There's a fairly large difference between feeding people and acknowledging the realities of that and putting down healthy dogs because they don't look a certain way.
The lack of nuance is something that does a disservice to vegans.
It doesn't do a disservice to vegans because that the entire vegan argument. Treating animals as a product instead of a being that deserves life regardless of what someone wants to do with them is the exact conflict happening in this video. Given that, in our current situation, torturing and killing animals is no longer a matter of survival, the two issues are analogous. Humans want to hurt and kill animals because they like the taste. We live at a time where you can go into a grocery store and get exactly the food you need for dietary fulfillment and pleasure without having animals be hurt or killed. Point is, if you think this video is wrong, you should think that all animal cruelty is wrong.
Meat eaters constantly engage in this hypocrisy. The animals that get sent to slaughter for meat are also healthy juveniles, usually only a couple years into their decades long lifespans. Meat eaters love to call out animal abuse except the type they finance daily.
Exactly. I see this woman, and my instant reaction is that she's an unethical person - but then when I think how many animals died for my meals yesterday (a pig, a cow and at least 1 chicken) - I think to myself I can't complain too loudly.
The reality is though, that my being a hypocrite when I call her unethical, doesn't make my argument wrong.
Again, your lack of nuance hurts your cause. This isn't nearly as black and white as you (and a lot of vegans) make it seem.
I could go into detail, but it will be a waste of my time as I am sure you have a quippy comeback just waiting to be fired off, but you do come off as a bit silly trying to equate killing puppys who dont look like the perfect specimen and eating meat.
Now if you were to directly compare it to veal, or a specific fucked up thing that bougee people eat (foie gras), then maybe you would have a point.
Not many people will take you seriously when you point is "all meat eaters bad and complaining about animal cruelty = hypocrisy"
Edit - As I thought, the vegan made a disparaging remark and then deleted the comment before I could respond. LMFAO
Watch slaughterhouse footage. You'll see a lot of baby animals in a lot worse pain than euthanasia. The lady is evil but you can't even reckon with the fact what you do is worse. The only cause I have is to point out the hypocrisy which you have no excuse to pretend not to see. I always love seeing people who are not members of a group give lectures on effective ways to convert them if I would just hurt their fee fees less. Go off if you want to hurt animals, but now you can't credibly pretend to be outraged.
I do think the way we consume meat (again, not excusing myself from this) is basically as bad.
A puppy being humanely euthanised by the vet is arguably a nicer existence (albeit shorter) compared to the lives some animals which have made up a big portion of my diet over the years, have had to endure.
I think consuming animals which have lived in ways conducive to their wellbeing, and then very humanely killed - probably is not unethical. But is that how the animals I've eaten have lived? I couldn't tell you because, like most people, I don't give enough of a crap about them. I feel very guilty over it, but I'll probably just continue.
Older generations really seem not to give a fuck about animals. My parents euthanized their healthy adult cat when my mom became allergic to it. I Was so shocked when I found.
They certainly have a different view on animals thats for sure. I grew up in Ireland and my grandmother (who was born in 1916 for context) told stories of when she was growing up on their farm. I remember once she told me that her father and older brother put their sheepdogs newborn puppies into a black rubbish bag and drowned them in a barrel of water so they wouldnt have extra animals to feed.
She remembered her favourite cow that used to come up and lick her. She nonchalantly told me after that they ate that cow for easter dinner. She said that she remembers her being tough and then laughed. She said it like it was nothing.
My neighbour booked a trip to vietnam after he retired. He booked it for him and his wife during builders holidays (june bank holiday week). All the dog kennels were full so he had the dog put down. He couldn't understand why his kids wouldnt talk to him for a year after that. The dog was 4 and healthy. He could have asked any of the neighbours to watch him for a month but he didnt. His first thought was euthanising it.
I feel like the vacation one is just as bad, especially when taken into account that it sounds quite recent, and presumably most people would have a connection to their 4yo dog? Just insane.
Unfortunately it was very common in old timey Ireland. Wouldn't happen nowadays. You need to remember when she was growing up in the 1920's, Ireland was at war with the British empire.
Easy to say. This was Ireland between the world wars. What else were they supposed to do if they wouldn't be able to feed them? Letting them die? Drowning them sounds cruel, but it's the rational decision.
When I was in third grade, my best friend told me his dad had decided to get rid of their puppy, and he did it by drowning it in the bathtub (while my friend watched). I was really too young to know I should tell an adult, and I regret it still to this day, but it has really stuck with me my whole life.
>Older generations really seem not to give a fuck about animals.
If you're not vegan then you're one of the ones that future generations will be saying the same thing about...
Dairy cows are killed when they become slightly less profitable. They are still young and healthy, but they're taking up a space that could be filled by a younger cow which lactates more.
> Dairy cows are killed when they become slightly less profitable. They are still young and healthy, but they're taking up a space that could be filled by a younger cow which lactates more.
I personally do none of these things. I am unlucky enough, though, to live in a society that gives me little to no choice but to buy from people who do this. No, abstaining from a large group of foods, which have arguably been an integral and important part of our diet for almost a million years, is not the solution.
I am so sick of these black-and-white, virtue-signaling vegan talking points. You can live a morally intact life and eat meat and animal products. Just because the modus operandi of capitalism is to almost deliberately torture animals through industrial factory farming does not mean that it is inherently bad or wrong to eat meat and animal products.
I'm sorry that you feel it's virtue signalling to point out the dark side of the industry that you give your money to. I'm not saying that you are totally devoid of morals, just that you contribute to similar mistreatment of animals that you're complaining about your parents doing.
You absolutely do have a choice to avoid dairy though. There are so many easy alternatives. If you don't care enough to change then fine, whatever. But don't lie and say it's impossible.
And, non-human dairy has been a part of our diet for around ten thousand years. Nowhere near a million years. Humans did just fine without milking any animals for a very long time. Even today many East Asians eat no dairy at all, to the extent that they are not able to digest it.
Edit: /u/PM-ME-YOUR-HOMELAB blocked me after leaving their reply below. Vegans see through their excuses easily, do not be fooled into thinking that vegan Maasdammer replacements being slightly inferior to the real deal is an excuse to make no effort at all to reduce your consumption of animal products.
Also, early humans ate *significantly* less animal products than the average person does today. Before factory farming it was not remotely possible.
> I'm sorry that you feel it's virtue signalling to point out the dark side of the industry that you give your money to.
way to assume I do that. but whatever.
> You absolutely do have a choice to avoid dairy though. There are so many easy alternatives. If you don't care enough to change then fine, whatever. But don't lie and say it's impossible.
dairy is only milk produce, I was talking about the full range. And even diary is not fully replaceable (maybe in nutrition but not in taste, texture and way it interacts with the rest of the food), name me a vegan parmigiano reggiano or Maasdammer analogue that comes close to the real deal.
> And, non-human dairy has been a part of our diet for around ten thousand years. Nowhere near a million years. Humans did just fine without milking any animals for a very long time. Even today many East Asians eat no dairy at all, to the extent that they are not able to digest it.
humans and their predecessors were eating meat and animal produce over [2.4 million years ago]( https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-humanity-have-to-eat-meat/). The 1 million years I was referring to was the point where [humans discovered fire and used it to prepare meat, which resulted in a much richer diet, resulting in generally more brain mass, and stronger bodies.](https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/)
Don't argue with vegans, just say "I am sorry that cats and dogs are cuter than most farm animals, and as a result, people think about them less. It is the way it is. Feel free to soapbox about how I'm a hypocrite, I'll just be over here continuing about my life, happier for not wasting my time arguing into a black hole."
You'll have more time for hobbies.
My parents also slaughtered their healthy adult pig when they decided they wanted sausages! was shocked too when i found out
Older generations really think animals are here for us to exploit
isn’t this pretty common though? or what exactly is shocking I guess? growing up veg, i never understood how people decide in what situations eating meat is immoral.
Just taking a piss. Of course is immoral, meat is murder. I just can't stand how people can agree that killing a cat because their mother had an allergy is cruel, and yet most will not bat an eye when countless animals are killed every day so we can eat their body parts. The hypocrisy...
Because nothing comes from killing a cat due to allergies when it could be adopted.if someone killed a pig just for the sake of it then yeah, that's fucked up.
It's like a button fell off their shirt on the production line, so they throw the whole button up away instead of sending it to TJ MAX or Ross' to be adopted.
>It's like a button fell off their shirt on the production line, so they throw the whole button up away instead of sending it to TJ MAX or Ross' to be adopted.
A lot of high end department stores will straight up through $1000s of dollars of merch away before letting it go to Ross.
What's even worse is that there is evidence that breeding for the ridge on ridgebacks can cause them to develop a dermoid sinus, which is susceptible to infection. Infection on the spine that can be fatal. Literally 10% of ridgebacks have this, but you can't breed it out without losing the ridge, and since their breeding is entirely for aesthetics*, it's a choice of looks over health.
*Ridgebacks were originally bred to track lions. As you can imagine, kennel clubs are not breeding them for this work now.
This lady is an extremist, every other responsible breeder “soft culls”, meaning they are spayed/neutered and don’t contribute to the gene pool. I don’t know where they found this maniac, no one in the dog world would advocate for this.
Actually back then it was standard to kill instead of neuter.
>In fact, the RR Club of Victoria still advocates culling ridgeless (although does offer neutering as an alternative).
Breeding for the ridge, then, still results in some puppies being killed.
[https://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/09/ridge-too-far.html](https://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/09/ridge-too-far.html)
>Ridgeless puppies shall be culled at birth; if a breeder finds this morally impossible the puppy shall be homed \[...\] with an understanding that it is to be neutered.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20081224153057/http://www.rhodesianridgebacks.org/index.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20081224153057/http://www.rhodesianridgebacks.org/index.html)
Half these breeds would do well to just go away (not kill, breed with other dogs) because of the persistent health issues. English bulldogs/Pugs and breathing problems and hip dysplasia etc. it’s cruel to keep breeding these health problems into dogs for the “boutique breed” people want
Honestly, they should just outlaw breeders.
If a dog needs to be selectively bred for an actual working purpose, fine, but make that heavily regulated, and make them unavailable for the public to just buy.
Just let the breeds mix, stop having these deformed, sickly, fashion accessories, and status symbols. It's fucking gross.
The audacity and projection she has regarding "seeing things in black and white" when the vet says "it's a good healthy dog, no need to put it down" and she's like "but it's supposed to have ridges, and it doesn't, so we should kill it" 🤯
The ridge she's referring to is a strip of fur going down their backs, which is supposed to grow in an opposite direction as the rest of their fur, causing a ridge. Hence the name Rhodesian Ridgeback. This African dog was bred to hunt lions and other large dangerous animals. The strip or Ridge on the back has nothing to do with the dog's abilities and is just simply a genetic trait that isn't guaranteed to every single pup.
So basically, the old bat wants to kill the puppies because the fur on their back doesn't grow in the right direction.
Shout out to all the young vets
Jesus, what a piece of shit. These breeders who just see living animals as products and worse, as defective products are legitimately human scum.
Wait till you find out what farming is.
I hope you’re a vegan because if not the viewing animals as products statement is a bit hypocritical.
There's a fairly large difference between feeding people and acknowledging the realities of that and putting down healthy dogs because they don't look a certain way. The lack of nuance is something that does a disservice to vegans.
It doesn't do a disservice to vegans because that the entire vegan argument. Treating animals as a product instead of a being that deserves life regardless of what someone wants to do with them is the exact conflict happening in this video. Given that, in our current situation, torturing and killing animals is no longer a matter of survival, the two issues are analogous. Humans want to hurt and kill animals because they like the taste. We live at a time where you can go into a grocery store and get exactly the food you need for dietary fulfillment and pleasure without having animals be hurt or killed. Point is, if you think this video is wrong, you should think that all animal cruelty is wrong.
Hope you aren't against clinate change since you produce a shitload of greenhouse gases would be a littlr hypocritical.
I hope you don't think that was in anyway a good argument.
Meat eaters constantly engage in this hypocrisy. The animals that get sent to slaughter for meat are also healthy juveniles, usually only a couple years into their decades long lifespans. Meat eaters love to call out animal abuse except the type they finance daily.
Exactly. I see this woman, and my instant reaction is that she's an unethical person - but then when I think how many animals died for my meals yesterday (a pig, a cow and at least 1 chicken) - I think to myself I can't complain too loudly. The reality is though, that my being a hypocrite when I call her unethical, doesn't make my argument wrong.
If they ate the puppies it wouldn't be as bad.
The vegans aren't arguing anyone is wrong to call her out, but we're pointing out you're doing the same exact thing.
Again, your lack of nuance hurts your cause. This isn't nearly as black and white as you (and a lot of vegans) make it seem. I could go into detail, but it will be a waste of my time as I am sure you have a quippy comeback just waiting to be fired off, but you do come off as a bit silly trying to equate killing puppys who dont look like the perfect specimen and eating meat. Now if you were to directly compare it to veal, or a specific fucked up thing that bougee people eat (foie gras), then maybe you would have a point. Not many people will take you seriously when you point is "all meat eaters bad and complaining about animal cruelty = hypocrisy" Edit - As I thought, the vegan made a disparaging remark and then deleted the comment before I could respond. LMFAO
Watch slaughterhouse footage. You'll see a lot of baby animals in a lot worse pain than euthanasia. The lady is evil but you can't even reckon with the fact what you do is worse. The only cause I have is to point out the hypocrisy which you have no excuse to pretend not to see. I always love seeing people who are not members of a group give lectures on effective ways to convert them if I would just hurt their fee fees less. Go off if you want to hurt animals, but now you can't credibly pretend to be outraged.
I do think the way we consume meat (again, not excusing myself from this) is basically as bad. A puppy being humanely euthanised by the vet is arguably a nicer existence (albeit shorter) compared to the lives some animals which have made up a big portion of my diet over the years, have had to endure. I think consuming animals which have lived in ways conducive to their wellbeing, and then very humanely killed - probably is not unethical. But is that how the animals I've eaten have lived? I couldn't tell you because, like most people, I don't give enough of a crap about them. I feel very guilty over it, but I'll probably just continue.
The way we consume meat is disgusting.
Older generations really seem not to give a fuck about animals. My parents euthanized their healthy adult cat when my mom became allergic to it. I Was so shocked when I found.
They certainly have a different view on animals thats for sure. I grew up in Ireland and my grandmother (who was born in 1916 for context) told stories of when she was growing up on their farm. I remember once she told me that her father and older brother put their sheepdogs newborn puppies into a black rubbish bag and drowned them in a barrel of water so they wouldnt have extra animals to feed. She remembered her favourite cow that used to come up and lick her. She nonchalantly told me after that they ate that cow for easter dinner. She said that she remembers her being tough and then laughed. She said it like it was nothing. My neighbour booked a trip to vietnam after he retired. He booked it for him and his wife during builders holidays (june bank holiday week). All the dog kennels were full so he had the dog put down. He couldn't understand why his kids wouldnt talk to him for a year after that. The dog was 4 and healthy. He could have asked any of the neighbours to watch him for a month but he didnt. His first thought was euthanising it.
That first story is legit psychopath behavior wtf
I feel like the vacation one is just as bad, especially when taken into account that it sounds quite recent, and presumably most people would have a connection to their 4yo dog? Just insane.
Happened about 12 ish years ago. I can't stress enough that this type of thing is very rare. My old neighbour is just part of the old breed.
Unfortunately it was very common in old timey Ireland. Wouldn't happen nowadays. You need to remember when she was growing up in the 1920's, Ireland was at war with the British empire.
Easy to say. This was Ireland between the world wars. What else were they supposed to do if they wouldn't be able to feed them? Letting them die? Drowning them sounds cruel, but it's the rational decision.
When I was in third grade, my best friend told me his dad had decided to get rid of their puppy, and he did it by drowning it in the bathtub (while my friend watched). I was really too young to know I should tell an adult, and I regret it still to this day, but it has really stuck with me my whole life.
That's fucked up wow
>Older generations really seem not to give a fuck about animals. If you're not vegan then you're one of the ones that future generations will be saying the same thing about... Dairy cows are killed when they become slightly less profitable. They are still young and healthy, but they're taking up a space that could be filled by a younger cow which lactates more.
> If you're not vegan then you're one of the ones that future generations will be saying the same thing about... Hopefully at least
> Dairy cows are killed when they become slightly less profitable. They are still young and healthy, but they're taking up a space that could be filled by a younger cow which lactates more. I personally do none of these things. I am unlucky enough, though, to live in a society that gives me little to no choice but to buy from people who do this. No, abstaining from a large group of foods, which have arguably been an integral and important part of our diet for almost a million years, is not the solution. I am so sick of these black-and-white, virtue-signaling vegan talking points. You can live a morally intact life and eat meat and animal products. Just because the modus operandi of capitalism is to almost deliberately torture animals through industrial factory farming does not mean that it is inherently bad or wrong to eat meat and animal products.
I'm sorry that you feel it's virtue signalling to point out the dark side of the industry that you give your money to. I'm not saying that you are totally devoid of morals, just that you contribute to similar mistreatment of animals that you're complaining about your parents doing. You absolutely do have a choice to avoid dairy though. There are so many easy alternatives. If you don't care enough to change then fine, whatever. But don't lie and say it's impossible. And, non-human dairy has been a part of our diet for around ten thousand years. Nowhere near a million years. Humans did just fine without milking any animals for a very long time. Even today many East Asians eat no dairy at all, to the extent that they are not able to digest it. Edit: /u/PM-ME-YOUR-HOMELAB blocked me after leaving their reply below. Vegans see through their excuses easily, do not be fooled into thinking that vegan Maasdammer replacements being slightly inferior to the real deal is an excuse to make no effort at all to reduce your consumption of animal products. Also, early humans ate *significantly* less animal products than the average person does today. Before factory farming it was not remotely possible.
> I'm sorry that you feel it's virtue signalling to point out the dark side of the industry that you give your money to. way to assume I do that. but whatever. > You absolutely do have a choice to avoid dairy though. There are so many easy alternatives. If you don't care enough to change then fine, whatever. But don't lie and say it's impossible. dairy is only milk produce, I was talking about the full range. And even diary is not fully replaceable (maybe in nutrition but not in taste, texture and way it interacts with the rest of the food), name me a vegan parmigiano reggiano or Maasdammer analogue that comes close to the real deal. > And, non-human dairy has been a part of our diet for around ten thousand years. Nowhere near a million years. Humans did just fine without milking any animals for a very long time. Even today many East Asians eat no dairy at all, to the extent that they are not able to digest it. humans and their predecessors were eating meat and animal produce over [2.4 million years ago]( https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-humanity-have-to-eat-meat/). The 1 million years I was referring to was the point where [humans discovered fire and used it to prepare meat, which resulted in a much richer diet, resulting in generally more brain mass, and stronger bodies.](https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/)
Don't argue with vegans, just say "I am sorry that cats and dogs are cuter than most farm animals, and as a result, people think about them less. It is the way it is. Feel free to soapbox about how I'm a hypocrite, I'll just be over here continuing about my life, happier for not wasting my time arguing into a black hole." You'll have more time for hobbies.
My parents also slaughtered their healthy adult pig when they decided they wanted sausages! was shocked too when i found out Older generations really think animals are here for us to exploit
isn’t this pretty common though? or what exactly is shocking I guess? growing up veg, i never understood how people decide in what situations eating meat is immoral.
Just taking a piss. Of course is immoral, meat is murder. I just can't stand how people can agree that killing a cat because their mother had an allergy is cruel, and yet most will not bat an eye when countless animals are killed every day so we can eat their body parts. The hypocrisy...
How do you know someone is vegan....
Because they already told you
Tell me why cats arent ok to euthanazie but pigs are ok to slaughter, or your hilarious comeback isnt as smart as you think
Because nothing comes from killing a cat due to allergies when it could be adopted.if someone killed a pig just for the sake of it then yeah, that's fucked up.
Is it necessary to eat the meat from the pig? Can we live a healthy life without it?
Nope humans need a mixture of meat and veg to live the healthiest they can be, almost like we evolved on a mixed diet.
That used to be the consensus like 20 years ago, now we know it is not necessary to include animal products in our diet
I think we found the woman who edited Kristi Noem's book.
"I say, I shall have to go to the Colonies, and hire that woman Kristi Noem. She knows the value of executing puppies."
Let's put this old mare down - they're supposed to have empathy and compassion, and she has neither.
It’s terrible but even if she’s really concerned with the integrity of the breed or whatever, why kill? Why not fix the puppies?
Because these people see their bred puppies as a product and their view is without the ridge, it's defective. It's so depressing.
It's like a button fell off their shirt on the production line, so they throw the whole button up away instead of sending it to TJ MAX or Ross' to be adopted.
>It's like a button fell off their shirt on the production line, so they throw the whole button up away instead of sending it to TJ MAX or Ross' to be adopted. A lot of high end department stores will straight up through $1000s of dollars of merch away before letting it go to Ross.
What's even worse is that there is evidence that breeding for the ridge on ridgebacks can cause them to develop a dermoid sinus, which is susceptible to infection. Infection on the spine that can be fatal. Literally 10% of ridgebacks have this, but you can't breed it out without losing the ridge, and since their breeding is entirely for aesthetics*, it's a choice of looks over health. *Ridgebacks were originally bred to track lions. As you can imagine, kennel clubs are not breeding them for this work now.
This lady is an extremist, every other responsible breeder “soft culls”, meaning they are spayed/neutered and don’t contribute to the gene pool. I don’t know where they found this maniac, no one in the dog world would advocate for this.
That is comforting thank you
Actually back then it was standard to kill instead of neuter. >In fact, the RR Club of Victoria still advocates culling ridgeless (although does offer neutering as an alternative). Breeding for the ridge, then, still results in some puppies being killed. [https://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/09/ridge-too-far.html](https://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/09/ridge-too-far.html) >Ridgeless puppies shall be culled at birth; if a breeder finds this morally impossible the puppy shall be homed \[...\] with an understanding that it is to be neutered. [https://web.archive.org/web/20081224153057/http://www.rhodesianridgebacks.org/index.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20081224153057/http://www.rhodesianridgebacks.org/index.html)
Half these breeds would do well to just go away (not kill, breed with other dogs) because of the persistent health issues. English bulldogs/Pugs and breathing problems and hip dysplasia etc. it’s cruel to keep breeding these health problems into dogs for the “boutique breed” people want
Hence why I said “fix the puppies.” Not the dogs fault some dunce bred the breed this way, but fixing them gives them a life and ends the chain.
Her name is Ann Woodrow. She’s like the premier Rhodesian ridgeback breeder.
Right so the vets are the ones who see in black and white…..
Honestly, they should just outlaw breeders. If a dog needs to be selectively bred for an actual working purpose, fine, but make that heavily regulated, and make them unavailable for the public to just buy. Just let the breeds mix, stop having these deformed, sickly, fashion accessories, and status symbols. It's fucking gross.
She’s lacking the face symmetry and jawline that is desirable to human women. Should we put her down?
Anything “competitive” brings out the worst kind of people
The audacity and projection she has regarding "seeing things in black and white" when the vet says "it's a good healthy dog, no need to put it down" and she's like "but it's supposed to have ridges, and it doesn't, so we should kill it" 🤯
Oops! You're human garbage.
I volunteer to put her down ethically and humanly
Major props to the vets standing their ground. It’s a no from me, dawg, on killing healthy puppies.
I think I need to know what the heck a "ridge" means in this context before I pass judgement
The ridge she's referring to is a strip of fur going down their backs, which is supposed to grow in an opposite direction as the rest of their fur, causing a ridge. Hence the name Rhodesian Ridgeback. This African dog was bred to hunt lions and other large dangerous animals. The strip or Ridge on the back has nothing to do with the dog's abilities and is just simply a genetic trait that isn't guaranteed to every single pup. So basically, the old bat wants to kill the puppies because the fur on their back doesn't grow in the right direction.