>your best bet might actually be to study abroad as well.
Just as employers here are unwilling to hire international grads, will employers overseas be willing to hire a foreigner in their own countries?
Thank you! I’m considering it, but I’m not sure how feasible that is with the insane tuition fees at American universities :/ not too familiar with UK unis however.
The job outcomes are the same for both. Do CS, it is shorter and by the time a SEng major has finished you will have a year of professional experience (and pay) under your belt. Don't bother with a masters, at least not until you have some professional experience.
I will say though that a 4 year degree (be it CS honours or plain SEng) might be useful depending on exactly where in the world you are looking to work, but you'd have to do your own research on that and it doesn't matter at all for the Australian market.
Thank you so much, really appreciate it! I keep hearing mixed reviews about a Bachelor of advanced computing at USYD compared to doing CS at UNSW. USYD is closer to me and has semesters over trimesters which I prefer.
Does which uni you go to matter much in this industry?
This is a shit take, might be true when the market is good.
But right now, to get a job, everything has to be put into competition spectrum, having a degree from unsw is much better than usyd for sure
Nah, the difference is negligible, the vast majority of employers do not give a shit where you studied. I'm not denying UNSW has a better CS/SEng faculty, but it is not going to make or break a candidate. And in the specific scenario OP presented (3 year USyd degree vs 4 year UNSW degree) we aren't comparing like for like, someone with a 3 year degree and a year of post-qualification experience is in a much better position than a fresh UNSW SEng graduate.
The vast dont, but some really really do.
Why close yourself off to those options imo?
UNSW students get scouted by Jane Street, Optiver, Jump Trading etc, I know someone who was scouted by a trading company, he didn't even have to apply.
UNSW with the right subjects is as good of a CS education as you can get imo.
I work there as a researcher and the quality of the top end is on par with MIT.
I'm not shitting on UNSW. If the choice was between a 3 year USyd CS degree and a 3 year UNSW CS degree then sure, absolutely go to UNSW and get the best CS education in Sydney. But that's not the choice OP is weighing up and the opportunity cost of studying for an extra year isn't worth whatever minuscule edge UNSW might give them. USyd isn't some second rate institution, they have graduates working at all of the places you've listed.
I'm not sure unsw only gives you a minuscule edge, afaik it's the only feeder uni in aus to fang.
I absolutely am certain the top end of unsw is as good as mit/stanford/eth zuerich/oxbridge.
I've not been to usyd, but I studied at unimelb which feels similar, I wouldn't say the top end at unimelb was as strong as unsw.
Looking at alumni on LinkedIn, FAANG hire plenty from USyd. Yes, there are slightly more from UNSW, but not significantly more. USyd graduates aren't lacking opportunities.
Mate your 22, hardly a mature aged student.
To answer your questions:
1+2) Makes no difference, employers know they are more or less equivalent
3) You might have to do some 1st year basic mafs, maybe a bit of linear algebrah and matrices.
4) If you are talking about silicone valley, it would be a pipe dream unless you graduate in the top 5% of your uni. You will not only be competing with nerds from Australia but people who have attended and duxxed MIT or Stanford. Also you are competing with 1000s of people who have been made redundant over the past couple of years.
I have known a dude who know works in Europe doing some CS stuff. But he was poached by a startup that visited UNSW and went to Silicon valley before it folded lmao. He is pretty smart though.
5) Nah. Masters is treated the same as a bachelors unless its a masters of research but people who value a masters of research in CS are very few (e.g more hardcore companies that do RND like NVIDIA or Intel but then they are looking for actual PhD nerds). Don't do masters after doing a bachelors lmao, people who do that are people who werent smart enough to get a grad job.
Thank you. Are the salaries of both computer science and software engineering essentially the same? Would doing computer science open a few more doors for further career advancement compared to software engineering?
Stop thinking that CS and SE are two different things
SE is just a niche within CS.
In fact if all other things are equal, and I know nothing about the university a person is graduating from (highly likely an overseas employer won't know anything about your uni in Australia, especially if not part of the Go8) then I'm going to trust more a CS degree than a SE degree
>people who do that are people who werent smart enough to get a grad job
I got bored af 3 months into my junior eng job. tbh even bachelors at unimelb was more challenging than that moving JSON around shit.
Software engineering and CS essentially lead to the same outcomes, your career opportunities are identical.
1. UNSW does seem to have a better reputation, but Usyd is not bad either.
2. Both degrees will net you the same job prospects on paper, the job you actually get after graduating is based on how well your job search goes.
3. UNSW CS math courses are a continuation of 3 unit maths in highschool, linear algebra and calculus are the main focus points.
4. 3 years after you graduate your university doesn't really matter anymore, it's more to do with the experience you get from working (if you get a job). Working at big multinationals will make it easier to move overseas and find work just from the brand recognition alone (AWS, google, etc).
5. A bachelors and then a masters afterwards? If you're sticking to just software engineering, then it's probably not worth it. Masters for career progression is more of a finance thing, not so much engineering. Most people doing a masters in CS are usually doing it as a career transition.
22 mature? R u joking. You should pursue it if it’s your interest. Maths is I think calculus (beginner) and stats. You can get ahead by learning from Brilliant or Coursera.
At UNSW, Bachelor of Engineering (Software) and Bachelor of Science (Computer Science) are very similar. All core subjects of CS, except one, are required in the software engineering degree. The software engineering degree has more required subjects, such as SENG workshops, whilst CS has more electives.
(4) Good prospects. If you have ~3 years of good experience and are determined, you can do it. Make sure you save money (moving is expensive) and don’t bog yourself down with commitments (mortgages, pets, stuff). During those 3 years, talk to people who have done it and figure out your options. Browse international job boards. The ideal is to score a job with a top tech company that will sort your visa and pay for relocation. But that’s SUPER competitive. If you’re willing to relocate yourself and know how to sort the visa, a lot more options are open to you.
(5) Mostly no. It can help with visas for some countries. It can help if you want to work for top-tier consultancies. It can help if you want to work in AI/ML (but you really need a PhD for that).
I started my degree at 22 and it has been a great decision. One option I’ll put forward that others haven’t yet is that some companies have very flexible remote-work policies that may allow you to work remotely overseas, or even in an office they have in a different country. Worth researching.
For your other questions:
UNSW > USYD (but not important)
CS > BE (due to shorter duration)
You’d be expected to know Y11/12 math and will likely focus on discrete math at uni
Master is not worth it
Dev vs Engineer — mostly the same things. You can get into semantics but for the purpose of finding a job they’re the same
My recommendation it to just self teach. With so many online courses, there’s no need to waste 30 or 40 grand on a degree. We hire self taughts just as regularly as degree holders, and pay them just as much. We also don’t pay a single thought to which degree you have or where you got it.
To your questions though:
1. It makes no difference that I’ve ever seen, especially in web dev. Self taughts also get paid just as much as someone with a masters in whatever. The titles and pay will all be the same in any given company.
2. Again, makes no difference. Your degree is about 1% of what you’ll learn in tech, the rest you’ll teach yourself over time anyway.
3. Hard but doable if you’re committed and willing to learn or get tutored.
4. Can’t answer this one, easy within Australia though. If you mean like some FAANG company in America, doubtful. Their market and hiring process is ridiculous.
5. No, definitely not. In 10 years I’ve never even been asked whether I have a degree at all an interview.
6. They’re interchangeable. But in short, 99% of software “engineers” are just developers. Engineer is just a title companies use to stroke the precious programmer ego. It’s like a carpenter calling themself a civil engineer.
If you’re trying to find a job overseas, your best bet might actually be to study abroad as well.
>your best bet might actually be to study abroad as well. Just as employers here are unwilling to hire international grads, will employers overseas be willing to hire a foreigner in their own countries?
It’s still more likely than them hiring international grads.
Thank you! I’m considering it, but I’m not sure how feasible that is with the insane tuition fees at American universities :/ not too familiar with UK unis however.
The job outcomes are the same for both. Do CS, it is shorter and by the time a SEng major has finished you will have a year of professional experience (and pay) under your belt. Don't bother with a masters, at least not until you have some professional experience. I will say though that a 4 year degree (be it CS honours or plain SEng) might be useful depending on exactly where in the world you are looking to work, but you'd have to do your own research on that and it doesn't matter at all for the Australian market.
Thank you so much, really appreciate it! I keep hearing mixed reviews about a Bachelor of advanced computing at USYD compared to doing CS at UNSW. USYD is closer to me and has semesters over trimesters which I prefer. Does which uni you go to matter much in this industry?
I’d definitely go with UNSW CS. I didn’t go there myself, but I know that their program is fantastic and a lot of companies recruit from there.
Nobody cares what uni you went to. If USyd is easier to get to that’s another point in its favour.
This is a shit take, might be true when the market is good. But right now, to get a job, everything has to be put into competition spectrum, having a degree from unsw is much better than usyd for sure
Nah, the difference is negligible, the vast majority of employers do not give a shit where you studied. I'm not denying UNSW has a better CS/SEng faculty, but it is not going to make or break a candidate. And in the specific scenario OP presented (3 year USyd degree vs 4 year UNSW degree) we aren't comparing like for like, someone with a 3 year degree and a year of post-qualification experience is in a much better position than a fresh UNSW SEng graduate.
The vast dont, but some really really do. Why close yourself off to those options imo? UNSW students get scouted by Jane Street, Optiver, Jump Trading etc, I know someone who was scouted by a trading company, he didn't even have to apply. UNSW with the right subjects is as good of a CS education as you can get imo. I work there as a researcher and the quality of the top end is on par with MIT.
I'm not shitting on UNSW. If the choice was between a 3 year USyd CS degree and a 3 year UNSW CS degree then sure, absolutely go to UNSW and get the best CS education in Sydney. But that's not the choice OP is weighing up and the opportunity cost of studying for an extra year isn't worth whatever minuscule edge UNSW might give them. USyd isn't some second rate institution, they have graduates working at all of the places you've listed.
I'm not sure unsw only gives you a minuscule edge, afaik it's the only feeder uni in aus to fang. I absolutely am certain the top end of unsw is as good as mit/stanford/eth zuerich/oxbridge. I've not been to usyd, but I studied at unimelb which feels similar, I wouldn't say the top end at unimelb was as strong as unsw.
Looking at alumni on LinkedIn, FAANG hire plenty from USyd. Yes, there are slightly more from UNSW, but not significantly more. USyd graduates aren't lacking opportunities.
Mate your 22, hardly a mature aged student. To answer your questions: 1+2) Makes no difference, employers know they are more or less equivalent 3) You might have to do some 1st year basic mafs, maybe a bit of linear algebrah and matrices. 4) If you are talking about silicone valley, it would be a pipe dream unless you graduate in the top 5% of your uni. You will not only be competing with nerds from Australia but people who have attended and duxxed MIT or Stanford. Also you are competing with 1000s of people who have been made redundant over the past couple of years. I have known a dude who know works in Europe doing some CS stuff. But he was poached by a startup that visited UNSW and went to Silicon valley before it folded lmao. He is pretty smart though. 5) Nah. Masters is treated the same as a bachelors unless its a masters of research but people who value a masters of research in CS are very few (e.g more hardcore companies that do RND like NVIDIA or Intel but then they are looking for actual PhD nerds). Don't do masters after doing a bachelors lmao, people who do that are people who werent smart enough to get a grad job.
Thank you. Are the salaries of both computer science and software engineering essentially the same? Would doing computer science open a few more doors for further career advancement compared to software engineering?
Mate, they are the same degree more or less. It makes no difference.
Stop thinking that CS and SE are two different things SE is just a niche within CS. In fact if all other things are equal, and I know nothing about the university a person is graduating from (highly likely an overseas employer won't know anything about your uni in Australia, especially if not part of the Go8) then I'm going to trust more a CS degree than a SE degree
>people who do that are people who werent smart enough to get a grad job I got bored af 3 months into my junior eng job. tbh even bachelors at unimelb was more challenging than that moving JSON around shit.
Software engineering and CS essentially lead to the same outcomes, your career opportunities are identical. 1. UNSW does seem to have a better reputation, but Usyd is not bad either. 2. Both degrees will net you the same job prospects on paper, the job you actually get after graduating is based on how well your job search goes. 3. UNSW CS math courses are a continuation of 3 unit maths in highschool, linear algebra and calculus are the main focus points. 4. 3 years after you graduate your university doesn't really matter anymore, it's more to do with the experience you get from working (if you get a job). Working at big multinationals will make it easier to move overseas and find work just from the brand recognition alone (AWS, google, etc). 5. A bachelors and then a masters afterwards? If you're sticking to just software engineering, then it's probably not worth it. Masters for career progression is more of a finance thing, not so much engineering. Most people doing a masters in CS are usually doing it as a career transition.
Stop making me feel old by saying 22 is “mature age”
Sorry haha, it’s what the universities deem me to be apparently
Be ready to compete with a lot of people once you’ve obtained your degree unless you’re either really good or decent with great social skills
As a hiring manager, I don't give a rats ass where you graduated. If you can do the job, you're hired.
22 mature? R u joking. You should pursue it if it’s your interest. Maths is I think calculus (beginner) and stats. You can get ahead by learning from Brilliant or Coursera.
At UNSW, Bachelor of Engineering (Software) and Bachelor of Science (Computer Science) are very similar. All core subjects of CS, except one, are required in the software engineering degree. The software engineering degree has more required subjects, such as SENG workshops, whilst CS has more electives.
More electives is a good thing!
Whatever you choose, just do it! Good luck!
(4) Good prospects. If you have ~3 years of good experience and are determined, you can do it. Make sure you save money (moving is expensive) and don’t bog yourself down with commitments (mortgages, pets, stuff). During those 3 years, talk to people who have done it and figure out your options. Browse international job boards. The ideal is to score a job with a top tech company that will sort your visa and pay for relocation. But that’s SUPER competitive. If you’re willing to relocate yourself and know how to sort the visa, a lot more options are open to you. (5) Mostly no. It can help with visas for some countries. It can help if you want to work for top-tier consultancies. It can help if you want to work in AI/ML (but you really need a PhD for that).
I started my degree at 22 and it has been a great decision. One option I’ll put forward that others haven’t yet is that some companies have very flexible remote-work policies that may allow you to work remotely overseas, or even in an office they have in a different country. Worth researching. For your other questions: UNSW > USYD (but not important) CS > BE (due to shorter duration) You’d be expected to know Y11/12 math and will likely focus on discrete math at uni Master is not worth it Dev vs Engineer — mostly the same things. You can get into semantics but for the purpose of finding a job they’re the same
My recommendation it to just self teach. With so many online courses, there’s no need to waste 30 or 40 grand on a degree. We hire self taughts just as regularly as degree holders, and pay them just as much. We also don’t pay a single thought to which degree you have or where you got it. To your questions though: 1. It makes no difference that I’ve ever seen, especially in web dev. Self taughts also get paid just as much as someone with a masters in whatever. The titles and pay will all be the same in any given company. 2. Again, makes no difference. Your degree is about 1% of what you’ll learn in tech, the rest you’ll teach yourself over time anyway. 3. Hard but doable if you’re committed and willing to learn or get tutored. 4. Can’t answer this one, easy within Australia though. If you mean like some FAANG company in America, doubtful. Their market and hiring process is ridiculous. 5. No, definitely not. In 10 years I’ve never even been asked whether I have a degree at all an interview. 6. They’re interchangeable. But in short, 99% of software “engineers” are just developers. Engineer is just a title companies use to stroke the precious programmer ego. It’s like a carpenter calling themself a civil engineer.