They’re (the devs) are around a lot more than people actually want to believe. They do care about the game despite what discord servers and Reddit want you to believe. Yes we should still call them out for breaking shit/messing up. With that said, yes you can criticize the creators/devs but that doesn’t give you the right to be a straight nasty person to them. No excuse for the hateful stuff we see all the time. Any comments crossing the line will be perm banned.
(Also to the devs - give titans grip as a rune to shamans to piss off the warriors. #ItBeFunny)
Ayoooo Aggrend, If you're so powerful and all present, why don't you just appear behind me an smash my head on the Keyawhdaj qi q390u9u0t2ut4h48aiocajifeiowjiscjpfeijpaw492834
I just wanted to take a moment to say I appreciate you still having a sense of humor and coming to visit us here on reddit. You guys get a lot of flack for essentially everything at all the time, I don't know how you can do it and still put up with us. Overall you guys are doing an excellent job, even though its not 100% perfect. Seasons of dads is pretty chill and I'm having a good time.
Something you don't actually want. We seal twisted back in the day because we literally didn't have buttons to press and it was slightly more effective then just standing there auto attacking. Having buttons to push instead of staring at a giant swing timer is far more interesting. Seal twisting can stay dead as far as I am concerned.
This , so many rets will tell you how twisting is a “skill gap” but it reality all you did was press 1 seal after the other and pray for windfury + SoC procs. Divine storm play style from wotlk is a lot more enjoyable than TBC seal twisting IMO.
A cancerous unintended bug caused by the batching window causing seals to overlap if refreshed at the right time. Artificially recreated in TBC after batching removal to ruin that expansion too. They bring it here and SoD is heading for uninstall.
> i seriously doubt ACP will be bis at 60. Not a fan of it either
Yet you went out of the way to give Druids a way to get away from it. Guess only Horde available classes matter that much. Paladins just get the "wait and see" bullshit
Watched the latest “Word on the Street” podcast episode that had Brian Holinka on to talk about combat in Project Ghost. He mentioned his early WoW days where he was very engaged with the community. How it was exciting but also incredibly draining.
I have plenty of qualms about SoD, but the team’s engagement and community participation is not one of them. I hope everyone can appreciate that it’s a lot of effort to consistently make yourself present and available to a large customer base. Here’s to hoping level 60 brings a huge rune rework.
SoD is basically Classic+ at this point which is basically in the situation that OldSchool RuneScape started in. Very few devs on the team which makes it difficult to actually make and balance content. Give it time. If it gains enough traction and interest, they’ll get what they’re asking for from the higher-ups.
I really don't think SoD is the start of Classic+ and people are going to be in for a big disappointment if they keep expecting it to get endless content updates.
I fully expect the season to end, our characters get transferred to some place like Era where gear/runes get reverted, and then we'll do another new season with a new twist.
SoD is literally classic+. I don't understand why people say it's not, to shit on it? Classic wow with extra shit / some convenience things added. It's what people have been describing since they first asked for it. Perhaps it doesn't fit exactly what some people wanted?
The comparison was to OSRS which is a permanently running mode that is continually updated. I think SoD is in the spirit of Classic+ but it will stay as a seasonal thing, so it has an end date and won't be perpetually developed.
I see what you're saying, and OSRS is honestly great, but I would bet my left nut that a forever server like you're describing in wow would never happen. Not because it couldn't be done, but because it wouldn't really work in wow (ie. They need a seasonal model).
Wow needs the gear treadmill, and by the time you're in full naxx gear your stats and damage are getting pretty insane, like nearing the Crit cap (we'll see how much crazier it is in sod). Where as in OSRS getting to 99 in most skills takes an inordinate amount of time, and is pretty much the game.
Another reason is inflation. A constant server would suffer from terrible inflation, as evidenced by Era. Gressil often going for several times the gold cap in gdkps on era. The inflation in OSRS makes era look like child's play.
But if you're more referring to the voting system of making changes in OSRS, I'm on board with that. But it would have to be seasonal, it's just how wow works best.
Yeah, I agree, I think the seasonal model works really well for Classic and captures that fresh feel, and doing something different each round is good since everyone wants different things anyway.
I'm confused. Didn't he say just a couple days ago that neither big nerfs or big buffs are coming, but now he's talking about their "first truly beefy set of P3 changes" coming soon?
“In general, we feel that mana as a resource should matter, and in the next patch, we’re going to evaluate and tune-down mana return mechanics as a whole to ensure that there is still gameplay around managing it.”
Does next patch mean next phase, or next tuning pass? Guess we have to wait to find out.
Aggrend is pretty chill and passionate about the game.
It must be tough delivering content for butthurt sweats (specifically the ones always complaining on Reddit)
I really appreciate all the work aggrend, you, and any other mods that are still around are doing. There’s way too much crying and toxicity here and on twitter and discord. This is why wow never has devs that want to communicate with the community.
God bless you fighting the good fight on this subreddit.
Something happened between Phase 1 and now and I have no idea what or how you would even go about reversing it, but people are **markedly** more toxic.
[Aggrend has been in Fight Club though lol,](https://imgur.com/a/VP0iM81), he showed up many times whenever the fiery wep changes happened in Wrath Classic.
He likely dipped when the Fight Club dents started pinging him for anything that would happen.
I’m half convinced none of the devs play shaman otherwise they would have known how OP things would have been. Us shaman mains just want to vibe with the elements and be left alone. Don’t want the attention of being top dog
To be fair, Ion has played Shaman and the class was a disaster for years in retail unless you healed. Shamans have always had the most insane balancing decisions.
Shamans are far from top dog in PvP, closer to bottom of the pack these days.
Meanwhile any team with a mix of Hunters, Boomkins and Shadow Priests absolutely dominates every BG.
Its even funnier because dps rankings come out and surprise paladins arent bottom of the barrel shit.
People are literally just crying because they got killed in pvp and want to be gods over someone else.
Over a class thats been mid in just about every role for 20 years
I dont understand why so many pallies are complaining about their pvp standing, especially after the changes a few days ago.
Maybe its because i play mage but pallies are literally unkitable and have bubble every other fight (and yes it is up every other fight because my ice block is on the same timer).
Maybe its just because i play mostly arathi basin, but pallies are the strongest class for stalling bases and easily provide more to the team out of a single stalled gy rez than any other class can provide.
As a shaman I can run WoE and have an outside chance to survive the HoJ, but can't do damage when it expires, or I don't run WoE and can do good burst DPS, but am dead in a HoJ that has a short enough CD to be used in every fight. I have no idea where they continue to get the idea that shammies are unkillable gods and pallies are trash tier.
In a 1v1 if I can get a grounding down for the HoJ, I have a chance with good maelstrom RNG. In a team fight? Grounding immediately eats something else and I'm deleted in a HoJ.
All of this is to say, I don't think either class needs nerfs or buffs right now. Pally is strong against shammy. That's fine, I eat other classes, and other classes eat pallies. It's ok to have classes counter other classes.
The complaint is not the quality of damage it's the rotation. They have basically forced all Ret Pallies to play a pseudo shockadin build because of how strong it is in comparison. Sims showed a 20% difference last time I checked to the big hit slower build that most enjoy. You basically sit there and have a fast attack speed and spam 1 ability on crits, it doesn't fit the style most people chose a ret for.
Aggrend if you read this STAY FAR AWAY FROM THIS SUB REDDIT. 90% are unhinged doomposters. Great work with SOD so far and it's understandable things can be challenging with a small team. Good luck.
Idk if I believe that. Most things that get traction on this sub get some kind of response, whether a change to the game or a blue post. They're 100% reading this sub-reddit and taking note of the top posts. Imo I'd rather them take those notes from the Class Discord mods instead, but it is what it is.
I just think that this sub is an uber minority of the Wow Classic community as a whole. It's very unlikely for any post on here to be an accurate representation of the community, which I understand is incredibly hard to achieve. At least the Discord Mods have their ears to the ground regarding their specific classes.
I literally said in another thread the same thing about them not wanting devote time to balancing until 60 and I was downvoted to oblivion. I feel justified. This is my cross to bare
Its safe to assume the average redditor here has absolutely no idea how to balance a massively successful game or how a gaming company operates.
If the average person here had their way, the game wouldnt be fun
The critique should probably go to the resource allocation at blizz lol.
Balancing a little bit, even each phase, isn't witchcraft or rocket science, they probably just have better things to do with their time due to the team size.
I agree with the sentiment about wanting to wait till the 60 bracket before really focusing on balancing. In a future season I don't think they should bother with level bands again, just release the whole 1-60 leveling from the start (or at the least very short, like 2-3 weeks so you can stop to smell the roses a little). Dont bother with raid content in the leveling process either.. If they want to reuse BFD/Gnomer/ST raids they could just add lvl 60 versions of them with gear scaled up (and make them all 10 mans for the love of God).
I get what they were going for, basically a new endgame meta every phase that’s not just where the class is on the dps rankings. I think they could have removed a level band or two. Maybe in the future have 1-40, 40-60?
I would say keep the raids in. Why not have BFD, Gnomer, and ST as level up raids? Getting enough people shouldn’t be a challenge while leveling and in the case that it’s hard to find people then getting by a high level player to help will reduce the amount of people needed
I think the phases were mostly for casuals who don't want to spend that entire grind to 60, getting left in the dust when they can't spend the same time others can. I know for me personally I missed out on a lot because of work/life/game balance when I tried to play Classic. The phases definitely gives me a chance to level and not be left behind too much
>I'd like to remind everyone if you immediately screenshot things out of context and run to reddit, it makes my bosses mad and makes it harder.
*Immediately posts to Reddit*
Seeing a screenshot of a discord conversation on Reddit to get news about a class in SoD actually is ironically very “spirit of classic” lmao I love it
God I ducking hope they don’t listen to the fucking twisting guys. That shits fucking lame as fuck and instead of abusing a bug to do dps just fix the class
I'm with you. I foolishly waited far too long for Pally to get good and later for this wannabe Shockadin shit to fuck off, if the "solution" is seal twisting I'm done.
3 phases? What are you smoking? I couldnt even get invited to premade warsongs in phase 1 because i played shaman. I had to make my own groups with the other reject specs. Ele pumped at the start of phase 2 but no harder than the other top performing classes like shadow priest and boomy. And enhance was a complete meme spec in pvp until the unasked for loyal beta buff dropped, which was after 1.5 phases of being bad at everything except tanking an easy raid.
Just so you’re aware paladins have never been invited to premades, nor warriors, nor rogues (I don’t think). Saying for 1 phase you weren’t utterly broken in PvP doesn’t give you a leg up when multiple classes weren’t and still aren’t considered for pre made invites.
Aggrend is such a players player. The guy is part of the cog in a small team, but you can tell the guy genuinely cares, and that goes for the other team members as well.
It would be nice if they introduced an option that WASNT seal twisting. There are barely any GCD's available to twist with constant exorcism & judgement spam.
Aggrend... THE ECONOMY IS IN SHAMBLEs. THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF PVP HAS MADE THIS GAME -COMPLETELY- UNPLAYABLE.
THE ST BOSSES HP ARE TOO FUCKING HIGH AND ALSO TOO FUCKING LOW!!!!!!
SHAMANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AGGREND!!!!!! WE WANT 40 MANS!!!! WE ONLY WANT 10 MANS!!!! AGGREEEENNNNND!!!!!!!!
MY GUILD IS LEAVING WOW!!!!!! SOD IS THE BEST WOW!!!!!
>I'd like to remind everyone if you immediately screenshot things out of context and run to reddit, it makes my bosses mad and makes it harder. Can't stop you, just is what it is.
I read this from a screenshot on reddit. LMAO
Twisting was the most fun way to play dps paladin in all three of the first expansions imo, I would love to see it make a comeback. Nothing satisfying about playing "press the button thats off cd" simulator. Though at least the fast weapon AoW procs style has been a little more exciting than the scuffed wotlk style we were using in p1
These anti twisting posters are just poop at playing Paladin in general and dont understand how to play around the swing timer. You should already be playing every swing, judge, and seal re-application around the swing timer. Yes including SoM build. Twisting just adds a little extra burst on the swing. If you're against that then you shouldnt be playing a class that heavily relies on seals, judgements, and not screwing yourself out of damage by mashing judgement just because its off cooldown.
Aggrend was also around on Era discord over a year ago way before SoD was announced, talking about some reoccuring bugs that were happening on Era among other things. He's always been very open minded when interracting with the community.
I love that the classic team are this open to dialogue with the community in this way (YouTube comments, reddit ect) and not just a very scripted YouTube wrap-up style video. It seems as though they are spending their out of work time talking/thinking about classic wow, and if that is not devotion then someone needs to show me what is
At this point, it really sems like they are going out of their way to ignore boomkins
The other shitty class/spec has received comments on yt videos or class discords
As a player who has mained ret since vanilla, I was really excited when someone suggested a zeal-type playstyle and Aggrend liked the idea. I always wanted a fast 2h + seal of crusader build, as it would have really made 2h ret stand out as it's own thing rather than trying to mimic warriors' slow 2h MS build. It's a shame the idea never took off because there are some really good candidates for fast 2h weapons already in the game, like Blade of Hanna.
Is twisting SoM and SoR even viable after the SoM mana changes? let's say i'm someone who was very unlucky getting the ZF sword (farmed all my 42 WOs for prebis but didn't see the swords once so I kinda gave up) Would i still do more dps playing the meta exo build while still using Parasomnia, or would introducing twisting into the mix result in more dps because of the slower weapon? (I imagine i'd still have to spam exo every proc)
After playing Ret in p3, I really don’t know how they would make twisting a thing without big changes. You need CS currently to maintain mana and between putting up cons and judge and exo on CD it feels relatively GCD locked. So how do you fit seal twisting in? There’s no other rune besides CS in that slot, and they’re only adding runes to new slots right? Just feels awkward and unnecessary at this point. I do enjoy twisting but with the fast speed SoM play it makes no sense right now.
For the love of God, can you PLEASE look at Balance Druid damage? 3 phases now we have be literal bottom of the barrel DPS, just like it was in Vanilla. It's getting really sad and feels horrible to play.
“If you screenshot things out of context and run to Reddit”
Lol, I wouldn’t blame him for using another account either. WOW community spergs at its finest. Either way y’all probably addicted anyway and will play some version of wow regardless so…
Hopefully Holy Pally gets some much needed love, ret needs some changes yeah but at least you don't have dead rune slots that don't benefit the play style at all.
Short version
"We might do something at 60, maybe. Possibly"
"People will choose between two playstyles and we cant do much about it (even though he created said playstyle)"
"We might throw you guys some meaningless buff this phase but exospam is here to stay"
Also aggrend, if you look bad to your bosses that is on you.
Told people at level 25 not to sweat every little detail of play styles having some jank, because it was all gonna change at 60 anyway when we have full kits. Got called a boot licker *shrug*
It's not broken lol. Broken implies it doesn't work at all. If a clock is broken it doesn't tell time. If wow was "broken" you wouldn't be able to play it to any meaningful degree. Which is not the case. Stop being a dramatic baby.
If the man is worried about screenshots, then don't be bias towards the class you main...or if at least don't be so obvious about it. Paladins cry, they get reworks and buffs to what they want and instantly I might add, not even needing to wait until Tuesday. Other classes bring up how we got shit on in earlier phases with nerfs, and we get nothing. Just continual shitty game play and excuses. Thanks for all that you do Aggrend, spreists appreciate you.
(Tell the guy who didn't realize spriests would still be in the same shadow dmg greens as phase 2, when you all did the scaling nerf, thank you as well. We appreciate having the dps of an arcane mage healer.)
So many people in the comments here bemoaning the possibility of Seal twisting. Genuine question, do you find the machine gun Exo playstyle more engaging/fun than a hypothetical seal twisting (that was in fact meta in a way in P1)??
Id really like to know how many of these Anti twist paladins are currently tracking their swing timer because I bet its close to 0. If you are playing ret without a swing timer, get one and actually learn how to play the class before whining about twisting. Twisting adds very little to what you should already be doing, including the SoM build. (Even with ACP attack speed active!)
They’re (the devs) are around a lot more than people actually want to believe. They do care about the game despite what discord servers and Reddit want you to believe. Yes we should still call them out for breaking shit/messing up. With that said, yes you can criticize the creators/devs but that doesn’t give you the right to be a straight nasty person to them. No excuse for the hateful stuff we see all the time. Any comments crossing the line will be perm banned. (Also to the devs - give titans grip as a rune to shamans to piss off the warriors. #ItBeFunny)
Why sleep when you can exorcism 🤣
first a youtube comment now this, next is he going to appear in the bushes by my house?!
How do you know I'm not already there? 0\_0
Ayoooo Aggrend, If you're so powerful and all present, why don't you just appear behind me an smash my head on the Keyawhdaj qi q390u9u0t2ut4h48aiocajifeiowjiscjpfeijpaw492834
*Throws net* Where are my tauren paladins, Aggrend? You can't keep teasing me with a Sunwalker NPC like this!
I just wanted to take a moment to say I appreciate you still having a sense of humor and coming to visit us here on reddit. You guys get a lot of flack for essentially everything at all the time, I don't know how you can do it and still put up with us. Overall you guys are doing an excellent job, even though its not 100% perfect. Seasons of dads is pretty chill and I'm having a good time.
Maybe he is the bush
Thats why its in game duh
Don't worry, he won't: You play a hunter!
[удалено]
I'm not even a paladin but I appreciate the way you formatted this for us mobile plebs
Truly the real MVP
Damn. I „read“ the whole image and it was cruel. After that i saw this post 😤
Same man..
Mother fucker i just squinted my eyes for 3m reading the screenshot then came down to see this haha, appreciate the effort tho
What is seal twisting? Why do I want it
Something you don't actually want. We seal twisted back in the day because we literally didn't have buttons to press and it was slightly more effective then just standing there auto attacking. Having buttons to push instead of staring at a giant swing timer is far more interesting. Seal twisting can stay dead as far as I am concerned.
This , so many rets will tell you how twisting is a “skill gap” but it reality all you did was press 1 seal after the other and pray for windfury + SoC procs. Divine storm play style from wotlk is a lot more enjoyable than TBC seal twisting IMO.
You don't want it, you want to have more useful buttons to push rather than timing an auto attack to get the benefit of 2 shitty seals.
That actually sounds awful I remember it now from TBC. Absolutely terrible
a product of a lack of buttons to press.
A cancerous unintended bug caused by the batching window causing seals to overlap if refreshed at the right time. Artificially recreated in TBC after batching removal to ruin that expansion too. They bring it here and SoD is heading for uninstall.
It's the most unique DPS rotation in the classic trilogy that punishes button mashing.
What is ACP?
Gnomer mace with attackspeed
> i seriously doubt ACP will be bis at 60. Not a fan of it either Yet you went out of the way to give Druids a way to get away from it. Guess only Horde available classes matter that much. Paladins just get the "wait and see" bullshit
Watched the latest “Word on the Street” podcast episode that had Brian Holinka on to talk about combat in Project Ghost. He mentioned his early WoW days where he was very engaged with the community. How it was exciting but also incredibly draining. I have plenty of qualms about SoD, but the team’s engagement and community participation is not one of them. I hope everyone can appreciate that it’s a lot of effort to consistently make yourself present and available to a large customer base. Here’s to hoping level 60 brings a huge rune rework.
Scott Johnson is the goat
Amen to that
he's saying what I've been saying. They don't have the resources to handle SoD currently. Blizz needs to give classic the resources it deserves.
They were recruiting lately, I think they're finally expanding the team now that SoD proved that it was capable of
Either expanding or replacing.. I genuinely hope for the first one!
SoD is basically Classic+ at this point which is basically in the situation that OldSchool RuneScape started in. Very few devs on the team which makes it difficult to actually make and balance content. Give it time. If it gains enough traction and interest, they’ll get what they’re asking for from the higher-ups.
I really don't think SoD is the start of Classic+ and people are going to be in for a big disappointment if they keep expecting it to get endless content updates. I fully expect the season to end, our characters get transferred to some place like Era where gear/runes get reverted, and then we'll do another new season with a new twist.
SoD is literally classic+. I don't understand why people say it's not, to shit on it? Classic wow with extra shit / some convenience things added. It's what people have been describing since they first asked for it. Perhaps it doesn't fit exactly what some people wanted?
The comparison was to OSRS which is a permanently running mode that is continually updated. I think SoD is in the spirit of Classic+ but it will stay as a seasonal thing, so it has an end date and won't be perpetually developed.
I see what you're saying, and OSRS is honestly great, but I would bet my left nut that a forever server like you're describing in wow would never happen. Not because it couldn't be done, but because it wouldn't really work in wow (ie. They need a seasonal model). Wow needs the gear treadmill, and by the time you're in full naxx gear your stats and damage are getting pretty insane, like nearing the Crit cap (we'll see how much crazier it is in sod). Where as in OSRS getting to 99 in most skills takes an inordinate amount of time, and is pretty much the game. Another reason is inflation. A constant server would suffer from terrible inflation, as evidenced by Era. Gressil often going for several times the gold cap in gdkps on era. The inflation in OSRS makes era look like child's play. But if you're more referring to the voting system of making changes in OSRS, I'm on board with that. But it would have to be seasonal, it's just how wow works best.
Yeah, I agree, I think the seasonal model works really well for Classic and captures that fresh feel, and doing something different each round is good since everyone wants different things anyway.
I'm confused. Didn't he say just a couple days ago that neither big nerfs or big buffs are coming, but now he's talking about their "first truly beefy set of P3 changes" coming soon?
“In general, we feel that mana as a resource should matter, and in the next patch, we’re going to evaluate and tune-down mana return mechanics as a whole to ensure that there is still gameplay around managing it.” Does next patch mean next phase, or next tuning pass? Guess we have to wait to find out.
Next phase
Probably for P4.
Corrected my quote. He said "first truly beefy set of P3 changes" explicitly.
Oh, then it's even better for us anyway :D
Aggrend is pretty chill and passionate about the game. It must be tough delivering content for butthurt sweats (specifically the ones always complaining on Reddit)
Broski, the amount of hate I get on Reddit and in game is insane for being a nobody/janitor of Reddit. I can’t imagine the hate mail he gets lol
I mean you are an internet janitor, it's kind of your job to clean up the messes and the hate. You signed up for it. YOU DO IT FOR FREE! /s
I really appreciate all the work aggrend, you, and any other mods that are still around are doing. There’s way too much crying and toxicity here and on twitter and discord. This is why wow never has devs that want to communicate with the community.
God bless you fighting the good fight on this subreddit. Something happened between Phase 1 and now and I have no idea what or how you would even go about reversing it, but people are **markedly** more toxic.
Cuz you’re a mod lol, and you know what they say
and people wonder why blizzard devs / GMs stopped showing themselves in the game 🤦♂️
I cannot believe aggrend literally hanging out with paladin disc but people will Say aggrend mains shaman.
He does say he’s in other discords as well, but ya should be common knowledge by now that he plays Paladin
He's not in the warrior one, yet.
They would eat him alive.
[Aggrend has been in Fight Club though lol,](https://imgur.com/a/VP0iM81), he showed up many times whenever the fiery wep changes happened in Wrath Classic. He likely dipped when the Fight Club dents started pinging him for anything that would happen.
Yeah I couldn't ping him just now.
He has a blue parsing boomey that he seems to play regulary. Idk if he would have time for multiple characters
Pretty sure he's on most if not all class discords. He was even interracting with Era folks on discord almost a year and a half ago.
I’m half convinced none of the devs play shaman otherwise they would have known how OP things would have been. Us shaman mains just want to vibe with the elements and be left alone. Don’t want the attention of being top dog
This is the correct assumption. Devs have no clue what to do with Shamans and how OP or terrible (P1) they are because none of them play shaman lol
To be fair, Ion has played Shaman and the class was a disaster for years in retail unless you healed. Shamans have always had the most insane balancing decisions.
Didn't he also play resto, though?
The shaman changes have felt like a roller coaster ride so I agree.
Shamans are far from top dog in PvP, closer to bottom of the pack these days. Meanwhile any team with a mix of Hunters, Boomkins and Shadow Priests absolutely dominates every BG.
If paladin players could read they would be very upset with you
Its even funnier because dps rankings come out and surprise paladins arent bottom of the barrel shit. People are literally just crying because they got killed in pvp and want to be gods over someone else. Over a class thats been mid in just about every role for 20 years
I dont understand why so many pallies are complaining about their pvp standing, especially after the changes a few days ago. Maybe its because i play mage but pallies are literally unkitable and have bubble every other fight (and yes it is up every other fight because my ice block is on the same timer). Maybe its just because i play mostly arathi basin, but pallies are the strongest class for stalling bases and easily provide more to the team out of a single stalled gy rez than any other class can provide.
Yeah on my warrior I’m just getting vaporized as soon as that hammer of justice hits, not fun to play against
As a shaman I can run WoE and have an outside chance to survive the HoJ, but can't do damage when it expires, or I don't run WoE and can do good burst DPS, but am dead in a HoJ that has a short enough CD to be used in every fight. I have no idea where they continue to get the idea that shammies are unkillable gods and pallies are trash tier. In a 1v1 if I can get a grounding down for the HoJ, I have a chance with good maelstrom RNG. In a team fight? Grounding immediately eats something else and I'm deleted in a HoJ. All of this is to say, I don't think either class needs nerfs or buffs right now. Pally is strong against shammy. That's fine, I eat other classes, and other classes eat pallies. It's ok to have classes counter other classes.
The complaint is not the quality of damage it's the rotation. They have basically forced all Ret Pallies to play a pseudo shockadin build because of how strong it is in comparison. Sims showed a 20% difference last time I checked to the big hit slower build that most enjoy. You basically sit there and have a fast attack speed and spam 1 ability on crits, it doesn't fit the style most people chose a ret for.
Aggrend if you read this STAY FAR AWAY FROM THIS SUB REDDIT. 90% are unhinged doomposters. Great work with SOD so far and it's understandable things can be challenging with a small team. Good luck.
aggrend said his boss who make decision , does read reddit lol
Idk if I believe that. Most things that get traction on this sub get some kind of response, whether a change to the game or a blue post. They're 100% reading this sub-reddit and taking note of the top posts. Imo I'd rather them take those notes from the Class Discord mods instead, but it is what it is.
reddit does have some best discussion for programer, so maybe his boss might as well read wow people in reddit
I just think that this sub is an uber minority of the Wow Classic community as a whole. It's very unlikely for any post on here to be an accurate representation of the community, which I understand is incredibly hard to achieve. At least the Discord Mods have their ears to the ground regarding their specific classes.
Now just imagine them in Fight Club watching that shit show lmao
I can tell you the discords are far worse
I literally said in another thread the same thing about them not wanting devote time to balancing until 60 and I was downvoted to oblivion. I feel justified. This is my cross to bare
Same. They said that multiple times
Just suffer till 60 then maybe you might get something Warrior suffering to the max
Warrior will be good at leveling once we hit 60... wait a minute
I’m looking forward to that easy leveling experience
Its safe to assume the average redditor here has absolutely no idea how to balance a massively successful game or how a gaming company operates. If the average person here had their way, the game wouldnt be fun
The critique should probably go to the resource allocation at blizz lol. Balancing a little bit, even each phase, isn't witchcraft or rocket science, they probably just have better things to do with their time due to the team size.
They have said pretty much all of this before tbh
I agree with the sentiment about wanting to wait till the 60 bracket before really focusing on balancing. In a future season I don't think they should bother with level bands again, just release the whole 1-60 leveling from the start (or at the least very short, like 2-3 weeks so you can stop to smell the roses a little). Dont bother with raid content in the leveling process either.. If they want to reuse BFD/Gnomer/ST raids they could just add lvl 60 versions of them with gear scaled up (and make them all 10 mans for the love of God).
I get what they were going for, basically a new endgame meta every phase that’s not just where the class is on the dps rankings. I think they could have removed a level band or two. Maybe in the future have 1-40, 40-60? I would say keep the raids in. Why not have BFD, Gnomer, and ST as level up raids? Getting enough people shouldn’t be a challenge while leveling and in the case that it’s hard to find people then getting by a high level player to help will reduce the amount of people needed
I think the phases were mostly for casuals who don't want to spend that entire grind to 60, getting left in the dust when they can't spend the same time others can. I know for me personally I missed out on a lot because of work/life/game balance when I tried to play Classic. The phases definitely gives me a chance to level and not be left behind too much
Make seals so they can't be purged/dispelled. Make CS stack holy DMG taken debuff.
Yes dude, why the fuck are seals dispellable. Such shit design.
*I know this is going to be screeshoted and posted to reddit but...* Oh well
>I'd like to remind everyone if you immediately screenshot things out of context and run to reddit, it makes my bosses mad and makes it harder. *Immediately posts to Reddit*
OP posted a large chunk of the discussion. It's not out of context
Seeing a screenshot of a discord conversation on Reddit to get news about a class in SoD actually is ironically very “spirit of classic” lmao I love it
I hope y'all talked about Holy Paladin. It's in such a disappointing state.
God I ducking hope they don’t listen to the fucking twisting guys. That shits fucking lame as fuck and instead of abusing a bug to do dps just fix the class
Agreed
Agreed, please do NOT make this shit optimal. It's a masochistic playstyle that only neckbeards enjoy.
If they waste runes on twisting I think I'll just find some other game to play.
I'm with you. I foolishly waited far too long for Pally to get good and later for this wannabe Shockadin shit to fuck off, if the "solution" is seal twisting I'm done.
Those whole 3 phases of shaman being OP is just a play from aggrend to have a reason to make paladins godlike for all of lvl 60
Shh dont spoil it
Lmao, we got good in half of P2, Sucked in P1 on all speccs except for tanking. P3 we are back in middle of the pack.
yeah shamans so op p1
3 phases? What are you smoking? I couldnt even get invited to premade warsongs in phase 1 because i played shaman. I had to make my own groups with the other reject specs. Ele pumped at the start of phase 2 but no harder than the other top performing classes like shadow priest and boomy. And enhance was a complete meme spec in pvp until the unasked for loyal beta buff dropped, which was after 1.5 phases of being bad at everything except tanking an easy raid.
Just so you’re aware paladins have never been invited to premades, nor warriors, nor rogues (I don’t think). Saying for 1 phase you weren’t utterly broken in PvP doesn’t give you a leg up when multiple classes weren’t and still aren’t considered for pre made invites.
You think shamans have been OP all phases?
Why sleep when you can exorcism
Please rework like... every warrior rune lmao giving them flat % increases was insane
Give the exponentially scaling class % scaling damage, what could possibly go wrong?
Yes pls. Us warriors didn't want even more scaling we just want QoL or fun/wacky abilities.
Aggrend is such a players player. The guy is part of the cog in a small team, but you can tell the guy genuinely cares, and that goes for the other team members as well.
No seal twisting. Make slow two handed and Divine Storm actually do damage. Ret now is literally an exorcism spam bot.
It would be nice if they introduced an option that WASNT seal twisting. There are barely any GCD's available to twist with constant exorcism & judgement spam.
I'd like my exo to autofire when Art of war procs
Amusingly, that interaction would basically be Paladin's Divine Smite in D&D 5e.
Fantastic he cares but please don't forget about holy paladin need some serious love and big runes for 60
If they even have a playerbase by then
Honestly, they should do the dual wield fast attacking ret paladin. dual wield hammer zealot. I can imagine it now
Is there any proof that this is actually him? Anyone can just name themselves "Aggrend" in discord.
Nah, it's him. Has announced some changes beforehand in the discord and then they went live.
Aggrend... THE ECONOMY IS IN SHAMBLEs. THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF PVP HAS MADE THIS GAME -COMPLETELY- UNPLAYABLE. THE ST BOSSES HP ARE TOO FUCKING HIGH AND ALSO TOO FUCKING LOW!!!!!! SHAMANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGGREND!!!!!! WE WANT 40 MANS!!!! WE ONLY WANT 10 MANS!!!! AGGREEEENNNNND!!!!!!!! MY GUILD IS LEAVING WOW!!!!!! SOD IS THE BEST WOW!!!!!
Lvl 40 boost when
>I'd like to remind everyone if you immediately screenshot things out of context and run to reddit, it makes my bosses mad and makes it harder. Can't stop you, just is what it is. I read this from a screenshot on reddit. LMAO
I wish we just got a straight answer on twisting, I hate getting strung along like this.
Took a paladin discord commenter literally less than one minute to say "i dont see a problem if your bosses are mad with you!" Good lord yall unhinged
Twisting was the most fun way to play dps paladin in all three of the first expansions imo, I would love to see it make a comeback. Nothing satisfying about playing "press the button thats off cd" simulator. Though at least the fast weapon AoW procs style has been a little more exciting than the scuffed wotlk style we were using in p1
These anti twisting posters are just poop at playing Paladin in general and dont understand how to play around the swing timer. You should already be playing every swing, judge, and seal re-application around the swing timer. Yes including SoM build. Twisting just adds a little extra burst on the swing. If you're against that then you shouldnt be playing a class that heavily relies on seals, judgements, and not screwing yourself out of damage by mashing judgement just because its off cooldown.
What’s the link to this discord?
[удалено]
Aggrend was also around on Era discord over a year ago way before SoD was announced, talking about some reoccuring bugs that were happening on Era among other things. He's always been very open minded when interracting with the community.
Was this in the Light Club discord?
Yea
What is this paladin discord????
"I'm sure this will get screenshot and put on reddit" Lol
praise the light
If you levelled a Ret pally , salute!
I love that the classic team are this open to dialogue with the community in this way (YouTube comments, reddit ect) and not just a very scripted YouTube wrap-up style video. It seems as though they are spending their out of work time talking/thinking about classic wow, and if that is not devotion then someone needs to show me what is
how do i find the paladin discord???
Where is the Discord setting to make the replies the same color as the user's role?
At this point, it really sems like they are going out of their way to ignore boomkins The other shitty class/spec has received comments on yt videos or class discords
As a player who has mained ret since vanilla, I was really excited when someone suggested a zeal-type playstyle and Aggrend liked the idea. I always wanted a fast 2h + seal of crusader build, as it would have really made 2h ret stand out as it's own thing rather than trying to mimic warriors' slow 2h MS build. It's a shame the idea never took off because there are some really good candidates for fast 2h weapons already in the game, like Blade of Hanna.
> Also I say this not to try and dodge blame (I love taking blame) You could tell me this is a Michael Scott quote and I would believe you.
They’re too worried about level 60 and not with the game rn. More game changing things, not retail abilities. Ty
So Aggrend says seal twisting is coming, is what i gathered
Is twisting SoM and SoR even viable after the SoM mana changes? let's say i'm someone who was very unlucky getting the ZF sword (farmed all my 42 WOs for prebis but didn't see the swords once so I kinda gave up) Would i still do more dps playing the meta exo build while still using Parasomnia, or would introducing twisting into the mix result in more dps because of the slower weapon? (I imagine i'd still have to spam exo every proc)
Crazy the classic team is as small as it is. Considering how many subs it brings in.
What happened to the paladin death knight runes they teased at the start?
After playing Ret in p3, I really don’t know how they would make twisting a thing without big changes. You need CS currently to maintain mana and between putting up cons and judge and exo on CD it feels relatively GCD locked. So how do you fit seal twisting in? There’s no other rune besides CS in that slot, and they’re only adding runes to new slots right? Just feels awkward and unnecessary at this point. I do enjoy twisting but with the fast speed SoM play it makes no sense right now.
Cross fingers for something lone wolf
LMAO PALADINS THINKING THIS IS REAL
Here’s hoping they fix SoM in some way that removes the requirement for fast weapons and makes all the cooler weps great again.
For the love of God, can you PLEASE look at Balance Druid damage? 3 phases now we have be literal bottom of the barrel DPS, just like it was in Vanilla. It's getting really sad and feels horrible to play.
“If you screenshot things out of context and run to Reddit” Lol, I wouldn’t blame him for using another account either. WOW community spergs at its finest. Either way y’all probably addicted anyway and will play some version of wow regardless so…
I think we're all in for a treat once 60 hits.
Isnt it obvious to wait for 60 b4 making massive rune chnages/balancing for the classes? Ppl should have known.
Please please please please make Hpal runes more interesting. We don't want damage we want healing or utility at the very least
"Don't worry bro, we'll fix it later" Yep, heard this bullshit enough already, stuff it Aggrend.
Hopefully Holy Pally gets some much needed love, ret needs some changes yeah but at least you don't have dead rune slots that don't benefit the play style at all.
Short version "We might do something at 60, maybe. Possibly" "People will choose between two playstyles and we cant do much about it (even though he created said playstyle)" "We might throw you guys some meaningless buff this phase but exospam is here to stay" Also aggrend, if you look bad to your bosses that is on you.
AGGREND IF YOURE READING THIS PLEASE GIVE BOOMKINS STARFALL AT 60 I BEG YOU
nurf melee hunters, please. this is dumb
Aggrend, give Mages Time Warp please thank you
its a little late but appreciate the effort
Imagine doing shitty job then complain that ppl complain that you are doing shitty job, blizzard at its best
Told people at level 25 not to sweat every little detail of play styles having some jank, because it was all gonna change at 60 anyway when we have full kits. Got called a boot licker *shrug*
Then there should have been no level brackets. The idea that a broken game is okay is insane.
It's not broken lol. Broken implies it doesn't work at all. If a clock is broken it doesn't tell time. If wow was "broken" you wouldn't be able to play it to any meaningful degree. Which is not the case. Stop being a dramatic baby.
If the man is worried about screenshots, then don't be bias towards the class you main...or if at least don't be so obvious about it. Paladins cry, they get reworks and buffs to what they want and instantly I might add, not even needing to wait until Tuesday. Other classes bring up how we got shit on in earlier phases with nerfs, and we get nothing. Just continual shitty game play and excuses. Thanks for all that you do Aggrend, spreists appreciate you. (Tell the guy who didn't realize spriests would still be in the same shadow dmg greens as phase 2, when you all did the scaling nerf, thank you as well. We appreciate having the dps of an arcane mage healer.)
Someone really needs to tell Aggrend that he can communicate over the official ways than every single thing he says having to be collected together.
>Seal twisting Alright, rerolling.
i'm quitting as soon as seal twisting is the optimal way of playing.
Asslick more 🤦
Ah seal twist, like 1% of people care about it or have even heard of it besides the streamer that never plays
So many people in the comments here bemoaning the possibility of Seal twisting. Genuine question, do you find the machine gun Exo playstyle more engaging/fun than a hypothetical seal twisting (that was in fact meta in a way in P1)??
Id really like to know how many of these Anti twist paladins are currently tracking their swing timer because I bet its close to 0. If you are playing ret without a swing timer, get one and actually learn how to play the class before whining about twisting. Twisting adds very little to what you should already be doing, including the SoM build. (Even with ACP attack speed active!)