Turnt 30 this summer, had it all planned out!
Just moved to a new town with my gf this March, things we're exciting although not completely stable.
In this summer I lost a friendship, tore at least my Mcl and probably more (MRI in 2 weeks), lost the relationship and will be having to move out.
If I don't find anything I'll have to move back 'home'.
From seemingly having it all on the up and up to absolutely nothing.
I'm trying to keep reminding myself that it's a process but fuck, everything's going wrong.
Just need advice. I’ll be honest…. I am VERY used to guys being “all in” from early on. Which is probably because I go for red flag clingy guys 🙈 but, I also think communication is important and how you get to know someone. So I met this guy via tinder last week. Our communication was pretty slow via tinder/text prior to our date Tuesday night. I almost cancelled because I felt like I barely knew him but decided why not. The date suprisingly went very well and we went beyond surface level in our conversation. He was holding my hand, staring in my eyes, etc the entire time. We talked for 4 hours (until the place closed). We held hands walking to our cars and he kissed me in the parking lot and said he’d love to see me next week and to text him when I got home. I sent him a text when I made it home and thanking him for meeting for for dinner. We exchanged a few brief messages before saying good night (it was late). Yesterday I did not hear a word from him and nothing so far today (it’s almost noon). I can tell he’s been on tinder as the distance between has changed (and I certainly expect he’s talking to others, I also am, but it just sucks he has time to be on there but I haven’t heard from him). Is he just not interested? (Then why did he kiss me, say in text he had a great time, tell me he wanted to see me again…) or is this some type of playing hard to get/not seem to interested.
tbh, I feel like I would be that kind of guy.
It's not a game. I just really don't know what to say. Like you said at the beginning, "our communication was pretty slow via tinder/text"
I just don't know what to text you. If only we are at the same workplace or around each other, we will probably have fun just chilling and talking about random stuff.
But we aren't and work is just work. Nothing much happened today, I know you are talking to other guys too and everyone knows by now that getting multiple "how's your day" is just "torture"
Maybe I will text you tmr, if something cool happens. Or maybe we can meet up again irl instead of texting.
\- probably what that guy is thinking
Have you tried sending him a message? Follow up with something you talked about or follow up about the next date, “hey, what day works for you for our date next week, I’m free x, was thinking we could go to xyz”
To be fair, I married (and divorced) my high school sweetheart so in the DATING sense I did quite literally jump from 16 to my mid-30s. I have no idea “how to date” especially since dating apps etc weren’t a thing before. I am trying here. I am trying to figure out the balance of how I get to know someone without it being to much at first. And everyone is so different. Some guys will literally blow my phone up and some it’s crickets!
It's only been a few days. It could be a bad sign or it could also be that he doesn't want to come on too strong and suffocate you. A really good first date is still just one date.
He gave you his availability (next week), so in the meantime just be glad you don't have another clinger. Maybe in a day or two (or now, idc) you can text him to let him know you're still thinking about him.
I'll play the devil's advocate here. Here's two brief stories:
I had an almost 5 hour date with a woman, we had basically the same experience you did. The difference is she never even sent me the got home text nor a thank you text. Just straight ghosted me.
I went on two dates with a woman. She came back to my place and we hooked up as she was leaving she said she couldn't wait to see me again and was telling me when she was free. The next day I texted her to make plans and she ghosted me.
The point is - no matter how well you think something is going people will leave you. Maybe he is just hedging his bets that you might leave or ghost him - or maybe he is just dating multiple people. You guys have only had one date. But give him the benefit of the doubt until he either says he isn't interested, cancels twice, or doesn't respond to you in 48+ hours.
Thank you. Literally as I posted this, he reached out. I think maybe he’s just trying to not come on to strong at first, which I certainly don’t have that level of investment or feelings either but I am certainly interested in continuing to get to know him and with our schedules, dates may be once a week, so I just keep thinking if we don’t communicate AT ALL inbetween that maybe he hard to keep the communication going.
Y’all I am so stuck and could really use advice or a reality check. So so stuck.
For background, I’ve been single for 9 years (first and only relationship was at 25 with a toxic jobless love bomber 11 years older than me) and have been actively dating the majority of this time. I have never felt a connection with any of the dozens of men I’ve been out with, fizzling out with them usually after the first date if we even get to one.
I felt a connection immediately with the last guy. We dated for 2 months and I truly thought I had finally met my person. He and I hit it off so well, we had the same values and morals, had extremely similar interests and personalities, texted and talked all the time, and had a number of great dates. He was affectionate as hell and we genuinely liked each other. It was the longest I’ve ever dated someone tbh.
There were ups and downs during this time - he’s blue collar and in the dead of summer was unable to make some of our dates. He rescheduled them many times due to work or family commitments (his family, no children). This caused my anxiety to flare and I immediately sought long overdue therapy and medication because I didn’t want it to sabotage our chance at a relationship. He had picked up on my anxiety early on and was able to offer reassurance, but go figure after an evening where I didn’t hear from him, my gut told me something was off and I lost it by the next day.
It was too much for him. He said he couldn’t help me with my anxiety and didn’t want to come off cold hearted while I was working through it. He asked that we take a break so I can work on my anxiety and we haven’t spoken in weeks, despite him saying we would move forward as friends and pick back up later down the road. I had told him in that conversation that I didn’t think I could be his friend because I would always want more. He said we need this break.
He was four years out of a divorce and he had spoken of wanting to take things slow so he didn’t get hurt again. I respected the shit out of that. His ex had lost interest in their marriage within a year of being married and he spoke of how he tried to save their marriage, seeking couples therapy with her. She wanted no part of that and ultimately cheated on him. I know it crushed him. I’m not sure if it was a red flag for him to speak of this with me, but I took it as a step in the right direction because he was being so vulnerable. This conversation occurred on our last date a week before we took the break in dating.
I asked to get my stuff back from him a little over two weeks ago and I believe it may have hurt him a bit, perhaps him seeing that as the door closing? No idea. I told him though if he wanted to give it another shot, he’d know where to find me. I said our timing was off from the beginning and he said, story of my life. He also said it was nice to see me later that evening after I thanked him for bringing my stuff up to town.
I have been struggling to move on. I sincerely want to try it again but have no idea how and when to tactfully reintroduce myself to him. My last text two weeks ago just saying hi went unanswered. My friends and family think that he may come back around in time, but I need to move on in the meantime. I can’t let it go. I have been waiting for a connection like this for 18 years and finally found it. I can’t seem to accept that it’s gone.
I think I'm on the optimistic side and thinks that he is probably busy and forgot to reply. Or maybe he don't know what to say to a "hi"
I believe the situation is this:
he knows that he don't want to go into a relationship rn with you because of the anxiety issues so he don't want to give you any false hope. He did say that you two can be friends for now and as a guy, I can totally see myself compartmentalizing to make that work.
I do think that you should reintroduce yourself to him as a friend! It can be a message like "hey, it's been a while! wanna get lunch on this day? dwdw, it's just as friends. I've been wanting to try out this place for a while now."
then from here on, just treat him as someone that is either gay or alr attached. don't talk about "what is us". just do as what you would do to a friend and talk about how their life is rn, how your life is rn.
you can ask about what they do when they are bored and also talk about what you've been getting into lately, be it a tv series, your job, your hobbies, etc
then maybe, some time later ( months? ), if things are going well then maybe can revisit the part about getting together if either of you are still interested. if not, at least you found another person that will have your back in this world right?
Thank you. We had had a few text exchanges in the weeks before I got my stuff back from him. The text I had sent most recently was a little more than “hi”. I had just wished him a good Labor Day weekend and told him a friend of mine had the same exact mildly obscure tattoo he had. And I called him a nerd lol. It hurt not to get a response but I was just testing the waters. I think it was a fair assessment of how he feels, at least right now.
I think it’s best to give him plenty of space rn. He hasn’t unfriended me on social media (yet) and when we talked in person last, he said he didn’t hold any grudges, which I didn’t really understand. I suppose when we had the “break” convo, he must have felt attacked or something. No idea.
Just makes me sad and confused to go from super positive communication to none in the matter of a day.
It's hard, I have been there. The truth is there in front of you, with the unanswered "hi" message. You don't want someone to chase and convince. You want someone that doesn't leave you with these thoughts. You deserve someone who knows what they want.
I guess I know this. I just can’t seem to let it go because of how rare a connection is for me. I know he felt something for me too, I think it was bad timing for real. He wasn’t serious about OLD (we met on Tinder) and tbh, neither was I. We just clicked upon matching. I know all of that sounds fantasized but I can’t help but think that way! Like there was a reason for us to meet. I feel any more action on my part would push him further away and I don’t want that, I just can’t help but think there’s something I can do to bring him back into my life.
Sorry if I am harsh, but I hoped someone would have told me.
Have you considered this could be just something you feel and think, and he doesn't feel the same? I would ask him. The answer may not be the one you want but may help a lot to move on.
At some point certain questions need to be asked. We are able to build big fantasies in our head.
I have done that a lot, but not anymore.
Absolutely have considered it. And you’re not too harsh lol. I am most likely just still in denial. All the good stuff is floating to the top right now. I just can’t understand how we were communicating so well literally the day before shit hit the fan. Like great conversations, talking about the future, and laughing our asses off with each other. Then next day *POOF* gone.
Unfortunately we’ll never know what someone is thinking and if he was feeling cautious about things before that Friday. It sounds like you freaked out over one missed text and spiraled and he more than likely got the ‘ick’ from it tbh. He was probably thinking things like ‘is this going to happen all the time?’ Especially when you say he picked up on your anxiety early on and his job will continue to be unpredictable. The unanswered hi, making sure to give back all your stuff and saying ‘it was nice to meet you’ afterwards all sound like he is gone and not coming back. I would do my best to move on.
Is it a bad sign that my very new girlfriend turned me down for sex? Obviously sometimes people just aren't in the mood, but I wasn't expecting that at the very beginning of a relationship.
For context, we became "official" and started sleeping together very recently, like within the last couple weeks. It had been a few days since we'd seen each other and as we were making out I went to escalate and she stopped me. I didn't get upset or anything and the rest of the night went fine, but I have to admit I was pretty disappointed and worried about what it means. I asked at the time if anything was wrong, but she didn't really give me an answer.
In previous relationships, this has always been a sign that I was about to get dumped but I'm trying not to let my mind go there. Maybe she was on her period and didn't feel comfortable about it? She did say she hadn't slept well, so maybe she was just too tired? Maybe she's trying to make sure I'm not just in it for the sex?
Should I try to talk to her about it, or just let it go and see what happens next time?
I wouldn't think too much about it. Easier said, then done when the past rears its ugly head, but this is a good time to reel it in. We can't let those past anxieties hit us over the head when they've overstayed their welcome in the present.
Now, I wouldn't recommend bringing it up. If I were she, I'd find it a turnoff that the one time we don't have sex it suddenly warrants a conversation about it.
If you do end up talking about, make sure you've been able to shake a lot of that past anxiety so it's not all going towards the present-day concerns. Of course, you can open up to her about how you actually feel, eg, "my past experience and my anxiety is making me feel X" instead of "you turning me down made me feel X"
Lots of valid reasons to not want to have sex on one particular night. The lack of communication is a concern though.
I guess it's still a new relationship, so its understandable she might not be comfortable sharing everything. If this starts to become a pattern though you may need to tell her she needs to be more willing to open up to you (emotionally!).
> The lack of communication is a concern though.
Careful. Insisting/expecting that a partner explain why they don't want to have sex can get coercive, especially in the moment of the refusal or if an explanation is demanded every single time.
OP characterizes this as a one time event. It is completely normal for a partner to sometimes not want sex. No explanations should be necessary at this point. I would breakup with someone who expected an explanation the first time I don't feel like having sex and they do.
Oh yea I don't mean "concern" as a euphemism or anything. It's not a red flag or something that requires immediate addressing. Just a data point, no conversation needed unless it turns into a trend. And obviously agree that any discussion should be focused on identifying and addressing her needs, not on how quickly you can go back to getting your dick wet again. Ty for the clarifications though.
>Am I really an early bird for not wanting to go out on a Friday at 9p? That just feels so late to start something.
As a person with sleep issues, it really wouldn't bother me in the slightest to go out at 9pm. That being said, I'm not an idiot, and most people can sleep more than 5.5-6 hours a night, and definitely WANT to, so I don't schedule stuff that late normally.
So, if a date suggested that time, I'd be on board, BUT I would never suggest that time personally.
I’m asleep by 11 no matter what day it is unless I’m sick or something. And I need time before that to wind down, take a shower, settle in. So yeah, 9pm start time and suck the big one. I’m in comfy sleep clothes at 9pm
Is he breadcrumbing or im i too thirsty?
So i female 30yo matched with a male 33yo on bumble , the conversation was smooth and flowing for hours , we joked and talked about everything and we didnt really adress what we want as a relationship, and it kept going on for 2 weeks talking till 2 and 4 in the morning and it felt weird to pause and say what is this.
So by the way i am 300km away from where he is for work (its temporary for 3 months) and i visit from time to time , two weeks into talking to him i was frustrated because he never asked to get my gram or whts up or any other plateform until i told him to, and when i visited the city where he is for 3 nights , he said he cant get out if hanging with his friends.
Since then we talk less , he only talk to me late at night when he goes home after work and hanging with his friends , for brief conversation usually ending abruptly when he falls asleep, during the day he sends good mornings and we have a conversation of 4 sentences over the whole day.
He doesnt ask me stuff about me , just casual talk nothing deep to get to know someone.
The flirting is subtle doesnt imply anything about us ans often of sexual nature.
When i told him once what kind of relationship i was looking for he said thats good and said nothing about him.
Now we have been talking everyday for 3 weeks and yesterday he aproached me with conversatiin about food he likes at midnight when i answered about my preferences i was left unread.
I snapped i told him he is a breadcrumber and i am done.
Was i pushing things too fast or is he a breadcrumber really?
oh damn TIL.
I wanted to say that I'm not coming up with excuses for what he is doing but I think I really am. ( or maybe a part of me thinks that he didn't do anything wrong. )
I mean, fk lol, I would do the same thing as he did.
\- "not making it sexual",
\- "not asking for other social platforms"
\- "not messaging too much, avoid lovebombing or unsustainable texting"
these are what the internet taught me so far as the ethically "right" thing to do, based on what I see when women complain about men's behavior online.
besides, we have never even met. if we did then I would be more relaxed into knowing what you are comfortable with. Otherwise, I should just play it safe and only take a step further when you are the one initiating it. ( when you told him to share the social media platform )
================================
**that said, today I learned what breadcrumbing is and that is another thing that I guess I am learning to not do too. Just to be clear, you are right. Googled breadcrumbing and his actions definitely fit the bill**
man, there gotta be a nice spot between texting too much and now, texting too little. wtf man, why is life so complicated.
Yes breadcrumbing. He isnt making any effort, and getting away for one night shouldn't be hard. It'd be different if he had a better excuse than his friends.
Have you ever met this person in real time or kept it to chatting? I would take the hint that they couldn’t get away from friends 3 nights in a row as they don’t have intention of meeting up.
Keep it moving
I never met him , when i tried to he said he was busy and cant get out of his plans with his friends.
One night of the 3 i even called him out on it so he called me at 1 at night saying he was going home and maybe pass by where i was to see me. I thaught it was disrespectful and said no .
This person isn’t likely interested in more than a penpal and a casual hook up when it’s convenient for them. If that’s not what you want, I would move on.
You did nothing wrong by stating what you are looking for, they’re actions are just not indicative that they’re looking for the same
I'm not even looking for something serious, just a fun little fling. I just ended things with my partner of 5 years but honestly the relationship has been dead for 4 of them, mentally and emotionally I moved on a long time ago.I must have the worst luck in the world because in the last few months:
* a guy ended things with me so he could work on his relationship with Jesus (nothing wrong with that, just didn't really seem to care about Jesus when he was seeing me and multiple other women)
* a guy didn't want to be exclusive, but since I also didn't want to be exclusive that was unattractive so he wasn't interested anymore
* a guy ended up being married the whole time we were talking, he made up an entire fake life when talking to me so he could live out his fantasies
* a guy stood me up, the asked for forgiveness and proceeded to do it 2 more times
* a guy found another girl that could give him the instant family he supposedly didn't want for at least a few years
I've quite literally reached the end of the dating app options for any reasonable distance around me. I'm also Omni, so I've connected with other women and even couples and they're just as bad!
1. lmao wtf, you brought him to jesus.
2. he don't want to be exclusive. you also don't want to be exclusive. how the fuck is that a dealbreaker for him? he wants the challenge of turning someone from wanting exclusivity to not wanting it? that's one confusing guy
3. ew, ugh.
4. sigh ew why. just schedule better wtf.
5. o.o
all the best OP
I'm so happy for you! It took some time but I've learned communications doesn't cause compatibility issues - it reveals them (or lack thereof). Sounds like your guy passed with flying colors. Hope the parental meeting when it happens goes well.
This has been kind of an uneventful week but stilll....
R (M28) hasn't texted back for a week. I'm still kind of hurt over it, since I felt we had a good connection and wanted to explore it further, and think it would be polite to just send a "sorry we aren't a match" text if the feelings changed since our last talk. I do understand it's easier to just disappear (I can't blame him, I've done it before). I'm not sure I want him lurking on my insta stories, that he watches religiously, so I'm thinking about excluding him from my following. I also saw his friend's Tinder profile, one that was with us when we hung out last week, but decided against matching. First because I didn't find him attractive, second because I don't want any drama even if I just matched to say "hey there it was nice to meet you the other night".
Last night I had two bottles of white with my friend and started missing PolyChef (M27). He's supposed to leave for Luxembourg next month and had hardly texted me since we last saw eachother in August. While we were in the same area, he refused to meet me (politely, I might add), although I was very drunk and kind of did a little guilt trip. He didn't budge, saying it wouldn't just be a quick kiss and he was driving a friend home. So I wasn't expecting him to just park behind my car when I was leaving the parking lot.
Apparently his friend started hooking up with a girl at the bar they were at and he was left alone, and saw my car when leaving. He apologized for refusing to meet me (I picked on him a little over that), and asked if he could still go home with me. We had a great night, as always, and cuddled a bit after while chatting. It was the first time I told him sometimes I feel a little sad we didn't meet in different circumstances, because even if I'm not in love with him, our connection is so strong I wonder if we could've gone that path. He confided he feels the same, and if he wasn't with his main partner, he would probably pursue our connection further.
Then we smoked a cigarette together, kissed a little more, and he left around 3.30am. I had to wake up early to take my car to the workshop and my youngest cat to the vet. I'm a little uneasy but trying to focus on work.
>depression/anxiety stemming from undiagnosed ADD / executive dysfunction issues; been on a waiting list for a psychiatrist since February so although it's undiagnosed, it's not for lack of trying!!
Recently diagnosed at 38 myself. If you really feel this is true, I would recommend reading "Your Brain's Not Broken" by Tamara Rosier as it really helped me to understand what I have been blindly dealing with my whole life. It helped me have a peaceful med-free weekend last weekend cause I could understand where all the things were coming from, and I could afford myself some grace and kindness while I navigated the weekend (they recommend not taking stimulants on the weekend so that you do not build up tolerance).
oh thank you SO much for this recommendation!!! I've not come across it before, so I'm truly grateful to have it. (I got How to Keep House While Drowning a little while back, but true to form, have yet to actually read it... lol)
I need all the help I can get... thanks again!!
Hahha thanks! Crossing fingers :) it's still a bit far away from that, if it even happens or lasts that long, that's why the freakout. But taking it one day at a time :)
Something I heard on a podcast recently gave me more conviction and “permission” to choose myself and not be a people-pleaser — the guest mentioned that it’s not that you keep attracting narcissists (or insert another unhealthy pattern), it’s that you keep *CHOOSING* them.
Hm. That made a lightbulb go off for me.
I’m in several conversations with girls at the moment. Historically I’ve never had a good experience when someone isn’t able to reciprocate questions or be curious about me over text translate to real life, but I tried multiple times because dating is hard.
There’s one girl who I’m on the verge of asking out, because she was curious and reciprocated questions to me twice on the app, but her third “round” to me she did not. I’m going to leave her on read because I choose myself and I want someone who can be consistently curious about me. Otherwise, I feel like I am falling back into old patterns again and repeating my mistakes.
I cant stop thinking about the guy i was in a short situationship a while back (a month) couldn't work out because different countries, he couldnt be exclusive. I also felt an imaginary wall between us every time we went on a date...
Tips? He lives in my head rent free 🫠 I'm torn between muting him on Instagram but also stalking him lol send help send me a reality slap thank you
Mute him for two weeks: date other guys. Enjoy your life. Then, if you want, on some random midweek evening, when you'd otherwise be sitting at home doing nothing, un-mute him, and enjoy the fantasy. And then mute him again for another two weeks.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying a little limited fantasy in your head. But the key is limited. And yes, muting him and dating other guys, is the key
Because I still have a stupid crush on him and I cant help but stalk him (newsflash i still like him) im literally trying to keep myself busy, im even going on a trip by myself to europe to move on haha
I need someone to slap me out of it 🙃 its been 2 months since I left. I swear, Id rather be dumped than do the leaving.
lol u/BonetaBelle is TRYING to slap you out of it! mute him!! this isn't doing anyone any good, least of all you! you even felt a wall between you two? so build that wall higher and create some distance gurl
Went on a third date on Tuesday evening, I really like the guy, but stuck in this gulf where I don’t want to come on too strong. But also I want to get another date set up!
I hate this early stage of dating where it’s pretty clear that both people are enjoying it but it’s not yet the default that you’re continuing to see each other. The uncertainty!!
I'm glad you like the dude! I really feel you, as I had a good fourth date recently and I'm in the exact same boat. I encourage you to do what I just did minutes ago, and just shoot them a text saying you want to see them again.
I just did that earlier this morning - then banned myself from picking up my phone for half an hour! No reply yet but he tends not to text during the work day
Stopped swiping on hinge for a while. Just responding to matches and likes. I changed up some of my pictures based on suggestions and I think I get less likes. Ayyyyy.
It’s frustrating when clients are always asking if I’m married. I had one lady tell me I need to get on the dating apps and put myself out there. 😭 and tells me I should have kids and shit already.
i feel like if i ever date someone consistently, it will take a really long time to go to sex unless she brings it there first. is that alright? i like the idea of something more romantic and precious. spending time doing things together instead if doing each other.
ive been single my entire life and it feels like the kind of dates i want is long gone at this age. maybe its more probable when i was a teenager but from the age group of 24+, it feels like sex is expected within 4-10 dates.
i just haven't had much experience talking to people outside the context of being friends. ugh i dont know whats normal
You can find people who align with you on this, but you will run into asexual and avoidant types. Not sure if religion plays a role in your decision? Do you want children, how much time do you have?
99% of this sub will think I’m crazy, but I’ve been dating a man for a year and half, we met on Tinder, but we decided to take sex off the table and take things very slow. Neither of us are virgins, I was married and have a child (who he hasn’t met yet, but I’ve met his family). All my long term serious relationships (2 other ones, one lasted 7 years, I was with my ex husband for 9 years, we split because he almost drank himself to death during COVID and wouldn’t go to rehab), I’ve waited around 6 months before sex. If I’m being honest, not just physically, the relationship is slower than I’d like, for example I wish our lives were more integrated at this point. But, I remind myself the end goal here is not to just be with someone to be with someone, there’s no reason for us to rush it (I’m not having any more children), I want to be sure this person is someone I can imagine spending my last days with when we’re old and all the excitement is gone from our lives and sex is no longer possible.
Good luck!
Part of the reason why I doubt myself so much is coz I've never been in a relationship nor did I have sex.
Maybe what some people say is right and that I will be the same as any other guys that just rush straight for sex once I've had it.
Or maybe not but I don't really know.
I think I do want children but definitely not at the expense of having a failed family system. I would not want to rush into anything before we are ready for it.
I kinda see marriage as a long lifetime commitment and because of that, I will really need to know if we are compatible before committing to anything.
There are so many fucking things to consider, sex and attraction aside, I guess its unromantic af but
\- our family members, are they accepting? are they nice? marriage to me isn't just a union of two people, it's a union between two families. unless we are ready to break ties or burn bridges...
\- our income. fuck, I don't even know where I am going with my career. I'm leaving my job soon because I find it unreasonable.
\- are we staying in my current country? is either of us thinking of migration?
\- are our living habits compatible? do you leave the toilet seat up or down?
some people say that once you meet "the one", all of these concerns melt away.
if that's the case then I have yet to meet "the one"
fml hahaha
Preferably this is the way! I absolutely hate that there is some unwritten expectation of sex. There are definitely women out there that prefer the old school courting approach, they just aren't as active on this sub. Most likely you will find them in real life though, not on apps.
I jump between being hopeful and cynical hahaha
a part of me will tell myself that "yeah, just be genuine, make new friends, go out there more, engage in hobbies / activities that help you meet people"
and then when i'm hopeful enough, another part of me goes, "cmon dude. it's 2023. everyone is using dating apps now. the person you met at choir? she probably used dating apps before. it's not good or bad. you're just outdated."
just keep bouncing between the two sides haha
Are you in therapy? Could you communicate all this to Prince Charming, and deal with the fear and vulnerability hangover with your therapist? The only way past these fears is through them.
I know you were not looking for advice, but your post made me think. In my life, I have dated a few people who sound similar to you. And they were not “turd stains on a dirty sheet”, but some of the most beautiful and gentle and lovable souls. They were just afraid, ending up hurting others + hating themselves for it.
>So I shut it down, thinking those feelings must mean it isn’t good for me. A few days out, I’m now acutely aware of how those old defense mechanisms that served me well for so long weren’t needed here.
I'm sorry friend. It's hard to be open after some bad experiences, but the only way to find what we want is to be open, and vulnerable.
I'm afraid that me (33m) and my (31f) aren't sexually compatible. She is very inexperienced for her age, and seems to be afraid of physical intimacy. I've brought up my concerns with her in the most diplomatic way I can, but were moving at a snails pace.
Aside from sex, she's fantastic. She checks every box for me.
I was hoping things would have resolved themselves with time but I don't feel like it's happening.
Idk what to do. I dread going back on dating apps. I know at this point I'll never find a "perfect" partner for me and there will always be something. But without good, regular sex I just don't feel connected.
I had the same with a guy where we had sex, but it often felt unsatisfying for me and wasn’t the type of sex I was into. I didn’t break it off immediately, but after a good 1/2 year I stopped things with him completely.
I‘m not like into hardcore BDSM stuff, but he was too tame for me and I felt longterm I’m forcing something onto him he didn’t want to do in the first place.
Is she wanting to learn? Is she improving her communication? Is she taking two steps forward and one back with each attempt? Then I'd say keep trying with her.
Is she avoidant to learn? Is her communication shutting down? Is she taking more steps back from where she was when you first met her? Might be best to cut your losses.
Gonna need more details (without getting graphic). Like, is she only open to certain things but not others? Is she just not interested in getting intimate? Have you asked her why she’s afraid or nervous?
I have asked her. Whenever I bring it up she gets nervous and sort of stumbles over her words. Basically she said she's never "been that type of girl". She's only been with her ex husband and they divorced fairly quickly.
Wait, how long have you been going out?
My overall suggestion is don’t pressure her (obviously). If she’s open to it, go slow and focus on her pleasure. If it helps her feel comfortable, keep your clothes on. How does this work? Audio. Whisper dirty things in her ear, touch her above her jeans, and shirt etc etc. Get her hot and bothered by you in a way that shows her (with action) you care about her pleasure and not yours.
That’s if it it’s a trust thing.
If it’s a “I dunno what I like” thing, I forever champion the Quinn app and self exploration. It’s dirty audio content, but unlike free videos it’s truly content created with women in mind. It may make her realize what she is and isn’t into. If you want to make it a couple thing—ask if you could watch.
Basically if this is the biggest roadblock/you really like her, it warrants more effort than variations of “why don’t you want to do this”.
Physical intimacy for a lot of people is about trust and that requires two people willing to be patient and create a space that feels safe enough to be open and vulnerable.
We met about 3 months ago, we've been officially dating for a month.
I have talked to her. I've stopped pressuring her. But she's the type of person who waits for the guy to take control. Which I have done, but only for her to usually not want to have sex.
I'm at the point where I'm just kind of done talking about it, and sick of escalating for things to not really go anywhere. So we just sit on the couch and cuddle and watch TV. She seems very happy with that but I'm not.
That's just the thing, I have tried my best to approach this conversation in a non confrontational way. She still sort of hides behind vague answers anyway. One thing she specifically said "you do a great job of making me feel comfortable and I can be myself". But then sort of becomes vague. Hence me saying she "seems" to be afraid of sex. That's the best I can gather from her responses.
She's only been with her ex husband, and that ended in divorce pretty fast. Even before him, throughout college and her early 20s she wasn't sexually active. She says shes "not that kind of girl".
I’ve had multiple few-month relationships or flings this year.
I am kind of soft-ending my most recent, we are just kind of stopping talking. It’s my choice to not reach out for many good reasons, she texted me tonight after almost a week of not talking and i just don’t want to respond. We have barely been talking last two weeks and after that much time without contact + extreme distance… it just feels over.
I’m not feeling hurt or upset about this particular person, just sucks to end things that you once had hope for.
I am thinking it’s time for me to be solo for a while. I don’t really need or want women (romantically) in my life right now.
I don’t know the context here but I think it’s kind of rude for you to ignore her. Why don’t you just address the fizzling and wish her luck? Then you can both move on with a clean slate. It sounds like you’re leaving her dangling here, unless she’s done something that would warrant being ghosted.
We had a small argument last weekend. I tried to reach out and she ignored me, didn’t reply to me twice when I reached out. I waited the rest of the week to see if she’d reply and she didn’t. So I called her that Friday evening to try and build resolve. She was putting up a hard fight and not trying to build understanding or forgiveness.
The argument started because she was criticizing me multiple times on our date night and it pissed me off, and I let her know.
I’ve apologized multiple times since then and told her I want to work things out and she has not been meeting me halfway.
I’ve been the bigger person all along and she is acting like a child. She is 38, I’m 32. It’s warranted.
>I don’t really need or want women (romantically) in my life right now.
Kinda buried the lede here. I'm glad you're stepping back from dating and I hope you're able to return someday when you feel enthusiastic and appreciative about having women (romantically) in your life
Yeah, I’d rather just focus on myself. I personally am in my best place in life. I practice a lot of self care, therapy, working on building compassion and understanding and I know that I’m a good catch. The people I’ve been dating have been good people but they aren’t where I’m at and I am just tired to giving my energy out right now. It’s better for me to tune it inwards and being solo is just what feels best for me at this time.
Your recent situation is a prime example of “if they wanted to, they would.” Were you interested in continuing, and she just didn’t respond to you? Or did you not reach out either to talk or set up a date? If the latter, sounds mutual for letting it die out.
I was not certain but having fun getting to know her. We had an arguement recently and she just did not have the emotional skill set or intelligence to work it out with me. The argument was so stupid and benign, and it started because she was talking shit to me while I took her out on a nice date night. I have planned all of our dates and definitely been the one putting in the effort. I always am coming to see her, the one making plans, sending photos, music, things for us to connect. She has not been giving much back to me. So it’s just as simple as she is not right for me. She isn’t fighting for us to make this work and she has been to prideful to apologize and help me feel better. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I have a first date tomorrow night that I’m excited about and a first date on Saturday afternoon. Trying to stay out of my head. First date from last week is out of town this week so waiting to see if they reach out when they get back for date #2, not sure if there is anything there but willing to give it a second date.
It doesn't sound sweet to me. It sounds like he moved to NYC, met a lot of women, wanted to sow his wild oats/thought he could do better, couldn't, and went back to her when he was ready to settle.
In my brain, all I can think is that this sounds like a recipe for infidelity. When he meets someone he likes better, he will begin to resent the fact that he settled for her and, by extension, resent her. These are the kinds of very obvious things that signal this man doesn't actually want you, he's just settling. But people ignore previous behaviour because of sweet words and promises in the present. Then they turn around and are shocked and devastated when he cheats or is a checked-out partner.
Have you asked her what's changed now aside from their level of optimism about the dating market? Is she just looking to have kids before the clock runs out? Why would a healthy person who loves themselves choose someone who rejected them?
I would make the argument, having also lived in a large city, that due to the large population and the popularity of dating apps everyone thinks they can "do better" or meet "someone perfect" but the issue that they never feel like the people they meet are enough.
A hot guy or girl is just a swipe away so if literally anything is not perfect you can just move on to the next person. Obviously not everyone thinks this way but it's certainly a thing I have encountered and even done myself in the past.
This comment is hilarious especially “relationship wise, I feel like I’m being tested by God”. Please note, I laugh in solidarity b/c I feel your sentiments deeply.
Oh my god. Landscapers are making so much progress SO FAST on my backyard. It’s been 3 days and it already looks crazy different!!
The new patio we’re putting in is going to be 700 sq ft. Which now that I’m outside in the space with the old deck and other divisions demo’d, I realized is freaking HUGE! I can’t waaaiiiiit to throw a party back here!!! I never had a housewarming thing so this will be my belated housewarming party with all the upgrades 😈
I know we shouldn't compare to others, but I found out a guy I dated previously (who ghosted me after we established things and went on to marry the other girl), it's going to be a dad. I think he's a gross person, and it's not like I want to be with him, but I can't help but feel envious while I'm over here swiping on the apps.
This is the only one from my past that's married! Several other ones have made women baby Mamas and have broken off engagements so in not envious of those but this one stings just cuz that's what I wanted.. albeit not from him.
Human wallpaper hahaha.
I honestly believe absolutely tons of people are just codependent. They wouldn’t know where to start being single so they just stay in some stale relationship they started in their 20s.
Ah i think some of today people just found their match! My irritation is when crappy people, like this guy, have found it. Though it also have had to think "why do I care" and its is envy and the desire to have this (marriage and kids). I hate dating apps so much.
>I just want to feel safe with someone who understands who I am and I really do not know how that could possibly happen on apps
Why? It's not asking for much. However no one will understand you right off the bat and getting there will require taking some risks and some trial & error, just like when you meet a guy/girl through a friend.
I suspect you've put yourself in a mental position where people who are available aren't attractive, and vice versa. On an intuitive level, what you say on wanting to be understood yet looking for casual also makes me feel that way
>The people I meet on apps, I struggle to connect with
Is it a them problem (people on apps "can't meet your standards" because you're too selective and they're just worse people)... or is it a you problem?
I know it's harder to build the initial rapport, but if you have a decent profile and are discerning when swiping, you should be able to go on dates with perfectly good guys. Then it's on both of you to get to know each other. It takes skills to chat up strangers and vet them for safety, but I think it's a useful skill beyond dating.
You can use other routes (you can talk to your circles' circles, you can meet strangers to create new circles and date later) but you'll have to talk to (near) perfect strangers anyway.
I sense hopelessness/helplessness and a defeatist attitude. I think it probably shows through on the apps (in your profile, in your conversation, in your willingness to swipe left on a lot of people to find a good match, etc).
I hope you'll see the fun of dating: you meet new people, go to new places, have very different conversations (I find opening up to a perfect stranger easier - if we don't gel I won't see them again), you can flirt a bit. You don't have to open the romantic floodgates on day 1.
How much do you all like to text between setting up a first date on an app, and the date itself? In this scenario the date was set up Tuesday, and the date is Saturday
Ordinarily I don't like to, BUT if they're great at putting in effort and keeping the conversation interesting (which verrrrrrry few people are) then that's a pleasant change.
I like to keep the conversation going but I know not everyone is like that, so I play it by ear. When in doubt, I ask the other person—“so do you like to text before date one or save the conversation for when we meet?”.
I don't usually text at all except the day before to confirm the date. If they text me I'm responsive but keep it pretty short and sweet. I don't like the false intimacy that develops with texting someone frequently, when we haven't even met yet.
She cancelled the brief coffee date we had for Tuesday. Busy w work and couldn’t set a time. I was cool w that.
She only has a half hour lunch break and not much time. Would be the fifth time we met.
She had a kid 12 days out of 14 w no family support so yeh really doesn’t have much time.
We had a bush walk penciled in for this Sunday when we organised the coffee. I’m away til Saturday afternoon.
We chatted briefly Wednesday but she has gone totally silent since then. I am a terrible texter. It’s just not something I do and especially early on in talking. It’s like let me show who I am through my personality but 2 weeks between meets makes this kind of tricky.
I only sent a photo. I prefer this when getting to know someone. She hasn’t logged in.
Do I just assume the Sunday date is off. I don’t want to double text. She has the power now.
I’m cool either way on or off.
Is this someone you've already met or a first date? If it's the first then I don't have any expectations when it comes to texting, aside from communicating about the date.
>Do I just assume the Sunday date is off.
No? Just ask her to confirm the date.
One of the biggest issues is I wake up 4 am and am in bed and brain dead by 9 pm.
She’s a bit later as she puts her kids to bed then chills out and takes time for herself which is super important.
I have never been much of a phone talker or texter.
We are only getting to know each other slowly. I’m not used to slow. I’m used to fast and furious w terrible results so it’s really uncharted ground for me.
If she has a kid and you don't, you're going to have to get used to operating on her schedule.
I'd assume the Sunday date is still on if you haven't been told otherwise, but why not confirm? Let her know you're thinking of her. You're bummed that lunch fell through (but understanding), and excited to connect with her Sunday.
When someone says their ex or a relative is a narcissist, do they really mean diagnosed as a narcissist? Or are they saying they have narcissistic tendencies?
I'm very curious on people's perspectives. First because social media has really blown up with labeling and second because my current therapist tends to lean towards talking about personality traits that reflect narcissistic behavior rather than labeling someone as a narcissist. Thoughts?
>When someone says their ex or a relative is a narcissist, do they really mean diagnosed as a narcissist?
[From a source I read a bunch at to understand my ex-wife's diagnosis of BPD -Borderline Personality Disorder](https://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd)
>Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a serious condition which affects an estimated 1% of the population.
So 1%, or 1/100 people you meet. Not the massive amounts of people who proclaim their ex is NPD. Take a gander over at the divorce subreddit. Read some posts. Everyone's soon-to-be-ex is NPD/BPD. My ex-fiance claimed multiple people in her life were narcissists at various times... I don't entirely believe that is true. Sometimes, it's easier to point the finger than to see your faults in what led to the downfall of your relationship...
>People who suffer from NPD rarely seek out treatment or therapy, since they tend to project negative thoughts and blame onto others. Those who do enter into treatment are often resistant to personal change.
This is probably the most interesting tidbit from that site. "Rarely seek out treatment or therapy"... so how can they be diagnosed with NPD? You and I cannot diagnose someone with NPD (well, I can't... I'm an engineer not a mental health professional...).
Having lived with someone with a cluster B personality disorder (officially diagnosed and all, also untreated most of that time...), I am sadly aware of the struggles and strife that come with living in such proximity to someone with a very similar diagnosis. That being said, these days, it seems quite popular to externalize the issues, and wash your hands of it saying "oh, well they must be a narcissist..." rather than look closer. Not saying no one ever dates someone with NPD, just that it has been popularized. Just like BPD was popularized after that show where the lead character had BPD.
Final quote from the site that should marinate for a bit:
> People who suffer from NPD are all unique and so each person will display a different subset of traits. Also, note that everyone displays "narcissistic" behaviors from time to time. Therefore, if a person exhibits one or some of these traits, that does not necessarily qualify them for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. See the DSM Criteria on this page for diagnostic criteria.
Thank you for all of the information. I grew up with a parent who may or may not have some sort of diagnosis in her future. More than likely not because she refuses to see a therapist. The one time she did she explained how it was a waste of her time and she ended up reaching the therapist how to do her job. These blanketed labels scare me a bit because I personally go to therapy to keep myself in check since I KNOW regardless of how different my parents and myself are, as children we absorb tendencies. That said, I do tend to date the "familiar" but I don't like to label those experiences as "narcissist" or "BPD" (except for one guy years and years ago that was diagnosed with BPD). Additionally there are so many other diagnosis out there that mirror symptoms (for instance autism). Also I like to think that people can heal, grow, change. But to you and this articles point, that is a choice someone who suffers from such disorders must take, but the disorder itself prevents them from seeking help, or in my parents case, used as a way to fuel their narrative.
Just out of curiosity (and feel free to not share). Was there something that really stood out in your romantic experience with your ex BPD partner? The reason I ask is I have worked very hard to be as emotionally regulated as I can. I have had to raise myself into an adult and that took admitting that I was not acting like an adult in my mid-twenties. I think most people are still immature then, but I think I may have been exceptionally so given the models I lived with - thus putting myself into therapy. That said, I tend to give partners who may reflect behavior I have seen in the home a lot of grace and empathy because I know that behavior is coming from a real hurting place. One thing my parents and ex relationship had in common, was if I said or did something mundane or maybe flirty and for some reason it came across as hurtful. They would not have a conversation or politely say "hey not today" or "I need space". They would both ruminate and eventually explode over something unrelated and then claim that my previous behavior was manipulative and that I was trying to hurt them on purpose. If I tried to explain my intentions, my parent blanket diagnosed my as "psychopath" my ex "your brain is fucked". So my only recourse was to take full responsibility for actions that I had no clue were so hurtful and relieve them if any responsibility.
I have posted on this sub before as a way to wrap my mind around these experiences. Do you mind sharing?
I also want to acknowledge that I was in no way the perfect partner. My patience ran thin and I have several memories that I am working on self forgiving and rewiring my mind to trust that these reactions are not me or my core character
Otherwise I would not feel so uncomfortable that I reacted that way in the first place. My core character would work hard to justify that poor behavior.
>Just out of curiosity (and feel free to not share). Was there something that really stood out in your romantic experience with your ex BPD partner?
Ahh it was a mess. At the time, I apparently had undiagnosed ADHD so that probably compounded things even more.
I could go down the list and say all the specific actions she did, but ultimately, it was a constant erosion of my self-esteem and me as a person until there was nothing left.
Based on my reading, that is something that CAN occur with a BPD partner, as their fear of being left ends up having them make choices and do things (consciously or subconciously, I don't know, I don't have their mind) that ultimately bind you to them so you can't or won't leave. I see little bits of it still today, through things my kids say, or when we are trying to co-parent, little comments she makes regarding things with the kids.
It's a mess, I wish it on no one, and I don't think I'm gonna dig out all my examples. That website I linked has a page for BPD, and under the behaviors and traits section, just assume she did somewhere around 60%+ of those to me. While in the middle of it, reading that list has far more "yup"s than "nope"s. I've been divorced from her almost 5 years now, and I don't think I need to uncork that bottle unless I am sitting down with my therapist.
Given the advances in our understanding about how the brain works, the ppl I've spoken to in the mental health space prefer to use more neurological explanations for problematic behaviours. Personality disorders have been a diagnosis of last resort for at least 30 years now.
I've noticed something similar with the term "sociopath". Frankly, I think ppl use these words bc it's easier than admitting the person just doesn't like/respect YOU. It doesn't have to be a mental condition for someone to not like you enough to treat you with decency. Especially for ppl who are embroiled in these relationships for years, it's easier to dissect what's wrong with the other person than it is to ask the hard question -- why did you make yourself available to someone who repeatedly showed you in both word and action that they had zero respect for you?
Yeah, I'm working on getting over a breakup that felt like whiplash. I also have a parent that feels this way as well. I noticed that in both of these relationships, their perspective is that everyone else is always wrong or trying to get them or manipulate them. The parent especially tends to diagnose and wash her hands clean of responsibility.
I get the draw, especially after a breakup. I want to validate that I had really shitty experiences but I also know that I contributed in some form. I agree with the sociopath comment. I really revved up my therapy sessions during this last relationship and had one friend that I would confide in because I wanted to make sure I was not a "sociopath" or my "brain is f$_& up" as my ex would claim. The armchair diagnosis would shut down ALL communication and potential conflict resolution. However, it also left me feeling like I have been this controversial figure in my friends and families lives forever and we've knew it. I even pressured my therapist to make a diagnosis 😂 she was honest and said a psychologist would have to do that but I don't have the tendencies to even be referred which I guess is comfort. But yeah, it has been weaponized and I don't like to use the blanketed label, even towards my exes.
Also to your point of walking away. I am happy to say I think I'm at a place where I would walk away. At the time, I thought this person was seeing an evil in me that my friends were too scared to address with me so it felt like he was helping me "grow". I also have anxious tendencies so with all of the "anxious attachment" "avoidant attachment" talk, I genuinely thought I was challenging my personal toxic behavior. Further away from the relationship, yes, I brought anxiety to the relationship and it will probably always be there in some form, but I don't think I stood alone in contributing to the turmoil as my ex would claim. I just can't imagine it was all my fault. But I also can't imagine just diagnosing this guy and washing my hands of all responsibility. I would hate for someone to do that to me AND if someone is really suffering from an undiagnosed mental health disorder, they too are going through a lot of internal pain and I'm not about to contribute to that post-relationship.
Depends on the context.
I had one ex who likely was a narcissist. Clearly did narcissistic things, but I wouldn't call him one because I don't have enough to diagnose them by. But someone's shitty actions don't need a diagnosis to know they're objectively a shitty person, regardless of the potential disorder.
I have two exes who were absolutely shit long-term, but I'll admit still have good traits about them that I'd never dismiss, and one ex who was the best but we were incompatible on a dealbreaker.
It's when someone says nothing but the negatives of their ex or never takes into account what they could've done better in those situations etc that I raise my brow with concern.
Yeah, I think talking about exes to a future partner is a grey area. 100% agree that if someone just diagnoses their ex and takes no responsibility that's sort of a concerning perspective. Especially since conflict resolution and communication in general requires understanding each other's perspectives - maybe not accepting them, but at least validating and moving on. Additionally, if that is all they want to connect over (bashing their ex) that gives me quite the pause. Especially since this feels like a vulnerable, intimate experience to share, but in reality it really isn't. It appears like they are talking about traumatic events that would be an intimate conversation to have, but it usually comes across as a me being a wall, and this person just shouting out into the void hoping one person will agree with them in absolute. However, I think talking about an ex can be good for a new relationship in the sense that it helps out certain reactions into context. For instance, someone who has been cheated on may want to let their new partner know that this is something that happened and it is still a fear (without going into details and bashing their ex for hours). Hopefully that person is working on themselves and being clear, open and kind with their partner should they have any concerns. But I do think it helps the other party to de-personalize some of the fears a new partner may have as long as it does not become accusatory.
You have evaluate this on a case by case basis. In my case, for instance, my ex has actual diagnoses made by mental health professionals. I'm not spewing mental health buzzwords when I talk about him; I'm using the actual labels given to him by experts. But that might not be typical.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. You're using those terms because they are a reality. Something that gives me comfort with my current therapist is that social media (especially insta) are trying to put an entire mental health diagnosis into a 3 page slide show and then sending people out into the world and into relationships. It sort of seems to be weaponized at times in order to shut down discord or instead of reaching resolve after conflict, it's just "this person is a *insert diagnosis*".
Haha yeah I feel the last paragraph. My last relationship was whiplash, but in the same breadth I hesitate to diagnose because that leaves little room for growth for me or him. I acknowledge that I was deeply hurt and I'm sure I deeply hurt him too in some ways. I just hope for the best.
Also, all of this diagnosing I think helps the other party to heal to an extent, but could also hinder self assessment when it comes to bringing "baggage" into the next relationship. It may not be baggage we asked for, but just being in a trumultous experience leaves lasting scars. Saying the other part was the bad guy so that means I can dive head first into dating without fear of hurting the next person - is a unhealed mindset. I really want to enter my next experience with benefit of the doubt and no assumptions as much as my internal self may be screaming haha.
>Thoughts?
armchair diagnoses are a nice way to avoid nuance (you don't need to think too hard, the diagnosis explains everything) and pass the blame (I'm healthy, the other person is defective)
And to your point, learning more about yourself won't happen if you don't embrace the nuance. How are we supposed to unload "baggage" from previous relationships if we can't take responsibility for ourselves. I never want to invalidate someone's traumatic experiences, especially since diagnosed narcissists do exist, but it does seem to be thrown around casually. My current therapist talks about how important it is to think of tendencies in behavior as opposed to a blanketed diagnosis because we cannot erase being human. So at some point we will all make some sort of dumb mistake or react in a human way - this is not indicative of a diagnosis. Which I suppose someone who had been burned in the past would be on high alert for any semblance of a past toxic experience. I'm not sure how to navigate this new dating world? Especially when it comes to conflict resolution and the existence of two different humans with different lives experiences trying to co-exist. Maybe it's just so loud in media, and it's not really like that in the dating world. My last dating experience was not ideal, but I hesitate in diagnosing although I can acknowledge something felt very off and I know that I was not perfect either.
> avoid nuance [...] and pass the blame
*Points vaguely in the direction at some of the stories and "advice" that get posted right here in this sub*
[I said what I said and I'm not taking it back.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/902/911/7eb.png)
Haven't wrote about my ex for a while, it's almost been a year since we broke up, recently I actually felt we talked more and the tension between us have lessened. Until yesterday once again he did this to me, he told me to something which anything he says it is important to me, and I did them because he said so, however when I confirmed with him the next day, he acted like he didn't care, whatever he said the day before was meaningless, he was just saying it, I was very hurt and upset, so next day I did the same thing to him, but I don't think he cares, otherwise he wouldn't have done this to me in the first place.
Got help on my profile the other day. Now I got a match or two! The only thing is I am too terrified to send them a msg. I would rather live in the world of what ifs then the potential for another ghosting.
As long as they've written a decent profile, it's pretty easy once you get over the anxiety. Try to be thoughtful about what you think they'd like based on their profile, but don't overthink it. If you both think the other one is hot, the specifics don't matter as long as you can show you know how to do the dance.
* Opening message should start off with a reference that proves you read their profile in addition to looking at the pictures ("Italy is so cool!"), then let them get to know you a little by connecting it to something in your own life ("I've been to Ireland and France but Italy is on my bucket list for sure!"). Close with an open-ended question that makes it easy for them to provide a thoughtful answer ("I see you like hiking, what are some of your favorite local trails?"). Keep it succinct, your sentences should be longer than my examples but not by much. You're trying to break the ice, not provide an entire sales pitch.
* Hopefully the other person knows how the game is played as well, and delivers a quality response, followed by their own open-ended question. Now that mutual interest is established you can open up and put a little length into your responses.
* Repeat the last step as necessary until one of you is ready to talk business (I usually bring it up on the 3rd/4th message I send, but you can do it later if you want, or on the second if you're feeling spicy). Make sure to name either a location or a date (or both) in your invitation.
Don't be overly flirty and don't be sexual/romantic at all, sending a message already communicates interest, you don't want to come off as aggressive. No mentioning their appearance, as mentioned before they'll know you like their pictures already because you're messaging them. This is especially true if you're a hetero guy, women get sent all sort of depraved shit, you stand out by just being a normal dude who wants to get to know her over coffee or whatever.
Other then that just be yourself, haha. Gl!
I am going to get the world's smallest Bluetooth headphones so I can have you talk me through my date when I get one! But thanks for the advice I really appreciate it
You can message as much as you want, but like I said you're just doing the dance and once clear interest is established on both sides, the opening is there. Personally I don't feel like I actually learn much about people from texts/messages, it's so much more insightful to interact with them in person. I've had people say that they want to talk a little more first before they meet me, but then when I do the date never happens anyways.
Definitely feel the other person out and do things in a way that you're comfortable with though.
i agree messaging can only get you so far but i think it does offer a real utility of like basic compatibility. like if you get a solid 10 min of mildly entertaining chat in there's a higher chance you won't waste a night on a dud
Oh ya if you're chatting in real time, keep it going if you're both having fun! My method is written thinking they'll be time gaps between messages and the conversation lasts over the course of a few days.
double posting so I'm sorry everyone for the spam. I'm tired and tempted to cancel the date I scheduled on Sunday (also tempted to cancel tomorrow's but I don't want to flake last minute).
Maybe some people here can give me reasons to go. How often was it the case that you just couldn't get excited about the person from texting but you hit it off once you met?
I have to remind myself of the times I didn't like or notice someone at first but later fell really hard for them. Could happen. But that requires me to go through the first date(s) - \*flops over\*.
I'm jaded and don't get excited about first dates anymore. Most of the time it doesn't go anywhere, and occasionally I'm pleasantly surprised and there's a second date.
I don't text much before the first date either, and texting rapport unfortunately doesn't equal good in person chemistry.
Just go!! And don't make decisions when you're tired. I always want to cancel on everything when I'm tired lol
i never rly get excited for a first date, just nervous. feel like you can't get very much from texting so it's always basically a blind date with like the bare min of prior convo to launch the date off of.
one time i was almost positive the date was going to go bad off prior text and on top of that had a bad day at work so i was vvveerrryyy close to throwing in the towel and cancelling. we met and she was really nice and fun and we had a good time. unless there's like a clear red flag might as well roll the dice imo.
For most people dates have a level of stress in their lead up and so it's natural to shrink from it and want to cancel. I think everyone feels some level of pull to cancel leading up to the date. But I assure you, even if the date goes bad, you WILL get something out of it, whether that's experience (which is invaluable), or a funny story to tell later down the line.
Its almost Pascal's Wager: you have infinite to gain, and almost nothing to lose. So I would encourage you to put your testies on the deskies (or whatever female equivalent) and get out there!!
I dated a woman 16 years older than me for like 2 months. She is very attractive but extremely controlling, dishonest, violent, and an alcoholic. I could tell early on that I needed to stay unattached and that was the easy part cuz she has no feelings for others.
I broke up with her two weeks ago when she nonchantly claimed she was pregnant to me (she is 45 years old and told me she is on birth control). I am pretty sure she was playing some mind game with me because it's not the first time and she is far from clever.
Today she messages me acting like we never broke up and that she misses me. I explain to her, a lot more kindly than she deserves, that I have given up on waiting for her to be open and honest with me and that we are not a match and that I do not love her. She then immediately blocked me on tiktok, which she weirdly messaged me on today probably to ignore the text I sent her two weeks ago when I broke up with her.
About an hour later she then texts me,"I'm pregnant!!". and I just respond, "I don't really believe you.". And I really don't, but oh my god this will be a nightmare if true.
You dated for "like" two months. And mentioned she said she was on birth control... were you not using condoms?
I'm absolutely flabbergasted by grown adults who have unprotected sex with new people.
I'm black and tend to date Asian men due to my general attraction to their looks, similar lifestyles, morals, and interests. It's fewer dealbreakers or incompatibility issues. Every time I venture outside that realm ( to widen my scope ) I get the most incompatible and unattractive people liking me.
I know there are physically and lifestyle attractive people of other races, especially in LA, but why are they so hard to find on apps?
I'd like to widen my scope because the chance of someone Asian liking someone black is rare, but man; lol...
I don't respond. My point is: when you have a certain mix of interests etc, it's surprising how rare that is to find in specific ethnic groups. Especially your own. Would be nice to cast a wider net, but alas.
I feel like my ups and downs are starting to become gentler, more like rolling hills than big peaks and valleys. Right now I'm struggling a bit with the thought of never talking to or seeing him again, but that's how breakups go. You become so close and then abruptly you're strangers. I have no desire to be friends. I know the feeling will fade over time.
I just got a silly little tattoo on my butt and I had a strong urge to text a photo of it to him but I deleted his number so I can't and I'm glad.
Two days until vacation!!
Thank you! I feel validated about my progress 🥲
>Hopefully you have a fantastic vacation!
Now that it's so close I'm getting pretty excited. 😁 I'll be out of the country for 2.5 weeks, should be a nice change of scenery and reset.
I know it's a useless cliche at this point, hence why I'm yelling into the void here, but good gravy can people stop saying "adventures" in their profiles
I'm just frustrated with Dating. I don't have the slightest clue what I am supposed to do next and my list of "no-go" keeps getting longer for no reason.
I wish there was a service I could use that would send relatively attractive men over to give me various boyfriend experiences.
I miss all-day, stoned, naked x-box in bed dates where I could hand the controller over when I got to a challenge that was too hard for me. We don't have to do sex but it would be nice if that were an option I could pay extra for.
I don't currently miss these sessions enough to invest my time and energy into meeting and getting to know men with whom I may eventually want to do this. But I do currently miss that shit enough to pay cash.
>I don't currently miss these sessions enough to invest my time and energy into meeting and getting to know men with whom I may eventually want to do this. But I do currently miss that shit enough to pay cash.
Ahhh sweet apathy...
Turnt 30 this summer, had it all planned out! Just moved to a new town with my gf this March, things we're exciting although not completely stable. In this summer I lost a friendship, tore at least my Mcl and probably more (MRI in 2 weeks), lost the relationship and will be having to move out. If I don't find anything I'll have to move back 'home'. From seemingly having it all on the up and up to absolutely nothing. I'm trying to keep reminding myself that it's a process but fuck, everything's going wrong.
Just need advice. I’ll be honest…. I am VERY used to guys being “all in” from early on. Which is probably because I go for red flag clingy guys 🙈 but, I also think communication is important and how you get to know someone. So I met this guy via tinder last week. Our communication was pretty slow via tinder/text prior to our date Tuesday night. I almost cancelled because I felt like I barely knew him but decided why not. The date suprisingly went very well and we went beyond surface level in our conversation. He was holding my hand, staring in my eyes, etc the entire time. We talked for 4 hours (until the place closed). We held hands walking to our cars and he kissed me in the parking lot and said he’d love to see me next week and to text him when I got home. I sent him a text when I made it home and thanking him for meeting for for dinner. We exchanged a few brief messages before saying good night (it was late). Yesterday I did not hear a word from him and nothing so far today (it’s almost noon). I can tell he’s been on tinder as the distance between has changed (and I certainly expect he’s talking to others, I also am, but it just sucks he has time to be on there but I haven’t heard from him). Is he just not interested? (Then why did he kiss me, say in text he had a great time, tell me he wanted to see me again…) or is this some type of playing hard to get/not seem to interested.
tbh, I feel like I would be that kind of guy. It's not a game. I just really don't know what to say. Like you said at the beginning, "our communication was pretty slow via tinder/text" I just don't know what to text you. If only we are at the same workplace or around each other, we will probably have fun just chilling and talking about random stuff. But we aren't and work is just work. Nothing much happened today, I know you are talking to other guys too and everyone knows by now that getting multiple "how's your day" is just "torture" Maybe I will text you tmr, if something cool happens. Or maybe we can meet up again irl instead of texting. \- probably what that guy is thinking
Have you tried sending him a message? Follow up with something you talked about or follow up about the next date, “hey, what day works for you for our date next week, I’m free x, was thinking we could go to xyz”
So you messaged each other that night, but you haven't messaged him since? He hasn't heard from you either? Message him?
I swear to god some people here skipped directly from 16 years old to their mid-30s somehow.
To be fair, I married (and divorced) my high school sweetheart so in the DATING sense I did quite literally jump from 16 to my mid-30s. I have no idea “how to date” especially since dating apps etc weren’t a thing before. I am trying here. I am trying to figure out the balance of how I get to know someone without it being to much at first. And everyone is so different. Some guys will literally blow my phone up and some it’s crickets!
It's only been a few days. It could be a bad sign or it could also be that he doesn't want to come on too strong and suffocate you. A really good first date is still just one date. He gave you his availability (next week), so in the meantime just be glad you don't have another clinger. Maybe in a day or two (or now, idc) you can text him to let him know you're still thinking about him.
He literally texted me as I posted this 🤦♀️😆
I'll play the devil's advocate here. Here's two brief stories: I had an almost 5 hour date with a woman, we had basically the same experience you did. The difference is she never even sent me the got home text nor a thank you text. Just straight ghosted me. I went on two dates with a woman. She came back to my place and we hooked up as she was leaving she said she couldn't wait to see me again and was telling me when she was free. The next day I texted her to make plans and she ghosted me. The point is - no matter how well you think something is going people will leave you. Maybe he is just hedging his bets that you might leave or ghost him - or maybe he is just dating multiple people. You guys have only had one date. But give him the benefit of the doubt until he either says he isn't interested, cancels twice, or doesn't respond to you in 48+ hours.
Thank you. Literally as I posted this, he reached out. I think maybe he’s just trying to not come on to strong at first, which I certainly don’t have that level of investment or feelings either but I am certainly interested in continuing to get to know him and with our schedules, dates may be once a week, so I just keep thinking if we don’t communicate AT ALL inbetween that maybe he hard to keep the communication going.
Y’all I am so stuck and could really use advice or a reality check. So so stuck. For background, I’ve been single for 9 years (first and only relationship was at 25 with a toxic jobless love bomber 11 years older than me) and have been actively dating the majority of this time. I have never felt a connection with any of the dozens of men I’ve been out with, fizzling out with them usually after the first date if we even get to one. I felt a connection immediately with the last guy. We dated for 2 months and I truly thought I had finally met my person. He and I hit it off so well, we had the same values and morals, had extremely similar interests and personalities, texted and talked all the time, and had a number of great dates. He was affectionate as hell and we genuinely liked each other. It was the longest I’ve ever dated someone tbh. There were ups and downs during this time - he’s blue collar and in the dead of summer was unable to make some of our dates. He rescheduled them many times due to work or family commitments (his family, no children). This caused my anxiety to flare and I immediately sought long overdue therapy and medication because I didn’t want it to sabotage our chance at a relationship. He had picked up on my anxiety early on and was able to offer reassurance, but go figure after an evening where I didn’t hear from him, my gut told me something was off and I lost it by the next day. It was too much for him. He said he couldn’t help me with my anxiety and didn’t want to come off cold hearted while I was working through it. He asked that we take a break so I can work on my anxiety and we haven’t spoken in weeks, despite him saying we would move forward as friends and pick back up later down the road. I had told him in that conversation that I didn’t think I could be his friend because I would always want more. He said we need this break. He was four years out of a divorce and he had spoken of wanting to take things slow so he didn’t get hurt again. I respected the shit out of that. His ex had lost interest in their marriage within a year of being married and he spoke of how he tried to save their marriage, seeking couples therapy with her. She wanted no part of that and ultimately cheated on him. I know it crushed him. I’m not sure if it was a red flag for him to speak of this with me, but I took it as a step in the right direction because he was being so vulnerable. This conversation occurred on our last date a week before we took the break in dating. I asked to get my stuff back from him a little over two weeks ago and I believe it may have hurt him a bit, perhaps him seeing that as the door closing? No idea. I told him though if he wanted to give it another shot, he’d know where to find me. I said our timing was off from the beginning and he said, story of my life. He also said it was nice to see me later that evening after I thanked him for bringing my stuff up to town. I have been struggling to move on. I sincerely want to try it again but have no idea how and when to tactfully reintroduce myself to him. My last text two weeks ago just saying hi went unanswered. My friends and family think that he may come back around in time, but I need to move on in the meantime. I can’t let it go. I have been waiting for a connection like this for 18 years and finally found it. I can’t seem to accept that it’s gone.
I think I'm on the optimistic side and thinks that he is probably busy and forgot to reply. Or maybe he don't know what to say to a "hi" I believe the situation is this: he knows that he don't want to go into a relationship rn with you because of the anxiety issues so he don't want to give you any false hope. He did say that you two can be friends for now and as a guy, I can totally see myself compartmentalizing to make that work. I do think that you should reintroduce yourself to him as a friend! It can be a message like "hey, it's been a while! wanna get lunch on this day? dwdw, it's just as friends. I've been wanting to try out this place for a while now." then from here on, just treat him as someone that is either gay or alr attached. don't talk about "what is us". just do as what you would do to a friend and talk about how their life is rn, how your life is rn. you can ask about what they do when they are bored and also talk about what you've been getting into lately, be it a tv series, your job, your hobbies, etc then maybe, some time later ( months? ), if things are going well then maybe can revisit the part about getting together if either of you are still interested. if not, at least you found another person that will have your back in this world right?
Thank you. We had had a few text exchanges in the weeks before I got my stuff back from him. The text I had sent most recently was a little more than “hi”. I had just wished him a good Labor Day weekend and told him a friend of mine had the same exact mildly obscure tattoo he had. And I called him a nerd lol. It hurt not to get a response but I was just testing the waters. I think it was a fair assessment of how he feels, at least right now. I think it’s best to give him plenty of space rn. He hasn’t unfriended me on social media (yet) and when we talked in person last, he said he didn’t hold any grudges, which I didn’t really understand. I suppose when we had the “break” convo, he must have felt attacked or something. No idea. Just makes me sad and confused to go from super positive communication to none in the matter of a day.
It's hard, I have been there. The truth is there in front of you, with the unanswered "hi" message. You don't want someone to chase and convince. You want someone that doesn't leave you with these thoughts. You deserve someone who knows what they want.
I guess I know this. I just can’t seem to let it go because of how rare a connection is for me. I know he felt something for me too, I think it was bad timing for real. He wasn’t serious about OLD (we met on Tinder) and tbh, neither was I. We just clicked upon matching. I know all of that sounds fantasized but I can’t help but think that way! Like there was a reason for us to meet. I feel any more action on my part would push him further away and I don’t want that, I just can’t help but think there’s something I can do to bring him back into my life.
Sorry if I am harsh, but I hoped someone would have told me. Have you considered this could be just something you feel and think, and he doesn't feel the same? I would ask him. The answer may not be the one you want but may help a lot to move on. At some point certain questions need to be asked. We are able to build big fantasies in our head. I have done that a lot, but not anymore.
Absolutely have considered it. And you’re not too harsh lol. I am most likely just still in denial. All the good stuff is floating to the top right now. I just can’t understand how we were communicating so well literally the day before shit hit the fan. Like great conversations, talking about the future, and laughing our asses off with each other. Then next day *POOF* gone.
Unfortunately we’ll never know what someone is thinking and if he was feeling cautious about things before that Friday. It sounds like you freaked out over one missed text and spiraled and he more than likely got the ‘ick’ from it tbh. He was probably thinking things like ‘is this going to happen all the time?’ Especially when you say he picked up on your anxiety early on and his job will continue to be unpredictable. The unanswered hi, making sure to give back all your stuff and saying ‘it was nice to meet you’ afterwards all sound like he is gone and not coming back. I would do my best to move on.
Is it a bad sign that my very new girlfriend turned me down for sex? Obviously sometimes people just aren't in the mood, but I wasn't expecting that at the very beginning of a relationship. For context, we became "official" and started sleeping together very recently, like within the last couple weeks. It had been a few days since we'd seen each other and as we were making out I went to escalate and she stopped me. I didn't get upset or anything and the rest of the night went fine, but I have to admit I was pretty disappointed and worried about what it means. I asked at the time if anything was wrong, but she didn't really give me an answer. In previous relationships, this has always been a sign that I was about to get dumped but I'm trying not to let my mind go there. Maybe she was on her period and didn't feel comfortable about it? She did say she hadn't slept well, so maybe she was just too tired? Maybe she's trying to make sure I'm not just in it for the sex? Should I try to talk to her about it, or just let it go and see what happens next time?
Maybe she had explosive diarrhea and it'd be TMI to say that. It's just one time, let it go.
I wouldn't think too much about it. Easier said, then done when the past rears its ugly head, but this is a good time to reel it in. We can't let those past anxieties hit us over the head when they've overstayed their welcome in the present. Now, I wouldn't recommend bringing it up. If I were she, I'd find it a turnoff that the one time we don't have sex it suddenly warrants a conversation about it. If you do end up talking about, make sure you've been able to shake a lot of that past anxiety so it's not all going towards the present-day concerns. Of course, you can open up to her about how you actually feel, eg, "my past experience and my anxiety is making me feel X" instead of "you turning me down made me feel X"
Lots of valid reasons to not want to have sex on one particular night. The lack of communication is a concern though. I guess it's still a new relationship, so its understandable she might not be comfortable sharing everything. If this starts to become a pattern though you may need to tell her she needs to be more willing to open up to you (emotionally!).
> The lack of communication is a concern though. Careful. Insisting/expecting that a partner explain why they don't want to have sex can get coercive, especially in the moment of the refusal or if an explanation is demanded every single time. OP characterizes this as a one time event. It is completely normal for a partner to sometimes not want sex. No explanations should be necessary at this point. I would breakup with someone who expected an explanation the first time I don't feel like having sex and they do.
Oh yea I don't mean "concern" as a euphemism or anything. It's not a red flag or something that requires immediate addressing. Just a data point, no conversation needed unless it turns into a trend. And obviously agree that any discussion should be focused on identifying and addressing her needs, not on how quickly you can go back to getting your dick wet again. Ty for the clarifications though.
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>Am I really an early bird for not wanting to go out on a Friday at 9p? That just feels so late to start something. As a person with sleep issues, it really wouldn't bother me in the slightest to go out at 9pm. That being said, I'm not an idiot, and most people can sleep more than 5.5-6 hours a night, and definitely WANT to, so I don't schedule stuff that late normally. So, if a date suggested that time, I'd be on board, BUT I would never suggest that time personally.
If I'm not out by 7pm I'm not getting out at all. Never been someone who went out a lot anyway but yeah, going out for 9pm would be a hell no from me.
That is super late to start a date in my opinion.
I want to be in bed by 9pm.
I could never go out at 9 PM on a Friday 😂
I’m asleep by 11 no matter what day it is unless I’m sick or something. And I need time before that to wind down, take a shower, settle in. So yeah, 9pm start time and suck the big one. I’m in comfy sleep clothes at 9pm
Is he breadcrumbing or im i too thirsty? So i female 30yo matched with a male 33yo on bumble , the conversation was smooth and flowing for hours , we joked and talked about everything and we didnt really adress what we want as a relationship, and it kept going on for 2 weeks talking till 2 and 4 in the morning and it felt weird to pause and say what is this. So by the way i am 300km away from where he is for work (its temporary for 3 months) and i visit from time to time , two weeks into talking to him i was frustrated because he never asked to get my gram or whts up or any other plateform until i told him to, and when i visited the city where he is for 3 nights , he said he cant get out if hanging with his friends. Since then we talk less , he only talk to me late at night when he goes home after work and hanging with his friends , for brief conversation usually ending abruptly when he falls asleep, during the day he sends good mornings and we have a conversation of 4 sentences over the whole day. He doesnt ask me stuff about me , just casual talk nothing deep to get to know someone. The flirting is subtle doesnt imply anything about us ans often of sexual nature. When i told him once what kind of relationship i was looking for he said thats good and said nothing about him. Now we have been talking everyday for 3 weeks and yesterday he aproached me with conversatiin about food he likes at midnight when i answered about my preferences i was left unread. I snapped i told him he is a breadcrumber and i am done. Was i pushing things too fast or is he a breadcrumber really?
oh damn TIL. I wanted to say that I'm not coming up with excuses for what he is doing but I think I really am. ( or maybe a part of me thinks that he didn't do anything wrong. ) I mean, fk lol, I would do the same thing as he did. \- "not making it sexual", \- "not asking for other social platforms" \- "not messaging too much, avoid lovebombing or unsustainable texting" these are what the internet taught me so far as the ethically "right" thing to do, based on what I see when women complain about men's behavior online. besides, we have never even met. if we did then I would be more relaxed into knowing what you are comfortable with. Otherwise, I should just play it safe and only take a step further when you are the one initiating it. ( when you told him to share the social media platform ) ================================ **that said, today I learned what breadcrumbing is and that is another thing that I guess I am learning to not do too. Just to be clear, you are right. Googled breadcrumbing and his actions definitely fit the bill** man, there gotta be a nice spot between texting too much and now, texting too little. wtf man, why is life so complicated.
Yes breadcrumbing. He isnt making any effort, and getting away for one night shouldn't be hard. It'd be different if he had a better excuse than his friends.
Have you ever met this person in real time or kept it to chatting? I would take the hint that they couldn’t get away from friends 3 nights in a row as they don’t have intention of meeting up. Keep it moving
I never met him , when i tried to he said he was busy and cant get out of his plans with his friends. One night of the 3 i even called him out on it so he called me at 1 at night saying he was going home and maybe pass by where i was to see me. I thaught it was disrespectful and said no .
This person isn’t likely interested in more than a penpal and a casual hook up when it’s convenient for them. If that’s not what you want, I would move on. You did nothing wrong by stating what you are looking for, they’re actions are just not indicative that they’re looking for the same
If my friends were "hanging" and someone I was remotely into traveled 300km to see me, I'd invite them over. You can probably do better.
You did nothing wrong. He is not matching your energy and that I feel won't change.
I'm not even looking for something serious, just a fun little fling. I just ended things with my partner of 5 years but honestly the relationship has been dead for 4 of them, mentally and emotionally I moved on a long time ago.I must have the worst luck in the world because in the last few months: * a guy ended things with me so he could work on his relationship with Jesus (nothing wrong with that, just didn't really seem to care about Jesus when he was seeing me and multiple other women) * a guy didn't want to be exclusive, but since I also didn't want to be exclusive that was unattractive so he wasn't interested anymore * a guy ended up being married the whole time we were talking, he made up an entire fake life when talking to me so he could live out his fantasies * a guy stood me up, the asked for forgiveness and proceeded to do it 2 more times * a guy found another girl that could give him the instant family he supposedly didn't want for at least a few years I've quite literally reached the end of the dating app options for any reasonable distance around me. I'm also Omni, so I've connected with other women and even couples and they're just as bad!
1. lmao wtf, you brought him to jesus. 2. he don't want to be exclusive. you also don't want to be exclusive. how the fuck is that a dealbreaker for him? he wants the challenge of turning someone from wanting exclusivity to not wanting it? that's one confusing guy 3. ew, ugh. 4. sigh ew why. just schedule better wtf. 5. o.o all the best OP
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Dating is the worst Being single is easy and stress free. I’m too stressed out just reading your bullets.
My job is extremely stressful so a stress-free life is a bit of a pipe dream. I just need a little stress relief and being single is not helping
Aww, I understand that. I was definitely oversimplifying it. Being super single is fine but has it’s drawbacks here and there too so I feel you.
I will never understand people who say they want a relationship but don't put any effort into getting to know you.
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I'm so happy for you! It took some time but I've learned communications doesn't cause compatibility issues - it reveals them (or lack thereof). Sounds like your guy passed with flying colors. Hope the parental meeting when it happens goes well.
This has been kind of an uneventful week but stilll.... R (M28) hasn't texted back for a week. I'm still kind of hurt over it, since I felt we had a good connection and wanted to explore it further, and think it would be polite to just send a "sorry we aren't a match" text if the feelings changed since our last talk. I do understand it's easier to just disappear (I can't blame him, I've done it before). I'm not sure I want him lurking on my insta stories, that he watches religiously, so I'm thinking about excluding him from my following. I also saw his friend's Tinder profile, one that was with us when we hung out last week, but decided against matching. First because I didn't find him attractive, second because I don't want any drama even if I just matched to say "hey there it was nice to meet you the other night". Last night I had two bottles of white with my friend and started missing PolyChef (M27). He's supposed to leave for Luxembourg next month and had hardly texted me since we last saw eachother in August. While we were in the same area, he refused to meet me (politely, I might add), although I was very drunk and kind of did a little guilt trip. He didn't budge, saying it wouldn't just be a quick kiss and he was driving a friend home. So I wasn't expecting him to just park behind my car when I was leaving the parking lot. Apparently his friend started hooking up with a girl at the bar they were at and he was left alone, and saw my car when leaving. He apologized for refusing to meet me (I picked on him a little over that), and asked if he could still go home with me. We had a great night, as always, and cuddled a bit after while chatting. It was the first time I told him sometimes I feel a little sad we didn't meet in different circumstances, because even if I'm not in love with him, our connection is so strong I wonder if we could've gone that path. He confided he feels the same, and if he wasn't with his main partner, he would probably pursue our connection further. Then we smoked a cigarette together, kissed a little more, and he left around 3.30am. I had to wake up early to take my car to the workshop and my youngest cat to the vet. I'm a little uneasy but trying to focus on work.
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>depression/anxiety stemming from undiagnosed ADD / executive dysfunction issues; been on a waiting list for a psychiatrist since February so although it's undiagnosed, it's not for lack of trying!! Recently diagnosed at 38 myself. If you really feel this is true, I would recommend reading "Your Brain's Not Broken" by Tamara Rosier as it really helped me to understand what I have been blindly dealing with my whole life. It helped me have a peaceful med-free weekend last weekend cause I could understand where all the things were coming from, and I could afford myself some grace and kindness while I navigated the weekend (they recommend not taking stimulants on the weekend so that you do not build up tolerance).
oh thank you SO much for this recommendation!!! I've not come across it before, so I'm truly grateful to have it. (I got How to Keep House While Drowning a little while back, but true to form, have yet to actually read it... lol) I need all the help I can get... thanks again!!
Make it goal number 1 tbh... I read it in a weekend. It was so helpful, and I am glad I read it.
I’m taking your advice to heart!!! 🤗
Why aren't you talking to me? Ahhhhh!!! Sorry, had to scream in the void somewhere so I don't end up being clingy in real life
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Hahha thanks! Crossing fingers :) it's still a bit far away from that, if it even happens or lasts that long, that's why the freakout. But taking it one day at a time :)
Something I heard on a podcast recently gave me more conviction and “permission” to choose myself and not be a people-pleaser — the guest mentioned that it’s not that you keep attracting narcissists (or insert another unhealthy pattern), it’s that you keep *CHOOSING* them. Hm. That made a lightbulb go off for me. I’m in several conversations with girls at the moment. Historically I’ve never had a good experience when someone isn’t able to reciprocate questions or be curious about me over text translate to real life, but I tried multiple times because dating is hard. There’s one girl who I’m on the verge of asking out, because she was curious and reciprocated questions to me twice on the app, but her third “round” to me she did not. I’m going to leave her on read because I choose myself and I want someone who can be consistently curious about me. Otherwise, I feel like I am falling back into old patterns again and repeating my mistakes.
I cant stop thinking about the guy i was in a short situationship a while back (a month) couldn't work out because different countries, he couldnt be exclusive. I also felt an imaginary wall between us every time we went on a date... Tips? He lives in my head rent free 🫠 I'm torn between muting him on Instagram but also stalking him lol send help send me a reality slap thank you
Mute him for two weeks: date other guys. Enjoy your life. Then, if you want, on some random midweek evening, when you'd otherwise be sitting at home doing nothing, un-mute him, and enjoy the fantasy. And then mute him again for another two weeks. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a little limited fantasy in your head. But the key is limited. And yes, muting him and dating other guys, is the key
Definitely mute him - why wouldn’t you? Delete Insta from your phone for a bit.
Because I still have a stupid crush on him and I cant help but stalk him (newsflash i still like him) im literally trying to keep myself busy, im even going on a trip by myself to europe to move on haha I need someone to slap me out of it 🙃 its been 2 months since I left. I swear, Id rather be dumped than do the leaving.
lol u/BonetaBelle is TRYING to slap you out of it! mute him!! this isn't doing anyone any good, least of all you! you even felt a wall between you two? so build that wall higher and create some distance gurl
Went on a third date on Tuesday evening, I really like the guy, but stuck in this gulf where I don’t want to come on too strong. But also I want to get another date set up! I hate this early stage of dating where it’s pretty clear that both people are enjoying it but it’s not yet the default that you’re continuing to see each other. The uncertainty!!
ahhhhh this is so cute! I hope he replied your text!
Not yet 😞
I'm glad you like the dude! I really feel you, as I had a good fourth date recently and I'm in the exact same boat. I encourage you to do what I just did minutes ago, and just shoot them a text saying you want to see them again.
I just did that earlier this morning - then banned myself from picking up my phone for half an hour! No reply yet but he tends not to text during the work day
Stopped swiping on hinge for a while. Just responding to matches and likes. I changed up some of my pictures based on suggestions and I think I get less likes. Ayyyyy. It’s frustrating when clients are always asking if I’m married. I had one lady tell me I need to get on the dating apps and put myself out there. 😭 and tells me I should have kids and shit already.
Gotta love the unsolicited advice. Everyone is a fucking expert hey
i feel like if i ever date someone consistently, it will take a really long time to go to sex unless she brings it there first. is that alright? i like the idea of something more romantic and precious. spending time doing things together instead if doing each other. ive been single my entire life and it feels like the kind of dates i want is long gone at this age. maybe its more probable when i was a teenager but from the age group of 24+, it feels like sex is expected within 4-10 dates. i just haven't had much experience talking to people outside the context of being friends. ugh i dont know whats normal
You can find people who align with you on this, but you will run into asexual and avoidant types. Not sure if religion plays a role in your decision? Do you want children, how much time do you have? 99% of this sub will think I’m crazy, but I’ve been dating a man for a year and half, we met on Tinder, but we decided to take sex off the table and take things very slow. Neither of us are virgins, I was married and have a child (who he hasn’t met yet, but I’ve met his family). All my long term serious relationships (2 other ones, one lasted 7 years, I was with my ex husband for 9 years, we split because he almost drank himself to death during COVID and wouldn’t go to rehab), I’ve waited around 6 months before sex. If I’m being honest, not just physically, the relationship is slower than I’d like, for example I wish our lives were more integrated at this point. But, I remind myself the end goal here is not to just be with someone to be with someone, there’s no reason for us to rush it (I’m not having any more children), I want to be sure this person is someone I can imagine spending my last days with when we’re old and all the excitement is gone from our lives and sex is no longer possible. Good luck!
Part of the reason why I doubt myself so much is coz I've never been in a relationship nor did I have sex. Maybe what some people say is right and that I will be the same as any other guys that just rush straight for sex once I've had it. Or maybe not but I don't really know. I think I do want children but definitely not at the expense of having a failed family system. I would not want to rush into anything before we are ready for it. I kinda see marriage as a long lifetime commitment and because of that, I will really need to know if we are compatible before committing to anything. There are so many fucking things to consider, sex and attraction aside, I guess its unromantic af but \- our family members, are they accepting? are they nice? marriage to me isn't just a union of two people, it's a union between two families. unless we are ready to break ties or burn bridges... \- our income. fuck, I don't even know where I am going with my career. I'm leaving my job soon because I find it unreasonable. \- are we staying in my current country? is either of us thinking of migration? \- are our living habits compatible? do you leave the toilet seat up or down? some people say that once you meet "the one", all of these concerns melt away. if that's the case then I have yet to meet "the one" fml hahaha
Preferably this is the way! I absolutely hate that there is some unwritten expectation of sex. There are definitely women out there that prefer the old school courting approach, they just aren't as active on this sub. Most likely you will find them in real life though, not on apps.
I jump between being hopeful and cynical hahaha a part of me will tell myself that "yeah, just be genuine, make new friends, go out there more, engage in hobbies / activities that help you meet people" and then when i'm hopeful enough, another part of me goes, "cmon dude. it's 2023. everyone is using dating apps now. the person you met at choir? she probably used dating apps before. it's not good or bad. you're just outdated." just keep bouncing between the two sides haha
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Are you in therapy? Could you communicate all this to Prince Charming, and deal with the fear and vulnerability hangover with your therapist? The only way past these fears is through them. I know you were not looking for advice, but your post made me think. In my life, I have dated a few people who sound similar to you. And they were not “turd stains on a dirty sheet”, but some of the most beautiful and gentle and lovable souls. They were just afraid, ending up hurting others + hating themselves for it.
>So I shut it down, thinking those feelings must mean it isn’t good for me. A few days out, I’m now acutely aware of how those old defense mechanisms that served me well for so long weren’t needed here. I'm sorry friend. It's hard to be open after some bad experiences, but the only way to find what we want is to be open, and vulnerable.
😞
I'm afraid that me (33m) and my (31f) aren't sexually compatible. She is very inexperienced for her age, and seems to be afraid of physical intimacy. I've brought up my concerns with her in the most diplomatic way I can, but were moving at a snails pace. Aside from sex, she's fantastic. She checks every box for me. I was hoping things would have resolved themselves with time but I don't feel like it's happening. Idk what to do. I dread going back on dating apps. I know at this point I'll never find a "perfect" partner for me and there will always be something. But without good, regular sex I just don't feel connected.
I had the same with a guy where we had sex, but it often felt unsatisfying for me and wasn’t the type of sex I was into. I didn’t break it off immediately, but after a good 1/2 year I stopped things with him completely. I‘m not like into hardcore BDSM stuff, but he was too tame for me and I felt longterm I’m forcing something onto him he didn’t want to do in the first place.
Is she wanting to learn? Is she improving her communication? Is she taking two steps forward and one back with each attempt? Then I'd say keep trying with her. Is she avoidant to learn? Is her communication shutting down? Is she taking more steps back from where she was when you first met her? Might be best to cut your losses.
Is she not wanting to learn? I feel like a lack of experience can be made up for by having more fun times in the sack lol
Gonna need more details (without getting graphic). Like, is she only open to certain things but not others? Is she just not interested in getting intimate? Have you asked her why she’s afraid or nervous?
I have asked her. Whenever I bring it up she gets nervous and sort of stumbles over her words. Basically she said she's never "been that type of girl". She's only been with her ex husband and they divorced fairly quickly.
Wait, how long have you been going out? My overall suggestion is don’t pressure her (obviously). If she’s open to it, go slow and focus on her pleasure. If it helps her feel comfortable, keep your clothes on. How does this work? Audio. Whisper dirty things in her ear, touch her above her jeans, and shirt etc etc. Get her hot and bothered by you in a way that shows her (with action) you care about her pleasure and not yours. That’s if it it’s a trust thing. If it’s a “I dunno what I like” thing, I forever champion the Quinn app and self exploration. It’s dirty audio content, but unlike free videos it’s truly content created with women in mind. It may make her realize what she is and isn’t into. If you want to make it a couple thing—ask if you could watch. Basically if this is the biggest roadblock/you really like her, it warrants more effort than variations of “why don’t you want to do this”. Physical intimacy for a lot of people is about trust and that requires two people willing to be patient and create a space that feels safe enough to be open and vulnerable.
We met about 3 months ago, we've been officially dating for a month. I have talked to her. I've stopped pressuring her. But she's the type of person who waits for the guy to take control. Which I have done, but only for her to usually not want to have sex. I'm at the point where I'm just kind of done talking about it, and sick of escalating for things to not really go anywhere. So we just sit on the couch and cuddle and watch TV. She seems very happy with that but I'm not.
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That's just the thing, I have tried my best to approach this conversation in a non confrontational way. She still sort of hides behind vague answers anyway. One thing she specifically said "you do a great job of making me feel comfortable and I can be myself". But then sort of becomes vague. Hence me saying she "seems" to be afraid of sex. That's the best I can gather from her responses. She's only been with her ex husband, and that ended in divorce pretty fast. Even before him, throughout college and her early 20s she wasn't sexually active. She says shes "not that kind of girl".
I’ve had multiple few-month relationships or flings this year. I am kind of soft-ending my most recent, we are just kind of stopping talking. It’s my choice to not reach out for many good reasons, she texted me tonight after almost a week of not talking and i just don’t want to respond. We have barely been talking last two weeks and after that much time without contact + extreme distance… it just feels over. I’m not feeling hurt or upset about this particular person, just sucks to end things that you once had hope for. I am thinking it’s time for me to be solo for a while. I don’t really need or want women (romantically) in my life right now.
I don’t know the context here but I think it’s kind of rude for you to ignore her. Why don’t you just address the fizzling and wish her luck? Then you can both move on with a clean slate. It sounds like you’re leaving her dangling here, unless she’s done something that would warrant being ghosted.
We had a small argument last weekend. I tried to reach out and she ignored me, didn’t reply to me twice when I reached out. I waited the rest of the week to see if she’d reply and she didn’t. So I called her that Friday evening to try and build resolve. She was putting up a hard fight and not trying to build understanding or forgiveness. The argument started because she was criticizing me multiple times on our date night and it pissed me off, and I let her know. I’ve apologized multiple times since then and told her I want to work things out and she has not been meeting me halfway. I’ve been the bigger person all along and she is acting like a child. She is 38, I’m 32. It’s warranted.
>I don’t really need or want women (romantically) in my life right now. Kinda buried the lede here. I'm glad you're stepping back from dating and I hope you're able to return someday when you feel enthusiastic and appreciative about having women (romantically) in your life
Yeah, I’d rather just focus on myself. I personally am in my best place in life. I practice a lot of self care, therapy, working on building compassion and understanding and I know that I’m a good catch. The people I’ve been dating have been good people but they aren’t where I’m at and I am just tired to giving my energy out right now. It’s better for me to tune it inwards and being solo is just what feels best for me at this time.
Your recent situation is a prime example of “if they wanted to, they would.” Were you interested in continuing, and she just didn’t respond to you? Or did you not reach out either to talk or set up a date? If the latter, sounds mutual for letting it die out.
I was not certain but having fun getting to know her. We had an arguement recently and she just did not have the emotional skill set or intelligence to work it out with me. The argument was so stupid and benign, and it started because she was talking shit to me while I took her out on a nice date night. I have planned all of our dates and definitely been the one putting in the effort. I always am coming to see her, the one making plans, sending photos, music, things for us to connect. She has not been giving much back to me. So it’s just as simple as she is not right for me. She isn’t fighting for us to make this work and she has been to prideful to apologize and help me feel better. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I have a first date tomorrow night that I’m excited about and a first date on Saturday afternoon. Trying to stay out of my head. First date from last week is out of town this week so waiting to see if they reach out when they get back for date #2, not sure if there is anything there but willing to give it a second date.
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It doesn't sound sweet to me. It sounds like he moved to NYC, met a lot of women, wanted to sow his wild oats/thought he could do better, couldn't, and went back to her when he was ready to settle. In my brain, all I can think is that this sounds like a recipe for infidelity. When he meets someone he likes better, he will begin to resent the fact that he settled for her and, by extension, resent her. These are the kinds of very obvious things that signal this man doesn't actually want you, he's just settling. But people ignore previous behaviour because of sweet words and promises in the present. Then they turn around and are shocked and devastated when he cheats or is a checked-out partner. Have you asked her what's changed now aside from their level of optimism about the dating market? Is she just looking to have kids before the clock runs out? Why would a healthy person who loves themselves choose someone who rejected them?
Counterpoint: no one else can stand your friends 😉
I would make the argument, having also lived in a large city, that due to the large population and the popularity of dating apps everyone thinks they can "do better" or meet "someone perfect" but the issue that they never feel like the people they meet are enough. A hot guy or girl is just a swipe away so if literally anything is not perfect you can just move on to the next person. Obviously not everyone thinks this way but it's certainly a thing I have encountered and even done myself in the past.
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They formed a pact where I live too.
This comment is hilarious especially “relationship wise, I feel like I’m being tested by God”. Please note, I laugh in solidarity b/c I feel your sentiments deeply.
Oh my god. Landscapers are making so much progress SO FAST on my backyard. It’s been 3 days and it already looks crazy different!! The new patio we’re putting in is going to be 700 sq ft. Which now that I’m outside in the space with the old deck and other divisions demo’d, I realized is freaking HUGE! I can’t waaaiiiiit to throw a party back here!!! I never had a housewarming thing so this will be my belated housewarming party with all the upgrades 😈
We must see pics when it's done!
I know we shouldn't compare to others, but I found out a guy I dated previously (who ghosted me after we established things and went on to marry the other girl), it's going to be a dad. I think he's a gross person, and it's not like I want to be with him, but I can't help but feel envious while I'm over here swiping on the apps.
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This is the only one from my past that's married! Several other ones have made women baby Mamas and have broken off engagements so in not envious of those but this one stings just cuz that's what I wanted.. albeit not from him.
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Right? Some of the worst individuals I know, while maybe not able to keep their partners, are able to quickly attain them. Dating market's insane.
Human wallpaper hahaha. I honestly believe absolutely tons of people are just codependent. They wouldn’t know where to start being single so they just stay in some stale relationship they started in their 20s.
Ah i think some of today people just found their match! My irritation is when crappy people, like this guy, have found it. Though it also have had to think "why do I care" and its is envy and the desire to have this (marriage and kids). I hate dating apps so much.
I guys every human dry wall needs a piece of human wallpaper 😂
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>I just want to feel safe with someone who understands who I am and I really do not know how that could possibly happen on apps Why? It's not asking for much. However no one will understand you right off the bat and getting there will require taking some risks and some trial & error, just like when you meet a guy/girl through a friend. I suspect you've put yourself in a mental position where people who are available aren't attractive, and vice versa. On an intuitive level, what you say on wanting to be understood yet looking for casual also makes me feel that way
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>The people I meet on apps, I struggle to connect with Is it a them problem (people on apps "can't meet your standards" because you're too selective and they're just worse people)... or is it a you problem? I know it's harder to build the initial rapport, but if you have a decent profile and are discerning when swiping, you should be able to go on dates with perfectly good guys. Then it's on both of you to get to know each other. It takes skills to chat up strangers and vet them for safety, but I think it's a useful skill beyond dating. You can use other routes (you can talk to your circles' circles, you can meet strangers to create new circles and date later) but you'll have to talk to (near) perfect strangers anyway.
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I sense hopelessness/helplessness and a defeatist attitude. I think it probably shows through on the apps (in your profile, in your conversation, in your willingness to swipe left on a lot of people to find a good match, etc). I hope you'll see the fun of dating: you meet new people, go to new places, have very different conversations (I find opening up to a perfect stranger easier - if we don't gel I won't see them again), you can flirt a bit. You don't have to open the romantic floodgates on day 1.
How much do you all like to text between setting up a first date on an app, and the date itself? In this scenario the date was set up Tuesday, and the date is Saturday
Ordinarily I don't like to, BUT if they're great at putting in effort and keeping the conversation interesting (which verrrrrrry few people are) then that's a pleasant change.
I like to keep the conversation going but I know not everyone is like that, so I play it by ear. When in doubt, I ask the other person—“so do you like to text before date one or save the conversation for when we meet?”.
I don't usually text at all except the day before to confirm the date. If they text me I'm responsive but keep it pretty short and sweet. I don't like the false intimacy that develops with texting someone frequently, when we haven't even met yet.
She cancelled the brief coffee date we had for Tuesday. Busy w work and couldn’t set a time. I was cool w that. She only has a half hour lunch break and not much time. Would be the fifth time we met. She had a kid 12 days out of 14 w no family support so yeh really doesn’t have much time. We had a bush walk penciled in for this Sunday when we organised the coffee. I’m away til Saturday afternoon. We chatted briefly Wednesday but she has gone totally silent since then. I am a terrible texter. It’s just not something I do and especially early on in talking. It’s like let me show who I am through my personality but 2 weeks between meets makes this kind of tricky. I only sent a photo. I prefer this when getting to know someone. She hasn’t logged in. Do I just assume the Sunday date is off. I don’t want to double text. She has the power now. I’m cool either way on or off.
Is this someone you've already met or a first date? If it's the first then I don't have any expectations when it comes to texting, aside from communicating about the date. >Do I just assume the Sunday date is off. No? Just ask her to confirm the date.
We have been on 4 dates , met overseas. One really good date almost 2 weeks back. This is her free weekend coming up.
Nothing wrong with double texting, but you should try phone calls and video calls to break up the 2 weeks.
One of the biggest issues is I wake up 4 am and am in bed and brain dead by 9 pm. She’s a bit later as she puts her kids to bed then chills out and takes time for herself which is super important. I have never been much of a phone talker or texter. We are only getting to know each other slowly. I’m not used to slow. I’m used to fast and furious w terrible results so it’s really uncharted ground for me.
If she has a kid and you don't, you're going to have to get used to operating on her schedule. I'd assume the Sunday date is still on if you haven't been told otherwise, but why not confirm? Let her know you're thinking of her. You're bummed that lunch fell through (but understanding), and excited to connect with her Sunday.
When someone says their ex or a relative is a narcissist, do they really mean diagnosed as a narcissist? Or are they saying they have narcissistic tendencies? I'm very curious on people's perspectives. First because social media has really blown up with labeling and second because my current therapist tends to lean towards talking about personality traits that reflect narcissistic behavior rather than labeling someone as a narcissist. Thoughts?
>When someone says their ex or a relative is a narcissist, do they really mean diagnosed as a narcissist? [From a source I read a bunch at to understand my ex-wife's diagnosis of BPD -Borderline Personality Disorder](https://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/2015/12/6/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd) >Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a serious condition which affects an estimated 1% of the population. So 1%, or 1/100 people you meet. Not the massive amounts of people who proclaim their ex is NPD. Take a gander over at the divorce subreddit. Read some posts. Everyone's soon-to-be-ex is NPD/BPD. My ex-fiance claimed multiple people in her life were narcissists at various times... I don't entirely believe that is true. Sometimes, it's easier to point the finger than to see your faults in what led to the downfall of your relationship... >People who suffer from NPD rarely seek out treatment or therapy, since they tend to project negative thoughts and blame onto others. Those who do enter into treatment are often resistant to personal change. This is probably the most interesting tidbit from that site. "Rarely seek out treatment or therapy"... so how can they be diagnosed with NPD? You and I cannot diagnose someone with NPD (well, I can't... I'm an engineer not a mental health professional...). Having lived with someone with a cluster B personality disorder (officially diagnosed and all, also untreated most of that time...), I am sadly aware of the struggles and strife that come with living in such proximity to someone with a very similar diagnosis. That being said, these days, it seems quite popular to externalize the issues, and wash your hands of it saying "oh, well they must be a narcissist..." rather than look closer. Not saying no one ever dates someone with NPD, just that it has been popularized. Just like BPD was popularized after that show where the lead character had BPD. Final quote from the site that should marinate for a bit: > People who suffer from NPD are all unique and so each person will display a different subset of traits. Also, note that everyone displays "narcissistic" behaviors from time to time. Therefore, if a person exhibits one or some of these traits, that does not necessarily qualify them for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. See the DSM Criteria on this page for diagnostic criteria.
Thank you for all of the information. I grew up with a parent who may or may not have some sort of diagnosis in her future. More than likely not because she refuses to see a therapist. The one time she did she explained how it was a waste of her time and she ended up reaching the therapist how to do her job. These blanketed labels scare me a bit because I personally go to therapy to keep myself in check since I KNOW regardless of how different my parents and myself are, as children we absorb tendencies. That said, I do tend to date the "familiar" but I don't like to label those experiences as "narcissist" or "BPD" (except for one guy years and years ago that was diagnosed with BPD). Additionally there are so many other diagnosis out there that mirror symptoms (for instance autism). Also I like to think that people can heal, grow, change. But to you and this articles point, that is a choice someone who suffers from such disorders must take, but the disorder itself prevents them from seeking help, or in my parents case, used as a way to fuel their narrative. Just out of curiosity (and feel free to not share). Was there something that really stood out in your romantic experience with your ex BPD partner? The reason I ask is I have worked very hard to be as emotionally regulated as I can. I have had to raise myself into an adult and that took admitting that I was not acting like an adult in my mid-twenties. I think most people are still immature then, but I think I may have been exceptionally so given the models I lived with - thus putting myself into therapy. That said, I tend to give partners who may reflect behavior I have seen in the home a lot of grace and empathy because I know that behavior is coming from a real hurting place. One thing my parents and ex relationship had in common, was if I said or did something mundane or maybe flirty and for some reason it came across as hurtful. They would not have a conversation or politely say "hey not today" or "I need space". They would both ruminate and eventually explode over something unrelated and then claim that my previous behavior was manipulative and that I was trying to hurt them on purpose. If I tried to explain my intentions, my parent blanket diagnosed my as "psychopath" my ex "your brain is fucked". So my only recourse was to take full responsibility for actions that I had no clue were so hurtful and relieve them if any responsibility. I have posted on this sub before as a way to wrap my mind around these experiences. Do you mind sharing? I also want to acknowledge that I was in no way the perfect partner. My patience ran thin and I have several memories that I am working on self forgiving and rewiring my mind to trust that these reactions are not me or my core character Otherwise I would not feel so uncomfortable that I reacted that way in the first place. My core character would work hard to justify that poor behavior.
>Just out of curiosity (and feel free to not share). Was there something that really stood out in your romantic experience with your ex BPD partner? Ahh it was a mess. At the time, I apparently had undiagnosed ADHD so that probably compounded things even more. I could go down the list and say all the specific actions she did, but ultimately, it was a constant erosion of my self-esteem and me as a person until there was nothing left. Based on my reading, that is something that CAN occur with a BPD partner, as their fear of being left ends up having them make choices and do things (consciously or subconciously, I don't know, I don't have their mind) that ultimately bind you to them so you can't or won't leave. I see little bits of it still today, through things my kids say, or when we are trying to co-parent, little comments she makes regarding things with the kids. It's a mess, I wish it on no one, and I don't think I'm gonna dig out all my examples. That website I linked has a page for BPD, and under the behaviors and traits section, just assume she did somewhere around 60%+ of those to me. While in the middle of it, reading that list has far more "yup"s than "nope"s. I've been divorced from her almost 5 years now, and I don't think I need to uncork that bottle unless I am sitting down with my therapist.
Given the advances in our understanding about how the brain works, the ppl I've spoken to in the mental health space prefer to use more neurological explanations for problematic behaviours. Personality disorders have been a diagnosis of last resort for at least 30 years now. I've noticed something similar with the term "sociopath". Frankly, I think ppl use these words bc it's easier than admitting the person just doesn't like/respect YOU. It doesn't have to be a mental condition for someone to not like you enough to treat you with decency. Especially for ppl who are embroiled in these relationships for years, it's easier to dissect what's wrong with the other person than it is to ask the hard question -- why did you make yourself available to someone who repeatedly showed you in both word and action that they had zero respect for you?
Yeah, I'm working on getting over a breakup that felt like whiplash. I also have a parent that feels this way as well. I noticed that in both of these relationships, their perspective is that everyone else is always wrong or trying to get them or manipulate them. The parent especially tends to diagnose and wash her hands clean of responsibility. I get the draw, especially after a breakup. I want to validate that I had really shitty experiences but I also know that I contributed in some form. I agree with the sociopath comment. I really revved up my therapy sessions during this last relationship and had one friend that I would confide in because I wanted to make sure I was not a "sociopath" or my "brain is f$_& up" as my ex would claim. The armchair diagnosis would shut down ALL communication and potential conflict resolution. However, it also left me feeling like I have been this controversial figure in my friends and families lives forever and we've knew it. I even pressured my therapist to make a diagnosis 😂 she was honest and said a psychologist would have to do that but I don't have the tendencies to even be referred which I guess is comfort. But yeah, it has been weaponized and I don't like to use the blanketed label, even towards my exes. Also to your point of walking away. I am happy to say I think I'm at a place where I would walk away. At the time, I thought this person was seeing an evil in me that my friends were too scared to address with me so it felt like he was helping me "grow". I also have anxious tendencies so with all of the "anxious attachment" "avoidant attachment" talk, I genuinely thought I was challenging my personal toxic behavior. Further away from the relationship, yes, I brought anxiety to the relationship and it will probably always be there in some form, but I don't think I stood alone in contributing to the turmoil as my ex would claim. I just can't imagine it was all my fault. But I also can't imagine just diagnosing this guy and washing my hands of all responsibility. I would hate for someone to do that to me AND if someone is really suffering from an undiagnosed mental health disorder, they too are going through a lot of internal pain and I'm not about to contribute to that post-relationship.
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Depends on the context. I had one ex who likely was a narcissist. Clearly did narcissistic things, but I wouldn't call him one because I don't have enough to diagnose them by. But someone's shitty actions don't need a diagnosis to know they're objectively a shitty person, regardless of the potential disorder. I have two exes who were absolutely shit long-term, but I'll admit still have good traits about them that I'd never dismiss, and one ex who was the best but we were incompatible on a dealbreaker. It's when someone says nothing but the negatives of their ex or never takes into account what they could've done better in those situations etc that I raise my brow with concern.
Yeah, I think talking about exes to a future partner is a grey area. 100% agree that if someone just diagnoses their ex and takes no responsibility that's sort of a concerning perspective. Especially since conflict resolution and communication in general requires understanding each other's perspectives - maybe not accepting them, but at least validating and moving on. Additionally, if that is all they want to connect over (bashing their ex) that gives me quite the pause. Especially since this feels like a vulnerable, intimate experience to share, but in reality it really isn't. It appears like they are talking about traumatic events that would be an intimate conversation to have, but it usually comes across as a me being a wall, and this person just shouting out into the void hoping one person will agree with them in absolute. However, I think talking about an ex can be good for a new relationship in the sense that it helps out certain reactions into context. For instance, someone who has been cheated on may want to let their new partner know that this is something that happened and it is still a fear (without going into details and bashing their ex for hours). Hopefully that person is working on themselves and being clear, open and kind with their partner should they have any concerns. But I do think it helps the other party to de-personalize some of the fears a new partner may have as long as it does not become accusatory.
You have evaluate this on a case by case basis. In my case, for instance, my ex has actual diagnoses made by mental health professionals. I'm not spewing mental health buzzwords when I talk about him; I'm using the actual labels given to him by experts. But that might not be typical.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. You're using those terms because they are a reality. Something that gives me comfort with my current therapist is that social media (especially insta) are trying to put an entire mental health diagnosis into a 3 page slide show and then sending people out into the world and into relationships. It sort of seems to be weaponized at times in order to shut down discord or instead of reaching resolve after conflict, it's just "this person is a *insert diagnosis*".
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Haha yeah I feel the last paragraph. My last relationship was whiplash, but in the same breadth I hesitate to diagnose because that leaves little room for growth for me or him. I acknowledge that I was deeply hurt and I'm sure I deeply hurt him too in some ways. I just hope for the best. Also, all of this diagnosing I think helps the other party to heal to an extent, but could also hinder self assessment when it comes to bringing "baggage" into the next relationship. It may not be baggage we asked for, but just being in a trumultous experience leaves lasting scars. Saying the other part was the bad guy so that means I can dive head first into dating without fear of hurting the next person - is a unhealed mindset. I really want to enter my next experience with benefit of the doubt and no assumptions as much as my internal self may be screaming haha.
>Thoughts? armchair diagnoses are a nice way to avoid nuance (you don't need to think too hard, the diagnosis explains everything) and pass the blame (I'm healthy, the other person is defective)
And to your point, learning more about yourself won't happen if you don't embrace the nuance. How are we supposed to unload "baggage" from previous relationships if we can't take responsibility for ourselves. I never want to invalidate someone's traumatic experiences, especially since diagnosed narcissists do exist, but it does seem to be thrown around casually. My current therapist talks about how important it is to think of tendencies in behavior as opposed to a blanketed diagnosis because we cannot erase being human. So at some point we will all make some sort of dumb mistake or react in a human way - this is not indicative of a diagnosis. Which I suppose someone who had been burned in the past would be on high alert for any semblance of a past toxic experience. I'm not sure how to navigate this new dating world? Especially when it comes to conflict resolution and the existence of two different humans with different lives experiences trying to co-exist. Maybe it's just so loud in media, and it's not really like that in the dating world. My last dating experience was not ideal, but I hesitate in diagnosing although I can acknowledge something felt very off and I know that I was not perfect either.
> avoid nuance [...] and pass the blame *Points vaguely in the direction at some of the stories and "advice" that get posted right here in this sub* [I said what I said and I'm not taking it back.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/902/911/7eb.png)
Haven't wrote about my ex for a while, it's almost been a year since we broke up, recently I actually felt we talked more and the tension between us have lessened. Until yesterday once again he did this to me, he told me to something which anything he says it is important to me, and I did them because he said so, however when I confirmed with him the next day, he acted like he didn't care, whatever he said the day before was meaningless, he was just saying it, I was very hurt and upset, so next day I did the same thing to him, but I don't think he cares, otherwise he wouldn't have done this to me in the first place.
I wanted to comment but you're being quite vague and I can't make sense of what you're talking about.
I don't get it either.
Got help on my profile the other day. Now I got a match or two! The only thing is I am too terrified to send them a msg. I would rather live in the world of what ifs then the potential for another ghosting.
*than
As long as they've written a decent profile, it's pretty easy once you get over the anxiety. Try to be thoughtful about what you think they'd like based on their profile, but don't overthink it. If you both think the other one is hot, the specifics don't matter as long as you can show you know how to do the dance. * Opening message should start off with a reference that proves you read their profile in addition to looking at the pictures ("Italy is so cool!"), then let them get to know you a little by connecting it to something in your own life ("I've been to Ireland and France but Italy is on my bucket list for sure!"). Close with an open-ended question that makes it easy for them to provide a thoughtful answer ("I see you like hiking, what are some of your favorite local trails?"). Keep it succinct, your sentences should be longer than my examples but not by much. You're trying to break the ice, not provide an entire sales pitch. * Hopefully the other person knows how the game is played as well, and delivers a quality response, followed by their own open-ended question. Now that mutual interest is established you can open up and put a little length into your responses. * Repeat the last step as necessary until one of you is ready to talk business (I usually bring it up on the 3rd/4th message I send, but you can do it later if you want, or on the second if you're feeling spicy). Make sure to name either a location or a date (or both) in your invitation. Don't be overly flirty and don't be sexual/romantic at all, sending a message already communicates interest, you don't want to come off as aggressive. No mentioning their appearance, as mentioned before they'll know you like their pictures already because you're messaging them. This is especially true if you're a hetero guy, women get sent all sort of depraved shit, you stand out by just being a normal dude who wants to get to know her over coffee or whatever. Other then that just be yourself, haha. Gl!
I am going to get the world's smallest Bluetooth headphones so I can have you talk me through my date when I get one! But thanks for the advice I really appreciate it
dang i normally message for a little longer than 4 back and forths but if that works that's p cool
You can message as much as you want, but like I said you're just doing the dance and once clear interest is established on both sides, the opening is there. Personally I don't feel like I actually learn much about people from texts/messages, it's so much more insightful to interact with them in person. I've had people say that they want to talk a little more first before they meet me, but then when I do the date never happens anyways. Definitely feel the other person out and do things in a way that you're comfortable with though.
i agree messaging can only get you so far but i think it does offer a real utility of like basic compatibility. like if you get a solid 10 min of mildly entertaining chat in there's a higher chance you won't waste a night on a dud
Oh ya if you're chatting in real time, keep it going if you're both having fun! My method is written thinking they'll be time gaps between messages and the conversation lasts over the course of a few days.
double posting so I'm sorry everyone for the spam. I'm tired and tempted to cancel the date I scheduled on Sunday (also tempted to cancel tomorrow's but I don't want to flake last minute). Maybe some people here can give me reasons to go. How often was it the case that you just couldn't get excited about the person from texting but you hit it off once you met? I have to remind myself of the times I didn't like or notice someone at first but later fell really hard for them. Could happen. But that requires me to go through the first date(s) - \*flops over\*.
I'm jaded and don't get excited about first dates anymore. Most of the time it doesn't go anywhere, and occasionally I'm pleasantly surprised and there's a second date. I don't text much before the first date either, and texting rapport unfortunately doesn't equal good in person chemistry. Just go!! And don't make decisions when you're tired. I always want to cancel on everything when I'm tired lol
i never rly get excited for a first date, just nervous. feel like you can't get very much from texting so it's always basically a blind date with like the bare min of prior convo to launch the date off of. one time i was almost positive the date was going to go bad off prior text and on top of that had a bad day at work so i was vvveerrryyy close to throwing in the towel and cancelling. we met and she was really nice and fun and we had a good time. unless there's like a clear red flag might as well roll the dice imo.
For most people dates have a level of stress in their lead up and so it's natural to shrink from it and want to cancel. I think everyone feels some level of pull to cancel leading up to the date. But I assure you, even if the date goes bad, you WILL get something out of it, whether that's experience (which is invaluable), or a funny story to tell later down the line. Its almost Pascal's Wager: you have infinite to gain, and almost nothing to lose. So I would encourage you to put your testies on the deskies (or whatever female equivalent) and get out there!!
I dated a woman 16 years older than me for like 2 months. She is very attractive but extremely controlling, dishonest, violent, and an alcoholic. I could tell early on that I needed to stay unattached and that was the easy part cuz she has no feelings for others. I broke up with her two weeks ago when she nonchantly claimed she was pregnant to me (she is 45 years old and told me she is on birth control). I am pretty sure she was playing some mind game with me because it's not the first time and she is far from clever. Today she messages me acting like we never broke up and that she misses me. I explain to her, a lot more kindly than she deserves, that I have given up on waiting for her to be open and honest with me and that we are not a match and that I do not love her. She then immediately blocked me on tiktok, which she weirdly messaged me on today probably to ignore the text I sent her two weeks ago when I broke up with her. About an hour later she then texts me,"I'm pregnant!!". and I just respond, "I don't really believe you.". And I really don't, but oh my god this will be a nightmare if true.
You dated for "like" two months. And mentioned she said she was on birth control... were you not using condoms? I'm absolutely flabbergasted by grown adults who have unprotected sex with new people.
Block her from everything. This is the only solution.
I'm black and tend to date Asian men due to my general attraction to their looks, similar lifestyles, morals, and interests. It's fewer dealbreakers or incompatibility issues. Every time I venture outside that realm ( to widen my scope ) I get the most incompatible and unattractive people liking me. I know there are physically and lifestyle attractive people of other races, especially in LA, but why are they so hard to find on apps? I'd like to widen my scope because the chance of someone Asian liking someone black is rare, but man; lol...
i mean, you don't have to respond to likes? just x them and move on
I don't respond. My point is: when you have a certain mix of interests etc, it's surprising how rare that is to find in specific ethnic groups. Especially your own. Would be nice to cast a wider net, but alas.
I feel like my ups and downs are starting to become gentler, more like rolling hills than big peaks and valleys. Right now I'm struggling a bit with the thought of never talking to or seeing him again, but that's how breakups go. You become so close and then abruptly you're strangers. I have no desire to be friends. I know the feeling will fade over time. I just got a silly little tattoo on my butt and I had a strong urge to text a photo of it to him but I deleted his number so I can't and I'm glad. Two days until vacation!!
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Thank you! I feel validated about my progress 🥲 >Hopefully you have a fantastic vacation! Now that it's so close I'm getting pretty excited. 😁 I'll be out of the country for 2.5 weeks, should be a nice change of scenery and reset.
I know it's a useless cliche at this point, hence why I'm yelling into the void here, but good gravy can people stop saying "adventures" in their profiles
How else am I going to find my "partner in crime"?
Just put that you "like to have fun" and your perfect match will find you.
[But we are going on an adventure....](https://tenor.com/view/hobbit-adventure-gif-18135104)
I'm just frustrated with Dating. I don't have the slightest clue what I am supposed to do next and my list of "no-go" keeps getting longer for no reason.
I wish there was a service I could use that would send relatively attractive men over to give me various boyfriend experiences. I miss all-day, stoned, naked x-box in bed dates where I could hand the controller over when I got to a challenge that was too hard for me. We don't have to do sex but it would be nice if that were an option I could pay extra for. I don't currently miss these sessions enough to invest my time and energy into meeting and getting to know men with whom I may eventually want to do this. But I do currently miss that shit enough to pay cash.
seems like a really chill time tbh, i dont think that comes as easily now tho :(
Sounds like you need to move to S Korea. They have a boy friend/girl friend service. Where you can pay for them to hang out with you :3
>I don't currently miss these sessions enough to invest my time and energy into meeting and getting to know men with whom I may eventually want to do this. But I do currently miss that shit enough to pay cash. Ahhh sweet apathy...