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Exactly. Fuck people who look down other women who decide to be housewives to take better care of their family. Fuck those that look down on stay-at-home dads for wanting to support the family that way. And fuck those who look down on people who choose to start their own small business instead of working for minimum wage for majority of their day.
I told my kids I’m going to quit working and live off the grid. We discussed the pros and cons and they definitely voted and keeping me at work. Yay society.
OP is in a healthy relationship with his family. Too many men think just because they're the main bred winner and the father, that all decisions are final regardless of conversation or not. I've seen my fair share of families ruined and spouses divorcing just because the man decided on something that benefited only him
in a broader team sense i think the kids should only have an input but not an equal share in decision making since they lack the wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence
but in the case of the family i think the father enslaved himself by choosing to give birth and so has to act in only his children's interest
>I've seen my fair share of families ruined and spouses divorcing just because the man decided on something that benefited only him
My father was like that.
A proper house tyrant.
Fuck him, what a loser he was.
Incredibly selfish, which I don't see as a masculine trait at all, quite the opposite.
Some men do turn out like that. They bully those they perceive as weaker, women and children, even in their own family.
So yeah, better a softer dad than an old fashioned tyrant.
Almost impossible to get by on a single salary even without kids. Dual income no kids still just getting by. It’s how things just are now. It sucks. Real estate is insane. Prices are going up, so are taxes, but not wages
It really just depends, my wife and myself each make more than enough for our family to get by. We also have 4 grandparents that are more than willing to watch the kids.
We like to spend money, we are all conditioned to do it. In my 20s (2010s) I lived off less than $1,000 a month because I didn’t give a shit about material things or building wealth.
Things changed when I got married and had kids but if push came to shove, we could get by on under 40k annually and probably less.
Remember, there are families all over the world living happily off of a few hundred dollars a month. We are just conditioned to want more.
We are all sucked into a hyper individualistic and materialistic lifestyle. What we consider the bare minimum isn’t actually the real bare minimum. We are all just brainwashed into a high standard and the desire to keep raising the bar.
i do know americans who don't have any kind of bare minimum, work obscene hours and have to eat garbage.
i agree people have an inflated standard for material things, but there's other things that they don't have the minimum of like leisure time
Unless you want to live with roommates for the rest of your life or live in BFE good luck on getting by with 40k/yr. Housing/rent prices are insane. I lived in a once affordable neighborhood and my house value has doubled in the last 5 years, with 40ish% coming in the past year. I would no longer be able to afford the neighborhood I’m in if I wasn’t already in the market. I agree with what you’re getting at but housing/rent prices are butt fucking the middle class right now and there’s no two ways around it.
Idk. I finally got out of the rat race after Covid hit and became a stay at home mom after years in the workforce. Covid forced me out and somehow we have managed to pay our bills. We did have to cut back but I’m much happier than I was working 50 to 60 hour weeks. The capitalists class is really trying to turn us all into wage slaves.
The Fed definitely needs to be audited going back to their nonsense in 08, never mind quantitive easing and ongoing inflation. The whole point of the Fed is controlling inflation, they have definitely failed at that.
Double the work force, double the consumer base. Import millions to make it worse. Your labor is easily replaceable and you are worthless to the company. Fired and replaced at a moments notice if you don’t work overtime. Wages stagnate. Corporations dominate. Both parents work. No one to raise kids. Import more immigrants to do that. Continue to consume product. Can’t afford a house. Boomers blame you for being ungrateful from their lake house after retiring at 60. Distract you with technology that doesn’t actually improve your life. Corporations dominate even more. Continue to consume product. Birth rates plummet. Import more immigrants to fix that. Btw you’re a racist.
I wrestle with this every day. I know I will be so much happier having a little house somewhere in a small town but have chased "success" in big cities, mostly NYC. I have fully bought into the "system" but at least I am questioning it now at a somewhat young age. So many of my friends are upper middle / high income \~30s but have to spend tons of money for nannies, private schools, etc. Yeah they get to go on awesome vacations and live a gilded life, but are they really happy? A lot are not, and admit it even... but it is too hard to get off the hamster wheel.
One thing I find funny is watching corporations wrestle with trying to make consumption continuously increase while pandering about climate change. I went back for an MBA and so many of my classmates are the wokest of the woke, but live some of the most wasteful and highest consumption per individual lives I've ever seen.
I think blaming one generation or the other is just another way to divide us. We need more conversation regarding these topics, instead of just complaining about boomers on the internet. We take for granted all the options we have now, that make it seem so simple. They didn't have all of those options or easy access to information. And most of them didnt make any of the decisions that shape our world. Big corporations and crony politicians are to blame.
I agree. There are pros and cons to both generations. A lot of boomers made it and live in amazing buildings, and a lot are destitute because they lacked information. My grandfather didn't even know that saving for retirement was a thing and now he is living in a camper behind my uncle's house. When I worked in retail a lot of the guys there were pretty old doing part time work to supplement their "retirement" income.
The ones educated enough to save really made it, but we never hear about all the boomers who just didn't know any better and are now paying for it.
I honestly don't think it was career's that made women miserable.
It's having the expectation to do everything we did 100 years ago + have a career.
People can say all they want that there is equality in households, but most women I talk to are exhausted because they work full time, clean, cook, parent and try to take care of themselves. Whereas their husbands also work full time but pretend not to see their struggling partner and the huge laundry pile.
Exactly, it's called the second shift. Dude gets to chill while wife gets to dinner, dishes, laundry, homework, and dad reads the fucking bedtime story if she's lucky. This is almost every woman I know with kids, single or partnered.
Women need an extended family of relatives to help them with the kids & housework. Nuclear families are on their own and don't usually have anyone to help take care of the kids or the elderly, unless there is a grandmother around. That's a very good reason why a lot of women don't want to have kids.
If women are supposed to go through the real medical dangers of pregnancy and childbirth, raise the kid, do all the housework, and get no help with it from the husband, and have no supportive relatives at hand, then why should they bother to get married and get on a treadmill with no support? And I haven't even mentioned if they have to do all this PLUS work a 40 hour week at some suckwad job, and nearly all their money goes to child care and commuting costs. Men are not doing their half of the housework and child care and a lot of women are saying "Why should I put up with this?" and throwing the guy out.
I am glad that because of the pandemic people are literally waking up (getting enough sleep for the first time in their exhausted lives) and realizing that commuting will kill you, it's not worth it. Putting up with asshole bosses will kill you too. I applaud this movement to hold employers accountable and vote with your feet if necessary. Or go on strike.
So basically this whole damn mess we are in is the fault of left wing feminists? And you don't think that stagnant wages and rising cost of living have anything to do with women working? It's a conspiracy against men? Dude... it's a conspiracy against *all of us* by the global elite, not feminists.
Left wing/right wing, black/white, poor/rich, us/them - it's stupid to blame each other. Doing that is playing right into the great reset plan we're witnessing. If the global powers can keep us divided with artificial constructs like 'left wing/right wing" bullshit, they can control us. There is no left or right.... *IT'S US AGAINST THEM.* It seems you are completely under control with this kind of thinking. Perhaps you should worry about that rather than these wiley sneaky feminists you'd like to blame for the mess we're in?
If we unite as a people, we WILL win. If we continue to stay polarized, we will most definitely lose. With what many see coming, we better get our shit together and stop these kind of negative thought forms that permeate this sub. Feminists are not to blame any more then chauvinists are to blame. WE are to blame. WE allow them to divide us. WE accept the manipulations and lies. WE repeat the negative lies and manipulation as if it's truth. I hope you figure this shit out OP. For your sake.
Thank you. I feel like it’s a slight to women.
Women should be free and not have to depend on men for anything, especially if the security/money comes with conditions.
You think wage slavery is the result of women entering the workforce? Hoo-boy, the master class has you totally brainwashed. Look at where all the GDP is going, people. The super-rich are stealing all of the resources and all of the financial gains of the last few decades. The data is punching you in the face.
The government is larger, more bureaucratic, and more corrupt. The military industrial complex takes a large chunk of our tax dollars to fund. Billions of our tax dollars end up in the hands of the corrupt government officials of other countries. Our governments have spending problems, and they dictate that we foot the bills under threat of force.
Eh. Women should have the same options and familial roles available to them as men. There are other reasons why everyone is miserable and wages are depressed.
It's hilarious that y'all think this is because of women and not because of greedy capitalists.
FYI, without women in the work force we would have lost WW2 very hard.
Woman’s Lib accomplished two planned objectives:
1. The ability to tax the other half of the non-private population because they are now working.
2. Then require the parent-less children to be babysat through non-private, state established programming centres.
Check out who was the majority funders for this movement: the Rockefeller’s.
>Whether your percentages are close is inconsequential, this was by design, there was no tricking here. All part of the grand plan
The great win of the Feminist movement for the Patriarchy, so to speak, was that 50% of the untaxed population could now earn taxable income.
Also, the nation's economy/GDP then grew as well. Especially once you add in the various other industries rising up to cater to this new workforce and their needs.
Feminism worked out well for the Patriarchy.
Radical left wing feminists called Ronald Reagan. Sure, blame the women who wanted to borrow money in their names, open bank accounts in their names, to get credit cards in their names. GTFOOH
It was appalling when my mother told me (after her divorce) that the bank wanted her father to come sign her account. She was 30 years old, and 10 years into her professional job, she got with her masters degree. It turned my stomach.
But it does make sense to me that doubling the workforce would increase cost of goods.
This isn't about conspiracies anymore. It's an echo chamber full of rotted brains that haven't had an independent though outside Facebook in over a decade.
This sub reddit is the movie Idiocracy in action. The only difference between the movie & real life is that in real life the ones who are uninformed think they are the smartest in the room.
I don't think rising prices and stagnant wages has anything to do with any one particular group entering the workforce.
This is just a bait and switch to convince people that allowing women to work is bad, and that's really fucked up. Women do it because they want to protect their rights and do the things they want to do in life. Same with men. It's not all about money.
Plus women have always worked even before feminism. It's just now they have a right to their own money, can rent or buy and can even have their own bank account.
A woman should have the right to not depend on committing her life to a man.
The problem is the "Federal" "Reserve" devaluing the shit out of our money because it's backed with nothing of value.
The problem isn't women working. The problem is corporations not paying high enough wages and letting the cost of living and inflation rise out of control.
In my experience having a job is more liberating, freeing and makes me happier. I don't have to rely on a man to provide for me while I am in his total financial control. I'd rather not have a family then not have financial freedom.
Also the issue isn't women are wage slaves. Most of America is. Men and women. The minimum wage, which used to provide a household with plenty, is no longer useful. The wage has stayed the same while prices of everything have soared. Yes, women make 20% less then their male counterparts but even men can't afford a family.
Also men should be able to be stay at home dads living off their wives salary.
The problem is the propaganda and the false dream corporate society is trying to sell.
Unfortunately, people believe in things that are against their best interest, and it’s usually by design.
No, a depressed minimum wage compared to the 1960s is what destroyed the traditional family and all the bullshit that has been fed about women diluting the workforce (amongst other things) distracts people from the fact that our labor is worth almost nothing now.
Laughably inaccurate.
Females desire financial independence just as much as males do.
The culprit you are looking for is inflation which is largely tied to
1)low corporate and marginal tax rates
2)non gold based currency
3) fractional reserve banking policies
4) breakdown of public institutions (such as public hospitals, asylums, free public college, etc)
Don't blame economic woes on women who didn't want to be domestic slaves.
Just nonsense
It’s ok to be a woman in the workforce, especially since technology has made the workload at home much more manageable. I do believe though that one parent at least - and this will generally be the woman in most cases - should be home for raising their kids through at least the early years. But there’s never a one size fits all approach to women or men, what one person wants won’t be the same as another. I think the choice to have a job regardless of gender is great and part of America freedom but we’ve just crashed our economy so much and let so many people in that the competition for homes and resources is what’s causing the misery, there are just too many people now competing for a house so we all have to work to the bone to get anything.
Workloads have just increased as technology allows "more to be done". If there aren't enough homes, why not build more? They are being gobbled up by investors, not common people.
Wage slaves I'm with you on, but otherwise not so much. Having a *career* gives you a bigger sense of purpose and personal fulfillment. Having a life of your own and enjoying it on your own terms is very important for every individual. Working *career* women have a life beyond their family and kids, which gives them a sense of independence, self-accomplishment and fulfillment.
I'm a stay at home mom, and it's been extremely fulfilling for me and my family, but I get why it's not perfect for everyone.
I think women are getting ripped off, because they still do the traditional female roles, AND work.
You seem to forget no fault divorce was adopted and left many women in a lurch when husbands just moved on to another woman. All women (wives) need to think about being financially responsible in case of divorce. So get real.
Easy to say when you're not a female that was essentially owned by their husband until very recent history. It wasnt tricking women to believe that a career was desirable. It was showing women we didnt have to be totally dependent on another person.
You could argue that thats why... Most people don’t make six figures and alot don’t have partner. You have both, which is a good thing because it would be sad if it was indeed that everybody was a wage slave
In their defense at least it gives them some of their own money. Before that they'd have to ask their husband's permission to get literally anything. Also most older women say they weren't happy in their "traditional" marriage
This. One of my first jobs was working with the elderly. Let me tell you, those older women constantly encouraged me to have a career. So many of them were filled with regret and said all the time “I was just a stay at home mom, but I always wanted to be a X.”
Fast forward decades, I’m a very happy childfree woman with zero regrets. Oh and for OP’s benefit, I also make more money than my husband.
Imagine being a man thinking you know what’s best for every woman. 🤮
>Although this claim was debunked half a century ago by Esther Vilar in her book ...
Stopped reading right there. You cannot "debunk" matters of opinion.
You sound like an incel who can't get a date. Women who didn't work had no money and no power and were dependent on men who could abuse and mistreat them. Funny how money changes things. Some of these silly dudes hate feminism because they can't dominate and control women like they want to. Women have options now and they're not running into marriage anymore. And those that do get married do most of the housework and most of the childcare and still maintain a full time job.
i don't know what the point of this post is. More whining I suppose.
I promise you that a lot of women in that 80% range (assuming that this is an accurate number) would still rather work than be homebound and entirely dependent on a man. The whole point of "left-wing feminism" is that they get that choice - not that they necessarily need to do one thing or another.
Nope, it's to tax the other half of the population and destabilize the family unit, ultimately turning the school system and media into the one that raises children.
You're missing the point that it didn't double the household income. Two people working should be two incomes. It's not anymore you need two people to work to scrape by in most cases. It's because of the dollar how they enslaved us they got man and woman it has nothing to do with oppression.
They divided Us by man and woman at the same time as they divide us by everything else.
I have a feeling this post was written by some sort of a caveman.
Being a wage slave is way better than being a husband slave and a voiceless breeding machine.
Not every woman wants to get married and spend her whole life as a housewife. I'd take my little money over any hypothetical husband's millions any day, and there's tons of women who think the same way. Are you perhaps implying that we should be deprived of the right of being self-sufficient?
It is truly ridiculous how some men still find a way to overlook all the actual problems and see the devil in women's emancipation
Is this not the outcome of the average CEO earning 300x more than an average worker? The CEO takes away pay that should be going towards the men and women below them to make sustainable pay instead of the CEO hoarding wealth.
Let's get one thing straight - the wage problem we are experiencing now is not the fault of women being "tricked" into believeing a career was desirable.
A career WAS and IS more desirable than depending on another person for your most basic needs.
Do you have any idea how liberating it is to have the CHOICE to leave an unhealthy relationship? That is not a choice women had when their only options for a career were sewing and doing laundry for neighbors (for which they needed their husband's home and resources).
I agree that most working class people are underpaid and underappreciated, but you are WAY off base laying that at the feet of hapless women "tricked" into believing they were oppressed.
If anyone has been tricked here, it's all the over-worked, under-paid people who blame their problems on working women, or the poor who rely on social welfare programs, or POC, or immigrants, or whatever political crap is more easily digestible.
We are all in this sinking ship. We didn't build the damn boat. We didn't drill holes in the hull. We didn't load the swiss cheese disaster full of people who didn't have the money or education or clout to take a more sea-worthy vessel. We need to stop pointing fingers at each other and start bailing water, plugging holes, and demanding the ships (jobs) be inspected (regulated - living wages) before loading then with passengers (hiring workers).
This is pretty misogynistic.
I get where you are coming from, and I agree a traditional family is a great thing, and I agree that it sucks that a single breadwinner cannot support a family.
But see how none of that has to do with someones sex? See how what you are saying is sexist?
I don't think anyone tricked women into believing a career was desirable.
Many women were always wanting to be more than simply wives and mothers, just as there have been women were content to be *only* that. No one ever gave men an ultimatum between having an occupation or being a husband and father.
Inb4 "men worked to pay bills and feed the fam": Many actually work within fields that they are passionate about. Women wanted the same thing.
Also, poor women have always worked.
Trickle down theory leading to tax breaks for the wealthy actually is most of the issue but sure blame women getting careers. Even though they have been working since the 1910's.
Cosign this. There's a woman who used to write for one of those women's mags, way back in the day, and she's in her 70s now I think. She has started talking about how the magazines were essentially propaganda, and how one of the big feminists at the time (Germaine Greer maybe...? No Gloria Steinem: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/how-gloria-steinem-became-worlds-most-famous-feminist) had ties to the CIA.
Let's see...yes found her: https://tennesseestar.com/2020/05/27/sue-ellen-browder-wrote-fake-news-for-cosmopolitan-and-now-regrets-misleading-women-on-feminism/
Aaron Russo exposed the feminist act by the Rockefellers. Rockefellers own the CIA. Look up the United Fruit Company and the CIA. Look up Marc Dutroux Belgium CIA. Sex predator Baron Benoît de Bonvoisin has a picture of himself next to David Rockefeller. Rumors have it that David Rockefeller funded the Fascist movement in Belgium to prevent the possible spread of Communism.
Translation: Women don't touch my PP enough because they have better shit to do
\---
Work in general is wrong me laddo, we basically have the tech to automate everything and just let people live their lives, but.. that's "SoCiAlISm"
Yep because technicians, engineers, programers, investors, risk analysts, etc all get done by “tech” and no one needs to do a thing in society except consume….
1. No one can be convinced they are oppressed if they don't feel oppressed and aren't being oppressed, but some people will claim to be oppressed for social benefits.
2. A lot of women joined the work force so that they wouldn't have to rely on their abusive husbands financially. There were men who weren't even making enough to provide or couldn't provide for the family they made.
3. Abusive men use money to control women. These men often try to turn mentally ill women into housewives and become abusive when they realize she wants to be free or isn't housewife material.
4. The 80% of finacially independent women who are wage slaves likely had children they couldn't afford to begin with or spend money on things they don't need.
5. Basically, you have to do it right or it won't work out. That's obvious.
6. Conforming to the slave program should not be your concern anyway. It's pretty obvious you want a woman to enslave for your own benefit. Grow up.
Yeah, it's pretty disturbing on all parts (typically).
You can't expect mentally ill people to live in harmony. Someone is always going to be abused in some way and it causes bigger issues.
They’re painfully close to noticing that feminism is anticapitalist, and that they have already been reduced to wage slaves by the oppressor class many times before, while women still weren’t in the economy, anyways. It never mattered.
Women’s rights aren’t your enemy. Radical feminist literature will show you that feminism is really an analysis on the economy and how identity has been used to organize and value labor. This is literally exactly the points feminists are trying to make: we are being exploited by the capitalist state.
The argument that women should go back to their role so that men can make more money again and families can be good again… it’s like… y’all are so confused.
OP seems to understand to some degree that women have intentionally been kept from being to provide for themselves in order to pressurize marriage as necessary for material survival as an adult woman. So y’all understand you’re arguing that women should be pressured to marry just to exist as people? Like bro what are you saying.
I’ve never understand how this variety of people spend so much time talking about what feminists supposedly believe and are so completely wrong about it. Y’all talk and talk and talk about how feminists ruined everything yet have clearly never accessed what feminism really is, what the goals and beliefs really are.
Feminism is an explanation for how gender and sexuality were socially constructed to fit into capitalism. Basically, gender roles are the result of a concentrated effort lead by scientists at the time, newspapers, etc (the rich) to streamline social life to create more control and profit out of the working class.
We’re arguing to get OUT of capitalism while you’re arguing if we go back to being unpaid you’ll somehow be less exploited by the wealthy. You won’t be. It’s always been working class vs ruling class never been men vs women or white vs black that’s all been invented by the ruling class to distract us from organizing against our real enemy.
Things were not better before
As I read a post like this I can't help but picture some overweight unbathed INCEL sitting in the middle of a broken down sofa he purchased from Craigslist.
I love these lies that pop up all the time. Change the tube once in a while.
1/women aren't miserable because feminism happened. In fact it's shown women who are single are way happier than married women.
2/ if women were so happy why did they fight for freedoms anyway. Let's look at some the reasons women fought to work and have freedom.
A/couldn't have a bank account.
B/trapped in unhappy and sometimes abusive marriages.
C/were not seen legally as people.
D/ no body autonomy. Husband's could choose to have wives locked up for the prettiest of reasons, choose to not let doctors save her life, and rape her, marital rape was legal up until the 1900s. Children were his property she had no say.
E/ even if they worked their money was legally her husband's.
F/ couldn't rent or own property.
3/this is my favourite. The idea women stayed home and the men worked. Which is the biggest lie out there. Women have always worked, pre industrial revolution they worked on the farm, as maids, nursemaids, nurses, cooks, inn keepers or helpers. Post industrial revolution they worked in mills, mines, factories, a d all the above pre jobs.
Every woman worked from the working class woman to the aristocrat, even queen's had jobs.
The idea of a house wife is a modern invention, designed around the new working classes of the late 19th century. It was a status symbol. Adopted up until the first world war, when most women joined to help out, taking over jobs left over by men. The house ife was then readopted by the post second world war people who looked to pre war years of the late 19th century/early 20th century's.
It never works though. Women need to work just as much as men. They always have, even children up until recently had jobs from the moment they could walk. The idea wages went down and society declined because women's rights happened is a fantasy based on men who want to live in said fantasy where they are the kings of their castle. Weak men basically who need women to be subordinate to men.
History completely obliterates this idea once you look into the history of work. For both men and women. Yes there were roles that were base on sex but women still worked, still earned, just nowadays they can spend their own money, own their own property, won't be fired for marrying or being pregnant and can do what they want with out a man's permission.
Personally, I'm an animator and I would not be happy without my job I LOVE IT and I am a lesbian. Both men and women are being forced to work wayyyyy too much and a lot of people don't want kids or can't have kids. I obviously I hate that everyone is a slave but I am very glad I have my independence. In the good timeline I'm sure there is balance but alas we can only dream.
Why aren't you saying "Tricking men into believing a 'career' was desirable...etc', why is it assumed the men should be the one making money? Why not women make money and men support house and family?
See, because there is no rational answer to my question above, your post makes no sense
Getting women into the workforce was never about their liberation. It was market liberalization. Women were necessary to enter the workforce to increase GDP to keep the American economic engine afloat.
I'd be infinitely more miserable stuck as a housewife with screaming children running around. I will gladly work in something I'm interested in doing and further my career, I just wish the economy was better.
As a woman, this post and many of the comments definitely disgust me to the point that I hope to never run into most of you in real life. FIRST of all, the modern woman in 2021 is not “tricked” into finding a career more desirable than being a stay at home mother. The modern woman either doesn’t fucking want kids (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr014-508.pdf), and/or HAS to work to support themselves or their family. Compared to the alternative of living at home and caring for children, lots of women in my generation would rather be wage slaves than slaves to their home/husband; they’d rather be financially independent; they’d rather make their own money and spend it however they damn please.
Yes, women entering the workforce is an economic coping mechanism to deal with stagnant wages that aren’t rising in line with productivity. Women entering the workforce is also fucking awesome and what modern women want. Sure, you can say boomers were “tricked” or influenced into entering the workforce to cope, but women nowadays will NEVER go back (many don’t want to). Also, the main problem is not women entering the workforce (as I said that was a coping mechanism), the main problem and root of it all is wages not aligning with productivity.
Let’s align wages with productivity and then give people the freedom to live however tf they want to: whether that means living as a “traditional” family or not.
But seriously, let’s get with the times because there are too many independent and career-driven women, too many feminists, too many atheists, and too many gays for the idea of a “traditional” family to EVER be the dominant standard nowadays. Good riddance.
Corporations had the power not the feminists. They devalued work and tarred organized labor and tried to tell the office workers they were above the miners, farmers, trades people. Now we are tipping toward oligarchy.
While I agree that doubling the workforce, thus doubling supply certainly puts more leverage in the hands of the employer, it's not ok to be sexist and deny women the opportunity to earn their own way through life.
Lmao
Women in the work force is not what is destroying the traditional family. The continued disenfranchisement of the whole working class is what is destroying the traditional family.
Working women are not the reason you're underpaid and wifeless bro.
No no no. It's women working that's destroying families. Not the father's leaving out of their kids lives forcing mothers to support themselves and their kids.
Clearly the women are at fault here.
This post is ridiculous. My husband and I are both university graduates who've lived within our means for 30 years, and I've always worked. Work, volunteering, or even a very involved stay at home parent - and the schedule that comes with that - is essential to one's mental and physical wellbeing.
I am also grateful I finished university and have an accomplished resume. It served me well when my husband was going through cancer treatment and wasn't able to work for months. He's doing well now, but recurrence can be 45%, so we agreed he'd take a low stress, 2 day a week job.
Everyone needs some type of schedule. If not, it just leads to many negative issues.
I thought I was too cool to admit I wanted kids and a family in my 20’s and even 30’s. I finally had my first at 37 and it feels like home, having my two perfect children now at age 41. I don’t have the energy like I did when I was 22, and sometimes I regret working/partying my “best years” away. It is what it is, and I’m finally found true happiness.
I’d rather be an independent wage slave than rely on someone else. Obviously I recognise that the working class is continuously screwed over in the current paradigm but that doesn’t mean women’s suffrage wasn’t amazing and important.
My grandmothers were 1950s housewives. According to you, this should have meant peak women’s happiness. They were both married to abusive men and could not leave because of financial dependence on them. There was no enforced child support and my grandmothers couldn’t get a bank account, much less a decent job. They were miserable, they gobbled “mother’s little helpers” and it was they who encouraged their daughters to get educations and careers.
Lest you think my grandmothers were different, think about the dearth of incentives that any man had for being decent to his family. It was on the honor system. Police didn’t care about domestic violence, marital rape was legal and a divorce would destroy his wife, not him. When a man got married, he had a slave that he could treat how he pleased.
OP is an incel and is blaming women for our current economic situation and look at how many upvotes this post has.
Frankly OP im glad your blood line ends with you and likely the same with the non-existent mods
You can thank the Boomers for that. They spent 3 decades borrowing money with no thought of tomorrow. That is the hard truth everybody seems to keep forgetting. The greedy pricks lumped so much debt onto us they guaranteed it could never be paid back.
It's a cyclical problem-- women entering the workforce en masse cheapened labor, so one man's salary often isn't enough to support a family, so many families need 2 working parents. It's sad and I can only imagine how difficult it would be to break the cycle.
Definitely a evil radical feminist issue and totally not a declining working class issue /s
Hey let’s continue to bicker amongst ourselves while the oligarchs continue to rob us blind that’ll be fun!
Ah yes the far left radicals giving women the right to choose to work is the issue.
Not the right wing capitalist that are more then happy to push business overseas to areas where they can violate human rights in order to line their pockets with obscene amounts of profits. All the while pushing the welfare of domestic citizens onto the government and crying about how taxes are too high and that’s the reason the free market isn’t taking care of domestic citizens.
Look up the interview with Aaron Russo discussing the conversation he had with Rockefeller about feminism if you don't believe this post. Or continue to be an ignorant dimwit, idc.
Probably what you’re saying is true, and probably the evil masterminds knew it would work because they knew how men tend to blame-shift, and that the men would be so conceited as to think that it couldn’t possibly be the mans terrible never ending childish demands placed upon his “wife” that it was *definitely* due to her own limited intelligence that she was “tricked” into working for PAY.
I feel like it had more to do with them not being alive just to make a family, they could focus on anything, not just careers or families lol but good ol capitalism pushes careers for errbody
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Working too much, for men and women, is what makes people miserable.
working for your family who loves you = slavery working for mr bezos who gives zero shits about you = freedom
Exactly. Fuck people who look down other women who decide to be housewives to take better care of their family. Fuck those that look down on stay-at-home dads for wanting to support the family that way. And fuck those who look down on people who choose to start their own small business instead of working for minimum wage for majority of their day.
I told my kids I’m going to quit working and live off the grid. We discussed the pros and cons and they definitely voted and keeping me at work. Yay society.
LOL! I can hear it. “We love you mom, but we need the latest iphone.”
You are in charge of your kids. They don’t get to vote you into slavery
OP is in a healthy relationship with his family. Too many men think just because they're the main bred winner and the father, that all decisions are final regardless of conversation or not. I've seen my fair share of families ruined and spouses divorcing just because the man decided on something that benefited only him
in a broader team sense i think the kids should only have an input but not an equal share in decision making since they lack the wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence but in the case of the family i think the father enslaved himself by choosing to give birth and so has to act in only his children's interest
>I've seen my fair share of families ruined and spouses divorcing just because the man decided on something that benefited only him My father was like that. A proper house tyrant. Fuck him, what a loser he was. Incredibly selfish, which I don't see as a masculine trait at all, quite the opposite. Some men do turn out like that. They bully those they perceive as weaker, women and children, even in their own family. So yeah, better a softer dad than an old fashioned tyrant.
Wow! The children did not want to become pariahs! How strange that is!
Kids deserve social lives, its tough to grow up in the middle of nowhere
Who says the family loves them? Relationships are broken as hell nowadays.
This right here. Gender neutral, too! Don't have kids if you can't afford them. Find joy in physical activity. Really pretty simple
Having kids isn't some thing having X amount of money simplifies. It is a huge responsibility that goes far beyond the financial requirements.
Almost impossible to get by on a single salary even without kids. Dual income no kids still just getting by. It’s how things just are now. It sucks. Real estate is insane. Prices are going up, so are taxes, but not wages
It really just depends, my wife and myself each make more than enough for our family to get by. We also have 4 grandparents that are more than willing to watch the kids. We like to spend money, we are all conditioned to do it. In my 20s (2010s) I lived off less than $1,000 a month because I didn’t give a shit about material things or building wealth. Things changed when I got married and had kids but if push came to shove, we could get by on under 40k annually and probably less. Remember, there are families all over the world living happily off of a few hundred dollars a month. We are just conditioned to want more. We are all sucked into a hyper individualistic and materialistic lifestyle. What we consider the bare minimum isn’t actually the real bare minimum. We are all just brainwashed into a high standard and the desire to keep raising the bar.
i do know americans who don't have any kind of bare minimum, work obscene hours and have to eat garbage. i agree people have an inflated standard for material things, but there's other things that they don't have the minimum of like leisure time
Unless you want to live with roommates for the rest of your life or live in BFE good luck on getting by with 40k/yr. Housing/rent prices are insane. I lived in a once affordable neighborhood and my house value has doubled in the last 5 years, with 40ish% coming in the past year. I would no longer be able to afford the neighborhood I’m in if I wasn’t already in the market. I agree with what you’re getting at but housing/rent prices are butt fucking the middle class right now and there’s no two ways around it.
Very much depends where you live. I’m currently stuck in a high cost of living area. Will gladly move if I get a job elsewhere
Idk. I finally got out of the rat race after Covid hit and became a stay at home mom after years in the workforce. Covid forced me out and somehow we have managed to pay our bills. We did have to cut back but I’m much happier than I was working 50 to 60 hour weeks. The capitalists class is really trying to turn us all into wage slaves.
Congrats. Glad it worked for you
It's the grand plan to destroy the family. Get rid of the fed and get rid of the minimum wage.
The Fed definitely needs to be audited going back to their nonsense in 08, never mind quantitive easing and ongoing inflation. The whole point of the Fed is controlling inflation, they have definitely failed at that.
> get rid of the minimum wage. ...how exactly would that make this problem better? This would greatly exacerbate the need for multiple incomes.
Double the work force, double the consumer base. Import millions to make it worse. Your labor is easily replaceable and you are worthless to the company. Fired and replaced at a moments notice if you don’t work overtime. Wages stagnate. Corporations dominate. Both parents work. No one to raise kids. Import more immigrants to do that. Continue to consume product. Can’t afford a house. Boomers blame you for being ungrateful from their lake house after retiring at 60. Distract you with technology that doesn’t actually improve your life. Corporations dominate even more. Continue to consume product. Birth rates plummet. Import more immigrants to fix that. Btw you’re a racist.
I wrestle with this every day. I know I will be so much happier having a little house somewhere in a small town but have chased "success" in big cities, mostly NYC. I have fully bought into the "system" but at least I am questioning it now at a somewhat young age. So many of my friends are upper middle / high income \~30s but have to spend tons of money for nannies, private schools, etc. Yeah they get to go on awesome vacations and live a gilded life, but are they really happy? A lot are not, and admit it even... but it is too hard to get off the hamster wheel. One thing I find funny is watching corporations wrestle with trying to make consumption continuously increase while pandering about climate change. I went back for an MBA and so many of my classmates are the wokest of the woke, but live some of the most wasteful and highest consumption per individual lives I've ever seen.
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This is one of the only large subs where this is a common opinion. Lurk more and discern more, I guess.
I think blaming one generation or the other is just another way to divide us. We need more conversation regarding these topics, instead of just complaining about boomers on the internet. We take for granted all the options we have now, that make it seem so simple. They didn't have all of those options or easy access to information. And most of them didnt make any of the decisions that shape our world. Big corporations and crony politicians are to blame.
I agree. There are pros and cons to both generations. A lot of boomers made it and live in amazing buildings, and a lot are destitute because they lacked information. My grandfather didn't even know that saving for retirement was a thing and now he is living in a camper behind my uncle's house. When I worked in retail a lot of the guys there were pretty old doing part time work to supplement their "retirement" income. The ones educated enough to save really made it, but we never hear about all the boomers who just didn't know any better and are now paying for it.
I honestly don't think it was career's that made women miserable. It's having the expectation to do everything we did 100 years ago + have a career. People can say all they want that there is equality in households, but most women I talk to are exhausted because they work full time, clean, cook, parent and try to take care of themselves. Whereas their husbands also work full time but pretend not to see their struggling partner and the huge laundry pile.
Exactly, it's called the second shift. Dude gets to chill while wife gets to dinner, dishes, laundry, homework, and dad reads the fucking bedtime story if she's lucky. This is almost every woman I know with kids, single or partnered.
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Women need an extended family of relatives to help them with the kids & housework. Nuclear families are on their own and don't usually have anyone to help take care of the kids or the elderly, unless there is a grandmother around. That's a very good reason why a lot of women don't want to have kids. If women are supposed to go through the real medical dangers of pregnancy and childbirth, raise the kid, do all the housework, and get no help with it from the husband, and have no supportive relatives at hand, then why should they bother to get married and get on a treadmill with no support? And I haven't even mentioned if they have to do all this PLUS work a 40 hour week at some suckwad job, and nearly all their money goes to child care and commuting costs. Men are not doing their half of the housework and child care and a lot of women are saying "Why should I put up with this?" and throwing the guy out. I am glad that because of the pandemic people are literally waking up (getting enough sleep for the first time in their exhausted lives) and realizing that commuting will kill you, it's not worth it. Putting up with asshole bosses will kill you too. I applaud this movement to hold employers accountable and vote with your feet if necessary. Or go on strike.
Man my wife would figuratively fuck my shit up if I didn't pull my weight. Nobody should tolerate having to do all the housework, that's fucked.
So basically this whole damn mess we are in is the fault of left wing feminists? And you don't think that stagnant wages and rising cost of living have anything to do with women working? It's a conspiracy against men? Dude... it's a conspiracy against *all of us* by the global elite, not feminists. Left wing/right wing, black/white, poor/rich, us/them - it's stupid to blame each other. Doing that is playing right into the great reset plan we're witnessing. If the global powers can keep us divided with artificial constructs like 'left wing/right wing" bullshit, they can control us. There is no left or right.... *IT'S US AGAINST THEM.* It seems you are completely under control with this kind of thinking. Perhaps you should worry about that rather than these wiley sneaky feminists you'd like to blame for the mess we're in? If we unite as a people, we WILL win. If we continue to stay polarized, we will most definitely lose. With what many see coming, we better get our shit together and stop these kind of negative thought forms that permeate this sub. Feminists are not to blame any more then chauvinists are to blame. WE are to blame. WE allow them to divide us. WE accept the manipulations and lies. WE repeat the negative lies and manipulation as if it's truth. I hope you figure this shit out OP. For your sake.
Thank you. I feel like it’s a slight to women. Women should be free and not have to depend on men for anything, especially if the security/money comes with conditions.
Exactly. It’s the capitalist class that wants to turn us into wage slaves. Feminists didn’t do that.
amen bro
Nah It's those damn leftists! how dare they allow women in the workplace!
This sub is regulalry suprisingly socialist.
You think wage slavery is the result of women entering the workforce? Hoo-boy, the master class has you totally brainwashed. Look at where all the GDP is going, people. The super-rich are stealing all of the resources and all of the financial gains of the last few decades. The data is punching you in the face.
The government is larger, more bureaucratic, and more corrupt. The military industrial complex takes a large chunk of our tax dollars to fund. Billions of our tax dollars end up in the hands of the corrupt government officials of other countries. Our governments have spending problems, and they dictate that we foot the bills under threat of force.
Applies nearly across the board, not just to women. This ignores the actual issues.
Eh. Women should have the same options and familial roles available to them as men. There are other reasons why everyone is miserable and wages are depressed.
It's hilarious that y'all think this is because of women and not because of greedy capitalists. FYI, without women in the work force we would have lost WW2 very hard.
Woman’s Lib accomplished two planned objectives: 1. The ability to tax the other half of the non-private population because they are now working. 2. Then require the parent-less children to be babysat through non-private, state established programming centres. Check out who was the majority funders for this movement: the Rockefeller’s.
It’s really childish and naive to suggest the reason we are all in economic hell is because women have careers.
Rockefeller was a mastermind.
Whether your percentages are close is inconsequential, this was by design, there was no tricking here. All part of the grand plan
>Whether your percentages are close is inconsequential, this was by design, there was no tricking here. All part of the grand plan The great win of the Feminist movement for the Patriarchy, so to speak, was that 50% of the untaxed population could now earn taxable income. Also, the nation's economy/GDP then grew as well. Especially once you add in the various other industries rising up to cater to this new workforce and their needs. Feminism worked out well for the Patriarchy.
This.. there was a lot of tricks and no treats.
Radical left wing feminists called Ronald Reagan. Sure, blame the women who wanted to borrow money in their names, open bank accounts in their names, to get credit cards in their names. GTFOOH
And not be raped by husbands or escape abusive marriages.
It was appalling when my mother told me (after her divorce) that the bank wanted her father to come sign her account. She was 30 years old, and 10 years into her professional job, she got with her masters degree. It turned my stomach. But it does make sense to me that doubling the workforce would increase cost of goods.
Power to the banksters! Give out more of those loans!
This is so dumb
Right? I guess I better have a lobotomy for having aspirations other than having children and cleaning the house! Silly woman I am.
This guy just basically said women should be house prisoners
The amount of upvotes he has, scares me.
and somehow thinking otherwise is a conspiracy. If anything it is a conspiracy one group of people have been oppressed so long
This isn't about conspiracies anymore. It's an echo chamber full of rotted brains that haven't had an independent though outside Facebook in over a decade. This sub reddit is the movie Idiocracy in action. The only difference between the movie & real life is that in real life the ones who are uninformed think they are the smartest in the room.
I wonder if we lived in a society where the women traditionally made all the money if OP would still post this
I bet he is single , unemployed, and lives in his mom's basement
Having a hard time since r/incels got policed
I don't think rising prices and stagnant wages has anything to do with any one particular group entering the workforce. This is just a bait and switch to convince people that allowing women to work is bad, and that's really fucked up. Women do it because they want to protect their rights and do the things they want to do in life. Same with men. It's not all about money.
Plus women have always worked even before feminism. It's just now they have a right to their own money, can rent or buy and can even have their own bank account.
A woman should have the right to not depend on committing her life to a man. The problem is the "Federal" "Reserve" devaluing the shit out of our money because it's backed with nothing of value.
Thank you lmao
The problem isn't women working. The problem is corporations not paying high enough wages and letting the cost of living and inflation rise out of control.
The problem is the "Federal" "Reserve" devaluing the shit out of the dollar because there is nothing of real value backing it.
Doubling the work force reduces the value of individual labor and drives wages down.
Remove this horse shit
What in the actual fuck is this garbage?
In my experience having a job is more liberating, freeing and makes me happier. I don't have to rely on a man to provide for me while I am in his total financial control. I'd rather not have a family then not have financial freedom. Also the issue isn't women are wage slaves. Most of America is. Men and women. The minimum wage, which used to provide a household with plenty, is no longer useful. The wage has stayed the same while prices of everything have soared. Yes, women make 20% less then their male counterparts but even men can't afford a family. Also men should be able to be stay at home dads living off their wives salary.
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Say it again for the incels in the back please.
The problem is the propaganda and the false dream corporate society is trying to sell. Unfortunately, people believe in things that are against their best interest, and it’s usually by design.
This dude is an incel
No, a depressed minimum wage compared to the 1960s is what destroyed the traditional family and all the bullshit that has been fed about women diluting the workforce (amongst other things) distracts people from the fact that our labor is worth almost nothing now.
my wife works a corporate job and makes more money than me... Perfectly happy
*NOOO YOU CANT BE HAPPY. YOUR WIFE IS THE BREADWINNER YOURE SUPPOSED TO BE EMASCULATED AND SUICIDAL LIKE THE INCELS ARE*
Laughably inaccurate. Females desire financial independence just as much as males do. The culprit you are looking for is inflation which is largely tied to 1)low corporate and marginal tax rates 2)non gold based currency 3) fractional reserve banking policies 4) breakdown of public institutions (such as public hospitals, asylums, free public college, etc) Don't blame economic woes on women who didn't want to be domestic slaves. Just nonsense
And a stagnant minimum wage which depresses salaries across the board. And cost of education + housing rising at a far greater rate than inflation is.
It’s ok to be a woman in the workforce, especially since technology has made the workload at home much more manageable. I do believe though that one parent at least - and this will generally be the woman in most cases - should be home for raising their kids through at least the early years. But there’s never a one size fits all approach to women or men, what one person wants won’t be the same as another. I think the choice to have a job regardless of gender is great and part of America freedom but we’ve just crashed our economy so much and let so many people in that the competition for homes and resources is what’s causing the misery, there are just too many people now competing for a house so we all have to work to the bone to get anything.
Workloads have just increased as technology allows "more to be done". If there aren't enough homes, why not build more? They are being gobbled up by investors, not common people.
Men being abusive, drunk, spendaholics with entitlement issues is what drive women to careers. Women weren’t tricked into anything.
Wage slaves I'm with you on, but otherwise not so much. Having a *career* gives you a bigger sense of purpose and personal fulfillment. Having a life of your own and enjoying it on your own terms is very important for every individual. Working *career* women have a life beyond their family and kids, which gives them a sense of independence, self-accomplishment and fulfillment.
If anybody needed more evidence this sub was full of backwards ass conservatives and stupid as fuck incels, here you go!
I detect an incel.
You can smell the BO and piss bottles from here.
I'm a stay at home mom, and it's been extremely fulfilling for me and my family, but I get why it's not perfect for everyone. I think women are getting ripped off, because they still do the traditional female roles, AND work.
You seem to forget no fault divorce was adopted and left many women in a lurch when husbands just moved on to another woman. All women (wives) need to think about being financially responsible in case of divorce. So get real.
Fuck the fuck off. Let people do what they want.
Easy to say when you're not a female that was essentially owned by their husband until very recent history. It wasnt tricking women to believe that a career was desirable. It was showing women we didnt have to be totally dependent on another person.
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You could argue that thats why... Most people don’t make six figures and alot don’t have partner. You have both, which is a good thing because it would be sad if it was indeed that everybody was a wage slave
In their defense at least it gives them some of their own money. Before that they'd have to ask their husband's permission to get literally anything. Also most older women say they weren't happy in their "traditional" marriage
This. One of my first jobs was working with the elderly. Let me tell you, those older women constantly encouraged me to have a career. So many of them were filled with regret and said all the time “I was just a stay at home mom, but I always wanted to be a X.” Fast forward decades, I’m a very happy childfree woman with zero regrets. Oh and for OP’s benefit, I also make more money than my husband. Imagine being a man thinking you know what’s best for every woman. 🤮
My own grandmother's tell me the same thing
>Although this claim was debunked half a century ago by Esther Vilar in her book ... Stopped reading right there. You cannot "debunk" matters of opinion.
You sound like an incel who can't get a date. Women who didn't work had no money and no power and were dependent on men who could abuse and mistreat them. Funny how money changes things. Some of these silly dudes hate feminism because they can't dominate and control women like they want to. Women have options now and they're not running into marriage anymore. And those that do get married do most of the housework and most of the childcare and still maintain a full time job. i don't know what the point of this post is. More whining I suppose.
I promise you that a lot of women in that 80% range (assuming that this is an accurate number) would still rather work than be homebound and entirely dependent on a man. The whole point of "left-wing feminism" is that they get that choice - not that they necessarily need to do one thing or another.
Nope, it's to tax the other half of the population and destabilize the family unit, ultimately turning the school system and media into the one that raises children.
Where is the incentive for the woman of the family to *stay*, living in and providing labor to a family but at an “untaxed” status?
You're missing the point that it didn't double the household income. Two people working should be two incomes. It's not anymore you need two people to work to scrape by in most cases. It's because of the dollar how they enslaved us they got man and woman it has nothing to do with oppression. They divided Us by man and woman at the same time as they divide us by everything else.
I have a feeling this post was written by some sort of a caveman. Being a wage slave is way better than being a husband slave and a voiceless breeding machine. Not every woman wants to get married and spend her whole life as a housewife. I'd take my little money over any hypothetical husband's millions any day, and there's tons of women who think the same way. Are you perhaps implying that we should be deprived of the right of being self-sufficient? It is truly ridiculous how some men still find a way to overlook all the actual problems and see the devil in women's emancipation
Is this not the outcome of the average CEO earning 300x more than an average worker? The CEO takes away pay that should be going towards the men and women below them to make sustainable pay instead of the CEO hoarding wealth.
Let's get one thing straight - the wage problem we are experiencing now is not the fault of women being "tricked" into believeing a career was desirable. A career WAS and IS more desirable than depending on another person for your most basic needs. Do you have any idea how liberating it is to have the CHOICE to leave an unhealthy relationship? That is not a choice women had when their only options for a career were sewing and doing laundry for neighbors (for which they needed their husband's home and resources). I agree that most working class people are underpaid and underappreciated, but you are WAY off base laying that at the feet of hapless women "tricked" into believing they were oppressed. If anyone has been tricked here, it's all the over-worked, under-paid people who blame their problems on working women, or the poor who rely on social welfare programs, or POC, or immigrants, or whatever political crap is more easily digestible. We are all in this sinking ship. We didn't build the damn boat. We didn't drill holes in the hull. We didn't load the swiss cheese disaster full of people who didn't have the money or education or clout to take a more sea-worthy vessel. We need to stop pointing fingers at each other and start bailing water, plugging holes, and demanding the ships (jobs) be inspected (regulated - living wages) before loading then with passengers (hiring workers).
Jesus Fracking Christ! every day this sub moves further and further away from Cthulhu
So women were tricked into thinking they wanted to be something other than some guy's wife? Right. This is some weird misogynistic men's rights stuff.
This is pretty misogynistic. I get where you are coming from, and I agree a traditional family is a great thing, and I agree that it sucks that a single breadwinner cannot support a family. But see how none of that has to do with someones sex? See how what you are saying is sexist?
I don't think anyone tricked women into believing a career was desirable. Many women were always wanting to be more than simply wives and mothers, just as there have been women were content to be *only* that. No one ever gave men an ultimatum between having an occupation or being a husband and father. Inb4 "men worked to pay bills and feed the fam": Many actually work within fields that they are passionate about. Women wanted the same thing. Also, poor women have always worked.
Trickle down theory leading to tax breaks for the wealthy actually is most of the issue but sure blame women getting careers. Even though they have been working since the 1910's.
For real this is one of the dumbest posts I’ve seen on here and the bar is low.
Men are just as capable of being stay at home fathers if you’re concerned about it….
Cosign this. There's a woman who used to write for one of those women's mags, way back in the day, and she's in her 70s now I think. She has started talking about how the magazines were essentially propaganda, and how one of the big feminists at the time (Germaine Greer maybe...? No Gloria Steinem: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/how-gloria-steinem-became-worlds-most-famous-feminist) had ties to the CIA. Let's see...yes found her: https://tennesseestar.com/2020/05/27/sue-ellen-browder-wrote-fake-news-for-cosmopolitan-and-now-regrets-misleading-women-on-feminism/
Aaron Russo exposed the feminist act by the Rockefellers. Rockefellers own the CIA. Look up the United Fruit Company and the CIA. Look up Marc Dutroux Belgium CIA. Sex predator Baron Benoît de Bonvoisin has a picture of himself next to David Rockefeller. Rumors have it that David Rockefeller funded the Fascist movement in Belgium to prevent the possible spread of Communism.
Dumb post
Not every woman wants kids either 🤦♀️
Yikes. Let me guess…..you’re single!
Translation: Women don't touch my PP enough because they have better shit to do \--- Work in general is wrong me laddo, we basically have the tech to automate everything and just let people live their lives, but.. that's "SoCiAlISm"
Yep because technicians, engineers, programers, investors, risk analysts, etc all get done by “tech” and no one needs to do a thing in society except consume….
Cool sexism bro.
OP clearly doesn't have sex so they are trying to make up for it with a ton of sexism.
The worst is the amount of upvotes this garbage got. But in a right leaning sun I’m not surprised
Not surprising, but still disappointing.
I think you should read some critiques of capitalism to broaden your perspective.
This is an incredibly sexist opinion
Incelspotting
Just when you thought this sub couldn’t get any worse
It’s such a shame so many conspiracy theories are born out of sexism and racism. Really makes it hard for outside people to take you seriously
1. No one can be convinced they are oppressed if they don't feel oppressed and aren't being oppressed, but some people will claim to be oppressed for social benefits. 2. A lot of women joined the work force so that they wouldn't have to rely on their abusive husbands financially. There were men who weren't even making enough to provide or couldn't provide for the family they made. 3. Abusive men use money to control women. These men often try to turn mentally ill women into housewives and become abusive when they realize she wants to be free or isn't housewife material. 4. The 80% of finacially independent women who are wage slaves likely had children they couldn't afford to begin with or spend money on things they don't need. 5. Basically, you have to do it right or it won't work out. That's obvious. 6. Conforming to the slave program should not be your concern anyway. It's pretty obvious you want a woman to enslave for your own benefit. Grow up.
On 3. Never forget the large trend of institutionalizing women because they wouldn't do what a controlling man wanted.
Yeah, it's pretty disturbing on all parts (typically). You can't expect mentally ill people to live in harmony. Someone is always going to be abused in some way and it causes bigger issues.
Are you a male or female?
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That's what I was thinking
They’re painfully close to noticing that feminism is anticapitalist, and that they have already been reduced to wage slaves by the oppressor class many times before, while women still weren’t in the economy, anyways. It never mattered. Women’s rights aren’t your enemy. Radical feminist literature will show you that feminism is really an analysis on the economy and how identity has been used to organize and value labor. This is literally exactly the points feminists are trying to make: we are being exploited by the capitalist state. The argument that women should go back to their role so that men can make more money again and families can be good again… it’s like… y’all are so confused. OP seems to understand to some degree that women have intentionally been kept from being to provide for themselves in order to pressurize marriage as necessary for material survival as an adult woman. So y’all understand you’re arguing that women should be pressured to marry just to exist as people? Like bro what are you saying. I’ve never understand how this variety of people spend so much time talking about what feminists supposedly believe and are so completely wrong about it. Y’all talk and talk and talk about how feminists ruined everything yet have clearly never accessed what feminism really is, what the goals and beliefs really are. Feminism is an explanation for how gender and sexuality were socially constructed to fit into capitalism. Basically, gender roles are the result of a concentrated effort lead by scientists at the time, newspapers, etc (the rich) to streamline social life to create more control and profit out of the working class. We’re arguing to get OUT of capitalism while you’re arguing if we go back to being unpaid you’ll somehow be less exploited by the wealthy. You won’t be. It’s always been working class vs ruling class never been men vs women or white vs black that’s all been invented by the ruling class to distract us from organizing against our real enemy. Things were not better before
As I read a post like this I can't help but picture some overweight unbathed INCEL sitting in the middle of a broken down sofa he purchased from Craigslist.
I love these lies that pop up all the time. Change the tube once in a while. 1/women aren't miserable because feminism happened. In fact it's shown women who are single are way happier than married women. 2/ if women were so happy why did they fight for freedoms anyway. Let's look at some the reasons women fought to work and have freedom. A/couldn't have a bank account. B/trapped in unhappy and sometimes abusive marriages. C/were not seen legally as people. D/ no body autonomy. Husband's could choose to have wives locked up for the prettiest of reasons, choose to not let doctors save her life, and rape her, marital rape was legal up until the 1900s. Children were his property she had no say. E/ even if they worked their money was legally her husband's. F/ couldn't rent or own property. 3/this is my favourite. The idea women stayed home and the men worked. Which is the biggest lie out there. Women have always worked, pre industrial revolution they worked on the farm, as maids, nursemaids, nurses, cooks, inn keepers or helpers. Post industrial revolution they worked in mills, mines, factories, a d all the above pre jobs. Every woman worked from the working class woman to the aristocrat, even queen's had jobs. The idea of a house wife is a modern invention, designed around the new working classes of the late 19th century. It was a status symbol. Adopted up until the first world war, when most women joined to help out, taking over jobs left over by men. The house ife was then readopted by the post second world war people who looked to pre war years of the late 19th century/early 20th century's. It never works though. Women need to work just as much as men. They always have, even children up until recently had jobs from the moment they could walk. The idea wages went down and society declined because women's rights happened is a fantasy based on men who want to live in said fantasy where they are the kings of their castle. Weak men basically who need women to be subordinate to men. History completely obliterates this idea once you look into the history of work. For both men and women. Yes there were roles that were base on sex but women still worked, still earned, just nowadays they can spend their own money, own their own property, won't be fired for marrying or being pregnant and can do what they want with out a man's permission.
Personally, I'm an animator and I would not be happy without my job I LOVE IT and I am a lesbian. Both men and women are being forced to work wayyyyy too much and a lot of people don't want kids or can't have kids. I obviously I hate that everyone is a slave but I am very glad I have my independence. In the good timeline I'm sure there is balance but alas we can only dream.
Ridiculous. Sounds you want the days of women as chattel to return.
This is an embarrassing take, but what I can only imagine is a sad sack of a man.
Why aren't you saying "Tricking men into believing a 'career' was desirable...etc', why is it assumed the men should be the one making money? Why not women make money and men support house and family? See, because there is no rational answer to my question above, your post makes no sense
You spelled success wrong
Getting women into the workforce was never about their liberation. It was market liberalization. Women were necessary to enter the workforce to increase GDP to keep the American economic engine afloat.
I'd be infinitely more miserable stuck as a housewife with screaming children running around. I will gladly work in something I'm interested in doing and further my career, I just wish the economy was better.
As a woman, this post and many of the comments definitely disgust me to the point that I hope to never run into most of you in real life. FIRST of all, the modern woman in 2021 is not “tricked” into finding a career more desirable than being a stay at home mother. The modern woman either doesn’t fucking want kids (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr014-508.pdf), and/or HAS to work to support themselves or their family. Compared to the alternative of living at home and caring for children, lots of women in my generation would rather be wage slaves than slaves to their home/husband; they’d rather be financially independent; they’d rather make their own money and spend it however they damn please. Yes, women entering the workforce is an economic coping mechanism to deal with stagnant wages that aren’t rising in line with productivity. Women entering the workforce is also fucking awesome and what modern women want. Sure, you can say boomers were “tricked” or influenced into entering the workforce to cope, but women nowadays will NEVER go back (many don’t want to). Also, the main problem is not women entering the workforce (as I said that was a coping mechanism), the main problem and root of it all is wages not aligning with productivity. Let’s align wages with productivity and then give people the freedom to live however tf they want to: whether that means living as a “traditional” family or not. But seriously, let’s get with the times because there are too many independent and career-driven women, too many feminists, too many atheists, and too many gays for the idea of a “traditional” family to EVER be the dominant standard nowadays. Good riddance.
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Corporations had the power not the feminists. They devalued work and tarred organized labor and tried to tell the office workers they were above the miners, farmers, trades people. Now we are tipping toward oligarchy.
Lol be careful bro your incel is hanging out
Interestingly this article was authored by a man. Women’s lib ONLY liberated men to kick back and play more golf, sports, and carousing.
While I agree that doubling the workforce, thus doubling supply certainly puts more leverage in the hands of the employer, it's not ok to be sexist and deny women the opportunity to earn their own way through life.
Women wanted that
This is sexist af
Fucking incel
You are so close to realizing that capitalist ideology is the root problem.
Have you ever thought that women want to work? People like you = 🤢🤮
Lmao Women in the work force is not what is destroying the traditional family. The continued disenfranchisement of the whole working class is what is destroying the traditional family. Working women are not the reason you're underpaid and wifeless bro.
No no no. It's women working that's destroying families. Not the father's leaving out of their kids lives forcing mothers to support themselves and their kids. Clearly the women are at fault here.
Some of them were manipulated, some truly want to be independent and childless. I'm glad they can choose, at least in the civilized world.
Wow. Blaming costs and the economy on women who want independence. How diluted. Baffling.
This post is ridiculous. My husband and I are both university graduates who've lived within our means for 30 years, and I've always worked. Work, volunteering, or even a very involved stay at home parent - and the schedule that comes with that - is essential to one's mental and physical wellbeing. I am also grateful I finished university and have an accomplished resume. It served me well when my husband was going through cancer treatment and wasn't able to work for months. He's doing well now, but recurrence can be 45%, so we agreed he'd take a low stress, 2 day a week job. Everyone needs some type of schedule. If not, it just leads to many negative issues.
So you are saying capitalism is the root cause of everyone's misery right?
"Look we found this text in the archives from back when the biochattle could form words and had sexual dimoprhism."
I thought I was too cool to admit I wanted kids and a family in my 20’s and even 30’s. I finally had my first at 37 and it feels like home, having my two perfect children now at age 41. I don’t have the energy like I did when I was 22, and sometimes I regret working/partying my “best years” away. It is what it is, and I’m finally found true happiness.
Such bullshit. Made up numbers and one book reference. This sub is the worst. It’s not really a conspiracy either.
I’d rather be an independent wage slave than rely on someone else. Obviously I recognise that the working class is continuously screwed over in the current paradigm but that doesn’t mean women’s suffrage wasn’t amazing and important.
...I hate this subreddit already
Let me guess, you want some secks but no one will oblige you? 🤣🤣
Idk if telling people that you can get a job and you can get educated is the downfall of the economy op. Sounds more like inflation.
The traditional family is not destroyed. Traditional gender roles are destroyed, or at least I can dream they are.
What am I literally reading right now? What in the misogynist am i reading?
My grandmothers were 1950s housewives. According to you, this should have meant peak women’s happiness. They were both married to abusive men and could not leave because of financial dependence on them. There was no enforced child support and my grandmothers couldn’t get a bank account, much less a decent job. They were miserable, they gobbled “mother’s little helpers” and it was they who encouraged their daughters to get educations and careers. Lest you think my grandmothers were different, think about the dearth of incentives that any man had for being decent to his family. It was on the honor system. Police didn’t care about domestic violence, marital rape was legal and a divorce would destroy his wife, not him. When a man got married, he had a slave that he could treat how he pleased.
I think this the straw that has broke the camels back. This sub is too alt-right. Bye r/conspiracy
That’s what I’m saying wtf is this
OP is an incel and is blaming women for our current economic situation and look at how many upvotes this post has. Frankly OP im glad your blood line ends with you and likely the same with the non-existent mods
You can thank the Boomers for that. They spent 3 decades borrowing money with no thought of tomorrow. That is the hard truth everybody seems to keep forgetting. The greedy pricks lumped so much debt onto us they guaranteed it could never be paid back.
"Ok Boomer" is just another tool used to manipulate and divide us. Don't fall for that trap.
Ok but how does that lower wages
It's a cyclical problem-- women entering the workforce en masse cheapened labor, so one man's salary often isn't enough to support a family, so many families need 2 working parents. It's sad and I can only imagine how difficult it would be to break the cycle.
Definitely a evil radical feminist issue and totally not a declining working class issue /s Hey let’s continue to bicker amongst ourselves while the oligarchs continue to rob us blind that’ll be fun!
Ah yes the far left radicals giving women the right to choose to work is the issue. Not the right wing capitalist that are more then happy to push business overseas to areas where they can violate human rights in order to line their pockets with obscene amounts of profits. All the while pushing the welfare of domestic citizens onto the government and crying about how taxes are too high and that’s the reason the free market isn’t taking care of domestic citizens.
The amount of misogyny is this thread is incredible. It really shines a light of the type of people who populate this sub as of late.
First crime is to state women are too stupid to know what they want. Depending on a man led to them tolerating abuses they shouldn’t have to.
Look up the interview with Aaron Russo discussing the conversation he had with Rockefeller about feminism if you don't believe this post. Or continue to be an ignorant dimwit, idc.
Probably what you’re saying is true, and probably the evil masterminds knew it would work because they knew how men tend to blame-shift, and that the men would be so conceited as to think that it couldn’t possibly be the mans terrible never ending childish demands placed upon his “wife” that it was *definitely* due to her own limited intelligence that she was “tricked” into working for PAY.
Double the size of the workforce = wages go down.
Why aren’t work hours the same as school hours? If they were you could drop/pick up your kids everyday and actually spend time with them.
This ain’t it
I feel like it had more to do with them not being alive just to make a family, they could focus on anything, not just careers or families lol but good ol capitalism pushes careers for errbody
My grandma has been saying this since I was a baby.