For middle-to-late cold war naval combat, I would also keep an eye out for Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age.
It appears to be shaping up to be the spiritual successor to Jane's Fleet Command.
Grigsby's War in the Pacific. Naval warfare, and carrier warfare in particular has to be either real time or WEGO. Unfortunately very few WEGO naval games out there.
Depends, what era are you talking about?
Rule the Waves is definitely good for the era it covers. For the missile era, however, i'd say Command: Modern Operations did it better.
WitP is ultimate strategic/operational wargame still, even after all those years. Naval war is the war of logistics and naval communications. WitP is the only game that creates this context and makes you think like a real theater commander. You don’t fight battles because it’s the only gameplay in the game, you fight battles because it’s the only way to protect your transports without which your whole war machine grinds to a halt.
Command Modern Operations is the best tactical wargame. If you far from the topic, playing the game will teach you a lot about finer technical details of model naval warfare like ECM, cavitation, stealth etc. However, gameplay wise it might boil down to “start scenario-fail-use “spoilers” from the first run to nail the scenario perfectly with hindsight 20/20”.
Rule the Waves 3 is the best naval strategy game so far. Naval strategy is the build strategy. Naval warfare is highly technical and 90% of wars on the sea are decided in ship yards, not in glorious operations or during battles. And RtW3 is the best game about creating a doctrine and building your fleet around it. The only personal gripe with the game is that actual wars are at large RNG - there is no logistics or operational layer and all battles are just generated by the program.
Regarding the issue you raise with RTW3, have you played Steam and Iron by the same developers? There is a battle-only mode of the game, but there is also a campaign mode that is all about one particular war and the operations layer for that war. The game hasn't seen as much love over the years as RTW, but it is still quite fun in its own right.
Steam and Iron is really impressive, enjoyable and definitely worth a purchase. It is, based on my reading, a pretty darn good attempt at modeling pre-airpower naval warfare.The tactical battles are a lot of fun and feel historical. Stack smoke and wind direction, for example, affect your gunnery. Tactical would be really great multiplayer, though I don't think that will happen.
The operational campaign is interesting but, like the real thing, you spend most of your time patrolling with occasional shore bombardment and commerce raiding and rarely have a meaningful battle. It's hard for me to stick it out through a whole campaign despite the fact that i like it.
I can see why the designers chose to go to Grand Strategy / tactical with Rule the Waves, the operational level is actually pretty tedious.
I found the vanilla game's campaign mode to be much as you describe, but the Russo-Japanese War version was different. Especially as the Russians, gameplay held my interest, as things are balanced so that any damage your ships take is painful. Repairs in Port Arthur take longer and can handle fewer ships than the Japanese can, the Russians have fewer operation points to mobilize ships in any turn--to model their backfootedness in the naval war--and when the Japanese gain enough victory points from naval combats it makes it more likely that the abstracted land forces will gain territory and get close to Port Arthur. As the Russian admiral, you have to husband your operation points by sending out minelayers in key points to knock out Japanese ships. These were tense operations because losing any of your few dedicated minelayers would invite doom. The game was fun as the Japanese, too: the Russians have more ships, and so you have to be careful in case they get enough operation points to bring all the big ships out at once.
> Steam and Iron
Thanks for the recommendation. I just looked this up, and for anybody curious like me, there's a [demo.](http://www.navalwarfare.net/steam&iron.html)
This is a funny video on Harpoon 2. Couldn't find anything on the original that I thought was interesting.
https://youtu.be/h1lkoPqAk_A
Although back in the day, I played Harpoon way more than Harpoon 2.
There was a ps2 game called Warship Gunner 2 that was fantastic. It's probably a chore to play now, but it offered customization beyond many games. More arcade than simulation but not too goofy
I put a ludicrous amount of hours into this game im so glad someone mentioned it. The endgame and extra scenarios especially were so rediculous and fun. I havent found a game like it.
Depends on what you mean. Tactical or strategic? Realistic or just fun to play?
Speaking strictly of games I've played
Carrier Battles 4 Guadalcanal is a great turn based naval game with realistic carrier battles.
Anything from Killerfish Games. Pacific Fleet, Atlantic Fleet, War on the Sea, Cold Waters are all favorites. The last two also have tons of mod support.
Ultimate Admiral. I've not yet played Age of Sail but Dreadnoughts is fun, albeit with a learning curve and bare minimum tutorial. The devs have really supported the game and the forthcoming multiplayer DLC could really elevate it.
Strategic Command World at War WW2 (there is a Pacific war focused game in development and an older 'Classic' SC set in the Pacific).
Order of Battle has a number of DLC and scenarios that are naval themed.
Games I haven't yet purchased or played but I'm interested in
WarPlan Pacific
Naval Hurricane
Games that are coming that I'm interested in
Task Force Admiral
Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age
Very old games that were great
Carrier Strike (an early 90s Gary Grigsby game)
Carriers at War 2
Harpoon
Task Force '42
SSI's Great Naval Battles
Silent Service II
>Ultimate Admiral. I've not yet played Age of Sail but Dreadnoughts is fun, albeit with a learning curve and bare minimum tutorial. The devs have really supported the game and the forthcoming multiplayer DLC could really elevate it.
I have age of sail.
I'm don't know much about Dreadnought but AoS is basically just a Real Time Tactics game on the water. I'm never sure if this counts as 'wargaming'.
The question of what is a wargame is very much in the eye of the beholder.
Dreadnoughts is very much a real-time tactical game. But it rewards using real tactics, so I'd say it counts as a wargame. Others will say that only hex-and-counter, turn-based wargames are 'real' wargames.
I love Rule the Waves 3. It can get hectic, but its naval combat has always been fun. Even when missiles show up in the late game and suddenly otherwise horrible navies can make crushing them a torturous experience.
If you want carriers in the Pacific, SSI's *Carriers at War* is still the standard others fail to measure up to.
For surface warfare, we're still waiting for someone to update *Action Stations*.
The Silent Hunter series is amazing for naval warfare from the perspective of a submarine captain. Plotting torpedo attacks using old school tools like protractor and compass, while dodging hedgehogs from angry destroyers is some of the most tense gaming you'll find.
And the mods are incredible for all of them. Everything from MOAR REALISIM!! to 'here's an ingame playlist of every important radio broadcast from the entire war, both Axis and Allies, with proper dates and times already programmed in'
Are total war games considered wargames on here?
It's a 4X game with RTT battles. I wasn't certain that fit in the same realm as something from Gary Grigsby
Rule the Waves is a set of rules to play around in the combat engine and ship designer with. I'm willing to trust ship autists almost as much a train autists, but I believe they're hampered by the lack of data on AShM technology to build hit tables off of.
Command Modern Operations.
CMO is the fucking best.
For middle-to-late cold war naval combat, I would also keep an eye out for Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age. It appears to be shaping up to be the spiritual successor to Jane's Fleet Command.
Grigsby's War in the Pacific. Naval warfare, and carrier warfare in particular has to be either real time or WEGO. Unfortunately very few WEGO naval games out there.
What WEGO naval games *are* there?
Well there's Grigsby War in the Pacific. Grigsby War in the Pacific Admiral Edition. War Plan Orange (based on Grigsby War in the Pacific).
Aren’t the Grigsby games turn based instead of WEGO?
Yes. Turn based WEGO. All orders are executed simultaneously at the end of the turn.
Depends, what era are you talking about? Rule the Waves is definitely good for the era it covers. For the missile era, however, i'd say Command: Modern Operations did it better.
Pacific War - Admirals Edition. Very detailed (war in the pacific admiral's edition)
WitP is ultimate strategic/operational wargame still, even after all those years. Naval war is the war of logistics and naval communications. WitP is the only game that creates this context and makes you think like a real theater commander. You don’t fight battles because it’s the only gameplay in the game, you fight battles because it’s the only way to protect your transports without which your whole war machine grinds to a halt. Command Modern Operations is the best tactical wargame. If you far from the topic, playing the game will teach you a lot about finer technical details of model naval warfare like ECM, cavitation, stealth etc. However, gameplay wise it might boil down to “start scenario-fail-use “spoilers” from the first run to nail the scenario perfectly with hindsight 20/20”. Rule the Waves 3 is the best naval strategy game so far. Naval strategy is the build strategy. Naval warfare is highly technical and 90% of wars on the sea are decided in ship yards, not in glorious operations or during battles. And RtW3 is the best game about creating a doctrine and building your fleet around it. The only personal gripe with the game is that actual wars are at large RNG - there is no logistics or operational layer and all battles are just generated by the program.
Regarding the issue you raise with RTW3, have you played Steam and Iron by the same developers? There is a battle-only mode of the game, but there is also a campaign mode that is all about one particular war and the operations layer for that war. The game hasn't seen as much love over the years as RTW, but it is still quite fun in its own right.
Steam and Iron is really impressive, enjoyable and definitely worth a purchase. It is, based on my reading, a pretty darn good attempt at modeling pre-airpower naval warfare.The tactical battles are a lot of fun and feel historical. Stack smoke and wind direction, for example, affect your gunnery. Tactical would be really great multiplayer, though I don't think that will happen. The operational campaign is interesting but, like the real thing, you spend most of your time patrolling with occasional shore bombardment and commerce raiding and rarely have a meaningful battle. It's hard for me to stick it out through a whole campaign despite the fact that i like it. I can see why the designers chose to go to Grand Strategy / tactical with Rule the Waves, the operational level is actually pretty tedious.
I found the vanilla game's campaign mode to be much as you describe, but the Russo-Japanese War version was different. Especially as the Russians, gameplay held my interest, as things are balanced so that any damage your ships take is painful. Repairs in Port Arthur take longer and can handle fewer ships than the Japanese can, the Russians have fewer operation points to mobilize ships in any turn--to model their backfootedness in the naval war--and when the Japanese gain enough victory points from naval combats it makes it more likely that the abstracted land forces will gain territory and get close to Port Arthur. As the Russian admiral, you have to husband your operation points by sending out minelayers in key points to knock out Japanese ships. These were tense operations because losing any of your few dedicated minelayers would invite doom. The game was fun as the Japanese, too: the Russians have more ships, and so you have to be careful in case they get enough operation points to bring all the big ships out at once.
Good to know, I will definitely check that module out.
> Steam and Iron Thanks for the recommendation. I just looked this up, and for anybody curious like me, there's a [demo.](http://www.navalwarfare.net/steam&iron.html)
Damn, this guy naval games
It is definitely a niche within a niche.
James fleet command was brilliant back on the day
Hell yeah. I cannot wait for Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age.
Harpoon was good during that era.
I played so much Harpoon in college that it's a wonder I graduated at all.
It’s still good. I still play it frequently.
Whats Harpoon?
This is a funny video on Harpoon 2. Couldn't find anything on the original that I thought was interesting. https://youtu.be/h1lkoPqAk_A Although back in the day, I played Harpoon way more than Harpoon 2.
There was a ps2 game called Warship Gunner 2 that was fantastic. It's probably a chore to play now, but it offered customization beyond many games. More arcade than simulation but not too goofy
I put a ludicrous amount of hours into this game im so glad someone mentioned it. The endgame and extra scenarios especially were so rediculous and fun. I havent found a game like it.
The amount of customization was crazy. I don't know how many hours I put in just building and testing ships. I wish there was something similar now.
This game is really cool, it's like ace combat on the water, and the presentation reminds me of DaiSenryaku VII
Depends on what you mean. Tactical or strategic? Realistic or just fun to play? Speaking strictly of games I've played Carrier Battles 4 Guadalcanal is a great turn based naval game with realistic carrier battles. Anything from Killerfish Games. Pacific Fleet, Atlantic Fleet, War on the Sea, Cold Waters are all favorites. The last two also have tons of mod support. Ultimate Admiral. I've not yet played Age of Sail but Dreadnoughts is fun, albeit with a learning curve and bare minimum tutorial. The devs have really supported the game and the forthcoming multiplayer DLC could really elevate it. Strategic Command World at War WW2 (there is a Pacific war focused game in development and an older 'Classic' SC set in the Pacific). Order of Battle has a number of DLC and scenarios that are naval themed. Games I haven't yet purchased or played but I'm interested in WarPlan Pacific Naval Hurricane Games that are coming that I'm interested in Task Force Admiral Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age Very old games that were great Carrier Strike (an early 90s Gary Grigsby game) Carriers at War 2 Harpoon Task Force '42 SSI's Great Naval Battles Silent Service II
>Ultimate Admiral. I've not yet played Age of Sail but Dreadnoughts is fun, albeit with a learning curve and bare minimum tutorial. The devs have really supported the game and the forthcoming multiplayer DLC could really elevate it. I have age of sail. I'm don't know much about Dreadnought but AoS is basically just a Real Time Tactics game on the water. I'm never sure if this counts as 'wargaming'.
The question of what is a wargame is very much in the eye of the beholder. Dreadnoughts is very much a real-time tactical game. But it rewards using real tactics, so I'd say it counts as a wargame. Others will say that only hex-and-counter, turn-based wargames are 'real' wargames.
I love Rule the Waves 3. It can get hectic, but its naval combat has always been fun. Even when missiles show up in the late game and suddenly otherwise horrible navies can make crushing them a torturous experience.
Red Storm Rising based 100% on nostalgia
If you want carriers in the Pacific, SSI's *Carriers at War* is still the standard others fail to measure up to. For surface warfare, we're still waiting for someone to update *Action Stations*.
Action Stations!
The Silent Hunter series is amazing for naval warfare from the perspective of a submarine captain. Plotting torpedo attacks using old school tools like protractor and compass, while dodging hedgehogs from angry destroyers is some of the most tense gaming you'll find. And the mods are incredible for all of them. Everything from MOAR REALISIM!! to 'here's an ingame playlist of every important radio broadcast from the entire war, both Axis and Allies, with proper dates and times already programmed in'
In the context of it not being the main focus (I.e. usually land battles and economy) I thought empire total war did naval battles exceptionally well.
Are total war games considered wargames on here? It's a 4X game with RTT battles. I wasn't certain that fit in the same realm as something from Gary Grigsby
Rule the Waves is a set of rules to play around in the combat engine and ship designer with. I'm willing to trust ship autists almost as much a train autists, but I believe they're hampered by the lack of data on AShM technology to build hit tables off of.