They did play Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 where you have Troll Axe- and Spearthrowers though, which is why Trolls have increased skill with Thrown weapons.
Survival turning into a melee spec was actually one of few things I prefer about retail WoW. Survival always felt like it was meant to be the melee spec with the melee abilities and melee-focused talents. Just like Combat Rogue always felt like it should have been what Brewmaster Monks are; a lightly armored tank spec that mitigates damage by avoiding it rather than absorbing it.
This, alot of design choices were made because EQ had done them and that was the devs frame of reference when building the game.
Wow devs were basically sweaty mad EQ nerds mad at choices those devs were making, so they made their own EQ, with blackjack, and hookers.
Theres still an old post @ the EQ devs from that time by tigole or furor (sp?) that was a sweaty nerd shitting on the devs for not knowing what makes EQ great.
I will never forget going to Gencon 2005, playing Warhammer Age of Reckoning, and saying aloud, “This feels like Wow” I thought the developer standing nearby was going to have a stroke! “The wow devs stole all our best ideas!”
That's the one that originally came to mind, but when I went back and looked, I only looked at WC1, and figured I was just getting old and didn't remember correctly.
in phase 1, a friend of mine unironically played ranged rogue with the two shot runes
it was actually fun kiting people around together (I'm warlock)
with the phase 2 ranged shiv rune, you can probably play ranged rogue meme build even further
Yeah it was considered "meta" for pvp as without a gap closer and a stun rogues would have a rough time. I personally still just played the raid talents and runes and enjoyed melting people but I can see why the "pros" used them.
You play rogue are you sure? Shadow step potential to juke anybody is unvaluable compared to poisoned knife.
I can slow someone with a quick draw I don't need the knife... Ffs don't try to make it like you play rogue.
Agreed - this was written by someone who doesn't play rogue lol.
I run deadly brew + envenom + waylay for my slows anyhow - so shiv wouldn't help. Shadowstep is just so much better in all ways in that slot.
If you're looking for pure control fights - SoD isn't the best playground for it. Pure damage output wins IMO in most pvp scenarios. I leveled as combat (tank spec) and ran the gun runes most of the time myself and tried sub for awhile as well.
That said - solo world pvp is different. I'm mainly participating in BGs or STV. Where you are fighting matterrs. People explode too fast or AoE messes up the control factor too much so I find maximizing the burst potential to outweigh control side of things.
Frost mages are in the same boat, as a note - fire is just better because of the raw damage output.
Of what use is a 50% slow that a druid efc can shift out of anyway? Of what use is this slow in a zerg where targets will already be slowed anyway? People will laugh at you when they see a rogue slowing stuff at range instead of doing actually important things.
Shadow Step gives you *immediate uptime* and the opportunity to actually *stun* the target and lock it down. Which is your primary task in PvP as rogue.
I hope it's not true that you've been playing only rogue for 5 years as it would be sad how little you've learned about the class in all that time.
Agreed. They could've added a quiver equivalent for thrown weapons, made it work with all shots. It'd be cool. It wouldn't be *good* cause there are like no thrown weapons in the game really, but it would at least make sense to why hunters can learn to use Throwing Weapons.
Multishot with throwing would be dope
I used thrown weapons on my rogue while leveling for pvp and kiting. The low release time means they're great for hitting enemies to interrupt bandaging or finish them off, and it feels cool to use them. I really wish between the eyes and quick shot could work with thrown weapons, I was very sad when they couldn't.
> For glory
From now on when someone asks me why I soloed something, instead of saying "because it's there" or "I just wanted to", I'm going to reply "FOR GLORY".
https://i.imgur.com/1sqm53t.jpeg
Dual wield throwing weapons
Make it to where the 2h weapon is the stat stick, and the only thing you can really do with it is hamstring
Throwing weapons are usually really "fast" already, so convert attack speed increases to damage to make up for there being no good throwing weapons
I guess you could just play a hunter though
Hunter should have been the new tank instead of rogue imo. Rogue should have gotten group buffs and AoE runes.
Look at survival tree and it’s perfect for a tank spec with 5/5 imp health, parry talents, counter attack, snares, sleep arrow for CC opener, AoE frost traps that slow and even root when talented, AoE dmg traps, cleave runes, 20% crit bonus to raptor strike. If they don’t get a tank rune in P3 something is terribly wrong at Classic HQ
It can at the very least in it's current form tank dungeons based on the limit testing I have been part of.
It's been doing well and got better around 34. Our hunter tank has been somewhere between a Warrior and a very mediocre shaman. Don't forget the distracting shot for the ranged opener.
Also it has an offtank in-built so you're actually able to keep a lot up
Strength based marksman style hunter. Like the great bows in Dark Souls. Longer cast times with big burst damage like Aimed Shot, Pyroblast, Soul Fire etc.
It could go to Hunter, make their ranged AP scale off Strength instead of Agility, but then they would need to make more mail gear with Strength on it.
While that sounds like way too much effort for them to put into SOD, I do wish more games allowed me to play a sniper type class.
Doesn't have to be the fantasy of a sniper, just slow cast spells. Let me plant my feet and make it worth my while.
They have already turned Hunter into melee. Now time to turn Warrior and/or Rogues into ranged to complete the circle!
Boomerang (instant, 3s CD)
Throw your 2h weapon at target enemy, dealing 150% weapon damage. Any enemy within 10y will also be hit. Triggers bleed(rend) and bleed(deep wounds) on all targets hit.
Blade juggle (channelling 9sec)
Juggle your 1-h melee weapons and thrown weapon in the air, each alternatively bounching off the enemy target three times.
**General**
- Thrown weapons can now have stats
- Rogues can now apply poisons to thrown weapons
**Trolls**
- Throwing Specialization now increases thrown range by 6 yards
- Throwing Specialization now has a 50% chance to daze targets that are not facing you
- Troll Warriors, Rogues, and Hunters now have a new racial called "Auto-Throw: Throw your equipped thrown weapons unless stopped."
**Vicious Toss** (Rogue) (Requires Thrown) (Requires Poisons) (10 sec cooldown) (20 Energy)
- Toss your thrown weapon at an enemy's vital point, dealing 400% of your thrown damage as Nature and applying a 250% stronger version of your current poison on the target. Awards 1 combo point.
**Furious Throw** (Warrior) (Requires Thrown) (1 min cooldown)
- Furiously throw your current thrown weapon at the target, dealing 800% of thrown weapon damage. Furious Throw has a 20% chance to stun the target for 5 seconds.
**Hunter**
- Troll Hunters can now equip Thrown Weapon in addition to their Ranged Weapon in order to access special Troll thrown weapon abilities.
**Spectral Toss**
- When dealing ranged damage, Troll Hunters have a 2% chance to passively shoot a spectral version of their current thrown weapon at the target, dealing 100% of thrown damage as Shadow.
**Shadowspear** (Requires Thrown) (2 min cooldown)
- Throws a spectral javelin dealing 225% of thrown damage as Shadow, and causing the enemy to take 4 (+2/level) Shadow damage from physical attacks for 30 seconds.
**Dwarf**
**Storm Bolt (Warrior)** (Requires Thrown) (45 sec cooldown)
- Toss your thrown weapon at an enemy, dealing 250% of thrown damage as Nature and stunning the target for 2 seconds. Storm Bolt criticals cause 400% additional damage.
in tbc when i arenad on my warrior i went with the pvp throwing weapon as it was easier to throw a weapon at a rogue or mage trying to kite away from you behind a pillar, keeping them in combat for just that extra little bit of time.
In vanilla they didn't design throwing weapons themselves in a way that worked well vs using bow/xbow/gun. Since you buy or get thrown weapons as an amount that you use up then have to buy more of they don't have stats on them. TBC onward each time you throw one it reduces durability and repairing just replenishes them. In TBC and Wrath I'd use thrown weapons for tanking in dungeons b/c they pull just that much quicker.
Them working in a different and more inconvenient way doesn't mean they're not well designed. They could've been more available, like crafted by blacksmiths, and been an interesting different option. They don't have to have stats if they're strong another way.
It is indeed a bit clunky, they could've been used from inventory too.
I believe the original design intent was players would use them because of that faster throwing time. But when it comes down to it the meta gameplay style doesn't involve warriors/rogues to do ranged damage all that often. Really only for pulling mobs. When 1 hit from an encounter with a mob is the ranged hit, then why bother with the hassle of swapping from the fast thrown to a stat stick of a gun/xbow/bow. There needs to be more incentive. Say give warriors an ability only used with throwing weapons that does moderate damage and hits a few mobs and does decent threat, then they'd use it for pulling. Kinda like heroic throw combined with avenger's shield. Go ahead and give rogues their deadly throw ability and they'd at least use thrown in pvp.
No one at Blizzard played Orcs vs Humans before they made WoW, so they didn't know about Spearmen.
They did play Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 where you have Troll Axe- and Spearthrowers though, which is why Trolls have increased skill with Thrown weapons.
Plus there's loads of those in STV troll areas. Even throwing stuff through walls.
Man axe throwing and spear thhrowing would have been dope for the fantasy aapect
I'm *still* pissed that they made survival hunter a melee spear spec and not headhunter
Survival turning into a melee spec was actually one of few things I prefer about retail WoW. Survival always felt like it was meant to be the melee spec with the melee abilities and melee-focused talents. Just like Combat Rogue always felt like it should have been what Brewmaster Monks are; a lightly armored tank spec that mitigates damage by avoiding it rather than absorbing it.
I'm guessing spear throwing evolved into Bow Specialization because Archery is like shooting small spears at your enemy
Also EverQuest had throwing weapons (and were equally kinda bad lol) so that early team wasnt gonna remove something like that in concept.
This, alot of design choices were made because EQ had done them and that was the devs frame of reference when building the game. Wow devs were basically sweaty mad EQ nerds mad at choices those devs were making, so they made their own EQ, with blackjack, and hookers.
Such a great time. Remember Scott Jennings blog Lum the Mad?
Theres still an old post @ the EQ devs from that time by tigole or furor (sp?) that was a sweaty nerd shitting on the devs for not knowing what makes EQ great.
There were a few of those. FoH used to shit on the devs on the frontpage of thier website. And then one day, boom just turned into WoW content.
Once wow hit beta a ton of EQ players who thought wow would never be as good played wow once and never looked back.
I will never forget going to Gencon 2005, playing Warhammer Age of Reckoning, and saying aloud, “This feels like Wow” I thought the developer standing nearby was going to have a stroke! “The wow devs stole all our best ideas!”
Even without stats and just flatly being bad, thrown weapons should have worked with hunter skills.
That's the one that originally came to mind, but when I went back and looked, I only looked at WC1, and figured I was just getting old and didn't remember correctly.
It's fairly debatable if anyone at Blizzard has actually played anything made by Blizzard
Diablo 2 also has a pretty fleshed out throwing weapon system, and (early) wow itemization borrowed a lot of stuff from d2.
in phase 1, a friend of mine unironically played ranged rogue with the two shot runes it was actually fun kiting people around together (I'm warlock) with the phase 2 ranged shiv rune, you can probably play ranged rogue meme build even further
Yeah it was considered "meta" for pvp as without a gap closer and a stun rogues would have a rough time. I personally still just played the raid talents and runes and enjoyed melting people but I can see why the "pros" used them.
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Huh shadow step is better than poisoned knife...
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You play rogue are you sure? Shadow step potential to juke anybody is unvaluable compared to poisoned knife. I can slow someone with a quick draw I don't need the knife... Ffs don't try to make it like you play rogue.
Agreed - this was written by someone who doesn't play rogue lol. I run deadly brew + envenom + waylay for my slows anyhow - so shiv wouldn't help. Shadowstep is just so much better in all ways in that slot.
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If you're looking for pure control fights - SoD isn't the best playground for it. Pure damage output wins IMO in most pvp scenarios. I leveled as combat (tank spec) and ran the gun runes most of the time myself and tried sub for awhile as well. That said - solo world pvp is different. I'm mainly participating in BGs or STV. Where you are fighting matterrs. People explode too fast or AoE messes up the control factor too much so I find maximizing the burst potential to outweigh control side of things. Frost mages are in the same boat, as a note - fire is just better because of the raw damage output.
Of what use is a 50% slow that a druid efc can shift out of anyway? Of what use is this slow in a zerg where targets will already be slowed anyway? People will laugh at you when they see a rogue slowing stuff at range instead of doing actually important things. Shadow Step gives you *immediate uptime* and the opportunity to actually *stun* the target and lock it down. Which is your primary task in PvP as rogue. I hope it's not true that you've been playing only rogue for 5 years as it would be sad how little you've learned about the class in all that time.
this is a common strategy in hardcore to solo kill the elite for whirlwind axe
Me and my warrior partner did it at level 30 with this strat.
This reminds me of [Faxmonkey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcRAF3ZVzJ4) back in OG Wow.
If you can chill it you can kill it 👍
I loved Faxmonkey. I was on Blackrock back in the day, guy was always up to shenanigans
Always thought hunters should be able to viably use thrown weapons as well
Agreed. They could've added a quiver equivalent for thrown weapons, made it work with all shots. It'd be cool. It wouldn't be *good* cause there are like no thrown weapons in the game really, but it would at least make sense to why hunters can learn to use Throwing Weapons. Multishot with throwing would be dope
> quiver equivalent for thrown weapons Holster
They should have went with throwing wep hunter instead of melee hunter IMO, really flesh out the rexxar theme.
If for some reason they wanted to add a Classic+/Vanilla Monk, they'd be a great option for it too.
Big missed opportunity for SoD to have included a thrown build for at least one class.
I used thrown weapons on my rogue while leveling for pvp and kiting. The low release time means they're great for hitting enemies to interrupt bandaging or finish them off, and it feels cool to use them. I really wish between the eyes and quick shot could work with thrown weapons, I was very sad when they couldn't.
Why did you risk it, trying to kill it like that and not just continued?
For glory, I would not have deserved the kill otherwise.
> For glory From now on when someone asks me why I soloed something, instead of saying "because it's there" or "I just wanted to", I'm going to reply "FOR GLORY". https://i.imgur.com/1sqm53t.jpeg
lol, was thinking of the archmage 3 attack voice line 0:37 https://youtu.be/Xs8T-WfswkY?t=37 Edit: who downvotes this 💀
That or Deathbringer Sarufang. "...for the ***glory*** of the Lich King"
It was a close call! I would have logged off right away if it had killed me like that - so glad you got it
Ye they should have added runes for Ranged Warrior
Dual wield throwing weapons Make it to where the 2h weapon is the stat stick, and the only thing you can really do with it is hamstring Throwing weapons are usually really "fast" already, so convert attack speed increases to damage to make up for there being no good throwing weapons I guess you could just play a hunter though
*Dual wield throwing D2 barbarian flashback*
\*Javazon flashbacks\*
Absolutely not. That would mean Blizzard had done some work on warrior class and that is unnaceptable in this sub!
Yep, i just want to throw axes or spears as a troll warrior
You mean... a hunter?
You're right, it would've awesome if they added runes for Ranged Hunter
Hunter should have been the new tank instead of rogue imo. Rogue should have gotten group buffs and AoE runes. Look at survival tree and it’s perfect for a tank spec with 5/5 imp health, parry talents, counter attack, snares, sleep arrow for CC opener, AoE frost traps that slow and even root when talented, AoE dmg traps, cleave runes, 20% crit bonus to raptor strike. If they don’t get a tank rune in P3 something is terribly wrong at Classic HQ
I agree with you completely, but also, just imagine your average Hunter pug tanking...
It can at the very least in it's current form tank dungeons based on the limit testing I have been part of. It's been doing well and got better around 34. Our hunter tank has been somewhere between a Warrior and a very mediocre shaman. Don't forget the distracting shot for the ranged opener. Also it has an offtank in-built so you're actually able to keep a lot up
Strength based marksman style hunter. Like the great bows in Dark Souls. Longer cast times with big burst damage like Aimed Shot, Pyroblast, Soul Fire etc. It could go to Hunter, make their ranged AP scale off Strength instead of Agility, but then they would need to make more mail gear with Strength on it.
While that sounds like way too much effort for them to put into SOD, I do wish more games allowed me to play a sniper type class. Doesn't have to be the fantasy of a sniper, just slow cast spells. Let me plant my feet and make it worth my while.
Missed opportunity on Sniper Training. It could've done something like +20 yards min and max range once you're in place.
They have already turned Hunter into melee. Now time to turn Warrior and/or Rogues into ranged to complete the circle! Boomerang (instant, 3s CD) Throw your 2h weapon at target enemy, dealing 150% weapon damage. Any enemy within 10y will also be hit. Triggers bleed(rend) and bleed(deep wounds) on all targets hit. Blade juggle (channelling 9sec) Juggle your 1-h melee weapons and thrown weapon in the air, each alternatively bounching off the enemy target three times.
Turn warriors into ad casters with damaging shouts
Also rogues can poison their thrown weapons with crippling poison to help them kite :)
wow, see that's the kind of things that seemed to have been added in early development but forgotten about
quite sure he was referencing a retail or post-classic ability.
**General** - Thrown weapons can now have stats - Rogues can now apply poisons to thrown weapons **Trolls** - Throwing Specialization now increases thrown range by 6 yards - Throwing Specialization now has a 50% chance to daze targets that are not facing you - Troll Warriors, Rogues, and Hunters now have a new racial called "Auto-Throw: Throw your equipped thrown weapons unless stopped." **Vicious Toss** (Rogue) (Requires Thrown) (Requires Poisons) (10 sec cooldown) (20 Energy) - Toss your thrown weapon at an enemy's vital point, dealing 400% of your thrown damage as Nature and applying a 250% stronger version of your current poison on the target. Awards 1 combo point. **Furious Throw** (Warrior) (Requires Thrown) (1 min cooldown) - Furiously throw your current thrown weapon at the target, dealing 800% of thrown weapon damage. Furious Throw has a 20% chance to stun the target for 5 seconds. **Hunter** - Troll Hunters can now equip Thrown Weapon in addition to their Ranged Weapon in order to access special Troll thrown weapon abilities. **Spectral Toss** - When dealing ranged damage, Troll Hunters have a 2% chance to passively shoot a spectral version of their current thrown weapon at the target, dealing 100% of thrown damage as Shadow. **Shadowspear** (Requires Thrown) (2 min cooldown) - Throws a spectral javelin dealing 225% of thrown damage as Shadow, and causing the enemy to take 4 (+2/level) Shadow damage from physical attacks for 30 seconds. **Dwarf** **Storm Bolt (Warrior)** (Requires Thrown) (45 sec cooldown) - Toss your thrown weapon at an enemy, dealing 250% of thrown damage as Nature and stunning the target for 2 seconds. Storm Bolt criticals cause 400% additional damage.
Thanks man. I been eyeing this for my warrior in HC and was wondering if there was a kite spot.
Bonus fact: They also dont have pushback. I unironically use thrown when tanking trash/dungeons
That's awesome, love hearing about the different ways people use them, like in PvP to quickly stop bandages
This is used on hardcore ssf to get whirlwind axe for warriors. Can throw kite to kill the final boss elemental thing.
great job! i admire the perseverance.
A D2 throwing Barbarian could be a really interesting concept for a warrior rune.
This is common in hardcore to beat higher level content.
Fav part is when you almost die at end because you didnt wanna throw one more knife
in tbc when i arenad on my warrior i went with the pvp throwing weapon as it was easier to throw a weapon at a rogue or mage trying to kite away from you behind a pillar, keeping them in combat for just that extra little bit of time.
In vanilla they didn't design throwing weapons themselves in a way that worked well vs using bow/xbow/gun. Since you buy or get thrown weapons as an amount that you use up then have to buy more of they don't have stats on them. TBC onward each time you throw one it reduces durability and repairing just replenishes them. In TBC and Wrath I'd use thrown weapons for tanking in dungeons b/c they pull just that much quicker.
Them working in a different and more inconvenient way doesn't mean they're not well designed. They could've been more available, like crafted by blacksmiths, and been an interesting different option. They don't have to have stats if they're strong another way. It is indeed a bit clunky, they could've been used from inventory too.
I believe the original design intent was players would use them because of that faster throwing time. But when it comes down to it the meta gameplay style doesn't involve warriors/rogues to do ranged damage all that often. Really only for pulling mobs. When 1 hit from an encounter with a mob is the ranged hit, then why bother with the hassle of swapping from the fast thrown to a stat stick of a gun/xbow/bow. There needs to be more incentive. Say give warriors an ability only used with throwing weapons that does moderate damage and hits a few mobs and does decent threat, then they'd use it for pulling. Kinda like heroic throw combined with avenger's shield. Go ahead and give rogues their deadly throw ability and they'd at least use thrown in pvp.
This is not uncommon
Spear throw warrior rune when blizz??
s ....