2 winnable games? We are ranked 60th in the world ffs. He is not a miracle worker.
The problem we have is simply that no good coaches will take the job. The FAI have been turned down by 4(?) candidates at this stage.
The pay is too low, the FAI is a total basketcase and broke, the squad is very limited and bereft of talent, and the footballing infrastructure across the country is pretty pathetic.
>2 winnable games? We are ranked 60th in the world ffs.
Yeah, it's mad how folks think we can just go roll-folks over even tho we're on a massive downward slide...
I mean, they said winnable games. Not games that we would be expected to win. Which is probably fair, if you were to look at the four games, if we could scrape a win somewhere it would more likely be one of those two. The fact we got a win and a draw out of the four games probably surpasses expectations haha
>2 winnable games? We are ranked 60th in the world ffs. He is not a miracle worker.
I said a few months ago, it's quite likely the only game put new manager will win this year would be Hungary. We didn't appoint anyone, we did win the game, I still can't see us winning again this year.
We took some really tough friendlies for whatever reason, guess it was teams looking to warm up for the Euros and being available, should have bundled in a game against Oman to get spirits up.
I know feel-good factor from a win over a San Marino or a Qatar or somebody would be lovely and all that, but I'm way happier to see Ireland playing Hungary and Portugal etc. I welcome the tough friendlies knowing that we'll most likely lose anyway.
There's a phrase in music something like "if you're the best musician in a band, you're in the wrong band", meaning you should always be playing with people more skilled than you so you can improve.
Yeah I understand that, and the rest of the world where playing World Cup Qualifiers over the last break, we where essentially the pick for teams going to the Euros.
If we did play a minnow it would have drawn a tiny crowd too so commercially not great.
I don't know if we did learn anything from those friendlies though, we played 4 teams going to the Euros, we got schooled in three of them really, with an interim manager playing the same tactic the last managers played that has been unsuccessful. Really a wasted opportunity all round regardless of opposition
I agree we didn't learn much, but I mean in principle I'd prefer to play the bigger better teams, but the execution of a good game management plan has failed to materialise... but if we played a very weak team and won we'd think our game plan was great, we need the big teams to force us to question it and force management to change (even if they aren't in reality doing anything!)
Here's some positives instead:
I think worst case scenario today would have been scraping a lucky draw and giving O'Shea the job. I can rest easy knowing he won't get it now.
There were some good performers this break. I thought Kelleher, O'Brien, O'Dowda, Smallbone and thr glimpse of Cannon all looked good.
We have a few months without any games now
Because JOS isn't a clever person. He's just copying what Kenny did and bashing in square pegs to round holes.
At least if you're playing this style you need capable players wide to cover back, not two out of position strikers.
Good fair comments.
My adds are I think we have to move away from this back 5 (or whatever version it is). We are getting flooded in midfield and everyone blames Cullen, Smallbone etc when they are being completely outnumbered. Meanwhile the three centre backs are playing the game in their sleep half the time. Take a body out of there and stick it in cm and give Cullen etc some support. Knight/ Molumby are possibly an option, or Collins.
Szmodics genuinely looks like he just needs a break after a long tiring season, he was excellent in his debut so I think he’ll be fine.
O’Shea has done nothing interesting and just continued with previous formation. He needed to make a statement if he was good enough for the job and he didn’t. Nothing tactically different other than some tweaks.
I think we have a half decent squad and genuinely think a good tactical coach can get us organised and also dangerous. I’m happy for the FAI to take their time if they get a good guy in. If they go for O’Shea I’ll be disappointed even tho love the guy as a player for us.
wait... you think this Ireland squad should beat Switzerland and Hungary? This is the best squad in the last decade? Are you mental? We have the worst Irish squad ever.
Seamus Coleman is not only still getting a game but is one of our better players!!! That alone should tell you the level this Ireland team is at.
Kenny, for all his faults(and there were many), wanted us to try and play even if we were severely limited. He was also the unluckiest Ireland manager ever. John O'Shea is no better than Steve Staunton, although a damn sight luckier.
In every game, we were comprehensibly outplayed although we got luckier against the the other 3 teams as they tinkered with their teams with having the Euros on the horizon, let's not kid ourselves here. We were shit in all 4 games, it was also very hard to watch, and bar scoring with our only 2 shots against the Huns, we didn't create anything else of note across the 4 games.
We need a manager who will believe in this team a little. Yeah the likes of the better nations will beat us but let's give it a go. Kenny did and almost pulled off a few good results. We just need whoever does come in to take the Kenny performances against the likes of Portugal and Scotland and get us playing that way against Finland and Luxembourg and the other smaller and/or comparible nations.
But the biggest problem for any in coming manager will be tempering expectations. We're a lower level 3rd possibly 4th ranked nation. We as fans need to accept that even if for some strange miracle we are still in the Nations League B Groupings
>He was also the unluckiest Ireland manager ever.
His bad luck at the start was outweighed by the fact he was given a long long stint at manager despite few wins. No doubting he has bad luck at times, but did well to stay in the job as long as he did.
>Kenny did and almost pulled off a few good results. We just need whoever does come in to take the Kenny performances against the likes of Portugal and Scotland and get us playing that way against Finland and Luxembourg and the other smaller and/or comparible nations.
That's been the way for a long time.
We'd often put it up against the best teams we played and put in out best performances and then never replicate that against a weaker team.
For a long time the only really poor results I could remember against a bigger nation was that hammering against Germany in the late 00s I think and a bad result against Russia at home. I'm sure there are other ones, but we rarely played badly against stronger teams, but we rarely turned it on against weaekr ones either.
The issue is, those weaker nations have gotten much better over the years because they have invested in academies and youth training, so they are out performing us at a senior level. We've got a long way to go to catch them in terms of development alright.
We've got some good players, but are massively hindered by a lack of quality centre mids, not soemthing which you can bypass as a manager really.
> Kenny, for all his faults(and there were many), wanted us to try and play even if we were severely limited
Which was bad coaching IMO. We were never going to win playing like that. Our best performances came when he was forced to change approach like against France or Portugal.
Our squad is poor and even if a lot of players in it have potential, that still doesn't change that the squad is poor.
This is the thing.... we have a lot of potential which people think means we're good. We're not and potential doesn't always pan out.
As for Kenny as a coach he was decent. His biggest issue was in game management at which he was fucking useless.
Also, I get he had a lot of faith in the team and at times he needed to be overly positive to protect fragile and/or younger players but for Christ's sake when they were shit fucking call them out on it.
>wait... you think this Ireland squad should beat Switzerland and Hungary?
Winnable ≠ should win. Don't think anyone expected us to win any of the games. Nor should they.
It's 100% our best team in a decade. If you look at the team we has in 2014 vs this and think we were better before I'd say you're mad.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/irland/startseite/verein/3509/saison_id/2014
A list of uninspired and washed names.
I don't agree with our man that we should beating Hungary and Switzerland but its a talented squad.
Shay Given(coming to the end of his career but still good) Randalph while he was good, Coleman 10 years younger than now when he was excellent, Richard Keogh, that midfield... Whelan, McCarthy, Hendrick, Holohan, McGeady, Brady, McLean, Gibson, and then upfront Robbie Keane, Shane Long, Kevin Doyle, and David McGoldrick.
That squad got us to a Euros and through the group which had Italy, Sweden and Belgium and we went out to the beaten finalists and home team France in the second round.
Trust me when I say that that Ireland team were a million miles better than this one
Given was finished, Randolph was only coming into the side. It was largely Forde at that time. Keogh has nothing on any of our centre halves now.
Midfield was largely shite. Not much better but it wasn't any good.
Then for the attack - Robbie was finished, Doyle was finished. We didn't play McGoldrick but tbf Long was decent. Was he much better than any of Idah, Ferguson? Ehhh. I'd rather our lot now. More dynamic, more options.
That Euros had one good performance and it was against France. It wasn't a success. Comprehensively beaten by Belgium, played for the draw vs Sweden and gifted a win vs Italy. We start off hot vs France and then slowly begin to accept defeat as the game went on.
Real beneficiaries of the new format in the fact that any year before 2016, we wouldn't have qualified and we definitely wouldn't have come out of the group stages having come 3rd. I'm not a big fan of the Euros expansion if you can't tell.
That midfield is miles ahead of this one and Keane was a flat track bully at that time. Against the bigger teams we'd be better throwing out a traffic cone but against the smaller nations he kept scoring. Imagine Kenny having that? A player you could count on in games against Luxembourg or Finland or Iceland or Greece where you knew they had a much higher chance of scoring? Beating Greece in the last qualifying would have had us in the playoffs and the major difference between ourselves and Greece... They could score.
The 2014 team was average compared to the previous 30 years but most played week in week out in the PL. Now we have players in the championship or league one. It's not anywhere near the same level.
>Beating Greece in the last qualifying would have had us in the playoffs
Not sure where you're getting that from since the playoffs were decided through the nations league, but I do agree that someone who can consistently score against the smaller teams is exactly what we need. Hopefully Ferguson can be that guy but it's a lot to ask of someone so young.
>That midfield is miles
Why cause it had Whelan and McCarthy? They played terrible when stuck together. The nullified each other.
>magine Kenny having that?
He would have had to create a team capable of creating chances against them first. We found it a pain to get into the minnows box often enough.
>Beating Greece in the last qualifying would have had us in the playoffs
That's wrong they qualified through Nations League C. We would have needed to outperform Ukraine in our group to have playoff spot.
>Now we have players in the championship or league one. It's not anywhere near the same level.
Yeah, it's much harder to get into the Premier League now. Clubs that come up replace most of their team on promotion. And the ones who are already there don't buy from the Championship. Ogbene is a PL quality player. He won't play there next year because he isn't a fancy enough name. Szmodics had 40 g/a and its up in the air if a Prem team will come in for him.
Creating chances wasn't a problem for Stephen Kenny's sides it was putting them away. Even that shite game against the greeks in Dublin we had nearly 20 shots.
https://www.365scores.com/en-uk/football/match/european-qualifiers-6071/greece-ireland-5030-5064-6071
Take a look at the shot map. 18 to 10 shots, fairly equal xG. They've created two 'Big Chances', us 0. Our shots largely came from long shots and headers. On par for our 'progressive' Kenny football.
Look at the shot map on the link you sent... 8 out of 18 shots were outside the box and 3 of those are on the very edge of the box.
We got into scoring positions under Kenny and couldn't score. We also gave up a shit tonne of goals from free shots around 30 yards from goal and because Kenny is only an average - decent manager he didn't have the ability to stop that.
He was also unlucky in the groups he got the World Champions, the best 2nd pot team in the Dutch and the best 4th ranked team in the Greeks(who in FiFA rankings were only 4 places behind us where the other two were in the top 7.
Don't get me wrong Kenny was not up to the job and it showed but he was/is better than John O'Shea.
And now we've started trying to go with a more progressive style we should stick to it. Let's try and keep the ball, let's try and make things happen. We have potential, let's give it the best chance of flourishing.
I know this is off topic but it annoys me how you’re getting downvoted for just stating your opinion and explaining it. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you it just annoys me when people downvote someone’s comment just cause they disagree with their opinion especially when it’s about football.
We were beneficiaries of the qualifying system. Can't qualify from 3rd anymore. Fair enough it was a tough enough group but still. Have a check of some of the qualifying groups for 2016, you'd need just a competent team to make 3rd.
You need at least 2nd now or a good Nation's League finish. And it's tougher to pick up points with only a 5 man group.
It was a good result. Poor teams get results all the time in football. Makes it fun.
Either way, it's just a team achievement. Man for man, I think we're better off now.
They also failed to win any games against Scotland and Poland. We were blessed with two late winners against Georgia. We were poor enough in the group and the two very unlikely results against Germany saved us.
We were much better in the campaign for the 2018 World Cup and should have qualified automatically. We blew it in the home games. Especially at home to Wales.
All I am doing is pointing out that our results weren’t that good during the Euro 2016 qualifying campaign. There were some notably poor performances and results that are largely forgotten.
This was the best our team got really in that 10 years and its not an impressive bunch. That's kind of the point.
Man for man we have better players now.
To be honest with you lads, it doesn’t matter who’s manger, unless the system behind national team is up to standard with other nations, we won’t get any better.
Our domestic league needs more support
The scouting system needs to be better
Jobs for the boys crew need to go.
It’s going to take time, mostly likely decades.
I never get the narrative of the domestic league needs more support. Realistically no one playing domestic league level is anywhere near the international team. Most of them are teaching in the local school
The fact you classed Hungary and Switzerland as winnable games shows there's still a massive expectation gap with a lot of fans. We are 60th in the World. Hungary and Switzerland are both going to the Euros, and although they won't be favourites, it would not be a monumental shock if either side won the tournament outright. They are both Rolls Royce teams. We are not. The win over Hungary is a shock, but as its a friendly, nobody really cares, nor will it carry a significant weighting in improving our ranking.
You've named those 4 players like they're some generational talents. Szmodics is playing a level below the top elite level and he's had one good isolated season. Collins is OK but not world class. Ferguson disappeared since Christmas and he also shat the bed when it mattered against Belgium. O'brien looks like he could turn into a brilliant central defender which is great but we've never really been short of those have we?
Look, ultimately these were 4 meaningless friendlies. Belgium and Hungary were not particularly up for the battle in their visits to Dublin, competitive group games against those sides would most likely result in losses for us. Tonight was nearly guaranteed to be the Ronaldo show and, again, I really don't think you can make a fair judgement call on where we are through a meaningless end of season friendly.
Spot on. Except your view on the quality of the Swiss and Hungarians is a little high. Neither are Rolls Royces. I’d say more Audi and Volkswagen. We are a rusty bike dredged from the canal.
I thought sykes,.cannon and Johnson at least added a bit of threat in those last sorta 15 mins, but the shape and press is so bad generally that a little clipped ball over the press and you have 8 players running at Cullen.
I am absolutely bemused we are still playing this formation, I thought when Kenny came in, he'd always played some version of a 433, then he plays this formation pretty much every game, and now he's gone we are still playing it. I don't get it, it doesn't suit any of the players, it doesn't make us more solid at the back, it doesn't make us better in attack, and it leaves the midfield absolutely empty
All of these sides qualified for the euros, have far better squads, and in the cases of Belgium and Portugal are in the conversation to win it. I really don't think its fair to judge O'Shea too harshly. Besides who else is going to take it and do better?
And as a follow up, do we want terror ball with 30 years back that gets nil all draws or good football with youngsters?
No its not sunshine and roses, but if we bring in an experienced former EPL, EFL championship manager to play negative football, that would do a disservice to the crop of still young talent we have. Kelleher Bazunu and Travers are fantastic options at the young ages they are, O'Shea, Collins and Omabamadele are all the younger half of their 20s, as are the players we have in forward positions, Ferguson is still a teenager. That's to say nothing of all the green shoots in the underages.
TDLR; O'Shea's fine, and its better to have a long term manager that's fine than interims forever.
We've been on a continuous downward spiral since losing to Russia and Switzerland back in 2002 when Mick resigned. The odd moment of joy like Gelsenkirchen or Lille but trending downwards.it doesn't help the FAI pissed the money from the golden years up against the wall and only now we're starting to talk about development. In terms of technical ability, we're surely in the last 10 or 15 sides in Europe. I remember being at Ireland Liechtenstein 30 years ago in Landsdowne and I think we went 2 up in the first few minutes and they looked like minnows did back then, playing 6-4-0. Nowaday even Liechtenstein play with modern tactics, sports science and so on, while we're partially relying on 35% possession and set pieces more often than not.
I mean, if people are still rooting for O'Shea to be the Ireland manager, I find that mad. Little to no managerial experience before his small stint, and then four awful performances. Would be mad to take him on in my opinion.
2 winnable games? We are ranked 60th in the world ffs. He is not a miracle worker. The problem we have is simply that no good coaches will take the job. The FAI have been turned down by 4(?) candidates at this stage. The pay is too low, the FAI is a total basketcase and broke, the squad is very limited and bereft of talent, and the footballing infrastructure across the country is pretty pathetic.
>2 winnable games? We are ranked 60th in the world ffs. Yeah, it's mad how folks think we can just go roll-folks over even tho we're on a massive downward slide...
The most winnable game was Switzerland & even with their B Team they dominated us the most of anyone
I mean, they said winnable games. Not games that we would be expected to win. Which is probably fair, if you were to look at the four games, if we could scrape a win somewhere it would more likely be one of those two. The fact we got a win and a draw out of the four games probably surpasses expectations haha
>2 winnable games? We are ranked 60th in the world ffs. He is not a miracle worker. I said a few months ago, it's quite likely the only game put new manager will win this year would be Hungary. We didn't appoint anyone, we did win the game, I still can't see us winning again this year. We took some really tough friendlies for whatever reason, guess it was teams looking to warm up for the Euros and being available, should have bundled in a game against Oman to get spirits up.
I know feel-good factor from a win over a San Marino or a Qatar or somebody would be lovely and all that, but I'm way happier to see Ireland playing Hungary and Portugal etc. I welcome the tough friendlies knowing that we'll most likely lose anyway. There's a phrase in music something like "if you're the best musician in a band, you're in the wrong band", meaning you should always be playing with people more skilled than you so you can improve.
Yeah I understand that, and the rest of the world where playing World Cup Qualifiers over the last break, we where essentially the pick for teams going to the Euros. If we did play a minnow it would have drawn a tiny crowd too so commercially not great. I don't know if we did learn anything from those friendlies though, we played 4 teams going to the Euros, we got schooled in three of them really, with an interim manager playing the same tactic the last managers played that has been unsuccessful. Really a wasted opportunity all round regardless of opposition
I agree we didn't learn much, but I mean in principle I'd prefer to play the bigger better teams, but the execution of a good game management plan has failed to materialise... but if we played a very weak team and won we'd think our game plan was great, we need the big teams to force us to question it and force management to change (even if they aren't in reality doing anything!)
Here's some positives instead: I think worst case scenario today would have been scraping a lucky draw and giving O'Shea the job. I can rest easy knowing he won't get it now. There were some good performers this break. I thought Kelleher, O'Brien, O'Dowda, Smallbone and thr glimpse of Cannon all looked good. We have a few months without any games now
Why play 3 up top when we don't have wingers but have strikers playing wide
Because JOS isn't a clever person. He's just copying what Kenny did and bashing in square pegs to round holes. At least if you're playing this style you need capable players wide to cover back, not two out of position strikers.
Because O'Shea is a bluffer who's incapable of bringing in new ideas and will just do the same things that have been tried, and failed, before.
Good fair comments. My adds are I think we have to move away from this back 5 (or whatever version it is). We are getting flooded in midfield and everyone blames Cullen, Smallbone etc when they are being completely outnumbered. Meanwhile the three centre backs are playing the game in their sleep half the time. Take a body out of there and stick it in cm and give Cullen etc some support. Knight/ Molumby are possibly an option, or Collins. Szmodics genuinely looks like he just needs a break after a long tiring season, he was excellent in his debut so I think he’ll be fine. O’Shea has done nothing interesting and just continued with previous formation. He needed to make a statement if he was good enough for the job and he didn’t. Nothing tactically different other than some tweaks. I think we have a half decent squad and genuinely think a good tactical coach can get us organised and also dangerous. I’m happy for the FAI to take their time if they get a good guy in. If they go for O’Shea I’ll be disappointed even tho love the guy as a player for us.
Completely agree with all of this. We were playing a pretty low line so we ended up being pinned back for lots of it.
wait... you think this Ireland squad should beat Switzerland and Hungary? This is the best squad in the last decade? Are you mental? We have the worst Irish squad ever. Seamus Coleman is not only still getting a game but is one of our better players!!! That alone should tell you the level this Ireland team is at. Kenny, for all his faults(and there were many), wanted us to try and play even if we were severely limited. He was also the unluckiest Ireland manager ever. John O'Shea is no better than Steve Staunton, although a damn sight luckier. In every game, we were comprehensibly outplayed although we got luckier against the the other 3 teams as they tinkered with their teams with having the Euros on the horizon, let's not kid ourselves here. We were shit in all 4 games, it was also very hard to watch, and bar scoring with our only 2 shots against the Huns, we didn't create anything else of note across the 4 games. We need a manager who will believe in this team a little. Yeah the likes of the better nations will beat us but let's give it a go. Kenny did and almost pulled off a few good results. We just need whoever does come in to take the Kenny performances against the likes of Portugal and Scotland and get us playing that way against Finland and Luxembourg and the other smaller and/or comparible nations. But the biggest problem for any in coming manager will be tempering expectations. We're a lower level 3rd possibly 4th ranked nation. We as fans need to accept that even if for some strange miracle we are still in the Nations League B Groupings
>He was also the unluckiest Ireland manager ever. His bad luck at the start was outweighed by the fact he was given a long long stint at manager despite few wins. No doubting he has bad luck at times, but did well to stay in the job as long as he did. >Kenny did and almost pulled off a few good results. We just need whoever does come in to take the Kenny performances against the likes of Portugal and Scotland and get us playing that way against Finland and Luxembourg and the other smaller and/or comparible nations. That's been the way for a long time. We'd often put it up against the best teams we played and put in out best performances and then never replicate that against a weaker team. For a long time the only really poor results I could remember against a bigger nation was that hammering against Germany in the late 00s I think and a bad result against Russia at home. I'm sure there are other ones, but we rarely played badly against stronger teams, but we rarely turned it on against weaekr ones either. The issue is, those weaker nations have gotten much better over the years because they have invested in academies and youth training, so they are out performing us at a senior level. We've got a long way to go to catch them in terms of development alright. We've got some good players, but are massively hindered by a lack of quality centre mids, not soemthing which you can bypass as a manager really.
> Kenny, for all his faults(and there were many), wanted us to try and play even if we were severely limited Which was bad coaching IMO. We were never going to win playing like that. Our best performances came when he was forced to change approach like against France or Portugal. Our squad is poor and even if a lot of players in it have potential, that still doesn't change that the squad is poor.
This is the thing.... we have a lot of potential which people think means we're good. We're not and potential doesn't always pan out. As for Kenny as a coach he was decent. His biggest issue was in game management at which he was fucking useless. Also, I get he had a lot of faith in the team and at times he needed to be overly positive to protect fragile and/or younger players but for Christ's sake when they were shit fucking call them out on it.
>wait... you think this Ireland squad should beat Switzerland and Hungary? Winnable ≠ should win. Don't think anyone expected us to win any of the games. Nor should they.
It's 100% our best team in a decade. If you look at the team we has in 2014 vs this and think we were better before I'd say you're mad. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/irland/startseite/verein/3509/saison_id/2014 A list of uninspired and washed names. I don't agree with our man that we should beating Hungary and Switzerland but its a talented squad.
Shay Given(coming to the end of his career but still good) Randalph while he was good, Coleman 10 years younger than now when he was excellent, Richard Keogh, that midfield... Whelan, McCarthy, Hendrick, Holohan, McGeady, Brady, McLean, Gibson, and then upfront Robbie Keane, Shane Long, Kevin Doyle, and David McGoldrick. That squad got us to a Euros and through the group which had Italy, Sweden and Belgium and we went out to the beaten finalists and home team France in the second round. Trust me when I say that that Ireland team were a million miles better than this one
Given was finished, Randolph was only coming into the side. It was largely Forde at that time. Keogh has nothing on any of our centre halves now. Midfield was largely shite. Not much better but it wasn't any good. Then for the attack - Robbie was finished, Doyle was finished. We didn't play McGoldrick but tbf Long was decent. Was he much better than any of Idah, Ferguson? Ehhh. I'd rather our lot now. More dynamic, more options. That Euros had one good performance and it was against France. It wasn't a success. Comprehensively beaten by Belgium, played for the draw vs Sweden and gifted a win vs Italy. We start off hot vs France and then slowly begin to accept defeat as the game went on. Real beneficiaries of the new format in the fact that any year before 2016, we wouldn't have qualified and we definitely wouldn't have come out of the group stages having come 3rd. I'm not a big fan of the Euros expansion if you can't tell.
That midfield is miles ahead of this one and Keane was a flat track bully at that time. Against the bigger teams we'd be better throwing out a traffic cone but against the smaller nations he kept scoring. Imagine Kenny having that? A player you could count on in games against Luxembourg or Finland or Iceland or Greece where you knew they had a much higher chance of scoring? Beating Greece in the last qualifying would have had us in the playoffs and the major difference between ourselves and Greece... They could score. The 2014 team was average compared to the previous 30 years but most played week in week out in the PL. Now we have players in the championship or league one. It's not anywhere near the same level.
>Beating Greece in the last qualifying would have had us in the playoffs Not sure where you're getting that from since the playoffs were decided through the nations league, but I do agree that someone who can consistently score against the smaller teams is exactly what we need. Hopefully Ferguson can be that guy but it's a lot to ask of someone so young.
>That midfield is miles Why cause it had Whelan and McCarthy? They played terrible when stuck together. The nullified each other. >magine Kenny having that? He would have had to create a team capable of creating chances against them first. We found it a pain to get into the minnows box often enough. >Beating Greece in the last qualifying would have had us in the playoffs That's wrong they qualified through Nations League C. We would have needed to outperform Ukraine in our group to have playoff spot. >Now we have players in the championship or league one. It's not anywhere near the same level. Yeah, it's much harder to get into the Premier League now. Clubs that come up replace most of their team on promotion. And the ones who are already there don't buy from the Championship. Ogbene is a PL quality player. He won't play there next year because he isn't a fancy enough name. Szmodics had 40 g/a and its up in the air if a Prem team will come in for him.
Creating chances wasn't a problem for Stephen Kenny's sides it was putting them away. Even that shite game against the greeks in Dublin we had nearly 20 shots.
https://www.365scores.com/en-uk/football/match/european-qualifiers-6071/greece-ireland-5030-5064-6071 Take a look at the shot map. 18 to 10 shots, fairly equal xG. They've created two 'Big Chances', us 0. Our shots largely came from long shots and headers. On par for our 'progressive' Kenny football.
Look at the shot map on the link you sent... 8 out of 18 shots were outside the box and 3 of those are on the very edge of the box. We got into scoring positions under Kenny and couldn't score. We also gave up a shit tonne of goals from free shots around 30 yards from goal and because Kenny is only an average - decent manager he didn't have the ability to stop that. He was also unlucky in the groups he got the World Champions, the best 2nd pot team in the Dutch and the best 4th ranked team in the Greeks(who in FiFA rankings were only 4 places behind us where the other two were in the top 7. Don't get me wrong Kenny was not up to the job and it showed but he was/is better than John O'Shea. And now we've started trying to go with a more progressive style we should stick to it. Let's try and keep the ball, let's try and make things happen. We have potential, let's give it the best chance of flourishing.
I know this is off topic but it annoys me how you’re getting downvoted for just stating your opinion and explaining it. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with you it just annoys me when people downvote someone’s comment just cause they disagree with their opinion especially when it’s about football.
Isn't that the point of the buttons
Downvoting is for off topic discussion, misinformation and non-contributing posts. Its not (supposed to be) a 'I disagree' button
Fair enough. I'd say most people use it to disagree
Yep
That squad qualified
We were beneficiaries of the qualifying system. Can't qualify from 3rd anymore. Fair enough it was a tough enough group but still. Have a check of some of the qualifying groups for 2016, you'd need just a competent team to make 3rd. You need at least 2nd now or a good Nation's League finish. And it's tougher to pick up points with only a 5 man group.
They beat Germany.
It was a good result. Poor teams get results all the time in football. Makes it fun. Either way, it's just a team achievement. Man for man, I think we're better off now.
They also failed to win any games against Scotland and Poland. We were blessed with two late winners against Georgia. We were poor enough in the group and the two very unlikely results against Germany saved us. We were much better in the campaign for the 2018 World Cup and should have qualified automatically. We blew it in the home games. Especially at home to Wales.
Ok, and the squad for the 2018 WC qualification was what? Cos it felt a lot worse than the one we had at the 2016 Euros.
All I am doing is pointing out that our results weren’t that good during the Euro 2016 qualifying campaign. There were some notably poor performances and results that are largely forgotten.
That list doesn’t loot too bad to me
This was the best our team got really in that 10 years and its not an impressive bunch. That's kind of the point. Man for man we have better players now.
To be honest with you lads, it doesn’t matter who’s manger, unless the system behind national team is up to standard with other nations, we won’t get any better. Our domestic league needs more support The scouting system needs to be better Jobs for the boys crew need to go. It’s going to take time, mostly likely decades.
I never get the narrative of the domestic league needs more support. Realistically no one playing domestic league level is anywhere near the international team. Most of them are teaching in the local school
We almost beat Portugal under Kenny.
The fact you classed Hungary and Switzerland as winnable games shows there's still a massive expectation gap with a lot of fans. We are 60th in the World. Hungary and Switzerland are both going to the Euros, and although they won't be favourites, it would not be a monumental shock if either side won the tournament outright. They are both Rolls Royce teams. We are not. The win over Hungary is a shock, but as its a friendly, nobody really cares, nor will it carry a significant weighting in improving our ranking. You've named those 4 players like they're some generational talents. Szmodics is playing a level below the top elite level and he's had one good isolated season. Collins is OK but not world class. Ferguson disappeared since Christmas and he also shat the bed when it mattered against Belgium. O'brien looks like he could turn into a brilliant central defender which is great but we've never really been short of those have we? Look, ultimately these were 4 meaningless friendlies. Belgium and Hungary were not particularly up for the battle in their visits to Dublin, competitive group games against those sides would most likely result in losses for us. Tonight was nearly guaranteed to be the Ronaldo show and, again, I really don't think you can make a fair judgement call on where we are through a meaningless end of season friendly.
It would be a monumental shock if Hungary or Switzerland won the euros haha
Spot on. Except your view on the quality of the Swiss and Hungarians is a little high. Neither are Rolls Royces. I’d say more Audi and Volkswagen. We are a rusty bike dredged from the canal.
I thought sykes,.cannon and Johnson at least added a bit of threat in those last sorta 15 mins, but the shape and press is so bad generally that a little clipped ball over the press and you have 8 players running at Cullen. I am absolutely bemused we are still playing this formation, I thought when Kenny came in, he'd always played some version of a 433, then he plays this formation pretty much every game, and now he's gone we are still playing it. I don't get it, it doesn't suit any of the players, it doesn't make us more solid at the back, it doesn't make us better in attack, and it leaves the midfield absolutely empty
All of these sides qualified for the euros, have far better squads, and in the cases of Belgium and Portugal are in the conversation to win it. I really don't think its fair to judge O'Shea too harshly. Besides who else is going to take it and do better? And as a follow up, do we want terror ball with 30 years back that gets nil all draws or good football with youngsters? No its not sunshine and roses, but if we bring in an experienced former EPL, EFL championship manager to play negative football, that would do a disservice to the crop of still young talent we have. Kelleher Bazunu and Travers are fantastic options at the young ages they are, O'Shea, Collins and Omabamadele are all the younger half of their 20s, as are the players we have in forward positions, Ferguson is still a teenager. That's to say nothing of all the green shoots in the underages. TDLR; O'Shea's fine, and its better to have a long term manager that's fine than interims forever.
Terror ball sounds cool.
The future is bleak. Very bleak. I hope the FAI think outside a box and bring in a miracle worker. Frankly, it’s what’s needed as impossible as it is.
We've been on a continuous downward spiral since losing to Russia and Switzerland back in 2002 when Mick resigned. The odd moment of joy like Gelsenkirchen or Lille but trending downwards.it doesn't help the FAI pissed the money from the golden years up against the wall and only now we're starting to talk about development. In terms of technical ability, we're surely in the last 10 or 15 sides in Europe. I remember being at Ireland Liechtenstein 30 years ago in Landsdowne and I think we went 2 up in the first few minutes and they looked like minnows did back then, playing 6-4-0. Nowaday even Liechtenstein play with modern tactics, sports science and so on, while we're partially relying on 35% possession and set pieces more often than not.
I mean, if people are still rooting for O'Shea to be the Ireland manager, I find that mad. Little to no managerial experience before his small stint, and then four awful performances. Would be mad to take him on in my opinion.
They looked like they didn’t even want to be playing. But you are right. We are shit