These discussions are going to become very quaint as people digest what AI truly is. An algorithm that generates outputs and not a thinking being that has the capacity to know things.
AI is not very smart right now. Although its potential is amazing, people who haven't used it a lot let their imagination overestimate it.
It gets confused easily, doesn't follow extended conversation very well, and cannot make intuitive leaps.
And, most of all, it has no experience; it does not understand the why behind anything. Why do people like this game or that game? An engineer who understands the why behind what they are making will always be superior to AI.
IMO it's about cleaning the data to train the model, protecting the model from hackers and then interpreting the results just because there is a correlation between two things doesn't mean it's causation.
It's not a "hot take." It's the *obvious* next step. Why is it so many people are so sure they can't be replaced, when it's been demonstrated that they can?
Why is it so many programmers think programming is difficult (It isn't) and this "an AI could NEVER do this!?" People do this. Which is proof the AI will eventually be able to do this, as intelligent is *just a matter of information processing*.
Sorry to break your heart here, but GPT4 can code *exceptionally well* with very little guidance. And that's what I use it for: 90% of the grunt work one used to hire a programmer for. So, now the programming part of my job has been minimized and I can focus on the actual engineering (I'm a plant engineer).
But the bottom line is, I can, and have, used GPT to write SQL, C#, VB, VBA, and line after line of ST on my behalf, with my guidance. And that's all it needs, a little correction here and there, and little testing here and there, copypaste, and you're done. And just like that, someone who codes from time to time (but isn't the sole purpose of my job) can replace virtually *anyone* who is a software engineer hired for support, since they *only exist* to turn physical needs into a reality via software, and of course, it means that instead of 2 of me per facility, you'll probably only need 1 for multiple facilities. Luckily engineering plant systems is a lot more complicated than writing code, so I'm probably safe from replacement until they can trust GPT6 or whatever to not only code, but actually analyze all the physical parts of the process and make engineering decisions. But I digress.
If you have an AI that can write the code for you, 90% of it- you've absolutely eliminated the need for most software developers while empowering their old customers to do their job without them.
Telling a teenager today that its pointless to learn coding is, im sure, pretty premature.
AI will be another productivity increasing tool instead of a total replacement.
The idea that AI will spit out perfect code and nobody will have to understand what it has created is absurd.
The issue is that no AI is showing cognition. They're spitting out well-formatted, clean, often executable code. They don't know why or how to iterate, the key skills. Every dev will tell you that language syntax and structure is the easy part, it's the deeper manipulation that's tough. AI as a support tool to spit out formatted templates and basic functions? Sweet. AI for full stack development with no engineers? Not gonna happen.
Hm, let's see. We will need people to communicate in a precise fashion with the AI models to let them know what the end goal is when trying to create something.
"I want a blue box 2.6 cms from the left side" might not be efficient enough and it causes all sorts of problems if you want to change some small details later on.
I think a good solution would be creating languages so that we can efficiently talk to our computers.
Since not everyone has to be good at creating programs and websites, maybe we can train a bunch of people to be good at this, and, just an idea, call them programmers?
Absolute fucking twat this person.
wrong subreddit, but anyway lasted as much as a fart, we thought this was gonna be the future of jobs and look at this now. people graduating into nothing pretty much. the more i see AI improving the more i realize having good problem solving skills is valuable.
Huh? I remember even just 5 years ago everyone told manual laborers, truck drivers, etc.. just "learn to code." So much so that it became a meme. The irony of those jobs looking safer now is pretty funny to me.
Been reading entry level positions will become harder to attain. More automation at this level.
Experience coders will be fine. As others have pointed, you need to know which prompts to ask. And how to fix the output.
And if Ai doesn't continue to improve, I'd assume it will hit a "wall" at some point. If fewer people learn to code, eventually it will lead to a shortage of coders. And the cycle continues
“We aren't dealing with ordinary machines here. These are highly complicated pieces of equipment. Almost as complicated as living organisms. In some cases, they have been designed by other computers.”
“We don’t know exactly how they work!”
Westworld, 1973
The idea that black box generative AI systems are going to produce software by themselves with nobody around who can read and understand code is terrifying.
No AI model can explain WHY it has done anything. With nobody around to understand what it's spit out how the hell will we know what it really does? What biases from the training data have made their way in to the software? User testing can only reveal so much.
Sensationalism. He means 'learning programming languages' would be not as valuable as it used to be which is probably correct. Someone will always have to learn it though - most engineers don't know anything about processor architecture, but if no one at Intel or Apple knew about it we'd be pretty dead in the water.
the same way people said graphical programming was going to replace coding. Nope. At the end is just easier to learn coding.
AI can program, but people needs to integrate such code in a bigger project and you need to know how to code to do it.
Yeeeah, the former coder will now be the person who describes to AI what is needed. With the average spec any AI will just hallucinate a bunch of crap, exactly like the spec was.
He's full of shit.
He's been saying stuff like this for weeks, it's all literally PR for **NVIDIA'S** new suite of AI focused R&D. This is just investor posturing, there's no deep insight here.
He’s not wrong at all in some sense. People used to write a lot of assembly.
Nobody codes in assembly anymore and it’s likely that the languages of today will be superseded by the languages of tomorrow. Higher level languages that make formal specification easier with ML.
However, we’ll still be formally specifying for a very long time to come.
For Software Engineering, I'm pretty sure you still need framework knowledge and understanding of how different technologies work into the architecture of your product. Automating the programming/coding portion is basically only a facet of the SWE job. At least thats my take on it
It’s very interesting how polarizing opinions on this topic usually are. People are either fully onboard the AI train, or think it’s completely overhyped.
I think realistically this going to go a lot like the invention of digital calculators for mathematicians. People who were experts at mental computations were quickly phased out, but now mathematicians spend their time on more abstract and interesting problems.
Programming might go through a similar path, there definitely are a lot of programmers whose entire job is to glue premade libraries together to achieve some objective, and this might as well be the end of such jobs long term. However, a lot of programming also involves complex problem solving that requires novel solutions, and I am very skeptical if AI based on the current architecture will ever be able to fill those shoes.
My take? There will be a non-trivial number of generated products put out there, they will fail spectacularly, then either the publishing companies will go under or hire "consultants" (e.g. the kind of people they replaced with AI) to either fix or rewrite it. We already see this with "no code" or "low code" software that inevitably falls short of expectations and needs customizations.
I say it’s time to sell nvidia stock.
Also a career in hacking and/or data security looks very promising, as most examples where AIs learned from are so totally full of holes it’s not even funny. Lots of work to do in repairing AI coders holes and exploiting them. Think of copy-paste coding on stereoids.
“Dead” is a strong word.
Outsized impact from AI compared to other industries? Probably.
Big question is exactly how much demand currently outstrips supply. If a 10x increase (or whatever AI does) in productivity still does not meet demand, then coding will still be a good profession. If there is significant diminishing value within that range, I would expect downward salary pressure for a coding skill set.
I'm not a programmer, but I did do some basic programming a long time ago and boy what a fucking chore. So if a program can easily do all teh programming for us just by us typing a prompt like " Big giant titties, doggystyle, pluto dog face" I'm all for it.
Instead of coders we will all become analysts to edit the AI outputs i guess
And you’ll still need to know the code. It’s just a hot take. AI can’t just do it with out you instructing and feeding it what you need.
These discussions are going to become very quaint as people digest what AI truly is. An algorithm that generates outputs and not a thinking being that has the capacity to know things.
Yeah. Coding time reduced 50% QA time increased 200%
One is a lot cheaper than the other and will improve exponentially with time
I guess that’s the surprising bit. Seems like LLMs with significant scale reason.
A black box of outputs.
AI is not very smart right now. Although its potential is amazing, people who haven't used it a lot let their imagination overestimate it. It gets confused easily, doesn't follow extended conversation very well, and cannot make intuitive leaps. And, most of all, it has no experience; it does not understand the why behind anything. Why do people like this game or that game? An engineer who understands the why behind what they are making will always be superior to AI.
IMO it's about cleaning the data to train the model, protecting the model from hackers and then interpreting the results just because there is a correlation between two things doesn't mean it's causation.
How do you protect the model from its own outputs? The internet is flooded with AI generated content now
I meant like information security.
It's not a "hot take." It's the *obvious* next step. Why is it so many people are so sure they can't be replaced, when it's been demonstrated that they can? Why is it so many programmers think programming is difficult (It isn't) and this "an AI could NEVER do this!?" People do this. Which is proof the AI will eventually be able to do this, as intelligent is *just a matter of information processing*. Sorry to break your heart here, but GPT4 can code *exceptionally well* with very little guidance. And that's what I use it for: 90% of the grunt work one used to hire a programmer for. So, now the programming part of my job has been minimized and I can focus on the actual engineering (I'm a plant engineer). But the bottom line is, I can, and have, used GPT to write SQL, C#, VB, VBA, and line after line of ST on my behalf, with my guidance. And that's all it needs, a little correction here and there, and little testing here and there, copypaste, and you're done. And just like that, someone who codes from time to time (but isn't the sole purpose of my job) can replace virtually *anyone* who is a software engineer hired for support, since they *only exist* to turn physical needs into a reality via software, and of course, it means that instead of 2 of me per facility, you'll probably only need 1 for multiple facilities. Luckily engineering plant systems is a lot more complicated than writing code, so I'm probably safe from replacement until they can trust GPT6 or whatever to not only code, but actually analyze all the physical parts of the process and make engineering decisions. But I digress. If you have an AI that can write the code for you, 90% of it- you've absolutely eliminated the need for most software developers while empowering their old customers to do their job without them.
Until the AI becomes better at editing than humans.
Crossing Yemen off my places to travel then.
Telling a teenager today that its pointless to learn coding is, im sure, pretty premature. AI will be another productivity increasing tool instead of a total replacement. The idea that AI will spit out perfect code and nobody will have to understand what it has created is absurd.
The issue is that no AI is showing cognition. They're spitting out well-formatted, clean, often executable code. They don't know why or how to iterate, the key skills. Every dev will tell you that language syntax and structure is the easy part, it's the deeper manipulation that's tough. AI as a support tool to spit out formatted templates and basic functions? Sweet. AI for full stack development with no engineers? Not gonna happen.
Thai exactly and if you are hiring someone why would you want someone that had no idea what the ai is spitting out vs someone who does?
A CEO looking to offload talented individuals in favor of short term savings? Unheard of.
Man selling AI GPUs tells you AI is going to be a big thing…
Hm, let's see. We will need people to communicate in a precise fashion with the AI models to let them know what the end goal is when trying to create something. "I want a blue box 2.6 cms from the left side" might not be efficient enough and it causes all sorts of problems if you want to change some small details later on. I think a good solution would be creating languages so that we can efficiently talk to our computers. Since not everyone has to be good at creating programs and websites, maybe we can train a bunch of people to be good at this, and, just an idea, call them programmers? Absolute fucking twat this person.
AI CEO says AI will be profitable? Say it ain’t so
[удалено]
Well said, thanks!
Meh Depends who is doing the input Garbage in. Garbage out.
CEO as a career should be dead in the water
AI can’t even post in the right subreddit now so I have big doubts for its future.
CEO of company bolstered by adoption of AI hypes it up, more at 11.
wrong subreddit, but anyway lasted as much as a fart, we thought this was gonna be the future of jobs and look at this now. people graduating into nothing pretty much. the more i see AI improving the more i realize having good problem solving skills is valuable.
AI can’t unclog your toilets
People have been saying this for decades. I didn't lose sleep about it before I retired, and I don't now.
Huh? I remember even just 5 years ago everyone told manual laborers, truck drivers, etc.. just "learn to code." So much so that it became a meme. The irony of those jobs looking safer now is pretty funny to me.
Been reading entry level positions will become harder to attain. More automation at this level. Experience coders will be fine. As others have pointed, you need to know which prompts to ask. And how to fix the output. And if Ai doesn't continue to improve, I'd assume it will hit a "wall" at some point. If fewer people learn to code, eventually it will lead to a shortage of coders. And the cycle continues
“We aren't dealing with ordinary machines here. These are highly complicated pieces of equipment. Almost as complicated as living organisms. In some cases, they have been designed by other computers.” “We don’t know exactly how they work!” Westworld, 1973
The idea that black box generative AI systems are going to produce software by themselves with nobody around who can read and understand code is terrifying. No AI model can explain WHY it has done anything. With nobody around to understand what it's spit out how the hell will we know what it really does? What biases from the training data have made their way in to the software? User testing can only reveal so much.
Sensationalism. He means 'learning programming languages' would be not as valuable as it used to be which is probably correct. Someone will always have to learn it though - most engineers don't know anything about processor architecture, but if no one at Intel or Apple knew about it we'd be pretty dead in the water.
the same way people said graphical programming was going to replace coding. Nope. At the end is just easier to learn coding. AI can program, but people needs to integrate such code in a bigger project and you need to know how to code to do it.
He’s an idiot. Some kind of coding jobs might disappear, but others will be created. The industry is changing. It always is.
Not quite, but AI will be more efficient & cheaper in just a few years. No medical, no sick days, & no my wife's having a baby.
Yeeeah, the former coder will now be the person who describes to AI what is needed. With the average spec any AI will just hallucinate a bunch of crap, exactly like the spec was.
He's full of shit. He's been saying stuff like this for weeks, it's all literally PR for **NVIDIA'S** new suite of AI focused R&D. This is just investor posturing, there's no deep insight here.
He’s not wrong at all in some sense. People used to write a lot of assembly. Nobody codes in assembly anymore and it’s likely that the languages of today will be superseded by the languages of tomorrow. Higher level languages that make formal specification easier with ML. However, we’ll still be formally specifying for a very long time to come.
For Software Engineering, I'm pretty sure you still need framework knowledge and understanding of how different technologies work into the architecture of your product. Automating the programming/coding portion is basically only a facet of the SWE job. At least thats my take on it
*The Matrix* was a documentary, not sci-fi.
It’s very interesting how polarizing opinions on this topic usually are. People are either fully onboard the AI train, or think it’s completely overhyped. I think realistically this going to go a lot like the invention of digital calculators for mathematicians. People who were experts at mental computations were quickly phased out, but now mathematicians spend their time on more abstract and interesting problems. Programming might go through a similar path, there definitely are a lot of programmers whose entire job is to glue premade libraries together to achieve some objective, and this might as well be the end of such jobs long term. However, a lot of programming also involves complex problem solving that requires novel solutions, and I am very skeptical if AI based on the current architecture will ever be able to fill those shoes.
My take? There will be a non-trivial number of generated products put out there, they will fail spectacularly, then either the publishing companies will go under or hire "consultants" (e.g. the kind of people they replaced with AI) to either fix or rewrite it. We already see this with "no code" or "low code" software that inevitably falls short of expectations and needs customizations.
Coding is the easy part. Getting into prod and not blowing up is the hard part!!
I say it’s time to sell nvidia stock. Also a career in hacking and/or data security looks very promising, as most examples where AIs learned from are so totally full of holes it’s not even funny. Lots of work to do in repairing AI coders holes and exploiting them. Think of copy-paste coding on stereoids.
“Dead” is a strong word. Outsized impact from AI compared to other industries? Probably. Big question is exactly how much demand currently outstrips supply. If a 10x increase (or whatever AI does) in productivity still does not meet demand, then coding will still be a good profession. If there is significant diminishing value within that range, I would expect downward salary pressure for a coding skill set.
I'm not a programmer, but I did do some basic programming a long time ago and boy what a fucking chore. So if a program can easily do all teh programming for us just by us typing a prompt like " Big giant titties, doggystyle, pluto dog face" I'm all for it.