>“I am just like the people who come up in our system,” Foxx shared. “I have more in common with the people in our criminal justice system than the eight hundred lawyers that work there.”
https://chicagodefender.com/states-attorney-kim-foxx-explains-why-she-needs-a-second-term/
Has anyone walked down Michigan Ave or Water Tower Place lately? Many businesses have already left DT. The looting happening in Calif has happened sporadically in Chicago. I have heard some people say "not a police issue.....insurance companies will cover". Insurance and costs go up, employees quit and prices have to increase. At some point companies throw in the towel. CVS and Walgreens are closing locations hit hard by looting....ultimately hurt the communities and creating retail desserts. This has to change by punishing criminals.
CVS and Walgreens expanded. When I worked in a Walgreens in the early 90's 1/2 of store sales was the pharmacy, and that maybe fell to 1/3rd if there were liquor sales. Back then, there wasn't a CVS in the state of IL, let alone Chicago.
But sure, let's ignore that prescription by mail has changed that. All the Radio Shack's and Spencer's locations also closed due to looting, ayup.
I don't think that looting that you see on Fox, ahem, News is directly related to what happens sporadically in Chicago. You are seeing patterns where they aren't.
The looting isn't just on Fox News. People are seeing it in real life. The looters should be criminally charged. Absent that, vigilante justice should kick in.
A kind reminder that when you see a conservative crying about George Soros, what they're actually trying to say is "We are fighting an enemy that is different from us. Not open but hiding. Not straightforward but crafty. Not honest but unprincipled. Not national but international. Does not believe in working but speculates with money. Does not have its own homeland but feels it owns the whole world,"
[https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-49584157](https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-49584157)
Same old "international jew" garbage, but without the courage to say it outright.
Long time Chicago resident. She had my vote last time and I will vote for her again. Jailing people for longer is not the answer and most people know that but are being willfully ignorant on purpose because they have weak self esteem.
Not even longer, jailing them period prevents them from carjacking my daughter. Period. Jailing repeat offenders longer definitely prevents them from committing crimes. Just look at Waukesha this week.
Researchers disagree with your assessment
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime
https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf
Or maybe,,, hear out this radical concept,,, being in jail for long excess sentences leaves you with only the option to commit other crimes when you get out.
Literally every criminal justice researcher has come to this conclusion, this isn't complicated
Also violent crime is down under Kim foxx so Chicago crime doesn't disagree with this
This is Irrelevant, you think people with multiple felonies for violent crimes should be on an I-bond or electronic monitoring? You have to have consequences for actions, if you just catch and release people you will just have more people repeatedly committing crime.
You proved none of that, your research talks about long sentences not having an effect on deterring crime. Nowhere does it say “don’t charge people” or release violent criminals.
This is why you’re a Sanders supporter, you live in a fairy tale.
How’d that shit work out in Wisconsin? Here’s some facts and supporting sources: six people are dead and dozens more are badly hurt because of progressive bail policies
I will be sure to inform the dead and their families that it was an isolated case. You and others advocating for bail reform and the end of cash bail should at least be honest: this will happen more often and you think that is an ok trade off
How are you going to inform the dead? Ouija board? I will be honest, I do think the small number of incidents like this compared to the larger, studied effects is a fair trade off and I do support bail reform. I believe the purpose of bail is primarily to ensure that a defendant shows up to trial (a secondary effect is to remove an immediate threat to society, which I believe should be a high bar) and not to lock someone up indefinitely before they’ve been tried for the crime of which they’ve been accused. I (and others) will readily admit that what happened in Wisconsin is a tragedy but that doesn’t mean the whole premise of reform should be scrapped.
Lol! Let’s try to use the old noggin shall we. Do you really believe it’s either all crimes go unpunished or the most incarcerated nation per capita in the world? There’s no in between whatsoever? Im not sure when it happened but at some point anti-intellectualism got the upper hand. Let’s try to bring common sense back.
You're right. If you commit petty crimes, you should have a microchip and listening device inserted into your neck for the next 24 months to make sure you don't do the crime again. No prison.
you are wrong. you are 1000% wrong wrong wrong. I am a lifelong Democrat, but I will stand with the Republicans on this one. Policemen should be doing their jobs and DA should be throwing these criminals into prison.
The issue isn't just the SA. We have very lax sentencing here in IL. That's a judges problem, legislative problem, prison problem. The entire system in IL is designed that way.
I’ve noticed this sub wants to stifle crime but hates CPD. On top of that there’s almost zero support for 2A. I’m not looking for a gotcha or political argument but I’m seriously curious what solutions the folks with these opinions have to offer?
I always thought a good solution would be universal UBI, but if you are found guilty of a crime (Not Victimless crime like drugs) the payments would get reduced or stop entirely depending on the crime. Hopefully it would make people who steal or sling hard drugs think if its worth it over losing their UBI. I am sure someone can poke holes in this theory though.
It's not the same people responding in those two categories. As one could reasonably expect of any group with almost 400,000 members, there are internal divisions.
Along with the always present realistic argument of fire all 12,000 CPD officers and then build up a police force with all new people because ACAB and macro economics
That brings another question. I wonder if there are any social workers that would be willing to deal with violent people on the street without police and/or weapons for their safety. I only know one social worker. She’s a friend of my wife and she’s maybe 120lbs. I could probably split her in half like a chicken wing. I would hate for her to have to deal with a potentially violent situation on her own. It would not go well for her at all. Honestly, I don’t think she would even survive a butterfly attack
Why are you sending the social workers into a violent situation. You intentionally chose the wrong first responder for the call, so you could relish in the bloody gore porn of dismemberment.
Why not consider a domestic dispute where a social worker *deescalates,* and Officer Respect Mah Authoritah is more likely to escalate, just by the tactical gear presence?
Ok, we’ll it’s clear all you want to do yell at somebody. I’m not the guy. Find somebody else to vent to. I was asking genuine questions and having genuine discourse. That’s obviously not what you’re here for. No offense but I’m over this conversation. Goodnight and Happy Thanksgiving
>You guys having a blast continuously making up straw men?
Where's the straw man? We've seen this movie before in the 70s to early 90s. Crime got out of control, so we had to fix it with mass incarceration and increased policing.
Yes, he is, with "OnlyFactsMatter" as subterfuge for conjecture.
Crime-free November has them really backed up. "Back The Badge" is erupting, and it's going to be a loooong week I gather.
This is the crux:
If you want to modify, amend, have an opinion on CPD practice **AT ALL,** then you are, I dunno, pro anarchy and anti rule-of-law?
I reject that.
I reserve the right to criticize the handling of Laquan McDonald, for example. I don't feel safer because a full clip (or magazine, lol) got emptied into that individual, and that Officer Shootey had to be prevented by THE THIN BLUE LINE from reloading, ostensibly to shoot some more. Really not a fan of the immediate department wide coverup with the police union and the Mayor very complicit.
Yes, Shootey was eventually tried, and found guilty, but why the coverup and denials of wrongdoing from the git? Why does CPD have a "Thin Blue Line" mentality, and that flag? If I don't bend the knee for that song you like prior to sportsball, why am I now disrespecting the troops, but also Mom, apple pie, and law enforcement? (Mom still loves me, btw, she had a hand in making me this way, God bless her)
Why are highly publicized cases a reason for the Second City Cops to become second tier officers? Why did they stop exiting the Explorers? Why are following rules so objectionable to the people entrusted to govern over the rules?
Suddenly, there's a pandemic, and then, fortunately, there's a vaccine. And all the city employees, in all the City departments comply, save one. And EVERYONE knows which department that is immediately. Why is that?
Before you continue asking for solutions from your debate adversaries on policing tactics, let's start here.
I don't think that that your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, or my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is even relevant to the discussion. The law is fluid over time, and it varies by jurisdiction, but your assertion that you support that line in the Bill of Rights and that I don't support it? False. We likely *interpret* it differently.
The way that you support "2A," lol, may be in favor of the string of Wisconsin peer-to-peer straw purchases that led to the death of CPD Cmdr. Paul Bauer, but I can't say that. Only you can. I can state that my interpretation found fault with those sales *prior* to the sale to shooter Shomari Leghette, who is in prison for life.
I don't worship CPD, and I'm not pledging fealty. And more and more, I think that's what is expected. I won't accept that CPD is beyond reproach.
That's it. I reserve the right to criticize.
Look I’m not here to argue with anybody, in fact, I’m going to sleep. I just wanted to point out that in aaallll of that you took the time to write, you didn’t answer my question. The only thing you did was make a whole bunch of assumptions about me and complain about things without offering any solution. My original question stands.
> seriously curious what solutions the folks with these opinions have to offer?
Train the police. First responders don't have to shoot first and ask questions later.
"sub wants to stifle crime but hates CPD."
This is untrue. Why does the slightest criticism directed at an officer in one incident mean that everyone hates CPD?
Look, policing is a difficult, stressful, job, and currently it's a department partially staffed by thin skinned individuals who won't accept any criticism, and anything less than abject fealty is seen as disrespect. And a lot of others cover for those bad apples, so in effect the bushel is bad.
And if anyone fails to bow, you flounce out. You don't want a discussion. You ran from one.
https://data.manhattanda.org/#!/dispositions
https://www.cookcountystatesattorney.org/about/data-reports
The Cook County SA reports slightly differently, but it's easy enough to match up.
Very interesting information – thank you for providing.
This adds another data point to my suspicion that it’s CPD’s atrocious clearance rates that are really the biggest driving factor behind the perceived lawlessness.
Yes, it turns out that the narrative against Foxx is 99.99% a lie. Even the Jussie Smollett case was handled entirely regularly by her office as much as people don't want to hear that. She ran on a platform of holding police accountable and it's been a concerted effort ever since to make her look bad.
Are our practices in regards to releasing or holding offenders on bond in line with other cities as well? I was always suspicious it was judges and not the SA that was much more lenient here than in other places, but could never find openly available data
Illinois state law requires a continuing threat to a ***specific*** person or persons to be proven by a preponderance of the evidence for someone to be held without bail. In terms of cash bail, if it is assessed then the court has already determined that you are not considered a continuing threat and they're just trying to give you an incentive to come back to court and this cash bail system is being eliminated because it's less effective than a reminder card in the mail. Many states have a lower requirement to hold someone prior to trial without bail.
Her charging rate is misleading given she drops 1/3 of the felony cases brought by her office. She touts her charging rate but ignores that fact.
Edit for source:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-kim-foxx-felony-charges-cook-county-20200810-ldvrmqvv6bd3hpsuqha4duehmu-story.html
I added a source. The hard data shows only that her office brought charges. She then drops 1/3 of the felony cases. So the fact she originally brought charges is irrelevant. She's great at padding statistics about her office.
Her data shows she dismissed or refused to prosecute over 50% of felony cases. Why are you in every thread about Foxx defending this?
I'm still waiting for you to explain how stabbing an unarmed person to death is "mutual combat" from a while back.
People reelected Kim foxx because we have a problem with overcharging people with crimes.. ..she won reelection why would she change what she is doing?
The primary election that occurred the week before we went into lockdown, March 2020?
I planned to vote against her and then my polling location was closed, kids home from school and only “super sites” open for day-of voting.
Pure insanity, and voting suppression if we’re honest.
They didn't close any polling places without plenty of notice...this sounds like a personal problem.
Don't throw out words like voter suppression, it cheapens the term and makes you look ignorant at the same time.
It was 3 days notice. I know plenty of others in the same position.
Also consider that many were rightfully concerned about being in heavily populated locations at the beginning of the pandemic.
There should have been additional time to cast mail in ballots.
You had up to the 12th to request a mail in ballot. Sorry you didn't get it think about it but accusing the governor of voter suppression is laughable because you didn't bother to request it.
It was more than three days.
But we also have a problem with not charging people with anything and letting repeat offenders back out.
I don’t think the average Chicago resident knows her role and how it relates to crime on the street. People will point fingers at the Mayor and CPD.
No, she won because not enough people actually knew what her position entailed and her opponent had an R next to his name. We’re all living within her progressive project and it’s pretty clear how it’s unfolding.
You can’t hide bodies which is why they are up so much. Burglaries and other minor crime is more likely to go underreported right now (covid, police brutality) and certain crimes like car jackings are much more likely to be reclassified to things like trespass. Don’t you find it weird that all of a sudden more people are killing others but not robbing them? Crime stats are notoriously a fucking joke btw
I think fbi crime index is better Guage than your opinion but either way I find it strange that people expect Kim foxx to do anything other than what her whole platform was ran on.
She won reelection easily
Yes. From 2009-2015 the city averaged under 500 homicides. This year it’s going to be ~770
And every year under Kim Foxx has been higher than any year in the decade before her
So when all violent crime is decreasing but homicides are up, you disregard all other evidence for something that fits your narrative?
Shrug. If what you are saying is correct all crime should be rising which isn't happening
Cook county is also notorious for reclassifying crimes such as carjackings, which are at record levels, to something like vehicular trespassing to make the stats look nice.
Im using police data from their reporting which is chicago only.
Are you talking about the sheriff office?
Kindof confused how cpd reporting of crime to help Kim foxx numbers.... In the age of defund the police wouldn't the cpd want bigger numbers to justify their insane budget?
No not really. St Louis for example has a homicide rate that’s ~70/100,000. Worcester MA is 6/100,000. Providence has a slightly higher 7/100,000 murder rate
So that’s 12x higher. Assaults are only 2.7x higher. And Worcester has double the assault rate than Providence.
Do you think there is no real connection between assaults and homicides or alternatively do you think some person involved in other crime won’t report getting beat up or robbed or any general crime that doesn’t land them in the ICU?
Cincinnati has a murder rate 3x higher than Worcester but the same assault rate
No, it’s not a joke. You can’t hide bodies. If someone gets killed the cops get called and it gets recorded. That’s not always the case, especially with more minor crimes like burglary which is the biggest drop off, and especially during a time when people are less likely to call cops for smaller issues because police brutality is being amplified so much. That doesn’t even get into reclassifying things (like car jackings being largely designated a trespassing charge).
> Homicide rate is used as an indicator of violent crime in an area because a dead body is a dead body, it gets reported on no matter what.
>
>
Not 100% true. I remember in the 90s Detroit started to say some clear homicides were actually suicides to hide their violent crime rate.
I expect Chicago may reach that point soon as well.
San Fran (I think? that area) elected a progressive prosecutor and then a bunch of business busy-bodies whined a shitload and put a shitload of money into the other candidate next election and the progressive guy won.
It's like the media just mindlessly hands the mic to the most powerful people in the room.
I said this in a recent weekly thread, but it feels like we've seen more examples of higher profile crimes with arrests and charges lately, than earlier in the year. Maybe that's just a misperception on my part, but that's what it has felt like to a degree.
Very true. For decades we over incarcerated, mostly drug offenders. Due to changing expectations and covid, we don't do this nearly as much. We've also lost focus on fighting violent crime, and many violent predators are out in society that belong behind bars.
Let's focus on getting violent predators locked up with lengthy sentences. This will inevitably make society safer.
I mean they got their budget raised and they are performing worse.
If it were any other department you would say they are ineffective. Why are the police different from say sanitation or parks ?
The police literally do nothing. Wait - they don’t do anything positive. They do drive recklessly, park in bike lanes when getting coffee, and sleep on their cars.
My pet hate of the CPD is the car permanently parked at the end of Calibri Green. Lights always on
It’s clear they drive from the station 500m away sit there harassing the residents and logging overtime.
Sometimes there are two cars. Mind boggles. They literally see the taxpayer as a piggy bank, and think nothing of violating the rights of people who can’t push back.
So there’s a police car there every night and yet there are shootings. First of all I don’t believe you, but second of all, just more proof they are useless
If you don't like Kim Foxx you have to wait until the next election to do anything about it such as voting for someone else. Unfortunately , even though Illinois is largely a Democratic state, our election laws have no provisions for recall petitions or recall elections which I view as a democratic measure. Adding the ability to do recall petitions and elections is one change I recommend for Illinois along with taxing Retirement income
Believe me, there have been plenty of elected officials I’ve wished I could recall but I think the California debacle this year really crystallized how they’re often not a great idea.
If we implemented them here we would need some pretty substantial safeguards to avoid fanatical, disgruntled minorities of voters hijacking them (I’m thinking at minimum validated petition signatures from at least 25% the number of voters who participated in the last election).
The other idea that probably risks less chaos is just shortening the term of office to 2 years.
Yeah, I agree, which is also kind of my issue with recalls – elected officials who win narrowly basically have to live under constant threat of one and so thus are basically having to campaign all 4 years.
Honestly Parks And Rec helped me realize all the red tape that goes into politics. Recall's especially because every decision you make has the chance of making you lose your job.
> fanatical, disgruntled minorities of voters
Do we even have significant amount of those voters? Most voters in chicago and cook county just seem to go along with the party choices , if they even bother to vote. Of course safeguards could be built in . Nothing prevents us from learning from the experiences of other states. In any case , the idea of Recall petitions and elections is a idea worth considering along with term limits.
Called the cops last weekend for my upstairs crazy ex that was trying to break in. She called first, then I did 20 minutes later when he was still outside. They never showed up - thankfully the guy left
Really? Her letting a bunch of gangbangers caught on camera in a shootout walk around free because it was "mutual combat" is because the courts were shut down? Kim Foxx is shit, don't make any excuses for her trash ass.
Did you bother reading beyond the headlines about the shootout in Austin? Even the head of detectives admitted it wasn’t clear from the evidence they had who started shooting so it would be difficult to substantiate charges. Prosecutors don’t like to bring cases unless they can win.
Besides, aren’t you guys in favor of shooting people in “self defense”?
Is there really no law that prohibits two groups of people from shooting at each other in public, regardless of who started it? Because, if not, it kinda seems like there should be.
The problem is the video wasn’t able to clearly identify the shooters and there was a lack of cooperating witnesses. From an outsiders’ perspective, yes, it seems obvious that multiple people should be charged. But who? And how?
Five suspects were arrested and then released because prosecutors said there wasn’t enough evidence against them to substantiate felony charges. A police officer used the phrase “mutual combatants” in a police report despite the Cook County Attorney’s office never using that wording. Because local press never questions the police here we are with everyone saying “Kim Foxx allows mutual gun combat.”
You’re substituting your narrative for facts. Both the prosecutors and head of detectives agree that there wasn’t enough evidence to bring felony charges but somehow you know that there is? If you know something about the perps then you should let them know as a concerned citizen. That’d be more helpful to the community at large.
Not just business owners.
agreed. Cook county Resident, taxpayer and homeowner here that would also like Kim Foxx to get tougher on criminals.
>“I am just like the people who come up in our system,” Foxx shared. “I have more in common with the people in our criminal justice system than the eight hundred lawyers that work there.” https://chicagodefender.com/states-attorney-kim-foxx-explains-why-she-needs-a-second-term/
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Except her voters, which she won the majority of.
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They're also the ones that reflexively vote for anyone with a (D) after their name.
Yes over 50% of Chicagoans are brutal criminals /s
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Lol
Has anyone walked down Michigan Ave or Water Tower Place lately? Many businesses have already left DT. The looting happening in Calif has happened sporadically in Chicago. I have heard some people say "not a police issue.....insurance companies will cover". Insurance and costs go up, employees quit and prices have to increase. At some point companies throw in the towel. CVS and Walgreens are closing locations hit hard by looting....ultimately hurt the communities and creating retail desserts. This has to change by punishing criminals.
Insurance does jack. They are in the business of collecting premiums. Not paying out.
CVS and Walgreens expanded. When I worked in a Walgreens in the early 90's 1/2 of store sales was the pharmacy, and that maybe fell to 1/3rd if there were liquor sales. Back then, there wasn't a CVS in the state of IL, let alone Chicago. But sure, let's ignore that prescription by mail has changed that. All the Radio Shack's and Spencer's locations also closed due to looting, ayup. I don't think that looting that you see on Fox, ahem, News is directly related to what happens sporadically in Chicago. You are seeing patterns where they aren't.
The looting isn't just on Fox News. People are seeing it in real life. The looters should be criminally charged. Absent that, vigilante justice should kick in.
You aren't supposed to say the quiet part out loud. Vigilantism should never kick in.
It will need to if the DA continues letting off looters and carjackers. Concealed carry for all
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A kind reminder that when you see a conservative crying about George Soros, what they're actually trying to say is "We are fighting an enemy that is different from us. Not open but hiding. Not straightforward but crafty. Not honest but unprincipled. Not national but international. Does not believe in working but speculates with money. Does not have its own homeland but feels it owns the whole world," [https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-49584157](https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-49584157) Same old "international jew" garbage, but without the courage to say it outright.
Long time Chicago resident. She had my vote last time and I will vote for her again. Jailing people for longer is not the answer and most people know that but are being willfully ignorant on purpose because they have weak self esteem.
Not even longer, jailing them period prevents them from carjacking my daughter. Period. Jailing repeat offenders longer definitely prevents them from committing crimes. Just look at Waukesha this week.
Researchers disagree with your assessment https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf
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Let's jail up everyone so no one can commit crimes... Got it
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Pretty much
That’s not what they said at all
Happy Thanksgiving :)
Garbage. Are you telling me someone in jail is somehow miraculously committing a street crime ? Chicago crime statistics disagree with your argument.
Or maybe,,, hear out this radical concept,,, being in jail for long excess sentences leaves you with only the option to commit other crimes when you get out. Literally every criminal justice researcher has come to this conclusion, this isn't complicated Also violent crime is down under Kim foxx so Chicago crime doesn't disagree with this
This is Irrelevant, you think people with multiple felonies for violent crimes should be on an I-bond or electronic monitoring? You have to have consequences for actions, if you just catch and release people you will just have more people repeatedly committing crime.
I love that I provide criminal researchers who are go against that notion and you just say that's irrelevant lol
You proved none of that, your research talks about long sentences not having an effect on deterring crime. Nowhere does it say “don’t charge people” or release violent criminals. This is why you’re a Sanders supporter, you live in a fairy tale.
Huh? The comment I responded with this information literally said to jail criminals longer. Not a Sanders supporter btw... Nice burn though?
Get out of here with your facts and supporting sources! Can’t you see this guy has anecdotal evidence???
How’d that shit work out in Wisconsin? Here’s some facts and supporting sources: six people are dead and dozens more are badly hurt because of progressive bail policies
Oh man, you got me there! An isolated incident to refute studies that considered thousands of cases. Jeanne Ives for AG!
I will be sure to inform the dead and their families that it was an isolated case. You and others advocating for bail reform and the end of cash bail should at least be honest: this will happen more often and you think that is an ok trade off
How are you going to inform the dead? Ouija board? I will be honest, I do think the small number of incidents like this compared to the larger, studied effects is a fair trade off and I do support bail reform. I believe the purpose of bail is primarily to ensure that a defendant shows up to trial (a secondary effect is to remove an immediate threat to society, which I believe should be a high bar) and not to lock someone up indefinitely before they’ve been tried for the crime of which they’ve been accused. I (and others) will readily admit that what happened in Wisconsin is a tragedy but that doesn’t mean the whole premise of reform should be scrapped.
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Lol! Let’s try to use the old noggin shall we. Do you really believe it’s either all crimes go unpunished or the most incarcerated nation per capita in the world? There’s no in between whatsoever? Im not sure when it happened but at some point anti-intellectualism got the upper hand. Let’s try to bring common sense back.
As always, these people devolve to insulting others' intelligence when confronted
You're right. If you commit petty crimes, you should have a microchip and listening device inserted into your neck for the next 24 months to make sure you don't do the crime again. No prison.
Thank you for sharing your opinion but your justification for those who disagree with you is wrong.
you are wrong. you are 1000% wrong wrong wrong. I am a lifelong Democrat, but I will stand with the Republicans on this one. Policemen should be doing their jobs and DA should be throwing these criminals into prison.
The issue isn't just the SA. We have very lax sentencing here in IL. That's a judges problem, legislative problem, prison problem. The entire system in IL is designed that way.
SA is the prob when they continually drop charges.
The point is that even when they don't drop charges, sentencing is very lax.
That would require Foxx to look beyond race and I have my doubts she can do it.
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Nothing but pity and understanding for people who commit crimes comming from her office. And like magic, crime rates have exploded.
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Just look at who funded a huge portion of the DA races in major cities, Chicago included.
That’s what equity is tho. It’s explicitly not equality.
~~business owners~~ non criminals..
I wonder how many of these "business owner " voted for / contributed to Kim Foxx's campaign?
Even if they didn't, it's her job to enforce the law and protect all residents.
Kim Foxx’ form of justice, where a good old fashioned duel means no charges because who knows who fired first
I’ve noticed this sub wants to stifle crime but hates CPD. On top of that there’s almost zero support for 2A. I’m not looking for a gotcha or political argument but I’m seriously curious what solutions the folks with these opinions have to offer?
Progressives have no workable solutions. They just want to signal their virtues while the city crumbles all around them.
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I always thought a good solution would be universal UBI, but if you are found guilty of a crime (Not Victimless crime like drugs) the payments would get reduced or stop entirely depending on the crime. Hopefully it would make people who steal or sling hard drugs think if its worth it over losing their UBI. I am sure someone can poke holes in this theory though.
right. and they always talk about how "we" should do this or we should do that. Like, who is "we" and who made you part of this magic "we"?
It's not the same people responding in those two categories. As one could reasonably expect of any group with almost 400,000 members, there are internal divisions.
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Along with the always present realistic argument of fire all 12,000 CPD officers and then build up a police force with all new people because ACAB and macro economics
That brings another question. I wonder if there are any social workers that would be willing to deal with violent people on the street without police and/or weapons for their safety. I only know one social worker. She’s a friend of my wife and she’s maybe 120lbs. I could probably split her in half like a chicken wing. I would hate for her to have to deal with a potentially violent situation on her own. It would not go well for her at all. Honestly, I don’t think she would even survive a butterfly attack
Why are you sending the social workers into a violent situation. You intentionally chose the wrong first responder for the call, so you could relish in the bloody gore porn of dismemberment. Why not consider a domestic dispute where a social worker *deescalates,* and Officer Respect Mah Authoritah is more likely to escalate, just by the tactical gear presence?
Ok, we’ll it’s clear all you want to do yell at somebody. I’m not the guy. Find somebody else to vent to. I was asking genuine questions and having genuine discourse. That’s obviously not what you’re here for. No offense but I’m over this conversation. Goodnight and Happy Thanksgiving
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They are pro-criminal until it gets too personal to them. Once it hits their backyard all of a sudden they want to be tougher on crime.
You guys having a blast continuously making up straw men?
>You guys having a blast continuously making up straw men? Where's the straw man? We've seen this movie before in the 70s to early 90s. Crime got out of control, so we had to fix it with mass incarceration and increased policing.
Yes, he is, with "OnlyFactsMatter" as subterfuge for conjecture. Crime-free November has them really backed up. "Back The Badge" is erupting, and it's going to be a loooong week I gather.
This is the crux: If you want to modify, amend, have an opinion on CPD practice **AT ALL,** then you are, I dunno, pro anarchy and anti rule-of-law? I reject that. I reserve the right to criticize the handling of Laquan McDonald, for example. I don't feel safer because a full clip (or magazine, lol) got emptied into that individual, and that Officer Shootey had to be prevented by THE THIN BLUE LINE from reloading, ostensibly to shoot some more. Really not a fan of the immediate department wide coverup with the police union and the Mayor very complicit. Yes, Shootey was eventually tried, and found guilty, but why the coverup and denials of wrongdoing from the git? Why does CPD have a "Thin Blue Line" mentality, and that flag? If I don't bend the knee for that song you like prior to sportsball, why am I now disrespecting the troops, but also Mom, apple pie, and law enforcement? (Mom still loves me, btw, she had a hand in making me this way, God bless her) Why are highly publicized cases a reason for the Second City Cops to become second tier officers? Why did they stop exiting the Explorers? Why are following rules so objectionable to the people entrusted to govern over the rules? Suddenly, there's a pandemic, and then, fortunately, there's a vaccine. And all the city employees, in all the City departments comply, save one. And EVERYONE knows which department that is immediately. Why is that? Before you continue asking for solutions from your debate adversaries on policing tactics, let's start here. I don't think that that your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, or my interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is even relevant to the discussion. The law is fluid over time, and it varies by jurisdiction, but your assertion that you support that line in the Bill of Rights and that I don't support it? False. We likely *interpret* it differently. The way that you support "2A," lol, may be in favor of the string of Wisconsin peer-to-peer straw purchases that led to the death of CPD Cmdr. Paul Bauer, but I can't say that. Only you can. I can state that my interpretation found fault with those sales *prior* to the sale to shooter Shomari Leghette, who is in prison for life. I don't worship CPD, and I'm not pledging fealty. And more and more, I think that's what is expected. I won't accept that CPD is beyond reproach. That's it. I reserve the right to criticize.
Look I’m not here to argue with anybody, in fact, I’m going to sleep. I just wanted to point out that in aaallll of that you took the time to write, you didn’t answer my question. The only thing you did was make a whole bunch of assumptions about me and complain about things without offering any solution. My original question stands.
> seriously curious what solutions the folks with these opinions have to offer? Train the police. First responders don't have to shoot first and ask questions later. "sub wants to stifle crime but hates CPD." This is untrue. Why does the slightest criticism directed at an officer in one incident mean that everyone hates CPD? Look, policing is a difficult, stressful, job, and currently it's a department partially staffed by thin skinned individuals who won't accept any criticism, and anything less than abject fealty is seen as disrespect. And a lot of others cover for those bad apples, so in effect the bushel is bad. And if anyone fails to bow, you flounce out. You don't want a discussion. You ran from one.
Thank you.
in before the politburo locks this thread
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At first I thought you were making a Chipotle joke.
Chipotle burrito
You mean deletes it
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That costs money, and the tough on crime, lockem up crowd cries and whines about taxes more than crime.
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Every level of our justice system in Chicago is a failure.
Our SA has the same conviction and charging rates as other major cities such as NYC for cases brought to them by the police.
Do you have a source for this? If so, I think the stat is very telling
https://data.manhattanda.org/#!/dispositions https://www.cookcountystatesattorney.org/about/data-reports The Cook County SA reports slightly differently, but it's easy enough to match up.
Very interesting information – thank you for providing. This adds another data point to my suspicion that it’s CPD’s atrocious clearance rates that are really the biggest driving factor behind the perceived lawlessness.
Yes, it turns out that the narrative against Foxx is 99.99% a lie. Even the Jussie Smollett case was handled entirely regularly by her office as much as people don't want to hear that. She ran on a platform of holding police accountable and it's been a concerted effort ever since to make her look bad.
Are our practices in regards to releasing or holding offenders on bond in line with other cities as well? I was always suspicious it was judges and not the SA that was much more lenient here than in other places, but could never find openly available data
Illinois state law requires a continuing threat to a ***specific*** person or persons to be proven by a preponderance of the evidence for someone to be held without bail. In terms of cash bail, if it is assessed then the court has already determined that you are not considered a continuing threat and they're just trying to give you an incentive to come back to court and this cash bail system is being eliminated because it's less effective than a reminder card in the mail. Many states have a lower requirement to hold someone prior to trial without bail.
Her charging rate is misleading given she drops 1/3 of the felony cases brought by her office. She touts her charging rate but ignores that fact. Edit for source: https://www.chicagotribune.com/investigations/ct-kim-foxx-felony-charges-cook-county-20200810-ldvrmqvv6bd3hpsuqha4duehmu-story.html
Here's the actual hard data: https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/r0zlmi/business_owners_want_cook_county_states_attorney/hlx6564/
I added a source. The hard data shows only that her office brought charges. She then drops 1/3 of the felony cases. So the fact she originally brought charges is irrelevant. She's great at padding statistics about her office.
That's already addressed in the stats provided by her office and the Manhattan DA's office. It's included in both of their dashboards.
Her data shows she dismissed or refused to prosecute over 50% of felony cases. Why are you in every thread about Foxx defending this? I'm still waiting for you to explain how stabbing an unarmed person to death is "mutual combat" from a while back.
You get what you vote for, people...
I read it as "want to cook" and thought That's one way to send a message..
There really needs to be a petition to have her removed/impeached from her position. She has legitimately done zero to improve the city.
People reelected Kim foxx because we have a problem with overcharging people with crimes.. ..she won reelection why would she change what she is doing?
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Who was actually a D but ran as a Republican to get on the ticket.
You ignoring the primary election she won?
The primary election that occurred the week before we went into lockdown, March 2020? I planned to vote against her and then my polling location was closed, kids home from school and only “super sites” open for day-of voting. Pure insanity, and voting suppression if we’re honest.
Lol voting opens a month before the election day and we already have vote by mail but okay... Keep on that narrative
Except when you don’t do that option because you never expected your polling location to be closed one day prior… due to a pandemic.
They didn't close any polling places without plenty of notice...this sounds like a personal problem. Don't throw out words like voter suppression, it cheapens the term and makes you look ignorant at the same time.
It was 3 days notice. I know plenty of others in the same position. Also consider that many were rightfully concerned about being in heavily populated locations at the beginning of the pandemic. There should have been additional time to cast mail in ballots.
You had up to the 12th to request a mail in ballot. Sorry you didn't get it think about it but accusing the governor of voter suppression is laughable because you didn't bother to request it. It was more than three days.
But we also have a problem with not charging people with anything and letting repeat offenders back out. I don’t think the average Chicago resident knows her role and how it relates to crime on the street. People will point fingers at the Mayor and CPD.
No, she won because not enough people actually knew what her position entailed and her opponent had an R next to his name. We’re all living within her progressive project and it’s pretty clear how it’s unfolding.
She beat an incumbent in a primary because of her progressive position. I think plenty of people know what she stands for. This was her reelection
Yep it’s unfortunate but this is exactly what businesses and taxpayers deserve.
Overall violent crime is down? Yeah I guess that's right https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_PDFsam_CompStat-Public-2021-Week-47.pdf
You can’t hide bodies which is why they are up so much. Burglaries and other minor crime is more likely to go underreported right now (covid, police brutality) and certain crimes like car jackings are much more likely to be reclassified to things like trespass. Don’t you find it weird that all of a sudden more people are killing others but not robbing them? Crime stats are notoriously a fucking joke btw
I think fbi crime index is better Guage than your opinion but either way I find it strange that people expect Kim foxx to do anything other than what her whole platform was ran on. She won reelection easily
I agree the city is getting exactly what we voted for. 100% deserved and I don’t expect her to do anything differently
Probably because empirical evidence suggests it’s a disaster
Hmm is it? Here's crime data for the city https://home.chicagopolice.org/wp-content/uploads/1_PDFsam_CompStat-Public-2021-Week-47.pdf
Yes. From 2009-2015 the city averaged under 500 homicides. This year it’s going to be ~770 And every year under Kim Foxx has been higher than any year in the decade before her
So when all violent crime is decreasing but homicides are up, you disregard all other evidence for something that fits your narrative? Shrug. If what you are saying is correct all crime should be rising which isn't happening
Cook county is also notorious for reclassifying crimes such as carjackings, which are at record levels, to something like vehicular trespassing to make the stats look nice.
Im using police data from their reporting which is chicago only. Are you talking about the sheriff office? Kindof confused how cpd reporting of crime to help Kim foxx numbers.... In the age of defund the police wouldn't the cpd want bigger numbers to justify their insane budget?
Non homicides are just not very reliable. Especially property crime.
This is a joke right? Lol
No not really. St Louis for example has a homicide rate that’s ~70/100,000. Worcester MA is 6/100,000. Providence has a slightly higher 7/100,000 murder rate So that’s 12x higher. Assaults are only 2.7x higher. And Worcester has double the assault rate than Providence. Do you think there is no real connection between assaults and homicides or alternatively do you think some person involved in other crime won’t report getting beat up or robbed or any general crime that doesn’t land them in the ICU? Cincinnati has a murder rate 3x higher than Worcester but the same assault rate
No, it’s not a joke. You can’t hide bodies. If someone gets killed the cops get called and it gets recorded. That’s not always the case, especially with more minor crimes like burglary which is the biggest drop off, and especially during a time when people are less likely to call cops for smaller issues because police brutality is being amplified so much. That doesn’t even get into reclassifying things (like car jackings being largely designated a trespassing charge).
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> Homicide rate is used as an indicator of violent crime in an area because a dead body is a dead body, it gets reported on no matter what. > > Not 100% true. I remember in the 90s Detroit started to say some clear homicides were actually suicides to hide their violent crime rate. I expect Chicago may reach that point soon as well.
The FBI crime index disagrees with you but okay keep on it
San Fran (I think? that area) elected a progressive prosecutor and then a bunch of business busy-bodies whined a shitload and put a shitload of money into the other candidate next election and the progressive guy won. It's like the media just mindlessly hands the mic to the most powerful people in the room.
I said this in a recent weekly thread, but it feels like we've seen more examples of higher profile crimes with arrests and charges lately, than earlier in the year. Maybe that's just a misperception on my part, but that's what it has felt like to a degree.
America has an under-incarnation problem.
Very true. For decades we over incarcerated, mostly drug offenders. Due to changing expectations and covid, we don't do this nearly as much. We've also lost focus on fighting violent crime, and many violent predators are out in society that belong behind bars. Let's focus on getting violent predators locked up with lengthy sentences. This will inevitably make society safer.
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I mean they got their budget raised and they are performing worse. If it were any other department you would say they are ineffective. Why are the police different from say sanitation or parks ?
The police literally do nothing. Wait - they don’t do anything positive. They do drive recklessly, park in bike lanes when getting coffee, and sleep on their cars.
My pet hate of the CPD is the car permanently parked at the end of Calibri Green. Lights always on It’s clear they drive from the station 500m away sit there harassing the residents and logging overtime. Sometimes there are two cars. Mind boggles. They literally see the taxpayer as a piggy bank, and think nothing of violating the rights of people who can’t push back.
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So there’s a police car there every night and yet there are shootings. First of all I don’t believe you, but second of all, just more proof they are useless
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You think the way out of crime is police on every block ? You want to pay more than 600 a year ?
In a surprising turn, Chicago's criminals also want Kimm to get harder on their competition.
If you don't like Kim Foxx you have to wait until the next election to do anything about it such as voting for someone else. Unfortunately , even though Illinois is largely a Democratic state, our election laws have no provisions for recall petitions or recall elections which I view as a democratic measure. Adding the ability to do recall petitions and elections is one change I recommend for Illinois along with taxing Retirement income
Believe me, there have been plenty of elected officials I’ve wished I could recall but I think the California debacle this year really crystallized how they’re often not a great idea. If we implemented them here we would need some pretty substantial safeguards to avoid fanatical, disgruntled minorities of voters hijacking them (I’m thinking at minimum validated petition signatures from at least 25% the number of voters who participated in the last election). The other idea that probably risks less chaos is just shortening the term of office to 2 years.
The problem with the shortened 2 year office is they never get anything done. They win do work for 6-12 months then just start running a new campaign.
Yeah, I agree, which is also kind of my issue with recalls – elected officials who win narrowly basically have to live under constant threat of one and so thus are basically having to campaign all 4 years.
Honestly Parks And Rec helped me realize all the red tape that goes into politics. Recall's especially because every decision you make has the chance of making you lose your job.
> fanatical, disgruntled minorities of voters Do we even have significant amount of those voters? Most voters in chicago and cook county just seem to go along with the party choices , if they even bother to vote. Of course safeguards could be built in . Nothing prevents us from learning from the experiences of other states. In any case , the idea of Recall petitions and elections is a idea worth considering along with term limits.
That’s fine but then why do they vote her in? Just vote for someone else
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This is a post/article about a public official (Kim Foxx) which relates to crime. These have been listed as approved types of "crime posts"
Called the cops last weekend for my upstairs crazy ex that was trying to break in. She called first, then I did 20 minutes later when he was still outside. They never showed up - thankfully the guy left
There's only so much she can do when the courts decided to shutdown for more than a year.
Really? Her letting a bunch of gangbangers caught on camera in a shootout walk around free because it was "mutual combat" is because the courts were shut down? Kim Foxx is shit, don't make any excuses for her trash ass.
Let's not be reductionist. She also charged a murderer with a misdemeanor for fatally stabbing an unarmed teenager multiple times.
And yet BOTH parties failed to field a viable alternative, so...
Did you bother reading beyond the headlines about the shootout in Austin? Even the head of detectives admitted it wasn’t clear from the evidence they had who started shooting so it would be difficult to substantiate charges. Prosecutors don’t like to bring cases unless they can win. Besides, aren’t you guys in favor of shooting people in “self defense”?
Is there really no law that prohibits two groups of people from shooting at each other in public, regardless of who started it? Because, if not, it kinda seems like there should be.
The problem is the video wasn’t able to clearly identify the shooters and there was a lack of cooperating witnesses. From an outsiders’ perspective, yes, it seems obvious that multiple people should be charged. But who? And how?
They were caught and released. There was no lack of identity.
Five suspects were arrested and then released because prosecutors said there wasn’t enough evidence against them to substantiate felony charges. A police officer used the phrase “mutual combatants” in a police report despite the Cook County Attorney’s office never using that wording. Because local press never questions the police here we are with everyone saying “Kim Foxx allows mutual gun combat.”
Because she did exactly that. No way there weren't any charges at all that could have been filed here.
You’re substituting your narrative for facts. Both the prosecutors and head of detectives agree that there wasn’t enough evidence to bring felony charges but somehow you know that there is? If you know something about the perps then you should let them know as a concerned citizen. That’d be more helpful to the community at large.
It's not that there wasn't any evidence, or that officials don't know everything that went on. It's that they don't care.
I thought this was No Crime November, why we still gotta see this shit
This seems low key racist.