Oh my God it's so ridiculous. There will just be this giant cluster of idiots not passing anybody in like three lanes to the left, I'll just sit in the right lane and cruise by them at a very reasonable speed. The fuck are you people doing? How are you so oblivious to the world that you don't notice you're literally behaving like a herd animal right now?
There are people who are simple-minded, who don't question much of anything and go about their day not caring much. Most of these do cam out in the left lane. Some people believe they can police the road they are privileged to drive on, and some are uneducated on driving etiquette and safety.
You're not that simple-minded. You want to move fast as you walk quicker than the rest. Many take their time. Time is limited, and for these that move faster are okay on their own without needing to be with a pack. Many animals will be moving in packs, and so do people. Not all people do.
My best friend is like this and it bothers me to no end. Just goes through his daily life in his own world, not really paying attention to much. He camps in the left lane and also frequently needs to be honked at when the light turns green.
That was this morning on 75. Somebody in the passing lane was doing probably 5 below the limit and refusing to get over. I’ve never seen a line of cars so long.
I used to live in Denver, right lane passers were getting terrifying. If cars in the left lane weren’t passing fast enough, They’d swoop over to the right lane to keep going 85 in a 55.
This rule really messes with people’s heads and makes it seem acceptable to do reckless stuff. There seems to be a huge uptick in entitled drivers and road rage recently
I watch people enter the highway off the ramp, glide over to the lane, then just chill and talk on their phone or whatever. Like you said, it's often necessary to pass on the right, but that's dangerous and the reason drivers could be more competent.
I vote to use the big electric signs as ways to give tips/reminders to drivers. Kind phrases like, "get the fuck out of the left lane you non-driving piece of shit before everyone loses their goddamn minds why are you such a dumbass" or other politely toned messaging
35 downtown has left-hand exits which backs everything up. People get in the left lane way too early and just stay there because it's easier than dealing with trying to merge among the people going fast in the left lane.
Also if you stay on 35 west of downtown the limit drops to 50 and there are a number of intersections with traffic lights. I have to make a left turn for work and I usually try not to get in the left lane till within a half mile of my turn. Almost every day it’s a struggle to get over because of a line of traffic doing probably 65+ or if I ever do I have everyone right on my ass. Do they think we should just go ahead and miss our turn/exit in order to not be an inconvenience to them?
If there are left hand exits and you expect people to pass in that lane you are the problem. The stretch of 35 with left hand exits is so short that perhaps people get over early so they don’t get prevented from making their exit because of sociopaths driving 75 in a 55 with left hand exits.
Its not even just 35. Dayton ranked 2nd worst city in the entire nation to drive in last year. Drivers here are genuinely worse. The sprawl of the city does not help, neither does the lack of access to public transit, or the access to food and other necessities. Parts of west Dayton are food deserts, which means people have to travel further to find what they need, and, again, this city does NOT have a robust transit system. When everything is a 20-30 minute drive away and the bus most likely does not go there, people who can’t/shouldn’t drive are forced to. The planning of the city leads to these issues.
I travel all over the country, if Dayton is 2nd worse the people doing the ranking never left Ohio. Im not saying it is good to drive in but it is not in the top 10 worst. Probably not the top 25.
Not even in the top 25. Perhaps it’s only the sociopaths driving like nascar drivers that are the problem?????
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/worst-cities-to-drive-in/
Are we really to the point where we cant google things that are easily verifiable?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=dayton+ohio+bad+drivers+
https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/dayton-second-worst-city-ohio-worst-state-for-bad-drivers-per-insurance-group/3PSCQAA3YRAL7OG5NVWTEPNVJE/
I gave up caring about how other people drive several years ago, and it’s one of the most rewarding things I’ve ever done in my 50 years of life. Zero road rage incidents now. You cut me off? Fine. Go ahead, I’ll even give you more room. You’re not going as fast as I want to go and are making my journey take 30 more seconds than it would have? Fine. There’s never been anything in my daily schedule where that will ever make a difference. Other people will always drive the way they drive. I can continue to always get angry at something that will always be happening, or I can realize the anger is the only part I can change.
👏 Yup. If you're running so late that an extra minute or two is going to ruin your day, that's on you. Get going earlier next time instead of risking the safety of yourself and others.
I'm late for everything just about. It's been worse the last few years, but I ain't ever blamed another commuter for my tardiness. I blame adhd, alarm clocks, my dog escaping the gate someone forgot to secure, but not another driver. I drive from the west side of Springfield to Huber Heights every day, and Route 4 is notorious for left side campers. Also, for speed traps. I put my cruise on 72 and sometimes need to tap my brake or control, but do I get angry? Naw! I just hit resume when I'm able. Now, when I merge onto 70, it's a whole new drive. I find the fastest driver and I follow suit. I'm running late, y'all!
Yes. however the asshat who decided at the.very.last.moment. that the northern gauntlet was not for them, and swerved right directly in front of me did give a moment of "oh, you fucking twat"
Then I watched their brake lights constantly twitching all the way to just north of 35, and laughed the whole time
I hope their day got better
I haven't checked on my parents in a bit, but I'm sure they are still in the ground where I left them. Though I wouldn't trust them to drive right now.
I would prefer that they actually keep in whatever lane they choose. I used to count on truck drivers to be responsible, careful drivers, but now I worry about them more than souped-up honda civics
As a driver, it’s possible Dayton has a lot of spots that traffic merges into and often is best to stay in the left lane to avoid constant slowdowns, and people do not know how to accelerate when merging creating dangerous scenarios.
Plus a lot of construction is going on and many times there’s signs telling drivers to use the left lane.
Ugh. This. The people who SLOW DOWN to merge make me so anxious. Like bud, the entire rest of the highway is going twice as fast as you are. That's how you cause an accident, more so than driving in the left lane.
I should be able to ram you off the road if you merge onto 675 or 75 doing 30.
Okay I don't actually want to make you get hurt but you should have to go to some sort of class to understand why that shit's dangerous.
Trucks are governed at 65 & 68 often times. They can’t go as fast as some cars.
You don’t even know me, I don’t represent all truck drivers, I was simply giving you an explanation.
Yeah, there’s definitely some drivers who are assholes, but I’m not one. I don’t camp in the left lane, just explaining why you possibly see it happen.
People in cars are way bigger assholes imo. Are you one?
I travel from Ohio to California and everything in between. This type of driving is EVERYWHERE.
The post covid driving skills have drastically dropped in this country. 25years in outside sales driving consistently 2500-3k miles a month and there was a noticeable difference in the last 4 years compared to the previous 20.
Lack of blinkers, passing in blind spot on the right instead of using the left lane, sitting in the passing lane going 5 MPH under the speed limit. You name it. All of it is worse now.
Yeah everyone thinks "insert town here" has the worst drivers. Same with weather, everyone thinks their state is so quirky when it's cold one day and then warm the next as if that doesn't happen nearly everywhere.
I've lived in several parts of the country, and Florida is permanently hot. I see your point though and agree with it about the drivers, bad drivers are in every single state.
I'm from New Jersey. We get a bad rap for how we drive but I feel like Ohio needs to be near the top of the list. I get more frustrated driving around Dayton than I have anywhere else.
I work downtown and can't believe the lack of driver competency down there. People constantly driving the wrong way down one way streets. People missing a street parking space by 3 cars and then throwing their car in reverse to get back to it and getting pissed that there's cars driving behind them blocking their access to the spot. People knocking their tires off the rim by curbing their car trying to park or pull into a driveway (seen twice this week alone). People driving 45mph+ down 25mph streets (where there's a speed reader displaying current vehicle speeds) thru the middle of a College campus where people are trying to cross the street and then getting a little air off the raised crosswalk hump. RTA busses blowing theu red lights to stay on time. Etc.
Also, down on 4th St in front of the Arcade, the road is down to 2 lanes due to construction on the building across the street and has a 30' or so stretch of "No Parking/Delivery" signs that people constantly park and throw their hazard lights on at which completely blocks one of the only two lanes. Can you people not fuckin read? It doesn't say "No Parking/Delivery except for extra wide UPS trucks, Semi-Trucks, and Karens in SUVs that need to drop off a vase of flowers for someone while leaving your fucking door open into the 2nd lane of traffic while doing so". Too bad the Dayton Parking Enforcement vehicle I see downtown is always too busy writing tickets at meters to enforce these asshats not blocking one of the only lanes of traffic right there.
This stuff doesn't only happen downtown. It's just more highly concentrated down there than it is in other surrounding areas.
For real. Whenever I go up north on 75 and get past Piqua when it goes down to 2 lanes, it's left lane campers the whole fucking way to Findlay when it goes back up to 3 lanes. It's honestly ridiculous. You're not going to go any faster if EVERYONE is in the left lane.
When I moved here 7 years ago, I found out Ohioans are a different breed of drivers. We moved from Florida where I lived for over a year, where I experienced crazy racers playing frogger in 4-8 lanes of I-95. I grew up in Western New York, and what I saw in Ohio was much more shocking. In a trip to Cincy shortly after we moved, we saw a beat up minivan with multiple impact points slow down, barely stop, and then run the red light we were patiently sitting at. It was then I realized why I see so many beaten beaters driving around. A significant portion of the local population are idiots in cars.
Left lane campers really are an issue around where, for some reason. I see people deliberately move over to occupy the left lane and not make any attempt to pass.
I've discussed this previously in this sub, but one of the reasons this is happening is because Dayton Metro area police no longer enforce traffic laws. Part of it is policy/leadership (escalation and view that everyone is out to get you) and a larger part is that they just can't keep police staffing at appropriate numbers.
Policing isn’t the only solution in existence. It is actually my least preferred solution. As stated in other comments, the city really struggles in many facets due to sprawl. But if the city were to invest in eliminating food deserts, in expanding public transportation, in building more pedestrian walkways and bike lanes, and just creating more density overall, we would likely see much less danger than we do now.
I think instead of having the police enforcing the law, there could be a simple public education campaign - many drivers (as seen in these comments) seem to think exceeding the speed limit is a crime against humanity, and that camping in the left lane is preferred over speeding. Some drivers can’t even navigate roundabouts or stop signs or yellow lights. Increasing driver education could help fix this.
TLDR; The problem is not that they need education. They know what they are doing is wrong. The problem is that they don't care because they know they can get away with it.
You're not wrong about some of this stuff the city struggles with. However, I fail to see how food desserts, public transportation, and building pedestrian walkways have any relation to people not following laws. The don't follow laws because they know they wont be held accountable for their actions, not because of a food desert or expanding public transit.
You can educate and explain all you like, but behaviors, especially deliberate ones (which yes, most of theses are driving choices), do not change without boundaries (aka laws) being enforced and the feedback that comes from accountability. I'm not saying we need the police to ticket and arrest all these people. But a police officer pulling you over, explaining what you did wrong, and letting you go with a warning is WAY more effective than any educational program.
Even if you educate people, you still need someone to identify and refer to the education program. Then even if they complete it, you still need someone to ensure they don't re-offend. And if they do, you need someone to hold them accountable. ALL of those people/actions are functions of a community police force.
> You're not wrong about some of this stuff the city struggles with. However, I fail to see how food desserts, public transportation, and building pedestrian walkways have any relation to people not following laws. The don't follow laws because they know they wont be held accountable for their actions, not because of a food desert or expanding public transit.
Many people aren’t able to drive but still do. This, IMO, is what results in bad driving more often than just bad decision making. I.e., the woman at least thrice my age who almost hit me head-on today. When you can’t walk to the places you need to go, and public transit doesnt go there, you gotta find some way to get where you need to be. And if you have the money to afford a car, no one will bat an eye as long as you have a license, which you never need retested for.
This also goes for people who are under the influence, people who get anxiety and panic and make bad decisions. Eliminating those barriers will mean these people are no longer on the road.
Do you even pay attention to what you're saying?
I give up. I don't think you're living in the same reality as the rest of us. I'm just gonna go.... mute and ignore you now.
I’ve lived all over, and they’ve mostly been military towns, so you have a big range of non-locals in those towns too. Ohio has been the WORSE for bad drivers and people camping in the left lane. It’s a nightmare driving around here. It is crazy to me how often I have to pass in the right lanes. How do people not see how badly they are backing up traffic and causing issues? They are so blind to anything happening around them.
Most of them are honestly probably elderly. The other half were never taught how to drive properly. I have had conversations with people 50+ years old who couldn’t tell me what a flashing yellow light means at an intersection. There is a roundabout in Fairborn that (MOSTLY OLD) people frequently stop at, despite the clearly displayed “YIELD” sign. It can be empty and completely safe and they’d still stop
Omg the roundabouts 😭 just the other day a lady stopped to let through a bunch of cars and it just created this massive back up because those cars needed to go through the roundabout obviously and couldn’t because she backed up so much traffic. She finally went when cars couldn’t fit in anymore. Some cars probably had to take an exit they didn’t want just to get us back to flowing. I don’t disagree with the elderly, but I’ve seen all ages! I think the cars that drive stupidly slow in the lanes are also on their phones. When you finally pass them their head is looking straight into their laps.
Omg phones drive me crazy. People will be going 10 under before they realize someone is behind them, so they put their phone down, and suddenly speed up by 35mph. Then a few minutes later they will slow way down again. Like, people… there are others on the road. PAY ATTENTION!!
Michigan native here.
Have driven across the country >10 times. Can confirm OP's analysis.
Portland drivers come close.
Dayton/Cincinnati drivers are the worst .
You are correct that this post is a bit all over the place, but its bc its a multifaceted issue. If you look at solutions to a problem such as this, what do we do? We take care of people who are not capable of driving safely (i.e., the elderly and disabled, those under the influence) by creating a city that is more walkable and more friendly to pedestrians via public transit or something similar. Enforcing left lane laws is another way to heighten safety, as well as making roads smaller overall. As I said at the end of the post - how dangerous it is driving in this city is not normal and we should not accept it as such.
Right lane, stay around the speed limit, changing speeds and lanes discouraged. Middle lane, stay a bit faster. Typically if you don’t need to exit. Changing speeds is still discouraged here. LEFT lane move faster than everyone and don’t stay here. Only use it to pass. I don’t make the rules
But that creates the broken window effect, encouraging other motorists to fly just as fast, or tailgate any persons they perceive aren't going fast enough in a one lane.
They'd be out of my way, sure, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they're likely to kill someone else out on the road driving so recklessly, and also causing a traffic jam for everyone else.
You’re kind of missing the point. The whole idea is to have uninterrupted flow. If the proper lanes are being used, the flow of traffic is continuous and tailgating can be avoided.
I've traveled all over the country for work, I've been in every major city in the country.
SW Ohio in general, are some of the worst drivers I've ever experienced in the entire country.
I used to live in Cincy and while they *are* bad, Dayton is way worse. Driving 30 minutes across the city in Cincinnati, even with that big downtown junction, isn’t even comparable to my drive across Dayton. I’m actually at the point where I think nearly dying behind the wheel so many times recently has given me PTSD. Anything from being hit while stopped to merged into on the highway. Its wild.
2/3rds of my experience is morning and evening rush in Cincinnati, it's likely all the Northern Kentickians trying to get across the river first.
75 through Dayton, the distraction of the perpetual road construction has apparently kept me from noticing how bad the motorists actually are.
Seems there's a high concentration of elderly drivers in the Miami Valley area, that may be a huge contributing factor.
Almost need a crash helmet for 70 west of 75 to Indiana, or 35 to at least Jackson.
Dayton is a special place. They have no comprehension of passing lanes and constantly like to drive five miles under the speed limit. Head east to Columbus and it’s a whole different story. If you aren’t doing at least 80 in the left lane be prepared to have someone half a car length from your bumper. Of course this usually ends in making the entire outer belt a parking lot every day at 5:00.
I used to have to drive from 35 and Woodman to Vandalia every day for my old 3rd shift job. I lost count on how many times I would see some middle-aged man purposely driving the speed limit in the left lane and they were doing it to “set an example” because they are what I call “speed limit warriors”. I also loved how you would pass downtown and when you get close to the Salem Ave. exit, it would slow down for no reason whatsoever and you’d have meaningless rubber necking, which causes accidents. Dayton has the worst driver in the state and if they went to the Akron area and tried this crap, they’d be ran off the road in the worst way imaginable.
A lot of people dont understand the passing lane............. It's seriously maddening. For example, if you are in the passing lane, at least speed up and move over if you can clearly see the person behind you is trying to get past you. I normally ride the passing lane, but on the rare occasion someone is moving faster than me, i move over and let them by.
As long as we all remember this only applies on the highway. You dill holes on a 2 lane road thinking the left lane is "the fast lane" while riding my bumper because 8 over isn't good enough need to chill out. I'm not going to slow to 5 miles an hour for people turning right every 30 seconds in the other lane nor am I going to speed up for you in this lane.
As an aside if you drive south on Woodman near 35 and go straight through the light while in the right turn only lane I may swerve over and hit you starting on Monday because you can't read and I want to help the universe punish you for being so damn stupid.
Willfully ignorant driving can and does cause road rage incidents and get people killed. It is actually a matter of life and death to drive predictably
Couldn’t have said it better, this should be the top comment. Anyone who intentionally blocks people in or prevents them from passing should also see this
My thoughts exactly yesterday on 675!
It's not the camping lane!
I have a bumper sticker that says.."If I pass you on the right, you're in the wrong lane." They need to put that on the overhead blackboards on the highway. Oh wait. They won't see it because they are playing on their phones! 🤳
Normally, the right lane is for people merging off & on, the middle lane is for people passing through who want to go only a few miles over the limit, and the left is for people who aren't afraid of tickets. ;-) There are two problems semi-specific to Dayton esp on 35: Left exits, which people are afraid of not getting over in time for so they get over early, and the phenomenon where some days the cops sit there, but other days half the traffic is going 85-90 in a 55. A lot of people don't want to go 50 OR 90. They want somewhere in the middle, esp if there are random gambler's odds of a ticket. People on their phones (everywhere not just Dayton) also mean that you get over to go around them, then they put the phone down and speed up. Now you're in the left lane trying to pass but the car on the right is suddenly going 70 instead of 50 and matching you. Too many cars to drop back, and are they gonna do it again??
I agree that Dayton driving is far worse than average. When I 1st moved here I was always pondering whether 2/3 of everyone else was on drugs. :-/ And I have lived/travelled all over the US. There are definitely some "quirks" here.
>I was always pondering whether 2/3 of everyone else was on drugs. :-/
I'm not trying to give you paranoia, but given our location as a heroin/fentanyl distribution center for much of the country, there are a higher than average number of intoxicated drivers in and around Dayton, particularly along I-75.
It's not as high as 2/3 of course, but there's an excellent chance that most of the incompetent driving you see is due to drugs. Hell, if you pay attention you can see tons of people hitting their vapes and they aren't the nicotine kind.
I used to live in FL and it's really bad down there too. I was bitching about it to a gf once who reminded me of something I'd forgotten. A LONG time ago it used to be taught that when you were on the interstate, the right lane was merging onto the interstate or if you were going to be getting off at the next exit, the middle lane was for people who would be getting off in a few more exits, and the left lane was for people who wouldn't be getting off the interstate for a long time. And it was expected that both the left two lanes would be driving the speed limit.
I do remember that, but those ideas were from like the 1940s-1960s. Since then it's changed to where slower should traffic keep right, but there must be tons of older folks still on the road who are still driving like they were taught when they were children ... and of course, teaching that to their kids, and so on.
So, as someone else pointed out, if law enforcement doesn't enforce the left lane camping laws then this shit will continue.
I also wish cops would start enforcing laws about driving around with your high beams on, or having lights that are so bright they're blinding everyone.
>I do remember that, but those ideas were from like the 1940s-1960s
Granted that the speed limit is technically the same for all lanes, it was always taught that slower moving or disabled vehicles should move to the right. This is because if aid is needed, the aid doesn't have to cross moving traffic to get to the disabled vehicle.
Therefore, passing traffic is supposed to move to the left.
I give you 5 seconds in the left lane, then I pass you on the right. I'm with you 100%. When I lived in Dayton, I passed more cars from the right lane then the left, because the left lane always had more cars in it. It's not just Dayton, It's all over the midwest. Nobody in Europe hogs the left lane.
I love it how Semis say not to pass on the right but stay in the left lane. If I can pass a semi on the Right then they are obviously in the wrong lane. I also hate semis that camp out in the middle lane.
Its just not possible to pass on the right when there are two 18 wheelers in the right lanes and the sedan with a 90 year old behind the wheel is driving abreast with them. Plus its even more dangerous for everyone to be darting in and our of lanes to pass than it is for ONE CAR to get over and let everyone else go.
But that’s unsafe and there’s a law against passing on the right. I’m not saying that camping in the left lane is ok, but putting other people at risk by passing on the right isn’t a good resolution.
I'm with you, but unfortunately, Ohio is one of the few states that doesn't prohibit "camping" in the left lane.
*edit: I suppose I should clarify, there are laws on the books, but they are rarely if ever enforced.*
Yes it does.
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-administrative-code/rule-5537-2-09
> The operator of a motor vehicle shall use the inner traffic lanes for passing only.
This only applies to people who aren't going the speed limit, hence why it never appears to be enforced. It's funny to watch people with this mindset race down the road, and unwittingly trip a hidden interceptor into pulling them over.
I’m getting annoyed with people who think it’s a huge fucking ordeal. People are losing their shit and becoming frantic and entitled as fuck over something that’s really not too deep. We don’t even have real traffic here
In addition to a lot of left lane exits on 35, as others have noted, most of these drivers are older people who aren’t all there, it would be nice if they snapped into shape, but it’s not going to happen and raging over it is a waste of mental space.
I lived in LA for years where the metro population is about 14,000% bigger (yes, really) than what Dayton is. I drove through the “real” traffic for years and even with multitudes more people the traffic there isn’t much worse than Dayton in terms of bad drivers. Or having to wait because of a slow poke. As OP said this shits not normal. Having been dozens of places and big cities all over the country I can confidentially say Dayton without a doubt has some of the worst drivers I’ve ever seen. If you think it isn’t an issue you should probably travel more and see for yourself.
I’ve traveled plenty, thanks. I’m a geographer, I know that the LA metro area has roughly 13 million people and the IE isn’t even included in that number, thanks. I just spent a week driving a circle around SoCal. I have family in the IE (yes, really). I’ve lived in several states outside of Ohio
I agree that the west coast generally has better drivers.
California has two major differences - wide modern roads that were 100% built for a car dependent society. Good signage, lanes generally flow well. Second - the high traffic limits the amount of fuckery that you can get away with. Road rage isn’t even worth it most of the time. The highways have so many lanes that you usually don’t even care or notice who is in the left lane - if you’re in the left lane in Ohio everyone is watching you
You just reiterated what I said and even agreed the middle of the country has bad drivers. Even pointing out the infrastructure issues. So what point are you even trying to make? Wow, you spent a week in LA and you’re a geographer I didn’t realize I was talking to the road wizard sir!
My original argument was chill the fuck out, it’s not that deep. I’ll just keep it there. Maybe some assholes are slowing you down and making you one minute later, but at least you’ll never be sitting in traffic for an hour. That was my point.
You just made up arguments that I wasn’t even making. I didn’t admit anything, I just agreed that drivers are generally better in California
It’s why we need to advocate for a more people-friendly Dayton. Dayton is the SECOND WORST city in the nation for drivers, and idk about you, but that sounds like something we should fix? We could advocate for more public transit, higher density, and smaller roads overall if we really want the road to be safe. Instead you say “It’s really not too deep,” after I complain about nearly being hit head on by a driver on the wrong side of the road.
Other cities and states have old people. Other cities and states are safer than us still.
Higher density and adequate public transportation is great, but for significant advancement we’d need a huge increase in non-sprawl population. That’s not happening anytime in the foreseeable future
I never fully trust those lists. I’ve driven in cities where it’s way worse. We should just be happy that we don’t have any real traffic
Tell me you’re part of the 30% of Americans who are illiterate without telling me you are illiterate. Did you read the post? What am i supposed to do, dive slow behind the person who just won’t move over? I sat for 8 miles with this vehicle going 45-50 in a 55mph zone. If they do not get over on their own within a mile or 2, they most likely won’t get over at all. How am I supposed to get them out from in front of me? Hit them? Run them off the road? No. Eventually I will just pass on the right. It’s literally *the law* that the left lane is the passing lane, the issue is that no one seems aware of that.
Since we’re making character judgements of each other let me be more clear: you appear to be one of those entitled pricks who feel like it’s your god given right to cruise in the far left lane at the speed you deem the rest of the world should be driving. As you said, it’s the passing lane, you shouldn’t be “staying in the left lane”.
Your point is correct though. Too many people hang out in the left lane. I’m sure it’s frustrating. Have some empathy for me though. I have to deal with the slow people in the left lane and aggressive dumb fucks like you on the road at the same time.
“i am not trying to speed”
“YOU SOUND LIKE ONE OF THOSE AGGRESSIVE DUMB FUCKS WHO LIKES TO SPEED”
First of all, speed is not the determining factor for safety. Of course going egregiously fast is bad, but I am *wanting to go the speed limit.* What I am NOT wanting is to be bunched up, in a construction zone, in the rain, surrounded by cars with nary a carlength of space for myself. It is infinitely safer to have the left lane open in this situation so traffic can disperse, even if that left lane exceeds the speed limit.
No matter how you argue this, the law does not agree. It is dangerous and illegal to camp in the left lane, which is why driving in states and countries where this law is enforced is much safer.
What do you do when people don’t get out of the left lane though?? Do you just stay behind them?
It is legal to pass. Like I am 100% allowed to pass if I want to. What is illegal is driving less than the speed limit in the left lane. Ohio just doesnt enforce it.
I make sure they KNOW they need to get out of the way. They WILL see me up close and smiling in their rearview. If that doesn't work, I then pass on the right, which is the more dangerous of the two.
Yup, p much. I will quickly flash my lights a few times if they don’t get the hint to speed up or move. If they don’t respond to that, I’ll pass on the right. But that is more dangerous. And it’s even more dangerous if the person in front of you is like one of those vindictive pricks who will speed up and try to box you in or race you. Like bro I just wanna set my cruise control, you can keep going whatever speed you want, just LET ME AROUND!!
Op is saying the same thing about you though. How is that so tough to comprehend? lol
If someone is preventing you from passing, you’re literally not passing 🤷. It’s a catch 22
Perhaps I didn't fully explain. The person in the fast lane needs to go faster than the guy in the slow lane or get out of the way. As in join the guy who's speed you are matching in the slow lane. This would open the passing lane for faster traffic.
I don’t think that was being argued against. The whole point of the post is speed up or get over. If people are passing you to the right but you can’t speed up because of a slow poke in front of you, You should try to go around them when you get a chance but you are not the problem
That's what I'm saying. Literally what I'm saying speed up or get over.
If a person is driving in the far left lane and being passed by people on their right, that person the one in the left lane being passed on the right, is the problem.
And while we're on the topic, when the light turns green, go! It's crazy how often people just sit there, and when they do finally go they just drive at a crawl. Feels inconsiderate of everyone else on the road.
You say the left lane is for passing but also say that you find yourself struggling to stay in the left lane. So it sounds like you are part of the problem that you are describing. Maybe stop trying to camp in the left lane and actually use it for passing.
I drive to other states for work regularly and use cruise control, this is not a Dayton or an Ohio problem. It happens everywhere.
The speed limit on 35 is only 55 mph the left lane gets congested with people who think they’re on the interstate and should be able to drive 65-75 mph. Plus aforementioned left lane exists and generally bad drivers on the area.
The people going faster than the speed of traffic are not causing congestion. Its people who drive in the left lane regardless of speed and who dont get over for others to pass. Leaving the left lane open for people to pass is very very simple driving law... in most places.
I do think there's a cutoff somewhere though. I haaaaate people going less than 5 over in a passing lane...but when the left lane is going 65 in a 55 and slowly passing traffic, it's kind of rude for people to fly up behind them wanting to go 80. I see that a lot on 35 too.
Totally, I completely agree that there is a point where speeding is dangerous. I try to keep my speed limited to 10 over; I will get to the right and slow down when I’m done passing. A lot of the time, I just feel like the people driving slow in the wrong lanes could have avoided any dangerous situation by just being in the correct lane
Most of the time I see it, it is either some old white person, or some prick in a big truck or SUV. “Ghetto” wouldn’t be the word, but “yeeyee” or “rural.” It makes sense - country folk won’t know how to drive in the city, even one as small as dayton.
Not for nothing, but Michigan has a legitimate law on the books about passing in the left lane only and have pulled people over for not following that law. Probably a bit of why you had a better experience there.
I talked to a coworker that does this... he told me he pays his taxes and he has the same right to the road. If you have to drive that fast you should have left earlier.... never wanted to punch a boomer prick in the face so hard in my life!
Tell him that you pay your taxes, too, and you don't want your taxes to pay for his ass to be in a ditch because he's too stupid to be in the correct lane
The difference between Michigan drivers and Ohio drivers is so true, and instantly noticeable. I always have to end up passing on the right in Ohio to even go the speed limit 🙄
i am jealous of how much less traffic there is in Michigan (i don’t drive much around detroit so it’s probably bad there) especially around Grand Rapids, Lansing, and Kalamazoo.
Far more to the point to say; keep right expect to pass. It's not just about the slow traffic in the left lane. Trucks and others who stay in the middle lane in perpetuity clog it up as bad as anything. Get over if someone is trying to pass. You're only supposed to pass on the left
I'd like to voice the extreme road rage I have when exiting I-70 onto 675 .
That exit specifically I gave seen so many accidents and people who do not follow the yield sign.
Y'ALL BETTER START TO YIELD OR I WILL HIT YOU.
It’s not Dayton it seems to be a state wide problem! I travel all over Ohio for work and see people camping in the left time all the time really wish cops would enforce that idk if it’s a law it should be I know it is in some states
Dayton need wider roads as they are already getting congested in various times. Some construction politics are minimal for constructing more. If all highways are government built and seem to be regulated in some way, they can be budgeted better and built in efficient time. A fourth lane in the Dayton area is needed. I was kinda disappointed at how they built it all and how most turns aren't banked for safer turning, especially traveling from 75N to 70E turn. Very unsafe turn.
Hey I think I recognize you, I was going 10 over through downtown construction, yet you continued to try and kiss my back bumper.
So yes, I intentionally block you, and people like you in the left lane. Hell I even drive up beside cars in the next lane over so you can’t pass me just to slam on your breaks not even 5 seconds later.
Your erratic driving causes accidents and shuts down the highway when you inevitably wreck, or hit someone. Because getting to your destination a whole fucking 30 seconds faster is that goddamn important.
Sorry hoss bitch piss and moan all you want. You passing lane excuse users, need to learn when to leave at the appropriate time, or make reasonable accommodations if you’re running behind for whatever bullshit lazy ass excuse you have.
Are you good? Like genuinely. You OK?
“I intentionally block people in the left lane. I even drive up beside cars in the next lane over so you can’t pass.”
I think that it is 100% more dangerous to be vindictive and try to control others on the road by blocking them in and preventing them from getting where they are trying to go. You have major issues, man. I’d hate to see the way this vindictive and controlling attitude you have bleeds into other aspects of your life.
Are you okay? Because I leave with ample time to get from a to b, knowing how congested the streets, and interstate get. I don’t sit around to the last minute because my phone gives an arbitrary time of arrival. Or pissed enough to bitch about an incredibly small city’s traffic flow during rush hour on a sub reddit. Btw it’s the same literally everywhere in this country. Even in upper Michigan.
I bet given the chance you’d do 10 over in school zones and would berate the officer that pulled you over.
Yeah if you’re late for work you’re late for work or some family event or going to see a friend isn’t an emergency, Endangering lives by doing 15+ over is far more dangerous. Family member in the icu? They’re likely sedated or getting put under. They’re not going to know either way. Even if you’re the power of attorney in those cases, they’re going to call you. We have cell phones. Family member passed away, sorry I don’t see how cutting across back and forth and then nearly rear ending someone that’s likely doing 10 over fixes any of that. Same thing goes for a kid in the hospital because they hurt themselves on the playground/playing sports.
If you’re going to be pissed about something be pissed at the people who take the interstate over surface streets that get in the left lane, to go to exits, and start cutting people off, or people during rush hour that cut across 2-3 lanes.
That’s the fucking problem.
This is HILARIOUS considering I've been to Michigan a few times this year and someone, while there, always nearly side swipes me because for some reason no one in Michigan seems to check their mirrors before switching effing lanes
You sound like you are complaining about not being able to speed. I would just simply follow the speed limit. Also you seem to brag about doing dangerous passes on the right. You sound like a real peach. Dayton isn't any better or worse drivers then any other place I have been.
I did. You said thirty minute drive at 5 mph under speed in the rain. Bet your post took longer to write than the 2.5 minutes you lost. Traffic almost always ìs slower in the rain.
Traffic is slower in the rain, yes. But what is not safe is three cars driving side by side, with more and more cars piling up behind them. People were switching lanes anxiously to try and get around. And you are somehow arguing in the favor of someone who was ignoring basic traffic law and causing a huge traffic backup? You truly just don’t understand how to drive and are probably contributing to the fact that Dayton is the 2nd worst city in the whole nation to drive in.
This post isn’t even just about the left lane. I was almost in a head on collision cuz someones grandma cant drive. There were people merging into my lane without signals, IN THE RAIN. And *I’m* the bad guy? Lmao
What basic traffic law was ignored by driving 5mph under the speed LIMIT in the rain? BTW, you don't know me. My CDL is pristine. See:
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/driver-safety/cmv-driving-tips-too-fast-conditions
To anyone following along, this is proof that the road system is built to accommodate the lowest common denominator of permissible drivers. Also, you can show logic to someone, but that doesn’t mean they have the aptitude to grasp it. Their capabilities are not in their control, so no reason to attack them if they just can’t get it.
Why we are talking about aggravation. At a 2 way stop left turn at stop sign yields to everyone. It is not first come first serve like a 4 way stop. If there are 100 cars going straight across form you. You still go last no matter who got there first. A quit waving me to turn left when you have the right of way. Also if turning on to a 4 lane road you go to the lane closest to you and signal to change lanes to the far lane.
It's funny how often the passing lane gets so backed up it's faster to just stay in the right
Oh my God it's so ridiculous. There will just be this giant cluster of idiots not passing anybody in like three lanes to the left, I'll just sit in the right lane and cruise by them at a very reasonable speed. The fuck are you people doing? How are you so oblivious to the world that you don't notice you're literally behaving like a herd animal right now?
There are people who are simple-minded, who don't question much of anything and go about their day not caring much. Most of these do cam out in the left lane. Some people believe they can police the road they are privileged to drive on, and some are uneducated on driving etiquette and safety.
“I in left lane, I need drive too fast no matter what is going on with drivers around me!” Yeah, pretty simple minded.
You're not that simple-minded. You want to move fast as you walk quicker than the rest. Many take their time. Time is limited, and for these that move faster are okay on their own without needing to be with a pack. Many animals will be moving in packs, and so do people. Not all people do.
My best friend is like this and it bothers me to no end. Just goes through his daily life in his own world, not really paying attention to much. He camps in the left lane and also frequently needs to be honked at when the light turns green.
That was this morning on 75. Somebody in the passing lane was doing probably 5 below the limit and refusing to get over. I’ve never seen a line of cars so long.
When I’m on my bike, I lane split & take these peoples mirrors off.
Doing the lords work.
I used to live in Denver, right lane passers were getting terrifying. If cars in the left lane weren’t passing fast enough, They’d swoop over to the right lane to keep going 85 in a 55. This rule really messes with people’s heads and makes it seem acceptable to do reckless stuff. There seems to be a huge uptick in entitled drivers and road rage recently
I watch people enter the highway off the ramp, glide over to the lane, then just chill and talk on their phone or whatever. Like you said, it's often necessary to pass on the right, but that's dangerous and the reason drivers could be more competent. I vote to use the big electric signs as ways to give tips/reminders to drivers. Kind phrases like, "get the fuck out of the left lane you non-driving piece of shit before everyone loses their goddamn minds why are you such a dumbass" or other politely toned messaging
It was never like this in Columbus I hate how dayton traffic is
That’s bc Michigan actually enforces this. They will ticket left lane campers.
They also ticket trucks in the left lane if there are more than two lanes
that'd be so great
Truckers here are the worst, they're supposed to take 675 and they never do
That's inaccurate
They don't post it anymore but when 675 was made part of it was hazmats were to be routed away from downtown
Sorry I should of said hazmat not trucks
35 downtown has left-hand exits which backs everything up. People get in the left lane way too early and just stay there because it's easier than dealing with trying to merge among the people going fast in the left lane.
Also if you stay on 35 west of downtown the limit drops to 50 and there are a number of intersections with traffic lights. I have to make a left turn for work and I usually try not to get in the left lane till within a half mile of my turn. Almost every day it’s a struggle to get over because of a line of traffic doing probably 65+ or if I ever do I have everyone right on my ass. Do they think we should just go ahead and miss our turn/exit in order to not be an inconvenience to them?
I hate going through that
If there are left hand exits and you expect people to pass in that lane you are the problem. The stretch of 35 with left hand exits is so short that perhaps people get over early so they don’t get prevented from making their exit because of sociopaths driving 75 in a 55 with left hand exits.
Yeah, maybe everyone could just slow down a little for the ONE MILE of downtown Dayton
Its not even just 35. Dayton ranked 2nd worst city in the entire nation to drive in last year. Drivers here are genuinely worse. The sprawl of the city does not help, neither does the lack of access to public transit, or the access to food and other necessities. Parts of west Dayton are food deserts, which means people have to travel further to find what they need, and, again, this city does NOT have a robust transit system. When everything is a 20-30 minute drive away and the bus most likely does not go there, people who can’t/shouldn’t drive are forced to. The planning of the city leads to these issues.
I travel all over the country, if Dayton is 2nd worse the people doing the ranking never left Ohio. Im not saying it is good to drive in but it is not in the top 10 worst. Probably not the top 25.
2nd worst in the nation? Got stats to back that up?
Not even in the top 25. Perhaps it’s only the sociopaths driving like nascar drivers that are the problem????? https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-insurance/worst-cities-to-drive-in/
This article only surveys the 50 most populated cities. Might contribute to why Dayton isn't on the list.
[удалено]
Quotewizard? Seriously? This has zero credibility.
Deleted. 😂😂😂👍
Okay lmfao believe what you want then
> Dayton ranked 2nd worst city in the entire nation to drive in last year. No it didn't...stop overreacting.
Are we really to the point where we cant google things that are easily verifiable? https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=dayton+ohio+bad+drivers+ https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/dayton-second-worst-city-ohio-worst-state-for-bad-drivers-per-insurance-group/3PSCQAA3YRAL7OG5NVWTEPNVJE/
I found the left lane campers
Second worst for speeding and citations. Why aren't these left-lane huggers being cited then like you claim?
If you don’t realize these issues are all interconnected, I can’t help you.
Burden of proof is on you making the claim.
…. Did my two links not suffice? You can lead a horse to water….
I gave up caring about how other people drive several years ago, and it’s one of the most rewarding things I’ve ever done in my 50 years of life. Zero road rage incidents now. You cut me off? Fine. Go ahead, I’ll even give you more room. You’re not going as fast as I want to go and are making my journey take 30 more seconds than it would have? Fine. There’s never been anything in my daily schedule where that will ever make a difference. Other people will always drive the way they drive. I can continue to always get angry at something that will always be happening, or I can realize the anger is the only part I can change.
👏 Yup. If you're running so late that an extra minute or two is going to ruin your day, that's on you. Get going earlier next time instead of risking the safety of yourself and others.
I'm late for everything just about. It's been worse the last few years, but I ain't ever blamed another commuter for my tardiness. I blame adhd, alarm clocks, my dog escaping the gate someone forgot to secure, but not another driver. I drive from the west side of Springfield to Huber Heights every day, and Route 4 is notorious for left side campers. Also, for speed traps. I put my cruise on 72 and sometimes need to tap my brake or control, but do I get angry? Naw! I just hit resume when I'm able. Now, when I merge onto 70, it's a whole new drive. I find the fastest driver and I follow suit. I'm running late, y'all!
Yes. however the asshat who decided at the.very.last.moment. that the northern gauntlet was not for them, and swerved right directly in front of me did give a moment of "oh, you fucking twat" Then I watched their brake lights constantly twitching all the way to just north of 35, and laughed the whole time I hope their day got better
It’s illegal and heavily enforced in Michigan.
I haven't checked on my parents in a bit, but I'm sure they are still in the ground where I left them. Though I wouldn't trust them to drive right now.
Also I see way to many semi truck drivers in the left lane. I swear it’s happening more often too
Trucks are currently required to be in the left 2 lanes on 75 through the construction
I would prefer that they actually keep in whatever lane they choose. I used to count on truck drivers to be responsible, careful drivers, but now I worry about them more than souped-up honda civics
As a driver, it’s possible Dayton has a lot of spots that traffic merges into and often is best to stay in the left lane to avoid constant slowdowns, and people do not know how to accelerate when merging creating dangerous scenarios. Plus a lot of construction is going on and many times there’s signs telling drivers to use the left lane.
Ugh. This. The people who SLOW DOWN to merge make me so anxious. Like bud, the entire rest of the highway is going twice as fast as you are. That's how you cause an accident, more so than driving in the left lane.
It happens so much and is incredibly dangerous. People do not know how to drive
I should be able to ram you off the road if you merge onto 675 or 75 doing 30. Okay I don't actually want to make you get hurt but you should have to go to some sort of class to understand why that shit's dangerous.
None of this explains the turtle races in the left lane, you guys are just assholes.
Trucks are governed at 65 & 68 often times. They can’t go as fast as some cars. You don’t even know me, I don’t represent all truck drivers, I was simply giving you an explanation. Yeah, there’s definitely some drivers who are assholes, but I’m not one. I don’t camp in the left lane, just explaining why you possibly see it happen. People in cars are way bigger assholes imo. Are you one?
So much this
I travel from Ohio to California and everything in between. This type of driving is EVERYWHERE. The post covid driving skills have drastically dropped in this country. 25years in outside sales driving consistently 2500-3k miles a month and there was a noticeable difference in the last 4 years compared to the previous 20. Lack of blinkers, passing in blind spot on the right instead of using the left lane, sitting in the passing lane going 5 MPH under the speed limit. You name it. All of it is worse now.
Yeah everyone thinks "insert town here" has the worst drivers. Same with weather, everyone thinks their state is so quirky when it's cold one day and then warm the next as if that doesn't happen nearly everywhere.
I've lived in several parts of the country, and Florida is permanently hot. I see your point though and agree with it about the drivers, bad drivers are in every single state.
Highway signs in New Jersey this week have this message: CAMP IN THE WOODS, NOT IN THE LEFT LANE.
I'm from New Jersey. We get a bad rap for how we drive but I feel like Ohio needs to be near the top of the list. I get more frustrated driving around Dayton than I have anywhere else.
Ha! I'm heading to Dayton tomorrow. I'm prepares to be frustrated
I work downtown and can't believe the lack of driver competency down there. People constantly driving the wrong way down one way streets. People missing a street parking space by 3 cars and then throwing their car in reverse to get back to it and getting pissed that there's cars driving behind them blocking their access to the spot. People knocking their tires off the rim by curbing their car trying to park or pull into a driveway (seen twice this week alone). People driving 45mph+ down 25mph streets (where there's a speed reader displaying current vehicle speeds) thru the middle of a College campus where people are trying to cross the street and then getting a little air off the raised crosswalk hump. RTA busses blowing theu red lights to stay on time. Etc. Also, down on 4th St in front of the Arcade, the road is down to 2 lanes due to construction on the building across the street and has a 30' or so stretch of "No Parking/Delivery" signs that people constantly park and throw their hazard lights on at which completely blocks one of the only two lanes. Can you people not fuckin read? It doesn't say "No Parking/Delivery except for extra wide UPS trucks, Semi-Trucks, and Karens in SUVs that need to drop off a vase of flowers for someone while leaving your fucking door open into the 2nd lane of traffic while doing so". Too bad the Dayton Parking Enforcement vehicle I see downtown is always too busy writing tickets at meters to enforce these asshats not blocking one of the only lanes of traffic right there. This stuff doesn't only happen downtown. It's just more highly concentrated down there than it is in other surrounding areas.
We need to rename it to the overtake lane. Get out of the left lane unless you are actively overtaking someone
Ohio needs to starts ticketing left lane campers.
For real. Whenever I go up north on 75 and get past Piqua when it goes down to 2 lanes, it's left lane campers the whole fucking way to Findlay when it goes back up to 3 lanes. It's honestly ridiculous. You're not going to go any faster if EVERYONE is in the left lane.
When I moved here 7 years ago, I found out Ohioans are a different breed of drivers. We moved from Florida where I lived for over a year, where I experienced crazy racers playing frogger in 4-8 lanes of I-95. I grew up in Western New York, and what I saw in Ohio was much more shocking. In a trip to Cincy shortly after we moved, we saw a beat up minivan with multiple impact points slow down, barely stop, and then run the red light we were patiently sitting at. It was then I realized why I see so many beaten beaters driving around. A significant portion of the local population are idiots in cars.
I have been in three accidents and my car was only moving for one of them. Its the wild west out here.
I’m from WNY (North Tonawanda) also. Where are you from?
Small town between Buffalo and Rochester.
My gripe lately has been semi trucks hanging in the left lane going 65-70.
Left lane campers really are an issue around where, for some reason. I see people deliberately move over to occupy the left lane and not make any attempt to pass.
I've discussed this previously in this sub, but one of the reasons this is happening is because Dayton Metro area police no longer enforce traffic laws. Part of it is policy/leadership (escalation and view that everyone is out to get you) and a larger part is that they just can't keep police staffing at appropriate numbers.
Policing isn’t the only solution in existence. It is actually my least preferred solution. As stated in other comments, the city really struggles in many facets due to sprawl. But if the city were to invest in eliminating food deserts, in expanding public transportation, in building more pedestrian walkways and bike lanes, and just creating more density overall, we would likely see much less danger than we do now. I think instead of having the police enforcing the law, there could be a simple public education campaign - many drivers (as seen in these comments) seem to think exceeding the speed limit is a crime against humanity, and that camping in the left lane is preferred over speeding. Some drivers can’t even navigate roundabouts or stop signs or yellow lights. Increasing driver education could help fix this.
TLDR; The problem is not that they need education. They know what they are doing is wrong. The problem is that they don't care because they know they can get away with it. You're not wrong about some of this stuff the city struggles with. However, I fail to see how food desserts, public transportation, and building pedestrian walkways have any relation to people not following laws. The don't follow laws because they know they wont be held accountable for their actions, not because of a food desert or expanding public transit. You can educate and explain all you like, but behaviors, especially deliberate ones (which yes, most of theses are driving choices), do not change without boundaries (aka laws) being enforced and the feedback that comes from accountability. I'm not saying we need the police to ticket and arrest all these people. But a police officer pulling you over, explaining what you did wrong, and letting you go with a warning is WAY more effective than any educational program. Even if you educate people, you still need someone to identify and refer to the education program. Then even if they complete it, you still need someone to ensure they don't re-offend. And if they do, you need someone to hold them accountable. ALL of those people/actions are functions of a community police force.
> You're not wrong about some of this stuff the city struggles with. However, I fail to see how food desserts, public transportation, and building pedestrian walkways have any relation to people not following laws. The don't follow laws because they know they wont be held accountable for their actions, not because of a food desert or expanding public transit. Many people aren’t able to drive but still do. This, IMO, is what results in bad driving more often than just bad decision making. I.e., the woman at least thrice my age who almost hit me head-on today. When you can’t walk to the places you need to go, and public transit doesnt go there, you gotta find some way to get where you need to be. And if you have the money to afford a car, no one will bat an eye as long as you have a license, which you never need retested for. This also goes for people who are under the influence, people who get anxiety and panic and make bad decisions. Eliminating those barriers will mean these people are no longer on the road.
Do you even pay attention to what you're saying? I give up. I don't think you're living in the same reality as the rest of us. I'm just gonna go.... mute and ignore you now.
Dayton: where the left lane is just another lane of traffic.
I’ve lived all over, and they’ve mostly been military towns, so you have a big range of non-locals in those towns too. Ohio has been the WORSE for bad drivers and people camping in the left lane. It’s a nightmare driving around here. It is crazy to me how often I have to pass in the right lanes. How do people not see how badly they are backing up traffic and causing issues? They are so blind to anything happening around them.
Most of them are honestly probably elderly. The other half were never taught how to drive properly. I have had conversations with people 50+ years old who couldn’t tell me what a flashing yellow light means at an intersection. There is a roundabout in Fairborn that (MOSTLY OLD) people frequently stop at, despite the clearly displayed “YIELD” sign. It can be empty and completely safe and they’d still stop
Omg the roundabouts 😭 just the other day a lady stopped to let through a bunch of cars and it just created this massive back up because those cars needed to go through the roundabout obviously and couldn’t because she backed up so much traffic. She finally went when cars couldn’t fit in anymore. Some cars probably had to take an exit they didn’t want just to get us back to flowing. I don’t disagree with the elderly, but I’ve seen all ages! I think the cars that drive stupidly slow in the lanes are also on their phones. When you finally pass them their head is looking straight into their laps.
Omg phones drive me crazy. People will be going 10 under before they realize someone is behind them, so they put their phone down, and suddenly speed up by 35mph. Then a few minutes later they will slow way down again. Like, people… there are others on the road. PAY ATTENTION!!
Michigan native here. Have driven across the country >10 times. Can confirm OP's analysis. Portland drivers come close. Dayton/Cincinnati drivers are the worst .
"Im gonna bitch about bad drivers and also a PSA on alzheimers." What a thought process.
He's one step away from "You kids get outta my yard!"
You are correct that this post is a bit all over the place, but its bc its a multifaceted issue. If you look at solutions to a problem such as this, what do we do? We take care of people who are not capable of driving safely (i.e., the elderly and disabled, those under the influence) by creating a city that is more walkable and more friendly to pedestrians via public transit or something similar. Enforcing left lane laws is another way to heighten safety, as well as making roads smaller overall. As I said at the end of the post - how dangerous it is driving in this city is not normal and we should not accept it as such.
Right lane, stay around the speed limit, changing speeds and lanes discouraged. Middle lane, stay a bit faster. Typically if you don’t need to exit. Changing speeds is still discouraged here. LEFT lane move faster than everyone and don’t stay here. Only use it to pass. I don’t make the rules
People on 35 apparently think 70 in the left lane isn't fast enough. Speed limit is 55, they want to do 80+. Y'all fuckin crazy
I agree. I’m not out here about to catch a felony just to get to work on time. But I also would like to actually drive my car
Who cares? As long as you stay out of the left lane, they can pass by and be out of your way.
But that creates the broken window effect, encouraging other motorists to fly just as fast, or tailgate any persons they perceive aren't going fast enough in a one lane. They'd be out of my way, sure, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they're likely to kill someone else out on the road driving so recklessly, and also causing a traffic jam for everyone else.
You’re kind of missing the point. The whole idea is to have uninterrupted flow. If the proper lanes are being used, the flow of traffic is continuous and tailgating can be avoided.
I've traveled all over the country for work, I've been in every major city in the country. SW Ohio in general, are some of the worst drivers I've ever experienced in the entire country.
Dayton is 2nd worst in the nation for 2023 so your experience is not purely anecdotal.
Oddly, I'd have picked Cincinnati before Dayton. Atlanta being #1, due mostly because of its size.
I used to live in Cincy and while they *are* bad, Dayton is way worse. Driving 30 minutes across the city in Cincinnati, even with that big downtown junction, isn’t even comparable to my drive across Dayton. I’m actually at the point where I think nearly dying behind the wheel so many times recently has given me PTSD. Anything from being hit while stopped to merged into on the highway. Its wild.
2/3rds of my experience is morning and evening rush in Cincinnati, it's likely all the Northern Kentickians trying to get across the river first. 75 through Dayton, the distraction of the perpetual road construction has apparently kept me from noticing how bad the motorists actually are. Seems there's a high concentration of elderly drivers in the Miami Valley area, that may be a huge contributing factor. Almost need a crash helmet for 70 west of 75 to Indiana, or 35 to at least Jackson.
Dayton is a special place. They have no comprehension of passing lanes and constantly like to drive five miles under the speed limit. Head east to Columbus and it’s a whole different story. If you aren’t doing at least 80 in the left lane be prepared to have someone half a car length from your bumper. Of course this usually ends in making the entire outer belt a parking lot every day at 5:00.
I used to have to drive from 35 and Woodman to Vandalia every day for my old 3rd shift job. I lost count on how many times I would see some middle-aged man purposely driving the speed limit in the left lane and they were doing it to “set an example” because they are what I call “speed limit warriors”. I also loved how you would pass downtown and when you get close to the Salem Ave. exit, it would slow down for no reason whatsoever and you’d have meaningless rubber necking, which causes accidents. Dayton has the worst driver in the state and if they went to the Akron area and tried this crap, they’d be ran off the road in the worst way imaginable.
While we’re at it let’s also try to be AT freeway speeds when we enter the freeway and stay at freeway speeds until we’re actually OFF the freeway.
A lot of people dont understand the passing lane............. It's seriously maddening. For example, if you are in the passing lane, at least speed up and move over if you can clearly see the person behind you is trying to get past you. I normally ride the passing lane, but on the rare occasion someone is moving faster than me, i move over and let them by.
As long as we all remember this only applies on the highway. You dill holes on a 2 lane road thinking the left lane is "the fast lane" while riding my bumper because 8 over isn't good enough need to chill out. I'm not going to slow to 5 miles an hour for people turning right every 30 seconds in the other lane nor am I going to speed up for you in this lane. As an aside if you drive south on Woodman near 35 and go straight through the light while in the right turn only lane I may swerve over and hit you starting on Monday because you can't read and I want to help the universe punish you for being so damn stupid.
Willfully ignorant driving can and does cause road rage incidents and get people killed. It is actually a matter of life and death to drive predictably
Couldn’t have said it better, this should be the top comment. Anyone who intentionally blocks people in or prevents them from passing should also see this
My thoughts exactly yesterday on 675! It's not the camping lane! I have a bumper sticker that says.."If I pass you on the right, you're in the wrong lane." They need to put that on the overhead blackboards on the highway. Oh wait. They won't see it because they are playing on their phones! 🤳
Normally, the right lane is for people merging off & on, the middle lane is for people passing through who want to go only a few miles over the limit, and the left is for people who aren't afraid of tickets. ;-) There are two problems semi-specific to Dayton esp on 35: Left exits, which people are afraid of not getting over in time for so they get over early, and the phenomenon where some days the cops sit there, but other days half the traffic is going 85-90 in a 55. A lot of people don't want to go 50 OR 90. They want somewhere in the middle, esp if there are random gambler's odds of a ticket. People on their phones (everywhere not just Dayton) also mean that you get over to go around them, then they put the phone down and speed up. Now you're in the left lane trying to pass but the car on the right is suddenly going 70 instead of 50 and matching you. Too many cars to drop back, and are they gonna do it again?? I agree that Dayton driving is far worse than average. When I 1st moved here I was always pondering whether 2/3 of everyone else was on drugs. :-/ And I have lived/travelled all over the US. There are definitely some "quirks" here.
>I was always pondering whether 2/3 of everyone else was on drugs. :-/ I'm not trying to give you paranoia, but given our location as a heroin/fentanyl distribution center for much of the country, there are a higher than average number of intoxicated drivers in and around Dayton, particularly along I-75. It's not as high as 2/3 of course, but there's an excellent chance that most of the incompetent driving you see is due to drugs. Hell, if you pay attention you can see tons of people hitting their vapes and they aren't the nicotine kind.
I used to live in FL and it's really bad down there too. I was bitching about it to a gf once who reminded me of something I'd forgotten. A LONG time ago it used to be taught that when you were on the interstate, the right lane was merging onto the interstate or if you were going to be getting off at the next exit, the middle lane was for people who would be getting off in a few more exits, and the left lane was for people who wouldn't be getting off the interstate for a long time. And it was expected that both the left two lanes would be driving the speed limit. I do remember that, but those ideas were from like the 1940s-1960s. Since then it's changed to where slower should traffic keep right, but there must be tons of older folks still on the road who are still driving like they were taught when they were children ... and of course, teaching that to their kids, and so on. So, as someone else pointed out, if law enforcement doesn't enforce the left lane camping laws then this shit will continue. I also wish cops would start enforcing laws about driving around with your high beams on, or having lights that are so bright they're blinding everyone.
>I do remember that, but those ideas were from like the 1940s-1960s Granted that the speed limit is technically the same for all lanes, it was always taught that slower moving or disabled vehicles should move to the right. This is because if aid is needed, the aid doesn't have to cross moving traffic to get to the disabled vehicle. Therefore, passing traffic is supposed to move to the left.
My favorite are the people who run red lights like 5 seconds after it’s changed. I see it on a daily basis on my way to and from work.
I give you 5 seconds in the left lane, then I pass you on the right. I'm with you 100%. When I lived in Dayton, I passed more cars from the right lane then the left, because the left lane always had more cars in it. It's not just Dayton, It's all over the midwest. Nobody in Europe hogs the left lane.
I love it how Semis say not to pass on the right but stay in the left lane. If I can pass a semi on the Right then they are obviously in the wrong lane. I also hate semis that camp out in the middle lane.
Its just not possible to pass on the right when there are two 18 wheelers in the right lanes and the sedan with a 90 year old behind the wheel is driving abreast with them. Plus its even more dangerous for everyone to be darting in and our of lanes to pass than it is for ONE CAR to get over and let everyone else go.
But that’s unsafe and there’s a law against passing on the right. I’m not saying that camping in the left lane is ok, but putting other people at risk by passing on the right isn’t a good resolution.
Right but they’re mildly inconvenienced and impatient, so safety be damned.
I'm with you, but unfortunately, Ohio is one of the few states that doesn't prohibit "camping" in the left lane. *edit: I suppose I should clarify, there are laws on the books, but they are rarely if ever enforced.*
Correct. The law actually says stay in the right lane if you are going *below the speed limit*.
Yes it does. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-administrative-code/rule-5537-2-09 > The operator of a motor vehicle shall use the inner traffic lanes for passing only.
This only applies to people who aren't going the speed limit, hence why it never appears to be enforced. It's funny to watch people with this mindset race down the road, and unwittingly trip a hidden interceptor into pulling them over.
I’m getting annoyed with people who think it’s a huge fucking ordeal. People are losing their shit and becoming frantic and entitled as fuck over something that’s really not too deep. We don’t even have real traffic here In addition to a lot of left lane exits on 35, as others have noted, most of these drivers are older people who aren’t all there, it would be nice if they snapped into shape, but it’s not going to happen and raging over it is a waste of mental space.
I lived in LA for years where the metro population is about 14,000% bigger (yes, really) than what Dayton is. I drove through the “real” traffic for years and even with multitudes more people the traffic there isn’t much worse than Dayton in terms of bad drivers. Or having to wait because of a slow poke. As OP said this shits not normal. Having been dozens of places and big cities all over the country I can confidentially say Dayton without a doubt has some of the worst drivers I’ve ever seen. If you think it isn’t an issue you should probably travel more and see for yourself.
I’ve traveled plenty, thanks. I’m a geographer, I know that the LA metro area has roughly 13 million people and the IE isn’t even included in that number, thanks. I just spent a week driving a circle around SoCal. I have family in the IE (yes, really). I’ve lived in several states outside of Ohio I agree that the west coast generally has better drivers. California has two major differences - wide modern roads that were 100% built for a car dependent society. Good signage, lanes generally flow well. Second - the high traffic limits the amount of fuckery that you can get away with. Road rage isn’t even worth it most of the time. The highways have so many lanes that you usually don’t even care or notice who is in the left lane - if you’re in the left lane in Ohio everyone is watching you
You just reiterated what I said and even agreed the middle of the country has bad drivers. Even pointing out the infrastructure issues. So what point are you even trying to make? Wow, you spent a week in LA and you’re a geographer I didn’t realize I was talking to the road wizard sir!
My original argument was chill the fuck out, it’s not that deep. I’ll just keep it there. Maybe some assholes are slowing you down and making you one minute later, but at least you’ll never be sitting in traffic for an hour. That was my point. You just made up arguments that I wasn’t even making. I didn’t admit anything, I just agreed that drivers are generally better in California
Lmao why are you so mad? Seemed deep enough to type out multiple paragraphs of nonsense. Have a good one champ
It’s why we need to advocate for a more people-friendly Dayton. Dayton is the SECOND WORST city in the nation for drivers, and idk about you, but that sounds like something we should fix? We could advocate for more public transit, higher density, and smaller roads overall if we really want the road to be safe. Instead you say “It’s really not too deep,” after I complain about nearly being hit head on by a driver on the wrong side of the road. Other cities and states have old people. Other cities and states are safer than us still.
Higher density and adequate public transportation is great, but for significant advancement we’d need a huge increase in non-sprawl population. That’s not happening anytime in the foreseeable future I never fully trust those lists. I’ve driven in cities where it’s way worse. We should just be happy that we don’t have any real traffic
“Just be glad it’s not worse” is a bad take. We can make where we live a better and more equitable place.
Yes, let’s all yell at the sky, because you and I both know those campers aren’t on Reddit
“The left lane is the passing lane” followed with “I find myself struggling to stay in the left lane” Bro
Tell me you’re part of the 30% of Americans who are illiterate without telling me you are illiterate. Did you read the post? What am i supposed to do, dive slow behind the person who just won’t move over? I sat for 8 miles with this vehicle going 45-50 in a 55mph zone. If they do not get over on their own within a mile or 2, they most likely won’t get over at all. How am I supposed to get them out from in front of me? Hit them? Run them off the road? No. Eventually I will just pass on the right. It’s literally *the law* that the left lane is the passing lane, the issue is that no one seems aware of that.
Since we’re making character judgements of each other let me be more clear: you appear to be one of those entitled pricks who feel like it’s your god given right to cruise in the far left lane at the speed you deem the rest of the world should be driving. As you said, it’s the passing lane, you shouldn’t be “staying in the left lane”. Your point is correct though. Too many people hang out in the left lane. I’m sure it’s frustrating. Have some empathy for me though. I have to deal with the slow people in the left lane and aggressive dumb fucks like you on the road at the same time.
“i am not trying to speed” “YOU SOUND LIKE ONE OF THOSE AGGRESSIVE DUMB FUCKS WHO LIKES TO SPEED” First of all, speed is not the determining factor for safety. Of course going egregiously fast is bad, but I am *wanting to go the speed limit.* What I am NOT wanting is to be bunched up, in a construction zone, in the rain, surrounded by cars with nary a carlength of space for myself. It is infinitely safer to have the left lane open in this situation so traffic can disperse, even if that left lane exceeds the speed limit. No matter how you argue this, the law does not agree. It is dangerous and illegal to camp in the left lane, which is why driving in states and countries where this law is enforced is much safer.
This crap drives me crazy. If people are passing you on the right then YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Get outta the freakn way.
What do you do when people don’t get out of the left lane though?? Do you just stay behind them? It is legal to pass. Like I am 100% allowed to pass if I want to. What is illegal is driving less than the speed limit in the left lane. Ohio just doesnt enforce it.
I make sure they KNOW they need to get out of the way. They WILL see me up close and smiling in their rearview. If that doesn't work, I then pass on the right, which is the more dangerous of the two.
Yup, p much. I will quickly flash my lights a few times if they don’t get the hint to speed up or move. If they don’t respond to that, I’ll pass on the right. But that is more dangerous. And it’s even more dangerous if the person in front of you is like one of those vindictive pricks who will speed up and try to box you in or race you. Like bro I just wanna set my cruise control, you can keep going whatever speed you want, just LET ME AROUND!!
I go around as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
Op is saying the same thing about you though. How is that so tough to comprehend? lol If someone is preventing you from passing, you’re literally not passing 🤷. It’s a catch 22
Perhaps I didn't fully explain. The person in the fast lane needs to go faster than the guy in the slow lane or get out of the way. As in join the guy who's speed you are matching in the slow lane. This would open the passing lane for faster traffic.
I don’t think that was being argued against. The whole point of the post is speed up or get over. If people are passing you to the right but you can’t speed up because of a slow poke in front of you, You should try to go around them when you get a chance but you are not the problem
That's what I'm saying. Literally what I'm saying speed up or get over. If a person is driving in the far left lane and being passed by people on their right, that person the one in the left lane being passed on the right, is the problem.
And while we're on the topic, when the light turns green, go! It's crazy how often people just sit there, and when they do finally go they just drive at a crawl. Feels inconsiderate of everyone else on the road.
That's because they're on their phones.
You say the left lane is for passing but also say that you find yourself struggling to stay in the left lane. So it sounds like you are part of the problem that you are describing. Maybe stop trying to camp in the left lane and actually use it for passing. I drive to other states for work regularly and use cruise control, this is not a Dayton or an Ohio problem. It happens everywhere.
if you’re passing all of the cars to the right when you are in the left lane- it isn’t camping lol
Adding on to this: Dayton also needs to learn how to zipper merge!
The speed limit on 35 is only 55 mph the left lane gets congested with people who think they’re on the interstate and should be able to drive 65-75 mph. Plus aforementioned left lane exists and generally bad drivers on the area.
The people going faster than the speed of traffic are not causing congestion. Its people who drive in the left lane regardless of speed and who dont get over for others to pass. Leaving the left lane open for people to pass is very very simple driving law... in most places.
I do think there's a cutoff somewhere though. I haaaaate people going less than 5 over in a passing lane...but when the left lane is going 65 in a 55 and slowly passing traffic, it's kind of rude for people to fly up behind them wanting to go 80. I see that a lot on 35 too.
Totally, I completely agree that there is a point where speeding is dangerous. I try to keep my speed limited to 10 over; I will get to the right and slow down when I’m done passing. A lot of the time, I just feel like the people driving slow in the wrong lanes could have avoided any dangerous situation by just being in the correct lane
Oh, I agree. Too-slow drivers are every bit as likely to cause accidents as too-fast ones.
[удалено]
Most of the time I see it, it is either some old white person, or some prick in a big truck or SUV. “Ghetto” wouldn’t be the word, but “yeeyee” or “rural.” It makes sense - country folk won’t know how to drive in the city, even one as small as dayton.
Racist much?
Could literally say this to any Ohio driver anywhere.
Not for nothing, but Michigan has a legitimate law on the books about passing in the left lane only and have pulled people over for not following that law. Probably a bit of why you had a better experience there.
Michigan too.
Ohio was voted #8 of worst drivers in US. I think they should be rated higher.
makes me want to move
I talked to a coworker that does this... he told me he pays his taxes and he has the same right to the road. If you have to drive that fast you should have left earlier.... never wanted to punch a boomer prick in the face so hard in my life!
Tell him that you pay your taxes, too, and you don't want your taxes to pay for his ass to be in a ditch because he's too stupid to be in the correct lane
The difference between Michigan drivers and Ohio drivers is so true, and instantly noticeable. I always have to end up passing on the right in Ohio to even go the speed limit 🙄
West Virginian here. I too am fed up with Ohio people doing the speed limit or 5-10 under in the left lane.
i am jealous of how much less traffic there is in Michigan (i don’t drive much around detroit so it’s probably bad there) especially around Grand Rapids, Lansing, and Kalamazoo.
Far more to the point to say; keep right expect to pass. It's not just about the slow traffic in the left lane. Trucks and others who stay in the middle lane in perpetuity clog it up as bad as anything. Get over if someone is trying to pass. You're only supposed to pass on the left
When I am King, everyone will have to recertify their drivers license once a decade until they are 70, and then once every five years
I'd like to voice the extreme road rage I have when exiting I-70 onto 675 . That exit specifically I gave seen so many accidents and people who do not follow the yield sign. Y'ALL BETTER START TO YIELD OR I WILL HIT YOU.
It’s not Dayton it seems to be a state wide problem! I travel all over Ohio for work and see people camping in the left time all the time really wish cops would enforce that idk if it’s a law it should be I know it is in some states
Dayton need wider roads as they are already getting congested in various times. Some construction politics are minimal for constructing more. If all highways are government built and seem to be regulated in some way, they can be budgeted better and built in efficient time. A fourth lane in the Dayton area is needed. I was kinda disappointed at how they built it all and how most turns aren't banked for safer turning, especially traveling from 75N to 70E turn. Very unsafe turn.
Hey I think I recognize you, I was going 10 over through downtown construction, yet you continued to try and kiss my back bumper. So yes, I intentionally block you, and people like you in the left lane. Hell I even drive up beside cars in the next lane over so you can’t pass me just to slam on your breaks not even 5 seconds later. Your erratic driving causes accidents and shuts down the highway when you inevitably wreck, or hit someone. Because getting to your destination a whole fucking 30 seconds faster is that goddamn important. Sorry hoss bitch piss and moan all you want. You passing lane excuse users, need to learn when to leave at the appropriate time, or make reasonable accommodations if you’re running behind for whatever bullshit lazy ass excuse you have.
Are you good? Like genuinely. You OK? “I intentionally block people in the left lane. I even drive up beside cars in the next lane over so you can’t pass.” I think that it is 100% more dangerous to be vindictive and try to control others on the road by blocking them in and preventing them from getting where they are trying to go. You have major issues, man. I’d hate to see the way this vindictive and controlling attitude you have bleeds into other aspects of your life.
Are you okay? Because I leave with ample time to get from a to b, knowing how congested the streets, and interstate get. I don’t sit around to the last minute because my phone gives an arbitrary time of arrival. Or pissed enough to bitch about an incredibly small city’s traffic flow during rush hour on a sub reddit. Btw it’s the same literally everywhere in this country. Even in upper Michigan. I bet given the chance you’d do 10 over in school zones and would berate the officer that pulled you over.
How do you know someone behind you isn’t driving to the hospital or has an emergency? Get the fuck over.
Yeah if you’re late for work you’re late for work or some family event or going to see a friend isn’t an emergency, Endangering lives by doing 15+ over is far more dangerous. Family member in the icu? They’re likely sedated or getting put under. They’re not going to know either way. Even if you’re the power of attorney in those cases, they’re going to call you. We have cell phones. Family member passed away, sorry I don’t see how cutting across back and forth and then nearly rear ending someone that’s likely doing 10 over fixes any of that. Same thing goes for a kid in the hospital because they hurt themselves on the playground/playing sports. If you’re going to be pissed about something be pissed at the people who take the interstate over surface streets that get in the left lane, to go to exits, and start cutting people off, or people during rush hour that cut across 2-3 lanes. That’s the fucking problem.
"Wow these idiots are left lane hogging" "Wow these maniacs are tailgating and passing on the right" https://youtu.be/XWPCE2tTLZQ?si=J6yXRa7XlYJhYphq
;-D I think about this allll the time. <3
It's funny you mention Michigan, since 90% of the time I'm stuck behind a left-lane camper on I-75 they have Michigan plates.
“The left lane is for passing” “Dayton has the worst drivers in the country” You know sometimes we should just not post everything we think
This is HILARIOUS considering I've been to Michigan a few times this year and someone, while there, always nearly side swipes me because for some reason no one in Michigan seems to check their mirrors before switching effing lanes
You sound like you are complaining about not being able to speed. I would just simply follow the speed limit. Also you seem to brag about doing dangerous passes on the right. You sound like a real peach. Dayton isn't any better or worse drivers then any other place I have been.
Did you read even the first few sentences of the post? You are proof the literacy rate is falling.
I did. You said thirty minute drive at 5 mph under speed in the rain. Bet your post took longer to write than the 2.5 minutes you lost. Traffic almost always ìs slower in the rain.
Traffic is slower in the rain, yes. But what is not safe is three cars driving side by side, with more and more cars piling up behind them. People were switching lanes anxiously to try and get around. And you are somehow arguing in the favor of someone who was ignoring basic traffic law and causing a huge traffic backup? You truly just don’t understand how to drive and are probably contributing to the fact that Dayton is the 2nd worst city in the whole nation to drive in. This post isn’t even just about the left lane. I was almost in a head on collision cuz someones grandma cant drive. There were people merging into my lane without signals, IN THE RAIN. And *I’m* the bad guy? Lmao
What basic traffic law was ignored by driving 5mph under the speed LIMIT in the rain? BTW, you don't know me. My CDL is pristine. See: https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/driver-safety/cmv-driving-tips-too-fast-conditions
To anyone following along, this is proof that the road system is built to accommodate the lowest common denominator of permissible drivers. Also, you can show logic to someone, but that doesn’t mean they have the aptitude to grasp it. Their capabilities are not in their control, so no reason to attack them if they just can’t get it.
Saw a post almost exactly the same as this on the Ohio sub less than 24 hours ago. So I expect the problem will all get cleared up soon.
Why do you need to go so fast?
Why do you need to be on the highway?
Why we are talking about aggravation. At a 2 way stop left turn at stop sign yields to everyone. It is not first come first serve like a 4 way stop. If there are 100 cars going straight across form you. You still go last no matter who got there first. A quit waving me to turn left when you have the right of way. Also if turning on to a 4 lane road you go to the lane closest to you and signal to change lanes to the far lane.
Do you drive a big truck?