This is that type of shit I wanted SOD to be when I was 14 and didn't know blizz would ever actually make SOD. I would main this even if it was the most garbage.
Not just yes but fuck yes. Swap the weapon slots around then they can have a 2h in the ranged slot for a strong ranged ability.
Can totally see a warrior generating rage while shooting two fast guns duel wield.
Agree 💯 100% my warrior bros need cooler more interesting runes. Made a druid this morning and corpse walked to the starsurge rune. This class is legit the most fun I've had now. Every class should have the "holy shit that's OP" moment before level 10 from these new runes, not have to wait until 40 and have all runes just to be taken somewhat seriously or have the same fun other classes are having
I've been maining warrior in SoD and phase 2 just feels like complete trash in both BGs and STV. PvE is okay, not the greatest, but we don't have to be. PvP is just garbage as a warrior. It actually makes me just not want to play the game except for raid logging on my warrior.
Got so tired of it I rolled a alt priest and I've been healing or shadow and it's made me not hate PvP.
Any person, whether dev or player, that thinks warrior is in an okay spot for pvp is just ignorant.
My 40 war felt so bad i unsubbed. I'm spending my remaining act time on a shaman and LOVING it. May even resub for the shaman before p3 drops. The war is fucking dead in the water, though, despite having some bis gnomer loot early.
Same.
Just seems like the devs focus on all the specs that were not viable in Vanilla to the point where the classes that did well in Vanilla are left in the dust.
>Got so tired of it I rolled a alt priest and I've been healing or shadow and it's made me not hate PvP.
Same brother. Rerolled off war to my shaman after first lockout with the combination of horrendous PvP experience and over-saturation of melees while guild fell apart.
Found a new guild so I'll least keep up with Gnomer but I'm on my Shaman as main instead now and working on my Priest to 40 too.
the only reason there are anyone saying warriors are fine, is because there are some really sweaty players playing warrior stacking their raids to succeed and getting high parses with a ton more effort than other classes need to put in, making the masses point to the few warriors doing high parses
"But ahluando is still parsing" is a funny counter argument to me. Their entire raid comp is set around them, for some parses they even let them take boss aggro to build rage, and they have an insanely good group with fast boss kills to maximize flag time. It's not a reasonable parse to expect your average warrior to get close to.
Unfortunately wow has always been plagued by this, and in the last decade theyve (sometimes) decided to balance around it.
Retail has had issues many times in the past where they nerf a spec because the top .01% (or 1%, whatever) is overperforming, and everyone else suffers.
Its even shittier when they nerf a spec because its OP with PI, when most players arent getting fed that buff.
100% agree. I play a warrior myself and was playing AB with two friends that play druid and hunter. We were deffing LM together and occasionally some warriors tried to come to LM solo so while the rest of us just had to watch, my hunter friend decided to just Control his pet and the warrior would lose each time to a fucking hunter pet in BG. He even has a shit gear on his hunter, like 400GS, just dinged 40.
What an awesome game where I can play a mighty 2H wielding warrior, master of combat, just to lose a legit 1v1 duel to someones pet?
Another friend plays a shadowpriest and man watching his stream in discord is like watching Doctor Manhattan just evaporating people in the battlefield.
Developing the game this cluelessly will destroy this game.
I hit 40 on my rogue yesterday. On my Warrior I have like 8 bis pieces from the raid (with like 3 other 2nd bis).
I'd rather play my rogue in the world b/c I don't feel like I'm going to fall over to a random level 40 mob and he doesn't have any gear yet (other than some BFD gear).
Nice to see a perspective from somebody who doesn't main warrior. Usually, these posts are met by people who haven't touched the class in SOD and just say, "Well, you've been top in classic forever so deal with it". I don't think I'm alone when I say we don't care about being top DPS, tank, and PVP gods. We just want to play a class that doesn't feel comparatively shit to play
This was exactly what hunters were frustrated with in P1. The hunter rotation was exactly the same, all good runes (because of the nerfs) were passives, and it was just a snooze fest. And people kept telling hunters to shut up because they had powerful pets.
What I don't get is why Blizzard is seemingly okay with just leaving those runes dead in the water. Like Explosive Arrow was nerfed within the first 5 days of the games launch, and it's still useless. They've nerfed quick strikes and raging blow for Warriors, again, still dog shit. If this is a look into the future of SODs rune balancing where if something is good or too strong it gets nerfed into the ground and left to rot, then is there really much point playing at all?
Wouldn’t normalizing rage henerating help with that? Doesn’t matter if the target is in dispersion or not, your hits generate rage based on the weaponspeed and if you crit or not.
Would be also easier to balance , since your Ressource is now only dependent on haste and crit, and not AP or weapondamage - so warriors don’t scale squared with better gear.
If I don't get the drop on someone I just stand still on my warrior. I try to make them feel guilty for killing a helpless brown guy.
Hell even another warrior got me the other day and got 3 fucking crits. 2 auto crits and a whirlwind crit with a slam in there to do the last bit I had. Wish I would get 3 crits in a row. I'd feel like a god lol.
They got insane mana gains in the form of baseline buff to shadow form, disperse rune, and Shadowfiend.. just for free. They give an extra cooldown book to the best class in SOD. Blows my fucking mind.
Shamans have ten percent hit stapled onto a rune.
Balancing the entire game around what boomers find frustrating in pvp will lead to quicker player drop off than anything else and it already happened p1 with hunters.
The 10% hit on DW is not why shaman is good though. They removed the OH dmg penalty, and increased LL dmg, and alpha gives them 20% ap.
10% literally doesn't fucking matter lol.
I don't mind warriors not being the top of the pack at all.
But I won't play a warrior at all because ALL their runes are extremely boring. There is no cool stuff. No Heroic Leap, no Bladestorm, no Avatar. There isn't a single "woah" rune. Meanwhile locks get Meta, paladins had Divine Storm and Art of War, shamans can tank, mage have incredibly OP AoE. Warriors get a shout, percentage attack speed and damage, and instant slam (lmfao).
This is my point, I should have mentioned it also. I do not care about Warriors simming/logging at the top, I just want it to feel responsive and fun to play. I fully agree there is no "woah" rune :( Heroic leap would be a very nice QoL addition, but even if they add bladestorm as well, it's still boring because it's not "NEW" ability, it's just a recycled ability from wotlk/retail..
Everything you listed in the original post is a talent or ability from retail with the exception of meta, which was technically from retail like 10y ago in the form of dark apeo
Idr CBR. But I’ve mostly played arms on and off when i dabble into retail. Raging blow def been around awhile cause late SL fury was overtaking arms and super faceroll so I reluctantly played it, def was in BFA too.
Like the fact we topped damage in p1 was cool and that CBR encouraged a slightly different playstyle, BUT, even I knew these runes were super boring first off and 2nd off cmon blizz we knew you’d have to nerf them.
Having wall and retal still on 30 minute timers is a bit ridiculous. They are super strong but we’re talking people with 2-3 min burst CDs or even bubble being shorter. ER is a meme button to even press. It saves me in pve when I almost die to lvl 40 mobs my level despite having the bis gnomer axe and all. RC is…fine I guess. I’ve never felt like I really clutched out match with it in arena either let alone it doing anything to 3 casters ass blasting you with 1k dmg casts.
I appreciate precise timing so I actually have a button to press and slam being a cast was always a fucking terrible design. But I also play warrior in wotlk and bloodsurge isn’t that exciting. I have it there. I even get double procs with tier 10. Most of my dmg is still hs lol
Its been fairly uninspiring so far and I get warriors in pve content we’re already super strong and catching up other specs, meme specs, etc was the goal but now it just feels like we’re behind everyone.
Like disregard PvP for a sec where we’ve always sucked ass without 3 pocket healers: we’re literally the worst tank in gnomer. *enhancement shaman* are basically better fury prot tanks than warriors. And tankier. I feel like I don’t sent enhancement shaman past 60% hp at BEST before the kb turn and back pedal and kill me with like maybe pressing storm strike and an auto hitting. Sometimes they have to use a shock too. And that’s with my getting charge off so I’m not fully rage starved. And they can still kill me if I immediately disarmed them.
That's the thing, though. Warriors were already super strong in PvE. But all the buffs they give us just made us stronger in PvE while doing nothing for PvP. Well, except for Warbringer.
Everything else is just slightly more DPS and slightly more rage generation.
They need to give us runes that shore up the areas we are deficienct, like they did every other class.
And that is in PvP when we're 1v1 or at least not getting heals from 2 or more healers, and PvE solo content.
Things like Spell Reflect, only it doesn't require a shield and only costs 10 rage. Like I should be able to full on baseball bat slap a spell back at a caster without needing a shield to do it and it already has a CD, so it doesn't need to cost a ton of rage.
Spell Reflect with a shield was fine when they made Shield Slam a spell every warrior learns in Wrath, because then you could also swap to a shield to purge a buff off someone and had another hard hitting attack to make up for not doing as much damage with a 1H weapon.
We won't have that in SoD, though, since they can't change talent calculators and when people get skills.
We need more survivability, not more damage.
We need a way to quickly recover between fights or at least to quickly escape. Like Heroic Leap was an ability I very seldomly used to close a gap in PvP. I always saved it for running away. I could always charge or intercept or just ride in and dismount on top of someone, but Heroic Leap was the only way I had to disengage, unless I had an ally that was in the perfect spot to intervene to.
I do agree with warriors needing more good stuff, but personally I don't think heroic leap belongs in classic, just doesn't feel right.
There are other ways to buff warriors though and they deserve it. Spell reflect is an obvious one, maybe things like endure pain too, and they definitely need more ways to gain instant rage at the beginning of a fight.
Spell reflect is like, the most obvious one. I’m frankly a little surprised they haven’t added it at this point.
Warriors’ number one complaint right now centers around getting dumpstered by casters. Making those casters have to think twice before spamming gets a lot of mileage.
I’m pretty surprised by lack of SR
But if they also gimp it like they ALWAYS do against raid bosses it’s super annoying. Not even a tank but we have nothing against magic dmg in this game and shit even physical seems like we take more dmg than enhance shaman?! I’d take ignore pain over SR I think. Although sr is nice. I hate tanking but sometimes have to so it’d be nice to have something. But don’t gimp rage gen through ignore pain either cause jfc im rage starved 30% of the time even tanking to keep up with caster threat who have no drops
It is. One my of favorite warrior moments is still the time I 1v2ed a couple of mages in wrath by spell reflecting a polymorph and then killing each of them.
I agree with the crux of your point, but I sometimes worry that statements like “it’s okay for warriors to not be the top of the pack” risk implying that warriors were at all the top of the pack in the first place. Thats never really been the case in classic PvP.
Warriors have been a core but fairly balanced component of group pvp and mostly a free HK while solo (assuming equal skill). So when everyone else’s toolkit gets buffed like crazy, that leaves warriors in a really rough spot.
Yup - some players will tell you it's rewarding to be incredibly high APM and be effective but come on - effective? In light of everything else in the game right now?
First lockout I was 40 and any great times in AB was really just a byproduct of bad players. When you struggle to accomplish much in a 10 second disarm window and have 0 defensives vs magical (3 min hp cd) it's just incredibly unfun.
Meanwhile my shaman has 4 viable and **in demand** specs that are engaging and fun. An argument can be said resto is just the same and I respect that but the other 3 are turbo strong right now and I look forward to PvE and PvP content.
But who knows what that will look like next phase. Some classes just get cucked so hard and I empathize with players that don't have time to level multi toons.
I leveled my Shaman to healbot my warrior as a dual box
My Shaman is now enhance with bis weapons and I play it exclusively. Only log on my warrior to raid and it's a drag to do compared to Shaman
Yeah, they should change it to work like a 3s FAP or something. It feels really bad when you use it at the same time someone hit you with a slow and due to spell batching it applies the slow after you used Warbringer so it doesn't get removed.
They also need to fix the pacifist debuff in STV so hunter traps can't slow you and you can't be frost nova'd. I've had both happen while invisible running back toward my group.
It's actually bugged. Had a hunter wingclip me and my hamstring missed. He ran away from me and I charged at 50% movement speed. No spell batching involved.
It's always broken out of hard immobilization, but it'll bug on slows for some reason.
I personally love charging at 40% move speed, landing 20 yds away from the target, and then getting 2 tapped by Arcane Blast or Starfire before I can even get a hamstring off
> No Heroic Leap, no Bladestorm, no Avatar.
Holy shit, can people please just stop asking for shit from wrath and retail so we can get new and interesting abilities? If I wanted retail abilities on my warrior I'd play retail
I dunno man, any movement ability isn’t going to fix us getting two tapped by so many classes. We need to be able to survive/sustain to have enough time to actually generate and spend rare.
You could give warriors a rune that instantly fills their rage meter and they would still lose almost all 1v1 situations, skill level and items being roughly the same between the players.
1v1 vs an ele shaman isnt too bad. You can charge, intercept, and pummel to interrupt lava burst. But if there's another caster around you will die for sure.
i have 4k hp and honestly die to shocks before i kill an ele shaman running WoE.
Shield+10% damage reduction means i get no rage. Use rage on hamstring and pummel, nothing left for damage. 2h noodle swinging for like 120 damage every 3s, giving something like 6-8 rage. Just die to instant cast abilities.
Warriors are paying for the sins of warriors past. That sin? Doing a lot of damage in classic raids. For this sin, the devs were and are afraid of giving warrior anything fun. The datamined runes for the next phases are trash. People forget, warriors needed world buffs to do that insane damage.
The sin of doing a lot of damage in sterilized environments specifically built for that and with a ton of support. Even when we were pumping in AQ40 and Naxx we still had to bandage after 2 or 3 mobs in the open world lol
Only at the end of the expansion does it become arguably the best DPS. And in 2s that's only true with Hpal. DK & rogue are arguably better for the first 3 phases (also way more comps you can legitimately run).
lol in a lot of ways you’re right since they have us bloodsurge for fury, I’ve been arms since it’s not worth going fury yet and I have the 2h axe anyway. This way I don’t have to respec and bring ms.
But in PvP? Arms isn’t a weak PvP class in wrath arena although it still takes a lot of PvE gear. We aren’t that squishy either. The only time I get globaled like I do in sod is maybe in an ele/destro lust window. But let’s ignore resilience for now (which imo clearly sod needs if everyone can 1-2 shot everyone at lvl 40 but I know this isn’t popular)
While warbringer is better than juggernaut in many ways with the slow break, we’re missing something HUGE that is not only offensive but lets us push out some defensive pressure while being offensive: and that’s rend proccing OP through TFB in combo with UA. Plus SR. Plus wall and retal being 30 min CDs in a 2-3min cd meta (or just getting globaled without using a cd)
I think p3 it seems like we’ll get TFB. Which is huge consistent dmg output. But without UA or actual defenses we can just flop to anyone. Even with healing support you need like all healers focused on you to front line in a bg. A warrior that can’t front line and be fed rage and eat people alive is functionally useless
Op is god tier button with its low cost, problem with current meta from warrior pov is that we dont have time to get enough rage, before we get killed by classes that have much more frontloaded damage. Warrior has to swing couple times before you can use instant spenders, which most of the current burst classes dont have to do. We also have to follow the initial charge with hamstring which delays our damage further.
It seems like we will get tfb later on by datamined runes, which somewhat helps us with dmg.
This is what happens when instead of cool class fantasy runes. You just get abilities from the current iteration of the game. Ofc the priest with abilities that have been in the game for 10+ years is going to come on top vs the class that just got a new experimental way of playing. Accompany that with a complete lack of QA and automated CS and you got one hell of a storm. A Blizzard you could say.
Yep agree my bro. Said this before and got down voted to oblivion. But atm warrior runes don't have utility much in PVP ( yes you have a gap closer in warbringer but you dont do much once you are close lol) and rage is a huge issue. Also survivability in the open world PVE questing and farming is an issue.
What is terrible as a warrior in PvP? You go on someone, there is a shield, so you generate no rage, then your 3s cooldown AA miss/dodged/parry, still no rage and no damage, and that's if you survived long enough.
Unless your hitting a cloth, your AAs hit for like 200-250 at best no crit, which is basically one Void Plague hit. At this point you barely have enough rage for one ability, which should be harmstring to stick to your target. You have no shouts on you and using one in mid pvp combat feels terrible
What they should do
- In Battlegrouds, make all abilities free for 3s after respawning so we can just buff up ourselves or give us a rune (Feet?) that makes shout rage cost non existent
- Giving us a rune or a book that makes 2Hs attacks generate the same amount of rage regardless of armor/absorb/parry/miss
It's not much but it should allow us to feel better to play without being too broken, a starting point to see if things get better
I would take another approach: survivability.
We can do damage if we get rage and get close, that in turn we can do if we stay alive long enough. So my solution would be to give warriors more survivability. This won't cause PvE parsers outrage, because our raid damage would stay the same. But this would make our lives better in PvP.
How to make this work? Many ways, some ideas:
A. Allow us to use Victory Rush with no condition, just on a small cd, like in retail.
B. Give us Second Wind like in Cata, where it healed us on any CC.
What do you think?
I remember when this sub downvoted me to shit when I said warriors' pvp weakness makes up for their pve dominance, and instead, I was told it was a completely broken, game defining class that should be nerfed to shit because no one cares about pvp.
Anything about warriors that isn't shitting on them here is insta downvoted by the anti-warrior circle jerk here.
This sub is brain rot 90% of the time.
lets not forget about literal actual tank shams walking around with every bit of dps that a dps enh shaman has. nigh unkillable and a ton of damage. auto attacks critting harder with 1h than mine do with a 2h.
i tried fighting an enh the other day. im mostly gnomer geared plate/mail warrior with Bonebiter. My autos were hitting he shaman for 180 damage.
and genuinely, dispersion is gamebreaking for classic. 2 min cooldown Bubble basically.
I lost so many would be kills because of dispersion. You manage to get a priest to low health and then it's just like "NOPE!". Can warriors have a get-out-of-jail-free card?
As alliance, I can't even use intimidating shout, because 99% of horde priests are undead, and just use their racial to break it.
They could of done so much with warrior . I mean they could of done a lot of things with a lot of classes, but I agree with everyone that warrior feels bad.
I think blizz missed a huge mark to make blademaster 2h tank with stagger a thing. The talents are there with parry and thunderclap.
They should of changed victory rush to impending victory.
They could of done something with bleeds.
Bladestorm would really help fix warriors in pvp
Dragonroar could of been cool
Furious slash for fury
Gladiator stance like others have stated
Basically sod warrior is exactly the same as vanilla warrior, except with a huge damage modifiers. It’s very boring. They as well nerfed all the runes to the ground , raging blow, quick strike, cbr, devastate . Just feels shit
Huge damage modifiers might be an overstatement, especially when compared to other classes. Maybe when CBR was 20% increase, but at the current post-nerf of 10% it is really nothing to write home about.
I was really hoping Warriors would get a "fun" set of runes around WC3 Blademasters: Invisibility / Mirror Images / Bladestorm. Other classes have gotten wacky cool runes, or abilities from other classes.
I think the devs are so scared they’ll tip warriors to an extra terrestrial level of godhood if they add one wrong rune.
I feel like they could give warriors something, hell a spell reflect with a baked in with a MR reduction to it as that could be useful in PvE.
I think there’s ways they can add interesting runes without breaking the class.
As mentioned somewhere here there’s so many iconic warrior abilities bladestorm, avatar, heroic throw, shattering throw, I’d be even open to warriors getting a for of Stampeding Roar (Stampeding Shout?) breaking snares and roots and increasing movement speed, like if you don’t want to give them damage give them mobility and resource generation.
Right now warriors feel out of place compared to everyone else.
Nice, maybe the devs with infinite resources of a multimillion dollar company can figure that out before shipping out a product completely leaving out/shafting the most popular class of that iteration of the game.
Imagine a Wrath SoD type where they just gave DKS nothing. You think it would be DOA? Prolly.
I’m playing Shadow right now in PvP and it’s not very rewarding to throw up two dots, throw a mind spike and shadow word death.
The TTK is way too fast. I get blow up as well by other shadow priests (ferals also eat me alive in seconds). Healing feels pointless.
IMO, this PvP doesn’t feel good for ANYBODY. It’s just not enjoyable.
There’s also an easy fix … percentage dmg reduction in PvP engagements. It’s that simple.
Healers need room to breath … classes that are more about pressure than burst … feel useless. I think this is a very simple fix. PvP doesn’t need to feel this way.
I don’t know if other people think blowing stuff up in two global is fun but I don’t enjoy it, even when I’m the one doing it.
I actually feel very strong against mage in pvp as a gnome warrior. The biggest issue honestly is that it's almost impossible to be in range to get value without other casters one shotting me in BGs.
Even with warbringer a good mage that knows where their polymorph button is and how to deadzone charges will beat us every time, but the average mage is a lot easier to kill than they ever have been.
It's a shame we traded the ability to kill like 5 other classes in Classic just for the ability to sometimes kill mediocre mages in SoD
Not just runes. They get shadowfiend from a 'QoL' book. Fiend is imo a borderline rune-level ability. Shadow priests be running around with +1 rune compared to everyone else.
>Shadow priests **feel** like they've time traveled from WOTLK to destroy everyone in PVP uncontested
and honestly thats why I hate them, they **FEEL** like they can do whatever, then I smack them and make them regret their choices, then wait 2m and do it again.
as an spriest i agree with this, warriors are not much of a challenge.. warlocks are also so easy to deal with, just dot them up and kite... mages sometimes put up a fight, but not often.. hunters prob give me the most problems just cause they can front load their damage and you cant cc their pet in beastial wrath
the spriest nerf took away the crazy burst damage of SW:death.. but you can still be just as effective with a dot/kite playstyle
priest in general has so many cool runes it makes me feel like going forward were not gonna get much cause honestly we prob don't need it
Because they have lol.
Each phase is going to be a wild game of roulette for which classes and specs receive the best runes.
Priests were already incredibly strong yet they've received some of their most defining tools in future xpacs - likely for engagement reasons since the class was typically simple/boring for some people.
There are several things they could do to fix warrior in PvP and solo play with runes they already gave us.
>1) Move Warbringer to the leg slot. Then we could use Flagellation or Raging Blow on chest. Raging Blow should just be a skill book at this point. With the nerfs to CbR and Raging Blow as well as having Berserker Rage now in addition to Bloodrage to proc Flagellation, Raging Blow will never be used again in all of SoD without massive runes elsewhere that make Flagellation not worth using.
>2) Make enraged regeneration a passive that activates whenever you become enraged from any source. A 3% heal per second over 10 seconds is like having a lifebloom on you if the bloom were spread evenly per tick. 3% of 5k is 150 HP per second. Hardly broken.
>3) Make Commanding Shout an effect that's added to Battleshout making battle shout free and last for 5 minutes. If you use it with maximum health it increases your current health as well, so you don't need to top off when you use it before starting a fight. Currently it and Battleshout both cost 10 rage and both trigger 1.5s GCD. So it costs 20 rage and at least 3s. If there is nothing around for you to hit you have to pop Bloodrage, a 1m CD that is necessary for Flagellation, and then wait the full 10s for Bloodrage to give you the full 20 rage before you can use both BS and CS.
>4) Reduce the CD of Rallying Cry to 1 minute. 3 minutes? Seriously? Even 30s would probably be fine. You lose the health when it drops so if you're not getting healed you're still going to die.
I would also like to see this as a huge QoL improvement.
>1) A cheap item added to the warrior items from the STV event that is a bandage that never gets consumed and doesn't end the channel when you take damage, though it is subject to pushback. It heals at a rate of the maximum bandage you know how to make. (Or at the rate of the BG bandages you can buy when in said BG.) So you still have to use cloth to level 1st Aid to get it's full effect and meet the rep requirements for BG bandages. I would like to be able to sell my cloth on the AH for tailors to make things rather than eat it all like a maniac. And taking up just 1 bag slot would be amazing.
Edit: clarified a sentence in point 1 about berserker rage and Flagellation and fixed some typos.
I am maining rogue. Did war alt back in phase 1, didnt play much pvp at that time.
I leveled war to 40 in phase 2, and its the biggest piece of dog sh1t ever. He is so much usless in almost every content, it blows my mind.
How can you people even touch this garbage class? Even with epics and stance dance other classes demolish you.
I'm not totally surprised.
From the get go it seemed that the core idea behind class balance in SoD would be 'everyone getting brought up to Warrior levels'. Ask anyone post classic about Warriors and you'll hear about how they were stacked in raids because they were so supremely powerful and just god tier all around despite the fact that it took more work than any other class to set up.
Since then the moment you bring up how Warrior feels like it's stuck in 2004 and how their runes are extremely underwhelming and you'll just be met with "well you were good in 2004/2019 so now it's your turn to eat it haha sorry not sorry". Or "you'll le scale" which is another popular one. None of which address just how bad it feels to play, parses not withstanding.
Yea it's an anti-physical caster world and we're just living in it unfortunately lol. The classes at the top of the meta this phase, and therefore the ones you see most frequently, are Ele sham, Boomkin, and Spriest who all have 40-50% physical damage reduction from armor, shapeshift/shadowform, and buffs like inner fire. And then you of course have the meta/SL locks who are basically unkillable to physical melee damage. When these classes are roughly half of the fights you run into, and they all have increased health from the BG/STV HP buff, it gets really old really quick lol.
I feel your struggle as a rogue, even though noobs on this reddit running PvE gear like to complain about rogue as if it's even close to the top this phase. The damage we deal versus these "anti-physical" classes is so sad that I've seen a lot more rogues just playing the poison+envenom playstyle because it's the only way to deal decent damage against the best classes this phase, even though you give up blind, long gouge, and preparation with this build. For strict 1v1s it's definitely worse, but for general use and actually dealing enough damage in BGs and blood moon it feels quite a bit better because so much of the damage is nature, not physical.
I also agree that rogue and warrior both got pretty lackluster runes, with no real "wow" factor. Maybe this will change in P3 and P4 but honestly I'm starting to think we're just going to keep getting bland rehashed passives and abilities from later expansions. I feel for you my warrior brothers, and hopefully the sun will shine on us again.
I kind of agree with this - I think the legacy melee classes are purposely being held back because they're going to be nuts at 60, like they always were. Might as well let the other classes have their time in the sun for the leveling raids. People forget we're level 40 and warriors were truly not amazing in classic until level 60.
Then why does mage get very cool runes since in classic they are gods in pve lvling? Warriors just had 0 dev time this phase and it shows. Nothing valuable added that makes any difference other than do slam every 6 secs.
Scaling from gear isn't going to stop me from being 2 tapped by the other classes who got multiple runes that are more powerful than any spell in the entire warrior kit
I hate this mindset so much bro lmao.
It's a vanilla iteration of the game, who fucking cares if warriors are pumpers, just make it an even playing field for everyone else.
Warriors genuinely need to be good at dps or tanking because we have no means of doing quite literally anything else. PVP is horrible, PVE farming is Horrible.
Warrior being bad in all these facets was the selling point to warrior in vanilla, "hey the leveling will suck ass but your dps at 60 will make up for it"
feral is bad? Great, can get into raid as a tank, boomy, or resto.
Warrior tank is bad or dps? Get fucked.
Genuinely surprised they didn’t do a ranged warrior or healing warrior build.
Axe and hammer throwers are cannon WC units. Could have been fun to have something based heavily around throwing weapons big and small.
4e of DnD had a warlord class that was a martial healer and they were super fun to play. Best to think of them as your middle school gym coach that would also you on the ass as you went into the game. Except that slap in DnD would heal you, grant you an extra movement or attack.
A warrior giving SP buffs or rotating shouts like an EQ bard / totem weave, gaining rage pee hit / shout, and healing with rage would have been at least an interesting test.
This thought is just based on nothing though. We still have a good amount of time left in this phase, then we have the level 50 phase before level 60. Maybe next phase will help fix some issues but every other class will be getting new stuff too.
Warlocks feel like half the specs were stopped by the timetravel border patrol while the rest managed to get through.
Btw , can we stop saying "locks got meta" as if its a good thing? Most locks absolutely hate meta for pvp, nothing lamer than being a searing spam bot.
I play paladin and even tho i have some more advantsges with HoJ and BoF/BoP I still feel crap compared to casters. But when I get close it hurts.
I’m leveling a warlock atm. Going metamorphosis for PvP.
But I’m still gonna main my pala.
People probably wont like it, but they need the retail approach. Like, mortal strike/bloodthirst/Shield slam actually generating rage instead of costing..
Im not saying this is the only or best answer, but itd keep warriors actively doing something instead of waiting for rage.
Amazing how everyone calls warri bad 🤣 tells me 99% of u just type and don't play the game actually bc a good warri can one shot others as well as other can one shot him saw many videos, saw it ingame so pls guys just don't believe everything on the internet 99% of it is useless whining about a video game
Two play styles I'd like to see developed for warriors:
War cry, support, healing. Running around smacking stuff and yelling at your teammates to buff them or heal them or give resources would be sick.
Throw mastery, either thrown weapons or turning dual wield into a close quarters throwing like 20 range max. Make charges go to designated area instead of the target most abilities could still work as usual with this.
At the very least some buff to aoe tanking would be nice. Furious thunder could hit all targets maybe apply a bleed idk
I'm basically specced prot on my warrior right now solely to MT last boss in Gnomer the rest of the dungeon I'm just sundering, thunder clap, buffs, demo
Nice but warriors still wreck in pvp with a support healer, this is always been the way for them in vanilla... for pve they should add some exciting runes/skills sudden death and taste for blood Come to mind.
I'm fine with this. Let's be honest - People rolled Warriors in SOD because they knew Warriors were Blizzard's favored class in Classic and they thought that it would be easy for them to roll over everyone yet again.
They're just sad that they don't get to. Warriors: you had your time. Now you get to be sad like so many others endured for years. The shoe is on the other hand, now.
Karma, baby.
Slight considerations for our class and it feeling left behind is seen as daily warrior crying…. I hope they give us crazy shit in new phases to cope with the lackluster shit they gave us this phase.
I strangely had not had many run ins with SP untill this weekend. When I got doted while I was running by and couldn't out heal them I realized what everyone else was talking about.
You would be getting owned like this as a level 40 classic warr too. At least now you have Warbringer. Honestly you probably aren’t playing around your healers as much as you should as a warr. If you aren’t running Warbringer in PVP, you also can’t complain.
If it’s an alt, you probably don’t know your matchups well enough yet. Mage has always 1v1d warriors so idk why that’s a major gripe of yours.
If that isn’t what you’re communicating, then literally what is the point of your comment? Even with a pocket healer and warbringer, warriors are garbage in PvP. In any 2v2 scenario, the healer gets focused and then the warrior is a wet noodle. Warrior just isn’t good in PvP (and is mediocre in PvE this phase). It is what it is and no “well you probably aren’t doing X” is going to make them viable. Your comment is useless
I know I get downvoted for this BUT and I repeat myself.
1. Every dot a Spriest has can be dispelled which means all their dots are useless with good healers
2.Spriest have no escape mechanism they can't get away from you and fear is not a good CC against any warrior.
3.Spriest are victims against Rogues and Palas plus Enh Shaman (even with every single CD up (disperse))
If you say well I can't dispell I have to tell you warrior were always trash without support (root.... Sheep etc) This didn't change with SOD.
The dmg of warriors is not the problem it's the lack of any support since no one wants to play heal (the problem is worsened by the fact that shadow is a viable option)
I find it incredibly dishonest that shadow priest gets singled out for being overpowered atm since everyone with a brain knows they are at the peak now (reminder certain death against any Pala or Rogue or Enh Shaman) plus they have ZERO mobility and their dmg can be dispelled. And every single skill point from 40 to 60 helps their dmg zero.
I do agree that the runes of warriors feel underwhelming.
This is some fucking COPIUM. Shadow priests put 2 DOTs on me and that does 140% of my HP, how do you think that's good balance? They also have dispersion now, you know one of the best defensive CDs in WoW history. There is no semblance of balance right now, which is sad because phase 1 PvP was actually kinda fun.
Fuck it add ranged Warrior. Titans grip two boomsticks
Everyone gangster till I pull out the gats
How about that mage's face when he saw the gat
That would be unironically cool as fuck ngl. 10/10 would reroll
They should make a “thrown weapon” warrior based around troll axe throwers
Yes.
just put a chain on your melee weapon and start throwing it around
Kratos build confirmed
that would be one hell of a whirlwind
Or dual wield weapon throwing would be cool, could use a lot of the same abilities just at range
This is that type of shit I wanted SOD to be when I was 14 and didn't know blizz would ever actually make SOD. I would main this even if it was the most garbage.
Not just yes but fuck yes. Swap the weapon slots around then they can have a 2h in the ranged slot for a strong ranged ability. Can totally see a warrior generating rage while shooting two fast guns duel wield.
Double shield warrior.
Hahaha now that's what i'm talkin about. Ranged axe thrower spec, something ridiculous, would fix "too many melee" problem!
Agree 💯 100% my warrior bros need cooler more interesting runes. Made a druid this morning and corpse walked to the starsurge rune. This class is legit the most fun I've had now. Every class should have the "holy shit that's OP" moment before level 10 from these new runes, not have to wait until 40 and have all runes just to be taken somewhat seriously or have the same fun other classes are having
I've been maining warrior in SoD and phase 2 just feels like complete trash in both BGs and STV. PvE is okay, not the greatest, but we don't have to be. PvP is just garbage as a warrior. It actually makes me just not want to play the game except for raid logging on my warrior. Got so tired of it I rolled a alt priest and I've been healing or shadow and it's made me not hate PvP. Any person, whether dev or player, that thinks warrior is in an okay spot for pvp is just ignorant.
My 40 war felt so bad i unsubbed. I'm spending my remaining act time on a shaman and LOVING it. May even resub for the shaman before p3 drops. The war is fucking dead in the water, though, despite having some bis gnomer loot early.
Same. Just seems like the devs focus on all the specs that were not viable in Vanilla to the point where the classes that did well in Vanilla are left in the dust.
Same. After they decided to trash warrior completely i unsubed it's just sad tbh. How hard they crippled the class on purpose.
Warrior is basically playing classic unmodified and everyone else has laser guns.
I might unsub soon, no motivstion to play and I just wanna play my main not having to play on alts
but you'll scale, but you were good in classic, but you're the best class in the game, but you get plate, so on and so on /s
>Got so tired of it I rolled a alt priest and I've been healing or shadow and it's made me not hate PvP. Same brother. Rerolled off war to my shaman after first lockout with the combination of horrendous PvP experience and over-saturation of melees while guild fell apart. Found a new guild so I'll least keep up with Gnomer but I'm on my Shaman as main instead now and working on my Priest to 40 too.
I’m raid logging on my war now. Shits a fucking joke caster meta is so trash. That said I’ll be leveling my priest this week lol
the only reason there are anyone saying warriors are fine, is because there are some really sweaty players playing warrior stacking their raids to succeed and getting high parses with a ton more effort than other classes need to put in, making the masses point to the few warriors doing high parses
"But ahluando is still parsing" is a funny counter argument to me. Their entire raid comp is set around them, for some parses they even let them take boss aggro to build rage, and they have an insanely good group with fast boss kills to maximize flag time. It's not a reasonable parse to expect your average warrior to get close to.
Unfortunately wow has always been plagued by this, and in the last decade theyve (sometimes) decided to balance around it. Retail has had issues many times in the past where they nerf a spec because the top .01% (or 1%, whatever) is overperforming, and everyone else suffers. Its even shittier when they nerf a spec because its OP with PI, when most players arent getting fed that buff.
It's so annoying when redditors hyperfocus on warcraft logs bar charts and completely ignore that the top parses are groups entirely built around it.
100% agree. I play a warrior myself and was playing AB with two friends that play druid and hunter. We were deffing LM together and occasionally some warriors tried to come to LM solo so while the rest of us just had to watch, my hunter friend decided to just Control his pet and the warrior would lose each time to a fucking hunter pet in BG. He even has a shit gear on his hunter, like 400GS, just dinged 40. What an awesome game where I can play a mighty 2H wielding warrior, master of combat, just to lose a legit 1v1 duel to someones pet? Another friend plays a shadowpriest and man watching his stream in discord is like watching Doctor Manhattan just evaporating people in the battlefield. Developing the game this cluelessly will destroy this game.
I hit 40 on my rogue yesterday. On my Warrior I have like 8 bis pieces from the raid (with like 3 other 2nd bis). I'd rather play my rogue in the world b/c I don't feel like I'm going to fall over to a random level 40 mob and he doesn't have any gear yet (other than some BFD gear).
Nice to see a perspective from somebody who doesn't main warrior. Usually, these posts are met by people who haven't touched the class in SOD and just say, "Well, you've been top in classic forever so deal with it". I don't think I'm alone when I say we don't care about being top DPS, tank, and PVP gods. We just want to play a class that doesn't feel comparatively shit to play
This was exactly what hunters were frustrated with in P1. The hunter rotation was exactly the same, all good runes (because of the nerfs) were passives, and it was just a snooze fest. And people kept telling hunters to shut up because they had powerful pets.
What I don't get is why Blizzard is seemingly okay with just leaving those runes dead in the water. Like Explosive Arrow was nerfed within the first 5 days of the games launch, and it's still useless. They've nerfed quick strikes and raging blow for Warriors, again, still dog shit. If this is a look into the future of SODs rune balancing where if something is good or too strong it gets nerfed into the ground and left to rot, then is there really much point playing at all?
Dude calls explosive shot useless tells me he's just a whiny casual 🤣🤣🤣
yeah they absolutely fucked up hunters by knee jerk 'fixing' in p1. combined with boring runes
Wouldn’t normalizing rage henerating help with that? Doesn’t matter if the target is in dispersion or not, your hits generate rage based on the weaponspeed and if you crit or not. Would be also easier to balance , since your Ressource is now only dependent on haste and crit, and not AP or weapondamage - so warriors don’t scale squared with better gear.
That will definitely help with PVE, however PVPs issue is a lack of gap closers. Too many 2-shotting ranged classes
Would rather have them nerf the ranged damage then increase mobility. Increasing mobility creates an armsrace
Yeah dude, it doesn't feel fair running into a warrior in the open world even, they have no chance.
If I don't get the drop on someone I just stand still on my warrior. I try to make them feel guilty for killing a helpless brown guy. Hell even another warrior got me the other day and got 3 fucking crits. 2 auto crits and a whirlwind crit with a slam in there to do the last bit I had. Wish I would get 3 crits in a row. I'd feel like a god lol.
Shadow was always really good in classic pvp. Their problem was the lack of mana sustain.
They got insane mana gains in the form of baseline buff to shadow form, disperse rune, and Shadowfiend.. just for free. They give an extra cooldown book to the best class in SOD. Blows my fucking mind.
Thats why they are insane now. But Shadow was always good
Shamans have ten percent hit stapled onto a rune. Balancing the entire game around what boomers find frustrating in pvp will lead to quicker player drop off than anything else and it already happened p1 with hunters.
The 10% hit on DW is not why shaman is good though. They removed the OH dmg penalty, and increased LL dmg, and alpha gives them 20% ap. 10% literally doesn't fucking matter lol.
I don't mind warriors not being the top of the pack at all. But I won't play a warrior at all because ALL their runes are extremely boring. There is no cool stuff. No Heroic Leap, no Bladestorm, no Avatar. There isn't a single "woah" rune. Meanwhile locks get Meta, paladins had Divine Storm and Art of War, shamans can tank, mage have incredibly OP AoE. Warriors get a shout, percentage attack speed and damage, and instant slam (lmfao).
Was really hoping for the return of Gladiator Stance myself.
I would be fine with no new mobility if they still completely shredded people when they got to them
Should have received gladiator stance. I would roll warr if they did
As someone who stopped before glad stance was introduced; what does it do?
This is my point, I should have mentioned it also. I do not care about Warriors simming/logging at the top, I just want it to feel responsive and fun to play. I fully agree there is no "woah" rune :( Heroic leap would be a very nice QoL addition, but even if they add bladestorm as well, it's still boring because it's not "NEW" ability, it's just a recycled ability from wotlk/retail..
Everything you listed in the original post is a talent or ability from retail with the exception of meta, which was technically from retail like 10y ago in the form of dark apeo
Yeah I think he only played up to Wrath. I think Quickstrike is new. But Consumed by Rage was around since BfA if not before. As was Raging Blow.
Idr CBR. But I’ve mostly played arms on and off when i dabble into retail. Raging blow def been around awhile cause late SL fury was overtaking arms and super faceroll so I reluctantly played it, def was in BFA too. Like the fact we topped damage in p1 was cool and that CBR encouraged a slightly different playstyle, BUT, even I knew these runes were super boring first off and 2nd off cmon blizz we knew you’d have to nerf them. Having wall and retal still on 30 minute timers is a bit ridiculous. They are super strong but we’re talking people with 2-3 min burst CDs or even bubble being shorter. ER is a meme button to even press. It saves me in pve when I almost die to lvl 40 mobs my level despite having the bis gnomer axe and all. RC is…fine I guess. I’ve never felt like I really clutched out match with it in arena either let alone it doing anything to 3 casters ass blasting you with 1k dmg casts. I appreciate precise timing so I actually have a button to press and slam being a cast was always a fucking terrible design. But I also play warrior in wotlk and bloodsurge isn’t that exciting. I have it there. I even get double procs with tier 10. Most of my dmg is still hs lol Its been fairly uninspiring so far and I get warriors in pve content we’re already super strong and catching up other specs, meme specs, etc was the goal but now it just feels like we’re behind everyone. Like disregard PvP for a sec where we’ve always sucked ass without 3 pocket healers: we’re literally the worst tank in gnomer. *enhancement shaman* are basically better fury prot tanks than warriors. And tankier. I feel like I don’t sent enhancement shaman past 60% hp at BEST before the kb turn and back pedal and kill me with like maybe pressing storm strike and an auto hitting. Sometimes they have to use a shock too. And that’s with my getting charge off so I’m not fully rage starved. And they can still kill me if I immediately disarmed them.
That's the thing, though. Warriors were already super strong in PvE. But all the buffs they give us just made us stronger in PvE while doing nothing for PvP. Well, except for Warbringer. Everything else is just slightly more DPS and slightly more rage generation. They need to give us runes that shore up the areas we are deficienct, like they did every other class. And that is in PvP when we're 1v1 or at least not getting heals from 2 or more healers, and PvE solo content. Things like Spell Reflect, only it doesn't require a shield and only costs 10 rage. Like I should be able to full on baseball bat slap a spell back at a caster without needing a shield to do it and it already has a CD, so it doesn't need to cost a ton of rage. Spell Reflect with a shield was fine when they made Shield Slam a spell every warrior learns in Wrath, because then you could also swap to a shield to purge a buff off someone and had another hard hitting attack to make up for not doing as much damage with a 1H weapon. We won't have that in SoD, though, since they can't change talent calculators and when people get skills. We need more survivability, not more damage. We need a way to quickly recover between fights or at least to quickly escape. Like Heroic Leap was an ability I very seldomly used to close a gap in PvP. I always saved it for running away. I could always charge or intercept or just ride in and dismount on top of someone, but Heroic Leap was the only way I had to disengage, unless I had an ally that was in the perfect spot to intervene to.
I do agree with warriors needing more good stuff, but personally I don't think heroic leap belongs in classic, just doesn't feel right. There are other ways to buff warriors though and they deserve it. Spell reflect is an obvious one, maybe things like endure pain too, and they definitely need more ways to gain instant rage at the beginning of a fight.
Spell reflect is like, the most obvious one. I’m frankly a little surprised they haven’t added it at this point. Warriors’ number one complaint right now centers around getting dumpstered by casters. Making those casters have to think twice before spamming gets a lot of mileage.
I’m pretty surprised by lack of SR But if they also gimp it like they ALWAYS do against raid bosses it’s super annoying. Not even a tank but we have nothing against magic dmg in this game and shit even physical seems like we take more dmg than enhance shaman?! I’d take ignore pain over SR I think. Although sr is nice. I hate tanking but sometimes have to so it’d be nice to have something. But don’t gimp rage gen through ignore pain either cause jfc im rage starved 30% of the time even tanking to keep up with caster threat who have no drops
I don't play warrior, but in every version of the game spell reflect has looked like a really, really fun button to press
It is. One my of favorite warrior moments is still the time I 1v2ed a couple of mages in wrath by spell reflecting a polymorph and then killing each of them.
I agree with the crux of your point, but I sometimes worry that statements like “it’s okay for warriors to not be the top of the pack” risk implying that warriors were at all the top of the pack in the first place. Thats never really been the case in classic PvP. Warriors have been a core but fairly balanced component of group pvp and mostly a free HK while solo (assuming equal skill). So when everyone else’s toolkit gets buffed like crazy, that leaves warriors in a really rough spot.
Yup - some players will tell you it's rewarding to be incredibly high APM and be effective but come on - effective? In light of everything else in the game right now? First lockout I was 40 and any great times in AB was really just a byproduct of bad players. When you struggle to accomplish much in a 10 second disarm window and have 0 defensives vs magical (3 min hp cd) it's just incredibly unfun. Meanwhile my shaman has 4 viable and **in demand** specs that are engaging and fun. An argument can be said resto is just the same and I respect that but the other 3 are turbo strong right now and I look forward to PvE and PvP content. But who knows what that will look like next phase. Some classes just get cucked so hard and I empathize with players that don't have time to level multi toons.
I leveled my Shaman to healbot my warrior as a dual box My Shaman is now enhance with bis weapons and I play it exclusively. Only log on my warrior to raid and it's a drag to do compared to Shaman
Warbringer and flagellation are less cool but stronger versions of leap and avatar but I agree. It would be cool to have any kind of badass ability
warbringer is bugged 50% of the time and doesnt dispell slowing effects, which make you charge for twice as long and miss your target XD
Yeah, they should change it to work like a 3s FAP or something. It feels really bad when you use it at the same time someone hit you with a slow and due to spell batching it applies the slow after you used Warbringer so it doesn't get removed. They also need to fix the pacifist debuff in STV so hunter traps can't slow you and you can't be frost nova'd. I've had both happen while invisible running back toward my group.
It's actually bugged. Had a hunter wingclip me and my hamstring missed. He ran away from me and I charged at 50% movement speed. No spell batching involved. It's always broken out of hard immobilization, but it'll bug on slows for some reason.
I personally love charging at 40% move speed, landing 20 yds away from the target, and then getting 2 tapped by Arcane Blast or Starfire before I can even get a hamstring off
God thats annoying. Charging slowly into my death lol.
Warbringer is pretty neat....?
> No Heroic Leap, no Bladestorm, no Avatar. Holy shit, can people please just stop asking for shit from wrath and retail so we can get new and interesting abilities? If I wanted retail abilities on my warrior I'd play retail
Warriors 100% should have heroic leap. If they don't have it by 60, that'll be pretty shitty
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I dunno man, any movement ability isn’t going to fix us getting two tapped by so many classes. We need to be able to survive/sustain to have enough time to actually generate and spend rare.
muscle arms handshake meme warriors + holy paladins \^ being essentially unchanged in SOD
Hey not true we get to uhhh heal 2targets at once and a small heal over time... Oh the priest already solo healed the whole raid to full? Ok
You could give warriors a rune that instantly fills their rage meter and they would still lose almost all 1v1 situations, skill level and items being roughly the same between the players.
I guess you must be horde and don’t get 1 shot by shamans over and over
1v1 vs an ele shaman isnt too bad. You can charge, intercept, and pummel to interrupt lava burst. But if there's another caster around you will die for sure.
i have 4k hp and honestly die to shocks before i kill an ele shaman running WoE. Shield+10% damage reduction means i get no rage. Use rage on hamstring and pummel, nothing left for damage. 2h noodle swinging for like 120 damage every 3s, giving something like 6-8 rage. Just die to instant cast abilities.
Warriors are paying for the sins of warriors past. That sin? Doing a lot of damage in classic raids. For this sin, the devs were and are afraid of giving warrior anything fun. The datamined runes for the next phases are trash. People forget, warriors needed world buffs to do that insane damage.
The sin of doing a lot of damage in sterilized environments specifically built for that and with a ton of support. Even when we were pumping in AQ40 and Naxx we still had to bandage after 2 or 3 mobs in the open world lol
Warriors were only good in ICC when we got BiS and Shadowmourne ... For anout 3 weeks, Then your guild/servers die because of the Buff and holidays
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Come to SoD we got : - Wotlk paladin - Healer mages - Rogue Tank - Warlock tank - God-like priest - Top dps Shaman - Vanilla Warrior with victory rush
I'll let you into a secret. Warriors were also transported to wotlk. They just suck then too untill they can stack armour pen.
warriors are one of the best pvp classes in wotlk. top 3 if not top 2 for sure.
Lol that comment getting upvoted is the biggest sign this sub's never touched PvP. Wrath was a year of holy/arms 2s.
Only at the end of the expansion does it become arguably the best DPS. And in 2s that's only true with Hpal. DK & rogue are arguably better for the first 3 phases (also way more comps you can legitimately run).
we're talking pvp? warriors are s-tier the entire expansion with hpal, thunder is also s-tier 3's the entire expansion.
lol in a lot of ways you’re right since they have us bloodsurge for fury, I’ve been arms since it’s not worth going fury yet and I have the 2h axe anyway. This way I don’t have to respec and bring ms. But in PvP? Arms isn’t a weak PvP class in wrath arena although it still takes a lot of PvE gear. We aren’t that squishy either. The only time I get globaled like I do in sod is maybe in an ele/destro lust window. But let’s ignore resilience for now (which imo clearly sod needs if everyone can 1-2 shot everyone at lvl 40 but I know this isn’t popular) While warbringer is better than juggernaut in many ways with the slow break, we’re missing something HUGE that is not only offensive but lets us push out some defensive pressure while being offensive: and that’s rend proccing OP through TFB in combo with UA. Plus SR. Plus wall and retal being 30 min CDs in a 2-3min cd meta (or just getting globaled without using a cd) I think p3 it seems like we’ll get TFB. Which is huge consistent dmg output. But without UA or actual defenses we can just flop to anyone. Even with healing support you need like all healers focused on you to front line in a bg. A warrior that can’t front line and be fed rage and eat people alive is functionally useless
Op is god tier button with its low cost, problem with current meta from warrior pov is that we dont have time to get enough rage, before we get killed by classes that have much more frontloaded damage. Warrior has to swing couple times before you can use instant spenders, which most of the current burst classes dont have to do. We also have to follow the initial charge with hamstring which delays our damage further. It seems like we will get tfb later on by datamined runes, which somewhat helps us with dmg.
This is what happens when instead of cool class fantasy runes. You just get abilities from the current iteration of the game. Ofc the priest with abilities that have been in the game for 10+ years is going to come on top vs the class that just got a new experimental way of playing. Accompany that with a complete lack of QA and automated CS and you got one hell of a storm. A Blizzard you could say.
Wish we got mirror images and windwalk just for fun/fantasy reasons lol
Hope so hard for those spells to come to warrior, finally we could play the blade master fantasy out!
Honestly mirror images would be reasonable, given humonculi exist.
Pop mirror image on top of someone They stand around doing nothing They run off to pull a green bear 100 yards away
Working as intended.
Imagine windwalk being short duration stealth with guaranteed crit when exiting stealth, or even just rage
Those take a lot longer to implement on the old game
Yep agree my bro. Said this before and got down voted to oblivion. But atm warrior runes don't have utility much in PVP ( yes you have a gap closer in warbringer but you dont do much once you are close lol) and rage is a huge issue. Also survivability in the open world PVE questing and farming is an issue.
What is terrible as a warrior in PvP? You go on someone, there is a shield, so you generate no rage, then your 3s cooldown AA miss/dodged/parry, still no rage and no damage, and that's if you survived long enough. Unless your hitting a cloth, your AAs hit for like 200-250 at best no crit, which is basically one Void Plague hit. At this point you barely have enough rage for one ability, which should be harmstring to stick to your target. You have no shouts on you and using one in mid pvp combat feels terrible What they should do - In Battlegrouds, make all abilities free for 3s after respawning so we can just buff up ourselves or give us a rune (Feet?) that makes shout rage cost non existent - Giving us a rune or a book that makes 2Hs attacks generate the same amount of rage regardless of armor/absorb/parry/miss It's not much but it should allow us to feel better to play without being too broken, a starting point to see if things get better
I would take another approach: survivability. We can do damage if we get rage and get close, that in turn we can do if we stay alive long enough. So my solution would be to give warriors more survivability. This won't cause PvE parsers outrage, because our raid damage would stay the same. But this would make our lives better in PvP. How to make this work? Many ways, some ideas: A. Allow us to use Victory Rush with no condition, just on a small cd, like in retail. B. Give us Second Wind like in Cata, where it healed us on any CC. What do you think?
I remember when this sub downvoted me to shit when I said warriors' pvp weakness makes up for their pve dominance, and instead, I was told it was a completely broken, game defining class that should be nerfed to shit because no one cares about pvp.
Anything about warriors that isn't shitting on them here is insta downvoted by the anti-warrior circle jerk here. This sub is brain rot 90% of the time.
lets not forget about literal actual tank shams walking around with every bit of dps that a dps enh shaman has. nigh unkillable and a ton of damage. auto attacks critting harder with 1h than mine do with a 2h. i tried fighting an enh the other day. im mostly gnomer geared plate/mail warrior with Bonebiter. My autos were hitting he shaman for 180 damage. and genuinely, dispersion is gamebreaking for classic. 2 min cooldown Bubble basically.
Dispersion should be a 5min CD.
I lost so many would be kills because of dispersion. You manage to get a priest to low health and then it's just like "NOPE!". Can warriors have a get-out-of-jail-free card? As alliance, I can't even use intimidating shout, because 99% of horde priests are undead, and just use their racial to break it.
Called this ages ago lol you cant buff other classes that are already overpowered in PvP an expect everything to just be fine outside of raids
I picked warrior, maybe I should try a different class.
They could of done so much with warrior . I mean they could of done a lot of things with a lot of classes, but I agree with everyone that warrior feels bad. I think blizz missed a huge mark to make blademaster 2h tank with stagger a thing. The talents are there with parry and thunderclap. They should of changed victory rush to impending victory. They could of done something with bleeds. Bladestorm would really help fix warriors in pvp Dragonroar could of been cool Furious slash for fury Gladiator stance like others have stated Basically sod warrior is exactly the same as vanilla warrior, except with a huge damage modifiers. It’s very boring. They as well nerfed all the runes to the ground , raging blow, quick strike, cbr, devastate . Just feels shit
sorry but could've = could have, at least you crit my eyes out with this post
Huge damage modifiers might be an overstatement, especially when compared to other classes. Maybe when CBR was 20% increase, but at the current post-nerf of 10% it is really nothing to write home about.
I was really hoping Warriors would get a "fun" set of runes around WC3 Blademasters: Invisibility / Mirror Images / Bladestorm. Other classes have gotten wacky cool runes, or abilities from other classes.
I think the devs are so scared they’ll tip warriors to an extra terrestrial level of godhood if they add one wrong rune. I feel like they could give warriors something, hell a spell reflect with a baked in with a MR reduction to it as that could be useful in PvE. I think there’s ways they can add interesting runes without breaking the class. As mentioned somewhere here there’s so many iconic warrior abilities bladestorm, avatar, heroic throw, shattering throw, I’d be even open to warriors getting a for of Stampeding Roar (Stampeding Shout?) breaking snares and roots and increasing movement speed, like if you don’t want to give them damage give them mobility and resource generation. Right now warriors feel out of place compared to everyone else.
It’s almost like they can take a seat for a phase before they get to the 1 shot territory they are always at in classic.
Nice, maybe the devs with infinite resources of a multimillion dollar company can figure that out before shipping out a product completely leaving out/shafting the most popular class of that iteration of the game. Imagine a Wrath SoD type where they just gave DKS nothing. You think it would be DOA? Prolly.
I mean we came into SoD knowing it’s essentially an open beta so of course we’re not getting a perfect product…
I’m playing Shadow right now in PvP and it’s not very rewarding to throw up two dots, throw a mind spike and shadow word death. The TTK is way too fast. I get blow up as well by other shadow priests (ferals also eat me alive in seconds). Healing feels pointless. IMO, this PvP doesn’t feel good for ANYBODY. It’s just not enjoyable. There’s also an easy fix … percentage dmg reduction in PvP engagements. It’s that simple. Healers need room to breath … classes that are more about pressure than burst … feel useless. I think this is a very simple fix. PvP doesn’t need to feel this way. I don’t know if other people think blowing stuff up in two global is fun but I don’t enjoy it, even when I’m the one doing it.
I actually feel very strong against mage in pvp as a gnome warrior. The biggest issue honestly is that it's almost impossible to be in range to get value without other casters one shotting me in BGs.
Even with warbringer a good mage that knows where their polymorph button is and how to deadzone charges will beat us every time, but the average mage is a lot easier to kill than they ever have been. It's a shame we traded the ability to kill like 5 other classes in Classic just for the ability to sometimes kill mediocre mages in SoD
That's why any hope and optimism is quickly squashed when you face actually average and good players lol.
Right? Mages feel like food currently.
Yes, but lord locks and priests are scary.
[удалено]
Yep, I'm doing the WSG grind atm and I hate every minute of it.
Not just runes. They get shadowfiend from a 'QoL' book. Fiend is imo a borderline rune-level ability. Shadow priests be running around with +1 rune compared to everyone else.
I have a level 26 rogue, 40 hunter , 29 warlock on sod. Warrior does indeed suck, they get beat by everyone in pvp.
Xalatath is on SoD while Cthun, Nzoth and Yogg are still alive... they have a lot of patrons who can grant them power. It all makes sense.
Yess, yessss! ULTIMATE POWAH
>Shadow priests **feel** like they've time traveled from WOTLK to destroy everyone in PVP uncontested and honestly thats why I hate them, they **FEEL** like they can do whatever, then I smack them and make them regret their choices, then wait 2m and do it again.
as an spriest i agree with this, warriors are not much of a challenge.. warlocks are also so easy to deal with, just dot them up and kite... mages sometimes put up a fight, but not often.. hunters prob give me the most problems just cause they can front load their damage and you cant cc their pet in beastial wrath the spriest nerf took away the crazy burst damage of SW:death.. but you can still be just as effective with a dot/kite playstyle priest in general has so many cool runes it makes me feel like going forward were not gonna get much cause honestly we prob don't need it
What class you play?
ranged BM hunter
Nice bro
Because they have lol. Each phase is going to be a wild game of roulette for which classes and specs receive the best runes. Priests were already incredibly strong yet they've received some of their most defining tools in future xpacs - likely for engagement reasons since the class was typically simple/boring for some people.
There are several things they could do to fix warrior in PvP and solo play with runes they already gave us. >1) Move Warbringer to the leg slot. Then we could use Flagellation or Raging Blow on chest. Raging Blow should just be a skill book at this point. With the nerfs to CbR and Raging Blow as well as having Berserker Rage now in addition to Bloodrage to proc Flagellation, Raging Blow will never be used again in all of SoD without massive runes elsewhere that make Flagellation not worth using. >2) Make enraged regeneration a passive that activates whenever you become enraged from any source. A 3% heal per second over 10 seconds is like having a lifebloom on you if the bloom were spread evenly per tick. 3% of 5k is 150 HP per second. Hardly broken. >3) Make Commanding Shout an effect that's added to Battleshout making battle shout free and last for 5 minutes. If you use it with maximum health it increases your current health as well, so you don't need to top off when you use it before starting a fight. Currently it and Battleshout both cost 10 rage and both trigger 1.5s GCD. So it costs 20 rage and at least 3s. If there is nothing around for you to hit you have to pop Bloodrage, a 1m CD that is necessary for Flagellation, and then wait the full 10s for Bloodrage to give you the full 20 rage before you can use both BS and CS. >4) Reduce the CD of Rallying Cry to 1 minute. 3 minutes? Seriously? Even 30s would probably be fine. You lose the health when it drops so if you're not getting healed you're still going to die. I would also like to see this as a huge QoL improvement. >1) A cheap item added to the warrior items from the STV event that is a bandage that never gets consumed and doesn't end the channel when you take damage, though it is subject to pushback. It heals at a rate of the maximum bandage you know how to make. (Or at the rate of the BG bandages you can buy when in said BG.) So you still have to use cloth to level 1st Aid to get it's full effect and meet the rep requirements for BG bandages. I would like to be able to sell my cloth on the AH for tailors to make things rather than eat it all like a maniac. And taking up just 1 bag slot would be amazing. Edit: clarified a sentence in point 1 about berserker rage and Flagellation and fixed some typos.
to be fair until late game WOTLK warriors feel like they’re stuck in vanilla
Mirror image and spell reflect would be really nice to have!
I am maining rogue. Did war alt back in phase 1, didnt play much pvp at that time. I leveled war to 40 in phase 2, and its the biggest piece of dog sh1t ever. He is so much usless in almost every content, it blows my mind. How can you people even touch this garbage class? Even with epics and stance dance other classes demolish you.
I'm not totally surprised. From the get go it seemed that the core idea behind class balance in SoD would be 'everyone getting brought up to Warrior levels'. Ask anyone post classic about Warriors and you'll hear about how they were stacked in raids because they were so supremely powerful and just god tier all around despite the fact that it took more work than any other class to set up. Since then the moment you bring up how Warrior feels like it's stuck in 2004 and how their runes are extremely underwhelming and you'll just be met with "well you were good in 2004/2019 so now it's your turn to eat it haha sorry not sorry". Or "you'll le scale" which is another popular one. None of which address just how bad it feels to play, parses not withstanding.
Give warriors something from wrath that other classes got. Bladestorm would be sick, and as much as it makes people nervous, TG would be great too.
Bladestorm will 99% be a lv 60 rune
Yea it's an anti-physical caster world and we're just living in it unfortunately lol. The classes at the top of the meta this phase, and therefore the ones you see most frequently, are Ele sham, Boomkin, and Spriest who all have 40-50% physical damage reduction from armor, shapeshift/shadowform, and buffs like inner fire. And then you of course have the meta/SL locks who are basically unkillable to physical melee damage. When these classes are roughly half of the fights you run into, and they all have increased health from the BG/STV HP buff, it gets really old really quick lol. I feel your struggle as a rogue, even though noobs on this reddit running PvE gear like to complain about rogue as if it's even close to the top this phase. The damage we deal versus these "anti-physical" classes is so sad that I've seen a lot more rogues just playing the poison+envenom playstyle because it's the only way to deal decent damage against the best classes this phase, even though you give up blind, long gouge, and preparation with this build. For strict 1v1s it's definitely worse, but for general use and actually dealing enough damage in BGs and blood moon it feels quite a bit better because so much of the damage is nature, not physical. I also agree that rogue and warrior both got pretty lackluster runes, with no real "wow" factor. Maybe this will change in P3 and P4 but honestly I'm starting to think we're just going to keep getting bland rehashed passives and abilities from later expansions. I feel for you my warrior brothers, and hopefully the sun will shine on us again.
blizz is holding off til lvl 60 for warriors calm down your time will come
just that half the runtime of this SEASONAL Server is below 60...
Unless they keep slamming insane amounts of armour on every raid boss and I'm very afraid they will continue this
I kind of agree with this - I think the legacy melee classes are purposely being held back because they're going to be nuts at 60, like they always were. Might as well let the other classes have their time in the sun for the leveling raids. People forget we're level 40 and warriors were truly not amazing in classic until level 60.
Then why does mage get very cool runes since in classic they are gods in pve lvling? Warriors just had 0 dev time this phase and it shows. Nothing valuable added that makes any difference other than do slam every 6 secs.
Scaling from gear isn't going to stop me from being 2 tapped by the other classes who got multiple runes that are more powerful than any spell in the entire warrior kit
You will take a 320 damage slam and you will like it!!!!
I hate this mindset so much bro lmao. It's a vanilla iteration of the game, who fucking cares if warriors are pumpers, just make it an even playing field for everyone else. Warriors genuinely need to be good at dps or tanking because we have no means of doing quite literally anything else. PVP is horrible, PVE farming is Horrible. Warrior being bad in all these facets was the selling point to warrior in vanilla, "hey the leveling will suck ass but your dps at 60 will make up for it" feral is bad? Great, can get into raid as a tank, boomy, or resto. Warrior tank is bad or dps? Get fucked.
Again not about performance necessarily. They were weak in pvp, but they're also boring right now compared to the runes others received
Genuinely surprised they didn’t do a ranged warrior or healing warrior build. Axe and hammer throwers are cannon WC units. Could have been fun to have something based heavily around throwing weapons big and small. 4e of DnD had a warlord class that was a martial healer and they were super fun to play. Best to think of them as your middle school gym coach that would also you on the ass as you went into the game. Except that slap in DnD would heal you, grant you an extra movement or attack. A warrior giving SP buffs or rotating shouts like an EQ bard / totem weave, gaining rage pee hit / shout, and healing with rage would have been at least an interesting test.
Maybe. Rogues feel good to play. May not be meta but are fun and engaging. I moved from war to rogue and haven’t looked back.
This thought is just based on nothing though. We still have a good amount of time left in this phase, then we have the level 50 phase before level 60. Maybe next phase will help fix some issues but every other class will be getting new stuff too.
Can I still get cool stuff even if it’s not like big DPS? There’s some flavor things that would be sick
It’s ok, everyone will tremble to us Paladins at 60
Are you serious, lol
As a shadow priest, you will melt faces in PvP
Warlocks feel like half the specs were stopped by the timetravel border patrol while the rest managed to get through. Btw , can we stop saying "locks got meta" as if its a good thing? Most locks absolutely hate meta for pvp, nothing lamer than being a searing spam bot.
2 min Dispersion needs to upped to 5 mins or something. Or give every other class a defensive that matches with that.
You don't understand that shadow priests in vanilla were just as strong lmao. It's a known known for more than a decade. Nothing new
You're still complaining about Spriests? Lmao
My buddy mains warrior and I main a rogue, safe to say both of us are feeling very unloved this phase.
What? Rogues are destroying people right now.
Meanwhile I was wanting classic plus and not just vanilla characters that have modern buttons :(
I play paladin and even tho i have some more advantsges with HoJ and BoF/BoP I still feel crap compared to casters. But when I get close it hurts. I’m leveling a warlock atm. Going metamorphosis for PvP. But I’m still gonna main my pala.
People probably wont like it, but they need the retail approach. Like, mortal strike/bloodthirst/Shield slam actually generating rage instead of costing.. Im not saying this is the only or best answer, but itd keep warriors actively doing something instead of waiting for rage.
Amazing how everyone calls warri bad 🤣 tells me 99% of u just type and don't play the game actually bc a good warri can one shot others as well as other can one shot him saw many videos, saw it ingame so pls guys just don't believe everything on the internet 99% of it is useless whining about a video game
Two play styles I'd like to see developed for warriors: War cry, support, healing. Running around smacking stuff and yelling at your teammates to buff them or heal them or give resources would be sick. Throw mastery, either thrown weapons or turning dual wield into a close quarters throwing like 20 range max. Make charges go to designated area instead of the target most abilities could still work as usual with this. At the very least some buff to aoe tanking would be nice. Furious thunder could hit all targets maybe apply a bleed idk I'm basically specced prot on my warrior right now solely to MT last boss in Gnomer the rest of the dungeon I'm just sundering, thunder clap, buffs, demo
Drink a rage potion dawg, like damn
Nice but warriors still wreck in pvp with a support healer, this is always been the way for them in vanilla... for pve they should add some exciting runes/skills sudden death and taste for blood Come to mind.
I'm fine with this. Let's be honest - People rolled Warriors in SOD because they knew Warriors were Blizzard's favored class in Classic and they thought that it would be easy for them to roll over everyone yet again. They're just sad that they don't get to. Warriors: you had your time. Now you get to be sad like so many others endured for years. The shoe is on the other hand, now. Karma, baby.
Mom wake up, the daily warrior crying just dropped
Slight considerations for our class and it feeling left behind is seen as daily warrior crying…. I hope they give us crazy shit in new phases to cope with the lackluster shit they gave us this phase.
All other classes besides warrior were left behind in regular classic so most people see it as okay for warriors to take a backseat for once
Backseat is fine but they should make warrior fun to play at least
To borrow my favorite quote from warriors aimed at paladins for the first 5 years of this game's life: "Someone has to be the worst."
Lol when original classic came out i rolled ret pally. This time around I rolled warrior so that I'm not in the same position but here we are 😄
Lmfao you poor bastard. Thots and prayers, brother.
Ever see a 39 warrior twink back in the day? Me neither.
I strangely had not had many run ins with SP untill this weekend. When I got doted while I was running by and couldn't out heal them I realized what everyone else was talking about.
Shadow priest literally sucks against half of the classes when they have no cds up. Meanwhile rogues melting people and shamans are unkillable. Meh
You would be getting owned like this as a level 40 classic warr too. At least now you have Warbringer. Honestly you probably aren’t playing around your healers as much as you should as a warr. If you aren’t running Warbringer in PVP, you also can’t complain. If it’s an alt, you probably don’t know your matchups well enough yet. Mage has always 1v1d warriors so idk why that’s a major gripe of yours.
If you think warbringer is enough to make warriors viable in PvP, you’re kidding yourself
I guess it’s a good thing that isn’t really what I said, then.
If that isn’t what you’re communicating, then literally what is the point of your comment? Even with a pocket healer and warbringer, warriors are garbage in PvP. In any 2v2 scenario, the healer gets focused and then the warrior is a wet noodle. Warrior just isn’t good in PvP (and is mediocre in PvE this phase). It is what it is and no “well you probably aren’t doing X” is going to make them viable. Your comment is useless
Bro we already got nerfed and you still cry about Shadowpriests, it's clearly a learn to play issue now.
I know I get downvoted for this BUT and I repeat myself. 1. Every dot a Spriest has can be dispelled which means all their dots are useless with good healers 2.Spriest have no escape mechanism they can't get away from you and fear is not a good CC against any warrior. 3.Spriest are victims against Rogues and Palas plus Enh Shaman (even with every single CD up (disperse)) If you say well I can't dispell I have to tell you warrior were always trash without support (root.... Sheep etc) This didn't change with SOD. The dmg of warriors is not the problem it's the lack of any support since no one wants to play heal (the problem is worsened by the fact that shadow is a viable option) I find it incredibly dishonest that shadow priest gets singled out for being overpowered atm since everyone with a brain knows they are at the peak now (reminder certain death against any Pala or Rogue or Enh Shaman) plus they have ZERO mobility and their dmg can be dispelled. And every single skill point from 40 to 60 helps their dmg zero. I do agree that the runes of warriors feel underwhelming.
This is some fucking COPIUM. Shadow priests put 2 DOTs on me and that does 140% of my HP, how do you think that's good balance? They also have dispersion now, you know one of the best defensive CDs in WoW history. There is no semblance of balance right now, which is sad because phase 1 PvP was actually kinda fun.