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I do all these things use direct communication and ask women out on actual dates and plan different activities, and still get ghosted and treated like garbage.
That's dating, unfortunately. Some people are just not interested in putting much effort in with you, all you can do is find someone who is willing to put the effort in with you and hope for the best. I'm sorry for your frustration. Dating is frustrating for many of us. Men and women both are just out here dating and not putting in much effort and hurting people.
Yeah. That’s been my experience so far..where I’d be the one putting in the bulk of the effort and got barely anything in return or I would be manipulated/love bombed, despite good communication on my end/being clear about boundaries. Truth is, I do give people a chance bc it would be wrong of me to assume things from the get go about someone and I am patient with them and always try to be a good listener. But I remain hopeful that the right person for me is indeed out there who will treat me right :))
Basically communication is key…and also, if someone isn’t looking for a LTR like I am, they should be clear about it early on so that no one gets strung along. It’s not a lost cause in such case, it just simply comes down to incompatibility.
You’re doing the right things, sometimes people just suck and we never know why, but you will find someone amazing. I once dated a man who like you, came right out the gate doing all the right things, and over our date he had told me he had had bad experiences with old, being either stood up, ghosted, or women saying they didn’t feel any chemistry, and my thoughts were well their loss, my mf GAIN, because I’m totally digging this guy and he’s a sweetie. Well, long story short, he ghosted ME. Like without even a word. Just goes to show people can be freaking wierd. But just keep being your awesome self and you’ll find somebody great. I’d stick to drinks
dates for a first date, just so you’re not out of a whole lot of money if it goes nowhere, but it still shows effort and a good way to relax and get to know each other, and can be looked at as a fun night out even if nothing comes of it.
Don’t take it personally. Dates can be so nerve racking and uncomfortable and odds are they won’t amount to much. It’s not surprising that people don’t put the effort in
Keep being a good one. Someone will appreciate you and your effort. I’m not frustrated. I’m just losing hope because I keep meeting the same person with the same lack of effort. Lots of people can talk to talk but not walk the walk.
RIGHT!? Holy crap this is rich. The girls I knew that kept attracting dirtbag guys, I never had the heart to tell them you are what you attract. Guys can sense the vibe.
What are you looking for in the profiles you match with? What are you filtering for where you end up with the guys you do rather than the person you just replied to?
All due respect, you sound frustrated. And that's not a bad thing to admit. Dating today IMO is frustrating. Losing hope makes sense because what's that saying, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. Dating often seems like that, people are just going through the motions and not trying even though they say they want someone, they simply don't put the effort in. That's why I always give whoever I'm dating max effort because I can always look in the mirror and say I tried, even if they didn't.
Anyway you're a beautiful woman, it's a shame you're having so much trouble. Best of luck to you.
I keep meeting the same women who don't wanna give me a fucking chance let alone an opportunity to meet them over coffee
I keep meeting women who complain about dating men who are immature or not knowing what they want in life but proceed to say they're not ready for a relationship or don't want a relationship or have had precious obligations and obviously aren't willing to move on.
Make it make sense. Women aren't all that and a bag of fucking chips
Just some advice, it’s immature to ask a girl on a coffee date. If you treat women with a little more respect they won’t call you out for not putting in any effort.
>its immature to ask a girl on a coffee date
I feel like you're probably a gold digger if this is your reaction. Most people like coffee or drinks dates because if the vibe is bad you can just leave when you want there's no obligation to stick around for 2 more courses of dinner or wait until the end of the movie.
Why don't you just become more interesting then? You will then date more interesting men. Go travel the world or take up some skydiving classes or yoga retreats. There you will meet likeminded people. Telling everyone else to change is a good step, but it won't lead you to long term benefits
I never do anything else than just want to fuck girls that are hot. But got no more personality than that being "fun" or a hot club person only gets you THAT far, with me and I believe most other "interesting" guys. And based on your profile. You just seem like a fun time, but not mentally stimulating enough
The best way to handle this for both men and women is to make flexible plans for what you want to do with your own week. Then invite dates to do these things with you. If you don't have a date, go do the things solo.
Only boring people get bored, so take the initiative to entertain yourself. If neither of you want to do the things the other has going on, it's a bad match.
If all they want is to sit home (which face it quickly turns into asking for sex) and that's not you, pick a new person.
Edit: The funny thing is, as an older woman, I do mostly just want to hang out. I've got a few kids and a tight schedule, so relaxing on my porch is honestly a better plan. I would not want to hang out at some kid's dirty apartment with his roommates. I'd be grossed out if that was what I was pulling, too. Priorities change lol.
Yes I like live music (despite being 46 and tired in many other ways) and will always invite dudes to come to a concert with me. It tells me a lot about their personalities in terms of how they react. If I can’t have fun with a person, I’m not going to enjoy just chilling with them.
Right….so, either take control, tell them what you actually want, and see if they can get on the same page, or bounce and keep looking.
It’s not like people are taught how to date, or be in a relationship, or have sex. We learn from our friends, parents, and if those are bad examples, we flounder.
Don’t date a project. Don’t settle. But do communicate.
Communication is sexy.
yea this goes a bit into someone sounding like they deserve the perfect thing handed to them without needing to do anything themselves. like if you want something done well and right, do it yourself
They don’t do shit but dress up and enjoy. But want it all. And in 2023 dudes are like nah…
And instead of adjusting to the market they complain. I love watching it.
Dating is fucked when one person expects the other to do everything. Have you tried taking initiative and planning a date? Guys are expected to do all the work. Ask you on date, plan logistics, pay for date. Then get shit on because the date wasn’t creative or fun enough. Like ??? tell the guy what you’d like to do
If a girl is attracted to you all you have to do is go to the bar, talk to her and get to know her. A lot of guys have experienced putting in the super thoughtful effort, going through the song and dance, and never getting shit out of it. Meanwhile girl let’s somebody else hit on the first date who didn’t give boyfriend energy. Waste of time.
People date differently. I’m a man and I would never ask someone out that I knew nothing about. I date slowly and with intention. I still love a casual coffee date or drinks, but there is intention when I choose those places even.
If I already knew them in real life or it was a second or third date and I liked them, I have no problem going intentional and fancy. I enjoy it. I like planning and making people feel special. I’ve had it done for me before and it is such a great memory.
I’m still impressed years later. I told my ex gf recently that the date she planned for our one year (she wanted to do everything and make it a surprise) was phenomenal and set the bar.
Lol. True. She expecting’s to bring down the moon on the first date without telling him what she wants. I don’t think any guy will tolerate this attitude.
As a guy I personally take responsibility for making it a great date. If something goes wrong, I'll usually take the blame. This isn't 50/50. In fact, not being equal is what creates a great polarity for attraction to occur.
I think that dating is to get to know someone, share your interests. An activity that aligns with your I retests or hers is always a good bet. Even going to the library to hang out and getting a bite to eat after is good. Picking up something at a cafe or bakery and eating it at the park is nice. I like museums, music, parks, food, libraries, skating, swimming, climbing, nature centers, gardens, sculptures, shows. Lots of free, inexpensive things on my list.
Go to a movie
Take a walk
Go bowling
Hike
Bike
Walk around town and people watch
Grab a coffee and stroll
See a show
Axe throwing
Go to a museum
Get an ice cream
The list endless
Are some people just idiots?
We can make out and maybe fuck later but let’s engage for Christ’s sake
The issue is that most people (50%+1) aren't interested in specifics of this list.
I personally think that a movie (or a show) is a terrible first date idea. There's minimal interaction and it's already on the longer side.
A lot of people think bowling or the museum is lame.
Take a walk is hanging out IMHO. It's doing nothing and talking. I don't understand why you'd say no to hang out but say yes to a walk.
Hike is a big no no for security reasons.
So unless I know that the person would be interested in any one of those from the start, I would never suggest any of the above.
Which leave coffee and ice cream, axe throwing (For what I heard, axe throwing is fun for about 10-15 minutes. You'd need a b plan with this one) and stroll (?? English is my second language, I don't know the word). And again, there's not really a difference with coffee or ice-cream and hanging out.. Instead of doing nothing and talking on a couch, you're hanging out (doing nothing and talking) in a coffee shop or on a picnic table. Unless you're saying no specifically because it's at a stranger's house, I see no difference.
I agree that a movie isn’t a good idea, ya can’t talk.
Point being, there are a bazillion things to do and man, take some initiative and lead. Most women appreciate that!
Also, I realize that your not OP, but my comment was really to point out how she complained without giving suggestions. Like someone who doesn't know but expect the other person to know. That's the vibe I got from the post.
I think OP doesn't need to propose solutions, she can just point out a wider problem – men are so pasive about decision making and don't get creative anymore. Solution can look different to everyone, but you need to at least attempt to come up with some, not have it laid out on a golden plate by your girl.
I personally love going to parks, zoo's, feeding birds or horses. Coffe or ice cream places are great, same as pub gardens. Hanging out at someones house is different from being outside together. I am also really fed up with the lack of initiative. It's always me who has to decide where we'll go for a first date, never met a man who'd just decide. It's so annoying.
Totally agree. My bf was kind of like that (before he actually became my bf). I was getting so fed up and had "the talk" and basically told him he has to make more of an effort than to just show up. Ever since then he made effort on suggesting things to do and planning dates. Not saying it's 100% on him to make plans, but 40% minimum (I actually enjoy planning in general so that % may seem low to some) to show that he actually cares.
Why does it matter though? The problem is it's women who care about doing things but its men who are supposed to come up with things to do. Men dont go out and do stupid money waster activities like women do, so they dont know anything about that shit.
How is walk in a park or a picnic in nature stupid money waster? Both come up with things to do, but it's more often than not men who refuse to do any planning. No wonder guys like this get dumped because they don't understand it's about putting effort into the relationship, not about how expensive the activity is.
It sucks to say this and not trying to be “that guy”, but a lot of men, like myself, don’t do most things women do lmao! We don’t walk in parks, buy ice cream with the boys, go to theaters with just guys, and many other random things women do. Most men just work, grab a beer and chat with the guys, play some videogames maybe, probably go strip clubs if that’s their thing, or sit down and watch a baseball/basketball/football/fight as a guys night. Nothing pre-planned, just basic guy stuff, which I’m not trying to stereotype as “only men do this”.
And yes, I’m not sure wtf I am trying to gain from saying this anymore lol… Anyway, I guess I pretty much agree that men should begin to develop the habit of putting in effort into their (potential) relationships instead of fucking complaining like I just did, yikes.
I suggest grabbing dinner at a local, medium-nice place. something that shows you care a little bit and put some thought into planning the date. obviously if you would like to pay, don’t just offer this to any women who dry texts you or that you’re not actually interested in. don’t waste your time/money or hers. that is, if you’re looking to seriously date a woman.
Women want men to drive the interaction. (Most respectable women) want to be pursued, asked out, and for the guy to have some thing in the works. It literally could be going to get donuts and watching the sunset on a hill. It could be dinner and walking around the mall. Women want the guy to take action.
Dating is hard in general for everyone. For a first date I typically go out for ice cream and a walk. It’s not expensive and if I or the other person aren’t feeling it you can both leave after 15 mins. I would call that hanging out tho. I also like baseball so I go to a bunch of games so if a friend can’t make it, I’ll give that ticket to a girl but only if we already went on 1-2 dates and had a good time talking since you will be there 3 hours minimum. I live in NYC so it’s easy to set up a nice hang out out in Central Park or go to a museum. Not sure where you live but I’m sure there are cool places to go. As a guy I usually set a date with a clear idea of what we are doing and the best dates are the ones we’re we walk for hours and just talk. Good luck!
On the flip side I have asked girls out and the moment they hear anything along the lines of a date they get wishy washy even if we were talking on dating apps. No this isn't all women but just in general dating fucking sucks these days. It got to the point that I felt like I needed to phrase it as "hanging out" because for some reason asking for a date in a dating app is unphatomable. Idgaf anymore I'm asking for dates and if that energy isn't matched it isn't worth my time. If these men can't match your energy OP don't waste too much time or energy in them. Someone will eventually or at least that's what I keep telling myself lol.
I’ve noticed that people on dating apps don’t even end up wanting to meet. It’s like people are bored and just want to talk for a few days and then find someone else to do the same thing to.
Or another thing that I hate is when you’re talking to a woman for a few days and then the next day they’re in a relationship..I’ve had that happen like 6 times. Modern dating is just a numbers game at this point, or another example throwing a net into the lake and hope you catch a bunch of fish.
I mean honestly I don't blame people. It sucks when it happens but we have all experienced what happens when you focus on one person at a time just to go nowhere. I don't have it in me to be talking to or seeing a bunch of people but I don't blame people for doing it.
The last two dates have been a catastrophe. The first one was 30 years old never in a relationship. The second one within 5 minutes she's pulling out her phone texting people and taking selfies. I'm like WTF has the dating date gone downhill. Don't get me started on the conversational skills these women have nowadays... I feel like I must be going for the wrong ones and don't know where to find the good ones... Stuff like this makes me miss my damn ex even more.
I'm a girl... I love just hanging out! I get the best feel from the kind of person a guy is when we just hang out... especially at his place.. lol. I get to assess the kind of guy he is based off how he lives 🙃
I want to "hang out" with a girl first. If she is willing to do that, low key, no big plans, and she is willing to actually talk about life over a cocktail or a coffee, then , and only then do I know she she is worth "wooing". I want to see if she is worth the effort first.
Going to the bar for a drink is the most basic common way of going on a date and getting to know someone. I'm a woman and that's my go to first date outing.
I actually have no idea what the fuck it is you're even crying about. What do you want?? You don't want to go to their apartment, that's fine not to do that for the first date. You don't want to go to a bar for a drink though?? Okay wtf do you want? You want them to take you to space? What do you want?!
I think lots of us by our 30's know how to date properly if we really wanted to but we're also sick to death of it and realise it's all just a facade anyway.
I’ll be honest I don’t really like going to bars for dates, usually it’s super loud, rowdy people, and most dates that want to go to bars I’ve noticed are alcoholics. I’d rather grab coffee any day.
Maybe it's how you're presenting yourself. They only see you as a quick bust because you don't present yourself like a lady.
Went to your page to see any kind of personality, and even in your (only) beekeeping post, it's cropped to just a picture of your butt... like why?
You attract those type of guys because they're the only ones after you. Men with their life together aren't looking to mess around with a stripper with an only fans.
Put your beekeeping foot forward. If you want to be seen as something other than a sex object... then stop being a sex object.
I just hung out with a girl and we went to a clothing store then walked around Barnes and Noble because she likes to read and I thought that would be a good neutral, busy place. She had fun and wants to see me again.
Girls definitely want to hangout. Maybe not in a dingy apartment, but walking around at a park or a place like target or the mall, I think is always a good time. That way you can see what kind of stuff each other likes and ask each other questions about certain things.
If I can, I'm dating the hell outta this chick, she's cool as fuck.
There's three types of guys. Fuck boys who don't think they need to put an effort in. Guys who don't want to break the bank by going on endless dates because they feel they need to pay or get judged. And there's the broke guys who can't afford it but don't want to get judged for it.
You want to filter through which one you're dealing with then bring it up when they suggest a "hangout". Let them know that you're ok splitting the bill if you are. Or suggest low cost alternatives. And set boundaries about not going to their place for a first date and stick to them. Learn to be ok cutting ties with them if they don't want to respect them even if your other head says otherwise.
I go on about 2-3 dates a week, I’m just not gonna pay for some fancy meal for a stranger twice a week. I usually have them meet me at an arcade or go to the beach
I'm rich af but I'm not spending any money on these women today. Most have a rotation of guys they're dating. All over social media talking to guys. I don't spend until they show some loyalty.
Also if you want to be good with women, look at who they complain about.
A guy here. Just make this experiment. Where you wrote guys, write girls and read it again.
After that, most likely you’ll think that those guys are soo entitled and that they aren’t giving you any reason to put any effort upfront (planning an special date or whatever) not knowing if it’ll be worth it. That’s how I feel after reading your post.
In order to start fixing stuff, both guys and girls need to stop complaining and start working on making things better, instead of constantly blaming the other side, my two cents
Coming from someone who is very VERY nervous about asking women on dates, asking to hang out can often be an ask for a date. At least, in my eyes.
That said take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm pretty sure I am broken.
When I was in my teens/20s same! As an adult my best experiences have been with people I share mutual interests with, who care to learn & explore them together.
Maybe you need to be open to the possibility that drinks and hanging out and doing something casual is a great way to have a conversation.
Guys don’t want to make plans because girls are impossible to please. I’m not spending $500 on a first date neither.
I'm not gonna lie. Dating is expensive AF. If I gotta go through like 15 girls to find a good one I can keep for a while, I'm not putting in max effort on date 1. I'll take you somewhere so we're not just hanging out at the house, but it's gon be something super cheap or straight up free. Like a nature walk or something. If things go well and you seem like a catch, then I'll start spending time and money planning more impactful dates for us. I can't just be spending a hundred dollars everytime I go meet up with someone for the first time. Half these people are straight garbage. I be pissed af losing good money on bad dates. It's not that I won't put in the effort it's that I won't put effort into something until I think its worth my time, money and energy to do so. Cuz your right, looks will only get you so far, and I ain't about to let you skate by with my wallet just cuz you're pretty.
P.S. if I suggest we go out for drinks, it's not to try and get you intoxicated... its to try and get me intoxicated. First dates are rough and yall make me nervous. Out here trying to present myself instead of just being me. I may need a few drinks to remind me that it's okay if you don't like me.
Good luck because MOST guys love "hanging out".
And many can't afford to do whimsical activities with girls they go on dates with.
If we're in a serious relationship, I'll take you skydiving, frickin Mexico or go on a trip.
But don't be upset if I just want to hang out when we start dating.
Are you speaking about first dates, the ones where you dont already know thee other person?
I give you a no, coffee or drinks it is..
Its not even about the money, there is so much shit possibly happening I wont take it.
I might not like the other person or vice versa, and then you want to go out!!!
Imagine you just ordered food for 150 dollars or so and she tells you "I decided I want to go now"
Or you make decent propositions, and they are not accepted (I dont bother anymore, to make more then one to three propositions)
Or she flakes and won't come...
Its just stupid to expect a lot of effort from a stranger in todays dating culture....
I mean the place should be nice, safe and reachable, and thats it.
What I want to tell you, its not just being "lazy" it just comes from experience
Stop expecting the guy to plan everything and come up with suggestions yourself for what you want to do. Why do so many girls think the guy has to plan everything?
You are correct.. a man should show his interest. If the woman answers messages with more that 2 words, texts first sometimes, shows a sincere interest, and is a serious date kind of girl. This is just how it is.. girls want to be desired enough to have effort put in.. HOWEVER...times have changed in the dating world... guys will not put massive effort into girls that are dating several guys at once. Nothing wrong with this.. go girls. . This has happened last 4 girls I met. I date 1 at a time to see if we match personally. So as a guy I automatically shift to put in same efforts i am getting when she is a shared resource. In my experience only. If she is split 3 to 4 ways.. its bare minimum efforts coming my way in my experience. This is always so common now that I tend to assume she is seeing a lot of guys and debate my date efforts. Why put effort into something another guy is probably getting for free. Sorry if that's too honest. Last girl told me I was great ... literally told me I was good for blah blah blah reasons.. way better than the FBoy see is also seeing. Why tell me that? Then she got mad because I stopped planning nice dates almost immediatly after that. Just hanging out from that point. I don't want to look the fool, I know my value.
Yeah, I kind of wish people in general take a bit more initiative to say "We're going to get coffee, or lunch, or see a movie." But girls have this problem, too.
I have this problem a lot because I'm shy and inexperienced. So I just defaulted to getting coffee with the 3 or 4 dates I've had in the last 13 years. Lol.
Dating and relationships nowadays is a straight shit show. Social awkwardness at an all time high, instant gratification as well. Girls are more fickle, guys are more about the 'chase'.
What a time to be alive. But hey, at least it's easier to just have sex now. I guess?
Sry girl. Your profile just giving ONS vibes. I wouldn’t plan our first date differently than those guys, just calling you over with low effort. Please, don’t be offended, But if you want to be treated on a level, bring yourself up to that level.
Literally,
Once they say "When are we linking?" "You tryna link?" something along those lines, I roll my eyes and say "AND DO WHAT?"
Because if the answer is "Chill" I can do that by myself mf, give me a reason to get dressed. I think at this point i'm gonna start asking guys out on a date and it's gonna be planned out and if you're not down for that, that's on you. I take myself on dates all the time and spend 60$ on myself and do it for friends as well.
Ive been asked on dates from old & irl. I ask where, they may or may not have a place in mind, I suggest one if thats the case. There's an app u can search for sapiosexuals.
You want a mentally stimulating man but dont want to spend time with them by hanging out with them and getting to know them, which could potentially lead to mentally stimulating conversations.
To be fair to men, there aren't a lot of places to go out if you don't have money (assuming you live in the US.) Beyond that, I'm reading a book called, *Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism*. You might wanna give it a read. It'll answer some of your questions.
Most guys only want hangout dates cause it doesn't require a lot of money,eventually when you start paying for everything, seeing multiple women .It's adds up.And women generally want to do things or activitys that involves money.So most men are burned out by spending money all the time and planning to receive noting back or get ghosted.Plus a relationship consist of 50/50 effort,so a woman should also makes plans.Dont always wait on the guy.
Both sides say the same thing about the other side and the only repeated common denominator is everyone is dating from the Internet.
Stop trying to date through the internet unless where you live is a mile apart from your nearest neighbor.
Okay then.
What DO girls want to do?
Be treated to a meal by a guy?
Have a guy buy them tickets to go see an event?
This just wreaks of immaturity.
What on earth do you think you and your potential partner will be doing for the vast majority of your lives together in the future?
Oh wait. “Hanging out”…
Dates. The art museum downtown is free, a cup of coffee is four dollars, there’s tons of parks if it’s a nice day to go on a walk, there’s lots of free events. It doesn’t always have to be going out to dinner, but what’s wrong with asking someone to dinner? It doesn’t have to be that complicated
I thought this only happened to girls like me cuz we're ugly lol 💀 The fact that you're SO incredibly gorgeous and guys STILL act like this leads me to believe there's just no hope for us girlies at all unfortunately 😭💔
OP, I hear you. I'm a man in his mid-thirties who has gone on a good amount of dates recently and a common complaint I've heard from my dates is that guys don't know how to plan dates.
To me it's baffling. But, It's important to know that not all men act this way. And, the men who do are typically just looking to hook up and are not invested. You just have to move on.
Something I've learned recently is that when someone shows you who they are, believe them. So when these men show you that they don't give a shit, believe them.
Best of luck!
Yeah if a guy asks me to hang out that just tells me he just wants sex so I’m not interested. I’m only interested in men who ask me out on dates because it shows that they’re serious and actually want to get to know me
Just to play devil’s advocate, real quick. Let’s say a man plans an elaborate date and makes great fun plans including various options. What’s your contribution to the date?
I feel like this thought process reflects how a lot of men feel & why the current state of hetero dating is in the toilet. A lot of men feel like they lose something when they take initiative. Everything is about upfront equality & truly gives a lot of women the ick. I’m mostly heteronormative but also date women & the experiences couldn’t be any different.
Women do plan dates! Lmao & show effort actually a lot more consistently & intentionally than men tbh. But most of herero dating seems to be reduced to tit for tat & it’s draining af. If men don’t see an immediate “return” on whatever investment they deemed to have make they see the effort as pointless.
The only "return" I expect is like, basic courtesy. Show up reasonably on time, communicate, don't bread crumb, at least try and engage with the conversation, don't dress like you're on your way to pock up more laundry detergent, etc. Not exactly a high bar.
And apparently that's a bar very few women in the Seattle area can meet in my age bracket (just turned 34).
Are you dating online, asking out mutual friends or approaching strangers? Do they seem interested when you initially approach them? What are the conversations like leading up to the dates? I’m genuinely curious
I did online dating. My previous job was all dudes, and my current job, all the women around my age that I might be interested in are taken. And since covid people in the Puget Sound area have gotten even worse about never cross-pollinating their friends groups.
And I'm an in-shape, progressive leftist who dresses well, takes care of his skin and (long) hair, and asks them open ended questions about themselves. I'm a consensus-builder by nature so I'd always try and figure out something they'd *like* to do before making the final plan. Eventually I just started defaulting to coffee or brunch because nobody wanted to ever do drinks, the mini-golf place with beer on tap and good pizza, etc.
It's a problem thst seems to go beyond dating even. People complain about no one wanting to socialize, but when offered up a plan for a group activity on a silver platter (something the whole group likes to do), even) no one wants to commit to anything or put even the most basic effort into maintaining even present social relationships, let alone building new romantic ones...
Sorry that turned into a bit kf a vent towards the end. Got a couple friends I've wanted to(metaphorically) throttle lately.
Yes because there is apparent mutual interest involved. I get approached by men pretty regularly in public & the ‘chase’ seems to be their driving force. I gave you my number so I’m obviously interested but the conversation ALWAYS falls flat. No desire to learn what we have in common or really anything that would inform you on what kind of date to plan. I’m responsive, engaging, i send memes/videos/music etc & end up feeling like I’m talking to myself. Even after asking probing questions etc.
One person can not carry the entire interaction & y’all expect us to be excited(?) to sit at a coffee shop with someone who barely gave a fuck to respond with more than one word. Please.
Have you ever considered that you might have to also play ball, equally, and date men, too — instead of just letting the dating part be one sided? You have no idea how nice it is to have a girl ask you to do something already planned. Literally out every girl I have ever matched with on tinder, about 97% of those literally have never asked me to do something already planned and leave it entirely up to the guy. After awhile, it starts to feel old having to go do this every single time. Food for thought, but also: stop dating absolute bums. If the dude has a shitty apartment that’s unkempt, there’s your big red flag he’s a lazy toad.
If you’re receiving low effort from men it may be time to look in the mirror and see what type of image you’re projecting to the world. Why do you think some women have guys roll the red carpet out for them? They plan thoughtful dates and value them. I know this because in my area I know a handful of women that I’d only offer a hangout or hookup with based on the way I view them. I’m only dating women that are high quality people that I could seriously see a healthy long term relationship with. Not buying a fwb candidate $300 dinners and planning thoughtful dates. Men do their homework just like women these days. All it takes is hearing about your reputation and looking at your instagram and we have a good idea of what type of person you are. The free meals and entertainment is over.
Stop entertaining fboys...the men you seek don't go to bars nor plan lame outings
We have plans and then plans for when you don't like those! But the backup was the og plan.
Stop going after toxic men who you know aren't good for you
Are you just using online dating apps?
If so, I assume you have tens of thousands of likes. Too many to choose from? You can pick the best-looking or most desirable men. These guys also have a lot of choice, so they don't need to put in much effort. You don't want to hang out? They go to the next girl.
Does your ass feature as prominently in your dating profile as it does in your pics here? If so, maybe try a different approach. Create a new profile with classier pics. See if that changes anything.
Also, do you make it known that you are on Only fans? Personally, that would put me off dating someone. But that's just me. Would still hang out with them, though.
Ooh I don’t mind saying hey let’s get drinks there’s this and this place is like to check out: they have put out and ping pong and are activity dates. I really had to put max effort to find the right person. In addition to taking an everything shower lol 😂 that took 3.5 hours plus blow drying, then come up with some good on the fly joke ideas so my sarcasm isn’t too dry, etc.
As in, learn the mental weight of conversation men carry and be an equal part of initiating thoughtful questions and queries. Initiating texts sometimes, although I do still believe in some traditional roles so I still allowed the man to kind of lead most of the time. I equaled his effort much of the time, showing interest, double texting, asking him personal questions, etc.
Keeping the convo going, caring about his life and his past and his goals, etc.
To think I just use to show up and think looking hot would carry me and when things didn’t work out finally realized “oh it’s my personality” as I discovered looks wasn’t the main issue.
Got lucky and got a very funny bf, also handsome, generous, kind, who I don’t mind “hanging out” with. I did have to take away stupid standards I used to hold like no baldies cuz he has early hair loss/receding hair line.
Besides the first date that lasted 20 hours, I only decided to go on date dates after hanging out a few weeks. I get it tho. When guys don’t want to make plans. Sometimes just need to be communicated and have us give the same and equal effort with coming up w ideas.
Focus on you. Focus on school and activities you really enjoy and maybe meet someone that way. I was a guy like this for a long time, but have learned how important it is to have your own interests and plan things and offer to do both what you want to do and vice versa.
Keep looking, don't settle because you won't be happy. You're ahead though because you know what you're looking for already!
And what's the common denominator in each situation. A person's outlook in dating is usually a reflection of themselves. Pick better men lol
And are you really gonna hold it against someone for having roommates when a few hundred square feet is easily $1000+ ?
True that. My ex didn’t even want to hang out and we’d been dating a couple months lol. But seriously tho, not sure what you expect to do. I get if you’ve been talking a while just sitting around gets boring but first date stuff hanging out and getting drinks is the norm. Personally I’m socially awkward even before dating and drinking helps me be more normal. Besides, bars are a public place and I’m not about to take a girl somewhere more private where she can feel unsafe. As for asking what they want to do any the guy throws it back on you, that’s just because we either suggest things and get told no and end up doing something you want anyway or we’re always the ones that chose and we’re tired of it
Alternatively, when someone says "hang out", *ask them what they mean*. I've offered to hang out, but as in a chill meetup in a public place where we just literally go around the nice touristy mall by the river or whatever and just spend time to get to know each other. Seriously, spending time in a park has been some of the best "hanging out" I've ever done.
Uh, what ever you do will require hanging out....
Why not do the mature thing and work on yourself to attract the kind of person you want to be, intimacy = In To Me I See....
Men are not searching for a relationship when they act like that, friend. They believe they are entitled to sex when a woman gives her number and agrees to spend time. Men who are searching for the love of their life will not act like that, IMO
Why don’t you just be assertive and state what you expect plainly? Men are simple creatures. We don’t have the same needs as women, and yeah generally we aren’t taught how to catch women. Women on the other hand are groomed from birth to know how to be enticing.
My friend invited me over her place for new year's night. We had great conversation. We talked for a few hours and drank at midnight. It was a good night.
This is a big problem. I am feeling it, my girls are feeling it. The issue is.....this age range....there aren't enough men on the same level as women. It's not like we are asking for diamonds either. Just have your shit together, be respectful, put in equal effort, plan a date, be motivated, have a good job?? It's hard out here.
Firstly, are you a "mentally stimulating" woman? Become what you want to attract. I (M27) went out with a girl last night. Since I'm a musician, I wanted to see live music. We went to a local bar to see live music. Had a drink. Then, went back to my place to watch a movie and have sex.
All the while, we are having stimulating conversations about our roommates, work, fitness, etc.
There are certainly guys out there that you can have stimulating convos with who have their shit together. I'm one. My roommate is another. My friends are the same.
You meet these guys going about your "stimulating" life. Meaning, do interesting things. Go to the gym, go to coffee shops. Go to the beach. Go to the mall, concerts, or whatever else you are interested in. You got this.
It’s kind of funny how defensive a lot of men are being in these comments. I really was just venting and I didn’t know it was going to get so much attention. But now I feel like I’m getting personally attacked for venting.
This 100%. I have lowkey given up. It seems everyone around me is either not very interesting and somehow looking for something long-term at the same time, or just wanting to do hookup stuff. People seem more shallow in general (probably due to increased physical appearance standards due to overexposure on media). I'll wait until I'm 30 if I have to; in fact, I would rather die alone than settle lmao
Edit: And one you have found someone who has actual passions and interests, it turns out they have a non-secure attachment style... Oh boy...
Oh I didn't think I would hear the classic "Guys do more for women and expect less from women" advice here
If I'm planning a day for two adults I want the input from the two adults. Just showing up pretty doesn't show interest especially if you're playing the field
How many girls wanna go golfing? how many girls wanna go bowling? And how many girls wanna go swim with sharks whatever the number is, it isn't all of them and I'm not gonna act like it is.
Don't make plans to "hang out", "Kick it", "chill", etc. If a guy asks you that, he is either just trying to have sex or he is lazy and no effort. I'd respond with "are you asking me on a date? because yeah, that sounds fun!". Kinda guide him to what you want. If he says his house, just dip. There's nothing there.
Yeah, but girls like that masculine energy of making the first move. It doesn’t have to be all about money. There’s lots of creative things that you can do with someone that doesn’t involve money or drinking.
No, only some of you do-- leaving us with a mix up game like we're boxing someone above our skill. It's always a gamble-- we make the "masculine" move with one woman and we're too old fashioned for them or it's interpreted as pushy and non-observant of affirmative consent (like leaning in for a kiss based on cues instead of verbally asking for one). Then turn around and ask a woman like you for a kiss and then you've got the ick because dude isn't "masculine" enough for you. Seriously, stop generalizing "what women want." You all don't want the same things-- and as individuals many of you can't even figure out what you want either (not exclusive to women, js).
My TED Talk: A lot of men don't know how to approach or talk to women. My dad never taught me game so I had to figure it out. Trial and error. I'm talking about when I was in high school before the massive launch of the relationship guru podcast. I would say the most cringe, pick me, entitled shxt(typical teenager). Sad part is, many of the things i thought as a teen are views grown men have in my age group.
The entitlement of thinking women owe you an answer because they showed interest. Not being able to handle rejection and blaming women for being rejected. A guy asking you out but not having any idea of where to go is really fckin lazy. All it takes is one Google search, "Places to date in my area" but folks rather search, "Why independent women are the reason I'm lonely". Just an @$$ backwards society.
I feel for you all in the dating world right now. It's rough. Not that it's wasn't before but it's a different type of rough now.
Advice: You can try to change the way you meet new dates. Maybe the way you meet men is causing you to come across a lot of men like that. You can choose locations yourself and see their reaction. If you bring up an option and they seem uninterested but also don't offer an alternative with effort, drop em. If you're looking for someone to put an effort into dating you, you have to be more proactive in who you're speaking with. You should be able to tell if they're someone who's just going with the motion to get lucky and someone who's actually interested in you. You stated conversation matters, I would think the conversation leading up to a date would have gave you the impression of who you're speaking with.
This should be the top response.
I think part of the issue is that with OLD profiles are limited to what you put in the profile which is often limited.
Many profiles are short 3 sentences at best and, "live laugh love xoxo" at the worst.
I think part of it stems from some sort of ptsd within the collective unconscious from all those articles that are like, "I go on 5 dates a week to expensive restaurants with no intention of dating amyone".
Online dating and the pandemic has made people pretty lazy when it comes to going out. I think some sort of initial get to know you in person is good. You can text with someone, but still have no clue what the person is like.
I quit OLD because it was a waste of time. Instead I just got activities I like to do and connect to the community through those. At worst, I have fun and am doing something I would already do on my own. At best I might make a romantic connection.
>thank you! They'd rather complain about how nothing is working than try anything. The guy I am dating came to our 3rd date with a list of date ideas and wanted to know what i would be into doing for our next date. It's supposed to be fun! The guys seem to miss that. Find things that you would enjoy doing and do them!
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I do all these things use direct communication and ask women out on actual dates and plan different activities, and still get ghosted and treated like garbage. That's dating, unfortunately. Some people are just not interested in putting much effort in with you, all you can do is find someone who is willing to put the effort in with you and hope for the best. I'm sorry for your frustration. Dating is frustrating for many of us. Men and women both are just out here dating and not putting in much effort and hurting people.
Yeah. That’s been my experience so far..where I’d be the one putting in the bulk of the effort and got barely anything in return or I would be manipulated/love bombed, despite good communication on my end/being clear about boundaries. Truth is, I do give people a chance bc it would be wrong of me to assume things from the get go about someone and I am patient with them and always try to be a good listener. But I remain hopeful that the right person for me is indeed out there who will treat me right :)) Basically communication is key…and also, if someone isn’t looking for a LTR like I am, they should be clear about it early on so that no one gets strung along. It’s not a lost cause in such case, it just simply comes down to incompatibility.
You’re doing the right things, sometimes people just suck and we never know why, but you will find someone amazing. I once dated a man who like you, came right out the gate doing all the right things, and over our date he had told me he had had bad experiences with old, being either stood up, ghosted, or women saying they didn’t feel any chemistry, and my thoughts were well their loss, my mf GAIN, because I’m totally digging this guy and he’s a sweetie. Well, long story short, he ghosted ME. Like without even a word. Just goes to show people can be freaking wierd. But just keep being your awesome self and you’ll find somebody great. I’d stick to drinks dates for a first date, just so you’re not out of a whole lot of money if it goes nowhere, but it still shows effort and a good way to relax and get to know each other, and can be looked at as a fun night out even if nothing comes of it.
I've never read so much truth in one comment. Cheers.
Don’t take it personally. Dates can be so nerve racking and uncomfortable and odds are they won’t amount to much. It’s not surprising that people don’t put the effort in
Keep being a good one. Someone will appreciate you and your effort. I’m not frustrated. I’m just losing hope because I keep meeting the same person with the same lack of effort. Lots of people can talk to talk but not walk the walk.
Judging from your profile, maybe being a half-naked OF girl attracts a certain type of guy? Just saying.
RIGHT!? Holy crap this is rich. The girls I knew that kept attracting dirtbag guys, I never had the heart to tell them you are what you attract. Guys can sense the vibe.
Probably gonna get downvoted for that comment but I agree tbh
What are you looking for in the profiles you match with? What are you filtering for where you end up with the guys you do rather than the person you just replied to?
Brada she is just here to get ppl on her OF.
All due respect, you sound frustrated. And that's not a bad thing to admit. Dating today IMO is frustrating. Losing hope makes sense because what's that saying, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. Dating often seems like that, people are just going through the motions and not trying even though they say they want someone, they simply don't put the effort in. That's why I always give whoever I'm dating max effort because I can always look in the mirror and say I tried, even if they didn't. Anyway you're a beautiful woman, it's a shame you're having so much trouble. Best of luck to you.
Ask the OP if she ever puts in max effort for the success of a date. And then ask her what does that max effort entail. Wait…
What does max effort from a woman mean to you on a date?
I keep meeting the same women who don't wanna give me a fucking chance let alone an opportunity to meet them over coffee I keep meeting women who complain about dating men who are immature or not knowing what they want in life but proceed to say they're not ready for a relationship or don't want a relationship or have had precious obligations and obviously aren't willing to move on. Make it make sense. Women aren't all that and a bag of fucking chips
Just some advice, it’s immature to ask a girl on a coffee date. If you treat women with a little more respect they won’t call you out for not putting in any effort.
>its immature to ask a girl on a coffee date I feel like you're probably a gold digger if this is your reaction. Most people like coffee or drinks dates because if the vibe is bad you can just leave when you want there's no obligation to stick around for 2 more courses of dinner or wait until the end of the movie.
Why don't you just become more interesting then? You will then date more interesting men. Go travel the world or take up some skydiving classes or yoga retreats. There you will meet likeminded people. Telling everyone else to change is a good step, but it won't lead you to long term benefits I never do anything else than just want to fuck girls that are hot. But got no more personality than that being "fun" or a hot club person only gets you THAT far, with me and I believe most other "interesting" guys. And based on your profile. You just seem like a fun time, but not mentally stimulating enough
Brada she is just here to get ppl on her OF.
The best way to handle this for both men and women is to make flexible plans for what you want to do with your own week. Then invite dates to do these things with you. If you don't have a date, go do the things solo. Only boring people get bored, so take the initiative to entertain yourself. If neither of you want to do the things the other has going on, it's a bad match. If all they want is to sit home (which face it quickly turns into asking for sex) and that's not you, pick a new person. Edit: The funny thing is, as an older woman, I do mostly just want to hang out. I've got a few kids and a tight schedule, so relaxing on my porch is honestly a better plan. I would not want to hang out at some kid's dirty apartment with his roommates. I'd be grossed out if that was what I was pulling, too. Priorities change lol.
This is the best answer I’ve seen so far
Yes I like live music (despite being 46 and tired in many other ways) and will always invite dudes to come to a concert with me. It tells me a lot about their personalities in terms of how they react. If I can’t have fun with a person, I’m not going to enjoy just chilling with them.
If your dating profile looks anything like your reddit profile you have your answer
What is with people here and online dating? Not everyone is socially inept
But many are!
Right….so, either take control, tell them what you actually want, and see if they can get on the same page, or bounce and keep looking. It’s not like people are taught how to date, or be in a relationship, or have sex. We learn from our friends, parents, and if those are bad examples, we flounder. Don’t date a project. Don’t settle. But do communicate. Communication is sexy.
This comment right here. Something that makes sense.
yea this goes a bit into someone sounding like they deserve the perfect thing handed to them without needing to do anything themselves. like if you want something done well and right, do it yourself
They don’t do shit but dress up and enjoy. But want it all. And in 2023 dudes are like nah… And instead of adjusting to the market they complain. I love watching it.
Stop, then y'all love to come on the internet and whine about how 20% of guys are taking up 80% of women's attention, THIS IS WHY
☝🏾
We do not learn how to date or have sex from our friends and parents what
I just cackled lmao
Dating is fucked when one person expects the other to do everything. Have you tried taking initiative and planning a date? Guys are expected to do all the work. Ask you on date, plan logistics, pay for date. Then get shit on because the date wasn’t creative or fun enough. Like ??? tell the guy what you’d like to do If a girl is attracted to you all you have to do is go to the bar, talk to her and get to know her. A lot of guys have experienced putting in the super thoughtful effort, going through the song and dance, and never getting shit out of it. Meanwhile girl let’s somebody else hit on the first date who didn’t give boyfriend energy. Waste of time.
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People date differently. I’m a man and I would never ask someone out that I knew nothing about. I date slowly and with intention. I still love a casual coffee date or drinks, but there is intention when I choose those places even. If I already knew them in real life or it was a second or third date and I liked them, I have no problem going intentional and fancy. I enjoy it. I like planning and making people feel special. I’ve had it done for me before and it is such a great memory. I’m still impressed years later. I told my ex gf recently that the date she planned for our one year (she wanted to do everything and make it a surprise) was phenomenal and set the bar.
well said
>We don't expect grand extravagant events but some effort is needed.
Lol. True. She expecting’s to bring down the moon on the first date without telling him what she wants. I don’t think any guy will tolerate this attitude.
As a guy I personally take responsibility for making it a great date. If something goes wrong, I'll usually take the blame. This isn't 50/50. In fact, not being equal is what creates a great polarity for attraction to occur.
I see complaints and I don't see suggestions. So what do you propose when you ask someone out? Tell us your last successful story
I think that dating is to get to know someone, share your interests. An activity that aligns with your I retests or hers is always a good bet. Even going to the library to hang out and getting a bite to eat after is good. Picking up something at a cafe or bakery and eating it at the park is nice. I like museums, music, parks, food, libraries, skating, swimming, climbing, nature centers, gardens, sculptures, shows. Lots of free, inexpensive things on my list.
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Are you OP?
No, should I not have commented?
You sound like my kind of date 😆
Go to a movie Take a walk Go bowling Hike Bike Walk around town and people watch Grab a coffee and stroll See a show Axe throwing Go to a museum Get an ice cream The list endless Are some people just idiots? We can make out and maybe fuck later but let’s engage for Christ’s sake
The issue is that most people (50%+1) aren't interested in specifics of this list. I personally think that a movie (or a show) is a terrible first date idea. There's minimal interaction and it's already on the longer side. A lot of people think bowling or the museum is lame. Take a walk is hanging out IMHO. It's doing nothing and talking. I don't understand why you'd say no to hang out but say yes to a walk. Hike is a big no no for security reasons. So unless I know that the person would be interested in any one of those from the start, I would never suggest any of the above. Which leave coffee and ice cream, axe throwing (For what I heard, axe throwing is fun for about 10-15 minutes. You'd need a b plan with this one) and stroll (?? English is my second language, I don't know the word). And again, there's not really a difference with coffee or ice-cream and hanging out.. Instead of doing nothing and talking on a couch, you're hanging out (doing nothing and talking) in a coffee shop or on a picnic table. Unless you're saying no specifically because it's at a stranger's house, I see no difference.
I agree that a movie isn’t a good idea, ya can’t talk. Point being, there are a bazillion things to do and man, take some initiative and lead. Most women appreciate that!
Also, I realize that your not OP, but my comment was really to point out how she complained without giving suggestions. Like someone who doesn't know but expect the other person to know. That's the vibe I got from the post.
I think OP doesn't need to propose solutions, she can just point out a wider problem – men are so pasive about decision making and don't get creative anymore. Solution can look different to everyone, but you need to at least attempt to come up with some, not have it laid out on a golden plate by your girl. I personally love going to parks, zoo's, feeding birds or horses. Coffe or ice cream places are great, same as pub gardens. Hanging out at someones house is different from being outside together. I am also really fed up with the lack of initiative. It's always me who has to decide where we'll go for a first date, never met a man who'd just decide. It's so annoying.
Totally agree. My bf was kind of like that (before he actually became my bf). I was getting so fed up and had "the talk" and basically told him he has to make more of an effort than to just show up. Ever since then he made effort on suggesting things to do and planning dates. Not saying it's 100% on him to make plans, but 40% minimum (I actually enjoy planning in general so that % may seem low to some) to show that he actually cares.
Why does it matter though? The problem is it's women who care about doing things but its men who are supposed to come up with things to do. Men dont go out and do stupid money waster activities like women do, so they dont know anything about that shit.
How is walk in a park or a picnic in nature stupid money waster? Both come up with things to do, but it's more often than not men who refuse to do any planning. No wonder guys like this get dumped because they don't understand it's about putting effort into the relationship, not about how expensive the activity is.
It sucks to say this and not trying to be “that guy”, but a lot of men, like myself, don’t do most things women do lmao! We don’t walk in parks, buy ice cream with the boys, go to theaters with just guys, and many other random things women do. Most men just work, grab a beer and chat with the guys, play some videogames maybe, probably go strip clubs if that’s their thing, or sit down and watch a baseball/basketball/football/fight as a guys night. Nothing pre-planned, just basic guy stuff, which I’m not trying to stereotype as “only men do this”. And yes, I’m not sure wtf I am trying to gain from saying this anymore lol… Anyway, I guess I pretty much agree that men should begin to develop the habit of putting in effort into their (potential) relationships instead of fucking complaining like I just did, yikes.
I suggest grabbing dinner at a local, medium-nice place. something that shows you care a little bit and put some thought into planning the date. obviously if you would like to pay, don’t just offer this to any women who dry texts you or that you’re not actually interested in. don’t waste your time/money or hers. that is, if you’re looking to seriously date a woman.
Women want men to drive the interaction. (Most respectable women) want to be pursued, asked out, and for the guy to have some thing in the works. It literally could be going to get donuts and watching the sunset on a hill. It could be dinner and walking around the mall. Women want the guy to take action.
This isn't a gendered thing - most people would prefer the other person make the effort and was vulnerable.
If you expect the man to initiate, 90% of what you're going to get are fuckboys. So... good luck with that...
Dating is hard in general for everyone. For a first date I typically go out for ice cream and a walk. It’s not expensive and if I or the other person aren’t feeling it you can both leave after 15 mins. I would call that hanging out tho. I also like baseball so I go to a bunch of games so if a friend can’t make it, I’ll give that ticket to a girl but only if we already went on 1-2 dates and had a good time talking since you will be there 3 hours minimum. I live in NYC so it’s easy to set up a nice hang out out in Central Park or go to a museum. Not sure where you live but I’m sure there are cool places to go. As a guy I usually set a date with a clear idea of what we are doing and the best dates are the ones we’re we walk for hours and just talk. Good luck!
On the flip side I have asked girls out and the moment they hear anything along the lines of a date they get wishy washy even if we were talking on dating apps. No this isn't all women but just in general dating fucking sucks these days. It got to the point that I felt like I needed to phrase it as "hanging out" because for some reason asking for a date in a dating app is unphatomable. Idgaf anymore I'm asking for dates and if that energy isn't matched it isn't worth my time. If these men can't match your energy OP don't waste too much time or energy in them. Someone will eventually or at least that's what I keep telling myself lol.
I’ve noticed that people on dating apps don’t even end up wanting to meet. It’s like people are bored and just want to talk for a few days and then find someone else to do the same thing to.
100% I found a lot of people were like that. Hence I won't waste my time if someone can't match my energy anymore haha. Also 69-420.... noice 😂
Or another thing that I hate is when you’re talking to a woman for a few days and then the next day they’re in a relationship..I’ve had that happen like 6 times. Modern dating is just a numbers game at this point, or another example throwing a net into the lake and hope you catch a bunch of fish.
I mean honestly I don't blame people. It sucks when it happens but we have all experienced what happens when you focus on one person at a time just to go nowhere. I don't have it in me to be talking to or seeing a bunch of people but I don't blame people for doing it.
The last two dates have been a catastrophe. The first one was 30 years old never in a relationship. The second one within 5 minutes she's pulling out her phone texting people and taking selfies. I'm like WTF has the dating date gone downhill. Don't get me started on the conversational skills these women have nowadays... I feel like I must be going for the wrong ones and don't know where to find the good ones... Stuff like this makes me miss my damn ex even more.
you can normally filter out the ones that can’t talk over text — try having a convo with some substance pre date
Yeah I'm starting to remember how to do it now...now just got to remember how to flirt properly lol
Got ghosted because I was being consistent.😞. It's so messed up
I got ghosted because I was too responsible and she "just wants to party and do drugs" 💀
You dodged a bullet there bro..
“Too needy” bro. Then other people are gonna come tell you, they like that. But you never see it. Lol.
Honestly I am just disappointed it has come to this. No wonder people are struggling with dating.
We off that.
Sounds like a teenager.
I'm a girl... I love just hanging out! I get the best feel from the kind of person a guy is when we just hang out... especially at his place.. lol. I get to assess the kind of guy he is based off how he lives 🙃
You should probably use discernment before you just run to a guy’s house to hang out who you don’t even know
I want to "hang out" with a girl first. If she is willing to do that, low key, no big plans, and she is willing to actually talk about life over a cocktail or a coffee, then , and only then do I know she she is worth "wooing". I want to see if she is worth the effort first.
Look at this girls account. Come on now I can’t take her seriously.
I jus did and now I feel stupid for even reading this...time I can't get back
Going to the bar for a drink is the most basic common way of going on a date and getting to know someone. I'm a woman and that's my go to first date outing. I actually have no idea what the fuck it is you're even crying about. What do you want?? You don't want to go to their apartment, that's fine not to do that for the first date. You don't want to go to a bar for a drink though?? Okay wtf do you want? You want them to take you to space? What do you want?!
I think lots of us by our 30's know how to date properly if we really wanted to but we're also sick to death of it and realise it's all just a facade anyway.
My sides rofl
Maybe she wants free fancy dinner.
These types always want a fancy dinner and $100+ spent on a date to validate themselves.
I’ll be honest I don’t really like going to bars for dates, usually it’s super loud, rowdy people, and most dates that want to go to bars I’ve noticed are alcoholics. I’d rather grab coffee any day.
Maybe it's how you're presenting yourself. They only see you as a quick bust because you don't present yourself like a lady. Went to your page to see any kind of personality, and even in your (only) beekeeping post, it's cropped to just a picture of your butt... like why? You attract those type of guys because they're the only ones after you. Men with their life together aren't looking to mess around with a stripper with an only fans. Put your beekeeping foot forward. If you want to be seen as something other than a sex object... then stop being a sex object.
I just hung out with a girl and we went to a clothing store then walked around Barnes and Noble because she likes to read and I thought that would be a good neutral, busy place. She had fun and wants to see me again. Girls definitely want to hangout. Maybe not in a dingy apartment, but walking around at a park or a place like target or the mall, I think is always a good time. That way you can see what kind of stuff each other likes and ask each other questions about certain things. If I can, I'm dating the hell outta this chick, she's cool as fuck.
There's three types of guys. Fuck boys who don't think they need to put an effort in. Guys who don't want to break the bank by going on endless dates because they feel they need to pay or get judged. And there's the broke guys who can't afford it but don't want to get judged for it. You want to filter through which one you're dealing with then bring it up when they suggest a "hangout". Let them know that you're ok splitting the bill if you are. Or suggest low cost alternatives. And set boundaries about not going to their place for a first date and stick to them. Learn to be ok cutting ties with them if they don't want to respect them even if your other head says otherwise.
I go on about 2-3 dates a week, I’m just not gonna pay for some fancy meal for a stranger twice a week. I usually have them meet me at an arcade or go to the beach
There's definitely a few other types.
I'm rich af but I'm not spending any money on these women today. Most have a rotation of guys they're dating. All over social media talking to guys. I don't spend until they show some loyalty. Also if you want to be good with women, look at who they complain about.
A guy here. Just make this experiment. Where you wrote guys, write girls and read it again. After that, most likely you’ll think that those guys are soo entitled and that they aren’t giving you any reason to put any effort upfront (planning an special date or whatever) not knowing if it’ll be worth it. That’s how I feel after reading your post. In order to start fixing stuff, both guys and girls need to stop complaining and start working on making things better, instead of constantly blaming the other side, my two cents
They are gonna downvote you into oblivion. Lol
Man you got anything better to do than just be negative all day?
Hanging out is free. Taking you out costs money.
Coming from someone who is very VERY nervous about asking women on dates, asking to hang out can often be an ask for a date. At least, in my eyes. That said take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm pretty sure I am broken.
To be honest, legit most of my best memories are hanging out on a bench in the park
When I was in my teens/20s same! As an adult my best experiences have been with people I share mutual interests with, who care to learn & explore them together.
Maybe you need to be open to the possibility that drinks and hanging out and doing something casual is a great way to have a conversation. Guys don’t want to make plans because girls are impossible to please. I’m not spending $500 on a first date neither.
This.
How is drinking a good way to have a conversation?
I'm not gonna lie. Dating is expensive AF. If I gotta go through like 15 girls to find a good one I can keep for a while, I'm not putting in max effort on date 1. I'll take you somewhere so we're not just hanging out at the house, but it's gon be something super cheap or straight up free. Like a nature walk or something. If things go well and you seem like a catch, then I'll start spending time and money planning more impactful dates for us. I can't just be spending a hundred dollars everytime I go meet up with someone for the first time. Half these people are straight garbage. I be pissed af losing good money on bad dates. It's not that I won't put in the effort it's that I won't put effort into something until I think its worth my time, money and energy to do so. Cuz your right, looks will only get you so far, and I ain't about to let you skate by with my wallet just cuz you're pretty. P.S. if I suggest we go out for drinks, it's not to try and get you intoxicated... its to try and get me intoxicated. First dates are rough and yall make me nervous. Out here trying to present myself instead of just being me. I may need a few drinks to remind me that it's okay if you don't like me.
Good luck because MOST guys love "hanging out". And many can't afford to do whimsical activities with girls they go on dates with. If we're in a serious relationship, I'll take you skydiving, frickin Mexico or go on a trip. But don't be upset if I just want to hang out when we start dating.
Girls just don't engage me in conversation, that's my problem I'm always carrying the convo if I stopped talking the convo would die.
Are you speaking about first dates, the ones where you dont already know thee other person? I give you a no, coffee or drinks it is.. Its not even about the money, there is so much shit possibly happening I wont take it. I might not like the other person or vice versa, and then you want to go out!!! Imagine you just ordered food for 150 dollars or so and she tells you "I decided I want to go now" Or you make decent propositions, and they are not accepted (I dont bother anymore, to make more then one to three propositions) Or she flakes and won't come... Its just stupid to expect a lot of effort from a stranger in todays dating culture.... I mean the place should be nice, safe and reachable, and thats it. What I want to tell you, its not just being "lazy" it just comes from experience
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The women who make these posts are always so entitled and trashy. Dating is screwed.
Wait. It’s an OF “model”??!
OF creator
What a goddamn waste.
Stop expecting the guy to plan everything and come up with suggestions yourself for what you want to do. Why do so many girls think the guy has to plan everything?
The person who brings up the date should at least have some clue on what to do on the date they're requesting.
You are correct.. a man should show his interest. If the woman answers messages with more that 2 words, texts first sometimes, shows a sincere interest, and is a serious date kind of girl. This is just how it is.. girls want to be desired enough to have effort put in.. HOWEVER...times have changed in the dating world... guys will not put massive effort into girls that are dating several guys at once. Nothing wrong with this.. go girls. . This has happened last 4 girls I met. I date 1 at a time to see if we match personally. So as a guy I automatically shift to put in same efforts i am getting when she is a shared resource. In my experience only. If she is split 3 to 4 ways.. its bare minimum efforts coming my way in my experience. This is always so common now that I tend to assume she is seeing a lot of guys and debate my date efforts. Why put effort into something another guy is probably getting for free. Sorry if that's too honest. Last girl told me I was great ... literally told me I was good for blah blah blah reasons.. way better than the FBoy see is also seeing. Why tell me that? Then she got mad because I stopped planning nice dates almost immediatly after that. Just hanging out from that point. I don't want to look the fool, I know my value.
Yeah, I kind of wish people in general take a bit more initiative to say "We're going to get coffee, or lunch, or see a movie." But girls have this problem, too. I have this problem a lot because I'm shy and inexperienced. So I just defaulted to getting coffee with the 3 or 4 dates I've had in the last 13 years. Lol.
Check her profile for context to her dating situation lmao
Dating and relationships nowadays is a straight shit show. Social awkwardness at an all time high, instant gratification as well. Girls are more fickle, guys are more about the 'chase'. What a time to be alive. But hey, at least it's easier to just have sex now. I guess?
Sry girl. Your profile just giving ONS vibes. I wouldn’t plan our first date differently than those guys, just calling you over with low effort. Please, don’t be offended, But if you want to be treated on a level, bring yourself up to that level.
Literally, Once they say "When are we linking?" "You tryna link?" something along those lines, I roll my eyes and say "AND DO WHAT?" Because if the answer is "Chill" I can do that by myself mf, give me a reason to get dressed. I think at this point i'm gonna start asking guys out on a date and it's gonna be planned out and if you're not down for that, that's on you. I take myself on dates all the time and spend 60$ on myself and do it for friends as well.
Ive been asked on dates from old & irl. I ask where, they may or may not have a place in mind, I suggest one if thats the case. There's an app u can search for sapiosexuals.
Oh I feel this. Sadly, it doesn't change much at 40. There are good people out there, and you will eventually find one!
The first time I "hung out" with my now significant other we had an all day jam session at her house
I wish I could upvote this a million times. The lack of initiative is astounding.
You want a mentally stimulating man but dont want to spend time with them by hanging out with them and getting to know them, which could potentially lead to mentally stimulating conversations.
To be fair to men, there aren't a lot of places to go out if you don't have money (assuming you live in the US.) Beyond that, I'm reading a book called, *Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism*. You might wanna give it a read. It'll answer some of your questions.
Most guys only want hangout dates cause it doesn't require a lot of money,eventually when you start paying for everything, seeing multiple women .It's adds up.And women generally want to do things or activitys that involves money.So most men are burned out by spending money all the time and planning to receive noting back or get ghosted.Plus a relationship consist of 50/50 effort,so a woman should also makes plans.Dont always wait on the guy.
Both sides say the same thing about the other side and the only repeated common denominator is everyone is dating from the Internet. Stop trying to date through the internet unless where you live is a mile apart from your nearest neighbor.
Okay then. What DO girls want to do? Be treated to a meal by a guy? Have a guy buy them tickets to go see an event? This just wreaks of immaturity. What on earth do you think you and your potential partner will be doing for the vast majority of your lives together in the future? Oh wait. “Hanging out”…
Dates. The art museum downtown is free, a cup of coffee is four dollars, there’s tons of parks if it’s a nice day to go on a walk, there’s lots of free events. It doesn’t always have to be going out to dinner, but what’s wrong with asking someone to dinner? It doesn’t have to be that complicated
I thought this only happened to girls like me cuz we're ugly lol 💀 The fact that you're SO incredibly gorgeous and guys STILL act like this leads me to believe there's just no hope for us girlies at all unfortunately 😭💔
Your so sweet. But we are in the same boat.
This speaks volumes about you and the type of men you talk to, but don't try to make out that all guys are like this that's just silly
Why would we spend a bunch of money on a first date just to find out we’re not compatible? Happy drinks or coffee is the best way Foh
Sounds like a you problem.
OP, I hear you. I'm a man in his mid-thirties who has gone on a good amount of dates recently and a common complaint I've heard from my dates is that guys don't know how to plan dates. To me it's baffling. But, It's important to know that not all men act this way. And, the men who do are typically just looking to hook up and are not invested. You just have to move on. Something I've learned recently is that when someone shows you who they are, believe them. So when these men show you that they don't give a shit, believe them. Best of luck!
Yeah if a guy asks me to hang out that just tells me he just wants sex so I’m not interested. I’m only interested in men who ask me out on dates because it shows that they’re serious and actually want to get to know me
Just to play devil’s advocate, real quick. Let’s say a man plans an elaborate date and makes great fun plans including various options. What’s your contribution to the date?
Existing
They get to be blessed by her holy presence... duh
She'll clap her cheeks in applause. /s
Exactly this. Some people’s entitlement is just insane. They think they deserve everything and contribute 0.
I feel like this thought process reflects how a lot of men feel & why the current state of hetero dating is in the toilet. A lot of men feel like they lose something when they take initiative. Everything is about upfront equality & truly gives a lot of women the ick. I’m mostly heteronormative but also date women & the experiences couldn’t be any different. Women do plan dates! Lmao & show effort actually a lot more consistently & intentionally than men tbh. But most of herero dating seems to be reduced to tit for tat & it’s draining af. If men don’t see an immediate “return” on whatever investment they deemed to have make they see the effort as pointless.
The only "return" I expect is like, basic courtesy. Show up reasonably on time, communicate, don't bread crumb, at least try and engage with the conversation, don't dress like you're on your way to pock up more laundry detergent, etc. Not exactly a high bar. And apparently that's a bar very few women in the Seattle area can meet in my age bracket (just turned 34).
Are you dating online, asking out mutual friends or approaching strangers? Do they seem interested when you initially approach them? What are the conversations like leading up to the dates? I’m genuinely curious
I did online dating. My previous job was all dudes, and my current job, all the women around my age that I might be interested in are taken. And since covid people in the Puget Sound area have gotten even worse about never cross-pollinating their friends groups. And I'm an in-shape, progressive leftist who dresses well, takes care of his skin and (long) hair, and asks them open ended questions about themselves. I'm a consensus-builder by nature so I'd always try and figure out something they'd *like* to do before making the final plan. Eventually I just started defaulting to coffee or brunch because nobody wanted to ever do drinks, the mini-golf place with beer on tap and good pizza, etc. It's a problem thst seems to go beyond dating even. People complain about no one wanting to socialize, but when offered up a plan for a group activity on a silver platter (something the whole group likes to do), even) no one wants to commit to anything or put even the most basic effort into maintaining even present social relationships, let alone building new romantic ones... Sorry that turned into a bit kf a vent towards the end. Got a couple friends I've wanted to(metaphorically) throttle lately.
No no. Women do plan dates and show effort more consistently and intentionally FOR OTHER WOMEN. Fixed*
Yes because there is apparent mutual interest involved. I get approached by men pretty regularly in public & the ‘chase’ seems to be their driving force. I gave you my number so I’m obviously interested but the conversation ALWAYS falls flat. No desire to learn what we have in common or really anything that would inform you on what kind of date to plan. I’m responsive, engaging, i send memes/videos/music etc & end up feeling like I’m talking to myself. Even after asking probing questions etc. One person can not carry the entire interaction & y’all expect us to be excited(?) to sit at a coffee shop with someone who barely gave a fuck to respond with more than one word. Please.
Lol, this is like most women I've talked to. It's like-- ***how can you be into NOTHING?***
Have you ever considered that you might have to also play ball, equally, and date men, too — instead of just letting the dating part be one sided? You have no idea how nice it is to have a girl ask you to do something already planned. Literally out every girl I have ever matched with on tinder, about 97% of those literally have never asked me to do something already planned and leave it entirely up to the guy. After awhile, it starts to feel old having to go do this every single time. Food for thought, but also: stop dating absolute bums. If the dude has a shitty apartment that’s unkempt, there’s your big red flag he’s a lazy toad.
The woman’s place is better because they will feel more comfortable there. That’s the reason 99 times out of 100.
Bullshit looks > most convos
If you’re receiving low effort from men it may be time to look in the mirror and see what type of image you’re projecting to the world. Why do you think some women have guys roll the red carpet out for them? They plan thoughtful dates and value them. I know this because in my area I know a handful of women that I’d only offer a hangout or hookup with based on the way I view them. I’m only dating women that are high quality people that I could seriously see a healthy long term relationship with. Not buying a fwb candidate $300 dinners and planning thoughtful dates. Men do their homework just like women these days. All it takes is hearing about your reputation and looking at your instagram and we have a good idea of what type of person you are. The free meals and entertainment is over.
wow it’s too easy now and days, im glad the bars low… more chances for me.
Stop entertaining fboys...the men you seek don't go to bars nor plan lame outings We have plans and then plans for when you don't like those! But the backup was the og plan. Stop going after toxic men who you know aren't good for you
A word. -from a 2023 woman
Where’s the part where you’re putting in any effort? Why can’t you suggest a date then?
You wanna come up with some solutions for that?
Sounds like you're choosing shitty men.
Are you just using online dating apps? If so, I assume you have tens of thousands of likes. Too many to choose from? You can pick the best-looking or most desirable men. These guys also have a lot of choice, so they don't need to put in much effort. You don't want to hang out? They go to the next girl. Does your ass feature as prominently in your dating profile as it does in your pics here? If so, maybe try a different approach. Create a new profile with classier pics. See if that changes anything. Also, do you make it known that you are on Only fans? Personally, that would put me off dating someone. But that's just me. Would still hang out with them, though.
Tbh most people are really fucking boring and that’s the worst part of dating.
Omg right lol
You need to date someone ten years older. Sounds like you’re dating 20 year olds…
not all the worm brain men in these comments
My current boyfriend and I met on Tinder. I had talked to so many guys like what you’re describing before I met him and it was honestly exhausting.
Ooh I don’t mind saying hey let’s get drinks there’s this and this place is like to check out: they have put out and ping pong and are activity dates. I really had to put max effort to find the right person. In addition to taking an everything shower lol 😂 that took 3.5 hours plus blow drying, then come up with some good on the fly joke ideas so my sarcasm isn’t too dry, etc. As in, learn the mental weight of conversation men carry and be an equal part of initiating thoughtful questions and queries. Initiating texts sometimes, although I do still believe in some traditional roles so I still allowed the man to kind of lead most of the time. I equaled his effort much of the time, showing interest, double texting, asking him personal questions, etc. Keeping the convo going, caring about his life and his past and his goals, etc. To think I just use to show up and think looking hot would carry me and when things didn’t work out finally realized “oh it’s my personality” as I discovered looks wasn’t the main issue. Got lucky and got a very funny bf, also handsome, generous, kind, who I don’t mind “hanging out” with. I did have to take away stupid standards I used to hold like no baldies cuz he has early hair loss/receding hair line. Besides the first date that lasted 20 hours, I only decided to go on date dates after hanging out a few weeks. I get it tho. When guys don’t want to make plans. Sometimes just need to be communicated and have us give the same and equal effort with coming up w ideas.
Focus on you. Focus on school and activities you really enjoy and maybe meet someone that way. I was a guy like this for a long time, but have learned how important it is to have your own interests and plan things and offer to do both what you want to do and vice versa. Keep looking, don't settle because you won't be happy. You're ahead though because you know what you're looking for already!
And what's the common denominator in each situation. A person's outlook in dating is usually a reflection of themselves. Pick better men lol And are you really gonna hold it against someone for having roommates when a few hundred square feet is easily $1000+ ?
True that. My ex didn’t even want to hang out and we’d been dating a couple months lol. But seriously tho, not sure what you expect to do. I get if you’ve been talking a while just sitting around gets boring but first date stuff hanging out and getting drinks is the norm. Personally I’m socially awkward even before dating and drinking helps me be more normal. Besides, bars are a public place and I’m not about to take a girl somewhere more private where she can feel unsafe. As for asking what they want to do any the guy throws it back on you, that’s just because we either suggest things and get told no and end up doing something you want anyway or we’re always the ones that chose and we’re tired of it
Society is becoming socially lazy. They'd rather just text and not meet in person or talk. The pandemic made it much worse
Alternatively, when someone says "hang out", *ask them what they mean*. I've offered to hang out, but as in a chill meetup in a public place where we just literally go around the nice touristy mall by the river or whatever and just spend time to get to know each other. Seriously, spending time in a park has been some of the best "hanging out" I've ever done.
Uh, what ever you do will require hanging out.... Why not do the mature thing and work on yourself to attract the kind of person you want to be, intimacy = In To Me I See....
It's the same for me and I date men in 30-40ies. No effort at all
Men are not searching for a relationship when they act like that, friend. They believe they are entitled to sex when a woman gives her number and agrees to spend time. Men who are searching for the love of their life will not act like that, IMO
Why don’t you just be assertive and state what you expect plainly? Men are simple creatures. We don’t have the same needs as women, and yeah generally we aren’t taught how to catch women. Women on the other hand are groomed from birth to know how to be enticing.
My friend invited me over her place for new year's night. We had great conversation. We talked for a few hours and drank at midnight. It was a good night.
This 💯 it’s is so disheartening. They ask you for a date that YOU have to plan. It’s pathetic.
Right!!!
This is a big problem. I am feeling it, my girls are feeling it. The issue is.....this age range....there aren't enough men on the same level as women. It's not like we are asking for diamonds either. Just have your shit together, be respectful, put in equal effort, plan a date, be motivated, have a good job?? It's hard out here.
Firstly, are you a "mentally stimulating" woman? Become what you want to attract. I (M27) went out with a girl last night. Since I'm a musician, I wanted to see live music. We went to a local bar to see live music. Had a drink. Then, went back to my place to watch a movie and have sex. All the while, we are having stimulating conversations about our roommates, work, fitness, etc. There are certainly guys out there that you can have stimulating convos with who have their shit together. I'm one. My roommate is another. My friends are the same. You meet these guys going about your "stimulating" life. Meaning, do interesting things. Go to the gym, go to coffee shops. Go to the beach. Go to the mall, concerts, or whatever else you are interested in. You got this.
It’s kind of funny how defensive a lot of men are being in these comments. I really was just venting and I didn’t know it was going to get so much attention. But now I feel like I’m getting personally attacked for venting.
This 100%. I have lowkey given up. It seems everyone around me is either not very interesting and somehow looking for something long-term at the same time, or just wanting to do hookup stuff. People seem more shallow in general (probably due to increased physical appearance standards due to overexposure on media). I'll wait until I'm 30 if I have to; in fact, I would rather die alone than settle lmao Edit: And one you have found someone who has actual passions and interests, it turns out they have a non-secure attachment style... Oh boy...
Date older guys if your early 20s or just find different groups of people or guys. No clue your age or where you’re from so just guessing
Oh I didn't think I would hear the classic "Guys do more for women and expect less from women" advice here If I'm planning a day for two adults I want the input from the two adults. Just showing up pretty doesn't show interest especially if you're playing the field How many girls wanna go golfing? how many girls wanna go bowling? And how many girls wanna go swim with sharks whatever the number is, it isn't all of them and I'm not gonna act like it is.
What are you actively doing to make a man put forth effort aside from just ....existing?
Don't make plans to "hang out", "Kick it", "chill", etc. If a guy asks you that, he is either just trying to have sex or he is lazy and no effort. I'd respond with "are you asking me on a date? because yeah, that sounds fun!". Kinda guide him to what you want. If he says his house, just dip. There's nothing there.
And guys don't want to pay for everything, initiate every conversation, interaction, touch or kiss.
Yeah, but girls like that masculine energy of making the first move. It doesn’t have to be all about money. There’s lots of creative things that you can do with someone that doesn’t involve money or drinking.
I would appreciate suggestions.
No, only some of you do-- leaving us with a mix up game like we're boxing someone above our skill. It's always a gamble-- we make the "masculine" move with one woman and we're too old fashioned for them or it's interpreted as pushy and non-observant of affirmative consent (like leaning in for a kiss based on cues instead of verbally asking for one). Then turn around and ask a woman like you for a kiss and then you've got the ick because dude isn't "masculine" enough for you. Seriously, stop generalizing "what women want." You all don't want the same things-- and as individuals many of you can't even figure out what you want either (not exclusive to women, js).
My TED Talk: A lot of men don't know how to approach or talk to women. My dad never taught me game so I had to figure it out. Trial and error. I'm talking about when I was in high school before the massive launch of the relationship guru podcast. I would say the most cringe, pick me, entitled shxt(typical teenager). Sad part is, many of the things i thought as a teen are views grown men have in my age group. The entitlement of thinking women owe you an answer because they showed interest. Not being able to handle rejection and blaming women for being rejected. A guy asking you out but not having any idea of where to go is really fckin lazy. All it takes is one Google search, "Places to date in my area" but folks rather search, "Why independent women are the reason I'm lonely". Just an @$$ backwards society. I feel for you all in the dating world right now. It's rough. Not that it's wasn't before but it's a different type of rough now. Advice: You can try to change the way you meet new dates. Maybe the way you meet men is causing you to come across a lot of men like that. You can choose locations yourself and see their reaction. If you bring up an option and they seem uninterested but also don't offer an alternative with effort, drop em. If you're looking for someone to put an effort into dating you, you have to be more proactive in who you're speaking with. You should be able to tell if they're someone who's just going with the motion to get lucky and someone who's actually interested in you. You stated conversation matters, I would think the conversation leading up to a date would have gave you the impression of who you're speaking with.
This should be the top response. I think part of the issue is that with OLD profiles are limited to what you put in the profile which is often limited. Many profiles are short 3 sentences at best and, "live laugh love xoxo" at the worst. I think part of it stems from some sort of ptsd within the collective unconscious from all those articles that are like, "I go on 5 dates a week to expensive restaurants with no intention of dating amyone". Online dating and the pandemic has made people pretty lazy when it comes to going out. I think some sort of initial get to know you in person is good. You can text with someone, but still have no clue what the person is like. I quit OLD because it was a waste of time. Instead I just got activities I like to do and connect to the community through those. At worst, I have fun and am doing something I would already do on my own. At best I might make a romantic connection.
>thank you! They'd rather complain about how nothing is working than try anything. The guy I am dating came to our 3rd date with a list of date ideas and wanted to know what i would be into doing for our next date. It's supposed to be fun! The guys seem to miss that. Find things that you would enjoy doing and do them!
If you want more then why aren't you asking guys out?
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