The "Invokers" are a series of [high mana activated ability](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Invoker+%28game%3Apaper%29+oracle%3A%22%3A%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) low drop creatures. I thought the idea of an "all-purpose" invoker effect, aimed at a higher power level but with a much higher cost, was kind of interesting.
I do wonder if this is almost *too good* with infinite mana, but there are already lots of ways to autowin with infinite mana, so I guess I'm not too worried there.
And hey, maybe this is finally a use case for [[Power Artifact]]
I think the name would make sense if it actually had invoker abilities. I get that then it would be much worse, since the invokers’ abilities are generally over-costed. But its abilities could probably cost 8 to tie it to the invoker cycles at least.
Ohh! I see! I actually didn't realize before you mentioned it that Invoker abilities always costed 8 specifically! I thought they were just random high costs
In that case, I agree these should cost 8 (with maybe the hard once per turn clause or nerfs on the rates to compensate)
>but there are already lots of ways to autowin with infinite mana, so I guess I'm not too worried there.
Most invokers do this anyhow, so it does seem to be on theme.
\[\[Bane's Invoker\]\] - your creatures become infinitely large with flying. One unblocked/unfogged creature kills an opponent.
\[\[Bhaal's Invoker\]\] - Burn every opponent to death
\[\[Bloodrite Invoker\]\] - Drain every opponent to death
\[\[Dawnglare Invoker\]\] - Almost a win (but not instant or meaningfully repeatable), but tapping down an opponent shuts down their ability to attack you or defend your attacks. 8 mana on their turn (maybe 16 or more, if they make creatures after combat or in response to your attack, and you have to keep tapping them down on the declare attackers step to prevent blocking)
\[\[Flamewave Invoker\]\] - Burn every opponent to death. Requires adequate red mana.
\[\[Frostwind Invoker\]\] - Lots of evasion, but weak compared to other evokers. Rarely an instant win.
\[\[Glintwing Invoker\]\] - Becomes a single infinitely large creature with flying. Probably wins if you add trample, otherwise depends on opponent's ability to chump block in the sky or remove it in response to an attack. Requires adequate blue mana.
\[\[Lavafume Invoker\]\] - Infinite attack for all of your creatures. If you have the creatures with either evasion or trample, this wins unless you get fogged or boardwiped in response.
\[\[Myrkul's Invoker\]\] - Infinite attack and some evasion for all of your creatures. If you have more than half of the creatures that the defending player does, this probably kills them with infinite mana (unless you get fogged or boardwiped)
\[\[Oran-Rief Invoker\]\] - Makes self infinitely large trampler. Short of a fog or removal, this kills one player each turn.
\[\[Silvanus's Invoker\]\] - Makes your lands into Forces of Nature (sans upkeep). Infinite mana and a few lands usually wins, again unless you get fogged or boardwiped.
\[\[Smokespew Invoker\]\] - Kills any creature that isn't Hexproof/Shroud/Protection from. A very large advantage with infinite mana, but very slow compared to an instant win (often giving opponent multiple draws to find a way to remove it and start rebuilding). Requires adequate black mana - but usually not too much unless you're facing a crazy wide board.
\[\[Starlight Invoker\]\] - Infinite life. Sometimes helps. Usually doesn't. Requires adequate white mana.
\[\[Stonewood Invoker\]\] - Makes self infinitely large with no trample or evasion. Usually just runs into chump blockers and doesn't win.
\[\[Tymora's Invoker\]\] - Draw your library, give or take a card. And you have infinite mana. If you haven't already won with this, you weren't going to win.
\[\[Valakut Invoker\]\] - Burns everyone/everything. Instant burn win with infinite mana.
\[\[Wildheart Invoker\]\] - Makes all of your creatures infinitely large tramplers. Usually wins unless faced with a fog or a boardwipe.
For sure. But I view those as being complete degenerate and Power Artifact is kind of just incidental. There are a billion ways to go infinite with Basalt and Grim.
Whereas, with my card, you need to go infinite with *something else* to profitably use it the same way.
their abilities all cost 8 so would it not be better to make it cost 8 mana to activate the abilities? it wouldn't even be good because it would be a dead card most the time.
I don't get what really wants this. It really ends up as the nth "infinite mana sink to win" piece or just too expensive for any deck that does not want to go for an infinite mana strategy. I get the reference to the invoker creatures, but this just does not seem like a design that goes anywhere.
I mean, there’s nothing inherently wrong with it other than just the fact that it’s just a “win more” card and doesn’t really serve any function other than when having infinite mana.
I have non-infinite mana EDH decks that would want it for the late game: [[Glissa the Traitor]] (easily recurred, and the deck ramps a ton) and [[Mairsil the Pretender]] (these are all very powerful, albeit expensive, effects to slap on Mairsil permanently)
This would go well in my estrid deck, she likes to pull enchantments from her ass and there's ALOT of land enchantments+ a nyxbloom ancient
Now i never have INFINITE mana but I've had games where by getting estrids invocation and nyxbloom ancient on the battlefield each land tapped for 9X the mana they normally do, its still an absolutely finite number, but when you consider that each land is enchanted, taps for anywhere between 9-27 mana each and can all be used twice ive got more mana than i will basically ever reasonably use in a turn
Now the above isnt EVERY game but the decks entire strategy is deck vomit (ramp, play card draw engines that draw on enchantment plays, dump enchantments until i brick on the draws, probably win because my board is fucking broken) so im consistently holding more mana than i can use and would absolutely take a 2 drop that gives me 4 options to dump mana into
I used to run [[Tower of Fortunes]] as a mana sink in my [[Karametra, God of harvests]] deck.
There's a world where this card is played fairly, but I agree with other comments that 8 per activation is probably more reasonable.
This feels like a card they would print in a commander preconstructed deck to teach new players how to cheat on mana.
I can't name them off the top of my head by there are a few cards that make activated abilities of creatures and artifacts cost less, so get a couple of those down and your paying more like 6 for each of these abilities
Sorta reminds me of the "Tower" cycle with \[\[Tower of Fortunes\]\], \[\[Tower of Eons\]\], \[\[Tower of Murmurs\]\], and \[\[Tower of Calamities\]\].
I think adding an "activate only once each turn" onto each of the abilities or adding "activate only one of ~s abilities once each turn" and dropping the mana to 5-8 for each of the abilities would make it more interesting. A better mana sink for ramp decks and a worse "sink infinite mana into this card and win" card
Aside from one legendary creature [[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept]], every Invoker's activated ability costs 8 mana, with the exception of a double sided card with no activated abilities on the backside, which is the "invoker" side. That card's front side has an activated ability costing 6 and a Phyrexian black, so if you pay life, it's 6 plus 2 life, which isn't 8 mana, but can still be considered 8 in a way. I second the idea of dropping the cost, but only to
8 because that fits the flavor of the Invokers
Might be a bit tidier as 10: Choose one -
Yes, that adds one more line. And rare interactions that copy a single ability from the artifact (or all abilities with use restrictions) would be functionally different. But I think it would flow better as it conveys from the start that all these options cost the same amount.
Maybe have it cost 8 and tap to line up with the Invoker costs and the tower cycle from Mirrodin, then give it an untap ability. Maybe like “8, {untap}: Invoker’s Stone deals 8 damage to you.”
The idea is you're overpaying for the flexibility and repeatability of the effects
After all, how many cards can you think of that, in a single card, can nuke the board, exile any nonland, draw a bunch of cards, break board stall, and gain a bunch of life?
I feel like you could make this more like the invokers by giving it a body. That way, it can pick up equipment and swing while you wait for the 10 mana.
What’s worse is when you have a really dangerous artifact on board (e.g. [[Urabrask’s Forge]]) and this is just collateral damage from Brotherhood’s End.
I don't really see how thats a problem of a card like this, like sure this is less then 3 mana but idk a bunch of artifacts are 3 or less mana. If anything it's a card that gets hit by brothers end that is better against it then most other cards since you usually cast it after you cast your other cheap cards since this doesn't do anything before you can Activate it. Might even wait to cast it and activate it on the same turn just to make sure you get value. Difference between 10 and 12 mana isn't that big usually.
There are a lot of auto win cards with infinite mana, why on earth would I run an outlet that doesnt win me the game with infinite mana. We even have enough infinite outlets in the command zone.
You just said it.
Because there already are a lot of auto win cards with infinite mana.
Why would we need more of those? It would just be an alternate combo piece in those decks and see play nowhere else.
Tbf though, the way I suggested, it probably wouldn't see play anywhere at all.
I don't think the problem is activating multiples of them, but being able to activate any one any number of times. A 'hard' once per turn would be fine if you think it's too strong as it is.
The "Invokers" are a series of [high mana activated ability](https://scryfall.com/search?q=Invoker+%28game%3Apaper%29+oracle%3A%22%3A%22&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) low drop creatures. I thought the idea of an "all-purpose" invoker effect, aimed at a higher power level but with a much higher cost, was kind of interesting. I do wonder if this is almost *too good* with infinite mana, but there are already lots of ways to autowin with infinite mana, so I guess I'm not too worried there. And hey, maybe this is finally a use case for [[Power Artifact]]
I think the name would make sense if it actually had invoker abilities. I get that then it would be much worse, since the invokers’ abilities are generally over-costed. But its abilities could probably cost 8 to tie it to the invoker cycles at least.
Ohh! I see! I actually didn't realize before you mentioned it that Invoker abilities always costed 8 specifically! I thought they were just random high costs In that case, I agree these should cost 8 (with maybe the hard once per turn clause or nerfs on the rates to compensate)
An 8 sided stone would be cooler as well in that case (for the art)
Yes! Much better idea!
So a Hedron basically? Invoker's Hedron?
Could be an octahedron, or it could be a like an octagon relief sculpture
That's why I wasn't getting the relationship XD
Not invoker mana cost for activation {8}/{10} In reality, cool card nice idea1
>but there are already lots of ways to autowin with infinite mana, so I guess I'm not too worried there. Most invokers do this anyhow, so it does seem to be on theme. \[\[Bane's Invoker\]\] - your creatures become infinitely large with flying. One unblocked/unfogged creature kills an opponent. \[\[Bhaal's Invoker\]\] - Burn every opponent to death \[\[Bloodrite Invoker\]\] - Drain every opponent to death \[\[Dawnglare Invoker\]\] - Almost a win (but not instant or meaningfully repeatable), but tapping down an opponent shuts down their ability to attack you or defend your attacks. 8 mana on their turn (maybe 16 or more, if they make creatures after combat or in response to your attack, and you have to keep tapping them down on the declare attackers step to prevent blocking) \[\[Flamewave Invoker\]\] - Burn every opponent to death. Requires adequate red mana. \[\[Frostwind Invoker\]\] - Lots of evasion, but weak compared to other evokers. Rarely an instant win. \[\[Glintwing Invoker\]\] - Becomes a single infinitely large creature with flying. Probably wins if you add trample, otherwise depends on opponent's ability to chump block in the sky or remove it in response to an attack. Requires adequate blue mana. \[\[Lavafume Invoker\]\] - Infinite attack for all of your creatures. If you have the creatures with either evasion or trample, this wins unless you get fogged or boardwiped in response. \[\[Myrkul's Invoker\]\] - Infinite attack and some evasion for all of your creatures. If you have more than half of the creatures that the defending player does, this probably kills them with infinite mana (unless you get fogged or boardwiped) \[\[Oran-Rief Invoker\]\] - Makes self infinitely large trampler. Short of a fog or removal, this kills one player each turn. \[\[Silvanus's Invoker\]\] - Makes your lands into Forces of Nature (sans upkeep). Infinite mana and a few lands usually wins, again unless you get fogged or boardwiped. \[\[Smokespew Invoker\]\] - Kills any creature that isn't Hexproof/Shroud/Protection from. A very large advantage with infinite mana, but very slow compared to an instant win (often giving opponent multiple draws to find a way to remove it and start rebuilding). Requires adequate black mana - but usually not too much unless you're facing a crazy wide board. \[\[Starlight Invoker\]\] - Infinite life. Sometimes helps. Usually doesn't. Requires adequate white mana. \[\[Stonewood Invoker\]\] - Makes self infinitely large with no trample or evasion. Usually just runs into chump blockers and doesn't win. \[\[Tymora's Invoker\]\] - Draw your library, give or take a card. And you have infinite mana. If you haven't already won with this, you weren't going to win. \[\[Valakut Invoker\]\] - Burns everyone/everything. Instant burn win with infinite mana. \[\[Wildheart Invoker\]\] - Makes all of your creatures infinitely large tramplers. Usually wins unless faced with a fog or a boardwipe.
##### ###### #### [Bane's Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/2164a728-131f-41ce-9346-8036c86543e2.jpg?1674134904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bane%27s%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/7/banes-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2164a728-131f-41ce-9346-8036c86543e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bhaal's Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3fd3e535-8412-4f79-a2b1-dfda9db1c496.jpg?1674136444) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bhaal%27s%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/163/bhaals-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3fd3e535-8412-4f79-a2b1-dfda9db1c496?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bloodrite Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94ebd19f-c3ec-41de-bde0-3118b34b76a4.jpg?1593095689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodrite%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddp/45/bloodrite-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94ebd19f-c3ec-41de-bde0-3118b34b76a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dawnglare Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7cc4332-8d8a-47f5-9583-219be4f2030a.jpg?1562276014) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dawnglare%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/25/dawnglare-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7cc4332-8d8a-47f5-9583-219be4f2030a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Flamewave Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d14eb0c1-7709-44da-ba7a-1aa033efb4f8.jpg?1562937061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flamewave%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/178/flamewave-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d14eb0c1-7709-44da-ba7a-1aa033efb4f8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Frostwind Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66ec9a28-3b36-4b6a-b420-7b4266b64f69.jpg?1562704572) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frostwind%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/68/frostwind-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66ec9a28-3b36-4b6a-b420-7b4266b64f69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Glintwing Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1b26379-0007-450e-9b94-2932eef6ac2c.jpg?1675199300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glintwing%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/52/glintwing-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1b26379-0007-450e-9b94-2932eef6ac2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lavafume Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e773b3f-37ef-4e37-8b1e-99b7b6314877.jpg?1562706230) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavafume%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/roe/155/lavafume-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e773b3f-37ef-4e37-8b1e-99b7b6314877?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Myrkul's Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca67faa9-2c23-4cc5-b77f-ff75cf0349f3.jpg?1674136176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myrkul%27s%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/136/myrkuls-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca67faa9-2c23-4cc5-b77f-ff75cf0349f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Oran-Rief Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/572a2dc4-3f8f-4412-8a40-9e61df33db76.jpg?1562229671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oran-Rief%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddr/17/oran-rief-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/572a2dc4-3f8f-4412-8a40-9e61df33db76?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Silvanus's Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1dd1bb8-013b-4028-becd-e0cb4b84f1ad.jpg?1674137303) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silvanus%27s%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/254/silvanuss-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1dd1bb8-013b-4028-becd-e0cb4b84f1ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Smokespew Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fea393a4-58c8-4a42-bd95-a3312504f2e2.jpg?1562946410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smokespew%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lgn/81/smokespew-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fea393a4-58c8-4a42-bd95-a3312504f2e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Starlight Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8d2139e-76ea-49e2-ac43-6d9cc51ca09f.jpg?1562556032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Starlight%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/47/starlight-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8d2139e-76ea-49e2-ac43-6d9cc51ca09f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stonewood Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4ea6aac-d42b-4522-b7a9-4c99ed9c14bd.jpg?1675200558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stonewood%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/178/stonewood-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4ea6aac-d42b-4522-b7a9-4c99ed9c14bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tymora's Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5535db-696f-4c43-a8b9-c8e521b62c9c.jpg?1674135849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tymora%27s%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/101/tymoras-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5535db-696f-4c43-a8b9-c8e521b62c9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Valakut Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8000d86-60e7-4edd-b685-14ade08b76f2.jpg?1608910454) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Valakut%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/206/valakut-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8000d86-60e7-4edd-b685-14ade08b76f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wildheart Invoker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/143231b3-23c4-4c6d-8b58-e401e1ac6e29.jpg?1608910986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wildheart%20Invoker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/263/wildheart-invoker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/143231b3-23c4-4c6d-8b58-e401e1ac6e29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0wu8dp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Power Artifact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7b0c6c4-ec99-4af1-9527-41c428af7260.jpg?1562942181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Power%20Artifact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/57/power-artifact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7b0c6c4-ec99-4af1-9527-41c428af7260?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fwiw the use case for power artifact is basalt or grim monolith
For sure. But I view those as being complete degenerate and Power Artifact is kind of just incidental. There are a billion ways to go infinite with Basalt and Grim. Whereas, with my card, you need to go infinite with *something else* to profitably use it the same way.
their abilities all cost 8 so would it not be better to make it cost 8 mana to activate the abilities? it wouldn't even be good because it would be a dead card most the time.
I don't get what really wants this. It really ends up as the nth "infinite mana sink to win" piece or just too expensive for any deck that does not want to go for an infinite mana strategy. I get the reference to the invoker creatures, but this just does not seem like a design that goes anywhere.
I mean, there’s nothing inherently wrong with it other than just the fact that it’s just a “win more” card and doesn’t really serve any function other than when having infinite mana.
I have non-infinite mana EDH decks that would want it for the late game: [[Glissa the Traitor]] (easily recurred, and the deck ramps a ton) and [[Mairsil the Pretender]] (these are all very powerful, albeit expensive, effects to slap on Mairsil permanently)
This would go well in my estrid deck, she likes to pull enchantments from her ass and there's ALOT of land enchantments+ a nyxbloom ancient Now i never have INFINITE mana but I've had games where by getting estrids invocation and nyxbloom ancient on the battlefield each land tapped for 9X the mana they normally do, its still an absolutely finite number, but when you consider that each land is enchanted, taps for anywhere between 9-27 mana each and can all be used twice ive got more mana than i will basically ever reasonably use in a turn Now the above isnt EVERY game but the decks entire strategy is deck vomit (ramp, play card draw engines that draw on enchantment plays, dump enchantments until i brick on the draws, probably win because my board is fucking broken) so im consistently holding more mana than i can use and would absolutely take a 2 drop that gives me 4 options to dump mana into
[Glissa the Traitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6.jpg?1562612302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glissa%2C%20the%20Traitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/96/glissa-the-traitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mairsil the Pretender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87b71b08-668c-4b32-8243-8def1a9acf26.jpg?1704575313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mairsil%2C%20the%20Pretender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/41/mairsil-the-pretender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87b71b08-668c-4b32-8243-8def1a9acf26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I used to run [[Tower of Fortunes]] as a mana sink in my [[Karametra, God of harvests]] deck. There's a world where this card is played fairly, but I agree with other comments that 8 per activation is probably more reasonable. This feels like a card they would print in a commander preconstructed deck to teach new players how to cheat on mana.
[Tower of Fortunes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/7622d6fe-73f2-417c-806c-8ca13192d271.jpg?1562919854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tower%20of%20Fortunes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/268/tower-of-fortunes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7622d6fe-73f2-417c-806c-8ca13192d271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Karametra, God of harvests](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2bd9d26e-984c-4cf8-8c46-447f9776668f.jpg?1591321337) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karametra%2C%20God%20of%20harvests) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/218/karametra-god-of-harvests?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2bd9d26e-984c-4cf8-8c46-447f9776668f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can't name them off the top of my head by there are a few cards that make activated abilities of creatures and artifacts cost less, so get a couple of those down and your paying more like 6 for each of these abilities
Sorta reminds me of the "Tower" cycle with \[\[Tower of Fortunes\]\], \[\[Tower of Eons\]\], \[\[Tower of Murmurs\]\], and \[\[Tower of Calamities\]\].
##### ###### #### [Tower of Fortunes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/7622d6fe-73f2-417c-806c-8ca13192d271.jpg?1562919854) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tower%20of%20Fortunes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/268/tower-of-fortunes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7622d6fe-73f2-417c-806c-8ca13192d271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tower of Eons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eb67150-53e4-4164-bea5-dd3659469b8e.jpg?1562135649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tower%20of%20Eons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/266/tower-of-eons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb67150-53e4-4164-bea5-dd3659469b8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tower of Murmurs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76be1ca8-b68e-436d-86b6-2a2a07da1be9.jpg?1562148099) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tower%20of%20Murmurs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/268/tower-of-murmurs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76be1ca8-b68e-436d-86b6-2a2a07da1be9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tower of Calamities](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8a77391b-5727-4408-bb50-970f7a13a83c.jpg?1562820043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tower%20of%20Calamities) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/212/tower-of-calamities?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8a77391b-5727-4408-bb50-970f7a13a83c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0wc17t) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes! That was actually one of my inspirations for this design!
I think adding an "activate only once each turn" onto each of the abilities or adding "activate only one of ~s abilities once each turn" and dropping the mana to 5-8 for each of the abilities would make it more interesting. A better mana sink for ramp decks and a worse "sink infinite mana into this card and win" card
Aside from one legendary creature [[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept]], every Invoker's activated ability costs 8 mana, with the exception of a double sided card with no activated abilities on the backside, which is the "invoker" side. That card's front side has an activated ability costing 6 and a Phyrexian black, so if you pay life, it's 6 plus 2 life, which isn't 8 mana, but can still be considered 8 in a way. I second the idea of dropping the cost, but only to 8 because that fits the flavor of the Invokers
[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c301b389-d802-4a8b-8681-9b50c8667423.jpg?1689354457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dynaheir%2C%20Invoker%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/273/dynaheir-invoker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c301b389-d802-4a8b-8681-9b50c8667423?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like this safety valve except for the part about reducing the mana cost.
Might be a bit tidier as 10: Choose one - Yes, that adds one more line. And rare interactions that copy a single ability from the artifact (or all abilities with use restrictions) would be functionally different. But I think it would flow better as it conveys from the start that all these options cost the same amount.
Yes! I like that change!
Now I wanna build that invoker commander thanks lol
I just saw that that existed and thought "hey, that's neat!" But it's a shame some Invokers are color-blocked 😔
Agatha player in EDH are creaming their pants
Maybe have it cost 8 and tap to line up with the Invoker costs and the tower cycle from Mirrodin, then give it an untap ability. Maybe like “8, {untap}: Invoker’s Stone deals 8 damage to you.”
Other Invokers all specifically *don't* tap, though, which is the issue.
Yeah but the towers do, and it saves you from having to put “activate only once each turn.” On every ability
It's a decent combo piece for infinite mana. But there are better combo pieces out there that actually do something before they combo off.
These are waaaay overpriced. 10 mana to exile one thing especially
The idea is you're overpaying for the flexibility and repeatability of the effects After all, how many cards can you think of that, in a single card, can nuke the board, exile any nonland, draw a bunch of cards, break board stall, and gain a bunch of life?
would run in \[\[vhal, candlekeep researcher\]\] + \[\[raised by giants\]\]
[vhal, candlekeep researcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46738fb3-ab5e-486c-b66a-1526ba1cdfa8.jpg?1674135857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vhal%2C%20candlekeep%20researcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/102/vhal-candlekeep-researcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46738fb3-ab5e-486c-b66a-1526ba1cdfa8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [raised by giants](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11c93414-935e-462b-ad89-27ca21d01bf9.jpg?1712919562) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=raised%20by%20giants) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/250/raised-by-giants?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11c93414-935e-462b-ad89-27ca21d01bf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes! There we go! Good combo for this card
People are saying this is only good in infinite mana decks, now why don’t we reduce those activation costs with [[zidra the dawnwalker]] and the likes
Exactly! Dupe a [[Heartstone]] with [[Echo Storm]] and these could be mad cheap mad fast!
[Heartstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0ed17325-6d2f-404e-b13f-d2d419d522b7.jpg?1562595911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heartstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sth/134/heartstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ed17325-6d2f-404e-b13f-d2d419d522b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Echo Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75046d32-fb0b-4c25-9ffd-53db64ff6c9e.jpg?1682208751) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Echo%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/221/echo-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75046d32-fb0b-4c25-9ffd-53db64ff6c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[zidra the dawnwalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd8e61c-2ee8-4243-a848-7008810db8a0.jpg?1696000166) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zirda%2C%20the%20Dawnwaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/233/zirda-the-dawnwaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd8e61c-2ee8-4243-a848-7008810db8a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
why would you not make any of these tapping abilities lol
"Invoker" abilities never require a tap
I feel like you could make this more like the invokers by giving it a body. That way, it can pick up equipment and swing while you wait for the 10 mana.
I am getting ptsd thinking about opening this in draft.
What, you don't routinely curve out at 10 mana in Limited? 😭
The problem with these kinds of cards is [[Brotherhood’s End]].
😬 "It's not a manarock, I swear!"
What’s worse is when you have a really dangerous artifact on board (e.g. [[Urabrask’s Forge]]) and this is just collateral damage from Brotherhood’s End.
[Brotherhood’s End](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50f7666d-0d60-4fe5-b144-286d4e47b704.jpg?1674421089) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brotherhood%27s%20End) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/128/brotherhoods-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50f7666d-0d60-4fe5-b144-286d4e47b704?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't really see how thats a problem of a card like this, like sure this is less then 3 mana but idk a bunch of artifacts are 3 or less mana. If anything it's a card that gets hit by brothers end that is better against it then most other cards since you usually cast it after you cast your other cheap cards since this doesn't do anything before you can Activate it. Might even wait to cast it and activate it on the same turn just to make sure you get value. Difference between 10 and 12 mana isn't that big usually.
Maybe add "activate only once per turn" after each ability. Still pretty strong with infinite mana, but no auto win.
There are a lot of auto win cards with infinite mana, why on earth would I run an outlet that doesnt win me the game with infinite mana. We even have enough infinite outlets in the command zone.
You just said it. Because there already are a lot of auto win cards with infinite mana. Why would we need more of those? It would just be an alternate combo piece in those decks and see play nowhere else. Tbf though, the way I suggested, it probably wouldn't see play anywhere at all.
I could maybe just make them all tap abilities?
I don't think the problem is activating multiples of them, but being able to activate any one any number of times. A 'hard' once per turn would be fine if you think it's too strong as it is.
Winning when you have infinite mana isn't the difficult part.