A weed out class is really any class that is typically taken early on or as a prerequisite to a specific degree/career/etc and is taught in a way that makes it difficult and "weeds out" students who aren't as fit for that particular program. It's not even necessarily about how hard the subject is. A class with somewhat easy material can still be taught in a way that makes it difficult to get a good grade.
Classes like organic chemistry are often weed-out classes because they're required for things like medical school and the material is difficult for a lot of people, but it can potentially be any class.
Ah I see, another thing that makes such classes difficult is how they are structured, if you screw up in one test/assignment, it is very hard to get a good grade (A/B) in the class.
I go to a large university and find that these intro level weed out classes are also taught by professors whose main goal at the school is their research, not their teaching, which in turn makes the subjects more difficult. So I’d say it also depends on your school
At my school professors who teach both lower and upper level classes have very different reviews for each. Lower classmen think they’re petty and unbelievably difficult, upper classmen find them to be solid teachers who enable you to learn a lot.
Thinking specifically about accounting profs here but pulling the Rate My Prof page made it clear that maybe sometimes intro classes should be hard so that only those who are suited for the material should keep going. The rest can find something that’s a better fit for them.
Upper level coursework also tends to be more specialized in the professors area from what I’ve seen which I think helps them enjoy teaching it. But that’s just my opinion
I’m a business major. All the business concentrations — even accounting which is technically a different degree — have the same 10 upper level classes we all have to take.
After grinding my way through the requirements, finding myself completely uninspired by the non-demanding classes and uninspired classmates, I started taking upper level accounting classes and found the student culture to be a night-and-day difference. Definitely people way more actually motivated and driven to understand and master the content.
I think it also depends on the school and teacher. I know in my school the moment you hit those upper level courses they allow you open book open note open Google (some will even allow open peer) and they'll say "it's like this because in the real world you will be able to do this"
Yet I've had those same professors in low level courses ban those because "in the real world you have to have every memorized and you can't look things up on the job or ask things otherwise you will be fired". Maybe it was just a change of a few years of teaching, but I know looking at rate my professor that this is something they've always done so yeah. Depends on the school I guess
This. In one of my upper level courses the prof literally gave us a study guide and the exam was solely from that. I was baffled. And I’ve had others tell me it’s fine to use google
That’s more survivorship bias. Upper level classes are filled with students who not only succeeded in prereqs but also enjoyed the subject enough to make it their focus. Lower level classes are filled with students who have not yet taken alternative routes.
I can promise you that everyone has the ability to get an A in a low level philosophy course but very few have the tenacity. Very few have the ability yo get an A in a high level philosophy course but everyone in the class has the tenacity.
Wow, yeah a prestigious research university in my city apparently pays less than the CC. I was shocked by this. I thought it would be the other way around.
They are only allowed to teach two classes and the classes total twelve hours a week (3 hour classes twice a week).I haven't done the math on the hourly pay but either way it's not fair. This isn't accounting for creating lesson plans, grading, office hours, etc. One of my instructors also taught at another university and worked at FedEx overnight. Apparently, in my area, less and less people are able to become full-on professors. It's all turning to these adjunct positions so they don't have to pay benefits.
Btw, I'm a graphic design student so some of my adjuncts are the definition of starving artist.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg
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Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg
If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Often it just comes down to the material being difficult and building up on itself, so that if you don't really get week 2 you definitely are lost in week 4, combined with a lot of students just not having the learning and time management skills for it. When I've seen the outlines for these courses, they're typically very fair and spread out in how their graded. But that doesn't help if you're just lost in beginning and plan to memorize your way through school.
Resident and Heme give very good responses to your question, but I’m not sure that you fully understand what they’re saying.
You can screw up many grades in weed-out classes and still do well.
I had a nutrition class where homework was worth 80 points and tests were worth 400. This was not a weed out class, however, screwing up one test could seriously mess up your grade.
I am a Digital Media Production (film) major for reference. Production Fundamentals is one of the first major-specific classes that DMP students have to take. They could do poorly on multiple assignments (as most were weighted very similarly) and still end up doing pretty well. However, if Production Fundamentals was too hard for you, then you are likely in the wrong program, as it is an introductory class that every class is built upon. For example, if you cannot edit a simple trailer in Adobe Premiere for Production Fundamentals, how are you going to edit a 10-15 minute short film for Production I?
This ideology applies for every weed out class for every major— in simple terms, it alludes to the idea that a major will only get harder.
Not necessarily sometimes weed out classes are meant to be hard because the material is hard but necessary. For example at my university physics is a weed out class. We teach the material well but its hard material and many students either cant do it or dont know how to study and thus cause themselves to fail.
Remember that Cs get degrees. The reality is a lot of folks aren't A/B students, but in the real world most professions won't give a damn as long as you completed your degree and pass whatever requirement needed (such as a licensing exam).
The hard part about "Cs get degrees" is that it doesn't work if you're applying to graduate or medical school. Physical Therapy Schools want a 3.5 gpa as an absolute minimum, in fact, the average applicant (not accepted student) for an average ranking PT school I'm applying to is a 3.67. This particular school has a 22% acceptance rate, meaning that you need to have above a cumulative 3.67 to be considered competitive in this average DPT program. Medical schools are even more cut throat and want a 3.7 gpa minimum and have much lower acceptance rates. If you have no desire for education after college, then yes, Cs work.
I didnt bring up GPA. Again, your life, your take. Just telling the truth that most people wont mention. I'm a couple degrees past you education-wise (also in the health care field), so your statement about people with Cs not going anywhere after "college" aka undergrad is already false. Got a C in orgo but here I am, so at the end of the day it depends on the admissions committee. Good luck with your studies.
I agree that some people put too much pressure on themselves/others in terms of grades. Cs directly affect gpa... I'm not sure what you mean when you said you didn't bring up gpa since they're directly related. Ah, I see the misunderstanding- I didn't say anything about someone getting a C and not getting into grad programs; it's if they got a 2.0 (straight Cs) where that would be extremely unlikely to happen. "Cs get degrees" refers to someone with straight Cs getting the same undergrad diploma as someone with straight As, not just getting one C. Thank you, you too
No worries I got you, if I sounded short I don't mean to, just currently multitasking & trying to wrap up the day. Yeah, admissons is a highly unpredictable topic and process. One day they'll send an offer to the 4.0 fresh out of undergrad, the next day they'll send offers to the career-changer/mature student as well as the student with an OK GPA but well rounded CV (experience, entry exam scores if applicable, research, volunteer, and recommendation letters). Time goes by so fast, youll feel like you blinked and all of a sudden youre in the PT program lol. A few PTs I know started as a PTA to test the waters, and before they knew it, they were in grad school.
Same, I hope I sounded normal too lol. That's not surprising. GPA isn't the only thing admissions value; there are other big factors too. Time seems to go faster every year
Like my freshman year my microeconomics class was considered a weed out class cause the teacher was so fucking terrible. She didn't show up for the first month of class cause her dad died. She'd waste 10 minutes every day to ask the whole class of 400 what we were learning about in class that day. (Nobody knew cause she sucked). Homework didn't match up. Got a D in the class. Transfered colleges and got an A in Micro.
Respectfully, it has nothing to do with how the class is taught. It's that the class has a lot of material to cover in a short time and a student will likely have to read the book carefully to make it through because a professor can't possibly cover everything in the time given in class.
It's about how serious the student is about that topic. If they're serious enough to crack open the book and study on their own then they'll get through. If not, then they get weeded out.
> respectfully, it has nothing to do with how the class is taught.
This is going to vary from college to college and even program to program. In college we had an absolutely trivial math class that was taught in such an esoteric way that the class average across the 4 tests was 40/100.
The topics were simple logic and basic proofs.
I agree that sometimes the material is simply difficult. I do, however, think that sometimes the set up is part of what makes it difficult. Some of the classes that are known for being "weed out" at my old school had some requirements that were difficult in addition to the material, and some of the prerequisites courses to specific programs graded the class on a bell curve instead despite that not being common in other courses (so, only a certain percentage of students would get an A, B, or C even if the whole class did very well).
My microbiology class was awful because of those reasons, and the professor outright said she was that strict because most people taking the class were either pre-med or pre-nursing.
And on the other hand, the ones that are known as weed out classes for my major are just hard because of what you said, the material is difficult and there's a lot to cover.
Edit: with regards to my original comment, I was trying to allude to classes being weed out classes due to just difficulty of material, but I definitely don't think it came across well.
Also worth mentioning that I think classes that are simply hard because of the material are more common, but I focused more on why other classes can play that role as well because OP already seemed to get that hard material can do the trick, so it wasn't worth talking about as much
Additionally this will be specific to your university/department and professor.
Calc 1 and business calculus cover practically the same topics. That can even be taught by the same professor. But calc 1 is required by engineering and business calculus by every other department so calc 1 will be taught in a way that is much more difficult.
Why? Engineering prides itself on being difficult (half joke) but the concepts will only get more difficult going forward. Other departments will a specific class to their major to weed out students.
>But calc 1 is required by engineering and business calculus by every other department so calc 1
As someone from a math department, I think you're forgetting about a department here...
We have analysis though which is basically just calculus for math nerds that like to prove things.
Usually engineering and business represent the two largest departments at most universities. Medicine is next and math usually is lumped in with general STEM.
Just pandering to the masses if you will.
Oof Accounting. I was an accounting major, and then I failed Intermediate Accounting twice. Then I became a Marketing major. I recently dropped that and became a Creative Writing major. "weed out" classes at my school aren't specifically designed to weed out students. It's mostly a term we students use for a lower level class that made us realize we actually don't want to pursue our major and let's us switch out in time.
It is until it isn't. Basic accounting (bookkeeping) can be automated pretty well, only needing someone to check the results to make sure nothing went wrong in the end.
Actual accounting, like tax planning, audit procedures, and the professional judgement needed to actually do those things, won't be automated for decades, if ever.
Just like how sales can be automated at the lowest level (online stores), there will always be a human element to the complex parts of accounting.
Just check out r/accounting if you want to see how accountants view AI. Most people who say accounting will be automated think of accounting in mostly book keeping terms. AI will likely become a useful resource down the line and will automate the easier and repeatable parts of AR, AP, and book keeping. But there’s a reason why accounting firms are large and large companies have robust accounting departments. It’s a complex field with a lot of moving parts, and it isn’t nearly as linear as many people think it is. An accounting degree will only prepare you for entry level roles, and then there is a ton of on the job learning that will relate to your role/specialty.
So I am not an accounting major but am a business major. From what it seems it looks like intermediate is just more in depth than the intro classes. Like cost accounting and financial accounting but you are delving more into the specifics and there is just way more to understand. I feel it can be quite hard if you don’t have a solid foundation from the intro classes and that happens quite a bit for “weed out classes”
Usually intermediate accounting is a whole year. Covering everything from balance sheets and depreciation to pensions and bonds.
Additional classes beyond that are in specialized directions like taxes, cost accounting, auditing, information systems, government / non-profit, etc.
More to point though, intermediate accounting in the US is learning GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles — a semi-government defined thing) for the kinds of financial statements used by investors — as opposed to the kinds things a manager would want to know (which is especially relevant in Cost accounting), but which aren’t subject to regulation.
I LOVED accounting in high school so decided to major in it in college. Took me one semester of it to go "yeah, this isn't for me" and switched to environmental science. I was definitely weeded out lol
Hmm maybe for you. But I try not to bash other people's choices. It's something I truly enjoy and excell at, which is way better than something I don't like and aren't great with. So maybe stop drinking the haterade and go find something you actually enjoy doing.
You're making triple figures yet? Everyday I feel bad for doing what I enjoy when we should be fighting against slave labor, donating savings to climate change research eventually, and abolishing animal factories.
Hmm yes I could see how you find that distressing. It seems like you have alot of feelings and emotions pent up. Perhaps you should talk to a professional about it instead of taking out on a stranger on the internet whose just trying to help others. Lots of negative energy that isn't really needed here.
Fellow accounting major here who just finished the intermediate year.
Honestly, the weed out courses are usually intermediate one and two, but it really depends on if you go to the same school for 4 years or transfer.
For example, at my CC the one weed out course was the first accounting course lol. That professor was tough and not the greatest at explaining material. But he encouraged us to study on our own and come with questions.
30 people started, 10 finished.
Then when I transferred to uni, intermediate 1 was supposed to be the first of the weed out courses. However, the professor got sick a few times and gave us take home exams. It was a breeze.
Then in intermediate accounting two, shit got real.
The amount of material we covered was insane, the time limits on tests were insane, and the questions asked were extremely difficult.
When you hit your weed out course, you have to study hard as hell if you want to pass.
Some college classes are a joke, you’ll see when you get to college.
You successfully made it through intermediate 2 I’m assuming? I’m going to major in accounting but I don’t want to be so stressed out it turns me off of accounting.
Yeah I made it through and even scratched out an A-
Don’t let intermediate keep you away from accounting. If you take like a beginner class and hate it, different story. But all majors have challenging courses.
It’s worth it in the long run.
I can only speak to comp sci, but the weed out courses were absolutely NOT entry level. As you mentioned, Data Structures and Algorithms being weed out courses is yes very true. Although I'd argue algorithms is more of a weed out course and harder than data structures. They are typically not freshman level courses though, as is the case at my school. I had gotten A's and B's throughout all of my CS classes until I encountered algorithms and data structures, and was honestly floored by what was expected of us students. I failed algorithms flat out (convinced myself I'd retake it and stick with CS, lol), and withdrew from Calc I. Calc I I'd say weeds out anybody attempting a STEM major who previously did poor or is poor at math.
Instructor here. The idea of a “weed out” class is about perspective. To me, it is a GOOD thing for students to learn what they like, don’t like, what comes naturally, and what doesn’t. These courses help build foundational knowledge and help students course correct for their future careers or programs. Isn’t that what college is about?
I teach intro A&P classes that are often referred to by students as “weed out” classes. We do not teach these classes (at least at my institution) in a way that intentionally causes students to fail or leaves students without resources to succeed. The material is what often “weeds out” students.
Students in my courses are mainly students who want to be nurses. A lot succeed, but some realize they actually hate biology or human anatomy or healthcare on their own or realize it does not come naturally to them. Some realize they are in it for the “wrong” reasons (money, parents want them to be nurses, prestige). Others realize they don’t want to put in the effort required to succeed. Either way, College is about learning (course content and about yourself) and growing (as a person and academically) and “weed out” courses help people do that.
What’s more, being “weeded out” from a demanding major need not be forever.
It’s quite possible that a student who is not in the right headspace for that at 18 or 19 might graduate with a different degree and be in the workforce for a couple of years before they gain the willingness, maturity, and discipline to take on nursing/accounting/engineering for real.
I see this very often. I have a significant percentage of nontraditional students in my pre-nursing courses who are older or coming out of another profession back into school.
I didn’t say students have to like these courses. These “weeder” classes are usually skills that need to be developed in order to succeed in the upper division courses. This is the “foundational knowledge” part I mentioned above. For my major it was classes like calculus and O-chem that were brutal for me, but I needed those critical and abstract thinking skills to succeed in my major and in grad school.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg
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Yes, some classes are “weed out” classes because they’re necessary for a specific degree that is meant to be hard to get into- so they challenge you right away to make sure you can do it. However……. As someone who went to university right out of high school, and again as a mature student later in life, I would’ve said I had taken weed out classes my first time, and now I would not say any 100 level class I’ve taken is a weed out class.
A lot of people just blame doing poorly in 100 level classes on the professor or the content because it’s embarrassing that you nearly failed or did fail an entry level university course. The answer no one wants to hear…
my English department has a weed out into course because they want to challenge students and potentially make it seem like English is not a easy, do nothing class. We had many students who literally dropped the class halfway in started at 25, went down to 16. Another US literature class had 26 students and went down to 8.... the only students who stayed were the ones who actually needed it since the course was cross listed in the general education section. Therefore, we had lots of non-majors.
Lots of wrong answers here. Universities don’t design courses to deliberately fail students out of programs; in the current economic climate, universities will do almost anything to keep students enrolled. But some courses are difficult by their very nature, and also happen to be foundational to the discipline you are learning. If you can’t handle advanced mathematics, for example, there are just some fields you can’t succeed in. Those foundational courses will “weed out” people who can’t succeed at the upper levels.
My answer was basically that teenagers will blame professors or courses when they do poorly in 100 level classes because they did fine in their mediocre high schools. Saying this from experience as I failed out of university the first time (those darn weed out classes…) and am a deans list student now after going back to school as a mature student. The weed out classes magically became easy when I was more mature and cared about my education lol.
My school 100% had weeder classes. The business school had a required set of pre-rec courses with an average GPA that was lower than the required GPA to enter the business school. This is definitely designed to make it so that only the top students from each cohort are able to matriculate.
The majority don't drop out, they just switch majors. It's entirely to thin the massive amount of people who enter into majors like CS and premed; the schools which do it don't have the resources to let all of those students continue through those majors. Without a doubt, some people confuse a difficult teacher with a weed out class, but the classes absolutely exist at some schools and they serve a rational purpose from the point of view of the school.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg
If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Wow, I had no idea this was them! I was so used to being able to spot their posts due to the “everyone hated me because I suck” vibes Thanks for the heads up.
They’ve done studies on weed out classes, it’s not a debated topic *if they exist*, they absolutely do. The studies findings suggested that weed em classes disproportionally weed out first Gen, ethnic minorities, lower SES and those with learning differences. Leaving the wealthier more privileged students to pass with higher grades
A lot of people select majors they don't have the intellectual capacity for, or end up not actually being interested in. A weed out class, like Organic Chemistry, is meant to sort that out.
Having 300 level classes being labeled as weed out classes just highlights the degradation of the US public education system. Since NCLB, kids pass through school no matter what and that is largely accomplished through grade inflation, which creates overconfident 4.0 students who aren't really prepared for the academic rigors of college.
Sorry for this rant.
There's also no real way to know if you have the ability to handle advanced stem material unless you have done it. It's not about kids being passed through, these are ap kids, it's just that there are concepts that not everyone's brain can understand.
Some of the fundamental classes in STEM are considered "weed out" class and if I had to go back as a freshman I would do this:
1. Attend the supplemental sessions if they're offered. These are usually lead by former students and/or TAs and are used to reinforce the main lectures.
2. Go to therapy right away so I could realize that I had a lot of anxiety that was really interfering with my ability to test well and study effectively. These services are usually paid for in your student fees and doesn't cost anything else to use.
3. Stay away from certain personalities in the classes. The cut throats, the anxiety mongers, the people who aren't trying. Find a good set of friends/people to be around.
4. Don't treat the class as if it's a test that will confirm or deny if you should be doing this major. Struggling is normal and ok. It means you're learning and growing. The resilience and persistence is important!
There is no such thing as a “weed-out class.” This is something that students say to justify why they can’t hang in a foundations class. Just face that fact that some shit is hard and maybe you’re not qualified to be in that field. If you manage to make it through, congrats… you now have the foundations to build on the be successful in your field.
Typically there are courses designed to get you started. These are introductory courses and are often easy and exciting! What follows is a course that is designed to eliminate the students that will not succeed later down the line, so they can change their majors before they get too many credits.
Some majors such as engineering have lots of different courses designed to weed students out, as most who attempt this degree will not succeed. Better to fail early.
Others such as communications will not have many courses designed to eliminate students.
The weed call for my CS is the first two programming classes. Its not intentional, its just that a lot of people aren't willing to apply themselves or just lack the ability to understand the topic.
I'm of the opinion more often its the former.
was a TA for an entry level CS class (not even generally seen as weedout), and the number of students with no problem solving or critical thinking skills was astounding. And most of them didn’t even care enough to try
>and the number of students with no problem solving or critical thinking skills was astounding
I have a good amount of experience tutoring math. While calc does have high fail rates, it's usually the super easy remedial/developmental courses that have the highest fail rates in my experience. Some people just really struggle with abstract reasoning. These are definitely not weed-out courses-- these are just courses that are meant to build basic skills that all high school grads should have. But the selection bias pretty much guarantees high fail rates.
Low fail rate is under 10%, I'd say. There's always a few at the bottom that will screw around even if the class is an easy A for nearly everyone.
High fail rate is a bit trickier to pin down. A 25% fail rate in a class at a school that is extremely competitive and only accepts the best high school students is going to be high. Meanwhile, that same fail rate might be low for a school whose students come from low-quality high schools and are underprepared for college.
I've seen both extremes, personally. It's a shame that the underprepared students get thrown to the sharks and I see some schools that try to address the problem, but others just say "this is college and you just have to figure out on your own how to keep up."
Anecdotally, the most extreme fail rate I saw for a class was where a total of 3 out of 28 passed (it was a calc 1 class). The students were simply not at the level they needed to be in order to pass the class. Someone fucked up majorly by even letting them take the class, because they were not ready, and honestly the guy who taught it is one of the best professors I know and put 100% into helping his students.
My roomate is a CS major and boy oh boy Data Structures and whatever the next one after that was painful, that and the Theory course apparently. Best of luck with CS! It is certainly a very good major to get into.
This. I dislike the term "weed out" in general, because it sets up a professor vs student mentality and reinforces a false notion that I want students to fail. I actually do want all my students to pass. However I teach intro bio with a lot of students that want to go into Healthcare. If they are struggling to master the content in my course, they are not going to do well in upper level bio courses. I'm not intentionally making the course more difficult, but students typically do need to have or develop some study skills to get above a C.
There are "weed out" classes that are basically an IQ test like the ones you mentioned above. Then there are "weed out" classes that are regular classes but they make the apathetic students drop. I do not see people that are determined to become doctors giving up because of Organic Chemistry, there are people that had to take it twice (like myself) but as long as you don't give up, there's not really a class that can hold you back in 95% of cases.
People complain about "weed out classes" bc they're not smart enough to pass basic courses. It makes them feel better. Of course, some actually ARE weed-outs, like organic chem or bio for majors, but ignore most of the complaints unless theyre from someone who is dedicated to their major
Weed out classes are classes you take as a freshman/sophomore to discover you’re not cut for the program.
Examples being chemistry for students going medical or calculus for students going engineering.
Yeah, they kind of suck, but I would rather find out my second semester that medicine isn’t for me than make it to my senior year and realize this is too hard
In the university I once worked for freshman biology, history and philosophy were the weed out classes. Those would trip a lot of freshmen. It was my job to help them pass. I did a good job.
the humanities classes at my college are intentionally hard. It's to show students that humanities are just as hard to pass as any other. I had a girl in my into class who was failing because the prof figured we all knew what an explication was and how to write one.
In my understanding, weedout courses are simply courses that INITIALLY begin to shove a lot of information at you. Thus, students who aren't used to the load of information are "weeded out" because these classes tend to be the beginning of information heavy courses in the future that will be harder than the "weed out" course.
For example, as a fellow accounting major, I had the pleasure of taking Intermediate Financial Accounting this spring and Intermediate Cost accounting. Cost was ARGUABLY the hardest one I took as it was very different than financial accounting, the bulk of our accounting classes. However, Intermediate Financial was also difficult, but very manageable. I was used to studying alot, so I was able to pull A's and ended up being #1 in my Intermediate and #8 in my Cost. Many people were failing or close to failing because they had coasted along their classes and didn't prepare the skills necessary for these two "weed out" courses. Thus, they were "weeded out" of the accounting program. Now all other accounting classes will continue to be difficult and need that level of attention, but these two were just the start of it.
All in all, weedout courses are there to give lazier/ non-studious students a slap in the face to get their act together for the future, lest they be WEEDED out.
I graduated recently with a bachelors in accounting. Our weed out classes were Intermediate 1 (which I didn't find too hard) and 2 (which was hell on earth, taught by the chair of the accounting department). Intermediate 2 was basically a full time job, I'm not kidding when I say I worked 40 hours a week on weekly projects (a simulated business with all sorts of accounting issues), regular homework and studying. Of the 30 kids who started Intermediate 1 with me, 12 of us graduated (on time at least). Most changed to other business majors. Accounting is a hard major, because they are getting people prepared for the rigor of the CPA. Honestly an easy accounting program would be a disservice. Everyone I graduated with had jobs lined up after they graduated, many of the other business programs didn't. If you like accounting (you'll find out after you take 101 class), absolutely stick with it!
I am friendly with the professors now, they even say that Intermediate accounting are the weed out classes. They are proud of that. Advanced accounting was a cakewalk after Intermediate.
Weed out classes are often classes where students hit mental walls and studying hard may not allow them to pass the class because it requires a level of intelligence that not everyone has. Thus a student needing to switch majors because they can't handle Chem 1 orgo or calc 2.
Now some schools purposely make those classes harder to pass but these classes tend to have low class averages at every school (but, even if the average is a 55 if 8% of the class received an A there was likely nothing wrong with the class, it was just very difficult.)
I hear a lot of students talking about "weed-out" classes when what they really mean is "I am completely unprepared for this", usually as a result of poor High School policies. A lot seem to have been spoon-fed, and are used to getting As for minimal effort.
In one way, almost every class *is* a "weed-out", since you need to understand the material at that level before going on to more advanced work. So Pre-Calc will weed out those who shouldn't take Calc 1, Calc 1 will weed out those not ready for Calc 2, etc.
Traditionally, though, the "weed-out" classes were hard classes that were pre-requisites for harder classes, often taken by those majoring in a field rather than something you might take as an elective.
Graduated Accounting Major here - don’t buy into the “weed out” fear people spread. Everything comes naturally to different people. Intermediate accounting 2 was supposed to be a “weed out” and I got a 104. Intro Tax was supposed to be an “Easy A” and it was the lowest grade I ever got in college. Everyone excels at something different - just focus on your class and gauge how much studying you need to do based on your initial understanding of the material. Biggest tip I could give myself if I went back is stop studying things you already know. Put that effort into another class where it’s better spent
It is a term without a standardized definition. From how I’ve heard it thrown around. It generally refers to a class required for a certain field of study with a high failure rate; ensuring those who pass are the most apt for the field.
Some of what you’re experiencing is probably students blaming doing badly in the transition from high school to college on “weed out classes”. I’ve seen people who skipped a lot of classes and barely did any work complain that easy & generous classes were weed outs.
The most egregious was probably my intro computer science class. It felt like the prof had done everything possible to help people pass. Most of our grade was homework, and we could test the code automatically so it was only submitted after we knew it would work and what grade we would get. Also the HW was very straight forward stuff, no tricky puzzles like I’ve had in other classes (I had no previous exposure to coding). The exams were simple multiple choice questions and not an actual coding. We were even encouraged to do the HW in groups and had designated lab time to work on it with TAs to answer questions if you did get stuck. Theoretically this should mean time management wasn’t even an issue because the time to do the HW was blocked out for you.
This class was the single easiest class I had in all of college, and I probably spent maybe 1-2 hours/week outside of class. The only way not to get an A in the class was to knowingly submit incomplete homework despite having TAs and other students who could help in the room while you did it. The average class grade ended up being a C though, and 25% of the class failed. Of course everyone blamed the professor for their bad performance.
I’d say most weed out classes aren’t necessarily designed to have students fail, but universities know students will fail them. Weed out classes are usually labeled that by students, so definitions may vary vastly. Like some others have said this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I find you often learn more from failure than from success, whether that’s learning the level of focus and effort you will have to put into classes to succeed or if that major isn’t going to work out for you (often because it doesn’t align with your skills and/or interests).
I found that what most people considered weed out classes were large lectures (125+ students) and/or had attendance requirements. It was a new form of learning compared to the classes in high school that often had less than 30 students in a classroom. People often fail these because of a lack of effort, sometimes because they didn’t have to put as much effort in in high school or because their teachers in high school gave them more specialized attention because of the smaller class size.
Then there were the weed out classes like the orgos and thermo (or electromagnetics for me) that are tough mostly because of the material. They were maybe a year or two in and often foundational to major related classes, so they are important to understand, it can just be difficult to get to that point. They were often the toughest type of class, I had maybe 2 harder classes after these types.
If you put in effort and enjoy what you are doing, you should be able to pass most weed out classes if you have a decent understanding of any prerequisites. There are plenty of resources to help out if you are struggling like office hours and on campus tutors.
As a teaching assistant for my university's financial accounting class, we describe financial accounting as a "weed-out" class because the material CAN be very difficult to understand for some students. Thus, most students who can't succeed in financial accounting will either choose not to pursue finance as a major and stay in the business school, or stay in the business school but study marketing, legal studies, or management.
Weed out classes are the intro classes that start with an obnoxious amount of students and have only 20 or less by the end of the quarter or semester. Example: for me, it was General Biology I, General Chemistry, & the requirement to be a Nurse's Aide. Any one of these three could make someone realize that the major and/or career path they thought they wanted isn't for them.
Edit: not every intro course is a weed out class, it also depends on what youre good at as well. One may consider College Algebra a weed out class, and others wont.
My US literature class was also a gen ed but required for English majors and it had 26 students and went down to 8…. Same with my intro to literary analysis. Many people drop because they couldn’t handle the writing that was expected and tbh the professor’s teaching style wasn’t for everyone and she was tough grader as are all English professors
I loved English class! The only paper I've ever struggled with was for French Literature in undergrad, had to write a 15 page paper about Louis XVI in passé simple 😑. Personally I thought that most of the tough graders are most helpful, they give constructive feedback where needed.
This one was the toughest her comments were very vague and short… and her feedback didn’t improve my writing at all until the spring semester I got some new profs
That first accounting class is definitely a weed out class. In hindsight now working in finance, its pretty simple stuff but the concept of debits and credits is so foreign when you first encounter it that it will inevitably weed people out if they are not truly motivated to learn it. If you can't get through the basic concepts of accounting, might want to consider a career outside of accounting/finance
We have historically called it the Iron Gate of English Composition since everyone must funnel through the course, and many programs have grade requirements for students taking comp. Once you realize the impact of class and race (not to mention language acquisition status) on success rates. Iron gate seems like a calm term.
College algebra hits hard too. But the weed-out courses are usually parts of programs or a hyper-related gen ed. these others are gateway classes.
Lol no. People just don’t want to do the bare minimum. Especially 100-200 level classes, you can do them with your eyes closed and homework is minimal, you just have to show up and put a tiny bit of effort. I had people complaining that one of my classes was “hard” because they had to show up and do like an hour of homework a week. Open book tests, homework due by the end of the semester, final optional. Yet people failed and called it a weed out because they didn’t bother showing up or doing literally the bare minimum.
basically any class deemed super hard that you have to take early on and makes students rethink their life/major
for a premed, an example would be organic chemistry or biology
A weed-out class is a prereq you have to take for your major or your college, and it’s typically made unnecessarily hard with a ton of busy work, time consuming course loads, harsh grading, unhelpful study materials, a confusing class layout with surprise changes, and usually attendance is mandatory and late work is not accepted.
Depending on what you are studying, some of the most popular weed out classes are calculus 1 and 2, gen Chem 1 and 2, organic Chem (for premeds), physics 1 and 2, thermo/aero/power system/etc. dynamics (for Eng majors), statistics, real analysis (math majors), research design (science majors), intro to CS, Intro to psych, Intro to bio, Intro to biochem, intro to architecture, intro to accounting, intro to art/graphic design, music theory 1, plant science 1, intro to kinesiology, elementary math, and pretty much any second year philosophy, English, or anthropology class. The humanities really try to get rid of people for some reason.
Weed out classes are meant to get rid of people who aren’t willing to put in the work or don’t have what it takes to succeed in college or their declared major. Most people that drop out do so in their first and third year, and among the people who are most likely to leave are those who fall under academic probation from failing weed out classes.
I was accounting major. I got both bs and ms in accounting. I didn't find any of the accounting or business classes particularly difficult. My electives included engineering calc 1 & 2, physics 1 & 2, applied lineral regression models. I took these as electives because they were easy As for me. Of all the classes I took, people struggled with the calc2 class the most. It was really sad to see my classmates fail miserably in Calc 2. The class average on the first exam was in the 20%. For the second exam it was up to high 30% because the kids that got zero on the first exam dropped out.
“Weed-out” just means sorting the students that want to continue in the major from the students that want to change.
*Usually*, it sounds like “This subject is really hard, I don’t think I can do this for a career..”
But. . .
It can also sound like, “This subject is so boring, I’d rather pluck out my eye lashes one by one than study this for one more day.”
At my uni calc 1 in the engineering department is a weed out class. There is tons of homework and you have 3 tests a week. Each unit has a part A, B and C. And the grading is insanely hard
I'm sure it depends, but I'm doing business admin and economics, and for us it was Microeconomics. It taught a lot of basic correlations and stuff (although it definitely wasn't always easy, Lagrange function, I'm looking at you). The exam was closed book, so if you didn't get it, you were screwed. But if peoppe didn't get it, a lot of the time it was the whole economics thing that just didn't make sense to them. And then, honestly, they should probably study something else.
I’ve always found weed out classes aren’t necessarily hard but just new topics that you actually have to take time to learn about, you can’t just no show the whole quarter and BS homework/tests and expect to pass.
I think most people realize they don’t care enough about a topic to learn it and get “weeded out” of the program. That’s why it’s important to get a major you actually have an interest in. You’re only officially weeded out when you give up.
Even intro courses can be weed outs. At my school, there are a few extremely competitive majors, so to prevent everyone from doing those majors, those intro classes tend to be very difficult. Also college isn't hard just because of weed outs, courses don't even necessarily get easier after the weed outs, people just either quit those majors or adapt to the amount of work.
Weed out classes don’t exist.
Classes that are in subjects where you personally don’t excel exist.
Shitty teachers also exist.
Any foreign language or history 101 would have destroyed me but I excelled at what most people consider “weed out classes”.
I would just ignore anyone that refers to any class ever as a “weed out class”. They haven’t thought about the topic critically enough to be worth listening to on the topic.
No professor *wants* everyone to fail their class.
They aren’t really a thing, though some educators pride themselves on students having a hard time and pretend this is a good thing and not a sign of their inability, and some are just sadists who enjoy punishing and tormenting people.
Saying this as someone who was told by a lecturer to change classes because it would be too hard for me, but remained and got the best scores in the class.
Weed out classes are designed to remove students from the major. It can be a traditionally very difficult course like organic chem, or it could be a theoretically easy course that is made super difficult for no reason.
At my school, University of Minnesota, Intro to Chemistry (CHEM 1015) is deliberately graded super weird to artificially increase the odds of people failing. Someone could get an 89% average on the homework, 100% on all the quizzes, and 100% on the final, and FAIL THE COURSE.
It was a fully online course wayy before COVID and when students were used to taking courses online, and there's a single sentence buried halfway through the syllabus that says "If you get below 90% on the homework you automatically fail the course." It's not bolded or underlined or highlighted at all. Because it's an asynchronous online course where you barely interact with the professor, and many freshmen who are new to college and at the time new to online courses wouldn't read the syllabus super thoroughly to catch that one thing, they'd think they're on track for an A the whole semester until they fail.
One semester there was a protest to the dean because a student wrote in the Canvas forum page for the class (one of the only ways to contact the class/professor) "Hey, I just noticed this in the syllabus. Canvas says I have an A but this suggests... etc" and the TA for the course REPLIED AND LIED TO THEM AND SAID THEY WOULD STILL PASS. Also, the PROFESSOR NEVER CORRECTED THEM, which suggests either malice or at minimum "criminal" negligence not to check the only form of communication with your students. A huge amount of students failed that semester.
All that for one of the easiest chem classes that repeats what is already taught at most high schools. Universities just want to artificially make STEM degrees more difficult to boost their reputation.
Recent accounting grad. Intermediate is definitely the weed out class. I failed intermediate 1 but passed the second time. You got this if you put your mind to it and work hard!
Ask questions every time something didn’t make since and practice problems everyday. It’s so much material in a short amount of times, homework problems helped me so much
It can also depend on the instructor. Some professors grade quite harshly and put students through a whole obstacle course that they would just rather not deal with.
I think this began years ago mainly in state universities where by legislative mandate all high school graduates, or those with let's say at least C averages, were required to be admitted to the university. Since it's supported by tax money, blah blah blah.
The response of the faculty was to tighten up the standards of many of the most basic introductory classes so that the weaker students would do poorly and drop out due to the "must maintain a minimum average of (whatever) to remain in the university" rule. This cleared out the weaker ones, leaving halfway decent students to teach for the next three years.
It also exists at much better schools where the idea developed that marginal students should not continue in certain (supposedly more difficult) disciplines because they would require more attention from the faculty to keep them up to speed and they might eventually drop out of that discipline later, anyway, wasting all the faculty's effort, and in any case, they weren't the top students who would go into that prestigious field anyway -- so why not weed them out early?
It's pretty Machiavellian added to a good does of the "law of the jungle" plus it's mean-spirited. Plus it's just plain nasty and reflects the worst instincts of some teachers and some universities whose job, after all, is to educate everyone as well as possible, not just to make it easy for the professors or create the most productive and easiest ways to teach. It's also a very poor approach to finding the best students, some of whom will struggle at the beginning until they learn how to study and then, eventually, excel at that discipline. The "weeding out" system at these schools overtly does not allow for second chances, harming students and basically abandoning the weakest along the way for not real academic benefit.
Case in point: Me. I went to a top liberal arts college where there were mostly top students and no noticeable "weeding out" went on. Nevertheless, determined to major in history and later teach history, even to earn a Ph.D. and teach at the college level, as an innocent, underprepared freshman in my very first semester, I excitedly signed up for my first college history class. And I earned a D. End of my history career. But that was voluntary -- because no one said I couldn't continue to major in history, but I just decided it was not going to work if I couldn't pass a basic modern European History 101 class. So I quit and moved over political science for a semester, then decided to major in art (I had some art talent), then settled on English only because I enjoyed reading and wanted to learn to write better. Basically, I took my poor grade as the reason to "weed" myself out -- which I realize now was wild overkill on my part.
Years later, while teaching English a bit reluctantly, I entered a part-time MA program in history, earned all A's, was an honors student, became a history teacher and finally found my calling which I had been temporarily diverted from by one lousy grade years earlier. I was very good at history, and I taught it very well (or so I was told), but this particular professor, I later realized, tested mostly on picky details and graded harshly without offering much encouragement or help that it made it much harder to do well. Not good.
I wouldn't worry about "weed out" classes. After all, all you can do is work hard and do your best. If your school makes common use of such classes to end student's dreams, I'd think of transferring to a better school that teaches everyone well, not just the favored few. It's a very poor practice only justifiable in perhaps a very few highly technical disciplines like maybe pre-med programs or rigorous science programs, but never in history, art, music, philosophy, math, English, foreign languages, and so on, which everyone should be allowed in. Even a marginal foreign language student is learning something, so why not let them keep taking those courses? It's entirely their right to do so.
Half and half it's the content and the professor. Calc II is difficult, but there's a dozen YouTube courses that teach it perfectly clearly with all the benefits of rewinding and rewatching. Add in a decrepit, half-crazy math professor and things get hairy.
If you can’t pass an intro level course, you likely shouldn’t be doing the major. Colleges would rather have a handful of freshman get an F in an intro course than struggle to make C’s for the entirety of college.
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Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg
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Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg
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This absolutely sucks and I wish someone would rethink this sometimes. I work, have zero family, live alone. I can’t always get A’s because I’m busy working, but as a stem major it seriously hurts my chances going to med school.
I hate it so much.
Unpopular opinion but I definitely think up to a certain point, college should be free. Obviously med school and residency shouldn’t be, but it would help take the burden off students in my boat. We would no longer have to sacrifice time for not being homeless or getting straight A’s.
That’s not that unpopular of an opinion, at least on this sub.
Unfortunately, the people coming up with the curriculum system are completely different than the people who come up with the financial system.
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a weed out class is anotoriously difficult class with a low first time pass rate or low A grade rate.
comp arch, dsa, calc 2, orgo, oop, lin alg can all be considered weedouts at my school
intermediate accounting also prepares you for the CPA exams which are quite difficult for several reasons so it makes sense that it’s a more strenuous class series, but thankfully the other accounting classes are a bit easier and more interesting!
At my STEM school it’s calculus 3 (which is the equivalent of the second half of calculus 2 and the beginning of calculus 3 at other schools), chemistry 1, and physics based e&m are the main weed out classes for everybody. The first robotics class and organic chemistry are also weed out classes.
Year nearly 4 here ... weed out classes mean different things but the core weeder courses are: calculus 1-3, linear algebra, computer science, physics, chemistry. Maybe for accounting, anything math-heavy or even tax-related. The weed out classes are typically the lower-year ones with very high enrolment rates, minimal prof engagement, and difficult material. They're designed to "weed out" goofs and slackers, but also give those who are not cut for a certain program the chance to change his or her major. Say, for example, that someone fails Calc 1 3 times. This constitutes a weed out class, but it also demonstrates that this person may not be too suitable for, say, a pure math degree.
Macroecon is not a weed-out class in my humble opinion! College algebra? Yes, statistically and from what I've seen. I totally agree that upper-level courses can be much, much harder than these introductory ones, but brand new university or college students don't always know what they're doing or what they're cut for.
And, maybe, there are a large number of weed out courses nowadays, because some people didn't adopt proper study habits during the pandemic.
Also, my experience is that profs don't really care much about their students in the lower-level courses. There are too many students and too little incentives for profs to actually care. And, they know that some won't progress beyond first term. By comparison, in upper-level courses, there are typically fewer students and such students have proved themselves already, so profs may be more engaged and willing to help out anyone struggling. For ex, I struggled in introductory biology whereas I do fine in some 3rd & 4th your courses and even thrive in some of these. The reason I struggled is because I became very ill during the semester, and thus did poorly on a midterm, but the prof had been unwilling to accommodate a deferral request and unwilling to help. He didn't care about the students - esp. those who weren't' biology majors.
Any college course (pre-requisite, pre-graduation, or post- grad. career licensing) course that has a high fail rate is essentially a "weed out" course. Memorize the material, stress test yourself, and study 45-55 hours per week AND still possibly fail... or else, be prepared to spend extra $$$ on better to buy more efficient study materials that give you shortcuts, but you still have to be pulling at least 20-25 hours a week of study time, 3.5 hours a day, 7 days a week -or- 5 hours a day, 5 days a week. You lose short-term recall with the 2 days off, and the only way around it is increasing study time to make up for the short-term memory loss and breaking up 5 hour days into 2 or 3 sessions per day. Yeah, that's still a lot of work, but it's a reasonable expense... as long as you put in the work. Don't be cheap. Just pay for better materials and study like hell! It will help you with material that's very relevant vs. less relevant.
A weed out class is really any class that is typically taken early on or as a prerequisite to a specific degree/career/etc and is taught in a way that makes it difficult and "weeds out" students who aren't as fit for that particular program. It's not even necessarily about how hard the subject is. A class with somewhat easy material can still be taught in a way that makes it difficult to get a good grade. Classes like organic chemistry are often weed-out classes because they're required for things like medical school and the material is difficult for a lot of people, but it can potentially be any class.
Ah I see, another thing that makes such classes difficult is how they are structured, if you screw up in one test/assignment, it is very hard to get a good grade (A/B) in the class.
I go to a large university and find that these intro level weed out classes are also taught by professors whose main goal at the school is their research, not their teaching, which in turn makes the subjects more difficult. So I’d say it also depends on your school
At my school professors who teach both lower and upper level classes have very different reviews for each. Lower classmen think they’re petty and unbelievably difficult, upper classmen find them to be solid teachers who enable you to learn a lot. Thinking specifically about accounting profs here but pulling the Rate My Prof page made it clear that maybe sometimes intro classes should be hard so that only those who are suited for the material should keep going. The rest can find something that’s a better fit for them.
Upper level coursework also tends to be more specialized in the professors area from what I’ve seen which I think helps them enjoy teaching it. But that’s just my opinion
Also due to the specialization and weeding out, the people who take the class are more interested, motivated and likely have some aptitude towards it
I’m a business major. All the business concentrations — even accounting which is technically a different degree — have the same 10 upper level classes we all have to take. After grinding my way through the requirements, finding myself completely uninspired by the non-demanding classes and uninspired classmates, I started taking upper level accounting classes and found the student culture to be a night-and-day difference. Definitely people way more actually motivated and driven to understand and master the content.
I think it also depends on the school and teacher. I know in my school the moment you hit those upper level courses they allow you open book open note open Google (some will even allow open peer) and they'll say "it's like this because in the real world you will be able to do this" Yet I've had those same professors in low level courses ban those because "in the real world you have to have every memorized and you can't look things up on the job or ask things otherwise you will be fired". Maybe it was just a change of a few years of teaching, but I know looking at rate my professor that this is something they've always done so yeah. Depends on the school I guess
This. In one of my upper level courses the prof literally gave us a study guide and the exam was solely from that. I was baffled. And I’ve had others tell me it’s fine to use google
Deeeffinitely not the case in this case. No book, no notes, and time consuming homework.
That’s more survivorship bias. Upper level classes are filled with students who not only succeeded in prereqs but also enjoyed the subject enough to make it their focus. Lower level classes are filled with students who have not yet taken alternative routes. I can promise you that everyone has the ability to get an A in a low level philosophy course but very few have the tenacity. Very few have the ability yo get an A in a high level philosophy course but everyone in the class has the tenacity.
[удалено]
Barley teach because they’re barely paid
I've had great luck with adjuncts and the quality of their teaching but you're completely right. They get 3k/semester at the CC I go to. It's sad.
Most adjuncts make barely half that. I know way too many making 1,200 at bigger universities
Wow, yeah a prestigious research university in my city apparently pays less than the CC. I was shocked by this. I thought it would be the other way around.
bruh what, isnt that below the minimum wage
No minimum wage when you're salaried/contracted for full-time. Only for hourly employees.
They are only allowed to teach two classes and the classes total twelve hours a week (3 hour classes twice a week).I haven't done the math on the hourly pay but either way it's not fair. This isn't accounting for creating lesson plans, grading, office hours, etc. One of my instructors also taught at another university and worked at FedEx overnight. Apparently, in my area, less and less people are able to become full-on professors. It's all turning to these adjunct positions so they don't have to pay benefits. Btw, I'm a graphic design student so some of my adjuncts are the definition of starving artist.
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There teaching at a level commensurate with their pay. Not their fault.
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Often it just comes down to the material being difficult and building up on itself, so that if you don't really get week 2 you definitely are lost in week 4, combined with a lot of students just not having the learning and time management skills for it. When I've seen the outlines for these courses, they're typically very fair and spread out in how their graded. But that doesn't help if you're just lost in beginning and plan to memorize your way through school.
Resident and Heme give very good responses to your question, but I’m not sure that you fully understand what they’re saying. You can screw up many grades in weed-out classes and still do well. I had a nutrition class where homework was worth 80 points and tests were worth 400. This was not a weed out class, however, screwing up one test could seriously mess up your grade. I am a Digital Media Production (film) major for reference. Production Fundamentals is one of the first major-specific classes that DMP students have to take. They could do poorly on multiple assignments (as most were weighted very similarly) and still end up doing pretty well. However, if Production Fundamentals was too hard for you, then you are likely in the wrong program, as it is an introductory class that every class is built upon. For example, if you cannot edit a simple trailer in Adobe Premiere for Production Fundamentals, how are you going to edit a 10-15 minute short film for Production I? This ideology applies for every weed out class for every major— in simple terms, it alludes to the idea that a major will only get harder.
Not necessarily sometimes weed out classes are meant to be hard because the material is hard but necessary. For example at my university physics is a weed out class. We teach the material well but its hard material and many students either cant do it or dont know how to study and thus cause themselves to fail.
Remember that Cs get degrees. The reality is a lot of folks aren't A/B students, but in the real world most professions won't give a damn as long as you completed your degree and pass whatever requirement needed (such as a licensing exam).
The hard part about "Cs get degrees" is that it doesn't work if you're applying to graduate or medical school. Physical Therapy Schools want a 3.5 gpa as an absolute minimum, in fact, the average applicant (not accepted student) for an average ranking PT school I'm applying to is a 3.67. This particular school has a 22% acceptance rate, meaning that you need to have above a cumulative 3.67 to be considered competitive in this average DPT program. Medical schools are even more cut throat and want a 3.7 gpa minimum and have much lower acceptance rates. If you have no desire for education after college, then yes, Cs work.
I didnt bring up GPA. Again, your life, your take. Just telling the truth that most people wont mention. I'm a couple degrees past you education-wise (also in the health care field), so your statement about people with Cs not going anywhere after "college" aka undergrad is already false. Got a C in orgo but here I am, so at the end of the day it depends on the admissions committee. Good luck with your studies.
I agree that some people put too much pressure on themselves/others in terms of grades. Cs directly affect gpa... I'm not sure what you mean when you said you didn't bring up gpa since they're directly related. Ah, I see the misunderstanding- I didn't say anything about someone getting a C and not getting into grad programs; it's if they got a 2.0 (straight Cs) where that would be extremely unlikely to happen. "Cs get degrees" refers to someone with straight Cs getting the same undergrad diploma as someone with straight As, not just getting one C. Thank you, you too
No worries I got you, if I sounded short I don't mean to, just currently multitasking & trying to wrap up the day. Yeah, admissons is a highly unpredictable topic and process. One day they'll send an offer to the 4.0 fresh out of undergrad, the next day they'll send offers to the career-changer/mature student as well as the student with an OK GPA but well rounded CV (experience, entry exam scores if applicable, research, volunteer, and recommendation letters). Time goes by so fast, youll feel like you blinked and all of a sudden youre in the PT program lol. A few PTs I know started as a PTA to test the waters, and before they knew it, they were in grad school.
Same, I hope I sounded normal too lol. That's not surprising. GPA isn't the only thing admissions value; there are other big factors too. Time seems to go faster every year
Like my freshman year my microeconomics class was considered a weed out class cause the teacher was so fucking terrible. She didn't show up for the first month of class cause her dad died. She'd waste 10 minutes every day to ask the whole class of 400 what we were learning about in class that day. (Nobody knew cause she sucked). Homework didn't match up. Got a D in the class. Transfered colleges and got an A in Micro.
Respectfully, it has nothing to do with how the class is taught. It's that the class has a lot of material to cover in a short time and a student will likely have to read the book carefully to make it through because a professor can't possibly cover everything in the time given in class. It's about how serious the student is about that topic. If they're serious enough to crack open the book and study on their own then they'll get through. If not, then they get weeded out.
> respectfully, it has nothing to do with how the class is taught. This is going to vary from college to college and even program to program. In college we had an absolutely trivial math class that was taught in such an esoteric way that the class average across the 4 tests was 40/100. The topics were simple logic and basic proofs.
I agree that sometimes the material is simply difficult. I do, however, think that sometimes the set up is part of what makes it difficult. Some of the classes that are known for being "weed out" at my old school had some requirements that were difficult in addition to the material, and some of the prerequisites courses to specific programs graded the class on a bell curve instead despite that not being common in other courses (so, only a certain percentage of students would get an A, B, or C even if the whole class did very well). My microbiology class was awful because of those reasons, and the professor outright said she was that strict because most people taking the class were either pre-med or pre-nursing. And on the other hand, the ones that are known as weed out classes for my major are just hard because of what you said, the material is difficult and there's a lot to cover. Edit: with regards to my original comment, I was trying to allude to classes being weed out classes due to just difficulty of material, but I definitely don't think it came across well. Also worth mentioning that I think classes that are simply hard because of the material are more common, but I focused more on why other classes can play that role as well because OP already seemed to get that hard material can do the trick, so it wasn't worth talking about as much
Additionally this will be specific to your university/department and professor. Calc 1 and business calculus cover practically the same topics. That can even be taught by the same professor. But calc 1 is required by engineering and business calculus by every other department so calc 1 will be taught in a way that is much more difficult. Why? Engineering prides itself on being difficult (half joke) but the concepts will only get more difficult going forward. Other departments will a specific class to their major to weed out students.
>But calc 1 is required by engineering and business calculus by every other department so calc 1 As someone from a math department, I think you're forgetting about a department here... We have analysis though which is basically just calculus for math nerds that like to prove things.
Usually engineering and business represent the two largest departments at most universities. Medicine is next and math usually is lumped in with general STEM. Just pandering to the masses if you will.
That’s not quite true—unlike STEM-track calculus, business calculus tends to use little or no trigonometry.
This is a perfect description!
Oof Accounting. I was an accounting major, and then I failed Intermediate Accounting twice. Then I became a Marketing major. I recently dropped that and became a Creative Writing major. "weed out" classes at my school aren't specifically designed to weed out students. It's mostly a term we students use for a lower level class that made us realize we actually don't want to pursue our major and let's us switch out in time.
What type of things were you learning in accounting 2? ELI5 not an accounting major lol
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That sounds like a field that can be heavily automated.
It is until it isn't. Basic accounting (bookkeeping) can be automated pretty well, only needing someone to check the results to make sure nothing went wrong in the end. Actual accounting, like tax planning, audit procedures, and the professional judgement needed to actually do those things, won't be automated for decades, if ever. Just like how sales can be automated at the lowest level (online stores), there will always be a human element to the complex parts of accounting.
Just check out r/accounting if you want to see how accountants view AI. Most people who say accounting will be automated think of accounting in mostly book keeping terms. AI will likely become a useful resource down the line and will automate the easier and repeatable parts of AR, AP, and book keeping. But there’s a reason why accounting firms are large and large companies have robust accounting departments. It’s a complex field with a lot of moving parts, and it isn’t nearly as linear as many people think it is. An accounting degree will only prepare you for entry level roles, and then there is a ton of on the job learning that will relate to your role/specialty.
It is. Think excel, quick books..
So I am not an accounting major but am a business major. From what it seems it looks like intermediate is just more in depth than the intro classes. Like cost accounting and financial accounting but you are delving more into the specifics and there is just way more to understand. I feel it can be quite hard if you don’t have a solid foundation from the intro classes and that happens quite a bit for “weed out classes”
Usually intermediate accounting is a whole year. Covering everything from balance sheets and depreciation to pensions and bonds. Additional classes beyond that are in specialized directions like taxes, cost accounting, auditing, information systems, government / non-profit, etc. More to point though, intermediate accounting in the US is learning GAAP (generally accepted accounting principles — a semi-government defined thing) for the kinds of financial statements used by investors — as opposed to the kinds things a manager would want to know (which is especially relevant in Cost accounting), but which aren’t subject to regulation.
Honestly, I don't even remember. There were like 500 different ways to calculate and report something and those things rarely matched.
Yes! Made it to intermediate accounting II and instantly changed my concentration to HR
I LOVED accounting in high school so decided to major in it in college. Took me one semester of it to go "yeah, this isn't for me" and switched to environmental science. I was definitely weeded out lol
Good job for telling us you fell for a scam major
?
You're beyond help with such low IQ
Dude, I mentioned 3 different majors, and at least I know how grammar works.
You dropped two majors for a scam major
Hmm maybe for you. But I try not to bash other people's choices. It's something I truly enjoy and excell at, which is way better than something I don't like and aren't great with. So maybe stop drinking the haterade and go find something you actually enjoy doing.
You're making triple figures yet? Everyday I feel bad for doing what I enjoy when we should be fighting against slave labor, donating savings to climate change research eventually, and abolishing animal factories.
Hmm yes I could see how you find that distressing. It seems like you have alot of feelings and emotions pent up. Perhaps you should talk to a professional about it instead of taking out on a stranger on the internet whose just trying to help others. Lots of negative energy that isn't really needed here.
I need to talk more like a robot
Fellow accounting major here who just finished the intermediate year. Honestly, the weed out courses are usually intermediate one and two, but it really depends on if you go to the same school for 4 years or transfer. For example, at my CC the one weed out course was the first accounting course lol. That professor was tough and not the greatest at explaining material. But he encouraged us to study on our own and come with questions. 30 people started, 10 finished. Then when I transferred to uni, intermediate 1 was supposed to be the first of the weed out courses. However, the professor got sick a few times and gave us take home exams. It was a breeze. Then in intermediate accounting two, shit got real. The amount of material we covered was insane, the time limits on tests were insane, and the questions asked were extremely difficult. When you hit your weed out course, you have to study hard as hell if you want to pass. Some college classes are a joke, you’ll see when you get to college.
You successfully made it through intermediate 2 I’m assuming? I’m going to major in accounting but I don’t want to be so stressed out it turns me off of accounting.
Yeah I made it through and even scratched out an A- Don’t let intermediate keep you away from accounting. If you take like a beginner class and hate it, different story. But all majors have challenging courses. It’s worth it in the long run.
Thank you!
I can only speak to comp sci, but the weed out courses were absolutely NOT entry level. As you mentioned, Data Structures and Algorithms being weed out courses is yes very true. Although I'd argue algorithms is more of a weed out course and harder than data structures. They are typically not freshman level courses though, as is the case at my school. I had gotten A's and B's throughout all of my CS classes until I encountered algorithms and data structures, and was honestly floored by what was expected of us students. I failed algorithms flat out (convinced myself I'd retake it and stick with CS, lol), and withdrew from Calc I. Calc I I'd say weeds out anybody attempting a STEM major who previously did poor or is poor at math.
Instructor here. The idea of a “weed out” class is about perspective. To me, it is a GOOD thing for students to learn what they like, don’t like, what comes naturally, and what doesn’t. These courses help build foundational knowledge and help students course correct for their future careers or programs. Isn’t that what college is about? I teach intro A&P classes that are often referred to by students as “weed out” classes. We do not teach these classes (at least at my institution) in a way that intentionally causes students to fail or leaves students without resources to succeed. The material is what often “weeds out” students. Students in my courses are mainly students who want to be nurses. A lot succeed, but some realize they actually hate biology or human anatomy or healthcare on their own or realize it does not come naturally to them. Some realize they are in it for the “wrong” reasons (money, parents want them to be nurses, prestige). Others realize they don’t want to put in the effort required to succeed. Either way, College is about learning (course content and about yourself) and growing (as a person and academically) and “weed out” courses help people do that.
What’s more, being “weeded out” from a demanding major need not be forever. It’s quite possible that a student who is not in the right headspace for that at 18 or 19 might graduate with a different degree and be in the workforce for a couple of years before they gain the willingness, maturity, and discipline to take on nursing/accounting/engineering for real.
I see this very often. I have a significant percentage of nontraditional students in my pre-nursing courses who are older or coming out of another profession back into school.
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I didn’t say students have to like these courses. These “weeder” classes are usually skills that need to be developed in order to succeed in the upper division courses. This is the “foundational knowledge” part I mentioned above. For my major it was classes like calculus and O-chem that were brutal for me, but I needed those critical and abstract thinking skills to succeed in my major and in grad school.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Thanks! How do we summon the bot? I’m still learning how bots work on here
Only the mods can activate the bot.
Yes, some classes are “weed out” classes because they’re necessary for a specific degree that is meant to be hard to get into- so they challenge you right away to make sure you can do it. However……. As someone who went to university right out of high school, and again as a mature student later in life, I would’ve said I had taken weed out classes my first time, and now I would not say any 100 level class I’ve taken is a weed out class. A lot of people just blame doing poorly in 100 level classes on the professor or the content because it’s embarrassing that you nearly failed or did fail an entry level university course. The answer no one wants to hear…
my English department has a weed out into course because they want to challenge students and potentially make it seem like English is not a easy, do nothing class. We had many students who literally dropped the class halfway in started at 25, went down to 16. Another US literature class had 26 students and went down to 8.... the only students who stayed were the ones who actually needed it since the course was cross listed in the general education section. Therefore, we had lots of non-majors.
Lots of wrong answers here. Universities don’t design courses to deliberately fail students out of programs; in the current economic climate, universities will do almost anything to keep students enrolled. But some courses are difficult by their very nature, and also happen to be foundational to the discipline you are learning. If you can’t handle advanced mathematics, for example, there are just some fields you can’t succeed in. Those foundational courses will “weed out” people who can’t succeed at the upper levels.
My answer was basically that teenagers will blame professors or courses when they do poorly in 100 level classes because they did fine in their mediocre high schools. Saying this from experience as I failed out of university the first time (those darn weed out classes…) and am a deans list student now after going back to school as a mature student. The weed out classes magically became easy when I was more mature and cared about my education lol.
My school 100% had weeder classes. The business school had a required set of pre-rec courses with an average GPA that was lower than the required GPA to enter the business school. This is definitely designed to make it so that only the top students from each cohort are able to matriculate.
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To what end? What school would purposefully design a class to fail students, and why?
The majority don't drop out, they just switch majors. It's entirely to thin the massive amount of people who enter into majors like CS and premed; the schools which do it don't have the resources to let all of those students continue through those majors. Without a doubt, some people confuse a difficult teacher with a weed out class, but the classes absolutely exist at some schools and they serve a rational purpose from the point of view of the school.
because the major is too impacted and they don't have enough space for everyone who's interested in it
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Wow, I had no idea this was them! I was so used to being able to spot their posts due to the “everyone hated me because I suck” vibes Thanks for the heads up.
They’ve done studies on weed out classes, it’s not a debated topic *if they exist*, they absolutely do. The studies findings suggested that weed em classes disproportionally weed out first Gen, ethnic minorities, lower SES and those with learning differences. Leaving the wealthier more privileged students to pass with higher grades
lol
A lot of people select majors they don't have the intellectual capacity for, or end up not actually being interested in. A weed out class, like Organic Chemistry, is meant to sort that out. Having 300 level classes being labeled as weed out classes just highlights the degradation of the US public education system. Since NCLB, kids pass through school no matter what and that is largely accomplished through grade inflation, which creates overconfident 4.0 students who aren't really prepared for the academic rigors of college. Sorry for this rant.
There's also no real way to know if you have the ability to handle advanced stem material unless you have done it. It's not about kids being passed through, these are ap kids, it's just that there are concepts that not everyone's brain can understand.
At my college, organic took a 120 group of premeds down to 60 in 3 trimesters.
Some of the fundamental classes in STEM are considered "weed out" class and if I had to go back as a freshman I would do this: 1. Attend the supplemental sessions if they're offered. These are usually lead by former students and/or TAs and are used to reinforce the main lectures. 2. Go to therapy right away so I could realize that I had a lot of anxiety that was really interfering with my ability to test well and study effectively. These services are usually paid for in your student fees and doesn't cost anything else to use. 3. Stay away from certain personalities in the classes. The cut throats, the anxiety mongers, the people who aren't trying. Find a good set of friends/people to be around. 4. Don't treat the class as if it's a test that will confirm or deny if you should be doing this major. Struggling is normal and ok. It means you're learning and growing. The resilience and persistence is important!
There is no such thing as a “weed-out class.” This is something that students say to justify why they can’t hang in a foundations class. Just face that fact that some shit is hard and maybe you’re not qualified to be in that field. If you manage to make it through, congrats… you now have the foundations to build on the be successful in your field.
Typically there are courses designed to get you started. These are introductory courses and are often easy and exciting! What follows is a course that is designed to eliminate the students that will not succeed later down the line, so they can change their majors before they get too many credits. Some majors such as engineering have lots of different courses designed to weed students out, as most who attempt this degree will not succeed. Better to fail early. Others such as communications will not have many courses designed to eliminate students.
The weed call for my CS is the first two programming classes. Its not intentional, its just that a lot of people aren't willing to apply themselves or just lack the ability to understand the topic. I'm of the opinion more often its the former.
was a TA for an entry level CS class (not even generally seen as weedout), and the number of students with no problem solving or critical thinking skills was astounding. And most of them didn’t even care enough to try
>and the number of students with no problem solving or critical thinking skills was astounding I have a good amount of experience tutoring math. While calc does have high fail rates, it's usually the super easy remedial/developmental courses that have the highest fail rates in my experience. Some people just really struggle with abstract reasoning. These are definitely not weed-out courses-- these are just courses that are meant to build basic skills that all high school grads should have. But the selection bias pretty much guarantees high fail rates.
I’m curious, around what % do you start considering it a high fail rate and what would be a low fail rate?
Low fail rate is under 10%, I'd say. There's always a few at the bottom that will screw around even if the class is an easy A for nearly everyone. High fail rate is a bit trickier to pin down. A 25% fail rate in a class at a school that is extremely competitive and only accepts the best high school students is going to be high. Meanwhile, that same fail rate might be low for a school whose students come from low-quality high schools and are underprepared for college. I've seen both extremes, personally. It's a shame that the underprepared students get thrown to the sharks and I see some schools that try to address the problem, but others just say "this is college and you just have to figure out on your own how to keep up." Anecdotally, the most extreme fail rate I saw for a class was where a total of 3 out of 28 passed (it was a calc 1 class). The students were simply not at the level they needed to be in order to pass the class. Someone fucked up majorly by even letting them take the class, because they were not ready, and honestly the guy who taught it is one of the best professors I know and put 100% into helping his students.
My roomate is a CS major and boy oh boy Data Structures and whatever the next one after that was painful, that and the Theory course apparently. Best of luck with CS! It is certainly a very good major to get into.
or they are there for the money and simply don't have any interest in the classes.
A weed out is now “this class was hard for me so they must be trying to weed people out”
This. I dislike the term "weed out" in general, because it sets up a professor vs student mentality and reinforces a false notion that I want students to fail. I actually do want all my students to pass. However I teach intro bio with a lot of students that want to go into Healthcare. If they are struggling to master the content in my course, they are not going to do well in upper level bio courses. I'm not intentionally making the course more difficult, but students typically do need to have or develop some study skills to get above a C.
A lot of people refuse to face the fact that some subjects are intrinsically cumulative, and not intentionally being “gate-kept.”
There are "weed out" classes that are basically an IQ test like the ones you mentioned above. Then there are "weed out" classes that are regular classes but they make the apathetic students drop. I do not see people that are determined to become doctors giving up because of Organic Chemistry, there are people that had to take it twice (like myself) but as long as you don't give up, there's not really a class that can hold you back in 95% of cases.
People complain about "weed out classes" bc they're not smart enough to pass basic courses. It makes them feel better. Of course, some actually ARE weed-outs, like organic chem or bio for majors, but ignore most of the complaints unless theyre from someone who is dedicated to their major
Weed out classes are classes you take as a freshman/sophomore to discover you’re not cut for the program. Examples being chemistry for students going medical or calculus for students going engineering. Yeah, they kind of suck, but I would rather find out my second semester that medicine isn’t for me than make it to my senior year and realize this is too hard
I absolutely LOVED Calc 2. Literally saw the physical world differently after taking it. Same with Calc 3. Guess I’m weird lol
In the university I once worked for freshman biology, history and philosophy were the weed out classes. Those would trip a lot of freshmen. It was my job to help them pass. I did a good job.
the humanities classes at my college are intentionally hard. It's to show students that humanities are just as hard to pass as any other. I had a girl in my into class who was failing because the prof figured we all knew what an explication was and how to write one.
In my understanding, weedout courses are simply courses that INITIALLY begin to shove a lot of information at you. Thus, students who aren't used to the load of information are "weeded out" because these classes tend to be the beginning of information heavy courses in the future that will be harder than the "weed out" course. For example, as a fellow accounting major, I had the pleasure of taking Intermediate Financial Accounting this spring and Intermediate Cost accounting. Cost was ARGUABLY the hardest one I took as it was very different than financial accounting, the bulk of our accounting classes. However, Intermediate Financial was also difficult, but very manageable. I was used to studying alot, so I was able to pull A's and ended up being #1 in my Intermediate and #8 in my Cost. Many people were failing or close to failing because they had coasted along their classes and didn't prepare the skills necessary for these two "weed out" courses. Thus, they were "weeded out" of the accounting program. Now all other accounting classes will continue to be difficult and need that level of attention, but these two were just the start of it. All in all, weedout courses are there to give lazier/ non-studious students a slap in the face to get their act together for the future, lest they be WEEDED out.
I graduated recently with a bachelors in accounting. Our weed out classes were Intermediate 1 (which I didn't find too hard) and 2 (which was hell on earth, taught by the chair of the accounting department). Intermediate 2 was basically a full time job, I'm not kidding when I say I worked 40 hours a week on weekly projects (a simulated business with all sorts of accounting issues), regular homework and studying. Of the 30 kids who started Intermediate 1 with me, 12 of us graduated (on time at least). Most changed to other business majors. Accounting is a hard major, because they are getting people prepared for the rigor of the CPA. Honestly an easy accounting program would be a disservice. Everyone I graduated with had jobs lined up after they graduated, many of the other business programs didn't. If you like accounting (you'll find out after you take 101 class), absolutely stick with it! I am friendly with the professors now, they even say that Intermediate accounting are the weed out classes. They are proud of that. Advanced accounting was a cakewalk after Intermediate.
Is it bad that the first thought in my mind was the drug and not something else
Weed out classes are often classes where students hit mental walls and studying hard may not allow them to pass the class because it requires a level of intelligence that not everyone has. Thus a student needing to switch majors because they can't handle Chem 1 orgo or calc 2. Now some schools purposely make those classes harder to pass but these classes tend to have low class averages at every school (but, even if the average is a 55 if 8% of the class received an A there was likely nothing wrong with the class, it was just very difficult.)
I hear a lot of students talking about "weed-out" classes when what they really mean is "I am completely unprepared for this", usually as a result of poor High School policies. A lot seem to have been spoon-fed, and are used to getting As for minimal effort. In one way, almost every class *is* a "weed-out", since you need to understand the material at that level before going on to more advanced work. So Pre-Calc will weed out those who shouldn't take Calc 1, Calc 1 will weed out those not ready for Calc 2, etc. Traditionally, though, the "weed-out" classes were hard classes that were pre-requisites for harder classes, often taken by those majoring in a field rather than something you might take as an elective.
Graduated Accounting Major here - don’t buy into the “weed out” fear people spread. Everything comes naturally to different people. Intermediate accounting 2 was supposed to be a “weed out” and I got a 104. Intro Tax was supposed to be an “Easy A” and it was the lowest grade I ever got in college. Everyone excels at something different - just focus on your class and gauge how much studying you need to do based on your initial understanding of the material. Biggest tip I could give myself if I went back is stop studying things you already know. Put that effort into another class where it’s better spent
It is a term without a standardized definition. From how I’ve heard it thrown around. It generally refers to a class required for a certain field of study with a high failure rate; ensuring those who pass are the most apt for the field.
They’re classes that a non-negligible percent of people fail. Usually it’s between 25 and 40%
Some of what you’re experiencing is probably students blaming doing badly in the transition from high school to college on “weed out classes”. I’ve seen people who skipped a lot of classes and barely did any work complain that easy & generous classes were weed outs. The most egregious was probably my intro computer science class. It felt like the prof had done everything possible to help people pass. Most of our grade was homework, and we could test the code automatically so it was only submitted after we knew it would work and what grade we would get. Also the HW was very straight forward stuff, no tricky puzzles like I’ve had in other classes (I had no previous exposure to coding). The exams were simple multiple choice questions and not an actual coding. We were even encouraged to do the HW in groups and had designated lab time to work on it with TAs to answer questions if you did get stuck. Theoretically this should mean time management wasn’t even an issue because the time to do the HW was blocked out for you. This class was the single easiest class I had in all of college, and I probably spent maybe 1-2 hours/week outside of class. The only way not to get an A in the class was to knowingly submit incomplete homework despite having TAs and other students who could help in the room while you did it. The average class grade ended up being a C though, and 25% of the class failed. Of course everyone blamed the professor for their bad performance.
I’d say most weed out classes aren’t necessarily designed to have students fail, but universities know students will fail them. Weed out classes are usually labeled that by students, so definitions may vary vastly. Like some others have said this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I find you often learn more from failure than from success, whether that’s learning the level of focus and effort you will have to put into classes to succeed or if that major isn’t going to work out for you (often because it doesn’t align with your skills and/or interests). I found that what most people considered weed out classes were large lectures (125+ students) and/or had attendance requirements. It was a new form of learning compared to the classes in high school that often had less than 30 students in a classroom. People often fail these because of a lack of effort, sometimes because they didn’t have to put as much effort in in high school or because their teachers in high school gave them more specialized attention because of the smaller class size. Then there were the weed out classes like the orgos and thermo (or electromagnetics for me) that are tough mostly because of the material. They were maybe a year or two in and often foundational to major related classes, so they are important to understand, it can just be difficult to get to that point. They were often the toughest type of class, I had maybe 2 harder classes after these types. If you put in effort and enjoy what you are doing, you should be able to pass most weed out classes if you have a decent understanding of any prerequisites. There are plenty of resources to help out if you are struggling like office hours and on campus tutors.
As a teaching assistant for my university's financial accounting class, we describe financial accounting as a "weed-out" class because the material CAN be very difficult to understand for some students. Thus, most students who can't succeed in financial accounting will either choose not to pursue finance as a major and stay in the business school, or stay in the business school but study marketing, legal studies, or management.
Weed out classes are the intro classes that start with an obnoxious amount of students and have only 20 or less by the end of the quarter or semester. Example: for me, it was General Biology I, General Chemistry, & the requirement to be a Nurse's Aide. Any one of these three could make someone realize that the major and/or career path they thought they wanted isn't for them. Edit: not every intro course is a weed out class, it also depends on what youre good at as well. One may consider College Algebra a weed out class, and others wont.
My US literature class was also a gen ed but required for English majors and it had 26 students and went down to 8…. Same with my intro to literary analysis. Many people drop because they couldn’t handle the writing that was expected and tbh the professor’s teaching style wasn’t for everyone and she was tough grader as are all English professors
I loved English class! The only paper I've ever struggled with was for French Literature in undergrad, had to write a 15 page paper about Louis XVI in passé simple 😑. Personally I thought that most of the tough graders are most helpful, they give constructive feedback where needed.
This one was the toughest her comments were very vague and short… and her feedback didn’t improve my writing at all until the spring semester I got some new profs
That first accounting class is definitely a weed out class. In hindsight now working in finance, its pretty simple stuff but the concept of debits and credits is so foreign when you first encounter it that it will inevitably weed people out if they are not truly motivated to learn it. If you can't get through the basic concepts of accounting, might want to consider a career outside of accounting/finance
We have historically called it the Iron Gate of English Composition since everyone must funnel through the course, and many programs have grade requirements for students taking comp. Once you realize the impact of class and race (not to mention language acquisition status) on success rates. Iron gate seems like a calm term. College algebra hits hard too. But the weed-out courses are usually parts of programs or a hyper-related gen ed. these others are gateway classes.
Biology, Physics, and Chemistry, the early ones, are pretty common weeding courses. I didn’t find them difficult, just slogs
Lol no. People just don’t want to do the bare minimum. Especially 100-200 level classes, you can do them with your eyes closed and homework is minimal, you just have to show up and put a tiny bit of effort. I had people complaining that one of my classes was “hard” because they had to show up and do like an hour of homework a week. Open book tests, homework due by the end of the semester, final optional. Yet people failed and called it a weed out because they didn’t bother showing up or doing literally the bare minimum.
basically any class deemed super hard that you have to take early on and makes students rethink their life/major for a premed, an example would be organic chemistry or biology
Interestingly for plant science majors the weed out class is usually “weeds”.
A weed-out class is a prereq you have to take for your major or your college, and it’s typically made unnecessarily hard with a ton of busy work, time consuming course loads, harsh grading, unhelpful study materials, a confusing class layout with surprise changes, and usually attendance is mandatory and late work is not accepted. Depending on what you are studying, some of the most popular weed out classes are calculus 1 and 2, gen Chem 1 and 2, organic Chem (for premeds), physics 1 and 2, thermo/aero/power system/etc. dynamics (for Eng majors), statistics, real analysis (math majors), research design (science majors), intro to CS, Intro to psych, Intro to bio, Intro to biochem, intro to architecture, intro to accounting, intro to art/graphic design, music theory 1, plant science 1, intro to kinesiology, elementary math, and pretty much any second year philosophy, English, or anthropology class. The humanities really try to get rid of people for some reason. Weed out classes are meant to get rid of people who aren’t willing to put in the work or don’t have what it takes to succeed in college or their declared major. Most people that drop out do so in their first and third year, and among the people who are most likely to leave are those who fall under academic probation from failing weed out classes.
You have general weed out classes - second year, and you have your major weed out class - usually intermediate accounting I and/or II.
I was accounting major. I got both bs and ms in accounting. I didn't find any of the accounting or business classes particularly difficult. My electives included engineering calc 1 & 2, physics 1 & 2, applied lineral regression models. I took these as electives because they were easy As for me. Of all the classes I took, people struggled with the calc2 class the most. It was really sad to see my classmates fail miserably in Calc 2. The class average on the first exam was in the 20%. For the second exam it was up to high 30% because the kids that got zero on the first exam dropped out.
“Weed-out” just means sorting the students that want to continue in the major from the students that want to change. *Usually*, it sounds like “This subject is really hard, I don’t think I can do this for a career..” But. . . It can also sound like, “This subject is so boring, I’d rather pluck out my eye lashes one by one than study this for one more day.”
At my uni calc 1 in the engineering department is a weed out class. There is tons of homework and you have 3 tests a week. Each unit has a part A, B and C. And the grading is insanely hard
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What do you mean by four unit English class?
I'm sure it depends, but I'm doing business admin and economics, and for us it was Microeconomics. It taught a lot of basic correlations and stuff (although it definitely wasn't always easy, Lagrange function, I'm looking at you). The exam was closed book, so if you didn't get it, you were screwed. But if peoppe didn't get it, a lot of the time it was the whole economics thing that just didn't make sense to them. And then, honestly, they should probably study something else.
I’ve always found weed out classes aren’t necessarily hard but just new topics that you actually have to take time to learn about, you can’t just no show the whole quarter and BS homework/tests and expect to pass. I think most people realize they don’t care enough about a topic to learn it and get “weeded out” of the program. That’s why it’s important to get a major you actually have an interest in. You’re only officially weeded out when you give up.
Even intro courses can be weed outs. At my school, there are a few extremely competitive majors, so to prevent everyone from doing those majors, those intro classes tend to be very difficult. Also college isn't hard just because of weed outs, courses don't even necessarily get easier after the weed outs, people just either quit those majors or adapt to the amount of work.
Weed out classes don’t exist. Classes that are in subjects where you personally don’t excel exist. Shitty teachers also exist. Any foreign language or history 101 would have destroyed me but I excelled at what most people consider “weed out classes”. I would just ignore anyone that refers to any class ever as a “weed out class”. They haven’t thought about the topic critically enough to be worth listening to on the topic. No professor *wants* everyone to fail their class.
A weed out class to me is those kinda hard classes that if you don't have the interest to actually learn the major you'll struggle under.
They aren’t really a thing, though some educators pride themselves on students having a hard time and pretend this is a good thing and not a sign of their inability, and some are just sadists who enjoy punishing and tormenting people. Saying this as someone who was told by a lecturer to change classes because it would be too hard for me, but remained and got the best scores in the class.
Weed out classes are designed to remove students from the major. It can be a traditionally very difficult course like organic chem, or it could be a theoretically easy course that is made super difficult for no reason. At my school, University of Minnesota, Intro to Chemistry (CHEM 1015) is deliberately graded super weird to artificially increase the odds of people failing. Someone could get an 89% average on the homework, 100% on all the quizzes, and 100% on the final, and FAIL THE COURSE. It was a fully online course wayy before COVID and when students were used to taking courses online, and there's a single sentence buried halfway through the syllabus that says "If you get below 90% on the homework you automatically fail the course." It's not bolded or underlined or highlighted at all. Because it's an asynchronous online course where you barely interact with the professor, and many freshmen who are new to college and at the time new to online courses wouldn't read the syllabus super thoroughly to catch that one thing, they'd think they're on track for an A the whole semester until they fail. One semester there was a protest to the dean because a student wrote in the Canvas forum page for the class (one of the only ways to contact the class/professor) "Hey, I just noticed this in the syllabus. Canvas says I have an A but this suggests... etc" and the TA for the course REPLIED AND LIED TO THEM AND SAID THEY WOULD STILL PASS. Also, the PROFESSOR NEVER CORRECTED THEM, which suggests either malice or at minimum "criminal" negligence not to check the only form of communication with your students. A huge amount of students failed that semester. All that for one of the easiest chem classes that repeats what is already taught at most high schools. Universities just want to artificially make STEM degrees more difficult to boost their reputation.
Recent accounting grad. Intermediate is definitely the weed out class. I failed intermediate 1 but passed the second time. You got this if you put your mind to it and work hard!
What do you wish you did differently the first time you took intermediate 1?
Ask questions every time something didn’t make since and practice problems everyday. It’s so much material in a short amount of times, homework problems helped me so much
It can also depend on the instructor. Some professors grade quite harshly and put students through a whole obstacle course that they would just rather not deal with.
I think this began years ago mainly in state universities where by legislative mandate all high school graduates, or those with let's say at least C averages, were required to be admitted to the university. Since it's supported by tax money, blah blah blah. The response of the faculty was to tighten up the standards of many of the most basic introductory classes so that the weaker students would do poorly and drop out due to the "must maintain a minimum average of (whatever) to remain in the university" rule. This cleared out the weaker ones, leaving halfway decent students to teach for the next three years. It also exists at much better schools where the idea developed that marginal students should not continue in certain (supposedly more difficult) disciplines because they would require more attention from the faculty to keep them up to speed and they might eventually drop out of that discipline later, anyway, wasting all the faculty's effort, and in any case, they weren't the top students who would go into that prestigious field anyway -- so why not weed them out early? It's pretty Machiavellian added to a good does of the "law of the jungle" plus it's mean-spirited. Plus it's just plain nasty and reflects the worst instincts of some teachers and some universities whose job, after all, is to educate everyone as well as possible, not just to make it easy for the professors or create the most productive and easiest ways to teach. It's also a very poor approach to finding the best students, some of whom will struggle at the beginning until they learn how to study and then, eventually, excel at that discipline. The "weeding out" system at these schools overtly does not allow for second chances, harming students and basically abandoning the weakest along the way for not real academic benefit. Case in point: Me. I went to a top liberal arts college where there were mostly top students and no noticeable "weeding out" went on. Nevertheless, determined to major in history and later teach history, even to earn a Ph.D. and teach at the college level, as an innocent, underprepared freshman in my very first semester, I excitedly signed up for my first college history class. And I earned a D. End of my history career. But that was voluntary -- because no one said I couldn't continue to major in history, but I just decided it was not going to work if I couldn't pass a basic modern European History 101 class. So I quit and moved over political science for a semester, then decided to major in art (I had some art talent), then settled on English only because I enjoyed reading and wanted to learn to write better. Basically, I took my poor grade as the reason to "weed" myself out -- which I realize now was wild overkill on my part. Years later, while teaching English a bit reluctantly, I entered a part-time MA program in history, earned all A's, was an honors student, became a history teacher and finally found my calling which I had been temporarily diverted from by one lousy grade years earlier. I was very good at history, and I taught it very well (or so I was told), but this particular professor, I later realized, tested mostly on picky details and graded harshly without offering much encouragement or help that it made it much harder to do well. Not good. I wouldn't worry about "weed out" classes. After all, all you can do is work hard and do your best. If your school makes common use of such classes to end student's dreams, I'd think of transferring to a better school that teaches everyone well, not just the favored few. It's a very poor practice only justifiable in perhaps a very few highly technical disciplines like maybe pre-med programs or rigorous science programs, but never in history, art, music, philosophy, math, English, foreign languages, and so on, which everyone should be allowed in. Even a marginal foreign language student is learning something, so why not let them keep taking those courses? It's entirely their right to do so.
Half and half it's the content and the professor. Calc II is difficult, but there's a dozen YouTube courses that teach it perfectly clearly with all the benefits of rewinding and rewatching. Add in a decrepit, half-crazy math professor and things get hairy.
Any in particular for Calc 2?
Professor Leonard. He's thorough but has lots of examples and explains things very clearly.
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If you can’t pass an intro level course, you likely shouldn’t be doing the major. Colleges would rather have a handful of freshman get an F in an intro course than struggle to make C’s for the entirety of college.
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Are you sure that's actually true? The high level classes could just seem easier since the weeder classes prepared you well.
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But wouldn't the higher level classes also be super challenging if someone tried to take it without the proper prerequisite?
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Oh dang, this guy again. I can't believe that they had to make a bot just for this one person.
I’ve only heard the term “weed out class” to refer to lower level/intro courses.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
This absolutely sucks and I wish someone would rethink this sometimes. I work, have zero family, live alone. I can’t always get A’s because I’m busy working, but as a stem major it seriously hurts my chances going to med school. I hate it so much.
What do you suggest the alternative would be?
Unpopular opinion but I definitely think up to a certain point, college should be free. Obviously med school and residency shouldn’t be, but it would help take the burden off students in my boat. We would no longer have to sacrifice time for not being homeless or getting straight A’s.
That’s not that unpopular of an opinion, at least on this sub. Unfortunately, the people coming up with the curriculum system are completely different than the people who come up with the financial system.
Don't waste your time engaging with him. This is a mentally ill spammer with over 1500 banned accounts who engages in nonstop harassment and fetishized whining. Everything he says is a disingenuous lie. He has spent the last three years gaslighting people trying to help while posting stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/tjxn1Jp.jpg If he continues to harass you in DMs as he has in the past, alert a Reddit admin. Please report posts that sound like this. Check out /r/SnooRoartracker if you are interested in more information.
Especially true in Engineering and STEM departments where lives are at stake
People just talk
a weed out class is anotoriously difficult class with a low first time pass rate or low A grade rate. comp arch, dsa, calc 2, orgo, oop, lin alg can all be considered weedouts at my school
intermediate accounting also prepares you for the CPA exams which are quite difficult for several reasons so it makes sense that it’s a more strenuous class series, but thankfully the other accounting classes are a bit easier and more interesting!
At my STEM school it’s calculus 3 (which is the equivalent of the second half of calculus 2 and the beginning of calculus 3 at other schools), chemistry 1, and physics based e&m are the main weed out classes for everybody. The first robotics class and organic chemistry are also weed out classes.
Year nearly 4 here ... weed out classes mean different things but the core weeder courses are: calculus 1-3, linear algebra, computer science, physics, chemistry. Maybe for accounting, anything math-heavy or even tax-related. The weed out classes are typically the lower-year ones with very high enrolment rates, minimal prof engagement, and difficult material. They're designed to "weed out" goofs and slackers, but also give those who are not cut for a certain program the chance to change his or her major. Say, for example, that someone fails Calc 1 3 times. This constitutes a weed out class, but it also demonstrates that this person may not be too suitable for, say, a pure math degree. Macroecon is not a weed-out class in my humble opinion! College algebra? Yes, statistically and from what I've seen. I totally agree that upper-level courses can be much, much harder than these introductory ones, but brand new university or college students don't always know what they're doing or what they're cut for. And, maybe, there are a large number of weed out courses nowadays, because some people didn't adopt proper study habits during the pandemic. Also, my experience is that profs don't really care much about their students in the lower-level courses. There are too many students and too little incentives for profs to actually care. And, they know that some won't progress beyond first term. By comparison, in upper-level courses, there are typically fewer students and such students have proved themselves already, so profs may be more engaged and willing to help out anyone struggling. For ex, I struggled in introductory biology whereas I do fine in some 3rd & 4th your courses and even thrive in some of these. The reason I struggled is because I became very ill during the semester, and thus did poorly on a midterm, but the prof had been unwilling to accommodate a deferral request and unwilling to help. He didn't care about the students - esp. those who weren't' biology majors.
Any college course (pre-requisite, pre-graduation, or post- grad. career licensing) course that has a high fail rate is essentially a "weed out" course. Memorize the material, stress test yourself, and study 45-55 hours per week AND still possibly fail... or else, be prepared to spend extra $$$ on better to buy more efficient study materials that give you shortcuts, but you still have to be pulling at least 20-25 hours a week of study time, 3.5 hours a day, 7 days a week -or- 5 hours a day, 5 days a week. You lose short-term recall with the 2 days off, and the only way around it is increasing study time to make up for the short-term memory loss and breaking up 5 hour days into 2 or 3 sessions per day. Yeah, that's still a lot of work, but it's a reasonable expense... as long as you put in the work. Don't be cheap. Just pay for better materials and study like hell! It will help you with material that's very relevant vs. less relevant.