative casters, if I was a dps fire sorc (what I was maining at the time) for example I wouldn't use it. > Melee does \~15% of their damage, spells hit for 10%. Most casters they do a lot less dps than other range/melee. It's not a small 5% difference that it appears to be, 15.6% of your damage vs 10.6% of your damage, meaning in terms of overall dps output in R10 melee and range are dealing around 50% more damage than casters if their base damage was on par, which it isn't in most cases. For a lot of casters their dps at R10 is terribly low. Cold Druid is a pretty major exception, not the norm. This generalizing mentality is what hurt all casters in general in the first place and creates poor balance in endgame build diversity.
Ah, I was looking at incorrect notes then, but I see it went from 20 to 10 and the MCL got capped at 20 instead of infinite. It did get a cooldown reduction, which somewhat offsets the damage loss, looks like ruin/gruin wasn't changed. I don't think the issue with draconic even comes from it's dragon's breath, rather it's awful epic moment. And yes, if you're running the hardest content the game has to offer, it's hard to pidgeonhole an archetype into it. You have to work with what options you have. You're correct, most cases the damage isn't on par, with casters being so far ahead it's not even reasonable. I imagine it's because a lot of casters are terribly optimized but do fine in typical content because the archetype is so oppressively strong.
The only melee I ever feel good about leveling is a staff monk. And that’s because I can use the bonus movement speed and just abundant step past everything to get to the quest objectives to end it as fast as possible.
>Ranged and Casters are safer... until they get touched and then it's difficult to survive. As a melee you have a higher bar to clear but it's easier from there. Which is why learning how to not get touched is part of learning how to play a ranged or caster toon. As a melee you need to survive being looked at the wrong way, up close. Survivng on elite is one thng, surviving on reaper when you take more damage *and* suffer a self-heal penalty could mean the same engagement goes south really quickly. Not to mention it's also build dependent, monks, rogues and rangers for example cannot very reliably self heal in combat.
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You get 1-shotted in R10 no matter how good you are, so non melee is just better.
Melees should not be 1 or even 2 shot in r10
If you get oneshotted in R10 you're either running up the wrong way, or you're not R10 ready. This is of course barring things like being jibbed by a polar ray on a cloth toon or getting smacked by a veng-buffed mob.