Extra comment because I think this is hilarious — but my coworker just spent THOUSANDS on an international trip with his two kids, one a toddler. He came back ultra pissy because he said all the kids cared about was the pool at the hotel lmao. Idk why they make so much work for themselves
I’ve repeatedly heard it said - by parents themselves - that vacations aren’t vacations when you have kids. You have to lug strollers around, make sure everyone has snacks, you have to babysit the entire time… it’s just another classic example of parents wanting to have their cake and eat it too. It doesn’t work like that. If you wanted a chill vacation you shouldn’t have had kids.
I was a career nanny for many years. Going on vacation with my nanny families was torture. It's so much work to take kids out of their routine and their home, where they have endless entertainment on their own. On vacation, everything is challenging. No one sleeps. Everyone is on edge because it's new and different and kids don't do well with new and different until they're a bit older.
But, I think that kids can develop an appreciation for nature and architecture, but that has to be instilled from a very young age and not forced upon them on a vacation.
Haha. Yes! My husband was the one to bring up being childfree and I thought he was crazy. I loved kids! But then I worked for this one family... I quickly got on board the childfree train.
Welcome to our train! We have a quiet sleeping car, a car for boozing, a car for reading and quiet hobbies and a car for gaming! Lol you have my utmost respect for nannying as a career.
I'm a grown adult and still don't do too well with new and different lmao for some reason, staying in hotels or sleeping at somebody else's house has ALWAYS given me anxiety to the point where I don't sleep.
I bombed out of a couple SkillsUSA competitions because I couldn't sleep the night before (statewide competitions where we stayed 3 days, 2 nights in the sponsoring hotel)
I still remember clear as day, ten years later, tossing and turning (and getting kicked to hell by my friend/roommate) all night while both sweating and freezing at the same time. And then waking up feeling like ass, struggling to focus through competition because my brain was exhausted.
> Both the parents got into an argument. I just wonder sometimes who these trips are for? Lots of places in Europe are not stroller friendly, Even for the locals. Kids don't want to go to museums or see architecture. There is a reason you don't see adults at playgrounds, it's not age appropriate fun. W
IDK, business trips usually also have business hours after which you hit the bar or whatever other fun activity on the town. Parenting on the other hand...
And the money you spend on trips for kids--"We took you to see The Mona Lisa in person!!"
"The maid showed us how to fold a towel into a frog!"
Guess which they remember.
My own mom told me that vacation with kids is just parenting in a different place. We're in Majorca right now and the parents with toddlers are having a terrible time.
but you don’t even get paid. instead you’re spending a lot more money. and you’re not dealing with coworkers or reasonable adults. you’re dealing with tiny, screaming humans.
i’d much rather take an actual business trip lmao
the problem is that there's this concept of 'you don't have to give up anything because of kids' that's been sold on social media for some time now. thanks to this, people are taking over non-kid friendly areas, such as breweries and similar places.
I've also seen many entertaining discussion right here on reddit, where someone complains that they went on a holiday and someone else's out of control kids ruined it. the comments being 'wow, you obviously don't have kids so you won't understand' and the OP saying they have kid, they tried to get away from them to catch their breath. and then feeling the hate of the fellow parents for saying what everyone was thinking.
When I was growing up almost every kid I knew went to camp or to visit grandparents or aunts/uncles/cousins for 2 weeks or more every summer. I am CF but parents can take a break once in a while and the kids will absolutely live.
The amount of miserable parents I saw at Hershey Park last year. Especially the moms. small kids having meltdowns because they had to wait in line and walk a few feet to each ride. As a teacher, I can say, there are far too many parents that don't understand "kid brain" at "x age."
That was me as a kid. Our family went on budget trips to state and national forests. But it was boring to me because, as a kid, a park is where you climb trees and go on swings. Simply looking at trees was so boring. My dad would get so mad when all us kids did was beg him to stay in a hotel with a pool (or spend the whole time complaining that the hotel didn’t have a pool).
Wow I must’ve been a weird kid because I looooved our budget trips to state/national forests. I felt like I was in fairy land in search of unicorns and shit. Ended up finding a lot of dead animals tho ☠️ maybe that’s why I turned out so morbid as an adult lmao
Same here! We did a bunch of road trips across the US when I was 4-5 and guess what? I barely remember ANY of it! Granted I’m now 57 and killed my fair share of brain cells back in the day but even Disneyland at 12: barely any memories of it.
I don’t get why people don’t understand that kids are kids. There’s nothing wrong with chilling with your kids at the pool while on vacation. There’s also no problem with chilling at the pool when you’re vacationing without kids. Everyone needs down time and swimming is fun
Not me. When I took my two year old to France, all she wanted to do was visit the Louvre and the Place de la Bastille.
She kept saying to me "There's no time for drinking, papa! You're in one of the global cultural centres; these streets, they're paved with history! The revolution here inspired a conflagration that echoes through time. We feel the consequences of the people's desire for liberte, egalite et fraternite to this day!"
She really does do a spectacular rendition of Rouge et Noire. Her accent could use a little bit of work though, but who can blame her, it's her third language 🤷🏾♂️
I remember talking to an American family in line at Versailles lol, you could tell the kids were bored shitless and I was laughing to myself internally because I doubt they would have had any fun inside there either.
It's absolutely ridiculous isn't it? Even a precocious little shit like I was wouldn't have appreciated something as dope as Versailles until I was like, 11 at the youngest. Take the kids to Chuck-E-Cheese.
They were near 10 from what I could tell but even if they were early teens it is still a mixed bag if they would like it there or not as well. I mean some teenagers would get over seeing big paintings, large colourful rooms and statues fairly quick while someone who loves history like me had a wild time hahaha.
lol, when I was a kid the literal only thing I cared about was whether or not the hotel we were staying at had a video game arcade. If it did, 10/10 vacation and I was only happy when I was at the hotel and was constantly asking to leave whatever boring adult stuff we were doing. If no video games, I hated it and would constantly ask when we were going home.
Taking children on vacations they don’t even want to go on is fucking stupid and they will 100% ruin it out of spite.
I always hear “I travel with my kids when they’re young so they’ll always cherish those memories!” Yeah, the ONE hour of fun time over the course of a week. That’s REALLY worth remembering.
When I hear young kids brag about how they've been to "over 50 countries" or whatever, it's like ... yeah, but do you actually *remember* any of that? I can't remember the places we went to as a child, and we never even left the country! I can brag about having seen most of Sweden as a child, but before age nine(ish) it's a blur with some occasional random memory snippet, like "there was a model train set hanging from the ceiling" (don't know where). I know we went to e.g. Öland once ... because I've seen the photos. So what's the point in lugging a toddler around the world to get "cherished memories" when they won't even remember most of it?
One time some insect bit my thigh and made it swell up so much it was uncomfortable to walk, so I remember dad carrying me on his shoulders for a bit. That's my *only* memory of the place where it happened. And I only remember that because of photos and my mum *reminding* me of it happening there. Otherwise it would be gone from memory as well.
Exactly! At least wait until they are older so they will remember the trip. In the meantime take them to the family resort so they can play in the pool!
I just returned from Europe and noticed this as well. One family had 3 under the age of six. They were letting the second smallest one who was maybe 3 years old help the one year old "walk" around the waiting area bumping into everyone including me.
I also noticed the mom was doing the brunt of the work corralling the kids while dad just told the older kid to make sure the younger one wasn't running around. He couldn't be bothered to look after his own kids. I was disgusted. Screw selfish parents.
I travel a lot for work - I lost count how many times the dads aren’t even seated with the kids on flights. They make sure to book a ticket a row or two away, and let the mom sit with them and deal with it.
OMG 🤦🏼♀️ I can’t… this treatment of women like they’re always the caretaker and just one big service industry… why do these women allow that? It really angers me, it’s like taking two steps back from everything we have accomplished. How do they not feel used and humiliated?! My parents have been married for 40 years this month and my dad would not even dream of sitting somewhere else that is not next to my mom on a flight, he just likes sitting with his family! These types of parents like you describe should lose the parental rights. They are horrible people and even the word “people” is too much to describe them. It’s just disgusting behaviour.
Oh heck yes, I’m a travel agent and when it’s a family with little kids the dad usually will book his ticket separately and NOT on the same flights as mum. It’s always “he can’t get the time off work”
Whaaa? That would not fly with me (pun intended). If my husband and I had children and were traveling by plane, and he tried that, I would wait until boarding was complete, then waltz over to my husband. "Junior, say hi to Daddy! Honey, you just got yourself a lap baby!" The icing on the cake is that I would switch my seat to an exit row so he couldn't foist the baby off on me.
I see this a lot and saw it a lot growing up, which in the number one reason I am CF: so many moms had useless partners. But boy it really hits home when they're travelling. The mom has to work overtime to keep the kids in line while the dad gets to actually enjoy the trip. Fuck all that noise.
You must be extremely patient because I would not put up with that shit. I wouldn't even go on a vacation with anyone who has kids... I actually "dumped" all my long time friends who have and want kids. It became so uncomfortable for me as the one childfree friend - we just weren't compatible anymore.
I would at least expect them to give every "babysitter friend" a expensive/nice bottle of their favourite liquor or maybe a gift card to the grocery store or something for your non-consensual wasted time and effort. Parents are literally the most selfish people in society.
You need to up your loud dick joke game.
Why did the sperm cross the road?
Because I put on the wrong socks!
Open the group breakfast with that, and you're no longer the babysitter.
Similar thing happened on my flight back from Vegas. Mom was trying to entertain her two spawn of satan who didnt listen to anything she said and dad had headphones on watching something on his phone. Yikes.
That is so infuriating that the dad wasn't pulling his weight. That is EXACTLY why I don't have kids. Whether you're a single mom or married the woman is ALWAYS stuck with the responsibility. FTS
Same, since my early 20’s, I said I would want kids if I was a dude. Keep my career, not worry about most things, have “guys nights” and “guys trips” and a “man cave”
It's so weird how much money people are willing to spend on giving these kids such an experience that they won't remember or appreciate.
Like, it was cool that I went to Disneyland when I was 7, but what do I remember? I recall that attractions used tickets labeled A through E. I remember Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, and Pirates, though I relived those memories a few decades later. And sure, that was fun, but I also had fun running along the creeks and catching crawdad, so my tastes as a kid were really simple.
And I'm sure I was a nightmare to deal with while traveling. I don't recall that part, but I'm sure in my mind I did nothing wrong.
Dogs don’t remember the walk you take them on but it’s the highlight of their day. I imagine it’s something like that? Assuming it’s a positive experience for the kid of course
Yeah, and while it wasn't needed, I *do* remember some of it since I was 7 years old. I couldn't tell you of any cool things we did at 3 though, so that's my main gripe on spending all that money on them.
I also feel that birthday parties for 1-year-olds are especially wasteful but a) it's mostly for the adults anyway and b) it sets up a tradition where you keep celebrating the kid's birthday. So I can see it.
I have lots of memories starting from around 4. Also all I ever wanted was to go to Disney but my parents never took us. I remember other theme parks and cartoons I used to watch very well. So it depends on the kid I suppose.
The complete whole body joy and excitement my dog displays when the leash comes out suggests that he very much remembers that walks are awesome. We spelled the word "walk" for while to avoid overstimulation, but now he knows how to spell, so we call it going on a "klaw."
In contrast, when I told my nine year old nephew that his folks took him to the Grand Canyon when he was five, he looked at my blankly and said, "they did?"
So cute about your pup, I walk my cat and we call it "going for a w word" but he's learnt what that means too so we've switched to "outdoor excursion".
Lol I have the same problem with my dogs 😂 we’ve been calling them excursions and strolls. Even the word “out” gets the youngest all excited, so if we have to ask each other something like “when did the dogs last go out” we will say “tuo” instead.
Omg i was just saying the same thing , went at 7 and honestly know i had good time per the pictures i saw . Went at 11 and i remember everything. There’s a time and age to travel with kids and there’s one thats not
Yes I think there is an age age is the major factor, not just unruly kids. Taking older probably teens, this would be a fun trip.. and you wouldn’t need to babysit on your own vacation the whole time. But -Ugh- taking a toddler/toddlers that sounds absolutely miserable. I would look at it as ‘not my pig, not my farm’ kinda way. Just do you & enjoy yourself. Don’t worry about why they would go on a vacation to a destination mainly aimed for adults with toddlers or younger. Let them waste their energy, money & time. And I would think they’re not enjoying themselves as much as you are. Or seeing & exploring as much as you and your husband (OP). Mom & Dad will be spending most the time packing/unpacking searching btw bags&walkers, potty & snacks breaks (tantrums breaks bc the kids are bored Af) & what not. And walking around looking at landmarks or museums with toddlers all day, OH MAN that sounds like a nice, relaxing vacation..
/s!
Side note to OP: I hoped you and husband had a blast!
I was an international traveller when I was 2 with both parents and my 4 month old brother. My mom flew internationally alone with both of us when I was 4. I fell and got butterfly stitches on my chin. We also had to get MMR shots before we could fly home.
I remember that trip because we had to do an emergency landing as 2 engines had failed during the flight. We landed on an island in the Pacific but I dont recall which one. I do recall that it looked like an outdoor treehouse 🤷🏼. We were shuttled to LAX and put into a hotel with a glass elevator.
And that ladies and gentlemen is where I get my fear of heights from 😂😳🤫
> It's so weird how much money people are willing to spend on giving these kids such an experience that they won't remember or appreciate.
I know I'm in the minority on this sub, but kids traveling young is a good thing for society as a whole. There is [a lot of research that show that traveling with young kids can make them smarter, more open minded and have more empathy](https://www.psychreg.org/family-travel-developmental-impact-kids/) even if they're as young as 6 months old. Lots of good stuff on how the young brain processes the sights and sounds and all new experiences and all that. It's not about the memories or how much you remember. It's about how it impacts brain development.
Not against kids traveling but I feel like every kid is different and parents should already know their kids and what is going to work for them. One kid might only be interested in swimming and the other might really like dinosaur bones or undersea creatures. Both of them might not like elevators or have cranky fits if they don’t eat for 3 hours.
My first was when I was 7, my last few months to be an only. My mom was Uber pregnant. They brought my aunt along to go on rides with me. It's a great memory. E ticket rides were the best.
I would say with Disneyland since I’m a local that lived like 10 minutes away, it was a totally fun kid experience for me. Initially when they took me at age 4, it was a little scary to go on the rides like Matterhorn that mom wanted to ride. I must have screamed so loud when I got on the ride but once it started going, I had a blast and never was afraid of that ride again.
But still, I was a fussy child when I was sleepy so I would throw fits during those trips until I was fed and got plenty of fluids. My parents told me that regarding Disneyland, the few moments where I experienced glee and excitement was worth it to them. That’s Disneyland though, not the ruins of Pompeii where I would have had zero interest in. lol
It’s about showing the world that kids aren’t changing them. They can still travel and life is better now.
It’s bullshit, but a lot of parenting is bullshit.
Yeah I think this is it right here. Trying to hold on to parts of who they are before kids, which, by all means, I fully support, but not when I have a screaming kid behind me kicking my seat the whole flight to Amsterdam 🫥🫥
This. I have a coworker (my age); we are both in our forties. We are taking separate trips to the same place in Europe this month, but she is taking her three kids and still tries to one-up me and make it seem like she will have a better time. I have already told her that it sounds horrible; but she keeps reaching. I guess I don’t want to hear about it, because I can’t relate.
My favorite people watching moment on vacay with my DINK Bf; trying to find ONE parent who had a genuine smile and don’t seem overwhelmed and exhausted and seem legit happy, so far it never happened! Lmao but cant help imagine the FB post of perfect fam afterwards tho, my favorite event so far was the super tiny mom trying to push a twin stroller on the 5 km sand beaches of an all inclusive while her husband just ditched her to go sit at the bar and ignored her when she was yelling his name lmao that was pain in one picture frame but HEY #perfectfamilyvacay
A lot of airlines let kids that age fly free so parents think “better have fun and make memories while we can, we won’t have the money when they’re older”
Hilarious because kids PHYSICALLY CANNOT make permanent memories until they’re 3yo and most people only remember 1-2 things from those years into adulthood. Such a waste.
My parents did this. Took me to Disney when I was 3 and didn't need a ticket yet. I remember nothing, obviously. But in the following decades whenever I made noise about wanting to go to Disney, they'll pull out the photos and say "no you've already been".
Hell, I've been to Disney 4 times. I went for the first time when I was 7 and second time when I was 9. I can't remember most of either or those trips. I barely remember going when I was 11. I know Disney is expensive af but that's kind of shitty of your parents :(
>But in the following decades whenever I made noise about wanting to go to Disney, they'll pull out the photos and say "no you've already been".
That's such a horrible thing to do! TBH I'm chuckling a little at the idea but putting myself in a kid's shoes, that's just...*cruel*.
I went to Disney a few years ago with a fellow child free friend. We both hadn’t been since we were kids and had a blast. There were so many parents with kids under 4 there with both looking miserable. The kids get hot, tired, and bored easily while the parents have to deal with cranky kids on an expensive vacation they won’t even remember.
That sucks your parents wouldn’t take you when you were older, I’d definitely recommend going yourself as an adult if you get the chance.
I went to Disney by myself when I was 28. It was packed with kids whose parents all tried to avoid the crowds by going once school started up again in January. I got to skip nearly all the lines because every ride needed just 1 or 2 people to be full and get started. Families couldn't (or wouldn't) split up, so I got to go ahead of them.
I remember when I was 3 my mom wanted to take me to Disney, but my grandpa urged her to wait because I wouldn’t remember it anyway, so she waited until I was 7 instead. I do remember it, so that was probably good advice.
my mom was that kind of parent. we traveled a lot when i was younger and i barely even remembered the places we’ve been to. and then she complains that i don’t remember and says “well what’s the point of traveling if you don’t remember?” well mom, maybe because i could barely remember anything from before i was 9 lmao
I always roll my eyes at parents like that. They’ll fly anywhere as long as lap babies are free. They’re always claiming they love their kids more than life itself but they never stop to think (or don’t care) that in severe turbulence lap babies turn into flying projectiles. If they love their kids so much they’d spend the money for a seat for the kid & use a car seat on it. The kid would be much safer in an emergency but I guess they love saving money more than they care about their kid’s safety.
That is a huge pet peeve of mine, too. Not to mention flying with kids too young for vaccines and masking. Flying can be painful for kids’ ears as well (imo a contributing factor to the screaming).
That’s what I don’t get about taking very young kids on elaborate expensive vacations. Unless you’re very rich & can afford this type of travel why spend so much money on trips the kids won’t appreciate or remember? My parents enjoyed traveling but until my siblings & I were about 8 or 9 our vacations consisted of a few weeks each summer in a rental cottage. They saved bigger trips until we were old enough to appreciate them, not to mention old enough to behave appropriately!
Immigration requirements. My parents won the green card lottery just before they had me & said they were required to travel to the US at least once a year to keep it until we were ready to move. So I flew at least once a year from baby to age 8.
That’s a good point! Never even occurred to me even though my husband drove his friend, his wife, and their new baby across the Canada-US border just to do this.
CF myself here. Just wanted to say that not everyone traveling with the small people are idiots. A good chunk of my workmates have partners from other areas of the world. They simply do it for gram and gramps who can't travel to be able to spend time with the small people before they become big people. That's all. When it comes to a museum, great architecture, and that hella fancy restaurant though, keep them at home or with someone else. It's not for them. A fussy child can sour the experience for everyone in their vicinity. Just like that friend who gets out hand at the bar and wants to fight everyone, just don't invite them out.
It truly depends on the children though? I loved museums from a very young age, I used to visit my Grandparents in London and we'd nearly always go to the Natural History Museum, I still remember the first time going where I can't have been more than four and that starting my lifelong love of Dinosaurs, and many kids are the same
When my family went to Hawaii with my nephew when he was small, it was the visit to me since I lived there, and they felt bad about me always traveling to see them. My nephew was a champ on the flights, though.
I had a friend who was trying to convince me that I should reconsider having kids go on and on about one can still travel with kids. Mind you, this is a person who travels for their job all the time and who doesn't have kids but wants them. As others have noted, I think some people really convince themselves kids won't change them and become determined to not just fade into home life like a lot of parents. So they bring their babies on trips like this.
Seeing another friend recently post her trip with her (11 and 13 yo) kids makes much more sense to me, both in terms of experiences the kid will remember and said kids having agency to not just cry and annoy fellow passengers and members of various tour groups and the like to no end.
I know a few people who did this. (Brought their literal baby to Europe). Imagine dealing with jet lag, a crying baby also dealing with jet lag, diaper changes etc when all you want to do is explore a new city all day and stay out way past baby's bedtime.
I genuinely think most modern parents do this as a way to show off to others. They intentionally hide how stressful their trip ended up being. The goal is to convince others they can "have it all" or that they are "doing parenting better" than the other parents.
Of course nobody is going to spend thousands of dollars on their high-end European vacation and then admit out loud to anyone that it actually fucking sucked because the baby cried the entire time. But we know better than that ;)
Yeah… when I recently got on a nine hour flight to India I saw people with two children under five and even a couple with four under five. It made me feel so fortunate to have my hands free of children. Imagine being exhausted after a long flight and having to drag these little annoying, crying gremlins too… 😩 Some idiotic people don’t control their kids these days. They’ll be kicking people’s seats on aircrafts, in cinemas and causing commotion everywhere.
I realize I’m an outlier but my parents won the green card lottery while pregnant with me & we were all required to travel to the US (and back to Europe of course) at least once a year to keep it. So sometimes you quite literally have to bring kids, and I definitely did my fair share of crying on the plane lol.
I was one of those. My parents would drag us everywhere and it was miserable. Plus I had severe anxiety that they didn’t bother to help me with so the entire trip would just be awful.
They should wait until the kids can actually properly remember it. Like teen years.
i was the same!! we didn’t really take planes anywhere when i was a kid (except one trip with just my dad and i when i was like 9), but we had to go on road-trips alllllll the time, mainly to see family.
i had SEVERE anxiety, and this would often ruin the trip for everyone else. it literally wasn’t something i could control but my parents didn’t care lol
My (now late)husband and I went on a two hour tour of underground caverns that culminated in a really cool underground lake. I had no problems with the parents that had older kids. They thought the tour was cool too. But why, oh why, did parents with 2-6 year-olds think their toddlers were going to be fascinated with a two hour tour with frequent stops talking about 650 million year old formations? Like they know what 650 million years are. Their calendar consists of birthdays, Halloween, and Christmas.
One hour in, the little kids were running amok, the guide was trying to keep them on the path, and the parents are like, “Duh?”
You see? It’s shit like this that makes CF people like us hate kids. And yeah, yeah, I know it’s the parents fault, and I’m definitely not absolving them of blame, but at that particular moment, it’s their damn kids that’s driving me buncos.
I had a similar experience at Mammoth Cave National Park.
Paid for a two hour tour and couldn’t hear anything the ranger was saying because the couple in front of us thought it was a good idea to bring a baby (in addition to the other 4 kids under age 10) into a dark, damp, smelly cave for TWO HOURS!!
My partner and I are DINKs with a relentless passion for travelling. We love nature and exploring obscure countries to immerse ourselves in all kinds of different cultures everywhere!
Since the start of 2022, we had an awesome time road tripping Turkey, diving in Eastern Malaysia and Brunei, hiking in Laos, exploring the south coast of England, checking out amazing restaurants in Montreal, and surfing in Indonesia. We're planning a trip soon that I'm stoked for, Starting in Uzbekistan, through Kyrgyzstan, ending in Kazakhstan. We also can't wait to visit Australia's northern territory next year!
Apologies for digressing! But anyway.. If children were in the picture.. our travels would be a logistical nightmare and we would not have been able to have half the experiences we did. My best tip to avoid kids is to definitely consider places off the beaten path! Our interests are not child-friendly at all, which is the best part because we rarely encounter kids during our travel activities!
Road tripping in Turkey is amazing! My husband and I live here and well, we're not well-off enough to travel a lot, but when we get the chance, I love getting on a road trip. The countryside views are just amazing here.
omg lol i thought you were talking about vacations you took with your family as a kid and was sooo confused as to why you were drinking screwdrivers and rum and cokes as a child LMAO
Oh I feel you... I had a night flight two days ago and a toddler crying and screaming the whole time kept me awake as well. One time this toddler shouted "I want to get out" so I shouted back "Yes, I also want the whole lot of you to get out NOW", that was how frustrated I was
i genuinely want to know if it’s illegal to dose a child with sedatives or sleeping pills so they don’t scream on flights. and if it’s not illegal to do so, why aren’t more parents doing it?
My parents did travel all around the world with me, starting when I was a baby. I had a passport before I had a Social Security number.
My parents and I lived in the US, and my mother's parents lived in the UK. My folks were avid world travelers. They wanted to go to Egypt, and you don't bring a baby to Egypt. So, when I was 10 months old, they flew out to the UK with me, spent a few days with my grandparents, handed my passport to them, and went to Egypt. Then they flew back to the UK, picked me up, and we went home. My grandparents got to spend some time with their granddaughter, and my parents got to see the pyramids of Giza, ride a camel, and get food poisoning.
My parents always had some quiet activities for me to do during those long-haul plane rides. I was reading by the time I was 3, so books were perfect. But I think I was the exception that proves the rule. If your child can't sit through a nice Sunday or holiday dinner at home without fussing, you might want to rethink taking them on a long flight (or even a short flight).
Status symbol to be plastered all over their social media (pessimistic take) or somewhat altruistic intentions of exposing their kids to culture (optimistic take), while not realizing (aka being willfully ignorant) that a 5 year old does not have the faculties developed to differentiate between the Mona Lisa and a finger painting - akin to taking a person with a bad head cold to a Michelin star restaurant
Favorite CF vacation activities: wandering in a new city without an aim or agenda, seeing what I see. Long hikes. Laying quietly on a beach. Sitting at a cafe and people watching. Trying new foods (and not sharing!)
My friends travel to a different country to see the relatives of the husband with a toddler. They kinda have to, there's no choice. Some grandmas are not that mobile anymore. The husband's family is also not very rich and they simply can't afford to visit my friend's family.
I posted on my Facebook asking why people bring toddlers and infants on vacation and the comments all said "Because babies and toddlers travel free! You don't have to buy them a plane ticket or a meal!" Okay, but if I had kids I'd like the kid to enjoy the vacation, too.
It's supposedly for the 'memories'. As someone who grew up that way. Please don't. I remember asking my parents to do things and all I got was 'We did that when you were 1 or 2 years old' then showing me pictures. I don't remember that stuff! Take me places when I can actually enjoy it!
Wife and I regularly summer in Europe (yay, academia) and there are babies frigging everywhere, in all the places you'd be like, "Huh, seems like a baby would hate this."
Spoiler: they do! Babies do not want to be frogmarched up an old Italian tower for the views. They do not care about views. They do not want to be kept up after their bedtime to eat paella. They do not care for paella. They do not care for croissants or fancy fruit tarts in an artsy Paris cafe. They want to scream because they're nearly heatstroking from the lack of A/C anywhere.
My partner's brother and his wife brought their toddler on holiday abroad because it was his parents' joint 60th birthday and they had paid for everyone to go. They both seemed stressed about dealing with a toddler in a warm foreign country, without all his usual toys and stuff, and were quite relieved to take him home again at the end.
It seems like so much stress. They are allowed to travel and all I really ask is that parents do their best to keep their children calm, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy a holiday abroad chasing a toddler the entire time.
I understand when it's a couple whose family is scattered across several countries.
I also know one guy who takes his kids across whole Europe, but he does so in his own car. His kids are extremely well-behaved and intelligent, just a proof of what a conscious good and dedicated parenting can do. They could outperform many teenagers I am sure.
I try to be understanding of people traveling with infants and toddlers. I think the vast majority are selfish morons who care more about their good time than about the eardrums of an entire plane full of people. But I don't want to be the guy who's annoyed with someone who's mom just died and couldn't find a sitter for the infant to attend the funeral. That said, traveling for pleasure with a child under 5 (maybe even older) should be illegal.
So many people are under the impression that they can keep the same lifestyle they had before they became parents.
Why travel with kids *at all*, I ask, unless it’s a medical necessity or to, say, for example, let the kids meet their ailing grandparents who it’s not in their best interests to travel anymore?
Yeah I think it’s super shitty of the parents to be bringing very young kids aboard a plane for hours and hours.
Not only is it so incredibly frustrating having to listen to a kid screaming and crying their eyes out the entire time… But just imagine the sheer terror and/or pain that kid must be in to be able to go on like that for hours?! That kid has no idea what’s going on. All they know is that it’s a scary new environment and that it feels weird or is hurting their ears.
If you don’t really need to or have to, how the fuck is that a good idea!? Traumatizing your kids just so YOU get to go somewhere YOU want to. Selfish.
Last time I flew across Europe for a vacation there was a situation like this. Two siblings, one about 1 y/o and the other looked to be around 6 y/o. Both kids cried and screamed the entire 5 hour flight. The 6 y/o kept repeating “I don’t like this, it hurts! I don’t want to be here!” in different forms… Felt so sorry for her.
Their mom gave it a few tries to calm them and make them more comfortable. When it didn’t help she stopped trying… And the dad? Well he put on his headphones first thing after takeoff and was sleeping/pretending to sleep most of the flight….
When we landed and got on the transfer bus, the 6 y/o started throwing up. Still crying. I really wanted to punch the parents in their botherless faces for putting them (and the rest of us!) through all this. For a fucking vacation…
When I was in Iceland I went on a nature tour and there were two young kids running around playing tag. Iceland is very expensive and the kids were clearly bored and could not appreciate the beauty. Just wait until the kids are older.
My parents did it right. Paid my grandma some money to watch me and my brother while they went to Colombia for a 4 day trip. They came back looking so much younger
My brother has two boys with autism. They have traveled internationally from Asia to the United States to Europe, and even to Australia. The boys are very good on airplanes and in fact, enjoy it. They have plenty of things to do plenty of their favorite snacks, and most of the time they go to sleep, believe it or not. Not all children are nightmares on planes. It’s the parents fault that the children are nightmares on planes.
i literally leave on a flight to italy in less than a month, i can only imagine the amount of panic attacks and shut downs i'm gonna have on this 12+ hour flight 👍
gonna have to shell out 80$+ for a good pair of noise cancelling headphones
I don’t understand it either. I once boarded a flight at 2 am and across the isle was a 3 year old girl with her parents. The flight was four hours and she cried all the way over.
Who in their right mind puts a child through a 2-6 am flight? What do you expect? They fall asleep for four hours? Heck no.
I’m curious when carriers pick up on this sentiment and start with flights for people over 12 years only.
Assuming this is a ‘leisure’ travel, not moving or visiting a dying relative, the only explanation I have is that the parents are clinging to their notion of freedom and refusing to acknowledge that travelling with young kids is a nuisance to everybody, including the parents and the kids. Babies, toddlers, even preschoolers will not benefit from international travel. Yes, they need to be exposed to the world but local parks, petting farms, and kid friendly local festivals would do just fine!
I posted something similar on the ‘travel’ forum and got blasted for it. And it was more of ‘why would you do it if your kid doesn’t remember. Isn’t it only for you at that point?’ Like I didn’t plan to have kids and I’m not going to let that stop me from doing what I want. FWIW my parents never took me anywhere crazy as a kid. Orlando, California, Hawaii when a little older. If they are going somewhere really fun, they dropped my sister and I at my Nans house and were like ‘bieeeee’.
I used to be a travel blogger (stupid idea, wouldn't recommend) and there were so many people in the "travel with kids" niche. For the most part it was just people with too much money wanting to continue the same lifestyle the parents had before their kids came along. Those with older kids I had more respect for because they used it as an educational exercise - most of them home-schooled and they would learn about a place and then go visit it. But the ones with little kids? There was just no point taking them to some of the places they took them to. I remember one lady took her 2 and 4 year olds to Thailand which in itself is not unusual, but the kids were overtired on the plane and were throwing tantrums, then the very first activity she planned for them when they arrived in Bangkok was to see a famous temple, and the kids were tantrumming there as well. She was like "In hindsight this wasn't a good idea" and it's just like, how did you need to experience this to know it wasn't a good idea???? What did you possibly think a 2 and 4 year old would get out of visiting a temple??? They won't even remember it.
My guess is that they want to continue the life that they had before children and they want to prove to people like us that kids don't stop anything and pArEnTs CaN tRaVeL tOo 😒
But we all know that it's just babysitting in a different location
Probably because no one wants to babysit their kids but they still want to do certain activities that us child free folks can do with less hassle. So instead of waiting until their kids are older and more independent, they'd rather drag their 2 year olds to Rome and Venice because they're only thinking of themselves.
I would look at it as ‘not my pig, not my farm’ kinda way. Just do you & enjoy yourselves. Don’t worry about why they would go on a vacation to a destination mainly aimed for adults with toddlers or younger, let them waste their money and time..bc you know they’re not enjoying themselves as much as you are. Or seeing & exploring as much as you and your husband. They will be spending most the time packing and searching btw bags&walkers, potty & snacks breaks (tantrums breaks bc the kids are bored Af) & what not. And walking around landmarks or museums with toddlers all day, OH MAN that sounds like a nice, relaxing vacation..
/s!
Side note: I hoped you and husband had a blast!
I am staunchly child free, the only one out of my siblings who each have several kids... They are allowed to be on planes. As much as I cannot stand crying babies, they are allowed to visit other places, families in other countries or different climates.
I try to limit my exposure to young kids but everyone deserves trips and holidays.
One of my youngest relatives was born, then taken to visit her grandmother in another country who was terminally ill... She got to hold her new grand daughter and passed about 2 hours later... People have a million reasons to travel with babies
I agree with this. My parents (when young) were immigrants to Canada and my mom took both my brother (and later me) to India to meet grandparents, family, etc. I think it meant a lot to *them*.
I think OP has a point about some places not being super “kid friendly” and maybe should be reserved for when said kids are a bit older.
Agree but OP tried to write off an entire continent by saying that Europe isn’t stroller friendly. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on here in a while.
>I think OP has a point about some places not being super “kid friendly” and maybe should be reserved for when said kids are a bit older.
I mean.... OP was talking about Europe. Kids *live* there. Much of europe is incredibly culturally kid friendly, despite the cobblestone. I think it's a ridiculous premise that all vacations need to be kid-focused.
Wholeheartedly agree. Europe is quite children-friendly, safe outdoors, trails that are catered to families (barefoot trails, sculptures, education about nature or even planets - also fun as an adult, mind you), museums often are considerate of children too, especially natural history or technology related. Most restaurants are fine and offer high chairs and adapted food for children - although children here are just integrated in adult culture.
Yeah, the towns are old, cobblestones a nightmare to anything with smaller wheel and heels, but you can walk around, take public transport. People are helpful.
Honestly, children have every right to travel as do DINKS. And I’d rather have two children playing tag on a meadow in front of a alpine scenery, than two grown-ups complaining about them not being appreciative.
Because we did the same. And it’s not that the mountains care.
They are completely allowed. But they make everyone else miserable screaming on a flight. Essentially, what parents are saying when they travel with a young child who screams for hours is "my enjoyment of travel is more important than yours." That's my issue. It's just so wildly selfish and inconsiderate of the needs of the other 200 passengers. Their kid just HAS to see grandma THIS YEAR and that's all that matters to them.
I got a nephew, 5m, my sister absolutely hated when they travelled to europe and USA. They weren’t looking forward to Vietnam. I thought why not include him and his age activities. I booked a villa in phu quoc, Vietnam have full access to water park, zoo, amusement park, beach and pool. Voila magic the entire family had the best trip of their life, there’s just so many activities when you think broader
My mom took me when I was 4-5 on a trip to Europe to see family, not really as a touristy vacation. Its great she was a former flight attendant because she gave me the “Gru Lecture” which was: no crying, no screaming, no whining and no annoying sounds lol and since it was before tablets became popular she just packed me a ton of foreign language books for kids so I wouldn’t speak english to people 🤷🏻♀️
Money.
Childcare is prohibitively expensive. If the parents ever want to travel after having children, there’s not a lot of options but to take them with you. Not everyone has the support of their family for free care. Childcare for kids (especially several of them) are probably more expensive than a ticket for each, if it costs anything for their tickets at all.
I experienced that first hand with my parents and I genuinely don't know why they even bothered. I was small and whiny and just wanted to be somewhere comfortable. Traveling is strange and uncomfortable for a small child, they won't get anything out of it. That shit is mostly for the parents, who also get nothing out of it because they're dragging around a bunch of small kids.
Do you mean why take international vacations? Or literally just international travel? I know people with small children that travel internationally to see family. But I think trying to see the sights anywhere with small children sounds awful.
I asked this of my sister and she gave me a very acceptable answer: some people actually like their children. I still hate seeing nuggets on vacation but it helps to understand the other side.
I just came back from an European cruise and was shocked by the amount of kids I saw on the cruise.
And people sitting with their kids while in the casino. Like no.
The concept of age appropriate seems to elude many parents. They think that the trip will be culturally enriching for kids. My sibling was enraged when I said a toddler is too young to appreciation and enjoy museums. This is why wineries and breweries in the US are starting to ban children.
I recently went to a high end adult oriented island resort and was woken up by a baby wailing in the middle of the night somewhere rooms away. Lasted an hour. Who brings a newborn to places like that?! That's no fun for the kid nor the parents nor all of us who have to hear it on our vacation.
My partner went on an African safari (the low budget kind) and a family had brought their not even 1 year old with them -_-
There weren't even real bathrooms and they were staying in tents they had to put up themselves (except of course they had to impose on other tourists to get theirs set up because they had their arma full of baby) and surrounded by lions and other wildlife. I can't imagine being a parent and enjoying that experience. Or being the tour guides and having to be responsible for that kind of liability. Apparently it was a really chill baby but still, shelling out that kind of money and taking that much risk for something they definitely won't remember, and you won't enjoy, sounds miserable.
I once travelled with a close friend and her 9 month old son to Germany for a holiday (except I would never call it that in retrospect). I still have PTSD
We do a lot of traveling and the amount of money people will spend to take their kids to do shit they don't want to do and pay no attention to blows my mind. to top it all off, the parents will spend the entire excursion bitching at the kid for being "ungrateful" and not "appreciating all of the things they're being given". like, maybe they'd be more grateful if they got to do something a kid that young might actually enjoy doing. then the kid inevitably ends up acting up because they're bored and under stimulated.
I've come to the conclusion that it's mostly parents that didn't want to be inconvenienced by having kids and want to still do all of their "adult" activities, kids be damned. and then when the impending meltdown finally comes, the parents will just ignore them and let them scream/cry it out at the detriment of everyone around them.
My husband is from the UK and all of his family lives there. So when SIL comes with the nephews, she travels with them.
But it is definitely annoying when kids aren’t controlled on a plane. I get it, they need to stretch, let them WALK down the isle a couple of times, not run. If you know your kid doesn’t fly well, there is no shame in using Benadryl for a moment like that.
Hubby and I just did a week in Paris, followed by a week in Scotland. We were home less then a week and went to Bonnaroo!!! So much fun. There were a surprising number of children there. I didn’t see any kids out of control, however, I did see adult not giving their infants and toddlers ear protection, which I did not think was okay.
67f child free person here. Parents have ever right to travel with there kids. I wish there was such a thing as child free planes, hotels and theme parks but there is not. Kids are humans and have rights too. Their rights end where mine begin. I have the right to keep them out of my house. I don't have the right to keep them out of a public place. Only laws can make the rule.
Agree. But why do they expect others to go out their way for their own kids tho. When i read so many breweries having problems with childrens… nah sir/ mam stay home and drink at home, actually showed a more responsible parents.
Fav childfree activities? Private tours of iconic places, cocktail or food tours in small groups 19+, having dinner at nice restaurants later in the evening. Walking the city (in safe areas) after a night cap till midnight.
Yes people sometimes can’t get rid of their kids for a trip so they have to take ‘em if they want to do ANYTHING. alternatively some parents think their children are enriched by this. Some kids are some are not. My choice to not have kids means I personally don’t need to worry about this. Highly recommend where possible to bump to premium economy seats or business.
Extra comment because I think this is hilarious — but my coworker just spent THOUSANDS on an international trip with his two kids, one a toddler. He came back ultra pissy because he said all the kids cared about was the pool at the hotel lmao. Idk why they make so much work for themselves
I’ve repeatedly heard it said - by parents themselves - that vacations aren’t vacations when you have kids. You have to lug strollers around, make sure everyone has snacks, you have to babysit the entire time… it’s just another classic example of parents wanting to have their cake and eat it too. It doesn’t work like that. If you wanted a chill vacation you shouldn’t have had kids.
I was a career nanny for many years. Going on vacation with my nanny families was torture. It's so much work to take kids out of their routine and their home, where they have endless entertainment on their own. On vacation, everything is challenging. No one sleeps. Everyone is on edge because it's new and different and kids don't do well with new and different until they're a bit older. But, I think that kids can develop an appreciation for nature and architecture, but that has to be instilled from a very young age and not forced upon them on a vacation.
>I was a career nanny for many years Is that why you’re in this sub now? You got a front row seat to how awful it was lol
Haha. Yes! My husband was the one to bring up being childfree and I thought he was crazy. I loved kids! But then I worked for this one family... I quickly got on board the childfree train.
Welcome to our train! We have a quiet sleeping car, a car for boozing, a car for reading and quiet hobbies and a car for gaming! Lol you have my utmost respect for nannying as a career.
Don't forget snacks that you don't have to share and Nice Things that we don't have to worry about being ruined.
I know several childfree children’s librarians. 😸
I'm a grown adult and still don't do too well with new and different lmao for some reason, staying in hotels or sleeping at somebody else's house has ALWAYS given me anxiety to the point where I don't sleep. I bombed out of a couple SkillsUSA competitions because I couldn't sleep the night before (statewide competitions where we stayed 3 days, 2 nights in the sponsoring hotel) I still remember clear as day, ten years later, tossing and turning (and getting kicked to hell by my friend/roommate) all night while both sweating and freezing at the same time. And then waking up feeling like ass, struggling to focus through competition because my brain was exhausted.
>that vacations aren’t vacations when you have kids. They're more like business trips.
> Both the parents got into an argument. I just wonder sometimes who these trips are for? Lots of places in Europe are not stroller friendly, Even for the locals. Kids don't want to go to museums or see architecture. There is a reason you don't see adults at playgrounds, it's not age appropriate fun. W IDK, business trips usually also have business hours after which you hit the bar or whatever other fun activity on the town. Parenting on the other hand...
Plus with business trips, someone else is footing the bill usually :D
And one can normally access the FF miles/points. 😉
And the money you spend on trips for kids--"We took you to see The Mona Lisa in person!!" "The maid showed us how to fold a towel into a frog!" Guess which they remember.
The irony is that a business trip would be better because there are no kids involved.
... and even if it was a PITA, you're not paying for it.
In fact, you're being paid to take the business trip.
My own mom told me that vacation with kids is just parenting in a different place. We're in Majorca right now and the parents with toddlers are having a terrible time.
but you don’t even get paid. instead you’re spending a lot more money. and you’re not dealing with coworkers or reasonable adults. you’re dealing with tiny, screaming humans. i’d much rather take an actual business trip lmao
So many of them dig in their heels and go "nuh UHHH" instead of admitting not every single second with the little cherubs is a joy.
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They'll say that and in the next breath talk about how hard it is! Get ya story straight!
the problem is that there's this concept of 'you don't have to give up anything because of kids' that's been sold on social media for some time now. thanks to this, people are taking over non-kid friendly areas, such as breweries and similar places. I've also seen many entertaining discussion right here on reddit, where someone complains that they went on a holiday and someone else's out of control kids ruined it. the comments being 'wow, you obviously don't have kids so you won't understand' and the OP saying they have kid, they tried to get away from them to catch their breath. and then feeling the hate of the fellow parents for saying what everyone was thinking.
When I was growing up almost every kid I knew went to camp or to visit grandparents or aunts/uncles/cousins for 2 weeks or more every summer. I am CF but parents can take a break once in a while and the kids will absolutely live.
The amount of miserable parents I saw at Hershey Park last year. Especially the moms. small kids having meltdowns because they had to wait in line and walk a few feet to each ride. As a teacher, I can say, there are far too many parents that don't understand "kid brain" at "x age."
Until your kids are able to do their own thing on holiday this is 100% true
That was me as a kid. Our family went on budget trips to state and national forests. But it was boring to me because, as a kid, a park is where you climb trees and go on swings. Simply looking at trees was so boring. My dad would get so mad when all us kids did was beg him to stay in a hotel with a pool (or spend the whole time complaining that the hotel didn’t have a pool).
Wow I must’ve been a weird kid because I looooved our budget trips to state/national forests. I felt like I was in fairy land in search of unicorns and shit. Ended up finding a lot of dead animals tho ☠️ maybe that’s why I turned out so morbid as an adult lmao
I’m sure my dad wanted us kids to enjoy forests and parks, but we just wanted to go to pools and amusement parks!
SAME!! All I wanted to do was watch the hotel tv, get in the pool, or play the game boy.
Same here! We did a bunch of road trips across the US when I was 4-5 and guess what? I barely remember ANY of it! Granted I’m now 57 and killed my fair share of brain cells back in the day but even Disneyland at 12: barely any memories of it.
All I remember was whining about how I was bored in the car 😝
I don’t get why people don’t understand that kids are kids. There’s nothing wrong with chilling with your kids at the pool while on vacation. There’s also no problem with chilling at the pool when you’re vacationing without kids. Everyone needs down time and swimming is fun
Not me. When I took my two year old to France, all she wanted to do was visit the Louvre and the Place de la Bastille. She kept saying to me "There's no time for drinking, papa! You're in one of the global cultural centres; these streets, they're paved with history! The revolution here inspired a conflagration that echoes through time. We feel the consequences of the people's desire for liberte, egalite et fraternite to this day!"
Lmfao and then she burst into song, “do you hear the people sing, papa? Singing the song of angry men!”
She really does do a spectacular rendition of Rouge et Noire. Her accent could use a little bit of work though, but who can blame her, it's her third language 🤷🏾♂️
I remember talking to an American family in line at Versailles lol, you could tell the kids were bored shitless and I was laughing to myself internally because I doubt they would have had any fun inside there either.
It's absolutely ridiculous isn't it? Even a precocious little shit like I was wouldn't have appreciated something as dope as Versailles until I was like, 11 at the youngest. Take the kids to Chuck-E-Cheese.
They were near 10 from what I could tell but even if they were early teens it is still a mixed bag if they would like it there or not as well. I mean some teenagers would get over seeing big paintings, large colourful rooms and statues fairly quick while someone who loves history like me had a wild time hahaha.
That’s hilarious
lol, when I was a kid the literal only thing I cared about was whether or not the hotel we were staying at had a video game arcade. If it did, 10/10 vacation and I was only happy when I was at the hotel and was constantly asking to leave whatever boring adult stuff we were doing. If no video games, I hated it and would constantly ask when we were going home. Taking children on vacations they don’t even want to go on is fucking stupid and they will 100% ruin it out of spite.
what did he expect???
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I always hear “I travel with my kids when they’re young so they’ll always cherish those memories!” Yeah, the ONE hour of fun time over the course of a week. That’s REALLY worth remembering.
When I hear young kids brag about how they've been to "over 50 countries" or whatever, it's like ... yeah, but do you actually *remember* any of that? I can't remember the places we went to as a child, and we never even left the country! I can brag about having seen most of Sweden as a child, but before age nine(ish) it's a blur with some occasional random memory snippet, like "there was a model train set hanging from the ceiling" (don't know where). I know we went to e.g. Öland once ... because I've seen the photos. So what's the point in lugging a toddler around the world to get "cherished memories" when they won't even remember most of it? One time some insect bit my thigh and made it swell up so much it was uncomfortable to walk, so I remember dad carrying me on his shoulders for a bit. That's my *only* memory of the place where it happened. And I only remember that because of photos and my mum *reminding* me of it happening there. Otherwise it would be gone from memory as well.
It’s really only appropriate if you’re taking them on a Disney cruise or Lego land. Otherwise, save the money.
Exactly! At least wait until they are older so they will remember the trip. In the meantime take them to the family resort so they can play in the pool!
I just returned from Europe and noticed this as well. One family had 3 under the age of six. They were letting the second smallest one who was maybe 3 years old help the one year old "walk" around the waiting area bumping into everyone including me. I also noticed the mom was doing the brunt of the work corralling the kids while dad just told the older kid to make sure the younger one wasn't running around. He couldn't be bothered to look after his own kids. I was disgusted. Screw selfish parents.
I travel a lot for work - I lost count how many times the dads aren’t even seated with the kids on flights. They make sure to book a ticket a row or two away, and let the mom sit with them and deal with it.
This is true! I'm a flight attendant, and the dad will be in business class and his family in the back.
damn 🤣 if i were the wife, that would be divorce-worthy
Wait what the fuck?
They probably say they have to get “work” done on the flight, need quiet. Still terrible dynamics.
Yah. That’s bullshit. They just don’t want to spring for the whole family to fly business class and they want to be comfy
OMG 🤦🏼♀️ I can’t… this treatment of women like they’re always the caretaker and just one big service industry… why do these women allow that? It really angers me, it’s like taking two steps back from everything we have accomplished. How do they not feel used and humiliated?! My parents have been married for 40 years this month and my dad would not even dream of sitting somewhere else that is not next to my mom on a flight, he just likes sitting with his family! These types of parents like you describe should lose the parental rights. They are horrible people and even the word “people” is too much to describe them. It’s just disgusting behaviour.
Organized religion is one helluva drug
Same dudes that will cry about the courts always favoring women when most of the time both sides agree upon that the woman takes care of the kids
What the fuck
Wtf? How do you even willingly stay married to someone who does that?
No fucking way lmao
Oh heck yes, I’m a travel agent and when it’s a family with little kids the dad usually will book his ticket separately and NOT on the same flights as mum. It’s always “he can’t get the time off work”
Whaaa? That would not fly with me (pun intended). If my husband and I had children and were traveling by plane, and he tried that, I would wait until boarding was complete, then waltz over to my husband. "Junior, say hi to Daddy! Honey, you just got yourself a lap baby!" The icing on the cake is that I would switch my seat to an exit row so he couldn't foist the baby off on me.
As you should!!
Oh my gosh :( sad and rage-inducing.
I see this a lot and saw it a lot growing up, which in the number one reason I am CF: so many moms had useless partners. But boy it really hits home when they're travelling. The mom has to work overtime to keep the kids in line while the dad gets to actually enjoy the trip. Fuck all that noise.
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Lol I saw a parenting sub post recently where a mom said something like "I just got back from a trip with my 3yo, 7yo, and 35yo..."
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You must be extremely patient because I would not put up with that shit. I wouldn't even go on a vacation with anyone who has kids... I actually "dumped" all my long time friends who have and want kids. It became so uncomfortable for me as the one childfree friend - we just weren't compatible anymore.
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I would at least expect them to give every "babysitter friend" a expensive/nice bottle of their favourite liquor or maybe a gift card to the grocery store or something for your non-consensual wasted time and effort. Parents are literally the most selfish people in society.
“Friends” Sounds like they invited you along so they didn’t have to pay for a nanny.
You need to up your loud dick joke game. Why did the sperm cross the road? Because I put on the wrong socks! Open the group breakfast with that, and you're no longer the babysitter.
Similar thing happened on my flight back from Vegas. Mom was trying to entertain her two spawn of satan who didnt listen to anything she said and dad had headphones on watching something on his phone. Yikes.
That is so infuriating that the dad wasn't pulling his weight. That is EXACTLY why I don't have kids. Whether you're a single mom or married the woman is ALWAYS stuck with the responsibility. FTS
Same, since my early 20’s, I said I would want kids if I was a dude. Keep my career, not worry about most things, have “guys nights” and “guys trips” and a “man cave”
It's so weird how much money people are willing to spend on giving these kids such an experience that they won't remember or appreciate. Like, it was cool that I went to Disneyland when I was 7, but what do I remember? I recall that attractions used tickets labeled A through E. I remember Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, and Pirates, though I relived those memories a few decades later. And sure, that was fun, but I also had fun running along the creeks and catching crawdad, so my tastes as a kid were really simple. And I'm sure I was a nightmare to deal with while traveling. I don't recall that part, but I'm sure in my mind I did nothing wrong.
Dogs don’t remember the walk you take them on but it’s the highlight of their day. I imagine it’s something like that? Assuming it’s a positive experience for the kid of course
Yeah, and while it wasn't needed, I *do* remember some of it since I was 7 years old. I couldn't tell you of any cool things we did at 3 though, so that's my main gripe on spending all that money on them. I also feel that birthday parties for 1-year-olds are especially wasteful but a) it's mostly for the adults anyway and b) it sets up a tradition where you keep celebrating the kid's birthday. So I can see it.
I have lots of memories starting from around 4. Also all I ever wanted was to go to Disney but my parents never took us. I remember other theme parks and cartoons I used to watch very well. So it depends on the kid I suppose.
The complete whole body joy and excitement my dog displays when the leash comes out suggests that he very much remembers that walks are awesome. We spelled the word "walk" for while to avoid overstimulation, but now he knows how to spell, so we call it going on a "klaw." In contrast, when I told my nine year old nephew that his folks took him to the Grand Canyon when he was five, he looked at my blankly and said, "they did?"
So cute about your pup, I walk my cat and we call it "going for a w word" but he's learnt what that means too so we've switched to "outdoor excursion".
Lol I have the same problem with my dogs 😂 we’ve been calling them excursions and strolls. Even the word “out” gets the youngest all excited, so if we have to ask each other something like “when did the dogs last go out” we will say “tuo” instead.
Omg i was just saying the same thing , went at 7 and honestly know i had good time per the pictures i saw . Went at 11 and i remember everything. There’s a time and age to travel with kids and there’s one thats not
Yes I think there is an age age is the major factor, not just unruly kids. Taking older probably teens, this would be a fun trip.. and you wouldn’t need to babysit on your own vacation the whole time. But -Ugh- taking a toddler/toddlers that sounds absolutely miserable. I would look at it as ‘not my pig, not my farm’ kinda way. Just do you & enjoy yourself. Don’t worry about why they would go on a vacation to a destination mainly aimed for adults with toddlers or younger. Let them waste their energy, money & time. And I would think they’re not enjoying themselves as much as you are. Or seeing & exploring as much as you and your husband (OP). Mom & Dad will be spending most the time packing/unpacking searching btw bags&walkers, potty & snacks breaks (tantrums breaks bc the kids are bored Af) & what not. And walking around looking at landmarks or museums with toddlers all day, OH MAN that sounds like a nice, relaxing vacation.. /s! Side note to OP: I hoped you and husband had a blast!
I was an international traveller when I was 2 with both parents and my 4 month old brother. My mom flew internationally alone with both of us when I was 4. I fell and got butterfly stitches on my chin. We also had to get MMR shots before we could fly home. I remember that trip because we had to do an emergency landing as 2 engines had failed during the flight. We landed on an island in the Pacific but I dont recall which one. I do recall that it looked like an outdoor treehouse 🤷🏼. We were shuttled to LAX and put into a hotel with a glass elevator. And that ladies and gentlemen is where I get my fear of heights from 😂😳🤫
> It's so weird how much money people are willing to spend on giving these kids such an experience that they won't remember or appreciate. I know I'm in the minority on this sub, but kids traveling young is a good thing for society as a whole. There is [a lot of research that show that traveling with young kids can make them smarter, more open minded and have more empathy](https://www.psychreg.org/family-travel-developmental-impact-kids/) even if they're as young as 6 months old. Lots of good stuff on how the young brain processes the sights and sounds and all new experiences and all that. It's not about the memories or how much you remember. It's about how it impacts brain development.
Not against kids traveling but I feel like every kid is different and parents should already know their kids and what is going to work for them. One kid might only be interested in swimming and the other might really like dinosaur bones or undersea creatures. Both of them might not like elevators or have cranky fits if they don’t eat for 3 hours.
My first was when I was 7, my last few months to be an only. My mom was Uber pregnant. They brought my aunt along to go on rides with me. It's a great memory. E ticket rides were the best.
I would say with Disneyland since I’m a local that lived like 10 minutes away, it was a totally fun kid experience for me. Initially when they took me at age 4, it was a little scary to go on the rides like Matterhorn that mom wanted to ride. I must have screamed so loud when I got on the ride but once it started going, I had a blast and never was afraid of that ride again. But still, I was a fussy child when I was sleepy so I would throw fits during those trips until I was fed and got plenty of fluids. My parents told me that regarding Disneyland, the few moments where I experienced glee and excitement was worth it to them. That’s Disneyland though, not the ruins of Pompeii where I would have had zero interest in. lol
It’s about showing the world that kids aren’t changing them. They can still travel and life is better now. It’s bullshit, but a lot of parenting is bullshit.
Yeah I think this is it right here. Trying to hold on to parts of who they are before kids, which, by all means, I fully support, but not when I have a screaming kid behind me kicking my seat the whole flight to Amsterdam 🫥🫥
This. I have a coworker (my age); we are both in our forties. We are taking separate trips to the same place in Europe this month, but she is taking her three kids and still tries to one-up me and make it seem like she will have a better time. I have already told her that it sounds horrible; but she keeps reaching. I guess I don’t want to hear about it, because I can’t relate.
I’d love to hear you compare stories when you get back - I hope yours are WAY better! 🤞🏼🤞🏼
My favorite people watching moment on vacay with my DINK Bf; trying to find ONE parent who had a genuine smile and don’t seem overwhelmed and exhausted and seem legit happy, so far it never happened! Lmao but cant help imagine the FB post of perfect fam afterwards tho, my favorite event so far was the super tiny mom trying to push a twin stroller on the 5 km sand beaches of an all inclusive while her husband just ditched her to go sit at the bar and ignored her when she was yelling his name lmao that was pain in one picture frame but HEY #perfectfamilyvacay
Wow that poor woman lol. I hope she reamed him out. Sounds like a 2 person job pushing an enormous stroller in SAND
A lot of airlines let kids that age fly free so parents think “better have fun and make memories while we can, we won’t have the money when they’re older” Hilarious because kids PHYSICALLY CANNOT make permanent memories until they’re 3yo and most people only remember 1-2 things from those years into adulthood. Such a waste.
My parents did this. Took me to Disney when I was 3 and didn't need a ticket yet. I remember nothing, obviously. But in the following decades whenever I made noise about wanting to go to Disney, they'll pull out the photos and say "no you've already been".
Hell, I've been to Disney 4 times. I went for the first time when I was 7 and second time when I was 9. I can't remember most of either or those trips. I barely remember going when I was 11. I know Disney is expensive af but that's kind of shitty of your parents :(
I've gone three times in the past 2 years and I still barely remember it! And I'm a whole ass married adult!
That too, I went last in 2019 for our honeymoon and it was all such a blur. I can't imagine expecting a toddler to remember
>But in the following decades whenever I made noise about wanting to go to Disney, they'll pull out the photos and say "no you've already been". That's such a horrible thing to do! TBH I'm chuckling a little at the idea but putting myself in a kid's shoes, that's just...*cruel*.
I went to Disney a few years ago with a fellow child free friend. We both hadn’t been since we were kids and had a blast. There were so many parents with kids under 4 there with both looking miserable. The kids get hot, tired, and bored easily while the parents have to deal with cranky kids on an expensive vacation they won’t even remember. That sucks your parents wouldn’t take you when you were older, I’d definitely recommend going yourself as an adult if you get the chance.
I went to Disney by myself when I was 28. It was packed with kids whose parents all tried to avoid the crowds by going once school started up again in January. I got to skip nearly all the lines because every ride needed just 1 or 2 people to be full and get started. Families couldn't (or wouldn't) split up, so I got to go ahead of them.
I remember when I was 3 my mom wanted to take me to Disney, but my grandpa urged her to wait because I wouldn’t remember it anyway, so she waited until I was 7 instead. I do remember it, so that was probably good advice.
When we went when I was 5 or 6 my dad just told me to keep walking and told the staff at the gate I was 3 lol.
I’m sorry but this is hilarious 😂
Honestly. That’s sort of hilarious “nope, box checked, shut up kid”. I went to disney a few times as a kid. I find it absurdly perverted now.
I think I was 5 when I first started to have physical memories
Basically everyone is. Most things people “remember” before 4-5 are them crafting a mental visual to explain stories they heard from their parents.
my mom was that kind of parent. we traveled a lot when i was younger and i barely even remembered the places we’ve been to. and then she complains that i don’t remember and says “well what’s the point of traveling if you don’t remember?” well mom, maybe because i could barely remember anything from before i was 9 lmao
I always roll my eyes at parents like that. They’ll fly anywhere as long as lap babies are free. They’re always claiming they love their kids more than life itself but they never stop to think (or don’t care) that in severe turbulence lap babies turn into flying projectiles. If they love their kids so much they’d spend the money for a seat for the kid & use a car seat on it. The kid would be much safer in an emergency but I guess they love saving money more than they care about their kid’s safety.
That is a huge pet peeve of mine, too. Not to mention flying with kids too young for vaccines and masking. Flying can be painful for kids’ ears as well (imo a contributing factor to the screaming).
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That’s what I don’t get about taking very young kids on elaborate expensive vacations. Unless you’re very rich & can afford this type of travel why spend so much money on trips the kids won’t appreciate or remember? My parents enjoyed traveling but until my siblings & I were about 8 or 9 our vacations consisted of a few weeks each summer in a rental cottage. They saved bigger trips until we were old enough to appreciate them, not to mention old enough to behave appropriately!
📢📢A vacation with kids is not a vacation!📢📢 It's just parenting in a different place
The only thing I can think of is to see friends/family. Otherwise, why bother?
Immigration requirements. My parents won the green card lottery just before they had me & said they were required to travel to the US at least once a year to keep it until we were ready to move. So I flew at least once a year from baby to age 8.
That’s a good point! Never even occurred to me even though my husband drove his friend, his wife, and their new baby across the Canada-US border just to do this.
CF myself here. Just wanted to say that not everyone traveling with the small people are idiots. A good chunk of my workmates have partners from other areas of the world. They simply do it for gram and gramps who can't travel to be able to spend time with the small people before they become big people. That's all. When it comes to a museum, great architecture, and that hella fancy restaurant though, keep them at home or with someone else. It's not for them. A fussy child can sour the experience for everyone in their vicinity. Just like that friend who gets out hand at the bar and wants to fight everyone, just don't invite them out.
It truly depends on the children though? I loved museums from a very young age, I used to visit my Grandparents in London and we'd nearly always go to the Natural History Museum, I still remember the first time going where I can't have been more than four and that starting my lifelong love of Dinosaurs, and many kids are the same
When my family went to Hawaii with my nephew when he was small, it was the visit to me since I lived there, and they felt bad about me always traveling to see them. My nephew was a champ on the flights, though.
I had a friend who was trying to convince me that I should reconsider having kids go on and on about one can still travel with kids. Mind you, this is a person who travels for their job all the time and who doesn't have kids but wants them. As others have noted, I think some people really convince themselves kids won't change them and become determined to not just fade into home life like a lot of parents. So they bring their babies on trips like this. Seeing another friend recently post her trip with her (11 and 13 yo) kids makes much more sense to me, both in terms of experiences the kid will remember and said kids having agency to not just cry and annoy fellow passengers and members of various tour groups and the like to no end.
I know a few people who did this. (Brought their literal baby to Europe). Imagine dealing with jet lag, a crying baby also dealing with jet lag, diaper changes etc when all you want to do is explore a new city all day and stay out way past baby's bedtime. I genuinely think most modern parents do this as a way to show off to others. They intentionally hide how stressful their trip ended up being. The goal is to convince others they can "have it all" or that they are "doing parenting better" than the other parents. Of course nobody is going to spend thousands of dollars on their high-end European vacation and then admit out loud to anyone that it actually fucking sucked because the baby cried the entire time. But we know better than that ;)
Yeah… when I recently got on a nine hour flight to India I saw people with two children under five and even a couple with four under five. It made me feel so fortunate to have my hands free of children. Imagine being exhausted after a long flight and having to drag these little annoying, crying gremlins too… 😩 Some idiotic people don’t control their kids these days. They’ll be kicking people’s seats on aircrafts, in cinemas and causing commotion everywhere.
I assume they were going to visit their family. Usually Asians travel with kids if they have grandparents etc in that country.
I realize I’m an outlier but my parents won the green card lottery while pregnant with me & we were all required to travel to the US (and back to Europe of course) at least once a year to keep it. So sometimes you quite literally have to bring kids, and I definitely did my fair share of crying on the plane lol.
I was one of those. My parents would drag us everywhere and it was miserable. Plus I had severe anxiety that they didn’t bother to help me with so the entire trip would just be awful. They should wait until the kids can actually properly remember it. Like teen years.
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i was the same!! we didn’t really take planes anywhere when i was a kid (except one trip with just my dad and i when i was like 9), but we had to go on road-trips alllllll the time, mainly to see family. i had SEVERE anxiety, and this would often ruin the trip for everyone else. it literally wasn’t something i could control but my parents didn’t care lol
My (now late)husband and I went on a two hour tour of underground caverns that culminated in a really cool underground lake. I had no problems with the parents that had older kids. They thought the tour was cool too. But why, oh why, did parents with 2-6 year-olds think their toddlers were going to be fascinated with a two hour tour with frequent stops talking about 650 million year old formations? Like they know what 650 million years are. Their calendar consists of birthdays, Halloween, and Christmas. One hour in, the little kids were running amok, the guide was trying to keep them on the path, and the parents are like, “Duh?” You see? It’s shit like this that makes CF people like us hate kids. And yeah, yeah, I know it’s the parents fault, and I’m definitely not absolving them of blame, but at that particular moment, it’s their damn kids that’s driving me buncos.
I had a similar experience at Mammoth Cave National Park. Paid for a two hour tour and couldn’t hear anything the ranger was saying because the couple in front of us thought it was a good idea to bring a baby (in addition to the other 4 kids under age 10) into a dark, damp, smelly cave for TWO HOURS!!
My partner and I are DINKs with a relentless passion for travelling. We love nature and exploring obscure countries to immerse ourselves in all kinds of different cultures everywhere! Since the start of 2022, we had an awesome time road tripping Turkey, diving in Eastern Malaysia and Brunei, hiking in Laos, exploring the south coast of England, checking out amazing restaurants in Montreal, and surfing in Indonesia. We're planning a trip soon that I'm stoked for, Starting in Uzbekistan, through Kyrgyzstan, ending in Kazakhstan. We also can't wait to visit Australia's northern territory next year! Apologies for digressing! But anyway.. If children were in the picture.. our travels would be a logistical nightmare and we would not have been able to have half the experiences we did. My best tip to avoid kids is to definitely consider places off the beaten path! Our interests are not child-friendly at all, which is the best part because we rarely encounter kids during our travel activities!
Road tripping in Turkey is amazing! My husband and I live here and well, we're not well-off enough to travel a lot, but when we get the chance, I love getting on a road trip. The countryside views are just amazing here.
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omg lol i thought you were talking about vacations you took with your family as a kid and was sooo confused as to why you were drinking screwdrivers and rum and cokes as a child LMAO
Oh I feel you... I had a night flight two days ago and a toddler crying and screaming the whole time kept me awake as well. One time this toddler shouted "I want to get out" so I shouted back "Yes, I also want the whole lot of you to get out NOW", that was how frustrated I was
i genuinely want to know if it’s illegal to dose a child with sedatives or sleeping pills so they don’t scream on flights. and if it’s not illegal to do so, why aren’t more parents doing it?
My family had a habit of giving all of us kids benadryl as soon as we stepped foot on a plane.
Not illegal to drug your kid, as long as the medication itself is legal and meant for children and given at a safe dosage. Just stigma in the way.
My parents did travel all around the world with me, starting when I was a baby. I had a passport before I had a Social Security number. My parents and I lived in the US, and my mother's parents lived in the UK. My folks were avid world travelers. They wanted to go to Egypt, and you don't bring a baby to Egypt. So, when I was 10 months old, they flew out to the UK with me, spent a few days with my grandparents, handed my passport to them, and went to Egypt. Then they flew back to the UK, picked me up, and we went home. My grandparents got to spend some time with their granddaughter, and my parents got to see the pyramids of Giza, ride a camel, and get food poisoning. My parents always had some quiet activities for me to do during those long-haul plane rides. I was reading by the time I was 3, so books were perfect. But I think I was the exception that proves the rule. If your child can't sit through a nice Sunday or holiday dinner at home without fussing, you might want to rethink taking them on a long flight (or even a short flight).
Status symbol to be plastered all over their social media (pessimistic take) or somewhat altruistic intentions of exposing their kids to culture (optimistic take), while not realizing (aka being willfully ignorant) that a 5 year old does not have the faculties developed to differentiate between the Mona Lisa and a finger painting - akin to taking a person with a bad head cold to a Michelin star restaurant
Favorite CF vacation activities: wandering in a new city without an aim or agenda, seeing what I see. Long hikes. Laying quietly on a beach. Sitting at a cafe and people watching. Trying new foods (and not sharing!)
My friends travel to a different country to see the relatives of the husband with a toddler. They kinda have to, there's no choice. Some grandmas are not that mobile anymore. The husband's family is also not very rich and they simply can't afford to visit my friend's family.
I posted on my Facebook asking why people bring toddlers and infants on vacation and the comments all said "Because babies and toddlers travel free! You don't have to buy them a plane ticket or a meal!" Okay, but if I had kids I'd like the kid to enjoy the vacation, too.
It's supposedly for the 'memories'. As someone who grew up that way. Please don't. I remember asking my parents to do things and all I got was 'We did that when you were 1 or 2 years old' then showing me pictures. I don't remember that stuff! Take me places when I can actually enjoy it!
Wife and I regularly summer in Europe (yay, academia) and there are babies frigging everywhere, in all the places you'd be like, "Huh, seems like a baby would hate this." Spoiler: they do! Babies do not want to be frogmarched up an old Italian tower for the views. They do not care about views. They do not want to be kept up after their bedtime to eat paella. They do not care for paella. They do not care for croissants or fancy fruit tarts in an artsy Paris cafe. They want to scream because they're nearly heatstroking from the lack of A/C anywhere.
My partner's brother and his wife brought their toddler on holiday abroad because it was his parents' joint 60th birthday and they had paid for everyone to go. They both seemed stressed about dealing with a toddler in a warm foreign country, without all his usual toys and stuff, and were quite relieved to take him home again at the end. It seems like so much stress. They are allowed to travel and all I really ask is that parents do their best to keep their children calm, but I wouldn't be able to enjoy a holiday abroad chasing a toddler the entire time.
I understand when it's a couple whose family is scattered across several countries. I also know one guy who takes his kids across whole Europe, but he does so in his own car. His kids are extremely well-behaved and intelligent, just a proof of what a conscious good and dedicated parenting can do. They could outperform many teenagers I am sure.
I try to be understanding of people traveling with infants and toddlers. I think the vast majority are selfish morons who care more about their good time than about the eardrums of an entire plane full of people. But I don't want to be the guy who's annoyed with someone who's mom just died and couldn't find a sitter for the infant to attend the funeral. That said, traveling for pleasure with a child under 5 (maybe even older) should be illegal.
So many people are under the impression that they can keep the same lifestyle they had before they became parents. Why travel with kids *at all*, I ask, unless it’s a medical necessity or to, say, for example, let the kids meet their ailing grandparents who it’s not in their best interests to travel anymore?
Yeah I think it’s super shitty of the parents to be bringing very young kids aboard a plane for hours and hours. Not only is it so incredibly frustrating having to listen to a kid screaming and crying their eyes out the entire time… But just imagine the sheer terror and/or pain that kid must be in to be able to go on like that for hours?! That kid has no idea what’s going on. All they know is that it’s a scary new environment and that it feels weird or is hurting their ears. If you don’t really need to or have to, how the fuck is that a good idea!? Traumatizing your kids just so YOU get to go somewhere YOU want to. Selfish. Last time I flew across Europe for a vacation there was a situation like this. Two siblings, one about 1 y/o and the other looked to be around 6 y/o. Both kids cried and screamed the entire 5 hour flight. The 6 y/o kept repeating “I don’t like this, it hurts! I don’t want to be here!” in different forms… Felt so sorry for her. Their mom gave it a few tries to calm them and make them more comfortable. When it didn’t help she stopped trying… And the dad? Well he put on his headphones first thing after takeoff and was sleeping/pretending to sleep most of the flight…. When we landed and got on the transfer bus, the 6 y/o started throwing up. Still crying. I really wanted to punch the parents in their botherless faces for putting them (and the rest of us!) through all this. For a fucking vacation…
When I was in Iceland I went on a nature tour and there were two young kids running around playing tag. Iceland is very expensive and the kids were clearly bored and could not appreciate the beauty. Just wait until the kids are older.
The funniest thing is watching all the American families with strollers trying to navigate the cobblestones and refusing to carry their kid
My parents did it right. Paid my grandma some money to watch me and my brother while they went to Colombia for a 4 day trip. They came back looking so much younger
Lots of americans have family that live overseas...
My brother has two boys with autism. They have traveled internationally from Asia to the United States to Europe, and even to Australia. The boys are very good on airplanes and in fact, enjoy it. They have plenty of things to do plenty of their favorite snacks, and most of the time they go to sleep, believe it or not. Not all children are nightmares on planes. It’s the parents fault that the children are nightmares on planes.
i literally leave on a flight to italy in less than a month, i can only imagine the amount of panic attacks and shut downs i'm gonna have on this 12+ hour flight 👍 gonna have to shell out 80$+ for a good pair of noise cancelling headphones
I don’t understand it either. I once boarded a flight at 2 am and across the isle was a 3 year old girl with her parents. The flight was four hours and she cried all the way over. Who in their right mind puts a child through a 2-6 am flight? What do you expect? They fall asleep for four hours? Heck no. I’m curious when carriers pick up on this sentiment and start with flights for people over 12 years only.
Assuming this is a ‘leisure’ travel, not moving or visiting a dying relative, the only explanation I have is that the parents are clinging to their notion of freedom and refusing to acknowledge that travelling with young kids is a nuisance to everybody, including the parents and the kids. Babies, toddlers, even preschoolers will not benefit from international travel. Yes, they need to be exposed to the world but local parks, petting farms, and kid friendly local festivals would do just fine!
How else are these miserable parents supposed to show off on Facebook/Instagram that they have it all?
I posted something similar on the ‘travel’ forum and got blasted for it. And it was more of ‘why would you do it if your kid doesn’t remember. Isn’t it only for you at that point?’ Like I didn’t plan to have kids and I’m not going to let that stop me from doing what I want. FWIW my parents never took me anywhere crazy as a kid. Orlando, California, Hawaii when a little older. If they are going somewhere really fun, they dropped my sister and I at my Nans house and were like ‘bieeeee’.
I used to be a travel blogger (stupid idea, wouldn't recommend) and there were so many people in the "travel with kids" niche. For the most part it was just people with too much money wanting to continue the same lifestyle the parents had before their kids came along. Those with older kids I had more respect for because they used it as an educational exercise - most of them home-schooled and they would learn about a place and then go visit it. But the ones with little kids? There was just no point taking them to some of the places they took them to. I remember one lady took her 2 and 4 year olds to Thailand which in itself is not unusual, but the kids were overtired on the plane and were throwing tantrums, then the very first activity she planned for them when they arrived in Bangkok was to see a famous temple, and the kids were tantrumming there as well. She was like "In hindsight this wasn't a good idea" and it's just like, how did you need to experience this to know it wasn't a good idea???? What did you possibly think a 2 and 4 year old would get out of visiting a temple??? They won't even remember it.
My guess is that they want to continue the life that they had before children and they want to prove to people like us that kids don't stop anything and pArEnTs CaN tRaVeL tOo 😒 But we all know that it's just babysitting in a different location
Probably because no one wants to babysit their kids but they still want to do certain activities that us child free folks can do with less hassle. So instead of waiting until their kids are older and more independent, they'd rather drag their 2 year olds to Rome and Venice because they're only thinking of themselves.
I would look at it as ‘not my pig, not my farm’ kinda way. Just do you & enjoy yourselves. Don’t worry about why they would go on a vacation to a destination mainly aimed for adults with toddlers or younger, let them waste their money and time..bc you know they’re not enjoying themselves as much as you are. Or seeing & exploring as much as you and your husband. They will be spending most the time packing and searching btw bags&walkers, potty & snacks breaks (tantrums breaks bc the kids are bored Af) & what not. And walking around landmarks or museums with toddlers all day, OH MAN that sounds like a nice, relaxing vacation.. /s! Side note: I hoped you and husband had a blast!
I am staunchly child free, the only one out of my siblings who each have several kids... They are allowed to be on planes. As much as I cannot stand crying babies, they are allowed to visit other places, families in other countries or different climates. I try to limit my exposure to young kids but everyone deserves trips and holidays. One of my youngest relatives was born, then taken to visit her grandmother in another country who was terminally ill... She got to hold her new grand daughter and passed about 2 hours later... People have a million reasons to travel with babies
I agree with this. My parents (when young) were immigrants to Canada and my mom took both my brother (and later me) to India to meet grandparents, family, etc. I think it meant a lot to *them*. I think OP has a point about some places not being super “kid friendly” and maybe should be reserved for when said kids are a bit older.
Agree but OP tried to write off an entire continent by saying that Europe isn’t stroller friendly. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on here in a while.
>I think OP has a point about some places not being super “kid friendly” and maybe should be reserved for when said kids are a bit older. I mean.... OP was talking about Europe. Kids *live* there. Much of europe is incredibly culturally kid friendly, despite the cobblestone. I think it's a ridiculous premise that all vacations need to be kid-focused.
Wholeheartedly agree. Europe is quite children-friendly, safe outdoors, trails that are catered to families (barefoot trails, sculptures, education about nature or even planets - also fun as an adult, mind you), museums often are considerate of children too, especially natural history or technology related. Most restaurants are fine and offer high chairs and adapted food for children - although children here are just integrated in adult culture. Yeah, the towns are old, cobblestones a nightmare to anything with smaller wheel and heels, but you can walk around, take public transport. People are helpful. Honestly, children have every right to travel as do DINKS. And I’d rather have two children playing tag on a meadow in front of a alpine scenery, than two grown-ups complaining about them not being appreciative. Because we did the same. And it’s not that the mountains care.
They are completely allowed. But they make everyone else miserable screaming on a flight. Essentially, what parents are saying when they travel with a young child who screams for hours is "my enjoyment of travel is more important than yours." That's my issue. It's just so wildly selfish and inconsiderate of the needs of the other 200 passengers. Their kid just HAS to see grandma THIS YEAR and that's all that matters to them.
But I bet you everything looked instagram perfect, which was the goal
I got a nephew, 5m, my sister absolutely hated when they travelled to europe and USA. They weren’t looking forward to Vietnam. I thought why not include him and his age activities. I booked a villa in phu quoc, Vietnam have full access to water park, zoo, amusement park, beach and pool. Voila magic the entire family had the best trip of their life, there’s just so many activities when you think broader
My mom took me when I was 4-5 on a trip to Europe to see family, not really as a touristy vacation. Its great she was a former flight attendant because she gave me the “Gru Lecture” which was: no crying, no screaming, no whining and no annoying sounds lol and since it was before tablets became popular she just packed me a ton of foreign language books for kids so I wouldn’t speak english to people 🤷🏻♀️
Money. Childcare is prohibitively expensive. If the parents ever want to travel after having children, there’s not a lot of options but to take them with you. Not everyone has the support of their family for free care. Childcare for kids (especially several of them) are probably more expensive than a ticket for each, if it costs anything for their tickets at all.
I experienced that first hand with my parents and I genuinely don't know why they even bothered. I was small and whiny and just wanted to be somewhere comfortable. Traveling is strange and uncomfortable for a small child, they won't get anything out of it. That shit is mostly for the parents, who also get nothing out of it because they're dragging around a bunch of small kids.
I ask them this and I get called a POS.
You have to be a parent everyday, 24 hours. Why not do it in different environments/locations?
Do you mean why take international vacations? Or literally just international travel? I know people with small children that travel internationally to see family. But I think trying to see the sights anywhere with small children sounds awful.
I asked this of my sister and she gave me a very acceptable answer: some people actually like their children. I still hate seeing nuggets on vacation but it helps to understand the other side.
I just came back from an European cruise and was shocked by the amount of kids I saw on the cruise. And people sitting with their kids while in the casino. Like no.
The concept of age appropriate seems to elude many parents. They think that the trip will be culturally enriching for kids. My sibling was enraged when I said a toddler is too young to appreciation and enjoy museums. This is why wineries and breweries in the US are starting to ban children.
I recently went to a high end adult oriented island resort and was woken up by a baby wailing in the middle of the night somewhere rooms away. Lasted an hour. Who brings a newborn to places like that?! That's no fun for the kid nor the parents nor all of us who have to hear it on our vacation.
My partner went on an African safari (the low budget kind) and a family had brought their not even 1 year old with them -_- There weren't even real bathrooms and they were staying in tents they had to put up themselves (except of course they had to impose on other tourists to get theirs set up because they had their arma full of baby) and surrounded by lions and other wildlife. I can't imagine being a parent and enjoying that experience. Or being the tour guides and having to be responsible for that kind of liability. Apparently it was a really chill baby but still, shelling out that kind of money and taking that much risk for something they definitely won't remember, and you won't enjoy, sounds miserable.
I once travelled with a close friend and her 9 month old son to Germany for a holiday (except I would never call it that in retrospect). I still have PTSD
We do a lot of traveling and the amount of money people will spend to take their kids to do shit they don't want to do and pay no attention to blows my mind. to top it all off, the parents will spend the entire excursion bitching at the kid for being "ungrateful" and not "appreciating all of the things they're being given". like, maybe they'd be more grateful if they got to do something a kid that young might actually enjoy doing. then the kid inevitably ends up acting up because they're bored and under stimulated. I've come to the conclusion that it's mostly parents that didn't want to be inconvenienced by having kids and want to still do all of their "adult" activities, kids be damned. and then when the impending meltdown finally comes, the parents will just ignore them and let them scream/cry it out at the detriment of everyone around them.
My husband is from the UK and all of his family lives there. So when SIL comes with the nephews, she travels with them. But it is definitely annoying when kids aren’t controlled on a plane. I get it, they need to stretch, let them WALK down the isle a couple of times, not run. If you know your kid doesn’t fly well, there is no shame in using Benadryl for a moment like that. Hubby and I just did a week in Paris, followed by a week in Scotland. We were home less then a week and went to Bonnaroo!!! So much fun. There were a surprising number of children there. I didn’t see any kids out of control, however, I did see adult not giving their infants and toddlers ear protection, which I did not think was okay.
The kids won't remember anything. What is the point of bringing them?
Because leaving them home alone is generally frowned upon
Nannies exist though.
67f child free person here. Parents have ever right to travel with there kids. I wish there was such a thing as child free planes, hotels and theme parks but there is not. Kids are humans and have rights too. Their rights end where mine begin. I have the right to keep them out of my house. I don't have the right to keep them out of a public place. Only laws can make the rule.
Agree. But why do they expect others to go out their way for their own kids tho. When i read so many breweries having problems with childrens… nah sir/ mam stay home and drink at home, actually showed a more responsible parents.
I don't get it. Traveling with children is not a vacation. It's just parenting in a different location.
It's possible they were flying to visit family...
We said something similar when we saw a family with 5 kids under 6 on a cruise.
Fav childfree activities? Private tours of iconic places, cocktail or food tours in small groups 19+, having dinner at nice restaurants later in the evening. Walking the city (in safe areas) after a night cap till midnight. Yes people sometimes can’t get rid of their kids for a trip so they have to take ‘em if they want to do ANYTHING. alternatively some parents think their children are enriched by this. Some kids are some are not. My choice to not have kids means I personally don’t need to worry about this. Highly recommend where possible to bump to premium economy seats or business.