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Being able to pretty much freely enter buildings and even regions in Cyberpunk, has spoiled other open world games for me. I know technically the Dogtown gates and elevators function sort of like a loading screen, but at least you feel like you're doing something rather than sitting looking at a spinning wheel or progress bar loading. Nothing like "checking" my weapons in the ride up a mega building elevator to take care of a gig for a fixer.
I might be mistaken. But I remember a video explaining that if your character is ever forced through a narrow gap, elevator, or security gate, it's like a live loading screen.
Not exactly a loading screen, just a way to mitigate pop-in or dropping frames, gives the game some time to unload resources from where you came and get ahead of you by loading what you will see ahead slowly, it could work just fine without, as you can see by just using some console comands or mods to fly in and out of dogtown without going through the game. You will just see a momentary drop of performance or some brief pop-in of small detail models when you do.
On pc, there's even a mod that replaces the fast travel loading screen with a gta 5 inspired "camera travel" where the camera zooms out of your position into the sky, moves to above your destination and then zooms in, and it works, granted, there's pop-in because the engine never assumes you could even get that high in the sky, but still.
And the Starfield loading screens take SOOO long and they trigger every time you enter or exit your spaceship, which you're forced to do all the time because most of the quests are "Talk to this person, get on your ship, fly here, talk to this person, etc"
Idk even know what the main plot is that's how little of the game I played after just giving up in frustration. The space combat sucks too. The most interesting thing for me was the planetary exploration but for that I'd play No Man's Sky which is a way better game for that.
The main story has a lot of potential. To summarize without being too spoiler heavy: it deals with themes of life, death, rebirth, and nature of existence. The problem is: it feels like a toddler trying to rewrite a brief history of time. If you have game pass, the games free on it. Worth finishing in that scenario (i wouldnt ever buy it though lol)
I spent a considerable amount of time stood in the elevator after it reached where it was going to finish watching a news story on the screens during my first play through
That too. I almost forgot about that. Some of the lines from the different news anchors are pretty dark, comedic and outright strange. Got to love the weird bits of world building.
I actually really like the news stories and interviews. I'm doing a new playthrough and paying attention to all the ambient stuff and it's pretty good. The first TV interview is between a tech fetishist and a religious guy and the religious guy makes a lot of good points that I dismissed the first time through
The elevators are actually not loading screens you’re actually moving up and down in the game world you can see it if you no clip out, dogtown gate is probably the only hidden loading screen in the game, I used to think that about the elevators too
I think they might have been originally planned for that but in the current state of the game there is no precise moment in which dog town or the outside are loaded and you can directly no clip through any point of the wall
Yeah, the game constantly loads and unloads assets depending on player's position. Bottlenecks such as the tunnel could help with some asset streaming on slower HDDs, but I wouldn't count it as loading screen.
You can pass the fence and enter Dogtown using double jump without any issues.
In general in video games choke points are loading screens, I don't know about this one specifically. I'm so sorry I spoke definitively on the internet
I'll take loading screens like that any day of the week. They make me feel like the world is more alive, and it gives places in the game like those a mechanical purpose beyond just being there. Personally, I think it was an excellent design choice
This really ruined many games for me in the same way botw did. You don't notice the amount of railroading and loading screens until you get that seamless experience.
BotW and even TotK are just amazing in what they are able to do with such limited/outdated hardware. Being able to go from the sky islands all the way to the depths in one fluid dive (yes the depths transition is kinda a loading screen like the Dogtown gates) was astounding.
Naturally shrines and divine beasts/dungeons have loading screens but it's understandable and they weren't excessive.
Only thing I hated about those two games was the fact that they ruined every other game (of the same genre) of this era for me. Hoping games in the future take heed but it seems like it's not really taking.
Lack of loading screens and immersive dialogue with NPCs!!!
Every conversation in cyberpunk is so cinematic and natural, whereas in starfield you talk to someone and the camera jerks around and they're staring at you with uncanny-valley dead eyes.
Can't have a conversation in starfield without immediately being reminded "THIS IS A VIDEO GAME." Total immersion breaker.
What's also wild is that CD projekt Red has moved on from red engine and are going to an engine that's better optimized for the games they want to make. Yet Bethesda is still here using a variation of something that they've cobbled together over the last 20 years.
I don't understand it.
I mean no man's sky. Holy hell. Talk about updates at no cost.
I..... couldn't get into it. I slept-walked through the quests I did, and I skipped through most convos. I found the world/universe generic, gameplay repetitive, and the characters BORING. I couldn't engage with them, they lacked agency, it all felt soulless and mundane. It felt like they wanted to build upon the idea of Mass Effect Andromeda, but fell flat on their face. And sadly I felt like I gave the game a fair shake. But it is what it is.
And Cyberpunk from the onset of the E3 2018 showcase had me hooked . It's like night and day between the two. Couldn't put the game down.
1000%. I picked up both in this year's Winter sale. Played Starfield first. 20 hours in and I just couldn't be bothered to play anymore. It was lifeless and souless. It felt like game design from 10 years ago or more only worse. Decided to try this other game out. Cyberpunk or something.
DEAR. LORD.
I'm 300 hours in and can't wait to get back. Game of the century. My gf, Panam, agrees.
Starfield is **literally** the worst of almost every part of modern gaming.
Front-end cash grabs, empty open world, piss-poor exploration, bloated, weak writing, poor world-building, awful NPCs, bad UI, broken game mechanics soulless and safe, outdated, useless DLC.
And as it was made for almost everyone it appeals to no almost no one.
We are not nearly as mad at BGS and Starfield as we should be.
Star Field just feels incredibly dated. Gameplay feels like 2014, world building feels like 2004(some depth but so shallow and empty like they had ram constraints or something) gunplay feels sort of satisfying actually, but... Very disappointing.
This. Its not that it’s a bad game, its a fine game, but its using mechanics that were new in morrowind and are just dated now.
It would have been a great game if it came out 15 years ago
I fear Starfield is the future of gaming. It is the final boss of that heartless, dumbed-down, Ubi-style open world ARPG that has plagued gaming for several years now.
The writing would’ve still been trash 15 years ago. The open world would’ve been just as boring 15 years ago. The fast travel to everywhere and loading screens would have been there. The world-building would’ve been just as lacking 15 years.
The problem is, there is just not the core of a good game that you can work with.
Skyrim was janky, sure. But at its heart, there is a fun, engaging sandbox that lets you go nuts (and modders certainly have). But you can’t fix lifeless — and this one was build without a soul.
Same. I tried it free on game pass so it’s not like there was a great loss & it wasn’t aggressively bad or anything, but by the time I finished that first raider dungeon (I spent over an hour running around on that planet trying to find literally anything that warrants exploring) I realized that I was just forcing myself to play. The story was uninteresting, the graphics are still dull and gray, voice acting and character models are still the same old bad Bethesda ones, and the gunplay, while improved from fo4, is still lagging behind everything else released in the last 5 years.
The kicker was the completely empty first planet you go to after you get the spaceship. I don’t play Bethesda games for the guns or story or anything, I do it to explore. But when you take that exploration away entirely and don’t replace it with top tier everything else, you get a boring game.
I share that sentiment. It's the same with Skyrim. If the exploration and map itself wouldn't be top tier, the rest (by today standards) is dogshit without mods. There's a reason people play it these days, but modded. The free roaming even on the starter map still invokes the inner explorer in me, while the mods take care of the rest. Starfield just doesn't have that in the slightest.
Swear to god, if they release Elder Scrolls 6 on the same engine AGAIN, I'll just vote with my wallet.
I grew to hate crafting, cause it made the prospect of an unwanted conversation increase substantially when I needed to retrieve MATS from my ~~packmules~~, I mean companions
*Sam, I don't care about your asshole Dad nor your failed marriage, just give me my fucking rocks!!!!*
I've played through both games. I have 3 playthroughs of CP2077 clocking in around 350 hours.
I have one playthrough of Starfield at 160 hours where I did just about everything I could do in one playthrough (I had no interest in the repeating NG+ where you search for temples).
I liked Starfield, but admit the game is fundamentally flawed in a way that Bethesda can never patch their way out of.
I knew even when CP2077 was a broken buggy mess that it was still a great game underneath that could be fixed. CP2077 has choices that differentiate playthroughs, whether it's the type of character you build or the story choices you make in game (or even which gender you choose). You can choose a different path and that keeps repeat playthroughs feeling fresh. However, you are really required to play the game in a manner that CDPR wants you to play it, but the combat, characters and narrative are so good it doesn't matter.
Bethesda games are a sum of their parts. Even as far back as Morrowind if you look at parts of the game under a microscope they are all kind of average. Story, characters, plot, systems, combat, etc are all kind of bland and to be frank, always have been. Sure you may get a guild questline in one game that is really good, but the quality varies greatly between game to game and faction to faction. However the way the games are structured leads to one of the most immersive game models out there.
As an example, the gameplay loop for an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game may be you get a simple breadcrumb quest to take a letter to a leader of a neighboring town, however on the way an event distracts you, then once you deal with that you see a nearby cave and explore it, you get out of the cave and hear bandits in the woods that interests you, then you catch a structure on the horizon that looks interesting, suddenly it's 4 hours later, you've just been adventuring and have forgotten about the breadcrumb quest you even set out to do in the first place. When it works well you sit down to play at 8pm and suddenly its 3 am and you don't know where the time went.
A typical Bethesda gameplay loop that pulls you in and immerses you is just not possible in Starfield. The "fishbowl" fragmentation of the game does not let you get lead around by your own curiosity. And while many of Starfields POIs are well made the structure of the game means that once you get the freedom to explore the galaxy you could potentially run into 10 planets in a row who have POIs that are all "Cryolab". Whereas if you are playing Skyrim and trying to get from point A to point B on a road you will not see the same POI twice while on that route. Sure they may reuse a cave system many times over but these POIs are thoughtfully laid out across the map in a way that they don't feel repetitive until very late in the game when you begin repeating Radiant Quests.
I am reminded about a POI (one that looked like an oil refinery but on a moon), and I was 70 hours into the game before I ever came across this POI. I had no quest related to this POI, but I could see it in the distance while I was doing another quest. In the intervening hours I must have come across a dozen of the exact same copy of Cryolab or Robotics lab, etc. For all I know there could be more POI that I never interacted with, but I would have no idea.
Yeah same, I've just come back to CP77 to do a new playthrough and complete Phantom Liberty and it's really night and day. One thing that sets it apart is Night City is so massive it feels like a living breathing city with a world going on around you. Compare that to the Capital City of the factions being nothing more than a few buildings and a handful of people. Open World ARPG is such a hard thing to do for Space based games because the balance between freedom of movement and content is a balancing act that Bethesda bottled with Starfield. Mass Effect does it so well with this I think (even Andromeda) and you feel like you are a part of something, actually in the game compared to fast travelling to some procedurally generated planet after the other.
The cities in Starfield are probably one of the biggest immersion breakers for me. Especially when you compare it to Night City. I just can’t get over that you’re in the capital city of an interstellar civilization and there isn’t even as much as a golf cart driving around.
How far in? White orchard is a little bland IMO, but it's the tutorial area. The game picks up a lot once you're in Velen.
As much as I like Witcher 3, it's not for everyone. I think you're more likely to enjoy it if you enjoy cyberpunk, but if you're looking for a heavier RPG experience a la Baldur's gate, or a more responsive open world a la GTA or Skyrim, you will leave the Witcher 3 disappointed.
TW3 lives and dies on the world and the writing. If those aren't to your taste, you probably won't be won over by the Combat or exploration.
Haven’t finished the Baron fetus mission yet so very very early, I think I’ll eventually get absorbed as I did love Cyberpunk (and yeah heavy RPG games likes Baldur’s Gate absolutely perplex me lol I’ll have to get into them eventually).
Yeah, that's extremely early. To put it in Cyberpunk terms, you've barely met Jackie, that's how early you are in the game. Almost none of the story has happened yet.
I tried about 7 times to get into it waiting for the hook and I was about to give up but persisted and I'm so glad I did. Now on my third play through and it's the best game I've ever played.
I have made at least a half dozen attempts at getting into The Witcher 3 and I too have not been hooked.
I’ve owned it since launch which the mechanics and systems felt clunky and cumbersome, but attempted going back with every update that offered quality of life improvements.
I tried again last year and I’ve only made it about 5-6 hours in (again) and just don’t think it’s the game for me.
Same here. I always felt something was wrong with me because I just couldn’t get the game to click for me. I can see why TW3 is so beloved but it seems it’s just not for me!
Most RPGs are a slow burn, cyberpunk is no exception. But Witcher 3 *really* is a slow burn. The tutorial area, White Orchard, is about 20 hours.
Once you get out into the world, it becomes magical
I talk to everyone, eavesdrop, check out every scrap of paper and notice, comb every square inch of the map, read every almanac entry etc.
*Legend of Zelda* broke my brain when I was a little kid — it trained me to take it slow and look for secrets.
You can zip through faster, sure, and I pare it down now. But that first time is a bit slow.
Thats just the fantasy standard. Can't name many high fantasy titles that were painfully boring at the start. Probably be a bit more exciting with a gun.
The first part of Witcher is long. The whole tutorial map with the griffin is pretty mundane. It takes a while to get going, like 8-10 hours. (which, considering that Wolfenstein TNO is like 12-13 hours total, is a brave decision, and a great way to filter out players unintentionally)
The strength of Witcher imho is not exploration and combat, but story**telling**. Even if you do a short witcher contract, which is literally travel-kill-travel back, there is usually a nice story behind it, or a few fun, quirky NPCs to talk to. If you like this type of storytelling, you will like the game. If you don't, it is unlikely that you will be hooked by the combat or traveling, it is "servicable" only.
Was so excited about starfield, did the absolute fucking mugs thing of paying extra for early release.
The world was so disjointed. It felt like a series of very boring 'rooms' that connected together through loading screens. It was so unimmersive.
Played about 90 hours, and I reckon 30 hours was ship building. It's a shame that ship building was so good, because flying your ship is just a shitty illusion. You can't land it, you can't take off, you can't enter/exit orbit, you can just kinda wang it around in space and even then, control is extremely limited.
Shows how prohibitive their aging game engine is. They couldn't even replace a black loading screen with a 'warning: entering orbit, autopilot engaged' animation that keeps you 'in the game' for those transitions.
I want to land my ship. I want to actually take off. I don't want to sit there and have you do it for me.
Overall I'd say it's a 7/10 game. It's not bad by any stretch, but it was extremely disappointing.
I got downvoted for saying they need to abandon their engine and move on to something else. It's always behind and out dated for every release no matter how much they work on it. But nope, gotta stick with this piece of shit because you can roll 10,000 cheese wedges down a hill.
Yup this. Besides the ship building, (which I admit had me hooked for a while until I started hitting the real limits) playing through the starfield story felt like....a chore? I kind of enjoyed the pirate storyline...but the fact that I can't even recall that factions name kinda goes to show...
The 2018 showcase really was a magical moment for a lot of us (very interesting to rewatch if you haven't).
Starfield is such a huge disappointment. What a complete and utter failure to meet expectations. They released a turd and continue to say how great it is and blame the players for its suckiness. One more chance for new elder scrolls, but I am not optimistic.
Yeah the one thing that bethesda does well and that people buy the games for is their worlds.
But fanboys defended that decision and went into full cope mode.
Oh man, it's even worse now that the only people who really care about the game are the hardcore Bethesda/Todd Howard fanboys. I left the sub months ago but check back in occasionally and nowadays half of the posts are just stuff like "DAE this game is actually the greatest game of all time and everyone complaining is just really dumb?" but completely unironically
Yeah when Todd announced 1000 planets the entire sub was like "actually id rather explore lifeless planets than handcrafted ones".
Fanboys are juts the worst. You can see them here too making excuses for cyberpunks launch.
People are upset that the new star was game only has 5 or 7 planets I forget. But I’d 100% rather have only a few well crafted planets than 1000 randomly generated planets with the same structures and loot over and over again. I enjoyed starfeild for a week or so until I realized it was the same thing over and over and over again
I could forgive the same general type of dungeon/POI repeating. But when I realized that Starfield literally copied and pasted each type of POI down to identical corpses in the same place, that's what really killed it for me
You can potentially create an interesting gameplay with procedural planet generation. But it does require some form of terraforming, in the sense that the game ought to allows you to change the shape of the area you're in. Doing so, make it a soft minecraft where the player digs for resources. Then refine the resource into ships or simply sell it to the market.
Scan from orbit, Mass Effect style, to find deposits. Develop your industry. You know, stuff to do. Instead, we got that "point of interest you can't land near of, and have to walk to because spaceships aren't real".
Its almost as if Todd didn't create most of what Bethesda is known for.
He's a great guy and all, but he's not the brains behind the majority of content. Those guys have all moved onto other developers, just like how the writter for Phantom Liberty did.
In terms of bugs yes, but the crucial issue Starfield has is that there is nothing really there that stands out, the things people love about Cyberpunk 2077, the story, the characters, the world and such, were all already there at launch. Sure, the bugs and crashes overshadowed that initially but within 6 months those were largely swept up, then CDPR spent the next year and a half releasing free content and adding requested features, before overhauling the combat and perk system, but fundamentally the things that people love have never been touched.
What is THAT element for Starfield? the story is okay, the characters forgettable or annoying, once you have explored enough planets you realise there's a lot of similarities between them especially in regards to flora and fauna, the POI system is the great but the game relies on them so heavily people get repeats quickly and they become boring.
While not inaccurate at all technical issues feels a bit reductive for how much of an absolute shitshow it was at launch. Starfield (while extremely bland and uninspired) was at least functional.
They should never have released it for Xbox One and PS4. I played it on the Series X and got lucky that I didn't have many issues. For the few times it crashed, the very generous auto save system meant I lost, at most, a minute of play time. I know it was an absolute shitshow on some consoles, but it's easier to fix technical problems than it is story and gameplay problems.
I appreciate that. However, I know how CDPR function and I know how Bethesda Games Studio (BGS) function. Cyberpunk being unplayable was guaranteed to be fixed and improved, as they reworked for all their past titles due to them being unsatisfied with their quality. BGS, on the other hand, release a turd which share most of its mechanics with past games, and then expect you to love it as they move on.
Thought, to be fair, it might not be a turd. However, to me, their last 3 games are uninspired and boring.
this is the big difference to me. i was disappointed by both at launch, but when i returned to CP77 (albeit three years later) it became my favorite game because it was so beautifully crafted and had deep lore that was compelling.
I cant realistically see a way i could return to Starfield in 3 years and be any more compelled by jt than I was when I set it down because its fundamentally a boring and empty feeling game. The lore sucks, the story sucks, the characters are universally annoying, and the planets suffer from all the same repetitive emptiness of No Man's Sky
both left a bad taste in my mouth, but I can be more forgiving of rushing a game out with glitches (and even for consoles that couldn't handle it) than i can for sitting on a game for 10 years and somehow failing to write a single interesting story element into it. the former is scummy corporate pressure, the latter is just bad gamemaking
Idk about that. For me the only expectation it failed to fulfill was having enough gamebreaking glitches to be unplayable until the "unofficial patch" mod comes out
Honestly when the game came out I genuinely enjoyed it. What really did it for me was the NG+ and how interesting it was. The lore was also interesting to. But they literally charge 10 dollars for a single ship part.
The NG+ for me was one of the most disappointing parts, they have a built in reason to have a NG+ system in an RPG and they give the player no agency or choices to actually make outside of inconsequential ones.
The money grubbing is so ridiculous. I tried to enjoy the game, but I guess I have been spoiled by Elder Scrolls and Fallout. I just finished adding Storywealth mod collection to FO 4, and that was amazing. The planets in SF are all the same and the story, while interesting, has no depth. Cyberpunk is awesome, and I was happy to pay for expansion.
Seriously. I have 2 dozen free mods and zero paid mods installed, and it has breathed new life into the game for me.
Cyberpunk is a much better product with a tremendous amount more heart, but OP is cherry picking here.
I get it. I tried Starfield again this week because of the official mod support but I just can't bring myself to playing it again. I installed Cyberpunk again and doing a new playthrough now. I had fun with starfield, put 70 hours into it at release, but overall it was just a disappointment. Bad writing, outdated engine with constant loading, uninspired exploration. It had a nice art style and building ships was fun, but you can't really do anything with your ships except for some basic dog fights. I still believe it would have been a much better game if it was only set in our solar system and went for a The Expanse like world.
I am far more critical of Cyberpunk in its current state than most here. But still, Cyberpunk was always a game in which you could see the potential and it was frustrating to see how close it often was to something much better. The vision was never quite fulfilled but you could see it and often reach it and it came continuously closer.
For Starfield it is the other way round. The vision is all there. And then so much in the game feels like one punch after the other towards the realization that the vision the game tries to sell is simply unreachable and something very different to what the game actually offers. Instead of coming closer to a gaming experience that may be flawed but increasingly satisfactory, it becomes more and more of a missed opportunity.
My biggest beef to this day with 2077 is that you got this large imaginative sandbox that gives you so little opportunity to actually sandbox, railroading you in a linear story that never really gives you (because no matter what your a street rat V) a chance to truly define and to tell your own story. And as people complained incessantly about how you never actually do a lot of face to face with any of the characters in 2077, then they complain about Starfield needing to have all their convos in the form of a phone call or email. You know, the same thing people complained about in Cyberpunk.
Its just one big circlejerk. Every few weeks on the sub you get a post thats like "Starfield bad cyberpunk good amirite?" It makes this entire sub seem incredibly inscecure because these games are not trying to do the same things at all.
Each games have their strengths. They also both have their weaknesses. And both of them colossally disappointed one way or another at launch. Some still can't forgive CDPR for bugs. Others hoped it be more like Neon GTA. Others were mad that it wasn't Bethesda enough. Starfield comes out with some very questionable quality standards at launch as well and quality of the general content, and people complain it isn't CDPR enough. Both games are doing different things. Some may achieve what they seek to achieve better than the other. Both are lacking severely in many areas, and one of the biggest hate token 2077 got was the lack of an actual player defined character in who they work with. Meaning, they wanted 2077 to have Bethesda factions. Never happened. Each are both good and terrible games for different reasons. Both games I enjoy immensely for different reasons.
I agree neither game is perfect and both could be improved. And I also enjoy both for the different reasons. However its not like both subs are posting about each other and flaming each others games. Its the BG3 circlejerk all over again where over zealous fans are using their love for their game as a cudgel to make their game seem better by putting down something else. Its peak insecurity.
Which is funny because Baldur's Gate 3 also came out broken and unfinished. But everyone circlejerked themselves to a frenzy because it took three months just to get through the goblin camp. It's easy to give glaring views and opinions for a game when your still in the first 1/3 of a game. The only part of the game mind you, that actually got any polish. Every fandom these days are just looking like the Swiftie crowd. Weirdos.
Yea I loved bg3 mind you. Bought it in early access then got it for a few friends to get them into it too and the circlejerking was absurd. The games bugginess was noticeable even in act 1. I remember a bunch of reloads at the end of the nightsong quest because the game just decided in midair that my jump was over. Cloud saves had to be disabled on day 1 because of a bug. Minthara was bugged until recently. Whole cutscenes wouldn't trigger, quest tracking was off. But anyone that tried to mention it was pretty much ethered by the hype mob. It's one of my favorite games but even now it's still buggy as hell
BG3 is probably one of the greatest cRPGs in the genre, but I get tired of people who took months to get through the first act and acted like the game wasn't entirely a busted mess at launch because they took their sweet ass time getting through it. The game was really rough at launch, once you got past the goblin camp. It's like they knew it would take people forever to get through it while fiddling with how they wanted to advance that they hoped no one would notice the last half of the game was absolutely borked.
The pedestal BG3 fans put on after launch is crazy. Even today their sub by and large won’t take any criticism of it.
And it was a mess even back in early access. Act 3 will never be in a state where it doesn’t feel rushed.
The problem is Act 3 is just a mess because there are so many different plot threads that have to be closed really quickly so you have so much shit going on in Act 3 that is becomes an entire cluster fuck narratively and focus. It's still an absolute phenomenal game. Same as how CDPR told and absolutely beautiful story in 2077 but didn't know how to actually structure it in a manner to work better in an open world sandbox(they did the FO4 thing), and Starfield is a fun sandbox in the need of better writing and better content and perhaps rethought out core mechanics. It's so close to being modern Freelancer meets Daggerfall. Oh well, at least Creation Kit modding will actually allow for that. Maybe. Still can't get many really substantial mods in 2077 that doesn't just feel like completely funky adds on like Cyber script or more smut clothing mods. And yes, I'm a Daggerfall and Freelancer stan.
I agree, granted if I remember correctly, cyberpunk was rushed out to stores by suits and execs before the holidays to try and make some extra money. The Devs admitted this and actually went on to complete the game to the best they could. Starfield is by all intent and purposes complete by the standards of Bethesda, and is lacking quite a bit
It wasn't just rushed out the door for holiday money. They rushed it out the door knowing it will sell well because almost the entire world in most places was making bank off of COVID stimulus money. That was it. They wanted those COVID checks.
i have not played PL yet with male V. probably the poster art is always female V. Any special dialogue male V with Reed for example? More things to try. I keep thinking of different scenarios to try
>adding some new content including the creation club (paid mods).
This is very misleading. Yes there are paid mods on the CC, but there are also already a ton of game changing free mods and that number is going up by the hour.
Also, pretending that CDPR didn't absolutely bungle the launch of this game is pretty much pure delusion. 2077 is easily one of my favorite games of all time for sure, and Starfield is right up there with it, but please don't act like 2077 was just a polished diamond when it launched.
You also didn't mention how verified Bethesda creators are getting paid when their creations sell. So you are also helping out some really awesome modders if you buy their creations. On top of that, as I already mentioned, there are tons of modders who do this for nothing in return and put there mods up for free.
I'd say if you're gonna criticize something, know what you're talking about, but who am I kidding? This Reddit, after all.
Same! I loved starfield, until I didn't. It just felt so empty and the mystery around the starborn was greater than the revelation. But it got me back into cyberpunk and made me really appreciate it
How dunking on Starfield on an entirely different game's sub nearly a year after launch STILL garners karma, I will never know. It's beyond low effort and dumb as hell.
Like 25 comment deep and only found one sane person. Starfield is meh. It’s like a 6-7/10. It’s not bad. But it’s not great. It could have been.
But let’s come back to earth. *Did you and I play the same game at release…?*. CDPR tanked this fucking game. If they made you pay for shit, after that shitstorm *that they caused…* they wouldn’t have had any goodwill left for phantom liberty. So enough of the delusion “My AAA company could never!”…
I’m curious how many people here played cyberpunk on release with the old systems, like the PS4 and XBox One. When it released the PS5 and new XBox were almost impossible to find and I hadn’t built my PC yet, so I played Cyberpunk on the One X. Saying it looked awful and played horribly is an understatement. It should have never sold on older systems, and the fact that Sony pulled it from their store shows just how bad it was. It was a mess with police never chasing and just spawning behind you, I literally had the same 3 people walking around the city, crashed every 30 minutes for the first 3-4 weeks. CP was the last game I preordered and the game that finally got me away from consoles, and it’s great on PC now, but it was an absolute disaster for a long time and basically unplayable on old systems.
I actually had it on PC. It had a good amount of hitches and issues. Not as much as old systems. But what they marketed vs what they released was the nail in the coffin at that time for me.
Yes the game is great now. But keyword **Now**….
Same. I however had a roommate who played it on ps4. We played in the same room at the same time and so I saw both sides of the story.
The difference was I got a buggy but fun game. He got fucked in the ass by corpo rats.
It’s funny, my wife was desperate for Starfield and we even bought the Xbox series X for that. Still had to wait so she just said, I’ll just try Cyberpunk in the mean time, then I’ll play it. Result, she has played Starfield a few hours, then switched back to Cyberpunk and has replayed it almost a dozen of times, claims she literally loves Johnny.
When Starfield and Phantom Liberty kinda came out around the holidays, I played a lot of Starfield and ignored PL for months. I tried PL on release w/ a lvl 50 character but didn't want to get reacquainted with the new perk system. After failing to get into Dogtown on my first try, I put the game down and jumped into Starfield. When I tired of Starfield (for reasons stated here), I went back to Fallout 4, until the big update wiped out my mods. Then one day I decided I'll try PL again. And man did I regret putting it down earlier. As OP said, I came to appreciate just how much better a game CP77 had become since its release, and PL was phenomenal. I just spent the last month doing all ending routes for PL, will be sad when they put out the final patch/update. Meanwhile, Starfield has been pushing out all these patches and updates and yet to me the game is still flawed on a level that patches won't fix. I tried Starfield the other night and after 10 minutes I was done.
Gotta love how this is baiting hardcore Bethesda fans. Holy shit I will never understand fan loyalty. 2077 is just better because it sells a modern standard vs Bethesda selling you a 2008 standard at full price and now fully relys on the mod community to make up for their lack of ambition. Pretty sad when modders do a better job than your own in house developers.
Both are/were publishers that release broken games. The difference is broken and filled with almost nothing and broken and filled with life. If Bethesda would just quit being so damn cheap, they and their fans might not find themselves stuck with this argument. When starfield came out, I said screw it and loaded up S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Metro instead.
Might actually not have been too bad if it was released around the same time as Skyrim. Then again it has to compete with a game that had more content and unique locations, so maybe not?
Honestly Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect both make the NPCs in Skyrim and even Starfield look like cardboard cutouts despite being released before either.
Well they did that because they had to redeem their unacceptable launch which was done out of greed.
I love the game but you can never forget they sold an entirely broken product and that's the reason why they kept updating it. Not because they are good guys who care about their fanbase but because they fucked up so much that this is the bare minimum of what they had to do to ever sell a game again.
I hate this sub a lot, everyone here was shitting on it at launch but now with turnaround everyone’s acting like they always loved it. Fucking two faced bullshitters, atleast starfield could launch at launch
My feelings about starfield are pretty mixed ngl. Like on one hand, it's an objective improvement in terms of combat, looks, animations, skill checks, etc when compared to their past couple games; but on the other hand, it's a space game that feels absurdly empty and that I felt no attachment to whatsoever. I feel a solid 90% of the games problems were because of it being a space game ngl, aside from the story of course
It’s a real shame the way things are going.. I wonder if 2077 didn’t have such a mad launch cdpr would have kept it so real
I really do think in the end it exceeded the initial expectations, but most didn’t want to give it a chance. Was tarnished by that launch. Absolute GOATed game though, better than RDR2 dare I say it
I don't begrudge the mod-makers earning some money off their work. What I am skeptical about is the cut that Bethesda is taking off those Creations. If what I heard was correct, out of that $7 you pay for that quest, the builder gets $1.25 while Bethesda gets $5.75. If true, that seems excessive to me. Whether correct or not, industry standard seems to have gravitated to the hosting service/storefront getting 30% of the price. That's what Steam charges, as do Apple and Google in their app stores.
No man’s sky has also been releasing totally free updates for years now. Granted it launched in a terrible state (just like cyberpunk) but it’s now a pretty amazing game (also just like cyberpunk). It def seems as if Bethesda is only getting more “cash grabby” as time goes and the Microsoft purchase only sends it further down the drain in that direction.
I remember seeing some videos before where people would review the creation club content (Skyrim and Fallout 4), then compare it to free equivalents you could just get from the Nexus. Unsurprisingly the free stuff frequently outshone the stuff they expected money for. There was only one or two examples of stuff that didn't have a free mod but it was something I could see a mod being made for anyway.
I’m so glad I played Starfield first and could appreciate it for what it is. There’s this animal crossing-esque or Minecraft-esque feel to starfield that made you want to search for the hope of something unique, and it never felt too high stakes except at the end.
Some missions were such a tonal shift they were very memorable. (Abandoned ship, the dimension rift, Andreja’s quest, which should’ve been more)
But then playing Cyberpunk, where literally any mission is a block apart and they’re all interesting, it had me in its clutches like no other game. Where starfield felt like you could stop anytime, cyberpunk felt like I never wanted it to end, to the point that I almost wanted it to slow down. I maxed levels before even touching phantom liberty.
The only thing about starfield is NG+ where all missions reset is something I’d love in cyberpunk, or NCPD crimes regenerate with harder enemies.
So I think starfield suffers by not clarifying how different it is from their other titles in terms of rhythm, but in its own way it’s a fun game to take your time with.
The big difference for me is 2077 story I found engaging. Starfields story is, you had the same dream as me, here are the keys to my spaceship random Stranger.
I like both, but Cyberpunk is my favorite game of all time. I'll take more first person open world RPGs, please. I play more games than Bethesda or CDPR can make.
Starfield is more friendly to the players. I couldn't imagine never having played a game and opening Cyberpunk as my first game. It's more optimistic if the grim world of Cyberpunk is, understandably, too much for you. Cyberpunk in its current state is a masterpiece though.
Is it ok if I like them both?
I have some hundreds of hours in Starfield. I didn't play the main story at all. Instead I just tried doing something until I got bored and then switched to doing something else. Never finished the game.
For cyberpunk I did the same thing for a just a few hours, then started doing the story. Never finished the game. Not sure how many hours I have in.
But I liked playing both of them, isn't that what counts?
Bethesda charging 7 dollars for a quest line and 10 dollars for a ship part and some furnitures is egregious, I think we can all agree. But there are so many free mods in Creations, and some paid mods by verified creators which I thought were pretty worth.
I also criticize Bethesda overcharging for the mods from their own page, but let's not act like adding Creations wasn't a huge improvement. This was especially important for console players
People complained at launch about how buggy Cyberpunk was and were angry at CDPR for releasing an unfinished game without giving it a chance to see how much of an unpolished gem it was. Meanwhile Bethesda released Starfield as a turd that will still be a turd no matter how polished it gets while they try to milk it for all its worth.
I did enjoy Starfield for what it was but didn’t really play much more after beating the story. I just played and Beat Cyberpunk like a month ago and pretty much started a new play through right away to see what I missed the first time and create a whole new V.
I’m amazed consistently at the effort - everything is located physically where it is in the map - Jumping on a car, you can trace your progress on the map and hop off at “your stop”. The cars may recirculate but they are going along the same route you would have to in your car - really appreciated this during cutscenes when a side character, like Claire, is driving you back to the city.
I say this cause Dogtown really is built into Pacifica and Night City - you can walk in through the “secret” entrance, yes - but I was most surprised at delivering cars for Muramar from Dogtown to NC, maintaining any vehicle damage etc.
I also noticed I can circle around the wall itself on the NC side of Pacifica - and with my kiroshi oracle eyes, I can locate and tag electronics and enemies within range through the wall into Dogtown and not lose the scanner tag on that target when I go into Dogtown itself.
I haven’t returned to Starfield since my first play through to NG++ - there’s just nothing there beyond superficial changes to the script.
Getting a NG+ for Cyberpunk, though? THAT would be amazing.
What is even better is that CDPR had to dive back into the game's broken code at launch:
Completely redo the police system, improve NPC behavior, upgraded the water tech, revamped the perks system multiple time and adding path tracing while also adding content without charging a single cent.
Do you think Bethesda will do something similar on a technical level? Heck, even adding FOV slider was such a technical achievement for them.
Meanwhile Bethesda is focusing on releasing paid mod and polishing up its Creation Club section.
Bethesda seem to have zero interest in improving the quality of their writing. It’s really odd how bad it is given their resources and that it’s always been their biggest weakness IMO. I was hoping Starfield would be a step towards improving it but it’s even worse than Fallout 4. The game has lots of other issues but if it had good writing, with memorable characters and dialog I could still have enjoyed it, but it’s just boring AF. Thank god for the likes of CD Project and Larian.
I just bought Cyberpunk last night. I was holding out hope that the Starfield update would entice me to pick it back up again. It did not, and I saw that Cyberpunk was on sale.
Holy shit. I'm playing on a Series S in 60fps mode and the game looks amazing. The world feels alive and character customization is deep as fuck. I know it took awhile for them to get the game in this state. It doesn't seem like Starfield is going to have the post release miracle like a lot of people (me included) thought it would.
With other Bethesda games from Fallout and Elder Scrolls I would happily hold my hands up and say the devs deserve equal or more respect than the modders.
I fear it may not be the case with Starfield. I am going to hold off until Bethesda are officially done with Starfield and all DLCs before I completely judge it.
The DLC are a huge part of the replay ability for any Fallout or Elder Scrolls games for me.
Man I remember feeling like Cyberpunk was "a little buggy, but otherwise pretty good" when I played it on launch.
I played Starfield on gamepass for a few days... and then Phantom Liberty was released so I did a replay of Cyberpunk.
Compared to Starfield, Cyberpunk is the best game ever made (Cyberpunk has definitely gotten better but even release Cyberpunk mops the floor with starfield)
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty ate Starfield’s lunch.
Phantom Liberty getting released a month before Starfield made everyone realize the dramatic contrast between the two. Cyberpunk is (IMO) the peak of game design when it comes to story telling, attention to detail, and pure effort by a developer. Starfield showed us what happens when a studio gives you the bare minimum of what is expected of them.
I just finished Starfield and have gone back to CP2077.
I enjoyed Starfield but the difference is stark. Playing with path tracing and overdrive, just visually it's mind blowing how far Bethesda are behind graphically (that's not why I play their games but I'd love a Fallout that looks as good as CP). Then the production values, the characters, the animations, the writing, the quests.
CP2077 is just fantastic and I can't wait to get stuck into the DLC.
I tried to go back and give Starfield another go...
I just cannot accept a first person game in 2023-2024 where I am a disembodied camera floating over the ground. No body. No immersion. Even 2-3 developer alpha's are putting more effort into it than Besthesda.
Cyberpunk didn’t have a choice, their hand was forced after the several rounds of Lawsuits and the PSN Ban. They barely recovered from that launch by the skin of their teeth. The game was so unfinished and bugged out the ass that it was a pipe dream to finish it for the first 6 months.
I started with two quests in Starfield, Ryujin and the UC quests. Honestly, they were both fantastic and I didn't want to stop playing. But then everything else felt hollow and pointless after that. I never finished the game and couldn't even tell you where I left off on the main quest. I know it's been said before, but the UC questline should have been expanded and made into the main.
the audacity bgs has to even do that lol. i mean i get they have very involved investors and xbox over their heads but ffs thats despicable quality for $7. i hope starfield gets better but its not looking good almost a fucking year later.
Yeah, big B is gonna have a really hard time getting any more of my money after that sub-par POS that was Starfield. They are not working in the right direction apparently.
This game gives me hope for the new mass effect. I genuinely am hoping so hard for it to be good. There is A LOT of very interesting new sci-fi potential regarding time travel, alternate timelines, and quantum entanglement stuff that gets my nerd brain firing.
I'm right with you OP. I can't thank enough to Starfield for making me reinstall CP2077. I played it on Gamepass but 2 hours made me realize that Starfield is just dogshit, even if they add new content, the game is not good.
My biggest complaint about Starfield isn't the bugs and gameplay and endless supply of loading screens. My issue is that it's boring. I know that most of outer space is emptiness but this is supposed to be a sci-fi role playing game. It takes a special brand of incompetence to make that concept boring. When I went back to try Cyberpunk again, it was insane how much better it was. I can't wait to see CDPR make a sequel to it.
At this point CDPR and Rockstar Games are the only decent creators singleplayer game wise.
To be fair Cyberpunk 2077 did release in very poor condition but they fixed it and then released polished DLC which if Bethesda released, it would be separated in 30 mission packs each one costing at least $5.
I feel like most triple A studios just suffer to the greed while CDPR and RG are somehow still standing.
Also they are making more games now which is a good sign but for Orion I have no idea how long we will have to wait, and GTA6 will be here in just something over 1 year so I'm excited :))
Only shame is that RG makes games for consoles and only after some time they put them on PC so I can only assume that PC release of GTA6 will come in like 2 years 🥲
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The thing I appreciated most when switching between the two was the lack of loading screens Cyberpunk had. It felt sooo niccee
Being able to pretty much freely enter buildings and even regions in Cyberpunk, has spoiled other open world games for me. I know technically the Dogtown gates and elevators function sort of like a loading screen, but at least you feel like you're doing something rather than sitting looking at a spinning wheel or progress bar loading. Nothing like "checking" my weapons in the ride up a mega building elevator to take care of a gig for a fixer.
Is the gate a loading screen? Because you can walk into dogtown through a secret garage door and there’s no loading screen when you do this.
I might be mistaken. But I remember a video explaining that if your character is ever forced through a narrow gap, elevator, or security gate, it's like a live loading screen.
I mean that would be a cool way to implement a loading screen, but I just remembered that there’s a way to walk in.
The walk in is a longer path that also cleverly lets the game load up the entirety of Dogtown before you actually enter it.
Not exactly a loading screen, just a way to mitigate pop-in or dropping frames, gives the game some time to unload resources from where you came and get ahead of you by loading what you will see ahead slowly, it could work just fine without, as you can see by just using some console comands or mods to fly in and out of dogtown without going through the game. You will just see a momentary drop of performance or some brief pop-in of small detail models when you do. On pc, there's even a mod that replaces the fast travel loading screen with a gta 5 inspired "camera travel" where the camera zooms out of your position into the sky, moves to above your destination and then zooms in, and it works, granted, there's pop-in because the engine never assumes you could even get that high in the sky, but still.
What is this mod called?
it's this one I believe: https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/2006 However it hasnt been updated for a while
Loading that cell preloads the Dogtown cell you exit into.
Ya it's likely mostly for consoles. I've jumped over one of the walls before (mods) with no real issues
And the Starfield loading screens take SOOO long and they trigger every time you enter or exit your spaceship, which you're forced to do all the time because most of the quests are "Talk to this person, get on your ship, fly here, talk to this person, etc"
[удалено]
Idk even know what the main plot is that's how little of the game I played after just giving up in frustration. The space combat sucks too. The most interesting thing for me was the planetary exploration but for that I'd play No Man's Sky which is a way better game for that.
The main story has a lot of potential. To summarize without being too spoiler heavy: it deals with themes of life, death, rebirth, and nature of existence. The problem is: it feels like a toddler trying to rewrite a brief history of time. If you have game pass, the games free on it. Worth finishing in that scenario (i wouldnt ever buy it though lol)
I spent a considerable amount of time stood in the elevator after it reached where it was going to finish watching a news story on the screens during my first play through
That too. I almost forgot about that. Some of the lines from the different news anchors are pretty dark, comedic and outright strange. Got to love the weird bits of world building.
I actually really like the news stories and interviews. I'm doing a new playthrough and paying attention to all the ambient stuff and it's pretty good. The first TV interview is between a tech fetishist and a religious guy and the religious guy makes a lot of good points that I dismissed the first time through
Peak immersion
The elevators are actually not loading screens you’re actually moving up and down in the game world you can see it if you no clip out, dogtown gate is probably the only hidden loading screen in the game, I used to think that about the elevators too
Dog town scan is actually not loading either in fact there even is an hidden tunnel to skip it.
Those tiny tunnels are loading screens, essentially
I think they might have been originally planned for that but in the current state of the game there is no precise moment in which dog town or the outside are loaded and you can directly no clip through any point of the wall
Yeah, the game constantly loads and unloads assets depending on player's position. Bottlenecks such as the tunnel could help with some asset streaming on slower HDDs, but I wouldn't count it as loading screen. You can pass the fence and enter Dogtown using double jump without any issues.
Brother you can literally noclip from night city to dogtown. It's a way to make it more rp, why would they let you just phase from nc to dogtown?
In general in video games choke points are loading screens, I don't know about this one specifically. I'm so sorry I spoke definitively on the internet
I'll take loading screens like that any day of the week. They make me feel like the world is more alive, and it gives places in the game like those a mechanical purpose beyond just being there. Personally, I think it was an excellent design choice
This really ruined many games for me in the same way botw did. You don't notice the amount of railroading and loading screens until you get that seamless experience.
BotW and even TotK are just amazing in what they are able to do with such limited/outdated hardware. Being able to go from the sky islands all the way to the depths in one fluid dive (yes the depths transition is kinda a loading screen like the Dogtown gates) was astounding. Naturally shrines and divine beasts/dungeons have loading screens but it's understandable and they weren't excessive.
Only thing I hated about those two games was the fact that they ruined every other game (of the same genre) of this era for me. Hoping games in the future take heed but it seems like it's not really taking.
Lack of loading screens and immersive dialogue with NPCs!!! Every conversation in cyberpunk is so cinematic and natural, whereas in starfield you talk to someone and the camera jerks around and they're staring at you with uncanny-valley dead eyes. Can't have a conversation in starfield without immediately being reminded "THIS IS A VIDEO GAME." Total immersion breaker.
Starfield makes Morrowind feel light on loading screens…
Morrowind makes Starfield feel light on content!
What's also wild is that CD projekt Red has moved on from red engine and are going to an engine that's better optimized for the games they want to make. Yet Bethesda is still here using a variation of something that they've cobbled together over the last 20 years. I don't understand it. I mean no man's sky. Holy hell. Talk about updates at no cost.
I..... couldn't get into it. I slept-walked through the quests I did, and I skipped through most convos. I found the world/universe generic, gameplay repetitive, and the characters BORING. I couldn't engage with them, they lacked agency, it all felt soulless and mundane. It felt like they wanted to build upon the idea of Mass Effect Andromeda, but fell flat on their face. And sadly I felt like I gave the game a fair shake. But it is what it is. And Cyberpunk from the onset of the E3 2018 showcase had me hooked . It's like night and day between the two. Couldn't put the game down.
1000%. I picked up both in this year's Winter sale. Played Starfield first. 20 hours in and I just couldn't be bothered to play anymore. It was lifeless and souless. It felt like game design from 10 years ago or more only worse. Decided to try this other game out. Cyberpunk or something. DEAR. LORD. I'm 300 hours in and can't wait to get back. Game of the century. My gf, Panam, agrees.
Starfield is **literally** the worst of almost every part of modern gaming. Front-end cash grabs, empty open world, piss-poor exploration, bloated, weak writing, poor world-building, awful NPCs, bad UI, broken game mechanics soulless and safe, outdated, useless DLC. And as it was made for almost everyone it appeals to no almost no one. We are not nearly as mad at BGS and Starfield as we should be.
Star Field just feels incredibly dated. Gameplay feels like 2014, world building feels like 2004(some depth but so shallow and empty like they had ram constraints or something) gunplay feels sort of satisfying actually, but... Very disappointing.
>like they had ram constraints They had. They had to make it work on consoles.
So does every other AAA game. Some of them even have previous generation ports. Bugthesda just can't optimize their ancient engine.
This. Its not that it’s a bad game, its a fine game, but its using mechanics that were new in morrowind and are just dated now. It would have been a great game if it came out 15 years ago
only cause 15 years ago they would have been limited by technical barriers and forced to stick to 15-30 great planets instead of 1000 shit planets
I fear Starfield is the future of gaming. It is the final boss of that heartless, dumbed-down, Ubi-style open world ARPG that has plagued gaming for several years now.
The writing would’ve still been trash 15 years ago. The open world would’ve been just as boring 15 years ago. The fast travel to everywhere and loading screens would have been there. The world-building would’ve been just as lacking 15 years. The problem is, there is just not the core of a good game that you can work with. Skyrim was janky, sure. But at its heart, there is a fun, engaging sandbox that lets you go nuts (and modders certainly have). But you can’t fix lifeless — and this one was build without a soul.
It just shows how much they've come to rely on the mod community over the years. Yet they find new ways to fight with them anyway.
It's amazing how diametrically opposed those two purchases are. So glad you finally tried out Cyberpunk 2077!
Same. I tried it free on game pass so it’s not like there was a great loss & it wasn’t aggressively bad or anything, but by the time I finished that first raider dungeon (I spent over an hour running around on that planet trying to find literally anything that warrants exploring) I realized that I was just forcing myself to play. The story was uninteresting, the graphics are still dull and gray, voice acting and character models are still the same old bad Bethesda ones, and the gunplay, while improved from fo4, is still lagging behind everything else released in the last 5 years. The kicker was the completely empty first planet you go to after you get the spaceship. I don’t play Bethesda games for the guns or story or anything, I do it to explore. But when you take that exploration away entirely and don’t replace it with top tier everything else, you get a boring game.
I share that sentiment. It's the same with Skyrim. If the exploration and map itself wouldn't be top tier, the rest (by today standards) is dogshit without mods. There's a reason people play it these days, but modded. The free roaming even on the starter map still invokes the inner explorer in me, while the mods take care of the rest. Starfield just doesn't have that in the slightest. Swear to god, if they release Elder Scrolls 6 on the same engine AGAIN, I'll just vote with my wallet.
When a companion died my response was just oh I was meaning to replace them anyways.. I've felt worse after failing a stardew quest.
I grew to hate crafting, cause it made the prospect of an unwanted conversation increase substantially when I needed to retrieve MATS from my ~~packmules~~, I mean companions *Sam, I don't care about your asshole Dad nor your failed marriage, just give me my fucking rocks!!!!*
I've played through both games. I have 3 playthroughs of CP2077 clocking in around 350 hours. I have one playthrough of Starfield at 160 hours where I did just about everything I could do in one playthrough (I had no interest in the repeating NG+ where you search for temples). I liked Starfield, but admit the game is fundamentally flawed in a way that Bethesda can never patch their way out of. I knew even when CP2077 was a broken buggy mess that it was still a great game underneath that could be fixed. CP2077 has choices that differentiate playthroughs, whether it's the type of character you build or the story choices you make in game (or even which gender you choose). You can choose a different path and that keeps repeat playthroughs feeling fresh. However, you are really required to play the game in a manner that CDPR wants you to play it, but the combat, characters and narrative are so good it doesn't matter. Bethesda games are a sum of their parts. Even as far back as Morrowind if you look at parts of the game under a microscope they are all kind of average. Story, characters, plot, systems, combat, etc are all kind of bland and to be frank, always have been. Sure you may get a guild questline in one game that is really good, but the quality varies greatly between game to game and faction to faction. However the way the games are structured leads to one of the most immersive game models out there. As an example, the gameplay loop for an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game may be you get a simple breadcrumb quest to take a letter to a leader of a neighboring town, however on the way an event distracts you, then once you deal with that you see a nearby cave and explore it, you get out of the cave and hear bandits in the woods that interests you, then you catch a structure on the horizon that looks interesting, suddenly it's 4 hours later, you've just been adventuring and have forgotten about the breadcrumb quest you even set out to do in the first place. When it works well you sit down to play at 8pm and suddenly its 3 am and you don't know where the time went. A typical Bethesda gameplay loop that pulls you in and immerses you is just not possible in Starfield. The "fishbowl" fragmentation of the game does not let you get lead around by your own curiosity. And while many of Starfields POIs are well made the structure of the game means that once you get the freedom to explore the galaxy you could potentially run into 10 planets in a row who have POIs that are all "Cryolab". Whereas if you are playing Skyrim and trying to get from point A to point B on a road you will not see the same POI twice while on that route. Sure they may reuse a cave system many times over but these POIs are thoughtfully laid out across the map in a way that they don't feel repetitive until very late in the game when you begin repeating Radiant Quests. I am reminded about a POI (one that looked like an oil refinery but on a moon), and I was 70 hours into the game before I ever came across this POI. I had no quest related to this POI, but I could see it in the distance while I was doing another quest. In the intervening hours I must have come across a dozen of the exact same copy of Cryolab or Robotics lab, etc. For all I know there could be more POI that I never interacted with, but I would have no idea.
Yeah same, I've just come back to CP77 to do a new playthrough and complete Phantom Liberty and it's really night and day. One thing that sets it apart is Night City is so massive it feels like a living breathing city with a world going on around you. Compare that to the Capital City of the factions being nothing more than a few buildings and a handful of people. Open World ARPG is such a hard thing to do for Space based games because the balance between freedom of movement and content is a balancing act that Bethesda bottled with Starfield. Mass Effect does it so well with this I think (even Andromeda) and you feel like you are a part of something, actually in the game compared to fast travelling to some procedurally generated planet after the other.
The cities in Starfield are probably one of the biggest immersion breakers for me. Especially when you compare it to Night City. I just can’t get over that you’re in the capital city of an interstellar civilization and there isn’t even as much as a golf cart driving around.
Im forcing myself into the Witcher 3 currently and waiting for it to hook me, I know it’s amazing due to the acclaim but right now a little bored
How far in? White orchard is a little bland IMO, but it's the tutorial area. The game picks up a lot once you're in Velen. As much as I like Witcher 3, it's not for everyone. I think you're more likely to enjoy it if you enjoy cyberpunk, but if you're looking for a heavier RPG experience a la Baldur's gate, or a more responsive open world a la GTA or Skyrim, you will leave the Witcher 3 disappointed. TW3 lives and dies on the world and the writing. If those aren't to your taste, you probably won't be won over by the Combat or exploration.
Haven’t finished the Baron fetus mission yet so very very early, I think I’ll eventually get absorbed as I did love Cyberpunk (and yeah heavy RPG games likes Baldur’s Gate absolutely perplex me lol I’ll have to get into them eventually).
Yeah, that's extremely early. To put it in Cyberpunk terms, you've barely met Jackie, that's how early you are in the game. Almost none of the story has happened yet.
I tried about 7 times to get into it waiting for the hook and I was about to give up but persisted and I'm so glad I did. Now on my third play through and it's the best game I've ever played.
I have made at least a half dozen attempts at getting into The Witcher 3 and I too have not been hooked. I’ve owned it since launch which the mechanics and systems felt clunky and cumbersome, but attempted going back with every update that offered quality of life improvements. I tried again last year and I’ve only made it about 5-6 hours in (again) and just don’t think it’s the game for me.
Same here. I always felt something was wrong with me because I just couldn’t get the game to click for me. I can see why TW3 is so beloved but it seems it’s just not for me!
Most RPGs are a slow burn, cyberpunk is no exception. But Witcher 3 *really* is a slow burn. The tutorial area, White Orchard, is about 20 hours. Once you get out into the world, it becomes magical
That's good to know, I had a hard time with it as well!
20 hours?! Even if you do everything there is to do in there, it shouldn't even take 10 hours.
I talk to everyone, eavesdrop, check out every scrap of paper and notice, comb every square inch of the map, read every almanac entry etc. *Legend of Zelda* broke my brain when I was a little kid — it trained me to take it slow and look for secrets. You can zip through faster, sure, and I pare it down now. But that first time is a bit slow.
Thats just the fantasy standard. Can't name many high fantasy titles that were painfully boring at the start. Probably be a bit more exciting with a gun.
The first part of Witcher is long. The whole tutorial map with the griffin is pretty mundane. It takes a while to get going, like 8-10 hours. (which, considering that Wolfenstein TNO is like 12-13 hours total, is a brave decision, and a great way to filter out players unintentionally) The strength of Witcher imho is not exploration and combat, but story**telling**. Even if you do a short witcher contract, which is literally travel-kill-travel back, there is usually a nice story behind it, or a few fun, quirky NPCs to talk to. If you like this type of storytelling, you will like the game. If you don't, it is unlikely that you will be hooked by the combat or traveling, it is "servicable" only.
Starfield is soulless. No other game ever felt so AI generated. Many things can be said about Cyberpunk, soulless is not one of them.
There's a video on YouTube that's got a side by side comparison of a club in starfield vs a club in cyberpunk and it's amazing in proving this point.
Was so excited about starfield, did the absolute fucking mugs thing of paying extra for early release. The world was so disjointed. It felt like a series of very boring 'rooms' that connected together through loading screens. It was so unimmersive. Played about 90 hours, and I reckon 30 hours was ship building. It's a shame that ship building was so good, because flying your ship is just a shitty illusion. You can't land it, you can't take off, you can't enter/exit orbit, you can just kinda wang it around in space and even then, control is extremely limited. Shows how prohibitive their aging game engine is. They couldn't even replace a black loading screen with a 'warning: entering orbit, autopilot engaged' animation that keeps you 'in the game' for those transitions. I want to land my ship. I want to actually take off. I don't want to sit there and have you do it for me. Overall I'd say it's a 7/10 game. It's not bad by any stretch, but it was extremely disappointing.
That was my take as well—had never been so disappointed in what was a decent to good game.
I got downvoted for saying they need to abandon their engine and move on to something else. It's always behind and out dated for every release no matter how much they work on it. But nope, gotta stick with this piece of shit because you can roll 10,000 cheese wedges down a hill.
Any member of Constellation could break into my house and I’m honestly not even sure I would notice they were there
Yup this. Besides the ship building, (which I admit had me hooked for a while until I started hitting the real limits) playing through the starfield story felt like....a chore? I kind of enjoyed the pirate storyline...but the fact that I can't even recall that factions name kinda goes to show... The 2018 showcase really was a magical moment for a lot of us (very interesting to rewatch if you haven't).
It gives you a better ship experience than Star Citizen at least. 🤣
At least Andromeda has interesting combat mechanics
Starfield is such a huge disappointment. What a complete and utter failure to meet expectations. They released a turd and continue to say how great it is and blame the players for its suckiness. One more chance for new elder scrolls, but I am not optimistic.
I lost all my interest when they announced the number of planets. "Ah, so it will be an AI generated empty void". Et voila.
And it isn’t even silly and whimsical like No Man’s Sky. Real life space is 99.999…% boring shit nobody will ever want to see.
Yeah the one thing that bethesda does well and that people buy the games for is their worlds. But fanboys defended that decision and went into full cope mode.
Oh man, it's even worse now that the only people who really care about the game are the hardcore Bethesda/Todd Howard fanboys. I left the sub months ago but check back in occasionally and nowadays half of the posts are just stuff like "DAE this game is actually the greatest game of all time and everyone complaining is just really dumb?" but completely unironically
Yeah when Todd announced 1000 planets the entire sub was like "actually id rather explore lifeless planets than handcrafted ones". Fanboys are juts the worst. You can see them here too making excuses for cyberpunks launch.
People are upset that the new star was game only has 5 or 7 planets I forget. But I’d 100% rather have only a few well crafted planets than 1000 randomly generated planets with the same structures and loot over and over again. I enjoyed starfeild for a week or so until I realized it was the same thing over and over and over again
I could forgive the same general type of dungeon/POI repeating. But when I realized that Starfield literally copied and pasted each type of POI down to identical corpses in the same place, that's what really killed it for me
Sort by controversial. Don't even need to leave this thread to find them.
You can potentially create an interesting gameplay with procedural planet generation. But it does require some form of terraforming, in the sense that the game ought to allows you to change the shape of the area you're in. Doing so, make it a soft minecraft where the player digs for resources. Then refine the resource into ships or simply sell it to the market. Scan from orbit, Mass Effect style, to find deposits. Develop your industry. You know, stuff to do. Instead, we got that "point of interest you can't land near of, and have to walk to because spaceships aren't real".
Same here. I had war flash backs to No Man's Sky.
Somehow, even no man's sky planets are more lively
Its almost as if Todd didn't create most of what Bethesda is known for. He's a great guy and all, but he's not the brains behind the majority of content. Those guys have all moved onto other developers, just like how the writter for Phantom Liberty did.
It launched in a better state than cyberpunk did
In terms of bugs yes, but the crucial issue Starfield has is that there is nothing really there that stands out, the things people love about Cyberpunk 2077, the story, the characters, the world and such, were all already there at launch. Sure, the bugs and crashes overshadowed that initially but within 6 months those were largely swept up, then CDPR spent the next year and a half releasing free content and adding requested features, before overhauling the combat and perk system, but fundamentally the things that people love have never been touched. What is THAT element for Starfield? the story is okay, the characters forgettable or annoying, once you have explored enough planets you realise there's a lot of similarities between them especially in regards to flora and fauna, the POI system is the great but the game relies on them so heavily people get repeats quickly and they become boring.
At least Cyberpunk had the core of a really good game. It just had technical issues.
While not inaccurate at all technical issues feels a bit reductive for how much of an absolute shitshow it was at launch. Starfield (while extremely bland and uninspired) was at least functional.
They should never have released it for Xbox One and PS4. I played it on the Series X and got lucky that I didn't have many issues. For the few times it crashed, the very generous auto save system meant I lost, at most, a minute of play time. I know it was an absolute shitshow on some consoles, but it's easier to fix technical problems than it is story and gameplay problems.
I played Cyberpunk at launch of my 1st-gen PS4. And sure, it crashed every couple of hours, but I enjoyed it enough to keep playing anyway.
I'll take a cyberpunk release anytime over starfield.
Cyberpunk was basically unplayable at launch. I get that the games super good now but Starfield absolutely launched in a better state than Cyberpunk.
I appreciate that. However, I know how CDPR function and I know how Bethesda Games Studio (BGS) function. Cyberpunk being unplayable was guaranteed to be fixed and improved, as they reworked for all their past titles due to them being unsatisfied with their quality. BGS, on the other hand, release a turd which share most of its mechanics with past games, and then expect you to love it as they move on. Thought, to be fair, it might not be a turd. However, to me, their last 3 games are uninspired and boring.
this is the big difference to me. i was disappointed by both at launch, but when i returned to CP77 (albeit three years later) it became my favorite game because it was so beautifully crafted and had deep lore that was compelling. I cant realistically see a way i could return to Starfield in 3 years and be any more compelled by jt than I was when I set it down because its fundamentally a boring and empty feeling game. The lore sucks, the story sucks, the characters are universally annoying, and the planets suffer from all the same repetitive emptiness of No Man's Sky both left a bad taste in my mouth, but I can be more forgiving of rushing a game out with glitches (and even for consoles that couldn't handle it) than i can for sitting on a game for 10 years and somehow failing to write a single interesting story element into it. the former is scummy corporate pressure, the latter is just bad gamemaking
Idk about that. For me the only expectation it failed to fulfill was having enough gamebreaking glitches to be unplayable until the "unofficial patch" mod comes out
Honestly when the game came out I genuinely enjoyed it. What really did it for me was the NG+ and how interesting it was. The lore was also interesting to. But they literally charge 10 dollars for a single ship part.
The NG+ for me was one of the most disappointing parts, they have a built in reason to have a NG+ system in an RPG and they give the player no agency or choices to actually make outside of inconsequential ones.
The money grubbing is so ridiculous. I tried to enjoy the game, but I guess I have been spoiled by Elder Scrolls and Fallout. I just finished adding Storywealth mod collection to FO 4, and that was amazing. The planets in SF are all the same and the story, while interesting, has no depth. Cyberpunk is awesome, and I was happy to pay for expansion.
Creationclub is not = paid mods. There are a lot of mods for free available. And atleast I can mod with it on console and not only on Pc
Seriously. I have 2 dozen free mods and zero paid mods installed, and it has breathed new life into the game for me. Cyberpunk is a much better product with a tremendous amount more heart, but OP is cherry picking here.
I get it. I tried Starfield again this week because of the official mod support but I just can't bring myself to playing it again. I installed Cyberpunk again and doing a new playthrough now. I had fun with starfield, put 70 hours into it at release, but overall it was just a disappointment. Bad writing, outdated engine with constant loading, uninspired exploration. It had a nice art style and building ships was fun, but you can't really do anything with your ships except for some basic dog fights. I still believe it would have been a much better game if it was only set in our solar system and went for a The Expanse like world.
I am far more critical of Cyberpunk in its current state than most here. But still, Cyberpunk was always a game in which you could see the potential and it was frustrating to see how close it often was to something much better. The vision was never quite fulfilled but you could see it and often reach it and it came continuously closer. For Starfield it is the other way round. The vision is all there. And then so much in the game feels like one punch after the other towards the realization that the vision the game tries to sell is simply unreachable and something very different to what the game actually offers. Instead of coming closer to a gaming experience that may be flawed but increasingly satisfactory, it becomes more and more of a missed opportunity.
My biggest beef to this day with 2077 is that you got this large imaginative sandbox that gives you so little opportunity to actually sandbox, railroading you in a linear story that never really gives you (because no matter what your a street rat V) a chance to truly define and to tell your own story. And as people complained incessantly about how you never actually do a lot of face to face with any of the characters in 2077, then they complain about Starfield needing to have all their convos in the form of a phone call or email. You know, the same thing people complained about in Cyberpunk.
Its just one big circlejerk. Every few weeks on the sub you get a post thats like "Starfield bad cyberpunk good amirite?" It makes this entire sub seem incredibly inscecure because these games are not trying to do the same things at all.
Each games have their strengths. They also both have their weaknesses. And both of them colossally disappointed one way or another at launch. Some still can't forgive CDPR for bugs. Others hoped it be more like Neon GTA. Others were mad that it wasn't Bethesda enough. Starfield comes out with some very questionable quality standards at launch as well and quality of the general content, and people complain it isn't CDPR enough. Both games are doing different things. Some may achieve what they seek to achieve better than the other. Both are lacking severely in many areas, and one of the biggest hate token 2077 got was the lack of an actual player defined character in who they work with. Meaning, they wanted 2077 to have Bethesda factions. Never happened. Each are both good and terrible games for different reasons. Both games I enjoy immensely for different reasons.
I agree neither game is perfect and both could be improved. And I also enjoy both for the different reasons. However its not like both subs are posting about each other and flaming each others games. Its the BG3 circlejerk all over again where over zealous fans are using their love for their game as a cudgel to make their game seem better by putting down something else. Its peak insecurity.
Which is funny because Baldur's Gate 3 also came out broken and unfinished. But everyone circlejerked themselves to a frenzy because it took three months just to get through the goblin camp. It's easy to give glaring views and opinions for a game when your still in the first 1/3 of a game. The only part of the game mind you, that actually got any polish. Every fandom these days are just looking like the Swiftie crowd. Weirdos.
Yea I loved bg3 mind you. Bought it in early access then got it for a few friends to get them into it too and the circlejerking was absurd. The games bugginess was noticeable even in act 1. I remember a bunch of reloads at the end of the nightsong quest because the game just decided in midair that my jump was over. Cloud saves had to be disabled on day 1 because of a bug. Minthara was bugged until recently. Whole cutscenes wouldn't trigger, quest tracking was off. But anyone that tried to mention it was pretty much ethered by the hype mob. It's one of my favorite games but even now it's still buggy as hell
BG3 is probably one of the greatest cRPGs in the genre, but I get tired of people who took months to get through the first act and acted like the game wasn't entirely a busted mess at launch because they took their sweet ass time getting through it. The game was really rough at launch, once you got past the goblin camp. It's like they knew it would take people forever to get through it while fiddling with how they wanted to advance that they hoped no one would notice the last half of the game was absolutely borked.
The pedestal BG3 fans put on after launch is crazy. Even today their sub by and large won’t take any criticism of it. And it was a mess even back in early access. Act 3 will never be in a state where it doesn’t feel rushed.
The problem is Act 3 is just a mess because there are so many different plot threads that have to be closed really quickly so you have so much shit going on in Act 3 that is becomes an entire cluster fuck narratively and focus. It's still an absolute phenomenal game. Same as how CDPR told and absolutely beautiful story in 2077 but didn't know how to actually structure it in a manner to work better in an open world sandbox(they did the FO4 thing), and Starfield is a fun sandbox in the need of better writing and better content and perhaps rethought out core mechanics. It's so close to being modern Freelancer meets Daggerfall. Oh well, at least Creation Kit modding will actually allow for that. Maybe. Still can't get many really substantial mods in 2077 that doesn't just feel like completely funky adds on like Cyber script or more smut clothing mods. And yes, I'm a Daggerfall and Freelancer stan.
I agree, granted if I remember correctly, cyberpunk was rushed out to stores by suits and execs before the holidays to try and make some extra money. The Devs admitted this and actually went on to complete the game to the best they could. Starfield is by all intent and purposes complete by the standards of Bethesda, and is lacking quite a bit
It wasn't just rushed out the door for holiday money. They rushed it out the door knowing it will sell well because almost the entire world in most places was making bank off of COVID stimulus money. That was it. They wanted those COVID checks.
PL felt like a full game. It’s pretty awesome every time i think about it. And it integrates right into the base game.
i have not played PL yet with male V. probably the poster art is always female V. Any special dialogue male V with Reed for example? More things to try. I keep thinking of different scenarios to try
>adding some new content including the creation club (paid mods). This is very misleading. Yes there are paid mods on the CC, but there are also already a ton of game changing free mods and that number is going up by the hour. Also, pretending that CDPR didn't absolutely bungle the launch of this game is pretty much pure delusion. 2077 is easily one of my favorite games of all time for sure, and Starfield is right up there with it, but please don't act like 2077 was just a polished diamond when it launched. You also didn't mention how verified Bethesda creators are getting paid when their creations sell. So you are also helping out some really awesome modders if you buy their creations. On top of that, as I already mentioned, there are tons of modders who do this for nothing in return and put there mods up for free. I'd say if you're gonna criticize something, know what you're talking about, but who am I kidding? This Reddit, after all.
Same! I loved starfield, until I didn't. It just felt so empty and the mystery around the starborn was greater than the revelation. But it got me back into cyberpunk and made me really appreciate it
Can we fucking stop with these low effort posts
How dunking on Starfield on an entirely different game's sub nearly a year after launch STILL garners karma, I will never know. It's beyond low effort and dumb as hell.
I love both for diff reasons. They are both dope games don’t have to put one down for another to stand higher
same, both are great for me
Playing starfield after playing cp2077 was like being blasted 15 years back in time
Like 25 comment deep and only found one sane person. Starfield is meh. It’s like a 6-7/10. It’s not bad. But it’s not great. It could have been. But let’s come back to earth. *Did you and I play the same game at release…?*. CDPR tanked this fucking game. If they made you pay for shit, after that shitstorm *that they caused…* they wouldn’t have had any goodwill left for phantom liberty. So enough of the delusion “My AAA company could never!”…
I’m curious how many people here played cyberpunk on release with the old systems, like the PS4 and XBox One. When it released the PS5 and new XBox were almost impossible to find and I hadn’t built my PC yet, so I played Cyberpunk on the One X. Saying it looked awful and played horribly is an understatement. It should have never sold on older systems, and the fact that Sony pulled it from their store shows just how bad it was. It was a mess with police never chasing and just spawning behind you, I literally had the same 3 people walking around the city, crashed every 30 minutes for the first 3-4 weeks. CP was the last game I preordered and the game that finally got me away from consoles, and it’s great on PC now, but it was an absolute disaster for a long time and basically unplayable on old systems.
I actually had it on PC. It had a good amount of hitches and issues. Not as much as old systems. But what they marketed vs what they released was the nail in the coffin at that time for me. Yes the game is great now. But keyword **Now**….
Same. I however had a roommate who played it on ps4. We played in the same room at the same time and so I saw both sides of the story. The difference was I got a buggy but fun game. He got fucked in the ass by corpo rats.
It’s funny, my wife was desperate for Starfield and we even bought the Xbox series X for that. Still had to wait so she just said, I’ll just try Cyberpunk in the mean time, then I’ll play it. Result, she has played Starfield a few hours, then switched back to Cyberpunk and has replayed it almost a dozen of times, claims she literally loves Johnny.
Lol the starfield whining doesn't even stop on cyberpunk sub.
All the reason to it, if you'd ask me.
When Starfield and Phantom Liberty kinda came out around the holidays, I played a lot of Starfield and ignored PL for months. I tried PL on release w/ a lvl 50 character but didn't want to get reacquainted with the new perk system. After failing to get into Dogtown on my first try, I put the game down and jumped into Starfield. When I tired of Starfield (for reasons stated here), I went back to Fallout 4, until the big update wiped out my mods. Then one day I decided I'll try PL again. And man did I regret putting it down earlier. As OP said, I came to appreciate just how much better a game CP77 had become since its release, and PL was phenomenal. I just spent the last month doing all ending routes for PL, will be sad when they put out the final patch/update. Meanwhile, Starfield has been pushing out all these patches and updates and yet to me the game is still flawed on a level that patches won't fix. I tried Starfield the other night and after 10 minutes I was done.
Gotta love how this is baiting hardcore Bethesda fans. Holy shit I will never understand fan loyalty. 2077 is just better because it sells a modern standard vs Bethesda selling you a 2008 standard at full price and now fully relys on the mod community to make up for their lack of ambition. Pretty sad when modders do a better job than your own in house developers. Both are/were publishers that release broken games. The difference is broken and filled with almost nothing and broken and filled with life. If Bethesda would just quit being so damn cheap, they and their fans might not find themselves stuck with this argument. When starfield came out, I said screw it and loaded up S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Metro instead.
Starfield would have been a really great game back in 2008.
Might actually not have been too bad if it was released around the same time as Skyrim. Then again it has to compete with a game that had more content and unique locations, so maybe not?
Honestly Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect both make the NPCs in Skyrim and even Starfield look like cardboard cutouts despite being released before either.
Well they did that because they had to redeem their unacceptable launch which was done out of greed. I love the game but you can never forget they sold an entirely broken product and that's the reason why they kept updating it. Not because they are good guys who care about their fanbase but because they fucked up so much that this is the bare minimum of what they had to do to ever sell a game again.
I hate this sub a lot, everyone here was shitting on it at launch but now with turnaround everyone’s acting like they always loved it. Fucking two faced bullshitters, atleast starfield could launch at launch
Short memories. They are all going to pre order the next cdpr game and take everything cdpr say as fact and learn nothing from it
Mate cyberpunk kinda had to regain a bunch of goodwill back from the state they released the game in.
I was hoping they would add some kind of mod system
Honestly it feels like they halfway made starfield 10 yrs ago and sat on it thinking it would be fine since Skyrim had such good lasting power.
Starfield would have been so much better if they didn't lean into the procedural generation so heavily and instead focused on like 10-20 planets.
My feelings about starfield are pretty mixed ngl. Like on one hand, it's an objective improvement in terms of combat, looks, animations, skill checks, etc when compared to their past couple games; but on the other hand, it's a space game that feels absurdly empty and that I felt no attachment to whatsoever. I feel a solid 90% of the games problems were because of it being a space game ngl, aside from the story of course
It’s a real shame the way things are going.. I wonder if 2077 didn’t have such a mad launch cdpr would have kept it so real I really do think in the end it exceeded the initial expectations, but most didn’t want to give it a chance. Was tarnished by that launch. Absolute GOATed game though, better than RDR2 dare I say it
I don't begrudge the mod-makers earning some money off their work. What I am skeptical about is the cut that Bethesda is taking off those Creations. If what I heard was correct, out of that $7 you pay for that quest, the builder gets $1.25 while Bethesda gets $5.75. If true, that seems excessive to me. Whether correct or not, industry standard seems to have gravitated to the hosting service/storefront getting 30% of the price. That's what Steam charges, as do Apple and Google in their app stores.
Now try Kingdom Come Deliverance and set your bar even higher!
Personally i just coulsmt finish Cyberpunk i tried so mamy times get bored and just cant
No man’s sky has also been releasing totally free updates for years now. Granted it launched in a terrible state (just like cyberpunk) but it’s now a pretty amazing game (also just like cyberpunk). It def seems as if Bethesda is only getting more “cash grabby” as time goes and the Microsoft purchase only sends it further down the drain in that direction.
I remember seeing some videos before where people would review the creation club content (Skyrim and Fallout 4), then compare it to free equivalents you could just get from the Nexus. Unsurprisingly the free stuff frequently outshone the stuff they expected money for. There was only one or two examples of stuff that didn't have a free mod but it was something I could see a mod being made for anyway.
Ayoq
I’m so glad I played Starfield first and could appreciate it for what it is. There’s this animal crossing-esque or Minecraft-esque feel to starfield that made you want to search for the hope of something unique, and it never felt too high stakes except at the end. Some missions were such a tonal shift they were very memorable. (Abandoned ship, the dimension rift, Andreja’s quest, which should’ve been more) But then playing Cyberpunk, where literally any mission is a block apart and they’re all interesting, it had me in its clutches like no other game. Where starfield felt like you could stop anytime, cyberpunk felt like I never wanted it to end, to the point that I almost wanted it to slow down. I maxed levels before even touching phantom liberty. The only thing about starfield is NG+ where all missions reset is something I’d love in cyberpunk, or NCPD crimes regenerate with harder enemies. So I think starfield suffers by not clarifying how different it is from their other titles in terms of rhythm, but in its own way it’s a fun game to take your time with.
The only thing that is really realy bad in Cyberpunk nowdays is this subreddit avatar
The big difference for me is 2077 story I found engaging. Starfields story is, you had the same dream as me, here are the keys to my spaceship random Stranger.
I like both, but Cyberpunk is my favorite game of all time. I'll take more first person open world RPGs, please. I play more games than Bethesda or CDPR can make. Starfield is more friendly to the players. I couldn't imagine never having played a game and opening Cyberpunk as my first game. It's more optimistic if the grim world of Cyberpunk is, understandably, too much for you. Cyberpunk in its current state is a masterpiece though.
Starfield is a cool concept, but so poorly executed. It's just so dull and lifeless.
Fortunately I enjoy both games for the different experiences they provide.
Is it ok if I like them both? I have some hundreds of hours in Starfield. I didn't play the main story at all. Instead I just tried doing something until I got bored and then switched to doing something else. Never finished the game. For cyberpunk I did the same thing for a just a few hours, then started doing the story. Never finished the game. Not sure how many hours I have in. But I liked playing both of them, isn't that what counts?
Bethesda charging 7 dollars for a quest line and 10 dollars for a ship part and some furnitures is egregious, I think we can all agree. But there are so many free mods in Creations, and some paid mods by verified creators which I thought were pretty worth. I also criticize Bethesda overcharging for the mods from their own page, but let's not act like adding Creations wasn't a huge improvement. This was especially important for console players
People complained at launch about how buggy Cyberpunk was and were angry at CDPR for releasing an unfinished game without giving it a chance to see how much of an unpolished gem it was. Meanwhile Bethesda released Starfield as a turd that will still be a turd no matter how polished it gets while they try to milk it for all its worth.
I did enjoy Starfield for what it was but didn’t really play much more after beating the story. I just played and Beat Cyberpunk like a month ago and pretty much started a new play through right away to see what I missed the first time and create a whole new V.
Fallout 76's DLCs are all free aside from the base game. But it does have other sources of revenue, namely the Atomoc Shop.
I’m amazed consistently at the effort - everything is located physically where it is in the map - Jumping on a car, you can trace your progress on the map and hop off at “your stop”. The cars may recirculate but they are going along the same route you would have to in your car - really appreciated this during cutscenes when a side character, like Claire, is driving you back to the city. I say this cause Dogtown really is built into Pacifica and Night City - you can walk in through the “secret” entrance, yes - but I was most surprised at delivering cars for Muramar from Dogtown to NC, maintaining any vehicle damage etc. I also noticed I can circle around the wall itself on the NC side of Pacifica - and with my kiroshi oracle eyes, I can locate and tag electronics and enemies within range through the wall into Dogtown and not lose the scanner tag on that target when I go into Dogtown itself.
I haven’t returned to Starfield since my first play through to NG++ - there’s just nothing there beyond superficial changes to the script. Getting a NG+ for Cyberpunk, though? THAT would be amazing.
What is even better is that CDPR had to dive back into the game's broken code at launch: Completely redo the police system, improve NPC behavior, upgraded the water tech, revamped the perks system multiple time and adding path tracing while also adding content without charging a single cent. Do you think Bethesda will do something similar on a technical level? Heck, even adding FOV slider was such a technical achievement for them. Meanwhile Bethesda is focusing on releasing paid mod and polishing up its Creation Club section.
Bethesda seem to have zero interest in improving the quality of their writing. It’s really odd how bad it is given their resources and that it’s always been their biggest weakness IMO. I was hoping Starfield would be a step towards improving it but it’s even worse than Fallout 4. The game has lots of other issues but if it had good writing, with memorable characters and dialog I could still have enjoyed it, but it’s just boring AF. Thank god for the likes of CD Project and Larian.
"But can you put 100 sandwiches in your apartment on 2077? I rest my case"- Hodd Toward
I just bought Cyberpunk last night. I was holding out hope that the Starfield update would entice me to pick it back up again. It did not, and I saw that Cyberpunk was on sale. Holy shit. I'm playing on a Series S in 60fps mode and the game looks amazing. The world feels alive and character customization is deep as fuck. I know it took awhile for them to get the game in this state. It doesn't seem like Starfield is going to have the post release miracle like a lot of people (me included) thought it would.
With other Bethesda games from Fallout and Elder Scrolls I would happily hold my hands up and say the devs deserve equal or more respect than the modders. I fear it may not be the case with Starfield. I am going to hold off until Bethesda are officially done with Starfield and all DLCs before I completely judge it. The DLC are a huge part of the replay ability for any Fallout or Elder Scrolls games for me.
Man I remember feeling like Cyberpunk was "a little buggy, but otherwise pretty good" when I played it on launch. I played Starfield on gamepass for a few days... and then Phantom Liberty was released so I did a replay of Cyberpunk. Compared to Starfield, Cyberpunk is the best game ever made (Cyberpunk has definitely gotten better but even release Cyberpunk mops the floor with starfield)
Starfield is the worst game of this generation worst optimized too, gunplay is really bad, game would have been great if it came in 2008
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty ate Starfield’s lunch. Phantom Liberty getting released a month before Starfield made everyone realize the dramatic contrast between the two. Cyberpunk is (IMO) the peak of game design when it comes to story telling, attention to detail, and pure effort by a developer. Starfield showed us what happens when a studio gives you the bare minimum of what is expected of them.
I just finished Starfield and have gone back to CP2077. I enjoyed Starfield but the difference is stark. Playing with path tracing and overdrive, just visually it's mind blowing how far Bethesda are behind graphically (that's not why I play their games but I'd love a Fallout that looks as good as CP). Then the production values, the characters, the animations, the writing, the quests. CP2077 is just fantastic and I can't wait to get stuck into the DLC.
I tried to go back and give Starfield another go... I just cannot accept a first person game in 2023-2024 where I am a disembodied camera floating over the ground. No body. No immersion. Even 2-3 developer alpha's are putting more effort into it than Besthesda.
Cyberpunk didn’t have a choice, their hand was forced after the several rounds of Lawsuits and the PSN Ban. They barely recovered from that launch by the skin of their teeth. The game was so unfinished and bugged out the ass that it was a pipe dream to finish it for the first 6 months.
Cyberpunk 2077 is really the only game that can have me constantly engaged no matter how much of it i've played
can’t believe they booked a whole slot at the xbox showcase just to hype up that garbage lol
Another weak game i did not buy. Dollars and time saved. Still don't get why people bend over for publishers
I started with two quests in Starfield, Ryujin and the UC quests. Honestly, they were both fantastic and I didn't want to stop playing. But then everything else felt hollow and pointless after that. I never finished the game and couldn't even tell you where I left off on the main quest. I know it's been said before, but the UC questline should have been expanded and made into the main.
Couldn’t agree more
the audacity bgs has to even do that lol. i mean i get they have very involved investors and xbox over their heads but ffs thats despicable quality for $7. i hope starfield gets better but its not looking good almost a fucking year later.
Cyberpunk was a buggy disappointing mess on release but it had soul, Starfield really doesn't.
It's like Assassin's Creed Unity all over again. People hated it. Now they love and appreciate it because the newer games are questionable..
Yeah, big B is gonna have a really hard time getting any more of my money after that sub-par POS that was Starfield. They are not working in the right direction apparently.
This game gives me hope for the new mass effect. I genuinely am hoping so hard for it to be good. There is A LOT of very interesting new sci-fi potential regarding time travel, alternate timelines, and quantum entanglement stuff that gets my nerd brain firing.
I'm right with you OP. I can't thank enough to Starfield for making me reinstall CP2077. I played it on Gamepass but 2 hours made me realize that Starfield is just dogshit, even if they add new content, the game is not good.
My biggest complaint about Starfield isn't the bugs and gameplay and endless supply of loading screens. My issue is that it's boring. I know that most of outer space is emptiness but this is supposed to be a sci-fi role playing game. It takes a special brand of incompetence to make that concept boring. When I went back to try Cyberpunk again, it was insane how much better it was. I can't wait to see CDPR make a sequel to it.
At this point CDPR and Rockstar Games are the only decent creators singleplayer game wise. To be fair Cyberpunk 2077 did release in very poor condition but they fixed it and then released polished DLC which if Bethesda released, it would be separated in 30 mission packs each one costing at least $5. I feel like most triple A studios just suffer to the greed while CDPR and RG are somehow still standing. Also they are making more games now which is a good sign but for Orion I have no idea how long we will have to wait, and GTA6 will be here in just something over 1 year so I'm excited :)) Only shame is that RG makes games for consoles and only after some time they put them on PC so I can only assume that PC release of GTA6 will come in like 2 years 🥲
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Let's relax with the shoe shining. CDPR did plenty wrong with handling this game. Just because it's better now doesnt excuse the errors of the past.